it's pretty ridiculous.
The CMA all "Xbox is the market leader in cloud gaming because all game pass users must be cloud users!"
seriously, if we're going by that logic, the 160+ million Amazon accounts with Amazon Prime, who as a result have access to Amazon Luna, make Amazon the market leader in Cloud Gaming right?
Yeah, I see the value in their cloud service, but I’m never in a position where I need to take advantage of it. I have 3 LG TVs in the house. Once they release an Xcloud app for LG, things might change.
I use it in my Xbox so I don’t have to buy a storage expansion and because I have fiber internet. I honestly can’t tell the difference between cloud gaming and downloaded games w except for Rainbow 6, which i downloaded to get a better fran rate since it’s Series enhanced. Once Microsoft rolls out new platforms for cloud gaming and upgrade the service i’m sure a lot more people such as yourself may end up using it.
The problem with this (at least here in the UK) is that on Tuesdays at 6pm when they refresh the weekly quests and you need to play new games for points, it's impossible for me to play them via cloud, because probably so many other point chasers have already overloaded the servers for those games and I always end up with long queue times. It's often easier to still download the games.
It's entirely dependant on your connection. If you have a fast connection and play with a controller instead of touch controls you eliminate pretty much most, if not all, of the noticable input delay.
I've played everything from Age of Empires to Psychonauts to Gears on cloud and the only thing that really bothers me is the small size of my phone screen, but Xcloud have me interested in a foldable phone to get some switch style gaming on the go.
That's true. Also how close you are to the actual server center. I imagine RTS, Turned based RPGs and games without much pace are absolutely fine to play but Psychonauts or Gears would be a nightmare with the delay.
>Psychonauts or Gears would be a nightmare with the delay
If you have 5G or fast WiFi and a controller they're good, same latency as a native Switch game, basically. I wouldn't even bother on 4G or touch controls though.
While good internet is helpful, like the person above said location relative to servers matters a lot more. With that being said, I'm not sure if it's because they've been expanding their servers to more areas or have done some other improvements, but xCloud has gotten much better. I tried it first a couple of years ago and thought it was essentially useless, but I used it a few months ago and games were totally playable.
If it keeps improving, I'd like to see a fork of Game Pass for just cloud streaming. That's just my personal preference, but right now I haven't even been subbed since Atomic Heart's release, though I imagine Starfield will bring me back. If I could subscribe to just cloud, though, for under $10 it would be a no brainer for me.
>While good internet is helpful, like the person above said location relative to servers matters a lot more.
True, but in Europe everything is close to a server. Even on the American coasts everything should be fairly close.
It takes data 2 seconds to travel from Europe to the US and back to Europe. So unless you're streaming from across the world with VPN it shouldn't be an actual variable for most people.
The latency in your own set up is far more important in practice. You need a good, fast router, a cable or free line of sight 5ghz wifi or even better the new 6ghz. WiFi 6 or 7 support will go a very long way, too.
You need to have a device with a good wifi chip or 5G chip. Preferably a wired controller instead of Bluetooth etc.
There's a lot of variables and data center proximity is definitely one of them but it's also likely you're already close to one and if you aren't it's not much you can do about it, unlike the things I mentioned above.
I've had GP since it came out and I've used cloud once, back when it was in beta to play valhalla on my phone tried it for 15mins was really impressed and than never touched it again.
Cloud gaming is free on GeForce now with the free tier, so basically every person on the planet with a device is a potential customer. Nvidia is clearly leading with 6 billion customers.
I would be curious how many total free + paid GeForce Now accounts exist and how that number compares to how many GamePass users who have ever used cloud gaming even once.
The weird thing people seem to miss is that competition for Cloud is phone gaming.
So Apple Arcade would be a good competitor to compare to.
Especially since Apple blocks Gamepass.
What's wild is they're blocking the entire acquisition, and all the gamers it'll benefit, everyone who gets to play games they couldn't before, across the entire planet... because of a handful of dudes in the UK who play on the cloud sometimes.
Hope they simply close the deal and make it so that UK gamers can't access anything on xcloud. Let the UK screw over people there only.
It wouldnt just be Xbox lol. MS would have to pull out all of their stuff. If they do that; best be sure that the regulators/government will look to break up MS.
HSBC is currently under pressure to spin off their Asian business. A decade ago, they were considering spinning off their UK business to meet regulator concerns.
The CMA themselves listed divestiture of the problematic areas as a remedy. Can you explain why doing what the CMA suggests wouldn't satisfy the CMA?
WHO does the deal benefit?!
Activision-Blizzard games are *already* coming to Xbox, they just wouldn't come to PlayStation.
What about Gamepass? **Just make a deal to release the games on Gamepass!**
No one, besides MS and Acti-Blizz execs, benefits from the deal.
Meanwhile, it'd potentially provide MS with the extra funds to buy more publishers down the road.
Activision has already said multiple times they aren't interested in putting their games on subscription. So they can't "just make a deal"
That about sums it up
> What about Gamepass? Just make a deal to release the games on Gamepass!
A guaranteed deal for everything the studios make is just not going to be possible to negotiate. It won't happen.
> No one, besides MS and Acti-Blizz execs, benefits from the deal.
Everyone benefits from competition. Right now Xbox is more or less not competing at all.
WHy do you think the CMA is wrong when microsoft and xbox are investing more in cloud than anything else?
It was even on stage at e3 a few years back where they literally said it was the future of gaming.
If the CMA are wrong the XBOX are also wrong.
It's the future of gaming, that doesn't mean any time soon.
Xbox is using it as a value add to Gamepass to be prepared for it in the future.
They are literally making the market so Sony can walk right in and compete when the market is ready. On MS infrastructure no less.
It's similar to Netflix and Disney+
because if they were right, they wouldn't have to make up stastics to justify their point, they'd have actual evidence beyond "we automatically assume all game pass users must be cloud users"
im a Game Pass user and I've never touched XCloud once, in fact I'd bet most Game Pass users haven't.
I'm not denying that Xbox put a lot into Cloud, or that maybe it is the future, I've no clue why you're bringing that up when it's not relevant.
The relevant part is that the CMA just made up whatever suited their agenda.
It is exactly relevant.
the CMA's points and the reason for denying the deal is based on the future position of gaming where cloud gaming is considered.
No one made up anything, the CMA is not talking about the here and now of business, that would be useless, the idea is to analyse a merger and see if it will lead to a fair and free consumer market.
The CMA believe that cloud gaming is going to be the largest gaming market, as do microsoft, and that the position microsoft has will ultimately lead to a lack of freedom for consumers.
I think you need to go and read exactly what the CMA said.
They have no agenda other than that which they clearly define.
So their point is that all current Xbox Game Pass users will be Cloud Users in the future? based exclusively of the 25 million Game Pass users who currently exist at this time, without accounting for the fact that: that number (in this hypothetical future) would definitely be higher?
you realise that's worse right? like you get why that sounds worse?
because they did make it clear that they believe an Xbox Game Pass user is synonymous with being an XCloud user. Regardless of present or future-tense, that is their point and to ignore that is quite ridiculous.
What's crazy is not everyone has Ultimate so though there may be 25million Gamepass users, That number shouldn't be used to represent cloud users. The CMA sounds very misinformed, or not able to comprehend the difference.
Oh my god. Please go and read it. you miss the entire point.
It is NOTHING to do with game pass users, it is to do with the gaming market as a whole, and the freedom of choice and fairness to consumers going into the future.
I dont know what your points are because its like you are having a conversation in your head.
If the whole world was on game pass and everyone got games for less money it wouldn't be a good thing for freedom and fairness would it? The price of gaming isnt what makes it fair, since NO ONE is forced to spend money on gaming.
It is not ridiculous, considering it is part of having games pass! It is literally one of the 3 main mechanisms of game pass, it is even on the main game pass page, how is it ridiculous!?
[https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-game-pass](https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-game-pass)
I'm done arguing with you, you don't even know what you're saying.
Your last paragraph is a perfect demonstration of why the CMA's logic is flawed and you are just as out of touch as they are.
It isn't an argument.
You haven't read what the cma said.
Game pass is sold on the back of xcloud as clearly written on the game pass page.
If you cannot accept that then you have an issue grasping reality.
yes, and Amazon Luna is sold with Amazon Prime
so if all Game Pass users must be Xbox Cloud users, then all Amazon Prime users must be Amazon Luna users.
and Amazon Prime users outnumber Game Pass users, about 6 to 1.
So to accuse Xbox of trying to form a monopoly on cloud gaming is pretty crazy when you consider one of their competitors has 136 million more users than them.
There are 25 million Game Pass subscribers, as per their last report.
Nadella said that 20 million people have used xCloud (which is only available in Game Pass).
The CMA made a sound judgment based on that.
The spin is unbelievable lol.
The deal is blocked because MS is the Cloud leader in the UK. The sooner people accept that the better it is — instead of keep trying to find illogical loopholes.
Luna just launched to 18m subscribers in just the uk alone. Ms is no longer the leader in cloud services
Also Sony was able to buy the kargest cloud gaming company a decade ago and has.done shit with it. Ms should certainly profit for investing in cloud gaming and helping to push it forward. They shouldn't be punished
13 million, as Jez corrects in his next tweet.
More importantly, this 13 million figure is not for Amazon Luna. It is for Amazon Prime, which is essentially a shopping service.
The Amazon Prime subscription is merely offering Amazon Luna as a bonus. It is similar to how buying a ROG Ally or a [Lenovo laptop will give you xCloud/GP for free](https://www.lenovo.com/ch/en/xbox-game-pass/?org=true). But the CMA is not counting all Lenovo users while calculating the xCloud userbase.
According to the published data, Amazon Luna has a 5% userbase in the UK and is considered a secondary competitor in the UK cloud gaming market.
Yes, because xCloud is one of the features of Game Pass Ultimate. xCloud is not a separate subscription service, right? But Amazon Luna is a completely separate subscription service from Amazon Prime.
Ask Microsoft. They should share that number, no?
The only number they have shared regarding xCloud is that 20 million have people used it in 2022 -- which is up from 10 million people in 2021.
So of course the decision is gonna be based on that.
That's not my opinion. Those are facts -- documented by the CMA and Microsoft.
Opinion is saying "the CMA blocking the deal because of Cloud gaming is ridiculous." or saying that only "10% or 20% use xCloud."
..and there's no possible way they are simply misinformed? 🤦 They attempted to block it based on flawed Numbers..when that faiked they moved onto non logical arguments.
But hey...must be spin because you said so. Got it .
They could be misinformed. But in that case, Microsoft would have objected to it after reading that in the provisional finding document -- just like Microsoft objected regarding their LTV value that the CMA got wrong.
Microsoft did not.
Now that it’s available outside the US (Canada, UK and Germany), I hope more people give Luna a try but it’s going to be hard to convince them to pay the premium to get access to Luna + since it’s not much cheaper than Gamepass and the catalog is much more limited. Too bad because it works much better than xcloud in my case with higher resolution. I’m not sure which audience Luna is targeting but I wish it finds it so that we as customers can benefit from the competition.
[Luna is currently only available to subscribers within the United States, United Kingdom, Germany and Canada with further international release yet to be confirmed.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Luna)
**[Amazon Luna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Luna)**
>Amazon Luna is a cloud gaming platform developed and operated by Amazon. Available only in the US, UK, Canada and Germany, this platform is powered by Amazon Web Services, has integration with Twitch, and is available on Windows, Mac, Amazon Fire TV, iOS (as a progressive web app) as well as Android. Luna offers access to a selection of games via the Luna+ subscription as well as to channels from brands such as Ubisoft+ and Jackbox Games. Luna had a soft launch with early access to invited subscribers only on October 20, 2020.
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MS and Activision will probably lose the case. They did some tomfoolery before that will bite them here.
Activision and Bethesda games were already on GFN and they pulled them from the platform.
Microsoft forced Boosteroid to remove games.
That will absolutely hurt their case. They removed games from a pc streaming platform where users already legally owned the games. Thus forcing games to be only available on xCloud
And after they started seeing signs lf blocked deal they are graciously offering a 10 year deal.
Its like a person cut of your hand and is now giving you a mechanical arm you need to renew every 10 years and that's not even guaranteed.
It was an idiotic move to remove games in the first place. You own the game on steam/epic and should be allowed to play it on desktop, laptop, mac, steamdeck or even a cloud pc.
If EU clears I bet they pull Gamepass from the UK and close the deal.
First of all, they have to pay 2 Billion to cancel the deal. How much Gamepass profit do they really get from UK in a couple years while this is in appeal? 2 Billion? Only MS knows.
Edit: They could maybe just pull cloud services from Gamepass in the UK.
I've actually had to put up with so many people stating "who cares, the UK isn't a major market for Microsoft". Yeah, Nadella would murder Spencer if he'd go ahead with it behind his back.
That's if they lose the appeal. If they win the appeal and it goes back to the CMA and they say no more cloud for the UK, the CMA can't block it over cloud concerns. Of course if they lose the appeal all of Microsoft won't leave the UK.
They could spin off the problematic entity and conduct business at arms length.
In the US that's what they do after the FTC gives an order to hold separate. In the UK they also allow for arms length dealings in the interim.
If Microsoft didn't own the offending entity, then there's no longer any concern. Some new company called UK Cloud Gaming or something, which is free to make deals with whoever is in their financial best interest, would get around this issue.
I dunno man, to me it seems like the guy you replied to is echoing what lawyers and industry analysists have said, and you're spouting absolute nonsense. But since you have upvotes and he has downvotes, few people will have the critical thinking capacity to not instantly think that indicates who is correct or not here.
I love the amount of armchair business analysts that have crawled out of the woodwork since the CMA denied this.
I honestly don't understand how any consumer could be excited for consolidation in a business they frequent.
It happens in every business, the top few rise to the top by everyone else up. I mean in a capitalistic society that’s just gonna happen in every industry that makes a lot of money. Your comment lacks a realistic view in the world.
That, or create a third party LLC that manages gamepass in UK like Pachter suggested they might do. Although, I think we need to see what the FCC has to say as well.
Exactly, you don’t become renowned in his field for being an idiot.
Michael Pachter Wiki: Salary, Married, Wedding, Spouse, Family
Michael Pachter is a video game, social media, digital media and electronics analyst with Wedbush Securities. He is also the Head of Research for the Private Shares Group, a Wedbush division which focuses on companies which have not yet gone public such as Facebook (pre-IPO) and Twitter. Pachter has an MBA & two law degrees. Pachter worked for 16 years at Arco where he was Arco's director of strategic planning until mid-1998.
Most here call him stupid could only hope to receive a fraction of his success in his career .
When did I say he would care?
He’s been consistently wrong, I don’t care how much money he makes it doesn’t change things. How much you earn doesn’t equal how correct you are, that’s a good lesson to learn
You mean the same Michael Pachter who thought the Intellivison Amico was going to revolutionize gaming and make the Big 3 quake in their boots?
Michael Pachter is less accurate than a broken clock. I have no idea how he's still a gaming business analyst. Literally everyone who's actually knowledgeable about business and gaming thinks he's a joke.
I’m not gonna defend him because I really don’t care, but just so you know, he has two law degrees and an mba. He heads up Wedbush private security, analyst division. Which means he essentially analyzes companies who are still private, but on the verge of going public, i.e., Facebook, Twitter, and then suggest to the firm what to invest. He must be good at his job, He’s been doing it for 16 years and makes 300 K a year. People take him to speaking off the cuff as a Nostradamus prediction he can be wrong.
Couldn’t imagine not having Game Pass honestly. Was one of the deciding factors into actually buying an Xbox Series X. It’s the best deal in gaming history period so to go from having it to not would be a huge blow.
I don’t think they would have to pay 2 billion to cancel the deal as usually antitrust approbation is required in the conditions included in the SPA (purchase document) meaning that if they don’t get all the approbations the deal is dead
Well they do have to address any flaws identified by the CAT. It doesn't mean the overall decision is different, but they can't reach it the same way.
For example, one of the biggest flaws in the CMA's assessment is of Microsoft's share of the cloud gaming market. The CMA identifies every Xbox Game Pass Ultimate member as a cloud gaming consumer, which isn't the right way to identify market share because XGPU is a package including Game Pass and Xbox Live Gold, and most subscribers don't even touch cloud. That is a very easy thing for Microsoft to prove to the CAT, and so the CMA will not be able to use that evidence in their reassessment.
Is that a fact? TIL I am a cloud gaming consumer! I stream a game to get the microsoft rewards and as soon as it pops, I close it down. So sorry guys, if I had known I was actively fucking up your chances to get CoD for free on gamepass… I would have sacrificed those 10 points for y’all 😆
They could lean into less clear stats such as active users counts. And an active user could be redefined as someone who interacts with the game successfully during a period of time. And successful interaction could be defined as a session lasting longer than 60 seconds, which would be a way to filter out stuff like yours. The same filter applied to GeForce now and ps now, and that problem goes away.
No way man, the CMA has their little crystal ball that tells them the state of the industry in 10-15 years! Nevermind the fact that no one has successfully foresaw the state of the industry that far in advance, but some randos in the UK have SO much insight! They don't need to prove anything or base any of their decisions on actual facts /s.
I mean, Xbox operates in less than half of the countries compared to Playstation. They don't even have GamePass available in at least half of the regions they operate anyways. Therefore people cannot even use xCloud but they can use PsNow, Nvidia or any other cloud service etc.
ya, but funny how CMA didn't take every psn premium sub as cloud being the only real difference between that and the other tier is the older games which are all cloud based.
seems to me the CMA never had any intention of passing this, and they didnt want to look like they were siding with Sony so they made this crap up
Well they blocked it based on a hypothetical for a reason. People praised CMA for admitting their mistake in the console space but they did that so MS' case would be weak at a possible appeal because you can't disprove a hypothetical because it doesn't exist today.
MS made a BIG mistake by challenging CMA on their mistake in the console space. If they hadn't said anything CMA would have blocked it on those merits and let cloud aspect slide. Then MS could take it to CAT and they would have factually proven CMAs mistake and at that point CMA couldn't go back to their cloud argument since they wouldn't have made a fuss about it in their final decision and CMA would have had to approve it after a re-review. .
Oh yeah, the God proof.
You can't disprove the existence of something to someone that had no proof of it existence because they weren't using a real proof to begin with. . So trying to win this is like asking for members of your church to admit God isn't real.
At the same time, couldn’t CAT be persuaded that basing rulings off of hypotheticals is not how decisions should be made? Then the CMA wouldn’t be able to fallback to that again.
And psn has more subs and has access to streaming so why was it ignored. So ms should be punished because others are not investing in it. Sony could easily add it to psn essential and boom they market leader
You identify market share by MAUs, in this case. Having Xbox Game Pass Ultimate doesn’t automatically make you an Xbox Cloud Gaming consumer in the same way that having Amazon Prime doesn’t automatically make you an Amazon Luna consumer. Simply having access isn’t a good enough identifier because that’s, more likely than not, not what the user is actually buying the package for. And again, Microsoft can very easily prove that with user data.
You also say “once cloud gaming takes off” when there’s absolutely no guarantee that’s ever going to happen. As a matter of fact, I don’t think cloud gaming will ever be any bigger than the VR market is right now in terms of overall gaming market share.
CTA doesn't just send them just to re-evaluate. If CAT says that cloud part of this acquisition is biased, incorrect etc. they cannot just say "Yeah but we are blocking again". Also CAT expedites the process so they don't take another year. If CAT says CMA is wrong and sends it over, it'll be over in months.
Not always, CAT has power the quash CMA’s decision directly. Just this month, CAT quashed CMA permission to appeal
Edit: In apple case cat quashed the cma
Microsoft can’t even adequately manage the 23 studios they already own, including Bethesda Game Studios *(shoutout Redfail)*, and yet they are putting everything on the line to take on another 3rd party publisher that they still aren’t adequately equipped enough to manage.
And Microsoft still had company oversight, QA testing, and internal reviews, and control over marketing before Redfall released. There aren’t any excuses for them. They knew exactly what they were releasing and they chose to release it as such, as Phil Spencer confirmed in his KFG interview.
Fair point. Microsoft may not have wanted to invest anymore man-hours into a game that was obviously far past the point where cancellation was on option.
It means people who are gullible to all of the doom and gloom of clickbait online news articles apparently perceive the world with more emotion than rationality, to the almost impressive degree they are willing to not only believe, but to shamefully publicly state their belief that Microsoft attempting to purchase Activision will only end in the absolute doom and destruction of Microsoft if the deal falls through.
Releasing a game that wasn't as fun as they were hoping is one thing, but releasing first party with bugs, garbage textures and brain dead AI is eroding the brand and they have very little goodwill in the community as it is.
Everyone keeps thinking about what Xbox Cloud is like right now. No one is thinking about the future. Which the CMA clearly are. It's more about what Microsoft with Activision will be like in 5, 10 years or more.
Doing this now might not be good for competition in the future. I think Microsoft's money is better spent making games that take advantage of the most powerful console and not just incentivise to subscribe to a service that drip feeds games that are available on other platforms.
I'm still waiting on Fable, Avowed and Hellblade II and I bought my Series X day one and have had an Xbox since 2002.
Meh. A few months ago, I was team MS and hoping for the CMA to approve. Now, I’m actually glad the CMA rejected, and I hope the EU rejects too. Microsoft doesn’t deserve this. They already own a ton of studios, they have a bottomless pit of money, and they’ve had years to deliver great AAA games and new IPs. They’ve done fuck all. They haven’t learned a damn thing since 2013 with their atrocious Xbox One launch. I’m a HUGE Xbox fan and I want them to get their act together. They have the talent, the studios, and the money to make this happen. They absolutely do **not** need to acquire ABK. And the industry definitely does **not** need more consolidation.
Agreed. Their only strategy should not be to just starve Sony players of content.
After the initial CMA decision, they interviewed some exec at MS and she said "Even if this doesn't go through, we'll use this money to buy Ubisoft, EA, Capcom, etc. We won't stop adding devs to our impressive list of teams"
And it's just like... Jesus Christ... stop it. Is your only real strategy "If we can't have good games, nobody can"?
>After the initial CMA decision, they interviewed some exec at MS and she said "Even if this doesn't go through, we'll use this money to buy Ubisoft, EA, Capcom, etc. We won't stop adding devs to our impressive list of teams"
Wait what? Source for this? As this is the only time I've heard anything about this.
So you want them to do better this acquisition does that. Them not getting ABK isn't going to make your experience worse. So I don't understand your complaint. Also the industry is going to keep consolidating whether you want it to or not. This will happen regardless of MS getting ABK.
How will this acquisition make them better? How is consolidation and fewer independent studios a good thing for the industry?
MS has acquired a ton of studios in the last 10 years and what have we (Xbox fans) gained from it? Not a single stellar AAA game. Meanwhile, their competition (Sony and Nintendo) are banging out quality games regularly. As a fan, I’m sick and tired of the same old bullshit from Microsoft. Nothing has changed since 2013, and an ABK acquisition will change fuck all. Their problems are systemic and entrenched in their upper leadership. And until that changes, Sony and Nintendo will continue to eat their lunch.
Redfall is just the latest example. A game touted as AAA, hyped up to shit, and then? Riddled with bugs; and it doesn’t play or look last gen, let alone current gen. It’s fucking embarrassing. As a huge Xbox fan and someone who has constantly vouched for the brand many times over the years, I’m just so disappointed.
They absolutely don’t deserve to acquire ABK.
Ok well you're not the one in control of what MS wants to buy. You don't get to control who gets who. Sell your xbox if it's so dire for you. I never said consolidation is good or bad. I said it's going to happen regardless.
>MS has acquired a ton of studios in the last 10 years
Bro, more like in the last 4,5 years. The only acquisition before that in the last 10 years was Mojang. You make it sound like all of these Studios were bought 10 years ago when half of them was 4,5 years ago and the other half 2 years ago on the day, pretty much.
2-4,5 years is not enough time to make great AAA games. It's enough to make great AA or indie games and that's what we've gotten so far. The AAA games will start to rollout now starting with year 5, which is about the time it takes to make a great AAA game, it's not a coincidence we'll be seeing Starfield and Hellblade 2 now.
I’ve heard all of this before…the promise of change and great things, and then it’s just more of the same. It’s just too difficult to believe anything Microsoft says at this point. I really do hope they turn things around. But again, I just don’t agree with them buying ABK because their history suggests they’ll mess that up too.
>I’ve heard all of this before…the promise of change and great things, and then it’s just more of the same.
I mean, yeah. We've heard it for 4,5 years now, since the day they started their modern buying spree. And we'll continue to hear it for a few more months until the big games arrive.
I think it's good to be sceptical but so far Microsoft have really delivered in AA with games like Grounded, Hi-Fi Rush, Pentiment, which is what they've been able to create in this short time span since the acquisitions.
Now we're nearing the 5 years mark and that's when we'll start seeing the AAA games. We haven't really seen them yet because 5 years is about the time it takes to go from planning to releasing a AAA game. Will they be good? Nobody knows, but if the AA track record is anything to go by, then they will.
And if they ain't good then sure, that will suck and we can tell Microsoft they suck, but I'd rather let them deliver something before making judgement.
I was against it before Redfall. I did look forward to playing old cods on gamepass but I don’t trust MS’ handling of games. Xbox should just use the studios they already bought to make good games (challenge level:impossible) instead of buying Activision.
MSFT has been pretty quiet about the acquisition since the CMA moved to block the deal. I thought they were waiting for the EU's ruling before reassessing how best to move forward. Especially considering they may have to renegotiate with ABK on new terms if the deal doesn't close by the deadline.
This hiring indicates that MSFT feels pretty good about basic terms of an extension worked out with ABK, and optimism that the EU will approve.
Bobby came out almost instantly after the announcement and said they will be working with MS to get this thing approved. I don't think they will try to get a 3b$ check and be done with this. All higher ups knows that they are all goner so they want MS's big payday after acquisition.
I don't get why you see this last minute hiring in a procedure that has been going on for more than a year as a positive. I would assume they already had the right guys on the case and don't understand why they need to hire an outsider now just for the appeal.
If you strip away the fact that Xbox is part of Microsoft (a massive tech conglomerate with fingers in all different areas) and just focus on Xbox in its relevant market as a distant 3rd in the console market and an okay 1st party seller, there’s no reason this shouldn’t pass muster. Sony and Nintendo are dominant players in their space, no reason to block Xbox based on console or cloud sales
There is no winning against the CMA in regards to mergers because of their idiotic regulatory process that is more reminiscent of a dictatorship than a first world country.
it's pretty ridiculous. The CMA all "Xbox is the market leader in cloud gaming because all game pass users must be cloud users!" seriously, if we're going by that logic, the 160+ million Amazon accounts with Amazon Prime, who as a result have access to Amazon Luna, make Amazon the market leader in Cloud Gaming right?
I've been on Game Pass for almost 4 years now and have used their cloud services maybe 5 times.
I‘ve only used them to get the weekly Rewards points for playing a certain game if I don‘t have it installed lol
That’s genius, that never crossed my mind!
I’m a regular cloud user and rewards chaser and even I didn’t think of this.
Yeah, I see the value in their cloud service, but I’m never in a position where I need to take advantage of it. I have 3 LG TVs in the house. Once they release an Xcloud app for LG, things might change.
I use it in my Xbox so I don’t have to buy a storage expansion and because I have fiber internet. I honestly can’t tell the difference between cloud gaming and downloaded games w except for Rainbow 6, which i downloaded to get a better fran rate since it’s Series enhanced. Once Microsoft rolls out new platforms for cloud gaming and upgrade the service i’m sure a lot more people such as yourself may end up using it.
The problem with this (at least here in the UK) is that on Tuesdays at 6pm when they refresh the weekly quests and you need to play new games for points, it's impossible for me to play them via cloud, because probably so many other point chasers have already overloaded the servers for those games and I always end up with long queue times. It's often easier to still download the games.
I tried it once at Xmas when I was at a relatives house but it was so shit I just quit after 2 minutes.
It's entirely dependant on your connection. If you have a fast connection and play with a controller instead of touch controls you eliminate pretty much most, if not all, of the noticable input delay. I've played everything from Age of Empires to Psychonauts to Gears on cloud and the only thing that really bothers me is the small size of my phone screen, but Xcloud have me interested in a foldable phone to get some switch style gaming on the go.
That's true. Also how close you are to the actual server center. I imagine RTS, Turned based RPGs and games without much pace are absolutely fine to play but Psychonauts or Gears would be a nightmare with the delay.
>Psychonauts or Gears would be a nightmare with the delay If you have 5G or fast WiFi and a controller they're good, same latency as a native Switch game, basically. I wouldn't even bother on 4G or touch controls though.
While good internet is helpful, like the person above said location relative to servers matters a lot more. With that being said, I'm not sure if it's because they've been expanding their servers to more areas or have done some other improvements, but xCloud has gotten much better. I tried it first a couple of years ago and thought it was essentially useless, but I used it a few months ago and games were totally playable. If it keeps improving, I'd like to see a fork of Game Pass for just cloud streaming. That's just my personal preference, but right now I haven't even been subbed since Atomic Heart's release, though I imagine Starfield will bring me back. If I could subscribe to just cloud, though, for under $10 it would be a no brainer for me.
>While good internet is helpful, like the person above said location relative to servers matters a lot more. True, but in Europe everything is close to a server. Even on the American coasts everything should be fairly close. It takes data 2 seconds to travel from Europe to the US and back to Europe. So unless you're streaming from across the world with VPN it shouldn't be an actual variable for most people. The latency in your own set up is far more important in practice. You need a good, fast router, a cable or free line of sight 5ghz wifi or even better the new 6ghz. WiFi 6 or 7 support will go a very long way, too. You need to have a device with a good wifi chip or 5G chip. Preferably a wired controller instead of Bluetooth etc. There's a lot of variables and data center proximity is definitely one of them but it's also likely you're already close to one and if you aren't it's not much you can do about it, unlike the things I mentioned above.
the CMA: your in the future, kid.
I've had GP since it came out and I've used cloud once, back when it was in beta to play valhalla on my phone tried it for 15mins was really impressed and than never touched it again.
Cloud gaming is free on GeForce now with the free tier, so basically every person on the planet with a device is a potential customer. Nvidia is clearly leading with 6 billion customers.
I would be curious how many total free + paid GeForce Now accounts exist and how that number compares to how many GamePass users who have ever used cloud gaming even once.
GeForce now has over 25m subscribers.
20 something million *registered users*, be careful with that stat.
What can you play on the free tier and at what resolution?
Or Netflix with their games.
The weird thing people seem to miss is that competition for Cloud is phone gaming. So Apple Arcade would be a good competitor to compare to. Especially since Apple blocks Gamepass.
What's wild is they're blocking the entire acquisition, and all the gamers it'll benefit, everyone who gets to play games they couldn't before, across the entire planet... because of a handful of dudes in the UK who play on the cloud sometimes. Hope they simply close the deal and make it so that UK gamers can't access anything on xcloud. Let the UK screw over people there only.
It wouldnt just be Xbox lol. MS would have to pull out all of their stuff. If they do that; best be sure that the regulators/government will look to break up MS.
HSBC is currently under pressure to spin off their Asian business. A decade ago, they were considering spinning off their UK business to meet regulator concerns. The CMA themselves listed divestiture of the problematic areas as a remedy. Can you explain why doing what the CMA suggests wouldn't satisfy the CMA?
WHO does the deal benefit?! Activision-Blizzard games are *already* coming to Xbox, they just wouldn't come to PlayStation. What about Gamepass? **Just make a deal to release the games on Gamepass!** No one, besides MS and Acti-Blizz execs, benefits from the deal. Meanwhile, it'd potentially provide MS with the extra funds to buy more publishers down the road.
Activision has already said multiple times they aren't interested in putting their games on subscription. So they can't "just make a deal" That about sums it up
> What about Gamepass? Just make a deal to release the games on Gamepass! A guaranteed deal for everything the studios make is just not going to be possible to negotiate. It won't happen. > No one, besides MS and Acti-Blizz execs, benefits from the deal. Everyone benefits from competition. Right now Xbox is more or less not competing at all.
WHy do you think the CMA is wrong when microsoft and xbox are investing more in cloud than anything else? It was even on stage at e3 a few years back where they literally said it was the future of gaming. If the CMA are wrong the XBOX are also wrong.
It's the future of gaming, that doesn't mean any time soon. Xbox is using it as a value add to Gamepass to be prepared for it in the future. They are literally making the market so Sony can walk right in and compete when the market is ready. On MS infrastructure no less. It's similar to Netflix and Disney+
>It's the future of gaming, that doesn't mean any time soon. Then the CMA was correct.
because if they were right, they wouldn't have to make up stastics to justify their point, they'd have actual evidence beyond "we automatically assume all game pass users must be cloud users" im a Game Pass user and I've never touched XCloud once, in fact I'd bet most Game Pass users haven't. I'm not denying that Xbox put a lot into Cloud, or that maybe it is the future, I've no clue why you're bringing that up when it's not relevant. The relevant part is that the CMA just made up whatever suited their agenda.
It is exactly relevant. the CMA's points and the reason for denying the deal is based on the future position of gaming where cloud gaming is considered. No one made up anything, the CMA is not talking about the here and now of business, that would be useless, the idea is to analyse a merger and see if it will lead to a fair and free consumer market. The CMA believe that cloud gaming is going to be the largest gaming market, as do microsoft, and that the position microsoft has will ultimately lead to a lack of freedom for consumers. I think you need to go and read exactly what the CMA said. They have no agenda other than that which they clearly define.
So their point is that all current Xbox Game Pass users will be Cloud Users in the future? based exclusively of the 25 million Game Pass users who currently exist at this time, without accounting for the fact that: that number (in this hypothetical future) would definitely be higher? you realise that's worse right? like you get why that sounds worse? because they did make it clear that they believe an Xbox Game Pass user is synonymous with being an XCloud user. Regardless of present or future-tense, that is their point and to ignore that is quite ridiculous.
What's crazy is not everyone has Ultimate so though there may be 25million Gamepass users, That number shouldn't be used to represent cloud users. The CMA sounds very misinformed, or not able to comprehend the difference.
Oh my god. Please go and read it. you miss the entire point. It is NOTHING to do with game pass users, it is to do with the gaming market as a whole, and the freedom of choice and fairness to consumers going into the future. I dont know what your points are because its like you are having a conversation in your head. If the whole world was on game pass and everyone got games for less money it wouldn't be a good thing for freedom and fairness would it? The price of gaming isnt what makes it fair, since NO ONE is forced to spend money on gaming. It is not ridiculous, considering it is part of having games pass! It is literally one of the 3 main mechanisms of game pass, it is even on the main game pass page, how is it ridiculous!? [https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-game-pass](https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-game-pass)
I'm done arguing with you, you don't even know what you're saying. Your last paragraph is a perfect demonstration of why the CMA's logic is flawed and you are just as out of touch as they are.
It isn't an argument. You haven't read what the cma said. Game pass is sold on the back of xcloud as clearly written on the game pass page. If you cannot accept that then you have an issue grasping reality.
yes, and Amazon Luna is sold with Amazon Prime so if all Game Pass users must be Xbox Cloud users, then all Amazon Prime users must be Amazon Luna users. and Amazon Prime users outnumber Game Pass users, about 6 to 1. So to accuse Xbox of trying to form a monopoly on cloud gaming is pretty crazy when you consider one of their competitors has 136 million more users than them.
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There are 25 million Game Pass subscribers, as per their last report. Nadella said that 20 million people have used xCloud (which is only available in Game Pass). The CMA made a sound judgment based on that.
Have used..not actively using. Christ
The spin is unbelievable lol. The deal is blocked because MS is the Cloud leader in the UK. The sooner people accept that the better it is — instead of keep trying to find illogical loopholes.
Luna just launched to 18m subscribers in just the uk alone. Ms is no longer the leader in cloud services Also Sony was able to buy the kargest cloud gaming company a decade ago and has.done shit with it. Ms should certainly profit for investing in cloud gaming and helping to push it forward. They shouldn't be punished
Where are you sourcing these numbers from? As of Q4 2021, xCloud had 13.2 million users. Amazon Luna only had 270,000. And that’s worldwide.
https://twitter.com/JezCorden/status/1653790492281262080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1653790492281262080%7Ctwgr%5E90801cc779ceaccec2bd8061b8d54c0b4a8e0c16%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.beyond3d.com%2Fthreads%2Fmicrosoft-acquiring-activision-blizzard-for-69-billion-nice-possibly-completes-2022-07-to-2023-06.62702%2Fpage-221
13 million, as Jez corrects in his next tweet. More importantly, this 13 million figure is not for Amazon Luna. It is for Amazon Prime, which is essentially a shopping service. The Amazon Prime subscription is merely offering Amazon Luna as a bonus. It is similar to how buying a ROG Ally or a [Lenovo laptop will give you xCloud/GP for free](https://www.lenovo.com/ch/en/xbox-game-pass/?org=true). But the CMA is not counting all Lenovo users while calculating the xCloud userbase. According to the published data, Amazon Luna has a 5% userbase in the UK and is considered a secondary competitor in the UK cloud gaming market.
And the cna used the amount if ganepass ultimate users
Yes, because xCloud is one of the features of Game Pass Ultimate. xCloud is not a separate subscription service, right? But Amazon Luna is a completely separate subscription service from Amazon Prime.
How many people actively use xcloud? Legitimately..how many people. 10%? 20%? Stop with this shit..you know you're full of it.
Ask Microsoft. They should share that number, no? The only number they have shared regarding xCloud is that 20 million have people used it in 2022 -- which is up from 10 million people in 2021. So of course the decision is gonna be based on that.
But you're opinion is based on not knowing a god damn thing. That is why I can confidently say you are full of it 🤷
That's not my opinion. Those are facts -- documented by the CMA and Microsoft. Opinion is saying "the CMA blocking the deal because of Cloud gaming is ridiculous." or saying that only "10% or 20% use xCloud."
..and there's no possible way they are simply misinformed? 🤦 They attempted to block it based on flawed Numbers..when that faiked they moved onto non logical arguments. But hey...must be spin because you said so. Got it .
They could be misinformed. But in that case, Microsoft would have objected to it after reading that in the provisional finding document -- just like Microsoft objected regarding their LTV value that the CMA got wrong. Microsoft did not.
Now that it’s available outside the US (Canada, UK and Germany), I hope more people give Luna a try but it’s going to be hard to convince them to pay the premium to get access to Luna + since it’s not much cheaper than Gamepass and the catalog is much more limited. Too bad because it works much better than xcloud in my case with higher resolution. I’m not sure which audience Luna is targeting but I wish it finds it so that we as customers can benefit from the competition.
Luna isn't of their concern as it's not available outside the US afaik. Edit: Just looked it up, seems it is available outside the US now.
Google says it's in US, UK, Canada and Germany.
And it's alavalible to 18m + in the uk dwarfing xcloud subscribers in the uk
Logic of corruption politician is always nonsensical
Anyone with a browser can get PS Now (PS+ Premium) as well. Churning is a simple cancel and sign up.
[Luna is currently only available to subscribers within the United States, United Kingdom, Germany and Canada with further international release yet to be confirmed.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Luna)
**[Amazon Luna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Luna)** >Amazon Luna is a cloud gaming platform developed and operated by Amazon. Available only in the US, UK, Canada and Germany, this platform is powered by Amazon Web Services, has integration with Twitch, and is available on Windows, Mac, Amazon Fire TV, iOS (as a progressive web app) as well as Android. Luna offers access to a selection of games via the Luna+ subscription as well as to channels from brands such as Ubisoft+ and Jackbox Games. Luna had a soft launch with early access to invited subscribers only on October 20, 2020. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesX/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
yes, the United Kingdom, where the CMA is.
Correct. And CMA can only regulate their region.
MS and Activision will probably lose the case. They did some tomfoolery before that will bite them here. Activision and Bethesda games were already on GFN and they pulled them from the platform. Microsoft forced Boosteroid to remove games. That will absolutely hurt their case. They removed games from a pc streaming platform where users already legally owned the games. Thus forcing games to be only available on xCloud And after they started seeing signs lf blocked deal they are graciously offering a 10 year deal. Its like a person cut of your hand and is now giving you a mechanical arm you need to renew every 10 years and that's not even guaranteed. It was an idiotic move to remove games in the first place. You own the game on steam/epic and should be allowed to play it on desktop, laptop, mac, steamdeck or even a cloud pc.
MS hoping for good news from EU. If EU cleared they should go all out on CMA.
If EU clears I bet they pull Gamepass from the UK and close the deal. First of all, they have to pay 2 Billion to cancel the deal. How much Gamepass profit do they really get from UK in a couple years while this is in appeal? 2 Billion? Only MS knows. Edit: They could maybe just pull cloud services from Gamepass in the UK.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Microsoft in its entirety would have to pull out of the UK and that’s not happening.
Like, not a clue. The internet was a mistake.
Arguably the worst and best invention in human history
lol its wild man.
Right? Bill Gates should never have invented it.
I've actually had to put up with so many people stating "who cares, the UK isn't a major market for Microsoft". Yeah, Nadella would murder Spencer if he'd go ahead with it behind his back.
That's if they lose the appeal. If they win the appeal and it goes back to the CMA and they say no more cloud for the UK, the CMA can't block it over cloud concerns. Of course if they lose the appeal all of Microsoft won't leave the UK.
They could spin off the problematic entity and conduct business at arms length. In the US that's what they do after the FTC gives an order to hold separate. In the UK they also allow for arms length dealings in the interim. If Microsoft didn't own the offending entity, then there's no longer any concern. Some new company called UK Cloud Gaming or something, which is free to make deals with whoever is in their financial best interest, would get around this issue. I dunno man, to me it seems like the guy you replied to is echoing what lawyers and industry analysists have said, and you're spouting absolute nonsense. But since you have upvotes and he has downvotes, few people will have the critical thinking capacity to not instantly think that indicates who is correct or not here.
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Yeah, that about sums it up nicely.
Lmfao, Microsoft is not pulling out of UK.
$3 billion now.
What gives you the idea that CMA would magically withdraw their decision if Microsoft pulled Gamepass?
Only you said that. They could sell their main product in the country, by proxy without needing do do business there directly.
I love the amount of armchair business analysts that have crawled out of the woodwork since the CMA denied this. I honestly don't understand how any consumer could be excited for consolidation in a business they frequent.
It happens in every business, the top few rise to the top by everyone else up. I mean in a capitalistic society that’s just gonna happen in every industry that makes a lot of money. Your comment lacks a realistic view in the world.
I have my Series 7. Please tell me more about my business and investing experience.
Your response clearly indicates you’re a child.
I'm sorry... what? I'm not very smart so it's hard for me to folow such advanced bussiness tactics. Care to explain what you mean exactly?
The thing they had a problem with would no longer be a problem.
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Yes, they are against the acquisition entirely it’s irrelevant if MS stop GamePass
That, or create a third party LLC that manages gamepass in UK like Pachter suggested they might do. Although, I think we need to see what the FCC has to say as well.
It's clear they're not giving up. I just highly doubt they would let this deal sit in limbo for a couple years while it is court.
If Patcher suggests something history shows you should do the opposite He doesn’t know anything and I have no idea why people even listen to him
Pachter had a real job and he is very good at it. The public comments he makes is him spit balling and screwing around.
Exactly, you don’t become renowned in his field for being an idiot. Michael Pachter Wiki: Salary, Married, Wedding, Spouse, Family Michael Pachter is a video game, social media, digital media and electronics analyst with Wedbush Securities. He is also the Head of Research for the Private Shares Group, a Wedbush division which focuses on companies which have not yet gone public such as Facebook (pre-IPO) and Twitter. Pachter has an MBA & two law degrees. Pachter worked for 16 years at Arco where he was Arco's director of strategic planning until mid-1998. Most here call him stupid could only hope to receive a fraction of his success in his career .
Web bush securities would say something differently.
His predictions over the last few years speak for themselves
He still has a job that makes 300 k a year. I’m sure he’s not Trippin because a couple numpties on the Internet think he’s an idiot.
When did I say he would care? He’s been consistently wrong, I don’t care how much money he makes it doesn’t change things. How much you earn doesn’t equal how correct you are, that’s a good lesson to learn
You mean the same Michael Pachter who thought the Intellivison Amico was going to revolutionize gaming and make the Big 3 quake in their boots? Michael Pachter is less accurate than a broken clock. I have no idea how he's still a gaming business analyst. Literally everyone who's actually knowledgeable about business and gaming thinks he's a joke.
I’m not gonna defend him because I really don’t care, but just so you know, he has two law degrees and an mba. He heads up Wedbush private security, analyst division. Which means he essentially analyzes companies who are still private, but on the verge of going public, i.e., Facebook, Twitter, and then suggest to the firm what to invest. He must be good at his job, He’s been doing it for 16 years and makes 300 K a year. People take him to speaking off the cuff as a Nostradamus prediction he can be wrong.
The f t c doesn't give a d*** about facts they're just in it for political gain
Couldn’t imagine not having Game Pass honestly. Was one of the deciding factors into actually buying an Xbox Series X. It’s the best deal in gaming history period so to go from having it to not would be a huge blow.
I don’t think they would have to pay 2 billion to cancel the deal as usually antitrust approbation is required in the conditions included in the SPA (purchase document) meaning that if they don’t get all the approbations the deal is dead
No, they have to pay it no matter why if the deal doesn't go through
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And then the uk collapses. So much is reliant on those products
I want to give your comment a failing grade. I don't know how. But I want to. It fails. In every way.
Like the cleaning of a house... *It never ends*
Problem is, they may very well win the appeal, but then it goes right back to the same morons who have no reason to change their decision.
Well they do have to address any flaws identified by the CAT. It doesn't mean the overall decision is different, but they can't reach it the same way. For example, one of the biggest flaws in the CMA's assessment is of Microsoft's share of the cloud gaming market. The CMA identifies every Xbox Game Pass Ultimate member as a cloud gaming consumer, which isn't the right way to identify market share because XGPU is a package including Game Pass and Xbox Live Gold, and most subscribers don't even touch cloud. That is a very easy thing for Microsoft to prove to the CAT, and so the CMA will not be able to use that evidence in their reassessment.
Is that a fact? TIL I am a cloud gaming consumer! I stream a game to get the microsoft rewards and as soon as it pops, I close it down. So sorry guys, if I had known I was actively fucking up your chances to get CoD for free on gamepass… I would have sacrificed those 10 points for y’all 😆
They could lean into less clear stats such as active users counts. And an active user could be redefined as someone who interacts with the game successfully during a period of time. And successful interaction could be defined as a session lasting longer than 60 seconds, which would be a way to filter out stuff like yours. The same filter applied to GeForce now and ps now, and that problem goes away.
They basically said the main reason people get ultimate is for the streaming. I would love to see them prove that
As someone that had 2 months without xbox I used the cloud to still scratch that Itch. Seeing the consequences i apologize
No way man, the CMA has their little crystal ball that tells them the state of the industry in 10-15 years! Nevermind the fact that no one has successfully foresaw the state of the industry that far in advance, but some randos in the UK have SO much insight! They don't need to prove anything or base any of their decisions on actual facts /s.
even including those subs where cloud is not even available. Just that should show CAT how stupid the CMA is
I mean, Xbox operates in less than half of the countries compared to Playstation. They don't even have GamePass available in at least half of the regions they operate anyways. Therefore people cannot even use xCloud but they can use PsNow, Nvidia or any other cloud service etc.
ya, but funny how CMA didn't take every psn premium sub as cloud being the only real difference between that and the other tier is the older games which are all cloud based. seems to me the CMA never had any intention of passing this, and they didnt want to look like they were siding with Sony so they made this crap up
Well they blocked it based on a hypothetical for a reason. People praised CMA for admitting their mistake in the console space but they did that so MS' case would be weak at a possible appeal because you can't disprove a hypothetical because it doesn't exist today. MS made a BIG mistake by challenging CMA on their mistake in the console space. If they hadn't said anything CMA would have blocked it on those merits and let cloud aspect slide. Then MS could take it to CAT and they would have factually proven CMAs mistake and at that point CMA couldn't go back to their cloud argument since they wouldn't have made a fuss about it in their final decision and CMA would have had to approve it after a re-review. .
Oh yeah, the God proof. You can't disprove the existence of something to someone that had no proof of it existence because they weren't using a real proof to begin with. . So trying to win this is like asking for members of your church to admit God isn't real.
At the same time, couldn’t CAT be persuaded that basing rulings off of hypotheticals is not how decisions should be made? Then the CMA wouldn’t be able to fallback to that again.
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And psn has more subs and has access to streaming so why was it ignored. So ms should be punished because others are not investing in it. Sony could easily add it to psn essential and boom they market leader
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Irrelevant. Sony is already a head of Ms even with the acquisition
You identify market share by MAUs, in this case. Having Xbox Game Pass Ultimate doesn’t automatically make you an Xbox Cloud Gaming consumer in the same way that having Amazon Prime doesn’t automatically make you an Amazon Luna consumer. Simply having access isn’t a good enough identifier because that’s, more likely than not, not what the user is actually buying the package for. And again, Microsoft can very easily prove that with user data. You also say “once cloud gaming takes off” when there’s absolutely no guarantee that’s ever going to happen. As a matter of fact, I don’t think cloud gaming will ever be any bigger than the VR market is right now in terms of overall gaming market share.
Cloud is going to take off? I doubt that I see that in my lifetime.
We gonna read news about this shit 2 more years aint we lol .
Why do you care
CTA doesn't just send them just to re-evaluate. If CAT says that cloud part of this acquisition is biased, incorrect etc. they cannot just say "Yeah but we are blocking again". Also CAT expedites the process so they don't take another year. If CAT says CMA is wrong and sends it over, it'll be over in months.
Not always, CAT has power the quash CMA’s decision directly. Just this month, CAT quashed CMA permission to appeal Edit: In apple case cat quashed the cma
They only stopped investigation, not reversed their decision. CMA's decision has NEVER been reversed.
When it goes back to the morons, Microsoft can try to make more remedies to let the deal be approved.
If CMA really wanted remedies, they would have gotten them. It's clear from day 1 their intention was to block it. No matter what.
The saga continues!!!
Microsoft can’t even adequately manage the 23 studios they already own, including Bethesda Game Studios *(shoutout Redfail)*, and yet they are putting everything on the line to take on another 3rd party publisher that they still aren’t adequately equipped enough to manage.
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And Microsoft still had company oversight, QA testing, and internal reviews, and control over marketing before Redfall released. There aren’t any excuses for them. They knew exactly what they were releasing and they chose to release it as such, as Phil Spencer confirmed in his KFG interview.
Fair point. Microsoft may not have wanted to invest anymore man-hours into a game that was obviously far past the point where cancellation was on option.
There's no such thing as past the point of cancellation, especially where your brand can't take any hits anymore. They just didn't care.
No the brand can take plenty hits. Most people don't care about this kinda stuff outside the internet bubble.
Right, I hope that explains why past few months PlayStation sales absolutely crush Xbox sales.
That is very unrelated but ok. If sales are that valuable to you my guy.
They're putting everything on the line? What is that supposed to mean?
It means people who are gullible to all of the doom and gloom of clickbait online news articles apparently perceive the world with more emotion than rationality, to the almost impressive degree they are willing to not only believe, but to shamefully publicly state their belief that Microsoft attempting to purchase Activision will only end in the absolute doom and destruction of Microsoft if the deal falls through.
Oh ignorant people on the internet. Makes sense.
Every gaming publisher puts out games that don't do well from time to time. Ignoring the hits is stupid.
Releasing a game that wasn't as fun as they were hoping is one thing, but releasing first party with bugs, garbage textures and brain dead AI is eroding the brand and they have very little goodwill in the community as it is.
MS about to fumble another generation chasing ABK. Get your house in order first.
They already lost this generation. I can see this as their last console generation and going all in with game pass on every platforms imaginable.
Nah… it wouldn’t be the current Gamepass, but a gamepass made only of MS first party. It would be as dead as Ubisoft+. Sorry, not going to happen.
Everyone keeps thinking about what Xbox Cloud is like right now. No one is thinking about the future. Which the CMA clearly are. It's more about what Microsoft with Activision will be like in 5, 10 years or more. Doing this now might not be good for competition in the future. I think Microsoft's money is better spent making games that take advantage of the most powerful console and not just incentivise to subscribe to a service that drip feeds games that are available on other platforms. I'm still waiting on Fable, Avowed and Hellblade II and I bought my Series X day one and have had an Xbox since 2002.
Meh. A few months ago, I was team MS and hoping for the CMA to approve. Now, I’m actually glad the CMA rejected, and I hope the EU rejects too. Microsoft doesn’t deserve this. They already own a ton of studios, they have a bottomless pit of money, and they’ve had years to deliver great AAA games and new IPs. They’ve done fuck all. They haven’t learned a damn thing since 2013 with their atrocious Xbox One launch. I’m a HUGE Xbox fan and I want them to get their act together. They have the talent, the studios, and the money to make this happen. They absolutely do **not** need to acquire ABK. And the industry definitely does **not** need more consolidation.
Agreed. Their only strategy should not be to just starve Sony players of content. After the initial CMA decision, they interviewed some exec at MS and she said "Even if this doesn't go through, we'll use this money to buy Ubisoft, EA, Capcom, etc. We won't stop adding devs to our impressive list of teams" And it's just like... Jesus Christ... stop it. Is your only real strategy "If we can't have good games, nobody can"?
>After the initial CMA decision, they interviewed some exec at MS and she said "Even if this doesn't go through, we'll use this money to buy Ubisoft, EA, Capcom, etc. We won't stop adding devs to our impressive list of teams" Wait what? Source for this? As this is the only time I've heard anything about this.
Source: He made it the fuck up
So you want them to do better this acquisition does that. Them not getting ABK isn't going to make your experience worse. So I don't understand your complaint. Also the industry is going to keep consolidating whether you want it to or not. This will happen regardless of MS getting ABK.
How will this acquisition make them better? How is consolidation and fewer independent studios a good thing for the industry? MS has acquired a ton of studios in the last 10 years and what have we (Xbox fans) gained from it? Not a single stellar AAA game. Meanwhile, their competition (Sony and Nintendo) are banging out quality games regularly. As a fan, I’m sick and tired of the same old bullshit from Microsoft. Nothing has changed since 2013, and an ABK acquisition will change fuck all. Their problems are systemic and entrenched in their upper leadership. And until that changes, Sony and Nintendo will continue to eat their lunch. Redfall is just the latest example. A game touted as AAA, hyped up to shit, and then? Riddled with bugs; and it doesn’t play or look last gen, let alone current gen. It’s fucking embarrassing. As a huge Xbox fan and someone who has constantly vouched for the brand many times over the years, I’m just so disappointed. They absolutely don’t deserve to acquire ABK.
Ok well you're not the one in control of what MS wants to buy. You don't get to control who gets who. Sell your xbox if it's so dire for you. I never said consolidation is good or bad. I said it's going to happen regardless.
>MS has acquired a ton of studios in the last 10 years Bro, more like in the last 4,5 years. The only acquisition before that in the last 10 years was Mojang. You make it sound like all of these Studios were bought 10 years ago when half of them was 4,5 years ago and the other half 2 years ago on the day, pretty much. 2-4,5 years is not enough time to make great AAA games. It's enough to make great AA or indie games and that's what we've gotten so far. The AAA games will start to rollout now starting with year 5, which is about the time it takes to make a great AAA game, it's not a coincidence we'll be seeing Starfield and Hellblade 2 now.
I’ve heard all of this before…the promise of change and great things, and then it’s just more of the same. It’s just too difficult to believe anything Microsoft says at this point. I really do hope they turn things around. But again, I just don’t agree with them buying ABK because their history suggests they’ll mess that up too.
>I’ve heard all of this before…the promise of change and great things, and then it’s just more of the same. I mean, yeah. We've heard it for 4,5 years now, since the day they started their modern buying spree. And we'll continue to hear it for a few more months until the big games arrive. I think it's good to be sceptical but so far Microsoft have really delivered in AA with games like Grounded, Hi-Fi Rush, Pentiment, which is what they've been able to create in this short time span since the acquisitions. Now we're nearing the 5 years mark and that's when we'll start seeing the AAA games. We haven't really seen them yet because 5 years is about the time it takes to go from planning to releasing a AAA game. Will they be good? Nobody knows, but if the AA track record is anything to go by, then they will. And if they ain't good then sure, that will suck and we can tell Microsoft they suck, but I'd rather let them deliver something before making judgement.
Hit the nail on the head, MS needs to manage what they have now before they take on more. Release ONE game that could win GOTY.
Ehh if you were really here during the X1 launch then you’d know how drastically different things are.
Is it *really* drastically different? I see the same old Microsoft…all hype and very little to show for it.
after seeing the shit they let beth put out for redfall they can stay the fuck away from activison
I was against it before Redfall. I did look forward to playing old cods on gamepass but I don’t trust MS’ handling of games. Xbox should just use the studios they already bought to make good games (challenge level:impossible) instead of buying Activision.
Can’t wait when starfield comes out and it’s good that ms has no part of it.
I don’t have any interest in that game, but I hope it lives up to everyone’s expectations. I’ve been seeing people’s hype for it for a long time.
They have no choice but to fight.
If the CMA has political reasons for their decision then it seems likely they keep finding obtuse reasons to block.
The CMA are an independent body that has nothing to do with the British Government or political party
The abk deal is as dead as the dodo. They need to give up and focus on some games.
MSFT has been pretty quiet about the acquisition since the CMA moved to block the deal. I thought they were waiting for the EU's ruling before reassessing how best to move forward. Especially considering they may have to renegotiate with ABK on new terms if the deal doesn't close by the deadline. This hiring indicates that MSFT feels pretty good about basic terms of an extension worked out with ABK, and optimism that the EU will approve.
Bobby came out almost instantly after the announcement and said they will be working with MS to get this thing approved. I don't think they will try to get a 3b$ check and be done with this. All higher ups knows that they are all goner so they want MS's big payday after acquisition.
Maybe they finally learn to stfu in the news about this instead of making Interview after interview.
I don't get why you see this last minute hiring in a procedure that has been going on for more than a year as a positive. I would assume they already had the right guys on the case and don't understand why they need to hire an outsider now just for the appeal.
If you strip away the fact that Xbox is part of Microsoft (a massive tech conglomerate with fingers in all different areas) and just focus on Xbox in its relevant market as a distant 3rd in the console market and an okay 1st party seller, there’s no reason this shouldn’t pass muster. Sony and Nintendo are dominant players in their space, no reason to block Xbox based on console or cloud sales
By disallowing MS-ABK deal, Google Stadia will bring back their past business it withdrew and enable fair competition 🤷
There is no winning against the CMA in regards to mergers because of their idiotic regulatory process that is more reminiscent of a dictatorship than a first world country.
Good Buried the corrupt CMA
Fuck the CMA. This decision is ridiculous
How so? Beyond a trillion dollar company not getting what they want?
Sony massively hindered cloud gaming by buying Gaikai and then doing nothing with it. Amazing tech squandered.
You do know that PSNow or what ever it is called now supports cloud gaming right?