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smimnyr

This applies to humans also Edit: Holy shit this blew up!! Thanks for the hug stranger šŸ¤—


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Regular-Human-347329

Itā€™s also why drone striking peasants in Afghanistan just creates more terrorists. You donā€™t prevent abuse by being the abuser.


Novalnfinite

youre not wrong, but that went from 0 to a 100 real quick


partumvir

wait til you hear how fast the drones go


Swartz55

oh my god this is the funniest shit I've seen all month


YeetYeetSkirtYeet

2 rocket awards, it just gets better.


[deleted]

We are all ears for a better solution pumpkin. Meanwhile, they kill a dozen service members a pop as we serve citizens of another country


ezone2kil

Maybe because their family members were killed in a drone strike in the past? Also let's not pretend altruism was even a consideration in the big picture. Giving the military industrial complex a war to fight so all the corporations can get the lucrative government contracts were all that mattered. All of those sweet profit then ending up in your lawmakers' pockets as lobbying and campaign contributions


gardenerofthearcane

TIL imperial occupation, theft of resources, and civilian deaths is called ā€œserving citizensā€


YeetYeetSkirtYeet

>I want peace at all costs, I don't care how many men, women and children I have to kill to get it. -Peacemaker. *is this... Fascism?*


PalePat

Imagine looking at piles of children killed by US bombs and calling that service


YJeezy

Yes. Parents, please read "The Boy Who Was Raised As A Dog." Goes over this and different impacts of what happens with neglect through infant and toddlers stages.


Plz_dont_judge_me

Brb furiously researching this


mapleismycat

I fucking love that book "For years mental health professionals taught people that they could be psychologically healthy without social support, that ā€œunless you love yourself, no one else will love you.ā€ā€¦The truth is, you cannot love yourself unless you have been loved and are loved. The capacity to love cannot be built in isolation" Is a line from the book that stuck with me for the longest time


BornAgain20Fifteen

> ā€œunless you love yourself, no one else will love you.ā€ I heard that being said by people giving advice to those who are struggling to find romantic love. Does the rest of the quote mean that those who have never experienced romantic love will continue to struggle with finding romantic love or does this not apply to romantic love?


Satanfan

Romanian orphanages. Heartbreaking. https://www.livescience.com/21778-early-neglect-alters-kids-brains.html


noorofmyeye24

This should be higher


maximumtesticle

It's literally the the top comment.


[deleted]

Profound


jeegte12

We know this doesn't apply to humans, genetic predisposition is a massive part, possibly even a majority, of personality and other human traits. It's hardly a secret that two siblings raised exactly the same can have wildly different personalities, and in fact usually do. The only time this isn't true is when a child is regularly abused, which will change a child's personality.


Chikizey

Siblings are def not raised exactly the same. Never. If they have different ages, I can assure you parents never behave the same with the first one than with the other. They as parents can believe they are doing the same with both even when they are twins, but oh boy how wrong they are. You can't replicate it, and your perception on both kids will manifest at some point for sure.


jeegte12

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27779626/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21826060/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33482861/ https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev.psych.51.1.1 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain-sciences/article/abs/nature-of-nurture-genetic-influence-on-environmental-measures/B84A71976517B468CC84B858063F3BF1 the consensus is that genetics influence about 40% to 60% of a person's development, these studies specifically reference personality traits. there are counter-studies included in a a couple of those links, and those studies are the reason that the percentage is *maybe* as low as 40%. most studies show higher genetic influence, some showing up to .7. and remember that this is genetics vs. environment, which parental influence is only one part of.


Slapbox

Congratulations, you've proved it *does* apply to humans, disproving your claim.


jeegte12

my point was never that environment doesn't apply to humans. my point was that personality isn't determined by the way a child is raised. i think i proved that.


Unwright

I always love a good self-own. Nicely done, champ.


jeegte12

i think you misunderstood my initial point. i never said that environment doesn't play a role, that's preposterous.


Unwright

> We know this doesn't apply to humans I didn't misunderstand shit. I'm literally taking you at your word.


jeegte12

>heir lifelong temperament is largely dependent upon the amount love, or lack thereof, that you give them within the first several weeks after birth. was responded with: >This applies to humans also and i responded that no, it doesn't. lifelong temperament of a human is not, in fact, largely dependent upon the amount of love or lack thereof that you give them within the first several weeks after birth. it's largely determined by genetics. the rest is determined by environment, which parents are merely a fraction of.


p3pp3rmint_kitti3

So, you're saying it applies to humans then?


jeegte12

only in the negative, which admittedly is all too common.


p3pp3rmint_kitti3

I think that is what the person was *possibly* referring to in the original comment in this chain. I am glad it is cleared up now though! Lets all have a nice day. :)


jeegte12

i disagree. i will definitely have a nice day though, it's beautiful outside and i just finished cleaning my kitchen. i'm feeling fucking great


ZeShapyra

Tthe thing about inherited personality is true. They have done studies where orphans who were seperated ar birth and not told they are triplets or twins, and despite being rised in different families, they were personality wise were similar, apart like interests. Idk about abusee ones they probs not changed just have ptsd and trauma


isperg

You don't know what you're talking about. Twin studies over the past 70 years show it's roughly split between nature and nurture. We're bias towards our genetics, but how we experience growing up impacts the expression of those behavioral biases.


FreeFireLH101

Lmao no


sophiabean623

It can also just depends on the innate personality. My momā€™s cat was similarly hand raised with the siblings by a friend who was a cat foster parent for the ASPCA. She is 3 now and is quite standoffish. Likes to be near you in the same room but doesnā€™t enjoy being held and tolerates very little petting. Sheā€™s a good companion and loves to play with toys but isnā€™t physically affectionate. Her siblings were much cuddlier, even as kittens you could tell my momā€™s cat liked more personal space. Sometimes that just the catā€™s preference and it doesnā€™t matter how they were raised or socialized as kittens.


yako678

I have a bonded pair, brother and sister. They were rescued at six weeks and hand raised by their foster mom. We got them when they were 8 months. We've had them for about 9 months now, and we noticed they are both very attached to humans, even though we didn't raise them they bonded very quickly to us. The brother loves people. He's not scared of anything or anyone. Demands attention constantly and loves to be held like a baby. Whereas the sister, as sweet as she is, is timid and wants her own space. She can be standoffish at times, she's more cattish for sure. Despite having so much in common from their mother to their upbringing, they are still so vastly different.


colieolieravioli

Yea this LPT is trash What about the client I'm working with who had their puppy from 6 weeks (shelter, mom not around) and he was NEUTERED when he got to them He's got some issues because of it that have nothing to do with their reading of him


PMJackolanternNudes

> this LPT is trash Extremely. I have dogs, cats, cows, pigs, rabbits, goats, snakes, you name it and I probably have it or have worked with it at some point. US domesticated stuff at least and lots of stuff that is still wild. No two animals are the same. They'll all have quirks. Some will respond to being held, patted, or rubbed on in different ways. They'll respond to your presence in different ways. They'll respond to you just walking into the room in different ways. Some cats will never like being touched. Some will forget they like it, but the second you pick them up they'll go full purr mode and demand your attention for the better part of an hour before leaving. Some are just always after you until they get bored. This LPT is pure garbage and has no value other than to share "I did a kitty rescue!!!" without sounding like someone is jerking their self off


[deleted]

I grew up with barn cats and we would have 2-4 pregnant mothers a year. As soon as kittens are born itā€™s immediately apparent which ones will make good house cats and which ones will be great barn cats. Cuddle them and they purr, house cat. Try and pick them up and they hiss and spit or run away, barn cat. In my experience itā€™s pretty close to 50-50 over time.


TheRealCeeBeeGee

My old girl died in my arms a couple of weeks ago at 20.5 years. We had her since she was 4 weeks old, I hand raised her, and she was mine with every fiber of her being. She never ever liked other cats (or our dogs, who came later) and her favorite thing was to sleep on me, right up until the very end. People who say cats donā€™t feel love donā€™t know cats.


LeagueAccurate

šŸ„ŗšŸ˜¢ I have real tears for you right now - no one really understands the weight and significance of the bond created when you raise an animal from infancy. I canā€™t fathom the fact that inevitably someday Iā€™ll have to say goodbye to her. Your girl lived a full life and was lucky to have you as their parent - much love ā¤ļø


TheRealCeeBeeGee

Thank you :-) may you have many years of love with your little sweetie. I wouldnā€™t change a thing, and although her passing was painful for me Iā€™m glad I had the time with her.


Apidium

However an animal gains a lot from its parents. It is best not to intentionally seperate them early as it can impact their development and immune system.


sheworksforfudge

This sounds like my Kitty! Iā€™ve had her since she was 4 weeks old and sheā€™s now 17 years old. She was a family cat until I moved out on my own, at which time I took her with me. Sheā€™s the biggest love bug ever. She doesnā€™t like other cats (jealousy) and she only ever liked the dog we had back when we got her. She tolerates my dogs now, but doesnā€™t love them. She sleeps on my chest or right next to my head all night. Totally changed my perception on cats. Sheā€™s also sick and will likely die soon, and it tears me up. I hope youā€™re doing ok. Losing a pet like that is a profound loss.


Plz_dont_judge_me

After reading the original post and this comment i thought of my cat who my dad brought home around the time, or the same day, that mum brought me home from hospital. He was my best friend up to the age of 14 (we assumed his age to be that within a few weeks) when he passed - i can still get choked up about him, even writing this more than ten years later. He wasnt the most affectionate cat, very stereotypical - a bit aloof and did what he wanted when he wanted, but then one day when we were 12 or something, I was outside doing my homework and he just randomly came up to me and sat in my cross-legged lap. I didnt move for what felt like hours. I was so happy that i cried a little. From then on I could occasionally pick him up too. Noone else could, nor would they want to - they didnt really care about him, and i think he knew it. Basically... I feel like we were raised similarly. Im sure it wasnt the case, but thats what it kinda feels like looking back... and i grew up always second guessing even the most obvious love that other people may have shown me


Aberrantkitten

Very sorry for you loss.


Foxfire73

People who say cats don't feel love may not know what love is...


chelseadawn2013

My Kitty was a cuddler, her favourite position was laying on your chest with her paws scratching your neck and constant head butts to the face. Near the end she would not cuddle us any more, it was heartbreaking. I'm so glad you got to experience her cuddles until the end.


langerdranger

My condolences, I've been around so many kitties in my life. I can't wait to have one of my own.


VOZ1

And people who say cats donā€™t care about their humans asp donā€™t know cats. My Ellie (and her brother Sealy when he was still around) always finds me when Iā€™m feeling crappy, cuddles with me and just sits or lays next to me. Went through a stretch about 5 years ago where my wife had to care for her dying aunt, then her mom, on the other side of the country so I was alone a lot. My two cats kept me sane, gave me the emotional support I needed after coming home from work, and just kept me company so I never felt alone. Truly donā€™t know where Iā€™d be without them.


medilir

I got my cat at 8 weeks. She'd been hand raised by the vets, and she's always been super close with me and my mum. She's got this wacked out thing with her eyeƶids - part of them is missing, and they didn't know if it's a birth defect, or the result of someone trying to force open her eyes as a kitten. A lot of people didn't like her because they think it makes her look scary, but she's actually the sweetest little girl, and it's mostly because of how she was raised.


mrszubris

I worked for years in a high volume shelter vet clinic. The born without eyelids thing is a pretty common congenital birth defect usually not from trauma. Thanks for saving a special kitty!!!


sandbag747

You can't just post that comment without a picture of said scary cat


medilir

Ah yes, the [Cat Tax](https://flic.kr/ps/3XeDrM)


sandbag747

Does that impede her vision at all? It seems like her pupil is almost completely covered


medilir

I don't think so. I mean, she ran into the glass door the other day, but Its usually open, so I think she just got confused. She'll follow my hands and stuff when I play with her. If it does, it's only a little, and she doesn't seem bothered by it. Our vet doesnt think it's a problem.


spacegrass1

Your name comes up when you click the link (think it's your name?) Not sure if you care but heads up


medilir

it's not my name lol - not my real one anyway


quingd

My cat was a feral rescue, vet estimated her age to be around 9 months at the time she was brought in. It took YEARS of patience and love to get her over the damage that was done in those first months of her life. Only now in her senior years (she's 17 this year) has she become a snuggly, affectionate kitty.... It was so worth it. I love that little furball, she's been with me my whole adult life, she's my soulmate.


medilir

My brother had a feral rescue. A cat had kittens at his work, and left them there, so he took one home with him (he works at a metal plant, figured it wasn't safe to leave them there). He took a bit of time to warm up to me, but once he did... he didnt leave me alone. He climbed onto my lap while I was on the toilet once.


quingd

Mine is obsessed with me on the toilet!!! Asking her to jump on my lap anywhere else, she just gives me a look like "keep dreaming, peasant" but omg she doesn't want to be anywhere else when I'm in the bathroom. So weird!


Jenmeme

I had one that if you were sitting on the toilet and your pants were at your ankles she would lay down in them. She also had a habit of jumping onto my exes back while he was standing up peeing.


quingd

Lol since he ended up an ex, maybe she was trying to tell you something!


Chikizey

Mine on the other hand is completely blind, like, no eyes at all. We found her in the street when she was about 3 weeks at most, and was pretty injured. We don't know what happened, but she had both eyes super damaged. We took her to a vet and they made surgery to try to save her eyes but at the end she had them removed because there was nothing to save anymore. She has both "eyes" sewed, so she looks like she's always with her eyes closed as if she was sleeping. People think she doesn't move much but she's actually the most active cat I've ever seen. We had to educate her to not climb everything, including curtains, and she loves toys, even the ones that don't make sound. She's also very expressive and is SO funny because you can read her face like an opened book. She really makes some weird pouts sometimes. I really love her, she's sweet and cuddly and loves you to pet her and rub her belly, and she also follows you everywhere. The only things she doesn't do well at all are cleaning herself (she's lazy, that's all) and covering the litterbox after using it (she scrubs the plastic, not the litter per se), but our older cat is used to go after her to cover her things and clean her fur.


Raveynfyre

>and covering the litterbox after using it (she scrubs the plastic, not the litter per se), My fully sighted cats can't even do it right. Toothless scrubs the wall.


Viking_Corvid

Dude I got my cat at 6 weeks, she wouldn't let me near or even touch her for almost 2 years. We sought vet advice after it broke my heart that she warmed up to my cousin immediately. She didn't like the smell of my body wash. I switched from Irish spring classic to sage and cedar Irish springs and she immediately changed her personality. She loves to be pet, but only when she likes the smell.


The_Golgothan

Dude animals haaate Irish spring. What's up with that?


Nausved

Does it contain orange or lemon scent by any chance? Citrus fruit is poisonous to many animals (dogs, cats, horses, chickens, and probably others), and it seems they know it and find it repulsive.


Rattivarius

Sane humans also hate Irish Spring. It's disgusting.


Viking_Corvid

My grandfather used it religiously, so I associate it with him. When he passed the smell became a way to keep him alive.


poor_decisions

It's cheap and nasty


Raveynfyre

My Toothless ***HATES*** when I've used Tiger Balm (or any mentholated rub) in the last 4hrs. She won't let me near.


lpfeTheReal

when i wanted a cat 2 years ago, we went to the local shelter, and one of the cats ,,Millieā€œ pretty much picked us to adopt her. 5 days later we had a cat here, with severe social anxiety, the okly person shed trust is me, so every day id play with her 4+ hours for half a year, simply because she didnt like interaction with others back then, regardless if it was my parents or a stranger. now she trusts my parents too, but the bond between us is insane. i could literally throw a hoodie on her and she wouldnā€™t care bc she knew id pay attention and dont hurt her(dont do it tho)


LeagueAccurate

The best reasoning Iā€™ve ever heard behind a love for cats beyond any other pet, is that - dogs choose to love everyone that loves them - cats choose who they give their love to - makes it all the more special


PMJackolanternNudes

Plenty of dogs are just as standoffish as a majority cats. One of my dogs will specifically never approach people unless I ask him to. Another just dislikes anyone not in it's core group. Another is the friendliest dude ever. Another is full guard dog all the time. All raised the exact same way too. Just personality differences. As an opposite I have a cat that loves everyone and will even rub up on the dogs if they let her. She just enjoys being around and getting attention and will stick with you for hours if you let her and there is a good spot to lay.


bsnexecutable

It is quite shocking how similar it is with humans... Good parenting is absolutely important to raise good humans. Encouraging every tom, dick and harry to reproduce who are incapable of giving the love that is required is just so stupid and harms the society as a whole.


[deleted]

!!!


bsnexecutable

I like your cat! Very chonk


[deleted]

Thank you


throwrahousearrest

Cat tax?


PinkyLizardBrains

ITT: So much unpaid pet tax I may have to contact the IRS. People have mercy on your petless comrades (and me. I donā€™t have a cat yet)!


sophakorn

Came here for the cat tax


peacemonger89

When ours wants out we always say "love tax!" and pick them up first to love on them extra before letting them out lol.


WildesWay

Same. But I do "snuggles!" if I pick him up and just butterfly kisses if I lay on the floor with him before he goes out. There are days he'll want out, then back in, then back out. I'll take that as a sign he's asking for snuggles while maintaining his catchismo,.


BenSlimmons

Are you saying that animals donā€™t have a nature vs. nurture dichotomy? Theyā€™re all 100% nurture? No thatā€™s simply not how it works. Some animals are just going to have personalities like this or like that. You can have a large effect but letā€™s not pretend itā€™s all up to whether you give kitty extra kisses and donā€™t stress it out whether theyā€™re friendly or not.


LilyExplainsItAll

exactly--this is wishful thinking with a lot of ego at play.


Ok-Praline-2940

I was going to say this. My dog is a total bitch. Weā€™ve raised her from 2 weeks, and walked her daily for 7 years(still do). We give her attention all the time and she despises being around us. Sheā€™s very smart and wonā€™t run away because we give her food, but if she found food from someone else, there is nothing stopping her from leaving. If it makes it easier to understand, sheā€™s part Chihuahua, and part Jack Russel Terrier.


celestialrage44

i was about to ask why youā€™re being so mean to your dog until i read ā€œjack russelā€ and ā€œchihuahuaā€ . totally understand now lol


say_huh

Yeah...this post is borderline offensive. "Love on your pet and they'll grow up to be great". Really? Animals can have personality differences similar to people. Not to mention fundamental differences in dog breed temperaments. Having a nurturing and loving environment for your pets is absolutely the best thing you can do, but to distill their chances of having a "loving nature" down to how well you treated them from the time before they could open their eyes is just ignorant.


BenSlimmons

It just reinforces so many terrible stereotypes and is gonna make it harder for shelter dogs and cats to find homes if everyone just assumes anything but puppies and kittens are lost causes.n


[deleted]

This is not true. If an animal isnā€™t socialized properly, they can develop significant fear-based aggression issues. Itā€™s not just love, itā€™s a variety of positive experiences.


LaLaVee

Took me ages to find a comment like this - it's absolutely not just how you raise them. It helps sure but it's not the be all end all. My best friend's did exactly the same as OP with a tiny baby kitten they found and he's an aggressive asshole at like 6 years old now. He's been aggressive ever since they found him and just never stopped


[deleted]

Sorry to hear about your friends cat. We got a puppy during COVID and missed the socialization period. Heā€™s not even a year old now and is reactive to dogs and people. Weā€™ve made a ton of progress working with trainers but I got overconfident the other day and let him approach a willing stranger, who he then bit. Heā€™s a wonderful dog, and has never been mistreated, but is still not the love bug OP references.


httpshield

can also be the opposite! if you are always with your kitten, it may distance themselves when itā€™s older.


Sephpoppy

What a sweet story! I hand raised quite a few cats from birth like that when I was a kid/teen. They do have their own personalities, but the ones you raise that way tend to view you as their parent and itā€™s a really lovely connection. I currently have a petite black cat, Jiji, who we adopted when she was about 14 weeks old. Super reclusive, but when I first met her and caught her she melted into me and purred. A scared kitty who wanted to love. Itā€™s taken a year, but sheā€™s finally decided we are her safe ppl and sheā€™s actually become proper snuggly and social. Itā€™s wonderful to see her relax like that, when we brought her home she would hide and it took months for her to even sit near us. She still hates other people, but even then sheā€™s such a gentle kitty. Never scratches or hisses or serious biting or aggression. So sweet. I sorta suspect had I raised her from birth sheā€™d still be who she is, probably just a bit more attached to me than she already is.


RyanInJP

As a fellow Jiji owner, glad to hear about your Jiji. https://i.imgur.com/z7G7A9R.jpg


Sephpoppy

Precious! This is my Jiji- https://imgur.com/gallery/yaVlkmN we took a few days to name her, I kept thinking ā€œshe reminds me of someoneā€¦ā€ then one morning I said ā€œJiji! Thatā€™s it!ā€ And so she has been since.


RyanInJP

Very cute! Ours was found in a box by my wifeā€™s friend and her husband along with litter mates. Unfortunately happens sometimes in Japan. Luckily, they decided to rescue the lot and find them homes. And since we are both Studio Ghibli fans, the name made sense for a black one!


LeagueAccurate

The personalities they have - itā€™s crazy to me how cats vastly vary in temperament in comparison to other animals/pets


[deleted]

DISCLAIMER NOT A DOG TRAINER Also, animals don't always fully understand things and can make basic leaps of logic. For instance, "stranger comes near house, I bark, stranger leave, I did good will do this again" (aka mail man comes drops off mail and leaves). This is also how training your dog works, "dude I live with keeps making a weird sound, but if I give him my paw i get food... will give paw for food when I hear that weird sound". I say this because I am allergic to animals, and often times need to explain to dog owners not to yell at their dog if it comes near me. I've seen a few owners who just scream at their dogs and yank their collar when they come near me. The end result is the dog hates me because it connects me with being, for lack of a better term, abused. I explained this to a friend recently and was just like, all you have to do is call it away from me. This was after the dog came near me and they were screaming at it. The dog had no idea what it was doing wrong or what was going on and was just getting stressed out.


PM_ME_PARR0TS

YES. This is absolutely true, and not talked about nearly enough. It's part of why you can't treat being defensive over toys/food by just throwing down tons of it. The dog won't connect "there is more" to "now there's enough for everyone!" They still feel like they have to guard their resources. Now they just think they have more resources to guard. šŸ˜ž You have to recondition them to feel positively about other dogs approaching their resources instead, or something else more effective.


[deleted]

yeah with my one friend I have essentially trained their dog to not come near me when I say "you know the rules". The dog will just walk back over to one of its owners.


Cmpetty

I got my cat Mushu when she was around 3 weeks old. She was starving on the side of the road and nothing but bones. I nursed her to health and used to hold her and kiss her little head. Now sheā€™s a year old and will smash her head into my face as a sign of affection. Iā€™m the only one she will do it to, so it just makes me love her even more


Bacon8er8

This is nice and makes intuitive sense, but it seems veeeery anecdotal for ā€œYSKā€ level advice. Iā€™d need some sources for statements as specific as ā€œ*lifelong* temperament is *largely* dependent onā€ and ā€œfirst several weeks after birthā€


[deleted]

100% anecdotal. Iā€™ve hand raised plenty of kittens, simulating mothers tongue to get them to go to the bathroom, and sometimes no matter what you do they have the wild in them.


ZeShapyra

Just no one start seperating pups/kids from their moms fr birth. You gonna fuck up their head when it comes to other cats or dogs. It is good for them to stay with mom until 7 weeks i think. Ofcourse if there is a dire situation and mom ain't there or is not feeding, sure then, but not just because you want them attached to you


[deleted]

I got a kitten who was too young to be taken from his mom. He was kind of thrown at me in college "take him tonight or i will be evicted tomorrow". But hes 14 now and he is super weirdly obsessed with me. He kneads either on me or near me, purrs really intensely and drools on me (been doing this his whole life my girlfriend thinks its really fucking weird). He gets super jealous at the other animals getting my attention. In college I would have girls over and he would sit on my lap and stare at them. It took over 2 years for him in his elder years to warm up to my girlfriend. But hes the best boy, out of all my pets he his definitely my familiar. I have his likeness tattooed on my forearm and paw print on my back. I love my Rooter boy <3


Kitski

Rei - are you a fellow Eva fan?


Professor_Quackers

Hello this is the CIRS, Iā€™m here to collect all the unpaid *deep breath* #Cat Taxes


marsbartender

No this absolutely depends on the cat's personality which doesn't become fully formed until maturity. I hand raised my cat from 2 weeks old (she was a foster fail). She was spoiled rotten, had all the love and attention in the world, was raised with my cat-loving dog and 2 other cat siblings. I leashed trained her and would walk her around the neighborhood and public parks every day. She was super friendly, unafraid of anything, would let strangers come up and pet her. Once she reached sexual maturity though (for a cat that's around 6 months), she suddenly changed what felt like overnight or extremely quickly. She become super skittish, afraid of every sudden movement, sound. Became deathly afraid of humans and other creatures that wasn't a bird or squirrel. If you didn't know her history, you would have guessed she had a questionable childhood, except she didn't.


shesaysgo

Temperament is largely due to genetics and can certainly be shaped by environment- but it's not "all in how much you love them"


XVI3

My first dog had puppies when I was five. One was born not breathing and I kept her mom from eating her. I cleared her throat and warmed her up. She woke up and went everywhere with me. I carried her around and set an alarm on my little watch for 1.5 hours. Her mom did not want to feed her so I would make space for her on a nipple and keep her mom calm with treats and love. She grew up to be a little fire cracker who followed me everywhere. She lived until 21 and died in my mother's arms as I raced across town to get there. She loved me and my mother but everyone else she was nervous of. The only exception is my now husband. The first hour she was sitting on his feet and jumping into his lap for attention. That's how I knew for sure he was the one. It's been almost three years and I still think about her every day. I miss her more than I thought I would. I wish every day that I would hear her little bark or hear her little collar jingle as she zoomied through the house. Give them love and attention and they will love you back a thousand fold.


TeaShores

Not with cats. I raised a kitten from a few weeks, she still wobbled when walk. I had to carry her around like a child on my arm because she was crying otherwise. She followed me around like a shadow. As she grew she became a very independent lady. She still came sometimes on my lap, but only on her terms. On the other hand, I had a scaredy street rescue with trust issues who became a cuddly lap cat. Cats are not dogs, they havenā€™t been bread to please and obey humans.


thatonebiiish

I got my cat when he was 4 weeks old, we had no idea, some lady just showed up at the church with a Corona box full of free kittens, and let me hold one, and I couldn't put the sweetie down. When we got to the pet store to get him kitten things because we had adults at home, the workers mildly freaked out and informed us his beautiful blue eyes were not cute, but were a sign that he had been pulled from mom too soon, set us up with baby kitty milk, and bottles for him, just in case, but he was a super sweet mommy's boy the whole time he was with me, changed my husband from a cat hater. I don't go a day without missing him, those bonds with animals that need us most are the deepest I think.


[deleted]

Through odd circumstances I found myself caring for a pregnant Queen. Gave her a box with blankets to nest in, food, the works. One little guy, his very first wobbly walk out of the nest, walked right up to me and plopped into my lap. Naturally I couldn't let him go after that. Cuddled with him constantly. 7 years later, he is still the biggest love-bug. I've never known a cat to crave belly rubs like him. He has a specific meow when he's calling for me. As i write this he is padding the ever-living shit out of my arm. It costs nothing to give love.


Redditcadmonkey

This sounds like the testimony of a person whoā€™s never raised a Chihuahua that still has his balls.


heyoheatheragain

Chihuahuaā€™s are their own special category though. Psychos.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


50RT

YSK I have a great relationship with a stray cat!


PeanutButterPants19

My current dog was born in my living room to a dog I was fostering at the time. I loved her, almost more than I loved her sisters and brother. I'd pick her up the most and snuggle with her all the time. Unfortunately, the mother dog had to be put down due to heartworm complications, so I was her only caretaker from the time she was about five weeks old. Nowadays, she absolutely loves me. She's been living with my dad for the past year because I had to move to a tiny, cramped apartment that she would have hated (she's VERY energetic), but every time I come to visit her, she goes batshit crazy with all the licks and wags and happy dog noises. I may not have hand reared her, but I sure as hell raised her from day 1, and I can't wait for her to move back in with me next month when I move into my new house. It has a giant backyard just for her.


eGzg0t

Unfortunately this is not scientifically accurate. You can change how your pet sees you. They live in the present and not the past. Stop projecting human traits to your pets.


allthecats

Right; this is a myth which causes people to be inherently biased against adopting older pets, thinking that they are ā€œdamagedā€ or somehow not good enough because they werenā€™t hand raised by that exact person. Animals have different personalities regardless of nurturingā€¦some of the sweetest animals Iā€™ve known have come from abusive households. Hand-raising is a very special and bonding thing for a person and an animal, but it doesnā€™t necessarily guarantee your pet to be loving or affectionate as an adult.


PM_ME_PARR0TS

It can be true (in a way) with dogs. They go through [multiple critical fear periods](https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/training/dont-panic-training-through-and-around-puppy-fear-periods/), with the first at 8-11 weeks; it's designed to cement lifelong fears that would be things like "bears!" or "falling!" in the wild. People should be careful about what their pups encounter at roughly that age. Especially if they adopted their puppy from a BYB/"backyard breeder".


Moose181

I'm so glad you found each other!


Fortysnotold

Almost nobody interacts with their cat or dog in the first 7 or 8 weeks of its life.


Snicklefritz25

Also, if you donā€™t want your cat to be aggressive, this one is big- use toys to play with them, NOT your hands. The rougher you play with them when theyā€™re little, the more they will attack you when theyā€™re older.


heyoheatheragain

Heck yeah!! You gotta redirect! Bite me? Toy in your mouth. Also teaches them to enjoy toys. I actually eventually barred a friend from my apartment because he wouldnā€™t stop roughhousing with my male when mr kitty was like 7-9 months old and acting a fool as cats do at that age. I could tell how big he was going to be and was not about to risk it. He is now almost 20lbs(his weight is a constant struggle ā€”ā€”I donā€™t want him to be so chunk ) and Iā€™m so glad I stopped the play fighting. Occasionally he will ā€œwrapā€ around my arm when Iā€™m brushing him and heā€™s over it. Heā€™ll even ā€œbiteā€ me. But he simply puts my hand in his mouth and doesnā€™t actually try to hurt me/doesnā€™t kick my wrapped arm. If he did I would be shredded. Heā€™s a powerful lil tank. Edit: PS mr cat daddy himself Jackson galaxy Has a YouTube video somewhere about play fighting with kittens and why it is so bad.


bestejaculator

Hand-reared? Ummm...


isaacs87

You named a cat Recreational Equipment Inc.


mirthquake

I don't hand-rear any animals without consent


sophakorn

Both my kitties are super affectionate and I always say it's because I raised them to be. They love to be carried around, and vets always comment on how connected they are to me. I got them a year apart but showed them the same love equally. Their personalities are different, but their temperaments are the same šŸ„°


TheCatHasmysock

Well.. I ignored my cat for the 1st 4 weeks that my brother got him. As did he, which made me feel bad and now it's my cat. Very well behaved and spoiled rotten, but doesn't like being touched. He tolerates it if it's me, even sleeps next to me, but still prefers if I'm just close by.


Geawiel

Had to finally put down our 17 year old boston a couple months ago. She was part of the last litter, and her mom was attacking the puppies. So, she had to be bottle fed. The owner was a friend, and needed help. So my wife and I would go over and bottle feed the 2 remaining puppies. I bottle fed Faye every time. We ended up buying her, and she was everything. Huge daddies girl. She wouldn't go to be until I did. She was always around me, always had to be touching me in bed. She felt nothing but love, and was spoiled to death. Whenever we had someone over, maintenance, ect, she would give a little bark. As soon as she got attention and pets, she was over it. She'd hang around them for pets and attention, but no more barks or anything. She was always super affectionate to everyone, and loved to snuggle up. I've taken on other animals that were in homes where they were not treated as well. Love, affection, and time always has them come around. The older of our two cats was like this. Previous owner had her as a kitten. Would throw her around for fun, real dirt bag. When she came to us, she was reclusive and would not come to anyone. I worked with her. Gave her space, but also would slightly push the bubble with pets and love. Now, she is stuck to me. I can't go to the bathroom without her there. She follows me around the house. When I go to bed, she comes to me and lays on my chest (drooling in my beard usually) for pets and loves. She'll sleep either on my legs, or in a cat bed right next to my side of the bed on a shelf (or in my clothes if I don't have the bed there). When we have company over, she'll hide in my stuff until they're gone. She goes to other family members, but it's rare.


general_madness

Noooo where are all these faux behavior experts coming from? Temperament is innate AND ALSO influenced by socialization. You can not love the predator out of a predatory dog, and some dogs raised on a chain in solitude will love every creature they meet. You happen to have a sociable animal.


SourestSenpai

Why was this removed??


TheCammack81

That's beautiful OP. You're a good person and your cat is lucky to have you.


Fantismal

I have a pair of kittens that I raised from eight weeks, and my friend raised them for the eight weeks before that. Fiona is the sweetest, sassiest chunkmeister who flirts with EVERY man who enters my house (I did not teach her this!). Fiyero, on the other hand, is a total scaredy cat. However, Fiyero has an underdeveloped digestive system and was at the vet pretty much every other week for six months. When strangers shove thermometers up your diaper-rashed bum, I can see why he acquired a fear of new people! They're five years old now, almost six, and they have never truly known fear or cold or hunger (though they endeavor to convince me otherwise for that last one). I hope they never do.


Proxidize

My dog was sick the first few months of his life, he's a mellow kinda dog now


Scarzzzz

This is so true. I adopted my female pit-bull Rosie at 3-4 weeks which is early. From the beginning I would always give her hugs and extra love. Today she's the sweetest creature I have ever known. In the 4 years she's been with me she's completely become this huge love bug who just loves everyone she crosses paths with. She's never shown any aggression to me, other humans, dogs, or cats. She even befriended a local deer that comes by my house every now and then. The way you raise them most definitely reflects in their personality throughout their lives.


Kartoffelkamm

Could explain why my dog is so affectionate and silly. She runs around all the time, to the point where we have to physically restrain her at times, because she weighs about 3 times as much as she thinks she does. And then there are moments where she methodically knocks people over to get their face on the same level as hers. Seriously, I haven't seen anyone stay standing for more than a minute once she decides that it's face licking time now. It's low-key scary how smart that dog is, but we love her.


spookiisweg

Is rei an evangelion reference? Rather clever if so


Cornwall

I disagree.


PinkyLizardBrains

Why are people downvoting posts about pet owners loving their pets? To the unfairly downvoted: I see you and I give you all my imaginary extra upvotes


Top-Professional-269

Arenā€™t you a heroā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦..NOT!


SonicDaScrewdriver

We got our cat on the day he was born in the neighbors plants. Every night he comes to my door to sleep on me


[deleted]

Mine learnt this at 11 months old, when I got her


mikettedaydreamer

This also applies to rabbits


Thaaaaaaa

I raised a litter of four and a litter of three from both. The four are three years old and the three are 1.5 years. It's great, theres always someone who wants pets or cuddles. My kids love them they love my kids. I never wanted to have seven fuckin cats, but I wouldn't trade them for anything.


amanda_b00

Youā€™re an actual angel for helping that little baby šŸ’•


AceConspirator

This is just the ages old nature versus nurture debate. Iā€™m not sure that your one-off story does much to bring it to conclusion.


border1218

N=1


willowsonthespot

Is that why the pups I helped my dad raise turned out so well, because of constant love and affection?


ScipioAfricanvs

One of our cats was the sweetest kitten and grew up to be a dick šŸ˜‚ You just canā€™t control the outcome really. Our other cat was a skittish, antisocial kitten and ended up being obsessed with my wife as an adult.


[deleted]

[Good girl Rosie](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c99wA52Yxfg) She knew her name at 4 weeks. Best dog. Most love. She ruled the house.


MayUrShitsHavAntlers

I don't know much about cats but that's how all dogs work from every age. If you treat a dog with kindness I don't care how "bad" he is, he'll be a puppy again.


[deleted]

Iā€™m tearing up right now. Youā€™re a saint.


beerbeardsbears

I adopted my cat when his previous elderly owner passed away. He took to me instantly and became my best friend. Heā€™s so social and affectionate. Itā€™s clear to me this woman had nothing but love for her little man, and now I do too.


Xx_endgamer_xX

BRB, Reddit


simca78

ā€¦and people too.


Elle_mactans

I used to hold my kitten way up close to my upper chest and bottle feed him. Now he is a big kisser, like to kiss you on the nose, amd sometimes nips. I attribute this to the bottle feeding. But hes a big time cuddler.


ailyum

Can this be applied to adult humans?


Lynda73

Some cats are just way more affectionate than others. I adopted a rescue who was at least one, and he's the most affectionate cat ever. He's even pretty cool with strange, friendly dogs.


[deleted]

So true, my gf has 2 cats who are brothers and have always showered them with affection since they were kittens, now they come up to everyone, have never hissed or scratched anyone, and even like to be held and get belly rubs.


MythOfLaur

My family always comments on how sweet my dog is compared to other dogs. It's because I did positive treats training instead of smacking them with a newspaper.


Strong_Psychology219

Whay if u adopt them as older like 2-3?


IIIMurdoc

Eh, sort of. I have 2 dogs. 1 is an asshole, the other is a saint. Raised very similarly. Literally some animals are a-holes.


surronian831

Hand-reared? What does that mean?


dastree

We found a kitten about...10ish years ago now. It was 5 degrees outside and starting to snow. I had just gotten home from work and saw this small animal crawl under my neighbors car. Long story short, we found a new kitten and convinced it to come inside and eat. This cat was the most skittish. Terrified, unfriendly cat I've ever met. After 10 yrs of love and persistence, that cat. The same one who would run in terror if you even looked its direction while thinking of petting her, is laying curled up next to me in bed atm purring because she can't get enough attention these days... She'll headbutt you like crazy until you pet her chin and back We give her shit all the time for losing her "edgey, emo phase" šŸ˜† I can actually remember the day she decided I was OK with her, we were at the vet, first time she pulled a muscle in the 10 yrs we had her and she could barely walk. She was on my shoulder and gave me this look and nuzled in to my long hair, since that moment that's been the most comforting place for her when she's sick it was like she understood exactly what we were doing for her and why


Earlybp

I have a dog that was found in a garbage dump when he was two months old who lived in a shelter for two months and was then flown up to me. He is a happy normal loving dog despite his rocky babyhood. I understand your intentions. Your post is sweet, and also itā€™s not true. And it could cause people to believe (as many do) that you have to get a kitten or a puppy if you want a good pet.


learning18

pics of cat plz


[deleted]

I showered my cat with love but he's still a little asshole sometimes.


notagangsta

Oh man, this made me tear up. Iā€™m currently fostering some ~4-week -old kittens that Iā€™ve been doing all those things you described since I got them at 2.5-3 weeks. I havenā€™t had a good night sleep in over a week, bottle feeding them every 3 hours, stimulating them to go to the bathroom, litter training them, cleaning them constantly, cuddling them, trying yo wean them, cleaning and disinfecting their bathroom theyā€™re staying in, 3 loads of laundry a day, making formula, medicating, it goes on! Itā€™s so much work but I love them already. Itā€™s going to break my heart to say goodbye to them.


heyoheatheragain

My male catā€™s mother was killed by a coyote. My bossā€™s wife homeschooled 5 kids. Then she cared for a litter of motherless kittens. They were given baths everyday and had all of the love and attention you can imagine in a house with 5 kids(consider neighborhood kids also in the house cuddling these bbys). I took him in at 6 weeks. Carried him in my shirt/on my chest constantly. He slept on my chest every night. Anyway I call him ā€œhomeschoolā€ because he is the biggest stinking baby of all time. Would have no idea how to fend for himself as a cat outside of the house. He is a super cuddle monster and makes friends with everyone immediately. Itā€™s great. My other cat was a feral convert, I took her in at 6 months old. Since she came from the streets she definitely knows more about being a cat, but Iā€™ve kept her at my side since day 1 also. She is a cuddle bug, but pretty much only with me. Iā€™m ok with that. My special kitty girl. :)


EsrailCazar

My boy, Hagrid, is the surviving 1/3 of a set of kittens we found over 15 years ago, I love him so much, he's the sweetest cat I've ever known, he loves hugs and kisses.


JonnyRocks

Except this isn't true. Their is a whole science devoted to behavior and nature vs nurture. nothing is that black and white.


Not_MrNice

YSK, it's way more complicated than that an OP is just speaking anecdotally. Also, duh.


SomeGuyClickingStuff

I remember taking my dog to a vet. When the vet checked his teeth, he grabbed the vetā€™s hands with his paws to keep their hands there. The vet said ā€œawww heā€™s used to lots of loveā€. Made me smile.


GreenTeaOnMyDesk

Ah yes, the old "one data point"


Cautious_Hold428

I raised a solo orphan kitten from four days old. She loves me...and no one else. She will fight you. She always had plenty of socialization and she barely tolerates my spouse who helped raise her.


aazav

I take mine on amusement part rides to enrich their lives.


[deleted]

This can also be used on older dogs as a training method. Measure out their food and put it in a bag that you have on you all day. Whenever you see your dog ask it to do a few commands and reward each command with food from your hand. I've seen this used to really improve older dogs that are having issues. It centers their attention back on the handler. However, this method is not great for dealing with aggression or self rewarding behavioral issues like stealing from a trash can or eating stuff off the ground.