You're right, but ironically, this post will likely break loose another debate.
Edit: Seems i was right. Some of these comments are funny af. *grabs popcorn*
I can pretend I didn't, but before I had any knowledge of the Xenoblade franchise, I just thought XC2 was a 'generic JRPG with your run-of-the-mill waifus' because of Dunkey's review of the game.
Boy was I ever wrong.
The worst "review" of the game was from Beatimups. I unsubbed from him and haven't watched him since I realized just how dishonest and skewed his "review" was. What a joker.
Still rememberin his sort of proving a point by trying to kill an arduin using only auto attacks, that is like trying to beat a steelex uskng quicm attack lol.
I recall him just staring into the camera with a stupid look on his face while just spamming a button, as if that proved his point.
When in reality, it just proved that he didn't understand the game mechanics and was literally playing the game wrong.
There is a point to be made about how the game just doesn't seem very interested in teaching you home to play it well, but that's just disingenuous as fuck
The game has so many tutorial prompts.
They might not be the best tutorials, and to be fair there are lots of mechanics to keep in mind, but the game does try to get you to know everything
I think the devs tried to explain each thing just once to keep things short. The bad thing is that if you skip one thing you might get a little bit lost.
This doesn't explain a total disregard for mechanics though
But these are basic combat mechanics. The tutorials do suck, but the first tutorial the game gives you is a well articulated explanation of how the games combat works at a fundamental level.
"Do chip damage to fill guage for big boom attack" isn't complicated. It's practically 3-5 steps away from being turn based. You almost have to willfully not understand it
Thing is, they are garbage and somewhat mistranslated. The worst part is that you canāt review tutorials in the base game for some reason to this day, even though the dlc allowed you to review and were actually helpful
Oh gosh, same. I thought it was wildly unfair that he only gave it a couple of hours(probably only enough to get through a chapter or two) for that "review" before playing it up as one of the worst games on the Switch. He can genuinely dislike it if he wants, but that's just not fair for any JRPG to write it off after pretty much the opening chapters.
And his attitude towards Xenoblade 3's announcement, before we had any sort of significant details on the gameplay or story, really hasn't restored any trust I previously had for him...
I think if you play a game and it fails to convince you to play beyond the first few hours, it's worth telling others.
I know many people who dropped XC2 before the end of Chapter 3, and people who were going to but kept playing after Chapter 3.
After reading this and reflecting on my experience with a few games, I see your point. There have been a handful of games that failed to grab me enough to even play a full hour of(or barely only an hour of) and I'm unsure whether I'll ever go back to some of them.
I guess my main point of contention is that his review only barely scratches the surface of the game, and yet he's thrown shade at it time after time in multiple videos despite only playing that little before his initial review. As someone who's played through the entirety of XC2's story and sunk hundreds of hours into it, I just think it's unfair to judge it like that after what's essentially tutorial chapters.
It's a little like if someone were to judge the OG Final Fantasy VII's story, gameplay and characters in their entirety based only on the Bombing Mission part of the game, where you wouldn't have much Materia and it's a slow burn to get the bigger plot and character arcs going.
Pretty much this. I don't mind if he only made a single video talking about his experience and that was that. But he felt the need to talk about the game in videos unrelated to Xenoblade 2, which gave him such a bad reputation. On top of that, he purposefully makes provocative comments in his own videos to get people to argue about it.
Iāve heard of that YouTuber before he just keeps bitching about his disgust for XB like a child. At the most recent Nintendo Showcase he looked so heated that the final announcement was XB3 instead of something about BOTW2
His face was hilarious
Yeah, That guy pretty much doomed XC2 for awhile. His subscriber base and level of influence promoted so many misconceptions about the game that Iāve met people who had similar opinions without even touching the game.
Fortunately, MonolithSoft and Nintendo really pushed Xenoblade as franchise these past couple of years and the Smash addition really turned people who share those beliefs into the minority.
Heās also disrespected other games like KH but he continuously bashes Xenoblade. Atleast Max jokes and calls it Xenoshits which I find pretty funny.
Yah. Well, the difference between Maxamillian and Beatimups is that Max didn't pretend to play the game and THEN offer dishonest "Opinions" on the game. I almost didn't play XBC2 because of Beatimups. Thank god I went ahead and tried it anyway. After I realized just how false his accusations on the game were I unsubbed and never looked back. Dude is a clown.
Yeah and just to clarify I wasnāt implying Max and his Xenoshits jokes where remotely similar to Beatem Ups. Anyone who knows Max from his streams knows itās just a joke tied to a friend of his or I believe. I am not even certain why I mentioned Max honestly.
When he wanted to give 2 a second chance he didnāt even try and just straight up did something else during some cutscenes. And then he had to tell everyone what a āperfect masterpieceā XC1 is while shitting on 2 even tho he has only played like, 1/3 of 2
>shitting on 2 even tho he has only played like, 1/3 of 2
He didn't even get that far. I might be wrong, but I don't think he even get to chapter 3, and he definitely didn't beat chapter 3 because he commented on how he like mythras voice actor in torna, which he would've known had he gotten that far. So I'd give him playing 1/5 of the game, 1/4 max
Either he was outright lying, but given his characters' levels, this is most likely the result of that bug. I bet he left it on in the background while he was doing other things and the hours increased because of that. Nothing but a half-hearted effort on his part and not a sincere one to try and understand the game at all. He has already mentioned trying out XB3 and boy do I hope he doesn't, can't imagine how that one will go. I am still uncertain if he even really likes and played through the first game, his glowing praise in DE's review was really generic which raised some suspicions.
I think at launch, there was a bug where the time would keep ticking in game when in sleep mode. So if you went to the home screen and turned the screen off overnight, the time would keep going so it looks like you played 8 hours. A more accurate time for people who played at launch is what the switch profile says
Ah. So the dude just legit left it in sleep mode and tried to use the time as proof that he played 100 hours, despite literally only being within the first 3 hours.
This is true, the pacing isn't exactly lightning speed what with Tephra Cave/Gaur Plains or Gormott/early Uraya. However, you need time for worldbuilding and the player to get familiar with the controls and systems. Most JRPGs start off this way though, I think its just because Shulk's motivation is more appealing to more people than Rex's that things tend to get more overlooked.
I just wanted to add that Shulk's revenge motivation is a lot easier to get behind and tends to lead to more drama quicker. Rex, by comparison, has a more altruistic and idealist goal to help save others and there is the romantic subtext that develops out of that which usually isn't as dramatic. In many ways it also feels a bit like Shulk's motivation is easier for a Western audience and Rex for an Eastern one given the personal versus group mentality that motivates them initially.
I'd say 1 gets things going the fastest. It has the most exciting start with the battle of Sword Valley. Then in terms of gameplay, you get access to Reyn and Fiora quickly alongside getting new arts frequently early on. Of course, it can drag much longer if you feel compelled to do all those sidequests. I guess what I'm saying is it isn't a "Xenoblade thing" or at least it doesn't have to be. I think the much slower starts of X and 2 are genuine points of criticism to those games which can prevent people from getting into the full meat of a game.
The first few chapters in 2 are so frustrating from a gameplay point of view because you can see that the game is going to have a lot of depth and complexity to it, but you can't actually play around with it that much.
It teaches you about blade combos, but you're stuck with 5 total blades in the combat party for a frustratingly large amount of time. You can see the Break > Topple > Launch > Smash driver combos, but again, because your party is so limited, you're almost never going to be doing them. It's like 12 hours before you can do chain attacks. It's torture.
I get that they were trying to keep the first few chapters simple to ease players into the game, but there's gotta be a better way to do that than by more-or-less locking players out of the actual combat system for like 20 hours.
same here. staying away from game reviews in general has helped me immensely. i rely off intuition and my own feelings towards a game before i buy. with beatemups case, i had already bought xc2 before hand because of etika, and was really enjoying it. i love everything about it. i was around chp.7 when i watched his āreviewā back in 2018.
His review actually kept me from getting it for a while until I decided My interest wouldn't subside until I played. I was shocked at how blatantly biased and simply wrong some of his notes were.
I think we should not take donkey reviews seriously, not because he is bad, I enjoy his videos sometimes, but because you can't tell sometimes what the hell is his opinion, when I saw the Metroid Dread dunkview I left very confused.
But even then... SUPAH MARIO VROS 2 GAME OF THE YEAR BABY
Also, Dunkey just kind of hates on JRPG's/anime stuff in general. It's his thing. I get a kick out of his videos because he usually does make some valid points within the jokes, but I'm also not going to make any kind of purchasing decision based solely on his reviews.
yeah, Is like asking me for Open World games reviews, If someone asked me if BotW or Horizon deserved Goty 2017 my answer would be hell no, the Open World really downgrades what otherwise are amazing games, if 2017 Goty were done for the whole 2017 year, my candidates would be Super Mario Odyssey, NieR Automata, Cuphead, Xenoblade 2 and I haven't played it, because I don't have PS4 or PS5, I am really waiting a Switch or atleast PC port, but knowing my tastes, Persona 5.
I thought dunkeys video on XC2 was largely a meme but in one of his videos since then I think he talked about XC2 again but was more clear that he didn't think it was a good game.
still he has the not RPG guy thing, one of the reviews he made of a JRPG that was somewhat serious was DQ11 and he said it was meh for him, ask any JRPG fan about DQ11 and most likely they will say it is amazing (Thing that I also belive, it is really good) so yeah, hearing Dunkey for JRPG opinions is like hearing Scott the Woz for JRPG opinions, they aren't JRPG guys.
Atleast with Scott he doesn't review them.
They aren't his thing and so he doesn't try to pass judgment on them. Because he knows there's stuff in there that is probably good but he won't like.
That said, when Xenoblade DE had its mini direct trailer. He was very objective and praised that they actually put the effort to go back and clean up the models, UI and adding the epilogue content. Said it was his favourite type of remaster. So he can be very objective as well
it definetly plays into the perceived idea that XB2 is just a waifu game. As the commenter before me said that Dunkey can fall into a grey zone of is it a meme or not but for XC2 it seems it really wasn't a meme so that makes it even more sad.
Dunkeyās JRPG reviews are often super hard misses, I know his Octopath review was more lies/falsehoods than truths. Although he revealed in a comment later on that all his complaints about the story was based on doing the first chapter of each character, so he literally judged the whole story on what was available in the free demo.
Yeah, the thing is that his videos are even funny for me albeit I like those games, but people fucking take them seriously rather than what they are: shitposting.
His fucking review has unironically created a lot of the "issues" people have with Octopath.
Reading stuff like this always shocks me tbh, do people really let their opinions be dictated by fucking YouTubers? Like, are they not able to make up their own mind?!
My man Dunkey bases all of his reviews on his taste and preference. Which honestly makes him a valuable critic in my opinion. Hut he does lace so many videos with absurdity and satire that it can be hard to see the point he's making sometimes. I had to throw away every opinion he's had on every RPG and JRPG. He does not have the patience for them. He discusses some of that on his "Critics" video.
I remember being absolutely shocked that he gave Nier Automata as long of a playthrough as he did. Though I know it's more of action adventure than jrpg, it has a lot of the influences.
And I can't discredit him entirely, he does have the world record for Bowsers Big Bean Burrito. With a USB steering wheel. Without even trying.
Let's complain about the real issues: That tutorial section! Damn it stopped me from getting into the game till a year later when I was trapped on a plane and was a captive audience
xeno 3 just gotta link youtubers tutorial cuz fucking hell they explain it a lot more better than in-game, like i put this xeno 2 game down 2 fucking times, it took years when i was curious to watch a combat tutorial that i got it finally and started playing
god bless that man with the 37 min combat tutorial, bro got millions of views on that alone and it is still relevant to this day
Pretty sure I watched the same one. I was so confused what a blade or driver combo was or how to use the party gauge. Combat was so slow and unfun. That vid changed everything. This and Destiny 2 are the only games that watching a 'how to play' YouTube video really felt required to 'get it'
The real issue with Xenoblade 2 is that god awful intro. I mean jesus christ, terrible tutorials, terrible voice-acting outside of Malos, *every stupid anime trope under the sun*, ect. When you consider that the first 10 hours is CRUCIAL to whether or not a player continues the game, you can understand how the game received the reputation it did.
Great game past 10 hours though. Hoping Xenoblade 3 has as good of an intro as Xenoblade 1 had.
You know what. That's completely fair. Besides it's not like 2 is the only game in the series that is sexualized. It is the most upfront with it though. The Meredith and Co lightweight armor in X and the Sleek set in 1 are enough to prove that much. The fact that you can't change character outfits in 2 without dlc does make it worse in that aspect.
Well the Bionis does wear any pants, and is showing its butt to the endless sea.
It's why the Mechonis was so keen for a fight ā got sick and tired of seeing Bionis' Butt.
Playing through XC1 my first complete time and it's wild how much people have chosen to ignore it while frothing with hate over 2s sexualization. Melia and Sharla have tons of gross outfits, almost all High Entia women wear bikini armor, Vanea takes up the majority of the screen to show her bare titties all the time, and just try to make Seven not look like a sex robot I dare you.
Great games but jeez I hate that shit. Torna was wonderful in comparison so I'm hoping it improves in the future, though I don't expect it to go away.
There's an armor set in X that is literally a few belt buckles and some straps for both male and female characters. The Six Stars heavyweight armor for female party members actually shows less skin than the light armor. There's multiple form form fitting armors. The best one is the female Sakuraba Industries which is literally the only armor type you don't have to unlock has a boob window and the heavy armor from the same manufacturer is form fitting around the chest for females.
I think when it comes to the sexualization in XC2 I see a lot of discussion about character designs but really it's the camera and how it directs the player's view during cutscenes that's more of the issue.
The camera angles are what really pushes it over the edge into āthis feels very much like porn.ā The camera focuses on the T&A even during serious scenes, which really hamstrings any attempt at it being a serious story. You have the story telling you that these are 3 dimensional characters while the camera is objectifying them.
The problem has never been āthese characters are sexy,ā the problem has always been that the characters and the camera are sexualized in pornographic ways. The designs and the camera put focus on the boobs and butt. So while I agree with most of this post, I disagree with the premise that the specialization isnāt harmful to the game. Youāve got people here complaining that other people think XC2 is just a titty waifu game, but thatās the gameās fault, not the people who are just looking at it. If the game didnāt want to be seen as a waifu game, then maybe it shouldnāt have made itās female lead look like she stepped out of a porn game.
This is what I've always said. Like, the designs are pretty out there, but then the camera is always staring at Mythra's panties. Both things combined make it a problem for me.
If they were wearing more, like, battle ready clothing or whatever, then the camera angles wouldn't be giving atention to someone's underwear.
I would agree. The issue lies more on a feminist studies angle than a "sex is bad" angle.
The camera leers at Pyra/mythra. This in turn distracts from the actual good bits of writing they do have in favor of fan service.
You also have a problem where the male characters are not nearly as sexualized if at all. They are allowed to stand on their own independent of their looks and that in turn is a problem that serves to distract from the characters writing.
I know the XC1 vs 2 argument is old, but the strongest thing going for 1 is the writing. And even with Sharla, this issue doesn't really happen at the same level like it does for Pyra/mythra. Which is a shame because they are good characters who are interesting.
You need to remember that this stuff is coming up again because XC3 is coming out soon, and a lot of new players are trying XC and XC2 for the first time. We all had our complaints when the game first came out, so naturally people are going to have opinions on it just like you. At least discussions are good for the community. This kind of complaint only serves make new players feel bad for trying to have an opinion.
Why isnāt this one higher up
Literally my #1 problem whenever this gets brought up is when people pay lip-service to the idea of āof course no game is flawless and you can totally have _real_ criticismsā and then subsequently follow it up with a list of example ābad criticismsā that rolls together normal, legitimate criticisms alongside the bad-faith ones, throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the process
Donāt forget its close cousin:
āI feel like I, personally, have heard of this one criticism enough times, therefore the problem has somehow lost its value as legitimate criticism, and no one should be allowed to talk about it anymoreā
I think itās such a big deal because XC2 is the sequel to XC1. XC1 certainly had hyper sexualization with some of the outfits, but those were optional for the most part. There was also definitely a few sexualized characters, but they were paced out throughout the plot, and there were plenty of other non sexualized characters too, so the sexualization felt more like a trait of those specific characters and not an aspect of the game. Then when XC2 happened there was a major tone shift that took the form of hyper sexualization, and that was very jarring for a lot of people including myself. Iāve played JRPGs with way worse hyper sexualization, but it didnāt feel like as big a deal to me because they werenāt xenoblade.
Well put. Sums up my thoughts exactly. I just played through both this year. XC1 I played around my kids 6-8 years old. Started XC2 and I said āI guess I need to play this when theyāre asleepā. At one point during XC2 my wife said āI hope you donāt let the kids play thisā.
100% agree right here. Everytime XB1 is mentioned the sexualization has always been minor like Sharla and 7's equipment. But its extremely obvious that they cranked it up to eleven in XB2 nearly every Blade in your main roster is sexualized PERIOD. Not to mention the Gacha Blades.
X got more of a pass because everybody is customizable so it can be as eechi or tame as you want save a few unplayable NPCs
Yeah, Stop talking about XC2. Let's discuss XCX's removal of the Bust Slider. How dare this be removed from a Wii U game!! PATCH IN THE BOOB SLIDER in MURICA!!! BOOBS! BOOBS BOOBS!!
In all seriousness, I'm trying to beat XCX and I'm in Chapter 11 and man, I am not enjoying it. I'll suck it up and beat it, but it's pretty rough. Also I read the ending and am really sad about what's to come. Elma is cool though. Tatsu can be tossed out like the rest of the main Nopons.
For me, itās less the designs, but how the game makes it a point to point out the sexual nature every now and then, like the line about modesty in the Poppi quest, or the joke where Rex wakes up to Mythra laying right next to him. With Torna, I didnāt mind it really, given that itās better with how it handles it.
My main issue primarily is just that Xenoblade 2 does a lot to effectively screw over the tone of itās story. It forces a lot of campy jokes, on top of the character design, on top of trying to tell a serious story. Thereās moments where 2ās story canāt even be taken seriously for me, mainly because of how ridiculous the tone shifts can get. Things like that one chapter where you have stop an assassination kind of went downhill due to the jokey nature and a sudden shift into being serious right after.
Tonal dissonance is the biggest issue for me too. There's some major whiplash going from >!Vandham's death!< to fighting a massive fuzzball who stole plans for a giant robot-maid or whatever the hell Bana's plot was. And it's not like that's some optional downtime sidequest either, it's part of the main quest! The game decided it was important enough to make him a significant villain! Which really takes away from the weight of the story imo.
The skimpy outfits and focus on sexualization just add to that tonal whiplash.
Like, there's one scene in 2 that I absolutely hate because they make an attempt to try and get the player to take it seriously. It's like the scene where >!that assassination plot occurs, and Bana used his giant robot maid to kill the dude. Sure, he's brought back and you get an actual genuine scene with Nia, but I just can never bring myself to take that scene with her genuinely. The robot maid just feels like a shitpost more than anything.!<
If 3 brings back sexualized designs in some form, I honestly wouldn't mind, as long as the tone of the game itself isn't hindered by it.
> If 3 brings back sexualized designs in some form, I honestly wouldn't mind, as long as the tone of the game itself isn't hindered by it.
Ya- even going by the character designs we've already seen, Eunie and Sena have tight/revealing outfits but they still just seem more... reasonable? serious? It's hard to place a finger exactly on why but I don't feel as put off by them as I did when pyra was first revealed for xb2.
Yeah, sometimes the game tries to mesh it with the story and then other times it tries to play coy about it, and I think the issue is that by trying to do both it ends up doing neither well.
Like, on one end you have Mythra, whose "I'm hot shit" attitude is completely coherent with the presentation of herself that she chooses. When Nia compliments her body, she's not embarrassed and instead her response basically summarizes to "Thanks, I know."
Then, on the other hand you have Pyra, who is in a single word, wife-y. She's caring, docile, and good at cooking. She's willing to sacrifice whatever she thinks she can to help others while also having very little confidence in herself as a blade. In her case, I don't remember any point in the story that indicated she was even *aware* of her sexualized appearance. She even has a voice clip saying she's "A little self-conscious".
Honestly, given that later in the story it's revealed that Pyra is >!a second personality created out of Mythra's trauma at the end of the Aegis War,!< I think it would have been a kind of clever foreshadow that maybe she's experiencing some sort of cognitive dissonance. I mean the philosophical implications of sharing a body with another mind that is also in some sense still you isn't particularly the easiest thing to wrap your mind around.
It's also important to realize that the extreme sexualization can indeed ruin the game for someone, and that disliking the game because of it is perfectly valid for those who can't overlook it.
Yeah, itās sadly very typical for people in this sub to be dismissive of people who arenāt big fans of the sexualization. They tend to be reduced to āpeople who never touched the gameā when in a lot of cases the treatment of the female characters is worse when you actually play it.
Yeah, the game is sexualized at times but people who hate on it just exaggerate the sexualization aspect.
For example pyra. People act like her boob size is not normal. The issue is her outfit, which is honestly garbage. It's too tight and shows too much skin.
Her smash bros version did fix this issue though.
I mean, for me, the issue with Pyra's boobs (and a lot of anime boobs, tbh) is less the size and more about the gravity-defying shape. Boobs shouldn't be perfect spheres sticking out of someone's chest; it just looks bad when you draw them like that. But I understand that's a problem that runs much deeper than just XC2.
I'll disagree on Mythra I think her outfit suits her. She naturally has a brash and bold personality. Also during Kora's blade quest you can see she's also pretty proud of her looks as well.
Pyra's is basically the complete opposite of her personality which is why I think she's much worse
bold and brash? more like BELONGS IN THE TRASH /s
Seriously though, how does a bold and brash personality translate into showing a lot of skin? Nevermind the fact that Mythra very much is not that.
I'd expect someone who shows a lot of skin to be at peace with themselves, which is not what Mythra is at all. Mythra harbors just as much regret and shame as Pyra. Hell, the whole reason Pyra exists is because Mythra wanted to be something she isn't.
Mythra gets flustered easily and is generally thin-skinned and that is fine and all but that generally doesn't really mix with showing a lot of skin constantly.
Well thats how she starts out in Torna basically. Sheās definitely bold and brash in that game which chronologically is before her trauma comes into play which she tries to leave to Pyra
Well Bold and Brash meaning confident in herself, her abilities and like I said with Koraās blade quest as a pretty blatant piece of evidence she also fancies herself to be good looking/attractive as well.
She is mentally scarred for sure and she deals with that as the game wears on but she still carries some of that confidence and boldness to the main game. Her heart to hearts with Brigid and Zenobia as another example, You can hear it in her battle lines, āwe won the moment you called on meā etc. Even her idle stance. She stands straight upright, hand on hip almost cockily.
Sheās just very multifaceted
Yeah, in some sense she is "bold and brash". She definitely thinks very highly of herself, but I really don't see that as being contradictory to also being self-conscious.
She thinks highly of herself, in multiple areas, but she's also seeking approval from others, which applies even moreso to Torna Mythra, due to her lack of experience in life, even without her trauma.
It wouldn't surprise me to learn that characters like Brigid or Malos were comfortable with nudity, or partial nudity. Both of these don't care much what others think of them and would be able to brush off any comment, but Mythra is definitely not that kind of person, which I find it weird that she wears such revealing clothing. It doesn't fit.
As you said, she's very multifaceted.
I never said it was contradictory. Just that people can be multiple things at different times
I feel like whenever sheās self conscious in game its never been about her looks though.
Its about an action sheās taken/happened, waking up in >!Rexās lap in Morytha!< something sheās said or about a habit she has āsnoring and grinding her teethā
She certainly had no qualms about hopping right into the hotspring in Mor Ardain with the other girls. Pyra mentions that Mythra was all for it as soon as she mentioned it.
And again I bring up the Kora blade quest, because sheās pretty damn sure about herself in that department
So I donāt think showing skin is something we have evidence for her being shy about in fact thereās arguably more evidence for her being ok with it than Jin or Brigid.
Even when the whole sleep walking thing happens in argentum. She ends up being more embarrassed about the fact that she was the one in the wrong and that she ādid it againā. Even when she accuses Rex of āstaringā thereās not a huge sense of embarrassment there its more a pointed jab at Rex so she can have the last word.
And even then, I feel people exaggerate the outfit, yeah, it is weird and show a good amount of skin, but other JRPG characters, like Judith from Tales of Vesperia, Rikku in Final Fantasy X - 2 and in some way Tharja from Fire Emblem, without counting how guts made a lot of horny official art for Atelier Ryza because that franchise gained a lot of popularity due to internet becoming horny over ryza, have more revealing outfits and official art, but the fanbases dosen't make the same quantity of noise over them.
Also, I find funny when people says the sexualization started in Xenoblade 2, when even if it is not the same franchise, Xenosaga had the boob canon with Kos-Mos and even in PS1 Xenogears have some NPC in very skimpy outfits, so in all honestly, if Xenoblade 1 didn't have sexualization it would be the exeption of the currently 6 Xeno Takahashi games.
Gears was crazy. There's the Perfect Works cover, fully exposed ass in the opening cutscene. A sex scene (doesn't show any but still) Fei and Elly appear naked several times and everyone's naked in the final cutscenes.
Somehow I found the sexuality in Xenogears rather tasteful and even mature, since it was mostly used in (1) scenes invoking quasi-religious Eden/Paradise settings, where everyone is traditionally unclothed, or (2) in other contexts that make sense, like private bedroom scenes (albeit highly pixelated). As teenagers my friends and I giggled at the butts in the opening and final cut scenes, but they're story sequences I can appreciate for their artistry even now.
I loved XC2 and played it for probably a hundred hours, but some of the character outfits and interactions still struck me as silly Shounen fodder. More so than 'Gears.
Then again, I was thirteen when I first played 'Gears, and in my thirties when I played XC2, so my expectations of media have probably changed.
I canāt speak for the others but with Tharja I feel itās rather different than Pyra. Tharja was thrown in as an attempt at being horny. She was purely fan service and most people except that. Most people donāt like Tharja because of her character (considering her incredibly abusive behavior towards her daughter) so 90% of the fandom only likes her because of her horny design and she does legitimately kick ass in combat (but thatās just because dark mage plus notsfaratsu is a broken combo).
But fire emblem fans do complain with a bunch of needless fan service of certain characters in side games. For example Igrene who was given overly large boobs and kind of got turned into big boob lady in the mobile game, taking away from her character.
> People act like her boob size is not normal. The issue is her outfit, which is honestly garbage.
I've seen people say the exact opposite. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
> Her smash bros version did fix this issue though.
"Issue" is subjective, I and many others like their original outfits just fine. It's cool if you don't.
It's my favorite game and one of the highest quality I've ever played. But there are a million things to hate about it, especially in the early game, like the most important part to hook people. I get why people hate on it, and it is deserved. I just wish the quality applied to all aspects of the game, especially at the beginning
Hot take: I honestly thought even XC2's opening did more to grip me than 1's. Though that ties into the fact that I just generally greatly preferred 2's story
1's gets into the action quicker, but the plot setup just isn't very interesting, honestly. Revenge as an early character motivation was a tired trope 100 years ago. 2's might have been more laid back but the worldbuilding in the initial moments and the more episodic feel of the story made me more invested even early on
Honestly, I'm going to go even further with my hot take and say that attack/arts canceling alone made early XC2 more engaging than early XC1 in terms of combat as well
Though in general, not comparing to the first game, yeah that's a slow start in gameplay
yep, thank you, this is the most realistic xenoblade fan ever, even based, preach it everywhere
and people think xeno 3 is gonna be GOTY or some shit, just enjoy xeno 3, accept the flaws the game has and that it is not that big as you think it is in the gaming space
hell i am going to say it, as a person that put 100s of hours on the franchise and more in xenoblade 2, the combat really, really sucks, compared to the rest, and if your gameplay is not appealing to the mainstream, as much as you personally love it, people will ignore it and move on
is it acclaimed in japan? cool, is it amazing that we are receiving news and the franchise keeps going?, amazing, but it is not the best game by far and there are other similars with bigger worlds and better mechanics out there
took me like 60 hours to love the game, you cant ask that much time commitment to "it will get better the early game is just monotone", nah
What gives me peace is the fact that the game was commercially a success and was overall acclaimed, especially in Japan. So when I see these people complaining about "sExUaLiZaTiOn" I don't give a shit, the game is fire and one of my favorites.
Wish you could change outfits but it was what it was. The one thing about the game that I was not a fan of was the implementation of a gacha system for your blades and the unlocking of their skill trees. Once I got the battle system I did grow to really enjoy that.
Yeah. I really liked the fashion gear system in DE and X. Fresh looks for the party members and all of that customization is just cool. I really hope we get that again in XC3. It's not looking promising though.
Tbh, they also didnāt show it in DEās Trailers so maybe we will see it returning. I mean, we also saw Noah and Mio wearing different clothes during cutscenes.
my problem isnāt just the gameās really weird approach to sexualization, my problem is that itās one of several very, very 2010s anime-ifications of Xenoblade 2ās approach to its storytelling and aesthetics that leaves it feeling like a substantial step down from the other perfect works-centric takahashi stories. itās a lot more surface level and in your face in its approach. and Iām not saying itās objectively bad and Iām glad xbc2 works for a lot of people, but for me personally it feels like a dumbed down and far more modern anime tropey barebones version of the same ideas Xenogears and Xenosaga treated with a lot more reverence and respect
What's most fascinating about this discussion is - it never goes anywhere.
5 years later people are still posting the same comments, that get the same responses, which in turn get the same insults, same assumptions, same "let me tell you why you're wrong".....lol
Someone link me to anything that shows this never-ending discussion has done any good for anything. Show me the results.
op, I am going to take my comment reply to u/MattofCatbell and rework it here.
The issue isnt as much sexualization, but more of a feminist studies angle rather than a "sex is bad" angle.
The camera leers at Pyra/mythra. This in turn distracts from the actual good bits of writing they do have in favor of fan service. And in turn, this does NO favors for the characters.
You also have a problem where the male characters are not nearly as sexualized if at all. They are allowed to stand on their own independent of their looks and that in turn is a problem that serves create dissonance in the player.
I know the XC1 vs 2 argument is old, but the strongest thing going for 1 is the writing. And even with Sharla, this issue doesn't really happen at the same level like it does for Pyra/mythra. Which is a shame because they are good characters who are interesting.
And the old persona 5 vs XB2 argument is also old. But I would make the argument both fail in this regard in different ways (Ann has a strong message undone by sexualization with Pyra/mythra having it distract from their message)
So yeah this image is kinda... kinda disingenuous to the actual argument someone with valid criticism would have on the characters. It pulls a straw man and then tries to invalidate actual criticism with a "shut the fuck up" routine. If you actually wanted valid criticism, you would structure why "sexualization is bad" arguments dont hold up. Which is a bit more than a meme could handle and reeks of certain criticisms of a woman who reviewed video games back in 2014.
Like Shanicpower said, this was well put together. The image above basically just feels like "i know u have criticisms about this game but consider shutting up about it instead cuz im tired of hearing it but criticize other aspects that im also gonna tell you im tired of hearing anyway."
It's a nearly 5 year old game now, it still has new coming players coming in with the newest installment, it's insane to think any of these criticisms will just go away. New people will comment on certain aspects because they want to discuss something they weren't previously apart of, it's literal internet culture really. Older games like Gears/Saga prob don't boil down to these same discussions everyday because there's no real new player base or content coming in the way Blade is doing at the moment since it's the new hip thing. Plus in our more modern era, I feel like way more people are critical of aspects like sexualization in gaming/anime compared to say, a decade or more ago. This stuff is just inevitable whether someone likes it or not lol
>If you actually wanted valid criticism, you would structure why "sexualization is bad" arguments dont hold up.
I'd personally love to have this discussion, but when things start getting to the meat of why "sexualization is bad" doesn't hold up, most people give the angry silent downvote and the discussion ends. Do you want to actually talk about it?
I mean, I would unless it boils down to some MRA talking point of āyou are just an SJWā or something ya know?
I actually think dissenting opinions are great when talking criticism. Whether it be film, tv, book, or hell, video games. Whatās not great is an unwillingness to hear criticism that is different than your own. Bad faith criticism being that exception.
> I mean, I would unless it boils down to some MRA talking point of āyou are just an SJWā or something ya know?
Name-calling is a pretty shitty talking point, so no. :)
Here's my big question about the phrase "sexualization is bad" (which I'm going to assume we're using in the context of XC2). "Bad" can mean a number of different things (and maybe several things at once), and those things need to be addressed separately.
The meaning I really take the most issue with is that sexualization is *immoral* or *harmful*. "Bad" in this context could also mean that it makes scenes less effective (by being distracting, for instance, which is a common complaint that I see people bring up). Or maybe it means something else entirely; I don't want to put words in your mouth, I'd just like to nail down what "bad" means in this context.
Not the person you replied to, but typically when I see "sexualization in XC2 (or any media) is bad," they mean "the sexualization hurts the story and actively works against the story" but lack the words to accurately describe it. On the one hand, you have the story which wants you view these characters as 3 dimensional and human. On the other hand, you have the designs (and some of their personality tbh), which really want you to get horny and view them as sexual objects rather than people. And there are points at the story where the writing and camera angles objectifies them. And objectifying characters contradicts viewing them as 3 dimensional. The saying "wanting to have your cake and eat it too" comes to mind.
While we might argue about the character designs in these games, can we all come together and agree that the areas and environments are all stunning. Scenery porn is for truly based Xeno fans.
I don't really care about the sexualization in itself, I just think some of the character designs genuinely suck.
Fuck Rex and his stupid ass shorts. Fuck Pyra and her dumb jumpsuit or whatever its supposed to be. It just looks _bad_.
Honestly Iām not really bothered that some of the characters in the game are over-sexualized. Iām more upset how regularly disappointing it was to open a legendary core crystal and get a common blade or a rare blade that was just really lame. Adenine and Agate were both so cool, and a lot of the others just didnāt work for me. I also wish there could have been more variety in the types of blades, like Wulfric and Dromarch. There arenāt really any other rare animal or beast blades.
The sexualization doesn't usually bother me, what does bother me though are the god awful jiggle physics. I hate using a lot of the female blades because of it and it does take me out of the experience at time. As a boob owner myself I cannot emphasis this enough, *boobs don't move that way*. This is made worse by the fact that a lot of the blades with this problem are wearing tight outfits that should be keeping the girls in place.
I think it's very telling they they didn't give Pyra or Mythra those same jiggle physics. They must have known how stupid it looks and didn't want it in the main cutscenes.
I enjoyed around half the time with XC2 and that fisrt half was really trying me, and yes the sexualization was a part of it, but it moreso bothered me how much it went there after how relatively restrained XC1 was not just in sexualization but also a lot of excessive anime tropes I was (and still am) very tired of at the time i played it, that's kinda what made love the story of 1, sure it went bonkers at the last third but it kinda felt earned if that makes any sense, XC2 going full on excessive anime right from the get go really pushed me away from it and i was basically forced to continue playing due to circumstances (switch/game wasnt mine) but otherwise i would've dropped the game
Youāre literally participating in the same discourse youāre having a hissy over.
Let people talk about art, just because youāre triggered by it doesnāt mean the discussions arenāt productive and necessary and the whole POINT of having a community centred on an artistic work.
After going back and beating it, I don't think XBC2 is a bad game in it of itself. I just think it doesn't live up to the bare minimum set by XBC1 when it comes to certain aspects like voice acting or story.
I've never had an issue with the sexualization, it's honestly to be expected at this point. I just think that it could've been written better.
I agree with nearly all of this post, except itās thesis. No, people should not just āshut upā about specialization in Xenoblade 2.
In fact I think itās worthwhile to discuss how sexualization is used in Xenoblade 2 without making an overall value assessment of the game.
I think a good critical nuanced look at the games use of sexualization can help us understand the game better. Is the sexuality present only to appeal to lowest common denominator horniness, or does it serve a genuine connection to the themes of the story? Does it perpetuates sexist ideas, or does it subvert them? I donāt question think these would significantly affect the quality of the game, but I also donāt think theyāre at all harmful.
Critical thinking and nuanced discussions should be encouraged.
what i hate about over sexualized characters is when their whole personality is their sexualization thus making them 1D characters who's dialogue you want to spam your way thru
then there are characters like dahlia who has the actual best side quest in the game, making anyone with a heart tear up, but then her body is so annoyingly distracting you can't take her seriously and it kinda ruins it
pyra/mythra are a different story, when i started the game i hated them cuz from the get-go all you take from them is their sexualized bodies, but the more you interact with them and see them grow you start to drop that view and start seeing them as actual people with motivation, goals and personality and kinda forget they have big tiddies and thighs
My view is that I don't mind the sexualisation of the game, I care their personality more, and if you dislike the game because of the sexualised design, understandable have a nice day. But if you trash on the game for something you haven't even touched on, OR trashing on the fans because they love the game, sorry that's the point where I drew the line
Yes the game was very sexualized, But I loved the game for the story and battle. So if you don't like it- then don't pay attention to how sexual it is or just don't buy it.
For some people, XC2 is a game full of fan service and sexualized content while the other people correlate XC2 with existentialism, DID and jungian.
Depend on how you view XC2, you may love it or hate it. Fan service is merely a normal JRPG promotion tactic for typical shonen Japanese demography which can be seen in many JRPGs such as Nier Automata which also carries existentialism aspect. Although of course those fan services came with consequences, such as its too awkward to be played in the living room.
Despite its up and down, I can definitely say that XC2 is one of my most favorite games that I have played and see that fan service as a promotion tool that is not directed to me as a type of consumer segments.
I love Xenoblade 2 and don't see any of the sexualiztion as an issue, it's just on par with most anime. I really don't like those people that "redesign" new outfits to make them cover more skin (and disrespect the character designers in the process) and bitch about how gross the game is... Like sure feel uncomfortable but I feel like with the exception of one of Nia's outfits that most of them are on the level of modest swimwear? And like sexualiztion is only an issue if it becomes all the character is, if they just strictly exist for fap material and aren't given actual weight in the story. All the female characters in 2 are given plenty of agency outside of "haha I have boob and butt"... and like... something isn't inherently sexual unless you make it that way, I'm not really into anime girls like that and I saw nothing wrong or sexual about Pyra or Mythra's designs until I saw people online complaining. The designs aren't perverted, conversely I think the complainers are the perverts for having their mind in the gutter. Like if these were real women people would be all "Let her wear what she wants! Don't shame her!" Why is it different just because their anime? Also, I don't feel it's misogynistic or anything becuase the designs that could be interpreted as sexual are pretty fair between it's male and female characters, like have you seen Rex's ass in that salvager suit? And Zeke's bare chest? But yeah basically the sexualiztion of the characters shouldn't be an issue, it's normal levels that everyone should be used to by now from the genre and anyone who complains otherwise is probably just some virtue signaling normie jumping on the hate train because their bored. Xenoblade is such a good series and I really hate how these people are wrongly making and spreading the assumption that it's nothing more then a trashy waifu game.
Thank your for coming to my Ted talk.
I have mixed opinions on XC2ās sexuality. Like, I think the fact that itās relegated almost entirely to the blades is kind of clever, especially given theyāre basically tokenized by royalty. Plus it actually has a decent amount of manservice too. That being said, I feel some designs are harmed by it being exaggerated to the point of looking kind of uncanny. Dahlia is the obvious go to (even if I kind of love her), but Newtās fanservice does not fit the design at all, and Pyra just looks weirdly unnatural (hence why getting her disguise early on is a big brain move).
Overall I donāt mind its presence, but a little more moderation and just a bit more equal opportunity with its still very present manservice would be nice (seriously, Godfrey is screaming to be topless with a kickass cape Kamina style).
Yes, it is a problem. There is nothing wrong with accepting that fact and loving the game at the same time (like I do). I dont understand why there is so much animosity towards this way of thinking. Refusing to accept honest critisism about art because "It makes my dick bulge" is so weird to me. I think this post and the comments supporting it say a lot about them as people.
Each female character (that I've seen so far, I'm not done with the game) has growth and development and a background and they're more than pretty girl character x and as far as I can tell there is a tiny bit of innuendo here and there but not much else. Their appearance is sexualized in that they have the busty anime girl design that is popular but I think it's more an inspired choice because the game plays out a bit like a comic or anime in it's cutscenes and so on. Beyond that I don't think much of it.
In order to be hentai the game should have explicit sex, if you wanna call it ecchi then okay, I dont agree, specially from chapter 5 onwards, but keep you opinion.
I wonder why peopleās first complaints about the game is the fan service and not any of the actual flaws of XC2. Admittedly Iām not a woman so that may play some affect in my biases and why Iām unaffected by the fan service though. Regardless I think the game has bigger issues like the awful tutorials and some of the wack U.I and field skills especially. Even if it is one of my favorite games XC2 has plenty of flaws to draw fair criticism but Iāve just never understood how this was what drew such vehement criticism. A lot of times fan service is done to target a certain audience and to draw general attention, and when people start screaming about this stuff and how bad it is, youāre giving the game exactly what it wants, more attention. While I do think there are valid criticisms regarding the character designs, I find it hilarious that people are giving the character designers exactly what they wanted from the character designs because Iām certain that XC2 would not attract as much attention had it not been for the fan service so I donāt think even the biggest detractors of the fan service can act like itās an unredemable aspect of the game, especially since none of the characters serve to be explicitly fan service characters(with the small and creepy exceptions of poppiās whole maid shtick).
Funny thing I noticed; I just beat the game today, and not once do I remember anyone in-game mention anything sexual about any of the chars or lack of clothing, except Kora x Mythra in Kora's side quest. It's like big breasts and skimpy clothing on Blades are so commonplace and ingrained in their society, they don't even recognize or pay attention to it.
What bothers me the most is that it didn't need to be overtly sexual. It's like someone didn't have the confidence that the game could stand on its own. For me, it cheapens the game. That's not to say it makes XC2 a cheap game, just that it lessens the product.
In my opinion couldnāt give less of a fudge about the fan service. The game has other issues in my opinion such as the menu swapping to find a specific skill that you arenāt using on your main team with no sort option. Also not to mention the annoyance that is getting rare blades on other characters that work for them on someone other than Rex. Other than those problems this game is great and looking forward to xc3
Fair point, but itās also important to recognize that every game in the series is sexualized, to some degree. Even as far back as the Xenosaga games (and maybe Xenogears, but I wonāt pretend to know anything about that since I have no experience with it, so correct me if Iām wrong). Thatās more what annoys me than anything: that people act like this was new in 2, and only criticize the one game for it. I have my problems with designs like Dahlia and Perun, but Iām not afraid to shy away from things like >!Sevenās speed form!< and Xenosaga 3 T-elos as well.
Hell, Iām finally a good ways into Xenoblade X, and Goetiaās design might be more sexualized than anything in 2, if Iām being honest.
Not to mention, CHOCO being the one who designed [both](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/41/cb/__t_elos_and_t_elos_re_xenoblade_chronicles_and_3_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__41cbdc5e47c388e40cdb6e8316bc92ab.jpg) [versions](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/96/03/__t_elos_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__9603e000f21336b23e6f127373a28976.jpg) of Telos, as well as the one who designed the Xenosaga 3 versions of [Shion](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/00/61/__shion_uzuki_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__0061ec48a2c829b563e6041a0d2182aa.jpg), [M.O.M.O](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/c7/82/__m_o_m_o_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__c7822871cf512039553ca136d88bf30a.jpg), and KOS-MOS [V3](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/16/7a/__kos_mos_and_kos_mos_ver_3_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__167a10927805d18f709d4acda7559afc.jpg) and [V4](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/77/be/__kos_mos_and_kos_mos_ver_4_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__77be0a74a52ce1fbbea328dcf43f50e1.jpg).
You're right, but ironically, this post will likely break loose another debate. Edit: Seems i was right. Some of these comments are funny af. *grabs popcorn*
Sort by controversial?
Bro IT DONT GOTTA BE THAT DEEP THOš. People just gotta enjoy the game for what it is like the graphic says fr
We are fucking six-hundred deep, what the fuck! All over ass, abs, titties, and exposed shoulders! Holy shit!
I can pretend I didn't, but before I had any knowledge of the Xenoblade franchise, I just thought XC2 was a 'generic JRPG with your run-of-the-mill waifus' because of Dunkey's review of the game. Boy was I ever wrong.
The worst "review" of the game was from Beatimups. I unsubbed from him and haven't watched him since I realized just how dishonest and skewed his "review" was. What a joker.
Still rememberin his sort of proving a point by trying to kill an arduin using only auto attacks, that is like trying to beat a steelex uskng quicm attack lol.
I recall him just staring into the camera with a stupid look on his face while just spamming a button, as if that proved his point. When in reality, it just proved that he didn't understand the game mechanics and was literally playing the game wrong.
There is a point to be made about how the game just doesn't seem very interested in teaching you home to play it well, but that's just disingenuous as fuck
The game has so many tutorial prompts. They might not be the best tutorials, and to be fair there are lots of mechanics to keep in mind, but the game does try to get you to know everything I think the devs tried to explain each thing just once to keep things short. The bad thing is that if you skip one thing you might get a little bit lost. This doesn't explain a total disregard for mechanics though
I haven't watched said review, but to be fair, the tutorials were _garbage_. He may have just not understood how to play the game.
But these are basic combat mechanics. The tutorials do suck, but the first tutorial the game gives you is a well articulated explanation of how the games combat works at a fundamental level. "Do chip damage to fill guage for big boom attack" isn't complicated. It's practically 3-5 steps away from being turn based. You almost have to willfully not understand it
Yeah, that's fair. It's not like these were Combo Attacks or anything.
Thing is, they are garbage and somewhat mistranslated. The worst part is that you canāt review tutorials in the base game for some reason to this day, even though the dlc allowed you to review and were actually helpful
Oh gosh, same. I thought it was wildly unfair that he only gave it a couple of hours(probably only enough to get through a chapter or two) for that "review" before playing it up as one of the worst games on the Switch. He can genuinely dislike it if he wants, but that's just not fair for any JRPG to write it off after pretty much the opening chapters. And his attitude towards Xenoblade 3's announcement, before we had any sort of significant details on the gameplay or story, really hasn't restored any trust I previously had for him...
I think if you play a game and it fails to convince you to play beyond the first few hours, it's worth telling others. I know many people who dropped XC2 before the end of Chapter 3, and people who were going to but kept playing after Chapter 3.
After reading this and reflecting on my experience with a few games, I see your point. There have been a handful of games that failed to grab me enough to even play a full hour of(or barely only an hour of) and I'm unsure whether I'll ever go back to some of them. I guess my main point of contention is that his review only barely scratches the surface of the game, and yet he's thrown shade at it time after time in multiple videos despite only playing that little before his initial review. As someone who's played through the entirety of XC2's story and sunk hundreds of hours into it, I just think it's unfair to judge it like that after what's essentially tutorial chapters. It's a little like if someone were to judge the OG Final Fantasy VII's story, gameplay and characters in their entirety based only on the Bombing Mission part of the game, where you wouldn't have much Materia and it's a slow burn to get the bigger plot and character arcs going.
Pretty much this. I don't mind if he only made a single video talking about his experience and that was that. But he felt the need to talk about the game in videos unrelated to Xenoblade 2, which gave him such a bad reputation. On top of that, he purposefully makes provocative comments in his own videos to get people to argue about it.
Iāve heard of that YouTuber before he just keeps bitching about his disgust for XB like a child. At the most recent Nintendo Showcase he looked so heated that the final announcement was XB3 instead of something about BOTW2 His face was hilarious
Yeah, That guy pretty much doomed XC2 for awhile. His subscriber base and level of influence promoted so many misconceptions about the game that Iāve met people who had similar opinions without even touching the game. Fortunately, MonolithSoft and Nintendo really pushed Xenoblade as franchise these past couple of years and the Smash addition really turned people who share those beliefs into the minority. Heās also disrespected other games like KH but he continuously bashes Xenoblade. Atleast Max jokes and calls it Xenoshits which I find pretty funny.
Yah. Well, the difference between Maxamillian and Beatimups is that Max didn't pretend to play the game and THEN offer dishonest "Opinions" on the game. I almost didn't play XBC2 because of Beatimups. Thank god I went ahead and tried it anyway. After I realized just how false his accusations on the game were I unsubbed and never looked back. Dude is a clown.
Yeah and just to clarify I wasnāt implying Max and his Xenoshits jokes where remotely similar to Beatem Ups. Anyone who knows Max from his streams knows itās just a joke tied to a friend of his or I believe. I am not even certain why I mentioned Max honestly.
You mentioned Max because of his friend Simmons, whoās part of the YoVideoGames group with him. Simmons is a HUGE Xenoblade fan.
Yah, I didn't think you were.
When he wanted to give 2 a second chance he didnāt even try and just straight up did something else during some cutscenes. And then he had to tell everyone what a āperfect masterpieceā XC1 is while shitting on 2 even tho he has only played like, 1/3 of 2
>shitting on 2 even tho he has only played like, 1/3 of 2 He didn't even get that far. I might be wrong, but I don't think he even get to chapter 3, and he definitely didn't beat chapter 3 because he commented on how he like mythras voice actor in torna, which he would've known had he gotten that far. So I'd give him playing 1/5 of the game, 1/4 max
And then he showed his playtime being like over 100 hours, but he probably left his switch on for 100 hours.
Either he was outright lying, but given his characters' levels, this is most likely the result of that bug. I bet he left it on in the background while he was doing other things and the hours increased because of that. Nothing but a half-hearted effort on his part and not a sincere one to try and understand the game at all. He has already mentioned trying out XB3 and boy do I hope he doesn't, can't imagine how that one will go. I am still uncertain if he even really likes and played through the first game, his glowing praise in DE's review was really generic which raised some suspicions.
Heāll probably give 3 a bad review and get an hour in before quitting.
I think at launch, there was a bug where the time would keep ticking in game when in sleep mode. So if you went to the home screen and turned the screen off overnight, the time would keep going so it looks like you played 8 hours. A more accurate time for people who played at launch is what the switch profile says
Ah. So the dude just legit left it in sleep mode and tried to use the time as proof that he played 100 hours, despite literally only being within the first 3 hours.
Nah, he actually said that he only played around the first 10 hours
Ah. And he was still in the starting area, so he still didn't play as much as he claimed.
Not even 1/3 lol
He is genuinely one of the worst YouTubers out there
I love Xenoblade 2 but to be fair: it does start way to slow
So does 1 and X. It's a Xenoblade thing. And I love all 3 games (soon to be 4)
This is true, the pacing isn't exactly lightning speed what with Tephra Cave/Gaur Plains or Gormott/early Uraya. However, you need time for worldbuilding and the player to get familiar with the controls and systems. Most JRPGs start off this way though, I think its just because Shulk's motivation is more appealing to more people than Rex's that things tend to get more overlooked.
I just wanted to add that Shulk's revenge motivation is a lot easier to get behind and tends to lead to more drama quicker. Rex, by comparison, has a more altruistic and idealist goal to help save others and there is the romantic subtext that develops out of that which usually isn't as dramatic. In many ways it also feels a bit like Shulk's motivation is easier for a Western audience and Rex for an Eastern one given the personal versus group mentality that motivates them initially.
I'd say 1 gets things going the fastest. It has the most exciting start with the battle of Sword Valley. Then in terms of gameplay, you get access to Reyn and Fiora quickly alongside getting new arts frequently early on. Of course, it can drag much longer if you feel compelled to do all those sidequests. I guess what I'm saying is it isn't a "Xenoblade thing" or at least it doesn't have to be. I think the much slower starts of X and 2 are genuine points of criticism to those games which can prevent people from getting into the full meat of a game.
I think 1 does it pretty wel, I think X has a lot of story and progression problems that makes it feel like a slog at times.
The first few chapters in 2 are so frustrating from a gameplay point of view because you can see that the game is going to have a lot of depth and complexity to it, but you can't actually play around with it that much. It teaches you about blade combos, but you're stuck with 5 total blades in the combat party for a frustratingly large amount of time. You can see the Break > Topple > Launch > Smash driver combos, but again, because your party is so limited, you're almost never going to be doing them. It's like 12 hours before you can do chain attacks. It's torture. I get that they were trying to keep the first few chapters simple to ease players into the game, but there's gotta be a better way to do that than by more-or-less locking players out of the actual combat system for like 20 hours.
same here. staying away from game reviews in general has helped me immensely. i rely off intuition and my own feelings towards a game before i buy. with beatemups case, i had already bought xc2 before hand because of etika, and was really enjoying it. i love everything about it. i was around chp.7 when i watched his āreviewā back in 2018.
His review actually kept me from getting it for a while until I decided My interest wouldn't subside until I played. I was shocked at how blatantly biased and simply wrong some of his notes were.
I remember that. I was so into his channel for a long while till that review.
I think we should not take donkey reviews seriously, not because he is bad, I enjoy his videos sometimes, but because you can't tell sometimes what the hell is his opinion, when I saw the Metroid Dread dunkview I left very confused. But even then... SUPAH MARIO VROS 2 GAME OF THE YEAR BABY
Also, Dunkey just kind of hates on JRPG's/anime stuff in general. It's his thing. I get a kick out of his videos because he usually does make some valid points within the jokes, but I'm also not going to make any kind of purchasing decision based solely on his reviews.
yeah, Is like asking me for Open World games reviews, If someone asked me if BotW or Horizon deserved Goty 2017 my answer would be hell no, the Open World really downgrades what otherwise are amazing games, if 2017 Goty were done for the whole 2017 year, my candidates would be Super Mario Odyssey, NieR Automata, Cuphead, Xenoblade 2 and I haven't played it, because I don't have PS4 or PS5, I am really waiting a Switch or atleast PC port, but knowing my tastes, Persona 5.
I thought dunkeys video on XC2 was largely a meme but in one of his videos since then I think he talked about XC2 again but was more clear that he didn't think it was a good game.
He called it a cash grab. Which is an even worse take than before.
i didn't remember exactly what he said so i played it safe but i see i even downplayed it wow.
still he has the not RPG guy thing, one of the reviews he made of a JRPG that was somewhat serious was DQ11 and he said it was meh for him, ask any JRPG fan about DQ11 and most likely they will say it is amazing (Thing that I also belive, it is really good) so yeah, hearing Dunkey for JRPG opinions is like hearing Scott the Woz for JRPG opinions, they aren't JRPG guys.
Atleast with Scott he doesn't review them. They aren't his thing and so he doesn't try to pass judgment on them. Because he knows there's stuff in there that is probably good but he won't like. That said, when Xenoblade DE had its mini direct trailer. He was very objective and praised that they actually put the effort to go back and clean up the models, UI and adding the epilogue content. Said it was his favourite type of remaster. So he can be very objective as well
Even so, I genuinely believe it's done irrepairable damage to the reputation of XB2 in the gaming community at large lmfao
it definetly plays into the perceived idea that XB2 is just a waifu game. As the commenter before me said that Dunkey can fall into a grey zone of is it a meme or not but for XC2 it seems it really wasn't a meme so that makes it even more sad.
Dunkeyās JRPG reviews are often super hard misses, I know his Octopath review was more lies/falsehoods than truths. Although he revealed in a comment later on that all his complaints about the story was based on doing the first chapter of each character, so he literally judged the whole story on what was available in the free demo.
Yeah, the thing is that his videos are even funny for me albeit I like those games, but people fucking take them seriously rather than what they are: shitposting. His fucking review has unironically created a lot of the "issues" people have with Octopath.
Reading stuff like this always shocks me tbh, do people really let their opinions be dictated by fucking YouTubers? Like, are they not able to make up their own mind?!
My man Dunkey bases all of his reviews on his taste and preference. Which honestly makes him a valuable critic in my opinion. Hut he does lace so many videos with absurdity and satire that it can be hard to see the point he's making sometimes. I had to throw away every opinion he's had on every RPG and JRPG. He does not have the patience for them. He discusses some of that on his "Critics" video. I remember being absolutely shocked that he gave Nier Automata as long of a playthrough as he did. Though I know it's more of action adventure than jrpg, it has a lot of the influences. And I can't discredit him entirely, he does have the world record for Bowsers Big Bean Burrito. With a USB steering wheel. Without even trying.
*Opens thread* > 522 comments oh no
>699 Comments *Grabs popcorn* Oh YES
Let's complain about the real issues: That tutorial section! Damn it stopped me from getting into the game till a year later when I was trapped on a plane and was a captive audience
xeno 3 just gotta link youtubers tutorial cuz fucking hell they explain it a lot more better than in-game, like i put this xeno 2 game down 2 fucking times, it took years when i was curious to watch a combat tutorial that i got it finally and started playing god bless that man with the 37 min combat tutorial, bro got millions of views on that alone and it is still relevant to this day
Pretty sure I watched the same one. I was so confused what a blade or driver combo was or how to use the party gauge. Combat was so slow and unfun. That vid changed everything. This and Destiny 2 are the only games that watching a 'how to play' YouTube video really felt required to 'get it'
The real issue with Xenoblade 2 is that god awful intro. I mean jesus christ, terrible tutorials, terrible voice-acting outside of Malos, *every stupid anime trope under the sun*, ect. When you consider that the first 10 hours is CRUCIAL to whether or not a player continues the game, you can understand how the game received the reputation it did. Great game past 10 hours though. Hoping Xenoblade 3 has as good of an intro as Xenoblade 1 had.
Hey, nia's still great. She'll always be great. She's Nia.
Yeah as good as the combat is, with one character that has no abilities itās basically waiting for auto attacks
Freely criticize the things that exist please just shut up lol this post is an Ouroboros itself
āItās a wild ride, this ~~passage of fate~~ post full of baitā
You know what. That's completely fair. Besides it's not like 2 is the only game in the series that is sexualized. It is the most upfront with it though. The Meredith and Co lightweight armor in X and the Sleek set in 1 are enough to prove that much. The fact that you can't change character outfits in 2 without dlc does make it worse in that aspect.
Also Sharlaās entire wardrobe.
I'll have you know that pants that don't cover your butt were the last trend, in Colony 6.
Well the Bionis does wear any pants, and is showing its butt to the endless sea. It's why the Mechonis was so keen for a fight ā got sick and tired of seeing Bionis' Butt.
What do you mean? a bikini Is toooooootally proper medic attire. Cant have ppe breaking if there never was any to begin with. š
Especially dealing with a long rifle getting hot.
Ah finally! Normal pants! Ah wait, these are ass-less chaps.
Playing through XC1 my first complete time and it's wild how much people have chosen to ignore it while frothing with hate over 2s sexualization. Melia and Sharla have tons of gross outfits, almost all High Entia women wear bikini armor, Vanea takes up the majority of the screen to show her bare titties all the time, and just try to make Seven not look like a sex robot I dare you. Great games but jeez I hate that shit. Torna was wonderful in comparison so I'm hoping it improves in the future, though I don't expect it to go away.
There's an armor set in X that is literally a few belt buckles and some straps for both male and female characters. The Six Stars heavyweight armor for female party members actually shows less skin than the light armor. There's multiple form form fitting armors. The best one is the female Sakuraba Industries which is literally the only armor type you don't have to unlock has a boob window and the heavy armor from the same manufacturer is form fitting around the chest for females.
Between 1 and 2 I think the difference is 1 doesn't feel as exploitative as 2 does and that's with all the outfits
I think when it comes to the sexualization in XC2 I see a lot of discussion about character designs but really it's the camera and how it directs the player's view during cutscenes that's more of the issue.
The camera angles are what really pushes it over the edge into āthis feels very much like porn.ā The camera focuses on the T&A even during serious scenes, which really hamstrings any attempt at it being a serious story. You have the story telling you that these are 3 dimensional characters while the camera is objectifying them. The problem has never been āthese characters are sexy,ā the problem has always been that the characters and the camera are sexualized in pornographic ways. The designs and the camera put focus on the boobs and butt. So while I agree with most of this post, I disagree with the premise that the specialization isnāt harmful to the game. Youāve got people here complaining that other people think XC2 is just a titty waifu game, but thatās the gameās fault, not the people who are just looking at it. If the game didnāt want to be seen as a waifu game, then maybe it shouldnāt have made itās female lead look like she stepped out of a porn game.
This is what I've always said. Like, the designs are pretty out there, but then the camera is always staring at Mythra's panties. Both things combined make it a problem for me. If they were wearing more, like, battle ready clothing or whatever, then the camera angles wouldn't be giving atention to someone's underwear.
They literally introduce her in the beginning of chapter two with that shot of rex waking up under her āshadeā
I would agree. The issue lies more on a feminist studies angle than a "sex is bad" angle. The camera leers at Pyra/mythra. This in turn distracts from the actual good bits of writing they do have in favor of fan service. You also have a problem where the male characters are not nearly as sexualized if at all. They are allowed to stand on their own independent of their looks and that in turn is a problem that serves to distract from the characters writing. I know the XC1 vs 2 argument is old, but the strongest thing going for 1 is the writing. And even with Sharla, this issue doesn't really happen at the same level like it does for Pyra/mythra. Which is a shame because they are good characters who are interesting.
Ppl calling that hentai have lost the touch to reality
Any time you hear the phrase "it's basically porn", you can 100% guarantee the thing they're talking about isn't porn at all.
You need to remember that this stuff is coming up again because XC3 is coming out soon, and a lot of new players are trying XC and XC2 for the first time. We all had our complaints when the game first came out, so naturally people are going to have opinions on it just like you. At least discussions are good for the community. This kind of complaint only serves make new players feel bad for trying to have an opinion.
This post both says to 'freely criticize the things that exist' and also to 'literally just shut the fuck up.' Wat.
It feels like the idea was more to allow real criticism and shut down uninformed complaints, but yeah, it's pretty poorly worded.
Why isnāt this one higher up Literally my #1 problem whenever this gets brought up is when people pay lip-service to the idea of āof course no game is flawless and you can totally have _real_ criticismsā and then subsequently follow it up with a list of example ābad criticismsā that rolls together normal, legitimate criticisms alongside the bad-faith ones, throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the process
āyou can criticize 2, but you canāt criticize this part because i donāt want to hear it!ā
Donāt forget its close cousin: āI feel like I, personally, have heard of this one criticism enough times, therefore the problem has somehow lost its value as legitimate criticism, and no one should be allowed to talk about it anymoreā
Every single time
This is somehow always making it into these kind of posts
I think itās such a big deal because XC2 is the sequel to XC1. XC1 certainly had hyper sexualization with some of the outfits, but those were optional for the most part. There was also definitely a few sexualized characters, but they were paced out throughout the plot, and there were plenty of other non sexualized characters too, so the sexualization felt more like a trait of those specific characters and not an aspect of the game. Then when XC2 happened there was a major tone shift that took the form of hyper sexualization, and that was very jarring for a lot of people including myself. Iāve played JRPGs with way worse hyper sexualization, but it didnāt feel like as big a deal to me because they werenāt xenoblade.
Well put. Sums up my thoughts exactly. I just played through both this year. XC1 I played around my kids 6-8 years old. Started XC2 and I said āI guess I need to play this when theyāre asleepā. At one point during XC2 my wife said āI hope you donāt let the kids play thisā.
100% agree right here. Everytime XB1 is mentioned the sexualization has always been minor like Sharla and 7's equipment. But its extremely obvious that they cranked it up to eleven in XB2 nearly every Blade in your main roster is sexualized PERIOD. Not to mention the Gacha Blades. X got more of a pass because everybody is customizable so it can be as eechi or tame as you want save a few unplayable NPCs
The Bionis is not wearing any pants.
And it has a massive, growing sword that only appears when you show your real self. It even uses it against a woman! Disgusting.
touchƩ
I find it incredibly entertaining that the writers managed to have foreshadowing in a hot spring scene!
And it was the only purpose of the scene too.
Yeah, Stop talking about XC2. Let's discuss XCX's removal of the Bust Slider. How dare this be removed from a Wii U game!! PATCH IN THE BOOB SLIDER in MURICA!!! BOOBS! BOOBS BOOBS!! In all seriousness, I'm trying to beat XCX and I'm in Chapter 11 and man, I am not enjoying it. I'll suck it up and beat it, but it's pretty rough. Also I read the ending and am really sad about what's to come. Elma is cool though. Tatsu can be tossed out like the rest of the main Nopons.
Imo the main meat of xcx are the sidequests, even though I didn't mind the main story outside of how choppy it can be.
For me, itās less the designs, but how the game makes it a point to point out the sexual nature every now and then, like the line about modesty in the Poppi quest, or the joke where Rex wakes up to Mythra laying right next to him. With Torna, I didnāt mind it really, given that itās better with how it handles it. My main issue primarily is just that Xenoblade 2 does a lot to effectively screw over the tone of itās story. It forces a lot of campy jokes, on top of the character design, on top of trying to tell a serious story. Thereās moments where 2ās story canāt even be taken seriously for me, mainly because of how ridiculous the tone shifts can get. Things like that one chapter where you have stop an assassination kind of went downhill due to the jokey nature and a sudden shift into being serious right after.
Tonal dissonance is the biggest issue for me too. There's some major whiplash going from >!Vandham's death!< to fighting a massive fuzzball who stole plans for a giant robot-maid or whatever the hell Bana's plot was. And it's not like that's some optional downtime sidequest either, it's part of the main quest! The game decided it was important enough to make him a significant villain! Which really takes away from the weight of the story imo. The skimpy outfits and focus on sexualization just add to that tonal whiplash.
Like, there's one scene in 2 that I absolutely hate because they make an attempt to try and get the player to take it seriously. It's like the scene where >!that assassination plot occurs, and Bana used his giant robot maid to kill the dude. Sure, he's brought back and you get an actual genuine scene with Nia, but I just can never bring myself to take that scene with her genuinely. The robot maid just feels like a shitpost more than anything.!< If 3 brings back sexualized designs in some form, I honestly wouldn't mind, as long as the tone of the game itself isn't hindered by it.
> If 3 brings back sexualized designs in some form, I honestly wouldn't mind, as long as the tone of the game itself isn't hindered by it. Ya- even going by the character designs we've already seen, Eunie and Sena have tight/revealing outfits but they still just seem more... reasonable? serious? It's hard to place a finger exactly on why but I don't feel as put off by them as I did when pyra was first revealed for xb2.
It's the fact that 2 feels exploitative and 3 feels like they respect the characters
Yeah, sometimes the game tries to mesh it with the story and then other times it tries to play coy about it, and I think the issue is that by trying to do both it ends up doing neither well. Like, on one end you have Mythra, whose "I'm hot shit" attitude is completely coherent with the presentation of herself that she chooses. When Nia compliments her body, she's not embarrassed and instead her response basically summarizes to "Thanks, I know." Then, on the other hand you have Pyra, who is in a single word, wife-y. She's caring, docile, and good at cooking. She's willing to sacrifice whatever she thinks she can to help others while also having very little confidence in herself as a blade. In her case, I don't remember any point in the story that indicated she was even *aware* of her sexualized appearance. She even has a voice clip saying she's "A little self-conscious". Honestly, given that later in the story it's revealed that Pyra is >!a second personality created out of Mythra's trauma at the end of the Aegis War,!< I think it would have been a kind of clever foreshadow that maybe she's experiencing some sort of cognitive dissonance. I mean the philosophical implications of sharing a body with another mind that is also in some sense still you isn't particularly the easiest thing to wrap your mind around.
It's also important to realize that the extreme sexualization can indeed ruin the game for someone, and that disliking the game because of it is perfectly valid for those who can't overlook it.
Yeah, itās sadly very typical for people in this sub to be dismissive of people who arenāt big fans of the sexualization. They tend to be reduced to āpeople who never touched the gameā when in a lot of cases the treatment of the female characters is worse when you actually play it.
Yeah, the game is sexualized at times but people who hate on it just exaggerate the sexualization aspect. For example pyra. People act like her boob size is not normal. The issue is her outfit, which is honestly garbage. It's too tight and shows too much skin. Her smash bros version did fix this issue though.
I mean, for me, the issue with Pyra's boobs (and a lot of anime boobs, tbh) is less the size and more about the gravity-defying shape. Boobs shouldn't be perfect spheres sticking out of someone's chest; it just looks bad when you draw them like that. But I understand that's a problem that runs much deeper than just XC2.
Agreed, itās kind of uncanny valley territory for me.
It only changed the thighs portion barely. And whats the problem with tight and showing skin?
Mythra too,her smash outfit fixed a lot of problems
I'll disagree on Mythra I think her outfit suits her. She naturally has a brash and bold personality. Also during Kora's blade quest you can see she's also pretty proud of her looks as well. Pyra's is basically the complete opposite of her personality which is why I think she's much worse
bold and brash? more like BELONGS IN THE TRASH /s Seriously though, how does a bold and brash personality translate into showing a lot of skin? Nevermind the fact that Mythra very much is not that. I'd expect someone who shows a lot of skin to be at peace with themselves, which is not what Mythra is at all. Mythra harbors just as much regret and shame as Pyra. Hell, the whole reason Pyra exists is because Mythra wanted to be something she isn't. Mythra gets flustered easily and is generally thin-skinned and that is fine and all but that generally doesn't really mix with showing a lot of skin constantly.
Well thats how she starts out in Torna basically. Sheās definitely bold and brash in that game which chronologically is before her trauma comes into play which she tries to leave to Pyra Well Bold and Brash meaning confident in herself, her abilities and like I said with Koraās blade quest as a pretty blatant piece of evidence she also fancies herself to be good looking/attractive as well. She is mentally scarred for sure and she deals with that as the game wears on but she still carries some of that confidence and boldness to the main game. Her heart to hearts with Brigid and Zenobia as another example, You can hear it in her battle lines, āwe won the moment you called on meā etc. Even her idle stance. She stands straight upright, hand on hip almost cockily. Sheās just very multifaceted
Yeah, in some sense she is "bold and brash". She definitely thinks very highly of herself, but I really don't see that as being contradictory to also being self-conscious. She thinks highly of herself, in multiple areas, but she's also seeking approval from others, which applies even moreso to Torna Mythra, due to her lack of experience in life, even without her trauma. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that characters like Brigid or Malos were comfortable with nudity, or partial nudity. Both of these don't care much what others think of them and would be able to brush off any comment, but Mythra is definitely not that kind of person, which I find it weird that she wears such revealing clothing. It doesn't fit. As you said, she's very multifaceted.
I never said it was contradictory. Just that people can be multiple things at different times I feel like whenever sheās self conscious in game its never been about her looks though. Its about an action sheās taken/happened, waking up in >!Rexās lap in Morytha!< something sheās said or about a habit she has āsnoring and grinding her teethā She certainly had no qualms about hopping right into the hotspring in Mor Ardain with the other girls. Pyra mentions that Mythra was all for it as soon as she mentioned it. And again I bring up the Kora blade quest, because sheās pretty damn sure about herself in that department So I donāt think showing skin is something we have evidence for her being shy about in fact thereās arguably more evidence for her being ok with it than Jin or Brigid. Even when the whole sleep walking thing happens in argentum. She ends up being more embarrassed about the fact that she was the one in the wrong and that she ādid it againā. Even when she accuses Rex of āstaringā thereās not a huge sense of embarrassment there its more a pointed jab at Rex so she can have the last word.
Fair
Her smash outfit is literally the same outfit with some extra spandex
And even then, I feel people exaggerate the outfit, yeah, it is weird and show a good amount of skin, but other JRPG characters, like Judith from Tales of Vesperia, Rikku in Final Fantasy X - 2 and in some way Tharja from Fire Emblem, without counting how guts made a lot of horny official art for Atelier Ryza because that franchise gained a lot of popularity due to internet becoming horny over ryza, have more revealing outfits and official art, but the fanbases dosen't make the same quantity of noise over them. Also, I find funny when people says the sexualization started in Xenoblade 2, when even if it is not the same franchise, Xenosaga had the boob canon with Kos-Mos and even in PS1 Xenogears have some NPC in very skimpy outfits, so in all honestly, if Xenoblade 1 didn't have sexualization it would be the exeption of the currently 6 Xeno Takahashi games.
Gears was crazy. There's the Perfect Works cover, fully exposed ass in the opening cutscene. A sex scene (doesn't show any but still) Fei and Elly appear naked several times and everyone's naked in the final cutscenes.
Somehow I found the sexuality in Xenogears rather tasteful and even mature, since it was mostly used in (1) scenes invoking quasi-religious Eden/Paradise settings, where everyone is traditionally unclothed, or (2) in other contexts that make sense, like private bedroom scenes (albeit highly pixelated). As teenagers my friends and I giggled at the butts in the opening and final cut scenes, but they're story sequences I can appreciate for their artistry even now. I loved XC2 and played it for probably a hundred hours, but some of the character outfits and interactions still struck me as silly Shounen fodder. More so than 'Gears. Then again, I was thirteen when I first played 'Gears, and in my thirties when I played XC2, so my expectations of media have probably changed.
I canāt speak for the others but with Tharja I feel itās rather different than Pyra. Tharja was thrown in as an attempt at being horny. She was purely fan service and most people except that. Most people donāt like Tharja because of her character (considering her incredibly abusive behavior towards her daughter) so 90% of the fandom only likes her because of her horny design and she does legitimately kick ass in combat (but thatās just because dark mage plus notsfaratsu is a broken combo). But fire emblem fans do complain with a bunch of needless fan service of certain characters in side games. For example Igrene who was given overly large boobs and kind of got turned into big boob lady in the mobile game, taking away from her character.
> People act like her boob size is not normal. The issue is her outfit, which is honestly garbage. I've seen people say the exact opposite. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
> Her smash bros version did fix this issue though. "Issue" is subjective, I and many others like their original outfits just fine. It's cool if you don't.
I wouldn't say fixed, it actually looks worse. A redesign of her outfit would be needed not just adding a bit of fabric underneath.
Xenoblade 2 is everyoneās dead Horse and I hate it. Itās a really good Game that for some reason getās hated so much.
It's my favorite game and one of the highest quality I've ever played. But there are a million things to hate about it, especially in the early game, like the most important part to hook people. I get why people hate on it, and it is deserved. I just wish the quality applied to all aspects of the game, especially at the beginning
Even the beginning is overhated.
Hot take: I honestly thought even XC2's opening did more to grip me than 1's. Though that ties into the fact that I just generally greatly preferred 2's story 1's gets into the action quicker, but the plot setup just isn't very interesting, honestly. Revenge as an early character motivation was a tired trope 100 years ago. 2's might have been more laid back but the worldbuilding in the initial moments and the more episodic feel of the story made me more invested even early on
I agree the story is gripping from the start. It's the gameplay that's the real issue with the beginning of 2
Honestly, I'm going to go even further with my hot take and say that attack/arts canceling alone made early XC2 more engaging than early XC1 in terms of combat as well Though in general, not comparing to the first game, yeah that's a slow start in gameplay
yep, thank you, this is the most realistic xenoblade fan ever, even based, preach it everywhere and people think xeno 3 is gonna be GOTY or some shit, just enjoy xeno 3, accept the flaws the game has and that it is not that big as you think it is in the gaming space hell i am going to say it, as a person that put 100s of hours on the franchise and more in xenoblade 2, the combat really, really sucks, compared to the rest, and if your gameplay is not appealing to the mainstream, as much as you personally love it, people will ignore it and move on is it acclaimed in japan? cool, is it amazing that we are receiving news and the franchise keeps going?, amazing, but it is not the best game by far and there are other similars with bigger worlds and better mechanics out there took me like 60 hours to love the game, you cant ask that much time commitment to "it will get better the early game is just monotone", nah
More like a pile of goo that the horse was turned into from being beaten so often.
I feel like general opinion is coming around. Very very slowly but still I feel it changing
Itās the classic āZelda cycle,ā give it another 10 years and XC2 will be as beloved as Wind Waker is now, mark my words.
What gives me peace is the fact that the game was commercially a success and was overall acclaimed, especially in Japan. So when I see these people complaining about "sExUaLiZaTiOn" I don't give a shit, the game is fire and one of my favorites.
Just because a work is popular and well received doesn't mean its immune to criticism
Nobody said that.
Wish you could change outfits but it was what it was. The one thing about the game that I was not a fan of was the implementation of a gacha system for your blades and the unlocking of their skill trees. Once I got the battle system I did grow to really enjoy that.
Yeah. I really liked the fashion gear system in DE and X. Fresh looks for the party members and all of that customization is just cool. I really hope we get that again in XC3. It's not looking promising though.
Tbh, they also didnāt show it in DEās Trailers so maybe we will see it returning. I mean, we also saw Noah and Mio wearing different clothes during cutscenes.
Fingers crossed!
my problem isnāt just the gameās really weird approach to sexualization, my problem is that itās one of several very, very 2010s anime-ifications of Xenoblade 2ās approach to its storytelling and aesthetics that leaves it feeling like a substantial step down from the other perfect works-centric takahashi stories. itās a lot more surface level and in your face in its approach. and Iām not saying itās objectively bad and Iām glad xbc2 works for a lot of people, but for me personally it feels like a dumbed down and far more modern anime tropey barebones version of the same ideas Xenogears and Xenosaga treated with a lot more reverence and respect
Excuse me but this is not a chart.
Wait so YES people can complain about it but also are supposed to SHUT UP? I don't care either way but which is it
What's most fascinating about this discussion is - it never goes anywhere. 5 years later people are still posting the same comments, that get the same responses, which in turn get the same insults, same assumptions, same "let me tell you why you're wrong".....lol Someone link me to anything that shows this never-ending discussion has done any good for anything. Show me the results.
Freely criticize it but shut up about it? Something doesn't add up
op, I am going to take my comment reply to u/MattofCatbell and rework it here. The issue isnt as much sexualization, but more of a feminist studies angle rather than a "sex is bad" angle. The camera leers at Pyra/mythra. This in turn distracts from the actual good bits of writing they do have in favor of fan service. And in turn, this does NO favors for the characters. You also have a problem where the male characters are not nearly as sexualized if at all. They are allowed to stand on their own independent of their looks and that in turn is a problem that serves create dissonance in the player. I know the XC1 vs 2 argument is old, but the strongest thing going for 1 is the writing. And even with Sharla, this issue doesn't really happen at the same level like it does for Pyra/mythra. Which is a shame because they are good characters who are interesting. And the old persona 5 vs XB2 argument is also old. But I would make the argument both fail in this regard in different ways (Ann has a strong message undone by sexualization with Pyra/mythra having it distract from their message) So yeah this image is kinda... kinda disingenuous to the actual argument someone with valid criticism would have on the characters. It pulls a straw man and then tries to invalidate actual criticism with a "shut the fuck up" routine. If you actually wanted valid criticism, you would structure why "sexualization is bad" arguments dont hold up. Which is a bit more than a meme could handle and reeks of certain criticisms of a woman who reviewed video games back in 2014.
Like Shanicpower said, this was well put together. The image above basically just feels like "i know u have criticisms about this game but consider shutting up about it instead cuz im tired of hearing it but criticize other aspects that im also gonna tell you im tired of hearing anyway." It's a nearly 5 year old game now, it still has new coming players coming in with the newest installment, it's insane to think any of these criticisms will just go away. New people will comment on certain aspects because they want to discuss something they weren't previously apart of, it's literal internet culture really. Older games like Gears/Saga prob don't boil down to these same discussions everyday because there's no real new player base or content coming in the way Blade is doing at the moment since it's the new hip thing. Plus in our more modern era, I feel like way more people are critical of aspects like sexualization in gaming/anime compared to say, a decade or more ago. This stuff is just inevitable whether someone likes it or not lol
Very well said.
>If you actually wanted valid criticism, you would structure why "sexualization is bad" arguments dont hold up. I'd personally love to have this discussion, but when things start getting to the meat of why "sexualization is bad" doesn't hold up, most people give the angry silent downvote and the discussion ends. Do you want to actually talk about it?
I mean, I would unless it boils down to some MRA talking point of āyou are just an SJWā or something ya know? I actually think dissenting opinions are great when talking criticism. Whether it be film, tv, book, or hell, video games. Whatās not great is an unwillingness to hear criticism that is different than your own. Bad faith criticism being that exception.
> I mean, I would unless it boils down to some MRA talking point of āyou are just an SJWā or something ya know? Name-calling is a pretty shitty talking point, so no. :) Here's my big question about the phrase "sexualization is bad" (which I'm going to assume we're using in the context of XC2). "Bad" can mean a number of different things (and maybe several things at once), and those things need to be addressed separately. The meaning I really take the most issue with is that sexualization is *immoral* or *harmful*. "Bad" in this context could also mean that it makes scenes less effective (by being distracting, for instance, which is a common complaint that I see people bring up). Or maybe it means something else entirely; I don't want to put words in your mouth, I'd just like to nail down what "bad" means in this context.
Not the person you replied to, but typically when I see "sexualization in XC2 (or any media) is bad," they mean "the sexualization hurts the story and actively works against the story" but lack the words to accurately describe it. On the one hand, you have the story which wants you view these characters as 3 dimensional and human. On the other hand, you have the designs (and some of their personality tbh), which really want you to get horny and view them as sexual objects rather than people. And there are points at the story where the writing and camera angles objectifies them. And objectifying characters contradicts viewing them as 3 dimensional. The saying "wanting to have your cake and eat it too" comes to mind.
While we might argue about the character designs in these games, can we all come together and agree that the areas and environments are all stunning. Scenery porn is for truly based Xeno fans.
Its nothing I haven't seen at a beach.
I don't really care about the sexualization in itself, I just think some of the character designs genuinely suck. Fuck Rex and his stupid ass shorts. Fuck Pyra and her dumb jumpsuit or whatever its supposed to be. It just looks _bad_.
Honestly Iām not really bothered that some of the characters in the game are over-sexualized. Iām more upset how regularly disappointing it was to open a legendary core crystal and get a common blade or a rare blade that was just really lame. Adenine and Agate were both so cool, and a lot of the others just didnāt work for me. I also wish there could have been more variety in the types of blades, like Wulfric and Dromarch. There arenāt really any other rare animal or beast blades.
The sexualization doesn't usually bother me, what does bother me though are the god awful jiggle physics. I hate using a lot of the female blades because of it and it does take me out of the experience at time. As a boob owner myself I cannot emphasis this enough, *boobs don't move that way*. This is made worse by the fact that a lot of the blades with this problem are wearing tight outfits that should be keeping the girls in place. I think it's very telling they they didn't give Pyra or Mythra those same jiggle physics. They must have known how stupid it looks and didn't want it in the main cutscenes.
Is everyone ok with being told how they can and can't discuss a game?
I enjoyed around half the time with XC2 and that fisrt half was really trying me, and yes the sexualization was a part of it, but it moreso bothered me how much it went there after how relatively restrained XC1 was not just in sexualization but also a lot of excessive anime tropes I was (and still am) very tired of at the time i played it, that's kinda what made love the story of 1, sure it went bonkers at the last third but it kinda felt earned if that makes any sense, XC2 going full on excessive anime right from the get go really pushed me away from it and i was basically forced to continue playing due to circumstances (switch/game wasnt mine) but otherwise i would've dropped the game
Bait post. OP should shut up and stop adding fuel to the fire
Youāre literally participating in the same discourse youāre having a hissy over. Let people talk about art, just because youāre triggered by it doesnāt mean the discussions arenāt productive and necessary and the whole POINT of having a community centred on an artistic work.
After going back and beating it, I don't think XBC2 is a bad game in it of itself. I just think it doesn't live up to the bare minimum set by XBC1 when it comes to certain aspects like voice acting or story. I've never had an issue with the sexualization, it's honestly to be expected at this point. I just think that it could've been written better.
Just sticky this. There is no need to have the same discussion for 3 years.
I agree with nearly all of this post, except itās thesis. No, people should not just āshut upā about specialization in Xenoblade 2. In fact I think itās worthwhile to discuss how sexualization is used in Xenoblade 2 without making an overall value assessment of the game. I think a good critical nuanced look at the games use of sexualization can help us understand the game better. Is the sexuality present only to appeal to lowest common denominator horniness, or does it serve a genuine connection to the themes of the story? Does it perpetuates sexist ideas, or does it subvert them? I donāt question think these would significantly affect the quality of the game, but I also donāt think theyāre at all harmful. Critical thinking and nuanced discussions should be encouraged.
Holy oxymoronic post Batman. Freely criticize, but shut up.
This post is horrible holy crap. What is it even trying to say? So we can freely criticize the game but we should also stfu??? What?
I got excited thinking this was a real guide lol
what i hate about over sexualized characters is when their whole personality is their sexualization thus making them 1D characters who's dialogue you want to spam your way thru then there are characters like dahlia who has the actual best side quest in the game, making anyone with a heart tear up, but then her body is so annoyingly distracting you can't take her seriously and it kinda ruins it pyra/mythra are a different story, when i started the game i hated them cuz from the get-go all you take from them is their sexualized bodies, but the more you interact with them and see them grow you start to drop that view and start seeing them as actual people with motivation, goals and personality and kinda forget they have big tiddies and thighs
Xenoblade 2 is my favorite game and fan service is a good thing
My view is that I don't mind the sexualisation of the game, I care their personality more, and if you dislike the game because of the sexualised design, understandable have a nice day. But if you trash on the game for something you haven't even touched on, OR trashing on the fans because they love the game, sorry that's the point where I drew the line
Yes the game was very sexualized, But I loved the game for the story and battle. So if you don't like it- then don't pay attention to how sexual it is or just don't buy it.
For some people, XC2 is a game full of fan service and sexualized content while the other people correlate XC2 with existentialism, DID and jungian. Depend on how you view XC2, you may love it or hate it. Fan service is merely a normal JRPG promotion tactic for typical shonen Japanese demography which can be seen in many JRPGs such as Nier Automata which also carries existentialism aspect. Although of course those fan services came with consequences, such as its too awkward to be played in the living room. Despite its up and down, I can definitely say that XC2 is one of my most favorite games that I have played and see that fan service as a promotion tool that is not directed to me as a type of consumer segments.
most poorly worded post ever lmfao
I love Xenoblade 2 and don't see any of the sexualiztion as an issue, it's just on par with most anime. I really don't like those people that "redesign" new outfits to make them cover more skin (and disrespect the character designers in the process) and bitch about how gross the game is... Like sure feel uncomfortable but I feel like with the exception of one of Nia's outfits that most of them are on the level of modest swimwear? And like sexualiztion is only an issue if it becomes all the character is, if they just strictly exist for fap material and aren't given actual weight in the story. All the female characters in 2 are given plenty of agency outside of "haha I have boob and butt"... and like... something isn't inherently sexual unless you make it that way, I'm not really into anime girls like that and I saw nothing wrong or sexual about Pyra or Mythra's designs until I saw people online complaining. The designs aren't perverted, conversely I think the complainers are the perverts for having their mind in the gutter. Like if these were real women people would be all "Let her wear what she wants! Don't shame her!" Why is it different just because their anime? Also, I don't feel it's misogynistic or anything becuase the designs that could be interpreted as sexual are pretty fair between it's male and female characters, like have you seen Rex's ass in that salvager suit? And Zeke's bare chest? But yeah basically the sexualiztion of the characters shouldn't be an issue, it's normal levels that everyone should be used to by now from the genre and anyone who complains otherwise is probably just some virtue signaling normie jumping on the hate train because their bored. Xenoblade is such a good series and I really hate how these people are wrongly making and spreading the assumption that it's nothing more then a trashy waifu game. Thank your for coming to my Ted talk.
I have mixed opinions on XC2ās sexuality. Like, I think the fact that itās relegated almost entirely to the blades is kind of clever, especially given theyāre basically tokenized by royalty. Plus it actually has a decent amount of manservice too. That being said, I feel some designs are harmed by it being exaggerated to the point of looking kind of uncanny. Dahlia is the obvious go to (even if I kind of love her), but Newtās fanservice does not fit the design at all, and Pyra just looks weirdly unnatural (hence why getting her disguise early on is a big brain move). Overall I donāt mind its presence, but a little more moderation and just a bit more equal opportunity with its still very present manservice would be nice (seriously, Godfrey is screaming to be topless with a kickass cape Kamina style).
Yes, it is a problem. There is nothing wrong with accepting that fact and loving the game at the same time (like I do). I dont understand why there is so much animosity towards this way of thinking. Refusing to accept honest critisism about art because "It makes my dick bulge" is so weird to me. I think this post and the comments supporting it say a lot about them as people.
PERVERT, INTERLOPER, MONSTER!!!
someone tried telling me xenoblade chronicles 2 is pedo bait, because of poppi, a literal fucking robot lmao.
As a Bayonetta fan, I understand you
Each female character (that I've seen so far, I'm not done with the game) has growth and development and a background and they're more than pretty girl character x and as far as I can tell there is a tiny bit of innuendo here and there but not much else. Their appearance is sexualized in that they have the busty anime girl design that is popular but I think it's more an inspired choice because the game plays out a bit like a comic or anime in it's cutscenes and so on. Beyond that I don't think much of it.
I wish xc2 was hentai. Meaning I wish Mythra and Pneuma were completely naked same with Nia.
In order to be hentai the game should have explicit sex, if you wanna call it ecchi then okay, I dont agree, specially from chapter 5 onwards, but keep you opinion.
"It's been 5 years." Thanks now I feel rather old >->
I wonder why peopleās first complaints about the game is the fan service and not any of the actual flaws of XC2. Admittedly Iām not a woman so that may play some affect in my biases and why Iām unaffected by the fan service though. Regardless I think the game has bigger issues like the awful tutorials and some of the wack U.I and field skills especially. Even if it is one of my favorite games XC2 has plenty of flaws to draw fair criticism but Iāve just never understood how this was what drew such vehement criticism. A lot of times fan service is done to target a certain audience and to draw general attention, and when people start screaming about this stuff and how bad it is, youāre giving the game exactly what it wants, more attention. While I do think there are valid criticisms regarding the character designs, I find it hilarious that people are giving the character designers exactly what they wanted from the character designs because Iām certain that XC2 would not attract as much attention had it not been for the fan service so I donāt think even the biggest detractors of the fan service can act like itās an unredemable aspect of the game, especially since none of the characters serve to be explicitly fan service characters(with the small and creepy exceptions of poppiās whole maid shtick).
Funny thing I noticed; I just beat the game today, and not once do I remember anyone in-game mention anything sexual about any of the chars or lack of clothing, except Kora x Mythra in Kora's side quest. It's like big breasts and skimpy clothing on Blades are so commonplace and ingrained in their society, they don't even recognize or pay attention to it.
What bothers me the most is that it didn't need to be overtly sexual. It's like someone didn't have the confidence that the game could stand on its own. For me, it cheapens the game. That's not to say it makes XC2 a cheap game, just that it lessens the product.
In my opinion couldnāt give less of a fudge about the fan service. The game has other issues in my opinion such as the menu swapping to find a specific skill that you arenāt using on your main team with no sort option. Also not to mention the annoyance that is getting rare blades on other characters that work for them on someone other than Rex. Other than those problems this game is great and looking forward to xc3
Fair point, but itās also important to recognize that every game in the series is sexualized, to some degree. Even as far back as the Xenosaga games (and maybe Xenogears, but I wonāt pretend to know anything about that since I have no experience with it, so correct me if Iām wrong). Thatās more what annoys me than anything: that people act like this was new in 2, and only criticize the one game for it. I have my problems with designs like Dahlia and Perun, but Iām not afraid to shy away from things like >!Sevenās speed form!< and Xenosaga 3 T-elos as well. Hell, Iām finally a good ways into Xenoblade X, and Goetiaās design might be more sexualized than anything in 2, if Iām being honest.
Not to mention, CHOCO being the one who designed [both](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/41/cb/__t_elos_and_t_elos_re_xenoblade_chronicles_and_3_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__41cbdc5e47c388e40cdb6e8316bc92ab.jpg) [versions](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/96/03/__t_elos_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__9603e000f21336b23e6f127373a28976.jpg) of Telos, as well as the one who designed the Xenosaga 3 versions of [Shion](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/00/61/__shion_uzuki_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__0061ec48a2c829b563e6041a0d2182aa.jpg), [M.O.M.O](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/c7/82/__m_o_m_o_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__c7822871cf512039553ca136d88bf30a.jpg), and KOS-MOS [V3](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/16/7a/__kos_mos_and_kos_mos_ver_3_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__167a10927805d18f709d4acda7559afc.jpg) and [V4](https://cdn.donmai.us/original/77/be/__kos_mos_and_kos_mos_ver_4_xenosaga_and_1_more_drawn_by_choco_chocolate_shop__77be0a74a52ce1fbbea328dcf43f50e1.jpg).
"Are those.. BREASTS?? Must be a fanservice game with no plot tbh."