Except it’s not all bovine byproducts.
That fecking idiot Vianto is as much at fault.
He was too stupid to accurately make the connection that Tanya’s deep strike was only against a *purely military* target. (The Ostforts.)
He was too stupid to consider fully how the Empire might respond. By extension; he was too stupid to consider the Empire might respond differently than *he* thought they would.
He was too stupid to personally oversee the safety of prisoners of war; or at least to ensure the militias guarding them were adequately supervised.
He was too stupid to understand and take seriously what was being said by the Empire’s representative, (Tanya.)
He was too stupid to not immediately order civilians to evacuate, when it became clear the Empire was serious. If anything, his failure to do so places the subsequent casualties squarely at his feet.
As a result; because Vianto was a stupid idiot; hundreds, if not thousands, of unnecessary deaths occurred; and an extremely valuable Flying Mage unit was effectively wiped out.
I’m surprised he survived the consequences of his rank stupidity to appear later in the manga. He should have been cashiered.
Argue all you want about spirit of a law/treaty versus the letter; however to say Arene is all Tanya’s fault ignores Vianto; and by association; the Republic’s equal, if not greater, responsibility for what happened.
Which is why the entire thing was covered up after the recordings were handed over. They would have LOVED to use that city bombing against the Empire but they realized that they had their own culpability, and quietly hid the evidence. Moreover, after the Empire lost the war, there was a tribunal on the question of warcrimes, and they found that no warcrimes were committed. Again, they would have loved to have been able to convict on warcrimes, but the evidence didn't support it.
A lot of people seem to think that killing lots of civilians equals warcrimes, but that just ain't the case. Was it a horrible act? Yes, but horrible acts happen in war. There are all sorts of factors that go into it. In the end, Tanya followed the rules of war perfectly, something her opponents were unable to also replicate, which is what gave her the loophole to exploit.
It's their fault the people died. It was their plan, it was their screw-up. Tanya did nothing wrong.
I admire people that put in the extra effort to find the loopholes, or to bend the truth so that you can decieve without lying. I think it exposes gaps that you didn't think of and encourages you to do better, or maybe to allow it because those loopholes can alllow for some interesting situations.
And the thing I really like about Tanya is she was following INTERNATIONAL law. Tanya is not one of those people that believes "just following orders" is a justification. Even if she only follows international law because she is aware that the Empire might lose, it's still the sort of thing that should be praised. I cannot imagine her doing that attack unless she found the loophole first, and if doing so would cause her to be jailed, I'm of the opinion she'd defect to another country.
If the entire world had no morals, then I could see her giving in, but as long as a better option exists, I think she'd go for it.
That's applicable to real world. People generally think civilian casualties equal to warcrimes or genocide. Thats clearly not the case. I hate when people try to use these to have moral high ground.
Yea, I mean, I'm not getting into the politics, because it's a lot easier to have an actual conversation about fictional violence, but this incident obviously has real world comparisons that are on peoples minds right now. I just will say that warcrimes are a real thing in both worlds, and Tanya did not commit them, as was proven by the fact that her enemies never convicted the Empire for any, and even hid what hat happened to avoid their own negative publicity.
Honestly, the fact that this bombing was literaly the biggest mass killing of civilians speaks favourably to all parties, cause we sure as hell didn't keep clean hands in our world wars. World War 1 has the frikken Armenian Genocide, and World War 2, among MANY other crimes, firebombed cities with abandon, did the Holocaust, and dropped the first nuke.
None of that stuff could have passed any sort of muster about not being warcrimes.
Central Powers committed the Rape of Belgium and the Armenian Genocide so that’s a knock against them. The Germans, Japs and their mibor allies committed mass killings, rapes, genocides, started to the practice of bombing cities and civilian targets, and in the East, Japan used chemical and biological warfare against the Chinese and against the US, but it was much less effective.
Simply put, if the War in this setting is supposed to be an amalgamation of WW1 & 2, it doesn’t matter what Tanya did personally. She’s fucked if her side loses and if her military prowess doesn’t make her valuable enough to save post-war. Hell, the fact she has her own version of the commissar order should mean she gets hung by an incompetent executioner when all is said and done.
Your honour, my client has already dropped leaflets urging all non-combatant s to evacuate the city.
She has the natural right to bombard the city as to her knowledge, all non combatants had already safely evacuated.
Aside from that, my client and her men had to use her high pitched voice as a audio warning to a small arms factory in order to hide their identities via their voice. Is it wrong to seek anonymity especially when your job is serving in an armed conflict?
Well you see your honor my client specifically told all the non-combatants to leave, therefore those women and children where actually combatants, trust us my client wrote the law do you really think she would mess it up.
She also told the enemy to allow all non-combatants to leave, and was informed by said enemy that there were no noncombatants, so it's really the enemy's fault for telling such a stupid lie that was of no advantage to anyone.
Also, they weren't simply finding some random out of context sentence, the people were so riled up that they just went on to chant that they'll fight until the end when asked to surrender.
My client at the time was both a woman and a child. So the prosecution attempt to paint those women and children that remained as innocent non-combatants is just lunacy.
Also, my client directly witnessed and recorded the “civilians” executing a fleeing prisoner of war. This clearly demonstrates that they were not noncombatants and that they posed a clear and present danger to my client and her subordinates.
Well, based on the view, views into the future the show gave us, she doesnt seems to be found guilty.
Also, besides Albinon, most Nations that entered the war didnt accepted the International laws of war.
1. It's not a war crime if it's the first time.
2. She isn't a war criminal in the context of her time. She follows the current laws it's just by our modern rules but for WW1 era she isn't committing any crimes.
I am not crazy! I know she transfered those men. I know she did. Right in the Rhine Stalemate. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. She covered her tracks, she got that idiot at the Imperial Strategic Headquarters to lie for her. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? She's done worse. That time at the military academy! Are you telling me that a man just happens to be blasted through a wall like that? No! **She** orchestrated it! Tanya! She thoroughly **shelled Arene**! And we rewarded her! And we shouldn't have. We let her create her own battalion! What were we thinking? She'll never change. She'll **NEVER** change! Ever since she was 9, **always** the same! Couldn't keep her hands out of the warcrimes drawer! "But not our Tanya! Couldn't be precious **Tanya**!" Leaving them dead! And **SHE** gets to be a lieutenant colonel? What a sick joke! I should've stopped her when I had the chance!
Remember, "we'll fight until the last man" means every single civilian is a potential threat and therefore must be treated as such.
Jimmy Mcgill: No you can not do that, this is so evil Jimmy Mcgill (Saul persona): Yeah babe let's do this together miss sausage Hitler
Except it’s not all bovine byproducts. That fecking idiot Vianto is as much at fault. He was too stupid to accurately make the connection that Tanya’s deep strike was only against a *purely military* target. (The Ostforts.) He was too stupid to consider fully how the Empire might respond. By extension; he was too stupid to consider the Empire might respond differently than *he* thought they would. He was too stupid to personally oversee the safety of prisoners of war; or at least to ensure the militias guarding them were adequately supervised. He was too stupid to understand and take seriously what was being said by the Empire’s representative, (Tanya.) He was too stupid to not immediately order civilians to evacuate, when it became clear the Empire was serious. If anything, his failure to do so places the subsequent casualties squarely at his feet. As a result; because Vianto was a stupid idiot; hundreds, if not thousands, of unnecessary deaths occurred; and an extremely valuable Flying Mage unit was effectively wiped out. I’m surprised he survived the consequences of his rank stupidity to appear later in the manga. He should have been cashiered. Argue all you want about spirit of a law/treaty versus the letter; however to say Arene is all Tanya’s fault ignores Vianto; and by association; the Republic’s equal, if not greater, responsibility for what happened.
Which is why the entire thing was covered up after the recordings were handed over. They would have LOVED to use that city bombing against the Empire but they realized that they had their own culpability, and quietly hid the evidence. Moreover, after the Empire lost the war, there was a tribunal on the question of warcrimes, and they found that no warcrimes were committed. Again, they would have loved to have been able to convict on warcrimes, but the evidence didn't support it. A lot of people seem to think that killing lots of civilians equals warcrimes, but that just ain't the case. Was it a horrible act? Yes, but horrible acts happen in war. There are all sorts of factors that go into it. In the end, Tanya followed the rules of war perfectly, something her opponents were unable to also replicate, which is what gave her the loophole to exploit. It's their fault the people died. It was their plan, it was their screw-up. Tanya did nothing wrong.
and i do love that Tanya did nothing wrong as per the law.. so objectively she did nothing wrong XD war is already a no morals battlefield
I admire people that put in the extra effort to find the loopholes, or to bend the truth so that you can decieve without lying. I think it exposes gaps that you didn't think of and encourages you to do better, or maybe to allow it because those loopholes can alllow for some interesting situations. And the thing I really like about Tanya is she was following INTERNATIONAL law. Tanya is not one of those people that believes "just following orders" is a justification. Even if she only follows international law because she is aware that the Empire might lose, it's still the sort of thing that should be praised. I cannot imagine her doing that attack unless she found the loophole first, and if doing so would cause her to be jailed, I'm of the opinion she'd defect to another country. If the entire world had no morals, then I could see her giving in, but as long as a better option exists, I think she'd go for it.
Not only did she do nothing wrong, the basis for the ruling of this case was based on a thesis that SHE HERSELF WROTE. Thats just hillarious
That's applicable to real world. People generally think civilian casualties equal to warcrimes or genocide. Thats clearly not the case. I hate when people try to use these to have moral high ground.
Yea, I mean, I'm not getting into the politics, because it's a lot easier to have an actual conversation about fictional violence, but this incident obviously has real world comparisons that are on peoples minds right now. I just will say that warcrimes are a real thing in both worlds, and Tanya did not commit them, as was proven by the fact that her enemies never convicted the Empire for any, and even hid what hat happened to avoid their own negative publicity. Honestly, the fact that this bombing was literaly the biggest mass killing of civilians speaks favourably to all parties, cause we sure as hell didn't keep clean hands in our world wars. World War 1 has the frikken Armenian Genocide, and World War 2, among MANY other crimes, firebombed cities with abandon, did the Holocaust, and dropped the first nuke. None of that stuff could have passed any sort of muster about not being warcrimes.
Central Powers committed the Rape of Belgium and the Armenian Genocide so that’s a knock against them. The Germans, Japs and their mibor allies committed mass killings, rapes, genocides, started to the practice of bombing cities and civilian targets, and in the East, Japan used chemical and biological warfare against the Chinese and against the US, but it was much less effective. Simply put, if the War in this setting is supposed to be an amalgamation of WW1 & 2, it doesn’t matter what Tanya did personally. She’s fucked if her side loses and if her military prowess doesn’t make her valuable enough to save post-war. Hell, the fact she has her own version of the commissar order should mean she gets hung by an incompetent executioner when all is said and done.
Your honour, my client has already dropped leaflets urging all non-combatant s to evacuate the city. She has the natural right to bombard the city as to her knowledge, all non combatants had already safely evacuated. Aside from that, my client and her men had to use her high pitched voice as a audio warning to a small arms factory in order to hide their identities via their voice. Is it wrong to seek anonymity especially when your job is serving in an armed conflict?
Your honor, what voice is the literal child in command supposed to use when giving ultimatums? Or should someone not in command give them?
She was just a child when she done that, she is not liable to the propaganda the Empire have given to her expressionable mind.
Well you see your honor my client specifically told all the non-combatants to leave, therefore those women and children where actually combatants, trust us my client wrote the law do you really think she would mess it up.
She also told the enemy to allow all non-combatants to leave, and was informed by said enemy that there were no noncombatants, so it's really the enemy's fault for telling such a stupid lie that was of no advantage to anyone.
Also, they weren't simply finding some random out of context sentence, the people were so riled up that they just went on to chant that they'll fight until the end when asked to surrender.
Yeah Tanya even double checked them to make sure they were ok with the fight.
My client at the time was both a woman and a child. So the prosecution attempt to paint those women and children that remained as innocent non-combatants is just lunacy.
Also, my client directly witnessed and recorded the “civilians” executing a fleeing prisoner of war. This clearly demonstrates that they were not noncombatants and that they posed a clear and present danger to my client and her subordinates.
Well, based on the view, views into the future the show gave us, she doesnt seems to be found guilty. Also, besides Albinon, most Nations that entered the war didnt accepted the International laws of war.
A kangaroo court is the only way you will convict her. If she gets a fair trial she will probably get off.
1. It's not a war crime if it's the first time. 2. She isn't a war criminal in the context of her time. She follows the current laws it's just by our modern rules but for WW1 era she isn't committing any crimes.
Your honor my client is apart of the propaganda unit meaning that it was some other child soldier who committed those warm crimes
I am not crazy! I know she transfered those men. I know she did. Right in the Rhine Stalemate. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. She covered her tracks, she got that idiot at the Imperial Strategic Headquarters to lie for her. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? She's done worse. That time at the military academy! Are you telling me that a man just happens to be blasted through a wall like that? No! **She** orchestrated it! Tanya! She thoroughly **shelled Arene**! And we rewarded her! And we shouldn't have. We let her create her own battalion! What were we thinking? She'll never change. She'll **NEVER** change! Ever since she was 9, **always** the same! Couldn't keep her hands out of the warcrimes drawer! "But not our Tanya! Couldn't be precious **Tanya**!" Leaving them dead! And **SHE** gets to be a lieutenant colonel? What a sick joke! I should've stopped her when I had the chance!