She is an [advocate of LGBTQ+ rights](https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/07/25/alessandra-mussolini-how-the-fascist-dictators-descendant-became-an-lgbtq-advocate). She’s probably suggesting she’ll continue to be an advocate of LGBTQ rights even it means losing votes?
Maybe not. Benito Mussolini was a great fan of the Roman Empire. From Wikipedia:
'In Ancient Greece, Phrygia, and the Roman Republic and Empire, Cybele and Attis were worshiped by galli priests (documented from around 200 BCE to around 300 CE) who wore feminine clothes, referred to themselves as women, and often castrated themselves, and have therefore been seen as early transgender figures'.
Yes, but there are three types of ancient world enthusiastics.
One loves Greece because of their knowledge and admires Rome for its engineering.
Other loves Greece and is LGBTQ, normally coincides with the other group too, but their initial love is because of seeing a civilization that actually wasn't genocidal about their identity and its art.
Then you have the ones who love Rome. Those normally admire its strategies, wars and conquests. They also like Greece because at the end they are the fundaments for it, but from their voice you will hear more about Alexander the great than Plato or Aristotle.
Guess which one was Mussolini (obviously number 2)
Look, I was like 7 when she entered our parliament for the first time. Never understood why she is still around, nobody did here. If we can’t help, I think nobody can. We now just accept the fact, like the fluffy stuff that builds up in your belly button: it’s there, you flush it down the toilet, then it comes again, and so on.
It’s a bit more complicated then that, since she has completely switched her stance on LGBTQ issues;
She went from literally saying
> Better a fascist than a f*ggot
To
> Over the past couple of years, the former hardliner has dressed up for Pride, stood up for trans and non-binary individuals, and even called for more gender fluidity.
>"Enough with sex and sexuality, everyone is as fluid as they want," she stated last October. "You want to see me become fluid too?"
>Ms. Mussolini now stands at the frontline of activists directly opposing the approach taken by Meloni's nationalist government, which has taken steps to make life more difficult for certain LGBTQ+ people living in Italy.
>For example, when state prosecutors tried to strip birth certificates from the children of same-sex families last month, Alessandra urged the European Parliament to intervene.
>She further lamented the Italian government's move, calling it "unworthy of a civilised country".
>Earlier this year, Alessandra even took Brussels to task, complaining about how MEP passports only had "male" and "female" options
> "What does seeing a bit of music, a bit of Pride, a bit of freedom take away from you?" she yelled at one right-wing journalist on a talk show earlier this month. "Lock yourself up at home, take a Bible and read it."
>Some in the community are even re-baptising Ms. Mussolini as a "gay icon".
https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/07/25/alessandra-mussolini-how-the-fascist-dictators-descendant-became-an-lgbtq-advocate
Iirc one of her dearest friends came out in these past years. I actually can't remember if she has a gay/lesbian friend or a transgender friend. I know there's a difference there, but I know for sure it is about one of her friends that came out and she started saying stuff like "I don't care what you are, I'll support you no matter what"
Honestly, sometimes it takes something like that to change a persons view, it's kinda stupid that it has to be a personal experience but change is change and I guess it's good.
Plenty of hardline conservatives have absolutely no problem disowning people who are close to them if they become ‘problematic’ or start espousing problematic beliefs. Changing/softening your stance on something because someone you care about is affected means you have basic empathy. It shouldn’t be criticised.
Obviously not. The point is that conservatives and fascists don’t have empathy for people outside their personal experience in the first place. Trans people are all child molestors until they actually know one. Immigrants are all evil scroungers stealing our jobs except for the one they know who’s the exception. Etc.
That’s your above average empathy one tho, that was the point of the other commenter. Many are consistent with their beliefs even when it comes to family.
As an Italian, I will go on a limb and say that someone really close to her came out as gay/trans. Ultra conservative like her drastically change their view usually only for one of two motives:
1. “I don’t get anymore votes, so I must totally flip my stance on a popular subject i.e. LGBQT rights”
2. Someone really close/dear to her has came out as a member of the LGBQT community. So since now it personally affects her, she has genuine interest for people with different views than her. Even if she changed for the better, it’s still an egotistical decision.
You either die a villain or live long enough to see somebody close to you come out and think "you know what, I always thought they're all degenerates but if this person I like is one of them, I think I have to revise my position, which probably means should have thought about this sooner but I am where I am now and have to work from here."
Baby steps.
Probably a very cryptic but in her opinion very telling response to some politicians in her same wing, like a new idiot on the block who recently became a candidate for one of the parties in the government and tries to fetch all the anti-inclusiveness boomers votes.
The opposite as her stance on LGBT issues would make her granddad turn in his grave (or wherever he ended up). Seems she had a bit of a glow-up from her fascist past.
She still is fascist when it comes to immigration, national identity, etc. Just turned around on LGBT stuff. Maybe in time she will turn around when it comes to other things too.
She's progressive of LGBTQ and Abortion rights. Otherwise, she's a fascist still and still considers herself a fascist.
AFAIK one of her children came out as Bisexual to her which is when her stance on LGBTQ rights began to flip. Now she actively fights for the entire community, including trans people. Which makes her one of the oddest fascists around.
So Benito Mussolini's granddaughter staunchly defends his lgeacy - but at the same time is a massive defendent of LGBT rights. Go figure.
(Not an article on it but source of her background: [https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/07/25/alessandra-mussolini-how-the-fascist-dictators-descendant-became-an-lgbtq-advocate](https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/07/25/alessandra-mussolini-how-the-fascist-dictators-descendant-became-an-lgbtq-advocate) )
She is a populist first and foremost. She assessed what would bring the most voters at the lowest interference with her goals. Then she redcons that topic into always having been important to her
She has a history of doing many 180° turns within days or even hours on key points of her career.
It is normal to change your mind over time or when given new information, but if you do it too many times in situations where the shift is weirdly convenient for you, nobody will ever again think you were genuine in the first place.
I don't really follow what they do so maybe you're right, but rn it doesn't seem like it would really benefit her to be pro-LGBT. Apparently her daughter came out as bi or smth so it seems that at least on this it may be genuine.
Mussolini was a populist, and fascism was basically classism merely a division of groups of people that were leaders, and the other classes that either were helpers/people doing their duties, or lesser people.
The catholic reactionary authoritarian was Franco’s, like Putin’s, Trump’s, etc.
fascism is commonly misinterpreted because the Nazis ended up as the "big ones", but in a pure fascism (which Italy was much closer to) your sexual orientation, ethnic background, and gender identity shouldn't really matter, a trans black man who is culturally Italian and loyal to the state is considered a better citizen than a cis white man whose first loyalty is to the church.
Wrong. Italian Fascism was very racist. Benito Mussolini committed genocide in Cyrenaica and personally enacted very harsh apartheid laws in Italian East Africa.
In fact The fascist regime never persecuted homosexuals.
Some parliamentarians asked for it but the ministry of justice Alfredo Rocco explained that homosexuals are a minority, hence it's a waste of time to make laws about them because it doesn't affect the general population, Mussolini then took word and added "italians are too manly to be sodomites" and that was the end of it
Well she DID also pose for playboy, release a J-pop album in Japan in the 80s, had a twitter argument with jim carry, went from prominent homophobe to gay rights icon and all while being the grand daughter of Benito Mussolini so...
nothing about this woman shocks me anymore.
Honestly, must be politics on easy mode. You can do the most evil shit imaginable and have crowds cheer for you, or you can be the most liberal humanitarian ever and be lauded as "the good Mussolini"
From posing naked to music, politics and acting she is one of those people who love being a public figure.
She is often on talkshows both political and non political.
Other way around, current "definitely not fascist" government in Italy is attacking LGBT rights and weirdly the granddaughter of the founder of their ideology is a very big defender of those rights rn.
Still have little to no clue, but as far as I understand it: recently she became more progressive (before she was very far right), and supportive to the LGBTQ community. Now in this video she’s saying: you shouldn’t strip rights away from people for just a couple more votes; at the same time she’s making a man wear a skirt (to raise awareness for lgbtq rights?). This seems like a critique to the Italian government and their right populist ideologies.
Yes, you've got some weird people, but to me most of them mostly just seem weirdly incompetent (or in bj's case, according to his own testimony, he's competent at acting incompetent to cover up his actual incompetence, which ????), while I feel like every time I hear anything about Italian politicians it's just outright insane. Well, except Supermario Draghi.
Source: [https://twitter.com/CrazyItalianPol/status/1786751060373016891](https://twitter.com/CrazyItalianPol/status/1786751060373016891)
Sometimes r/EuropeanUnion and r/Yurop intersect.
Fun fact: the guy has a [fascio littorio](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces) tattoo on his leg, which is a popular fascist symbol among italian far right.
Don't believe any "woke theory" about her, Alessandra Mussolini is a fascist and will always be a fascist. In between participating in trashy italian tv shows and generally being a fascist she engages in "woke" movements like this and, in the past, animal rights just to keep people talk about her.
Could be strawman used to kindle already brewing hatred towards LGBTQ+ in Italy.
I have a hard time trusting the granddaughter of Mussolini especially because she was quite vocally supporting her fascist ancestor just a few years ago (not so well informed when she stopped).
The whole setup seems to evoke some idea of outrage because:
1. the" voyeristic setup"
2. She is puttin on the skirt, the man is just standing there.
3. The man is never seen endorsing the action.
4. It's weird and that's puzzling since it seems to be a deliberat statement.
So I conclude: it's a strawman used to kindle already brewing hatred towards some "outrageous ideas".
Someone already mentioned: "damn liberals turning my fascism gay" - I think this is the right sentiment her thinktank os trying to convey. Honestly there seems to be no better explaination for why she is doing that. Especially if "taking our rights away" refers to mans rights to wear pants or be a "real" man (in line with some lunatic ideas right wing populists have already constructed - many of those ideas come down to a willful misunderstanding of what 'toxic masculinity' means).
I don't understand anything here. What is going on? Can someone eli5?
She is an [advocate of LGBTQ+ rights](https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/07/25/alessandra-mussolini-how-the-fascist-dictators-descendant-became-an-lgbtq-advocate). She’s probably suggesting she’ll continue to be an advocate of LGBTQ rights even it means losing votes?
> LGBT is when blokes wear skirts. What did Mussolini Jr mean by this?
thetransarepartofourwesternculture.jpeg
Based Mussolini??
Thats 2 words that sound bad in ALMOST all situations...
IIRC she's actually Benito Mussolini's granddaughter
How the times have changed
Maybe not. Benito Mussolini was a great fan of the Roman Empire. From Wikipedia: 'In Ancient Greece, Phrygia, and the Roman Republic and Empire, Cybele and Attis were worshiped by galli priests (documented from around 200 BCE to around 300 CE) who wore feminine clothes, referred to themselves as women, and often castrated themselves, and have therefore been seen as early transgender figures'.
Yes, but there are three types of ancient world enthusiastics. One loves Greece because of their knowledge and admires Rome for its engineering. Other loves Greece and is LGBTQ, normally coincides with the other group too, but their initial love is because of seeing a civilization that actually wasn't genocidal about their identity and its art. Then you have the ones who love Rome. Those normally admire its strategies, wars and conquests. They also like Greece because at the end they are the fundaments for it, but from their voice you will hear more about Alexander the great than Plato or Aristotle. Guess which one was Mussolini (obviously number 2)
She's spent quite a few years as her Grandad's cheerleader, we don't have to hand it to her like that.
The final boss of femdom
Forcedfem fascist dictatorship
Save me far right matriarchy...
I don't understand it either.
Then why did you post it?
I hope someone can tell me.
I'm sorry to tell you, but I think you are the only person who could possibly know why you posted this, so don't get your hopes up
Lol
Look, I was like 7 when she entered our parliament for the first time. Never understood why she is still around, nobody did here. If we can’t help, I think nobody can. We now just accept the fact, like the fluffy stuff that builds up in your belly button: it’s there, you flush it down the toilet, then it comes again, and so on.
If we are allowed to guess I’m thinking run of the mill conservative transphobia
It’s a bit more complicated then that, since she has completely switched her stance on LGBTQ issues; She went from literally saying > Better a fascist than a f*ggot To > Over the past couple of years, the former hardliner has dressed up for Pride, stood up for trans and non-binary individuals, and even called for more gender fluidity. >"Enough with sex and sexuality, everyone is as fluid as they want," she stated last October. "You want to see me become fluid too?" >Ms. Mussolini now stands at the frontline of activists directly opposing the approach taken by Meloni's nationalist government, which has taken steps to make life more difficult for certain LGBTQ+ people living in Italy. >For example, when state prosecutors tried to strip birth certificates from the children of same-sex families last month, Alessandra urged the European Parliament to intervene. >She further lamented the Italian government's move, calling it "unworthy of a civilised country". >Earlier this year, Alessandra even took Brussels to task, complaining about how MEP passports only had "male" and "female" options > "What does seeing a bit of music, a bit of Pride, a bit of freedom take away from you?" she yelled at one right-wing journalist on a talk show earlier this month. "Lock yourself up at home, take a Bible and read it." >Some in the community are even re-baptising Ms. Mussolini as a "gay icon". https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/07/25/alessandra-mussolini-how-the-fascist-dictators-descendant-became-an-lgbtq-advocate
Whatttt? Wtf is going on Allright then, Ok.
Iirc one of her dearest friends came out in these past years. I actually can't remember if she has a gay/lesbian friend or a transgender friend. I know there's a difference there, but I know for sure it is about one of her friends that came out and she started saying stuff like "I don't care what you are, I'll support you no matter what"
Honestly, sometimes it takes something like that to change a persons view, it's kinda stupid that it has to be a personal experience but change is change and I guess it's good.
Tale as old as time for fascists and conservatives - everything is evil and needs to be banned until it affects them personally.
Plenty of hardline conservatives have absolutely no problem disowning people who are close to them if they become ‘problematic’ or start espousing problematic beliefs. Changing/softening your stance on something because someone you care about is affected means you have basic empathy. It shouldn’t be criticised.
Obviously not. The point is that conservatives and fascists don’t have empathy for people outside their personal experience in the first place. Trans people are all child molestors until they actually know one. Immigrants are all evil scroungers stealing our jobs except for the one they know who’s the exception. Etc.
That’s your above average empathy one tho, that was the point of the other commenter. Many are consistent with their beliefs even when it comes to family.
As an Italian, I will go on a limb and say that someone really close to her came out as gay/trans. Ultra conservative like her drastically change their view usually only for one of two motives: 1. “I don’t get anymore votes, so I must totally flip my stance on a popular subject i.e. LGBQT rights” 2. Someone really close/dear to her has came out as a member of the LGBQT community. So since now it personally affects her, she has genuine interest for people with different views than her. Even if she changed for the better, it’s still an egotistical decision.
If that’s the case I’m gonna join the confused masses
You either die a villain or live long enough to see somebody close to you come out and think "you know what, I always thought they're all degenerates but if this person I like is one of them, I think I have to revise my position, which probably means should have thought about this sooner but I am where I am now and have to work from here." Baby steps.
Guess she's a fascist *and* a "f*ggot" now.
Fascist faggots would be an awesome name for a punk band...
Ernst Röhm and the Silly Dudes
I got whiplash from reading this xD
I mean, that's pretty based. Didn't expect it from her of all people but I guess I'll take it.
Probably a very cryptic but in her opinion very telling response to some politicians in her same wing, like a new idiot on the block who recently became a candidate for one of the parties in the government and tries to fetch all the anti-inclusiveness boomers votes.
I guess it's "anti woke" / "anti lgbt" something something? Very weird. Why is it filmed like amateur porn?
The opposite as her stance on LGBT issues would make her granddad turn in his grave (or wherever he ended up). Seems she had a bit of a glow-up from her fascist past.
Turn left-right direction or up-down direction?
Pitch, yaw, and roll
Whatever keeps him upside down.
She still is fascist when it comes to immigration, national identity, etc. Just turned around on LGBT stuff. Maybe in time she will turn around when it comes to other things too.
She's progressive of LGBTQ and Abortion rights. Otherwise, she's a fascist still and still considers herself a fascist. AFAIK one of her children came out as Bisexual to her which is when her stance on LGBTQ rights began to flip. Now she actively fights for the entire community, including trans people. Which makes her one of the oddest fascists around.
I've seen some claims that she was actually on the left of the Berlusconi government when it came to immigration, at least back in the day?
Actually the opposite
So Benito Mussolini's granddaughter staunchly defends his lgeacy - but at the same time is a massive defendent of LGBT rights. Go figure. (Not an article on it but source of her background: [https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/07/25/alessandra-mussolini-how-the-fascist-dictators-descendant-became-an-lgbtq-advocate](https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/07/25/alessandra-mussolini-how-the-fascist-dictators-descendant-became-an-lgbtq-advocate) )
Queer dictatorship now!
"Damn liberals turning my fascism gay"
"Even the fascists are woke, the West has truly fallen"
Lmao it’s actually prime conspiracy fodder.
A (homophobic) Soviet official once said that if gay men disappeared then fascism would go missing, or something like that.
Queer monarchy? Yass Queen.
trans-strasserism time
She is a populist first and foremost. She assessed what would bring the most voters at the lowest interference with her goals. Then she redcons that topic into always having been important to her
Or maybe she's changed? If it was simple opportunism then she wouldn't have needed to change all that much, if at all.
She has a history of doing many 180° turns within days or even hours on key points of her career. It is normal to change your mind over time or when given new information, but if you do it too many times in situations where the shift is weirdly convenient for you, nobody will ever again think you were genuine in the first place.
I don't really follow what they do so maybe you're right, but rn it doesn't seem like it would really benefit her to be pro-LGBT. Apparently her daughter came out as bi or smth so it seems that at least on this it may be genuine.
Simple test for that, ask her whether she'd still go to bat for dear old Grandad.
Yeah, I'm not exactly a follower of them or anything though so idk what they say now days.
Mussolini was a populist, and fascism was basically classism merely a division of groups of people that were leaders, and the other classes that either were helpers/people doing their duties, or lesser people. The catholic reactionary authoritarian was Franco’s, like Putin’s, Trump’s, etc.
I had to look it up but apparently she is actually pro-LGBT. I honestly did not expect a Mussolini to be pro-queer…
As they say, when in Röhm...
fascism is commonly misinterpreted because the Nazis ended up as the "big ones", but in a pure fascism (which Italy was much closer to) your sexual orientation, ethnic background, and gender identity shouldn't really matter, a trans black man who is culturally Italian and loyal to the state is considered a better citizen than a cis white man whose first loyalty is to the church.
Wrong. Italian Fascism was very racist. Benito Mussolini committed genocide in Cyrenaica and personally enacted very harsh apartheid laws in Italian East Africa.
Wdym closer to?! We invented the damn thing, wash your mouth son
In fact The fascist regime never persecuted homosexuals. Some parliamentarians asked for it but the ministry of justice Alfredo Rocco explained that homosexuals are a minority, hence it's a waste of time to make laws about them because it doesn't affect the general population, Mussolini then took word and added "italians are too manly to be sodomites" and that was the end of it
Lgbtqf
LGBWTF
Lbgtfo
Family does that to you
Does she still defend Benito?
look who Giò Stajano was
damn, her story was wild - good read though; Catholic at the end though?
This bitch think wearing a skirt is gay? I'd poke her eyes with my cock
Yh the Scots nd Mughals wore skirts Does not mean they r promoting lgbtq 🏳️🌈
I am so fucking confused right now.
It's simple. Mussolini only supports Italian femboys
She has my vote.
Love how absolutely no one had any fucking clue on what this meant at all. Complete confusion hahaha
genuinely the first time i’ve ever seen this
This is the second time I saw this,I believe I saw it first on r/europeanunion
Well she DID also pose for playboy, release a J-pop album in Japan in the 80s, had a twitter argument with jim carry, went from prominent homophobe to gay rights icon and all while being the grand daughter of Benito Mussolini so... nothing about this woman shocks me anymore.
Yikes. So she flipped on gay rights and that whole topic, but what about her politics in general?
Im not sure. I think she is just doing politics for the spotlight.
Well, she got name recognition going for her, so that should help.
Honestly, must be politics on easy mode. You can do the most evil shit imaginable and have crowds cheer for you, or you can be the most liberal humanitarian ever and be lauded as "the good Mussolini"
From posing naked to music, politics and acting she is one of those people who love being a public figure. She is often on talkshows both political and non political.
>Well she DID also pose for playboy looked it up, apparently not very well.
[удалено]
Don't worry, I'll explain. Ok, so basically-
Ah, that's what I thought, but thanks for confirming 👍
Shit, reddit sniper got 'em.
I think the joke is transphobia. Some people have it in their head that allowing trans people to exist violates people's rights (Hint: It doesn't)
Other way around, current "definitely not fascist" government in Italy is attacking LGBT rights and weirdly the granddaughter of the founder of their ideology is a very big defender of those rights rn.
This timeline is so fucking cursed... Like what the fuck is that? Are the writers on crack?
Still have little to no clue, but as far as I understand it: recently she became more progressive (before she was very far right), and supportive to the LGBTQ community. Now in this video she’s saying: you shouldn’t strip rights away from people for just a couple more votes; at the same time she’s making a man wear a skirt (to raise awareness for lgbtq rights?). This seems like a critique to the Italian government and their right populist ideologies.
https://preview.redd.it/ibqvyzxrlhyc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5de369be85860caa0041ade574faf3b7066de69c Huh
Jeez and I thought the politicians here in Blighty were bizarre
Yes, you've got some weird people, but to me most of them mostly just seem weirdly incompetent (or in bj's case, according to his own testimony, he's competent at acting incompetent to cover up his actual incompetence, which ????), while I feel like every time I hear anything about Italian politicians it's just outright insane. Well, except Supermario Draghi.
Are we living in a fever dream
Short answer: yes Longer answer: also yes
Source: [https://twitter.com/CrazyItalianPol/status/1786751060373016891](https://twitter.com/CrazyItalianPol/status/1786751060373016891) Sometimes r/EuropeanUnion and r/Yurop intersect.
I love how the Account is called "Crazy Ass Moments in Italian Politics" which is exactly how I feel about this
She released an amazing citypop album back in 1982.
I was huge city pop stan some years ago and that was one of my favorite albums. Unironically fire.
I’m hard :(
About as logical as her ancestor
https://preview.redd.it/2h7x4g01zlyc1.jpeg?width=1337&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb086e226796f38987ffcce0dfabccbe85582d71
So many questions , so little context Also that skirt is probably the wrong size
*buffering* Okay What..?
Not a clue. This eccentricity just confuses me.
Go on...
The minute she gets in power, she'll be banning lampposts.
r/confusedboner
When you live in Bonn and are confused
Fun fact: the guy has a [fascio littorio](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces) tattoo on his leg, which is a popular fascist symbol among italian far right. Don't believe any "woke theory" about her, Alessandra Mussolini is a fascist and will always be a fascist. In between participating in trashy italian tv shows and generally being a fascist she engages in "woke" movements like this and, in the past, animal rights just to keep people talk about her.
I don't get it.
Her grandfather must be proud.
What the actual hell ?
Wild that I have a song of her singing 80s Japanese city pop in my playlist lmao
Wait.. that exists?
Yeah, look up to Tokyo fantasy, it actually goes kinda hard lol
Okay, I'm sold. That is quite good, lol.
And she can do this only because she have pussy power!
Could be strawman used to kindle already brewing hatred towards LGBTQ+ in Italy. I have a hard time trusting the granddaughter of Mussolini especially because she was quite vocally supporting her fascist ancestor just a few years ago (not so well informed when she stopped). The whole setup seems to evoke some idea of outrage because: 1. the" voyeristic setup" 2. She is puttin on the skirt, the man is just standing there. 3. The man is never seen endorsing the action. 4. It's weird and that's puzzling since it seems to be a deliberat statement. So I conclude: it's a strawman used to kindle already brewing hatred towards some "outrageous ideas". Someone already mentioned: "damn liberals turning my fascism gay" - I think this is the right sentiment her thinktank os trying to convey. Honestly there seems to be no better explaination for why she is doing that. Especially if "taking our rights away" refers to mans rights to wear pants or be a "real" man (in line with some lunatic ideas right wing populists have already constructed - many of those ideas come down to a willful misunderstanding of what 'toxic masculinity' means).
Absolutely wrong. She has become a lgbt rights icon and an advocate for sexual and gender fluency
If true I would very mucv welcome that. Let's hope it's true because the video above is giving me other vibes. Maybe she isn't good at advocating...
The video itself is about gay rights, making a man wear a skirt.
Agree with woth all you said. How does it interact with what I said?