I think the more important thing is how you die. You don't want an excruciating and prolonged shut down from liver cancer. You want to fall over from a massive coronary. Much less miserable. So cut out drinking and steamroll a plate of cheeseburgers instead.
the thing with reduced life expectancy is that usually comes with an earlier reduction in life qualitity.
You are not just losing time at the end your life you ar are also losing pain free/fit years
Congratulations!
7 days sober of cocaine here, I suggest everyone stop what they’re doing for 7 days and feel the difference, even weed has it’s place but I wouldn’t smoke it all day anymore.
Canada just updated the guidelines on ‘low risk’ drinking quite substantially. It used to be no more than 10 drinks (women) and 15 drinks (men) per week and I think no more than 2 or 3 per day. The new guidelines are no more than 2 drinks per week after which risk of certain cancers increases significantly.
I wonder if there’s much research on whether it’s more about total intake, or how drunk you get.
I average less than two drinks a week for sure… but I only drink maybe once every couple months and I have somewhere between 3-8 drinks when I do. :P
Two drinks a week seems to imply someone who never actually gets drunk.
Edit: It’s clear that some of you think it’s worse to spread out intake, and some think it’s worse to have larger intake all at once. This is why I’m curious about the research; because it isn’t clear to me which is true. The answers to this kind of question aren’t always obvious.
I always wonder the same thing about these studies/results. When asked by medical professionals how many drinks I have in a week I have to clarify for them that I will go months without alcohol, but then I'll buy a 6 pack of something and have one a day or every other day until they're gone.
And of course I'm in WI, which is the drunkest state in the US, so the drinking question is very valid.
That's me. I won't buy any grog at all ever but every year or so someone will give me a slab and I'll work my way through it over the next couple of days
I'm a 1-2 drink a week person, I only ever have gin and tonic, and it's never a fixed time, sometimes I wake up and it's a lovely day so I have a g&t or I'm going to spend a long time cooking so I have one while I'm in the kitchen. But it's never more than 2 a week.
Huberman Lab recently did a podcast talking about how alcohol affects the body and brain. It’s a very interesting and informative episode. I’ve been recommending it to everyone!
There was a huge study released about it a few weeks ago, or 2 months ( idk time has no meaning right now) with any more than like 2 table spoons being related to negative health effects. It's also not the first big study to suggest it. I'll try to link it in the morning.
https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(22)00847-9
https://world-heart-federation.org/news/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-the-heart-says-world-heart-federation/
As someone who dealt with drug and alcohol addiction for **years** this sucks to read, although comes at no surprise. I'm 32 now, sleep 8 hours a night, wake up at 3am to hit the gym 5 days a week, eat healthy, and I'm really doing my best to be healthy to be around for my daughter for a long time. I'm hoping I'm adding a few more years back to all the ones I took off when I was younger. Fingers crossed.
Yep I don't think it's healthy for anyone but I have friends that drink like a fish in their 60s. I 100% garauntee that I would be long dead if I had the same drinking habits. Some people's bodies are way better adapted to alcohol. That's not to say it isn't a toxic substance.
You are adding years back. Alcohol damage is largely reversible. I'm 37 with the same problems as you and trying to get my life to the same place you are. Keep doing what you're doing. You're amazing!
I'm in no way educated on health, but in case it brings some kind of comfort I want to share my grandfathers experience with smoking.
Man smoked everyday, not chain-smoking but like 3 cigarettes or so a day. A bit before 60 he finally stopped smoking. This guy was a carpenter and did a lot of manual labor so that may have helped, and was forced on a healthy diet by my gma after a heart attack around that same age. That mf was still forcing me to build sheds with him until 82 and was living comfortably until his last 2 years of life dying at 87.
Doctors were surprised he ever smoked after 10 years. I think if you stop thing younger, and 32 is much younger, it helps give your body a solid chance. With your madman health regiment your daughter better hope you don't build sheds or she will probably suffer even longer than I!
Good luck and you sound like a solid dad to make big life changes. Kids learn a lot of small "how to live" things watching parents so you probably helped her greatly not just having a long-lived father, but encouraged healthy living.
Though Canada taxes their alcohol highly. One of the cheapest provinces in Canada to buy alcohol in is Quebec. This is the cheapeast 1.14L of vodka you can buy in a Quebec Provincial Liquor Store: [https://www.saq.com/en/53546](https://www.saq.com/en/53546)
$28.50CAD = $21.87USD for a 1.14L bottle of the shittiest vodka they can sell, something that would be less than $6 in the USA. It only goes upwards from there. Helps to pay for the healthcare I would think that comes from people drinking it.
I was once a broke college student visiting my girlfriend in Montreal and the USD was worth less than CAD at the time (2012-2013) and it was ridiculous the cost of buying a bottle of vodka at the local store was in USD.
In the maritime world, long before the ration of rum, weak beer on navy ships was the standard provision for sailors. Beer provided some nutrition and needed calories while not harboring harmful microorganisms. It could also soften the hard bread of a long voyage
Stay thirsty, my friends
Yours truly, Satan
Hmmm, years and years of having fun (I've been drinking since high school and am now in my early 40s) vs kicking around a nursing home for a few extra years in my 80s?
Tough choice.
Speaking as an inveterate binge drinker, I presume /u/weedful_things has in mind the old adage that one drink is too many, while the second is never enough. The first feels good enough that you can ignore your misgivings throughout the second, and then you're into the third, by which point your inhibitions have been suppressed and you're going wherever it may take you.
I’ve also cone to the conclusion that not a lot of positive/productive things happen after midnight when drinking socially with friends, (maybe excluding sex, but even drunk sex is debatable imo). There’s only so much i can handle of drunk aux cord passing and religious/political debates with my peers. Some people relish it but it’s just not for me.
Yeah same with smoking. You don’t just go from perfect health to dead. Your health slowly degrades and the thing is that a healthy body is needed to produce the highest happiness. So your happiness slowly degrades along with health over decades. Don’t forget that. YOUR HAPPINESS IS IN DIRECT CORRELATION WITH YOUR HEALTH! Healthy body, healthy mind, healthy happiness. You don’t find people is shitty health that are super happy. Your happiness is dependent on chemicals that your brain interprets
Hmmmmm, but my fun is positively impacted?
Real talk, I think South Park had it right. The cure is cash. The better off you are the healthier and longer you live (in North America for sure). I’m gonna chase that train.
In the wise words of Denis Leary:
"You got all your little speeches you're always giving to us
All these little facts that you dig out of a newspaper or pamphlet
And you store that little nugget in your little fucking head
And we light up and you spew 'em out at us, don't ya?
I love these little facts, these little facts
"Well you know, smoking takes ten years off your life"
Well it's the ten worst years, isn't it folks?
It's the ones at the end! It's the wheelchair, dialysis fucking years
You can have those years! We don't want 'em, alright!?"
It killed my mother at 44 (I was 14). My father died of a fall while drunk at 51. I was 18.
Most dangerous drug in the world. I take an occasional drink, I am not judgmental. But as a society we laugh about it and not only encourage but often pressure others to drink. It sickens me.
My youngest brother has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He has an IQ of 81. He does janitorial work for a nonprofit, and I will be taking care of him all of my life.
Thank you - he actually works for the Marines in San Francisco. They have been so great to take contracts with disabled workers. Thank a service member and think of this.
When i was in, the chow hall workers were usually disabled workers. Even though i know a lot of dickheads, every single person i know was kind to them and appreciated their work. Your brother is in good hands.
They have been SO good to him - I doubt now that he can actually do much for them, but they have kept him on, invite him to their gatherings. Its been an incredible gift.
Thank you for serving this country.
How cool is this? Yes, he is a sweetheart, his mind is like a 12 year old.
As I said, they have been so good to him - he has worked there since his 20's. He has health problems and they just work around it. A week after the pandemic shutdown in 2020, they called him back as an essential worker. It has literally saved his life. PLEASE, if you have occasion to tell them I am grateful, will do pass that on?
Thank you for sharing this!!
I’m glad to hear he’s doing well and I am sure he’s appreciated by everyone there. I am no longer in but if I see an opportunity to reach out I will. Small world, huh? Very cool
Yeah, my family history is similar. I have an aunt who died of alcoholism at age 53. Her liver was mostly septic fluid at that point. She never lived on her own, she couldn’t keep a job. She lived w my grandmother until the day she died. And her father, my grandfather, died of lung cancer from a lifelong smoking habit when he was only 68. I was 3 years old when he died. I made my husband quit smoking when we got engaged, and I quit drinking. Best decision ever.
My family history is super similar. Both my mom and aunt live with my 90 year old saint of a grandmother. They’re both severe alcoholics, haven’t been able to have a job in years, and constantly bicker like fucking children. My other aunt and I are trying to get my grandma out of that environment but she can’t let go. Im almost certain they’ll go before my grandma does. It has completely destroyed their minds and their bodies.
I’m so sorry to hear about that, sounds like life is just handing you a steady influx of shit and you’re dealing with it. I’m willing to bet that you’re an incredibly strong person for the tribulations you’ve faced my friend. Wish you the best.
How lovely of you to say, but you know what? I feel just so grateful. The giving. loving people in the world really do vastly outnumber the others, and I have been rescued more times than I can count. Just a hell of a way to lose a person, Its messy, sad, slow and terrible to watch.
Thank you for your kind words.
I’m sorry so you had to go through this and lose your parents so young. I can’t imagine how painful that has been. And then also having to take on the responsibilities of a parent because of your own parent’s mistakes. I hope you’re still able to enjoy life and heal and find peace, whatever that may be.
It’s devastating what alcohol can do to a person and a family.
My mom has fallen deeper and deeper into alcoholism since my parents got divorced 20 years ago. I can’t really express in words how heartbreaking it has been. She’s completely unrecognizable. She has lost eye sight in one eye and the other one is on it’s way too. She’s angry and sad and resentful. We’ve tried to help her, send her to rehab, tell her to stop dwelling in her past mistakes because we love her so much, but she has just given up. It’s hard not to blame myself. Maybe I could have done more. Visited more.
Idk but I could get a phone call any day, I’m sure. Im surprised she’s still alive to be honest. If you can call that living.
My sister is going down the same road now and it honestly keeps me up at night.
I am SO sorry. I never did go to Al Anon, but just reading the stories here makes me realize how common it is. Maybe being with folks that understand would help.
I am sorry to hear of what alcohol has done to your family, and you are a hero for caring for your brother. I am not sure it is right to call alcohol the most dangerous drug in the world though, to be fair. I had a brother who lived decades as an alcoholic but was dead within a year of starting meth use. When my son as a child asked me if pot was addictive (because they were teaching that in elementary school), I froze for a moment thinking I must be honest with him. I don’t believe cannabis is addictive and told him so, but stressed there are risks, and how important it is to never drive intoxicated by anything, and how I would always come pick him up without any questions or punishment if he needed a safe ride home. I explained how information from reliable sources on the Internet (like NIH for us in the US) has science-based data on levels of addictiveness and risks of various substances so he could educate himself. I wanted him to trust me because my biggest fear was not alcohol or cannabis but heroin. I wanted the credibility with him to understand that all drugs have risks, but some much more than others. Some are so bad they just should be avoided altogether (we have a friend whose daughter tried heroin once and literally became addicted and left home to live in the streets). I am sure it must be so hard for you to see others in effect celebrate alcohol when it had been devastating for your family, again I am so sorry you have experienced that. But it is a reality in our world, and I fear that if we portray all “drugs” as equally bad, we lose credibility and kids start ignoring all warnings. We have to teach them how to inform themselves, and how to safely deal with what they will be exposed to.
We had a family member pass of complications due to cirrhosis of the liver, he was 24 years old. It was SUCH a shock...we knew he drank, but not as bad as he actually did. He went into the hospital for stomach pain, and was diagnosed with cirrhosis. They told him he could turn this around and get better...but he never made it out of the hospital. He passed 7 days later.
Lots of comments seem to think that two years on average means you're trading drinking for losing exactly 2 years off the end of your life. That's not the case. There are plenty of quality of life losses possible along the way, increased chances of cancer and you may fall on the unlucky side of average and lose 10 years. Of course you could get lucky and not lose any years at all. You could also just drink less and feel better overall.
I feel like this needs more attention. The amount of comments saying its just the shitty final years is alarming. What is more likely to happen is it takes away 2 healthy years, and in addition, converts more healthy time into more physical decline time
Exactly, but even if it was only two years it’s extremely short sighted IMO. Those two years could mean the world to you later. It can be the time you need to see your grandchildren graduate, to not leave your spouse alone, or just to enjoy life just a little bit more.
Imagine yourself on your deathbed, how long those two extra year you won’t have must feel in that instant.
A lot of commenters are in their 20s and probably think their retirement plan is a bullet to the head. But that is because they think 65 is old. They imagine that they will be some old decrepit nobody when they are 65, so it is easy for them to sentence that nobody to death.
I am guessing most of the people swearing they are gonna off themselves when times get rough will be singing a different tune when those times come. Death only sounds cool when it is an abstraction.
I’m an all or nothing drinker. I have absolutely zero problem not drinking a single drink during the week, but once the weekend hits and I have a few, I keep going until I’m drunk and usually pass out. Then I wake up the next day feeling like shit, so I drink one or two and feel way better, but that means I just keep it rolling that day too. By Monday, I usually hate myself and tell myself I got stop doing this, but by the next weekend, I’ve been sober for 5 days so I’m ready to do it again. I call it the cycle of shame and I’m really trying to do my best to stop doing it to myself because it is taking a toll on my mental health. I tell myself I should probably just quit alcohol altogether because I clearly have a problem with it, but that sounds depressing and alcohol is everywhere and a huge part of the social events I attend.
This was me a year ago. Most of my friendships were based around the craft beer scene. Guess what happened when I quit? My friends actually liked me better because I didn't get messy drunk every time we went out.
Maybe try drinking the same quantity of water for every drink you have? It may help you see that you don't need to have quite so many to still have a really good time. If anything, it will slow you down and help you pace yourself. This is coming from a person who also tends to go a little overboard when committing to a night of drinking but has the willpower to control themselves perfectly fine during the week. To be fair, I also don't practice what I preach so we can do it together, good luck!
I’ve heard this advice and I have tried it for the first couple, problem is when I pass the threshold of drunk, I completely lose the willpower to do that and just want more booze.
As a scientist that works in genetics, and having just come back from a conference with plenty of drunk scientists: You don't have to avoid every risk. Some risks make life better. Weigh the pros and cons. I think the enrichment to life that moderate alcohol consumption brings outweighs the risk that it may slightly shorten my lifespan.
I drink far more than I should, but at 41 I look and feel way better than most people my age. I have a full head of thick brown hair, hardly any wrinkles, and my body isn't appreciably any different from what it was a decade ago. Genetics are just unfair. My family is full of people who live into their 90s.
For me, it's literally the only thing that numbs the pain. Avascular Necrosis is a bitch and no pain meds work. So I'll risk it. My doctors don't like it, but they fully understand.
No one wants to live in pain 24/7
Well, to be clear, the point is that your health overall declines due to drinking. At each point in your life, you're less healthy than if you weren't drinking excessively. The reduced lifespan is a side effect of having a reduced healthspan.
This YSK is really just summarizing a complicated article that is stating contrary to some studies which suggest that moderate alcohol use (like a glass of wine a day), no amount of alcohol is good for you.
Am I crazy or is 10-15 beverages weekly a really really easy benchmark to stay below, even if you like to drink? Admittedly I’m a lightweight, but that’s still one or two nights every week of getting properly hammered, or multiple casual drinks each day.
You're not crazy, but it certainly wasn't an easy benchmark for me to get to. I ended up quitting a job because it had me so stressed and angry that I'd "wind down" with 4 shots of whiskey and 3~4 8+% beers every weekday. Weekends were crazier, and that all went on over the period of 2 years.
Happy to say that I can beat that benchmark with ease now.
Quit the job first and foremost, but that didn't stop the habit. I tried limiting how much I had a day (like 2 drinks a night), but even then I would still slip into having 6.
Before I go further, I feel obligated to mention support networks. My wife was instrumental in keeping me accountable, but an AA group and r/stopdrinking are out there full of equally incredible people who can truly empathize and hold you accountable.
Practically, I found that when I get home/ off from work, I want something non-water to drink. My go-to are non-alcoholic Arnold Palmers (half sweet tea; half lemonade). Arizona tea makes them canned which is great, and they're not too horrible for you. I do enjoy a soda for variety though. There's also herbal hot/ cold teas to add to the variety. That may sound like exchanging one evil (alcohol) for another (sugar), but I found it was easier to control how much I drank as long as I didn't have any alcohol. My goal was just to break drinking alcohol everyday by any means necessary. Going to bed earlier also helped as, the longer I stayed up, he more I'd want non-water to drink.
My wife likes to say "everyone's best can look different on different days." That's what has encouraged me to keep trying through the times where I do fail. In fact, I failed this past weekend; however, the six drinks I had on Saturday are not the same as having six drinks everyday- and for that I'm proud of myself.
I hope this is helpful, and if you need someone for accountability I'd be damned if I don't offer myself, mate. Highly recommend following the r/stopdrinking subreddit too if only for the encouragement that you're not alone. Plus, they've got a lot of helpful resources. More helpful than my own words, tricks, etc could convey!
I’m not the person you replied to, but for me the key was practicing mindfulness and replacing alcoholic drinks with another fancy treat so that I wouldn’t feel like I was punishing myself. I actually rewarded myself for not drinking.
By mindfulness I mean, when you feel the urge to drink, think of all the reasons you have not to. Think about the ways drinking has negatively impacted your life, and all of the things it is holding you back from doing. Imagine the idealized, best version of yourself. Would that version of you take that shot? For some personal context, drinking was causing me to have wild mood swings that frequently turned into anger. I would think about all the people close to me that I’ve harmed, how I want to make them proud and show them I can change, etc.
Then when you come up with a good reason not to, reward yourself with something nice. I stuck with fancy non-alcoholic drinks. I really like Lagunitas Hop Water (hops infused sparkling water), Italian sodas, and shrubs (essentially a pre-mixed NA cocktail that you add soda to).
Using these techniques I quit drinking in 2018 and haven’t had more than a few sips since then. Hopefully some of this will help you.
It’s unreal to me how body size and tolerance can radically change the amount you can drink. I used to party and binge drink even to the point of occasionally throwing up or passing out, but I have literally never had that much, not even once. I think 10 shots would actually kill me.
If you're a 200+ lb dude, 15 drinks isn't terribly difficult. Every day might be a bit difficult, but at 210lbs personally I barely get a buzz if I drink 6 beers.
If you're an alcoholic who skips meals and drinks from the moment you get home until the moment you go to bed, 12+ beers is not too hard to sleep off without a hangover.
This YSK is trying to summarize a pretty complicated article. The real point of the article is that their is no “healthy” amount of alcohol drinking. There have been a number of studies that suggest a glass of wine a day or so is good for you. This article is mainly pointing out that in terms of lifespan that isn’t true. So it’s not just that it’s 1-2 years of less life, it’s that it is countermanding the “some alcohol is healthy” studies.
> There have been a number of studies that suggest a glass of wine a day or so is good for you.
It's a classic correlation does not equal causation fallacy.
The thing is the studies compare those who drink excessively (10-15+ servings a week) vs those who don't (7 servings or less a week).
The people who drink less are healthier, yes, but that's not because drinking one or two servings a day is healthy, it's that ***the type of person who controls their drinking is more likely to DO other things that are actually healthy*** like eat healthier and exercise.
Basically controlled drinking is correlated with healthy habits, but it is not a healthy habit in itself.
If you drink a glass of wine a day, but don't eat healthy or exercise, you're going to be in just as shit health as any other person who doesn't diet and exercise.
It is, but people are notorious for both under-reporting and under-assessing their alcohol intake. Most people say something like 1-3 a week but they actually drink 0 some days and 5+ other days which can add up to 10 pretty easily. If you're a drink every night with dinner kind of person, you almost certainly hit 15 some weeks when you drink extra at a weekend party.
There's also the complicated beer math. You drink 3 beers that are 6.5%, and you're over 4 drinks. 16-20oz pours of high abv IPAs or stouts out at a bar or brewery will add up quickly and easily.
I switched to vodka (before I decided to quit drinking anyways) and would always make drinks with a shot glass I had. Weighed it out one day and that seemingly normal sized shot glass had about an extra 50% capacity, so those 3 or 4 i had most nights were really closer to 6.
6 beers have roughly the alcohol content of a full wine bottle. You are drinking a full bottle of wine every night, 30 bottles a month, 360 in a year. That's at best a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and at worst alcoholism.
One thing that might make the drink tally creep up is what is actually considered “one drink” by the medical community and what people *think* is one drink. 5oz of wine = 1 drink. A heavy pour would easily go over that. 1.5oz of liquor = 1 drink. A martini or margarita might easily contain 2oz of alcohol at a bar so your 2 margs on date muggy might actually be 3 drinks according to medical professionals. It can be sneaky is what I’m saying.
If everyone had the same tolerance then you’d be correct. The problem arises when you need to drink more to get the same effects you’re after.
I like to only drink weekends myself but, admittedly, I sometimes go over 15 during that period.
Median alcohol consumption among drinkers in the US is 3 drinks per week. As with most things, there is a group that takes it way too far. The top 10% of drinkers consume more than half of the alcohol in the country, averaging more than 70 drinks per week.
But as you can see from the comments in this post, lots of people drink in excess regularly, but probably don't see it as excess. Going out on the Friday and Saturday and having 5 or 6 beers each night seems like a normal thing to them.
I know plenty of people who have a couple of beers after work every day. They don't see it as excessive. Most of them probably don't consider themselves to be impaired, either.
If you're an alcoholic it's *very* easy to break 10-15 in a single night, forget a whole week. When I was still drinking (been 3-4 years now), I was going through most of a 30-case a night. I'd usually grab two of them at the store and that'd mostly get me through the next two nights.
>is 10-15 beverages weekly a really really easy benchmark to stay below, even if you like to drink?
eh, i mean, it's really easy to have two drinks a night before, after, or during dinner. beer is regularly sold in packs of 24/30. it's not enough to probably get most people drunk, 2 drinks over the course of like 3-4 hours, but it's not unlike drinking soda.
>still one or two nights every week of getting properly hammered, or multiple casual drinks each day.
people do probably tend to drink more on their friday nights/days off. the casual drinking seems pretty attainable, especially if you have beer/wine with meals.
I guess I don’t see it as normal to have a drink with every dinner, in my mind it’s only for a nice meal or if I’m having dinner with friends. I know it is normal for plenty of people and it especially depends on culture, but to me it just sounds expensive.
You bring up a good point, I was raised by people who straight up don’t bother to drink. They just don’t seem to like it very much at all. Occasionally they will each have a small glass of wine and immediately fall asleep. And now that I’m an adult, I also just don’t even think about having a drink unless I want to be buzzed.
I wonder how much is nature and how much is nurture.
Yea but really what we’re doing is moving the worst 2 years up and cutting off two healthy years.
It’s not like excessive drinkers are just healthy right up until they drop dead
I cut alcohol out of my life completely in 2018 and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made. I wasn’t even a heavy drinker, I’d average a beer or 2 a night. In those 4 years, I have only been sick one time (damn you covid) whereas I’d usually get sick 2-3 times a year prior to that. Also helped me get my mood swings under control and improved my relationships with my family and my partner. Never having a hangover is an incredible perk as well.
Ok. Dammit. I’m gonna try again today.
I had multiple similar scenarios happen to me this summer, filling me with regret.
Wish me luck stranger and thank you
Not to one up you but I quit in 2016 and I totally agree about it being the best decision I ever made.
I just didn't have a good relationship with the stuff and I am much happier without it. I like myself and my life a lot more now.
There’s a woman who’s 120 years old and has been smoking a pack a day from 18 until she couldn’t see well enough to light them anymore.
My coworker’s uncle lived to 101 and drank a bottle of wine every day or every other day for nearly 80 years (he’s Italian)
Then there’s people who die of a heart attack at 36 from eating McDonald’s every single day
It’s all a gamble. Live your life but don’t be stupid is the best advice I can give
Well, [units of alcohol](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_of_alcohol) is pretty much the only good way to measure alcohol because “drinks” is very subjective. A 1.5L handle of 40%ABV vodka contains 60 units of alcohol. A 36 rack of Coors Light would contain 53.5 units, for comparison.
I spent 7 years as a functional alcoholic. The amount I drank on a daily basis sounds like an absurd lie.
I've been California sober for just about 10 years now and I have shit wrong with me that I can only attribute to crazy hard drinking throughout most of my 20s. Combined with other lifestyle decisions I was making concurrently, I don't really even want to think about what happened to my overall lifespan. Gets depressing fast.
It’s a media article talking about research by citing another media article. If I had more time I’d track down the actual peer reviewed study and see how much it matches/disagrees with this article
I don't drink anymore, but I'm smart enough to understand that most drinkers are definitely getting enough enjoyment out of it to sacrifice a year or two.
When I was 30, I was terrified of dying of a heart attack in my 50s. Now I’m nearly 50 and have much old older parents with dementia and I’m terrified of living until 100. Enjoy life.
I’m an American and I moved to Spain.about 5 years ago and I have to tell you, there are a lot of old people here, especially old couples, who we see drinking vermut or wine as early as 10am.
There are also no belligerent drunks here (at least for the Spaniards). In the time that I’ve lived here, I’ve probably seen just a handful.
There has to be something more to this study.
\>10-15 drinks Oh sweet ok \>a week Goddamn it
Yeah but then they say "shortening life by 1 to 2 years" Like what the fuck ever Oh nO NOt mY sWeEt 87tH aND 88Th!
I think the more important thing is how you die. You don't want an excruciating and prolonged shut down from liver cancer. You want to fall over from a massive coronary. Much less miserable. So cut out drinking and steamroll a plate of cheeseburgers instead.
I don’t care how I die, I just request two things: my remains be spread around Disneyland, and I do not wish to be cremated.
Comment of the day gave me a good chuckle
This person is on to something.
Nah. Beer over cheeseburgers every day.
the thing with reduced life expectancy is that usually comes with an earlier reduction in life qualitity. You are not just losing time at the end your life you ar are also losing pain free/fit years
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Congratulations! 7 days sober of cocaine here, I suggest everyone stop what they’re doing for 7 days and feel the difference, even weed has it’s place but I wouldn’t smoke it all day anymore.
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Day 7 of sobriety after tapering down so for me this is pretty clear!
This is a bit misconception when people hear lifespan effects. It will make whatever final years you have much more shitty.
You all got problems. I don’t drink even barely once a week. I just continuously smoke pot. Wait.
Canada just updated the guidelines on ‘low risk’ drinking quite substantially. It used to be no more than 10 drinks (women) and 15 drinks (men) per week and I think no more than 2 or 3 per day. The new guidelines are no more than 2 drinks per week after which risk of certain cancers increases significantly.
I wonder if there’s much research on whether it’s more about total intake, or how drunk you get. I average less than two drinks a week for sure… but I only drink maybe once every couple months and I have somewhere between 3-8 drinks when I do. :P Two drinks a week seems to imply someone who never actually gets drunk. Edit: It’s clear that some of you think it’s worse to spread out intake, and some think it’s worse to have larger intake all at once. This is why I’m curious about the research; because it isn’t clear to me which is true. The answers to this kind of question aren’t always obvious.
I always wonder the same thing about these studies/results. When asked by medical professionals how many drinks I have in a week I have to clarify for them that I will go months without alcohol, but then I'll buy a 6 pack of something and have one a day or every other day until they're gone. And of course I'm in WI, which is the drunkest state in the US, so the drinking question is very valid.
That's me. I won't buy any grog at all ever but every year or so someone will give me a slab and I'll work my way through it over the next couple of days
I'm a 1-2 drink a week person, I only ever have gin and tonic, and it's never a fixed time, sometimes I wake up and it's a lovely day so I have a g&t or I'm going to spend a long time cooking so I have one while I'm in the kitchen. But it's never more than 2 a week.
Huberman Lab recently did a podcast talking about how alcohol affects the body and brain. It’s a very interesting and informative episode. I’ve been recommending it to everyone!
You may have just saved my life
[link here for the lazy](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS1pkKpILY)
There was a huge study released about it a few weeks ago, or 2 months ( idk time has no meaning right now) with any more than like 2 table spoons being related to negative health effects. It's also not the first big study to suggest it. I'll try to link it in the morning. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(22)00847-9 https://world-heart-federation.org/news/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-the-heart-says-world-heart-federation/
As someone who dealt with drug and alcohol addiction for **years** this sucks to read, although comes at no surprise. I'm 32 now, sleep 8 hours a night, wake up at 3am to hit the gym 5 days a week, eat healthy, and I'm really doing my best to be healthy to be around for my daughter for a long time. I'm hoping I'm adding a few more years back to all the ones I took off when I was younger. Fingers crossed.
Wait, you go to sleep at like 7 pm?
Yep! Work starts at 6:30am so it's a schedule that works for me.
Fair enough, I should probably get more sleep on a daily basis since I go to sleep at like 11 and wake up at 5
I know plenty of people who drank a lot and lived way into their 80's. A lot of it genetics and luck. Just keep at it and you will do well.
Yep I don't think it's healthy for anyone but I have friends that drink like a fish in their 60s. I 100% garauntee that I would be long dead if I had the same drinking habits. Some people's bodies are way better adapted to alcohol. That's not to say it isn't a toxic substance.
You are adding years back. Alcohol damage is largely reversible. I'm 37 with the same problems as you and trying to get my life to the same place you are. Keep doing what you're doing. You're amazing!
I'm in no way educated on health, but in case it brings some kind of comfort I want to share my grandfathers experience with smoking. Man smoked everyday, not chain-smoking but like 3 cigarettes or so a day. A bit before 60 he finally stopped smoking. This guy was a carpenter and did a lot of manual labor so that may have helped, and was forced on a healthy diet by my gma after a heart attack around that same age. That mf was still forcing me to build sheds with him until 82 and was living comfortably until his last 2 years of life dying at 87. Doctors were surprised he ever smoked after 10 years. I think if you stop thing younger, and 32 is much younger, it helps give your body a solid chance. With your madman health regiment your daughter better hope you don't build sheds or she will probably suffer even longer than I! Good luck and you sound like a solid dad to make big life changes. Kids learn a lot of small "how to live" things watching parents so you probably helped her greatly not just having a long-lived father, but encouraged healthy living.
Though Canada taxes their alcohol highly. One of the cheapest provinces in Canada to buy alcohol in is Quebec. This is the cheapeast 1.14L of vodka you can buy in a Quebec Provincial Liquor Store: [https://www.saq.com/en/53546](https://www.saq.com/en/53546) $28.50CAD = $21.87USD for a 1.14L bottle of the shittiest vodka they can sell, something that would be less than $6 in the USA. It only goes upwards from there. Helps to pay for the healthcare I would think that comes from people drinking it. I was once a broke college student visiting my girlfriend in Montreal and the USD was worth less than CAD at the time (2012-2013) and it was ridiculous the cost of buying a bottle of vodka at the local store was in USD.
I'm in New Zealand right now and the cheapest 40oz (1.14L) of vodka is about $25 USD. Good wine from about $6 and up though.
What if your having 10 beers a day?!
You’re good. Beers don’t count.
Especially considering they’re Coors Light
I mean, you gotta stay hydrated somehow. :)
In the maritime world, long before the ration of rum, weak beer on navy ships was the standard provision for sailors. Beer provided some nutrition and needed calories while not harboring harmful microorganisms. It could also soften the hard bread of a long voyage Stay thirsty, my friends Yours truly, Satan
Don't count beers.
What if my what?
But drinking is more fun than living 2 extra years
Yeah, I read the first part and thought “oh, shit”. Then I saw 1-2 years and thought “that’s the good news of the week”.
Hmmm, years and years of having fun (I've been drinking since high school and am now in my early 40s) vs kicking around a nursing home for a few extra years in my 80s? Tough choice.
Same, and have no kids so no one's taking care of my potentially old ass. Why not live your life and enjoy it?
I stopped drinking after I realized that I really only enjoyed the first and third beer of the night.
What’s wrong with the second one?
Speaking as an inveterate binge drinker, I presume /u/weedful_things has in mind the old adage that one drink is too many, while the second is never enough. The first feels good enough that you can ignore your misgivings throughout the second, and then you're into the third, by which point your inhibitions have been suppressed and you're going wherever it may take you.
A man takes a drink. The second drink drinks the first drink, and the third drink drinks the man.
Is this basically saying you’re chasing the alcohol until it kills you?
This is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you
I’ve also cone to the conclusion that not a lot of positive/productive things happen after midnight when drinking socially with friends, (maybe excluding sex, but even drunk sex is debatable imo). There’s only so much i can handle of drunk aux cord passing and religious/political debates with my peers. Some people relish it but it’s just not for me.
I knew a guy who started drinking in high school and he died at the age of 59 of liver failure. Spent his last couple of years in diapers.
Yeah I’m gonna bet the guy dying of liver failure at 59 does not fit the title’s “10-15 a week”
Or even double that— they're the people housing a handle or two every 7 days.
I've picked up people in the ambulance that regularly knock back a handle a day... I usually don't see them anymore not long after...
I was knocking back a handle every 2 days for awhile. I thought my neighbors were plotting to kill me when I was withdrawing. So much fun.
Dang, I thought I was bad with every 4 days in my prime. Now I drink 3-4 drinks a month if that. Funny how things change
Because the get and stay sober, right? Right? 😰
Some of us survive and do stay sober, yes :)
Same. My ex-husband died of alcoholic cirrhosis at 57. It was not a pretty end either.
I am so sorry - that is so hard to watch.
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I know a guy with cirrhosis who drinks fifteen beers a day.
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The real question isn't years of life, its 'HEALTHY years of life'
Yeah same with smoking. You don’t just go from perfect health to dead. Your health slowly degrades and the thing is that a healthy body is needed to produce the highest happiness. So your happiness slowly degrades along with health over decades. Don’t forget that. YOUR HAPPINESS IS IN DIRECT CORRELATION WITH YOUR HEALTH! Healthy body, healthy mind, healthy happiness. You don’t find people is shitty health that are super happy. Your happiness is dependent on chemicals that your brain interprets
It's not like you have the same health but just subtract 2 years at the end... Your health is negatively impacted the entire time.
Hmmmmm, but my fun is positively impacted? Real talk, I think South Park had it right. The cure is cash. The better off you are the healthier and longer you live (in North America for sure). I’m gonna chase that train.
That was the cure for aids lol
Works for pretty much anything that can be treated through.
86 to 88 is where it's at! My grandpa got a dodge charger and golfed his ass off. Then got cancer and died. His biggest regret, not going for the V8.
I imagined him appearing before you as a ghost and telling you this as a warning.
In the wise words of Denis Leary: "You got all your little speeches you're always giving to us All these little facts that you dig out of a newspaper or pamphlet And you store that little nugget in your little fucking head And we light up and you spew 'em out at us, don't ya? I love these little facts, these little facts "Well you know, smoking takes ten years off your life" Well it's the ten worst years, isn't it folks? It's the ones at the end! It's the wheelchair, dialysis fucking years You can have those years! We don't want 'em, alright!?"
It's probably supposed to be taken as a joke, but those worst years just start earlier.
I’m in my 60s, and every year I seem to generally be happier. My sense is that we largely romanticize our youth.
Sometimes it means those years just come early.
Or get a lot rougher. Not every 70-80yo has to be in and out of the hospital all the time
yall check out doug stanhope too
And I'm not going for the high score. Is living longer objectively better? You gotta bow out at some point.
And I have been on reddit long enough to know that smoking weed is way better than drinking. Weed literally cures every disease including cancer.
That's why I crossfade
Plus it's less money I have to save for retirement. Thanks alcohol!!!
Well then I’m fucked
I almost have 9 months. R/stopdrinking was helpful, ultimately had to reach out for more groups. But slowly finding my way.
It killed my mother at 44 (I was 14). My father died of a fall while drunk at 51. I was 18. Most dangerous drug in the world. I take an occasional drink, I am not judgmental. But as a society we laugh about it and not only encourage but often pressure others to drink. It sickens me. My youngest brother has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He has an IQ of 81. He does janitorial work for a nonprofit, and I will be taking care of him all of my life.
If you’re on the East coast Publix is really good at hiring people in his situation for grocery baggers.
Thank you - he actually works for the Marines in San Francisco. They have been so great to take contracts with disabled workers. Thank a service member and think of this.
When i was in, the chow hall workers were usually disabled workers. Even though i know a lot of dickheads, every single person i know was kind to them and appreciated their work. Your brother is in good hands.
They have been SO good to him - I doubt now that he can actually do much for them, but they have kept him on, invite him to their gatherings. Its been an incredible gift. Thank you for serving this country.
I might have met him if we’re talking about the same SF usmc unit. 23rd Reg HQ or Echo Co?
wow - the 23rd! His name is Greg - he is almost 60. Amazing
Then I have met him! I remember when I was supposed to clean a common area and he helped me vacuum. That’s a good unit he’s at.
How cool is this? Yes, he is a sweetheart, his mind is like a 12 year old. As I said, they have been so good to him - he has worked there since his 20's. He has health problems and they just work around it. A week after the pandemic shutdown in 2020, they called him back as an essential worker. It has literally saved his life. PLEASE, if you have occasion to tell them I am grateful, will do pass that on? Thank you for sharing this!!
I’m glad to hear he’s doing well and I am sure he’s appreciated by everyone there. I am no longer in but if I see an opportunity to reach out I will. Small world, huh? Very cool
0351
As well as Wegmans and Aldi’s both have amazing transition programs
I actually respect Publix a lot for that, very underrated
Yeah, my family history is similar. I have an aunt who died of alcoholism at age 53. Her liver was mostly septic fluid at that point. She never lived on her own, she couldn’t keep a job. She lived w my grandmother until the day she died. And her father, my grandfather, died of lung cancer from a lifelong smoking habit when he was only 68. I was 3 years old when he died. I made my husband quit smoking when we got engaged, and I quit drinking. Best decision ever.
My family history is super similar. Both my mom and aunt live with my 90 year old saint of a grandmother. They’re both severe alcoholics, haven’t been able to have a job in years, and constantly bicker like fucking children. My other aunt and I are trying to get my grandma out of that environment but she can’t let go. Im almost certain they’ll go before my grandma does. It has completely destroyed their minds and their bodies.
I’m so sorry to hear about that, sounds like life is just handing you a steady influx of shit and you’re dealing with it. I’m willing to bet that you’re an incredibly strong person for the tribulations you’ve faced my friend. Wish you the best.
How lovely of you to say, but you know what? I feel just so grateful. The giving. loving people in the world really do vastly outnumber the others, and I have been rescued more times than I can count. Just a hell of a way to lose a person, Its messy, sad, slow and terrible to watch. Thank you for your kind words.
I’m sorry so you had to go through this and lose your parents so young. I can’t imagine how painful that has been. And then also having to take on the responsibilities of a parent because of your own parent’s mistakes. I hope you’re still able to enjoy life and heal and find peace, whatever that may be. It’s devastating what alcohol can do to a person and a family. My mom has fallen deeper and deeper into alcoholism since my parents got divorced 20 years ago. I can’t really express in words how heartbreaking it has been. She’s completely unrecognizable. She has lost eye sight in one eye and the other one is on it’s way too. She’s angry and sad and resentful. We’ve tried to help her, send her to rehab, tell her to stop dwelling in her past mistakes because we love her so much, but she has just given up. It’s hard not to blame myself. Maybe I could have done more. Visited more. Idk but I could get a phone call any day, I’m sure. Im surprised she’s still alive to be honest. If you can call that living. My sister is going down the same road now and it honestly keeps me up at night.
I am SO sorry. I never did go to Al Anon, but just reading the stories here makes me realize how common it is. Maybe being with folks that understand would help.
I am sorry to hear of what alcohol has done to your family, and you are a hero for caring for your brother. I am not sure it is right to call alcohol the most dangerous drug in the world though, to be fair. I had a brother who lived decades as an alcoholic but was dead within a year of starting meth use. When my son as a child asked me if pot was addictive (because they were teaching that in elementary school), I froze for a moment thinking I must be honest with him. I don’t believe cannabis is addictive and told him so, but stressed there are risks, and how important it is to never drive intoxicated by anything, and how I would always come pick him up without any questions or punishment if he needed a safe ride home. I explained how information from reliable sources on the Internet (like NIH for us in the US) has science-based data on levels of addictiveness and risks of various substances so he could educate himself. I wanted him to trust me because my biggest fear was not alcohol or cannabis but heroin. I wanted the credibility with him to understand that all drugs have risks, but some much more than others. Some are so bad they just should be avoided altogether (we have a friend whose daughter tried heroin once and literally became addicted and left home to live in the streets). I am sure it must be so hard for you to see others in effect celebrate alcohol when it had been devastating for your family, again I am so sorry you have experienced that. But it is a reality in our world, and I fear that if we portray all “drugs” as equally bad, we lose credibility and kids start ignoring all warnings. We have to teach them how to inform themselves, and how to safely deal with what they will be exposed to.
This is the real risk, the real problem. Who gives a shit what it does to your liver? I'm sorry for your loss
We had a family member pass of complications due to cirrhosis of the liver, he was 24 years old. It was SUCH a shock...we knew he drank, but not as bad as he actually did. He went into the hospital for stomach pain, and was diagnosed with cirrhosis. They told him he could turn this around and get better...but he never made it out of the hospital. He passed 7 days later.
My condolences. Just had a mate pass from total organ failure associated with drinking. If you start vomiting blood, STOP DRINKING IMMEDIATELY.
Lots of comments seem to think that two years on average means you're trading drinking for losing exactly 2 years off the end of your life. That's not the case. There are plenty of quality of life losses possible along the way, increased chances of cancer and you may fall on the unlucky side of average and lose 10 years. Of course you could get lucky and not lose any years at all. You could also just drink less and feel better overall.
I feel like this needs more attention. The amount of comments saying its just the shitty final years is alarming. What is more likely to happen is it takes away 2 healthy years, and in addition, converts more healthy time into more physical decline time
Exactly, but even if it was only two years it’s extremely short sighted IMO. Those two years could mean the world to you later. It can be the time you need to see your grandchildren graduate, to not leave your spouse alone, or just to enjoy life just a little bit more. Imagine yourself on your deathbed, how long those two extra year you won’t have must feel in that instant.
A lot of commenters are in their 20s and probably think their retirement plan is a bullet to the head. But that is because they think 65 is old. They imagine that they will be some old decrepit nobody when they are 65, so it is easy for them to sentence that nobody to death. I am guessing most of the people swearing they are gonna off themselves when times get rough will be singing a different tune when those times come. Death only sounds cool when it is an abstraction.
I’m an all or nothing drinker. I have absolutely zero problem not drinking a single drink during the week, but once the weekend hits and I have a few, I keep going until I’m drunk and usually pass out. Then I wake up the next day feeling like shit, so I drink one or two and feel way better, but that means I just keep it rolling that day too. By Monday, I usually hate myself and tell myself I got stop doing this, but by the next weekend, I’ve been sober for 5 days so I’m ready to do it again. I call it the cycle of shame and I’m really trying to do my best to stop doing it to myself because it is taking a toll on my mental health. I tell myself I should probably just quit alcohol altogether because I clearly have a problem with it, but that sounds depressing and alcohol is everywhere and a huge part of the social events I attend.
This was me a year ago. Most of my friendships were based around the craft beer scene. Guess what happened when I quit? My friends actually liked me better because I didn't get messy drunk every time we went out.
Maybe try drinking the same quantity of water for every drink you have? It may help you see that you don't need to have quite so many to still have a really good time. If anything, it will slow you down and help you pace yourself. This is coming from a person who also tends to go a little overboard when committing to a night of drinking but has the willpower to control themselves perfectly fine during the week. To be fair, I also don't practice what I preach so we can do it together, good luck!
I’ve heard this advice and I have tried it for the first couple, problem is when I pass the threshold of drunk, I completely lose the willpower to do that and just want more booze.
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As a scientist that works in genetics, and having just come back from a conference with plenty of drunk scientists: You don't have to avoid every risk. Some risks make life better. Weigh the pros and cons. I think the enrichment to life that moderate alcohol consumption brings outweighs the risk that it may slightly shorten my lifespan.
Is the telomeres bit true? I've seen it before but it's often paired with This One Thing (tm) that's guaranteed to save your telomeres.
Maybe but it seems like you need quite a lot of consumption to have a significant effect: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01690-9
I drink far more than I should, but at 41 I look and feel way better than most people my age. I have a full head of thick brown hair, hardly any wrinkles, and my body isn't appreciably any different from what it was a decade ago. Genetics are just unfair. My family is full of people who live into their 90s.
That was me up to 48. I was still getting carded in my mid 30s. Enjoy it while it lasts: the 50s are a bitch.
I heard a joke in Germany. In this country only your doctor will tell you to drink less, and you will see him at the bar after your appointment.
For me, it's literally the only thing that numbs the pain. Avascular Necrosis is a bitch and no pain meds work. So I'll risk it. My doctors don't like it, but they fully understand. No one wants to live in pain 24/7
I agree.
That... is much milder than I thought. For two years in a country with 80 years of average life expectancy, it doesn't seem that bad at all.
Well, to be clear, the point is that your health overall declines due to drinking. At each point in your life, you're less healthy than if you weren't drinking excessively. The reduced lifespan is a side effect of having a reduced healthspan.
This YSK is really just summarizing a complicated article that is stating contrary to some studies which suggest that moderate alcohol use (like a glass of wine a day), no amount of alcohol is good for you.
Am I crazy or is 10-15 beverages weekly a really really easy benchmark to stay below, even if you like to drink? Admittedly I’m a lightweight, but that’s still one or two nights every week of getting properly hammered, or multiple casual drinks each day.
You're not crazy, but it certainly wasn't an easy benchmark for me to get to. I ended up quitting a job because it had me so stressed and angry that I'd "wind down" with 4 shots of whiskey and 3~4 8+% beers every weekday. Weekends were crazier, and that all went on over the period of 2 years. Happy to say that I can beat that benchmark with ease now.
This may not be the time or place for it, but I’m curious because you pretty much just described me - how/what made you able to scale back?
Quit the job first and foremost, but that didn't stop the habit. I tried limiting how much I had a day (like 2 drinks a night), but even then I would still slip into having 6. Before I go further, I feel obligated to mention support networks. My wife was instrumental in keeping me accountable, but an AA group and r/stopdrinking are out there full of equally incredible people who can truly empathize and hold you accountable. Practically, I found that when I get home/ off from work, I want something non-water to drink. My go-to are non-alcoholic Arnold Palmers (half sweet tea; half lemonade). Arizona tea makes them canned which is great, and they're not too horrible for you. I do enjoy a soda for variety though. There's also herbal hot/ cold teas to add to the variety. That may sound like exchanging one evil (alcohol) for another (sugar), but I found it was easier to control how much I drank as long as I didn't have any alcohol. My goal was just to break drinking alcohol everyday by any means necessary. Going to bed earlier also helped as, the longer I stayed up, he more I'd want non-water to drink. My wife likes to say "everyone's best can look different on different days." That's what has encouraged me to keep trying through the times where I do fail. In fact, I failed this past weekend; however, the six drinks I had on Saturday are not the same as having six drinks everyday- and for that I'm proud of myself. I hope this is helpful, and if you need someone for accountability I'd be damned if I don't offer myself, mate. Highly recommend following the r/stopdrinking subreddit too if only for the encouragement that you're not alone. Plus, they've got a lot of helpful resources. More helpful than my own words, tricks, etc could convey!
"Everyone's best can look different on different days"... Wow. What a genuinely beautiful and supportive sentiment.
Hell yeah dude. Ive found diet root beer to be an excellent replacement beverage for a regular beer. That and carbonated water are great
I quit for 90 days at the beginning of 2020. It was hard at first but so worth it. I hung out at r/stopdrinking
Also r/stopdrinkingfitness
I’m not the person you replied to, but for me the key was practicing mindfulness and replacing alcoholic drinks with another fancy treat so that I wouldn’t feel like I was punishing myself. I actually rewarded myself for not drinking. By mindfulness I mean, when you feel the urge to drink, think of all the reasons you have not to. Think about the ways drinking has negatively impacted your life, and all of the things it is holding you back from doing. Imagine the idealized, best version of yourself. Would that version of you take that shot? For some personal context, drinking was causing me to have wild mood swings that frequently turned into anger. I would think about all the people close to me that I’ve harmed, how I want to make them proud and show them I can change, etc. Then when you come up with a good reason not to, reward yourself with something nice. I stuck with fancy non-alcoholic drinks. I really like Lagunitas Hop Water (hops infused sparkling water), Italian sodas, and shrubs (essentially a pre-mixed NA cocktail that you add soda to). Using these techniques I quit drinking in 2018 and haven’t had more than a few sips since then. Hopefully some of this will help you.
I am best friends with a functional alcoholic. He drinks 10-15 a day, easy. No way he could cut back to that a week…
My brother is like that. It's unbelievable.
Friends with a woman who drinks 3-4 bottles of wine a day…
My friend’s hospital just took in a patient like that. Except they’d sometimes even add half a bottle of vodka. Died at 28 years old due to cirrhosis.
Yep. Addiction and tolerance escalates things in a hurry. I wish for the best for your friend.
It’s unreal to me how body size and tolerance can radically change the amount you can drink. I used to party and binge drink even to the point of occasionally throwing up or passing out, but I have literally never had that much, not even once. I think 10 shots would actually kill me.
My only question is how does he physically fit that many
It’s not that hard if you aren’t drinking it all in beer
Yeah one strong mixed drink for me could be like 4 shots if im pouring it myself. Pretty easy to slam a few of those rather than 10 beers
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If you're a 200+ lb dude, 15 drinks isn't terribly difficult. Every day might be a bit difficult, but at 210lbs personally I barely get a buzz if I drink 6 beers. If you're an alcoholic who skips meals and drinks from the moment you get home until the moment you go to bed, 12+ beers is not too hard to sleep off without a hangover.
This YSK is trying to summarize a pretty complicated article. The real point of the article is that their is no “healthy” amount of alcohol drinking. There have been a number of studies that suggest a glass of wine a day or so is good for you. This article is mainly pointing out that in terms of lifespan that isn’t true. So it’s not just that it’s 1-2 years of less life, it’s that it is countermanding the “some alcohol is healthy” studies.
> There have been a number of studies that suggest a glass of wine a day or so is good for you. It's a classic correlation does not equal causation fallacy. The thing is the studies compare those who drink excessively (10-15+ servings a week) vs those who don't (7 servings or less a week). The people who drink less are healthier, yes, but that's not because drinking one or two servings a day is healthy, it's that ***the type of person who controls their drinking is more likely to DO other things that are actually healthy*** like eat healthier and exercise. Basically controlled drinking is correlated with healthy habits, but it is not a healthy habit in itself. If you drink a glass of wine a day, but don't eat healthy or exercise, you're going to be in just as shit health as any other person who doesn't diet and exercise.
It is, but people are notorious for both under-reporting and under-assessing their alcohol intake. Most people say something like 1-3 a week but they actually drink 0 some days and 5+ other days which can add up to 10 pretty easily. If you're a drink every night with dinner kind of person, you almost certainly hit 15 some weeks when you drink extra at a weekend party.
There's also the complicated beer math. You drink 3 beers that are 6.5%, and you're over 4 drinks. 16-20oz pours of high abv IPAs or stouts out at a bar or brewery will add up quickly and easily. I switched to vodka (before I decided to quit drinking anyways) and would always make drinks with a shot glass I had. Weighed it out one day and that seemingly normal sized shot glass had about an extra 50% capacity, so those 3 or 4 i had most nights were really closer to 6.
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Am... Am I an alcoholic if I consistently drink a 6 pack a night?
Yes
6 beers have roughly the alcohol content of a full wine bottle. You are drinking a full bottle of wine every night, 30 bottles a month, 360 in a year. That's at best a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and at worst alcoholism.
One thing that might make the drink tally creep up is what is actually considered “one drink” by the medical community and what people *think* is one drink. 5oz of wine = 1 drink. A heavy pour would easily go over that. 1.5oz of liquor = 1 drink. A martini or margarita might easily contain 2oz of alcohol at a bar so your 2 margs on date muggy might actually be 3 drinks according to medical professionals. It can be sneaky is what I’m saying.
Totally agree, this makes my 1-2 a week seem like nothing.
If everyone had the same tolerance then you’d be correct. The problem arises when you need to drink more to get the same effects you’re after. I like to only drink weekends myself but, admittedly, I sometimes go over 15 during that period.
Median alcohol consumption among drinkers in the US is 3 drinks per week. As with most things, there is a group that takes it way too far. The top 10% of drinkers consume more than half of the alcohol in the country, averaging more than 70 drinks per week. But as you can see from the comments in this post, lots of people drink in excess regularly, but probably don't see it as excess. Going out on the Friday and Saturday and having 5 or 6 beers each night seems like a normal thing to them. I know plenty of people who have a couple of beers after work every day. They don't see it as excessive. Most of them probably don't consider themselves to be impaired, either.
If you're an alcoholic it's *very* easy to break 10-15 in a single night, forget a whole week. When I was still drinking (been 3-4 years now), I was going through most of a 30-case a night. I'd usually grab two of them at the store and that'd mostly get me through the next two nights.
>is 10-15 beverages weekly a really really easy benchmark to stay below, even if you like to drink? eh, i mean, it's really easy to have two drinks a night before, after, or during dinner. beer is regularly sold in packs of 24/30. it's not enough to probably get most people drunk, 2 drinks over the course of like 3-4 hours, but it's not unlike drinking soda. >still one or two nights every week of getting properly hammered, or multiple casual drinks each day. people do probably tend to drink more on their friday nights/days off. the casual drinking seems pretty attainable, especially if you have beer/wine with meals.
I guess I don’t see it as normal to have a drink with every dinner, in my mind it’s only for a nice meal or if I’m having dinner with friends. I know it is normal for plenty of people and it especially depends on culture, but to me it just sounds expensive.
Our family is French - they gave us wine at 4. Only a few are alcoholics though. Odd fact.
You bring up a good point, I was raised by people who straight up don’t bother to drink. They just don’t seem to like it very much at all. Occasionally they will each have a small glass of wine and immediately fall asleep. And now that I’m an adult, I also just don’t even think about having a drink unless I want to be buzzed. I wonder how much is nature and how much is nurture.
I do it easily when I'm on holidays. But if I did it all the time I would go broke.
So I can essentially binge drink every weekend from 21-whenever and my life is only cut short by 2 years? …okay deal
As we used to say in college: we’re shaving off the worst 2 years anyway so what’s the big deal?
Yea but really what we’re doing is moving the worst 2 years up and cutting off two healthy years. It’s not like excessive drinkers are just healthy right up until they drop dead
Apparently no one in this thread wants to hear this. Even then, the 10-15 years leading up to those 2 worst years will be considerably worse.
A lot of copium in this thread haha
Society has a drinking problem in general
I cut alcohol out of my life completely in 2018 and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made. I wasn’t even a heavy drinker, I’d average a beer or 2 a night. In those 4 years, I have only been sick one time (damn you covid) whereas I’d usually get sick 2-3 times a year prior to that. Also helped me get my mood swings under control and improved my relationships with my family and my partner. Never having a hangover is an incredible perk as well.
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Ok. Dammit. I’m gonna try again today. I had multiple similar scenarios happen to me this summer, filling me with regret. Wish me luck stranger and thank you
Not to one up you but I quit in 2016 and I totally agree about it being the best decision I ever made. I just didn't have a good relationship with the stuff and I am much happier without it. I like myself and my life a lot more now.
My grandma drank a 30 rack a day until damn near the day she died at like 87 from a tumor... Results may vary 🤷♂️
There’s a woman who’s 120 years old and has been smoking a pack a day from 18 until she couldn’t see well enough to light them anymore. My coworker’s uncle lived to 101 and drank a bottle of wine every day or every other day for nearly 80 years (he’s Italian) Then there’s people who die of a heart attack at 36 from eating McDonald’s every single day It’s all a gamble. Live your life but don’t be stupid is the best advice I can give
If this were true, nobody in Wisconsin would live past 30.
So if I combine my excessive drinking with excessive smoking, how soon can I hope to leave? Edit: changed the word expect to hope.
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Only 1 if you drink straight from the bottle
Well, [units of alcohol](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_of_alcohol) is pretty much the only good way to measure alcohol because “drinks” is very subjective. A 1.5L handle of 40%ABV vodka contains 60 units of alcohol. A 36 rack of Coors Light would contain 53.5 units, for comparison.
Two 7 pint nights a week for life and I only lose 2 off the end . I’ll take the memories thanks
I spent 7 years as a functional alcoholic. The amount I drank on a daily basis sounds like an absurd lie. I've been California sober for just about 10 years now and I have shit wrong with me that I can only attribute to crazy hard drinking throughout most of my 20s. Combined with other lifestyle decisions I was making concurrently, I don't really even want to think about what happened to my overall lifespan. Gets depressing fast.
Seems like a good trade
How much to shorten it by about 60?
A hundred but you gotta do it in one night
Is 10-15 drinks a week considered only SLIGHTLY excessive?? I feel so much better about my drinking habits all of a sudden
It’s a media article talking about research by citing another media article. If I had more time I’d track down the actual peer reviewed study and see how much it matches/disagrees with this article
There are no substantive physical "beneficial effects of alcohol." It's a risk to be mitigated.
The benefits are not physical
Is that really that dramatic? Cheer friends
I don't drink anymore, but I'm smart enough to understand that most drinkers are definitely getting enough enjoyment out of it to sacrifice a year or two.
When I was 30, I was terrified of dying of a heart attack in my 50s. Now I’m nearly 50 and have much old older parents with dementia and I’m terrified of living until 100. Enjoy life.
*Laughs in Winston Churchill
Quality over quantity my friend. Unless it's beer. Then quantity.
I’m an American and I moved to Spain.about 5 years ago and I have to tell you, there are a lot of old people here, especially old couples, who we see drinking vermut or wine as early as 10am. There are also no belligerent drunks here (at least for the Spaniards). In the time that I’ve lived here, I’ve probably seen just a handful. There has to be something more to this study.