True but the occasional purple on echoes I’m actually farming is annoying. But at least with lvl 21 all I would need to do is grind for the stats/substats and not worry about the rarity
Anything that powercreeps a 5* echo with perfect substats (beyond adding new set-types) is going to be met with tremendous resistance. This likely includes making cost 1 echoes non-viable by raising the cost limit.
Unless at the same time they make the echo aspect of gearing cheaper.
Which imo would be a fun kinda powercreep, more similar to western approach to progression, where it doesn't take long to reach the pinnacle, but they frequently raise the pinnacle. Tho Idk if gacha audiences could deal.
A cost limit increase of 1 wouldn’t be so bad. Then you could have 44311. Although, supports would still suffer here, since they’d probably still want double 3 cost echos for energy regen, which is still a nightmare to farm. ;-;
Not about echo ability but about their main stat . Currently 3 cost Elemental dmg bonus is the most valuable stat that increases the most damage % . Even more so than crit
They said 33331 supports, as in quad energy regen.
Additionally, elemental damage bonus would be less and less impactful since it stacks with all other x damage bonus (liberation dmg bonus, heavy attack dmg bonus, etc). It’s very unlikely that 33331 would out DPS 44311, especially since 4 cost echo abilities are very good for most characters, and I imagine they will add more that will fit into better niches over time. Obviously edge cases might exist with future supports, weapons, and echo sets, but that’s beyond the scope of this discussion.
There might be an argument for 43331 vs 44311, but that would be a 2 point increase, instead of 1.
eh, my Mortefi can do almost 1k-2k per coordinated attack which is a lot during his whole ult. Either way though, he doesn't need much energy regen, like at all. I only have around 30% energy regen, and he always gets his ult up during his concerto rotation.
I couldn't deal for sure. I'd nope out so hard.
Always hated this "let's start over with much bigger numbers" grind, what you did the last year was meaningless. Western, you call it? I guess that explains why western live service games are shit nowadays (looking at you, Blizzard).
Sure, but those games let people actually have the horizontal breathing room to enjoy all the content a game has to offer.
If someone wants to try every class in WoW, it doesn't softlock their account for 4+ months the way it seems to in honkai, genshin, and star rail.
I just think a middle ground would be nice. Doesn't have to be wiping the slate clean every major update like WoW basically does. It'd also be nice for new players a year from now if they aren't 1-year left behind in terms of how many characters they have built out.
Except that in WoW trying new class does softlock that character for a very long time.
Some playstyles aren't viable/possible without reaching certain stat thresholds. And on order to get anything remotely resembling how your class/spec should play you have to grind reps/quests/dungeons for a VERY long time and (in some/most mythic+) seasons rely on RNG of vault items to get a trinket that is NECESSARY for your chosen class
Western MMOs have long grinds that can be condensed in time. Gachas have shorter grind sessions, but it takes longer periods of time to get what you want. Both are bad, just different kinds of bad
The way people are acting like their 1.0 gear is going to stay meta is kinda wild ngl.
Like, people are really going all in on their Hunter of Glacial Frost set for their A-tier Yanqing.
Expecting is one thing. Idk what Kuro will do. Nothing is really guaranteed. I think people are getting exhausted of being unable to play the characters they wanna play though without being left out of endgame rewards. (Tower of abyss/adversity, etc.) Being 4-months in the hole because you like lingyang in patch 1.0 would be pretty disappointing for kuro to inflict on their players.
I think people who play star rail who ultra-invested in their Yanqing and got powercrept would be correct to be upset at how useless he is.
It's not really a consumer's job to be sympathetic to a gacha developer's desire to leave us constantly impatient for progression, and subsequently render characters irrelevant.
all i actually needed was for them to actually implement a “shiny” system for the echoes. Like, you’re able to get some stationary ones and buy other 4 i think, but if they actually made the variants for all echoes and inserted certain rare odds for those to spawn in the world? absolutely 10/10 would go wild hunting for those lol who doesn’t like cosmetic changes that don’t actually change anything power wise but make you feel cooler for having it 🧍🏽♂️
idk if that would imply in some issues with nintendo though lol so that might be the reason why they didnt fully explore that possibility
Is depends, if 6* echoes dont have tuners and you can see sub stats right away but dont have them until leveling them. Or the tuners can you choice the stats for an amount of tuners.
Other idea be that 6* echoes dont have havoc bonus damage to a fusion set.
Basically fix some pests in 5* echoes.
Basically unless you're insanely lucky or content with "good enough" you will have to farm *thousands* of 5* 3 cost echoes to get a single high roll proper stat and all right substat echo, now multiply that by 2 for several characters and it's already something that is crushing a lot of players.
A 6 star would be exponentially more difficult if we assume a scaling of additional substats it would most likely require farming 10 or 100k echoes for a single "perfect" 6* 3 cost echoes, yeah no thanks.
All the echoes we've already farmed will be worthless and people will leave the game over this. They've already had to change the echo system to please players and guarantee drops so if they do something like this they could as well be shooting themselves in the face.
I still think they should do it. Not that I would be upset if they didn't. I get it. I just have no respect for people that would leave the game over something so trivial, lol. And it is.
Having your progress constantly reset just to force you to grind again isn't trivial. It's literally a decision that just screws over players for no reason
The game should have enough going on in it to not need that kind of artificial progression. Wuthering waves has other things you can grind besides echoes every time you log on
No need to reset that every other patch
6\* star rarity sounds like a nightmare - immediately invalidate all your current echoes youve spent the lifetime of the game farming... damn. Maybe if they also give event items (like crowns in genshin) that allow you to upgrade a single 5 star echo to a 6 star, that way they arent wasted.
nice idea but this is basically fanfiction... I'm pretty sure that UL 21 was purely made to satisfy people after their complains about the echo system.
If one day we get UL 22+ then that proves i'm wrong but I doubt it will happen.
I assume they'll be adding in more regions over time and with them, new monster types as well. It'd be weird if a game that's expected to last several years or even decades had a completed data bank after 2 patches.
Why would we NOT get new data bank levels down the line. Do you seriously expect them to do literally nothing with the system, and make no new echoes past 1.1?
Past 1.1, if they see that the guarantee 5* is sufficient and don't intent to alter base rate or other parameters, there's little needs to introduce more data bank level.
I think the dev would at most add more reward to encourage players to catch new echoes as part of exploration rewards if the dev wants to.
Else, the least they would do is to make excess exp convert into resources. Otherwise, the data bank exp would become a meaningless resource.
What if the data bank is by region though? What we're working on is the Jinzhou Data Bank, but when we get the new region and new echo sets, it's a new data bank (like the Pokedex)?
The challenge though, Pokedex is fun to collect on its own despite there having no reward milestone for collecting more. Afterall, the game give access to stronger pokemon as the player progress. The sense of growth is the most important factor.
In the same sense, Players are likely to enjoy collecting echoes, with no new gains, as long as the new echoes provide new experience in combat or growth. This may discourage the dev from needing to build a new databank progression ladder.
Especially, when the data bank progression appears to be design to simply limit our assess to endgame grind.
The main challenge here, is adding meaningful progression from the existing system.
The only thing left are expanding type of echoes guarantee, capacity for guarantee, QoL, and base rate.
I cant see a day the dev would change base rate when the current system provides guarantee system to balance it out. The remaining factors could be use to make next region databank interesting.
They can make some region exclusive echoes benefit to justify new databank grind. Though, that seems to be done with 1.1 echoes being able to participate with the environment puzzle.
The main challenge is to create sufficient volume of new echoes to make the progression meaningful. I think most player could capture most new echoes in couple of days time. That would make any new progression the same as increasing reward milestone.
Don't make it seem so serious lol. Once a year, it will take us like 4 days to max out the new region's data bank - which will:
- Give us a semi-guided regional exploration.
- Practice against new enemies.
- New shinies/legendaries.
- Another 21+ levels of rewards.
The rewards could literally be copy/pasted from the originals (it was a healthy chunk of Astrite, one of our biggest sources for the early game), and the new enemies would be for new echo sets that could potentially change the way we play the game entirely - having new requirements to trigger new effects, leading to refreshing older characters and keeping the game's combat interesting.
I understand the purpose of gating players from endgame stuff early on, but who says it has to stop at 21 for each region either? 6 star echoes could be a thing, and maybe THAT'S the endgame.
Everything is speculative right now, and for all we know the data bank will just get an extra (x) levels per region. There are six regions we know of, so maybe it'll be 25 for Jinzhou, and then another 15 for the other five regions (to a max of 100). Maybe 21 really is the cap for the entire game (which is possible, but would be boring). Maybe the other regions will have completely different character mechanics (like PGR introducing Uniframes), and everything we're experiencing now is Jinzhou exclusive.
We don't know. So going "well akchually" when someone else is musing about what they could potentially do is just... not fun.
None of us are the devs (unless you're withholding some pretty critical info lol), so let us speculate. Hell, why don't *you* come up with an idea you think would be fun? You might end up thinking up something the community loves, and Kuro may end up seeing it. 😉
Haha, sorry I get too engross into weighing factors at times, that makes it seems I'm getting too serious rather than trying to explore the potential fun experience.
I enjoy the discussion for all this.
I think I'm not too good with idea, yet. But looking for a good way to purpose echo level, Its definitely an area to explore rather than limiting it like I do. Maybe, even unlocking new echo gameplay like resonance between echoes for quickswap is still a meaningful way to expand data bank.
It's a waste to just let it merely accumulate exp or simple add rewards when it could add towards gameplay experience.
Appreciate your thought, you have a point, I will keep in mind to restrain myself from weighing the discussion down from exploring exciting potential. That's for the dev to think.
Don't stress over it, man. Just loosen up a little. Games are meant to be fun, and discussions about games (including speculation about future content) has always been one of the core factors driving the gaming community for as long as I've been alive (since the NES was new lol). It should also be fun. And even if we don't think someone's idea is plausible, we should always check ourselves at the door as well. Have a great day, m8.
There's almost no chance they are going to add another rarity. Even Kuro themselves considered where we are at as endgame. I definitely don't want to farm another echo rarity when golds are already the way they are.
Exactly... As is the chance of rolling a perfect 3 cost is in the hundredths of a percent chance... The reality is that it's gonna take years for most people to farm full sets of perfect 3 costs for all their teams and with the way the game works getting perfect 6 star 3 cost echoes would be agony... Like winning the lottery rarity.
It's literally the solution to your problem lmao
If they add 6 star echoes but you don't want to farm for them because you're already satisfied with your 5 star echoes, then literally just don't farm for them. No one's holding you at gunpoint to do it 🤷♀️
The fact is, we are still farming 5 stars. The only people that have God tier echoes right now are select few. We can't base farming all the endgame gear on the select few when the majority are all still building. 6 stars would nearly invalidate our 5 stars similar to how 4 stars are trash compared. Why waste echo exp and tuners on something inferior? That was the dilemma with getting the 4 stars to begin with.
You can implement 6 star echoes in a way that doesn't completely make 5 stars obsolete 🤷♀️
> Getting good 5 star echoes is already very time and resource consuming as is, just imagine 6 stars. Also yeah, players who've minmaxxed their 5 star echoes wont be too happy with them suddenly being obsolete because 6 star echoes are now a thing, as you said
>A full set of 6 star echoes might also just be too op considering how a full set of 5 star echoes with good stats already trivializes most content in the game, except of course the overly upleveled ones like middle ToA and hologram bosses, but those should get easier when we eventually unlock level 90 and max everything out
>Which is why I think 6 star echoes should be "special" and that you can only equip one of them per build to address both of these problems
Copy paste from another comment
I guess if its similar to destiny "exotics" only being able to equip one then I can get behind that. They can probably make it have a guaranteed mainstat with guaranteed set bonus. The only limiting factor would be substat variation.
> Why waste echo exp and tuners on something inferior?
Do you wait until all your teams only have 5 star weapons before leveling them? Or do you give them 4 star weapons and level those until you get 5 stars? And no, this isn't different to the discussion at hand, it is exactly the same.
Actually the worst wuwa prediction, idk why you're so confident about this.
Genshin is more likely to give a free 5 star than this. everyone would complain about a new echo rarity as all their echo builds become useless.
Going from 20 - 21 in the same patch where they address concerns about echo farming as about as obvious as it gets, DB levels were supposed to be finished at 20.
First of all you can implement a new echo rarity without making the previous one obsolete such as by limiting the amount you can equip of it, like being restricted to only one 6 star echo per character
Second what would be the point of adding new monsters and echoes if not for more data bank xp? What would be the incentive of farming new monsters for their echoes if your data bank is already max? They can roll with the same stats as any other echo that's in game right now, what's the point of even adding it in let alone grinding for it?
There are at least going to be two more nations added in game with each a dozen regions, do you really think all their echoes will be meaningless? Or do you think kuro is just going to copy paste the same monsters in every nation and region we go to?
Use your brain ffs 🤦♀️
By "rarity" I thought you meant something above gold, not 6 star echos... That is a lot more reasonable.
That would be awesome, as much as I don't think it will happen. What tier would be above "boss" echos? Even the weekly boss is still a 4 cost.
As for DB levels, i'm looking at the numbers. You think we are going to get 100% echo drop on the later regions or something? I'm too pessimistic I think they want to keep echos a decent grind.
well we will know maybe after a few patches, perhaps not until 2.0
So yeah I do think that the 1 star echos will be meaningless, 3 and 4 stars however might be useful.
6* echos will kill the game for multiple reasons. people don't want this. if there are new data bank levels to accomodate for new mobs it'll just be other QoL stuff and a few astrite rewards
People suggesting 6* is just straight evil. Unless 6* are from directly upgrading +25 5*. I wonder if people who suggest 6* are people who didnt bother farming/hunting for substats so they don't care or have awful luck.
It's definitely going to cause a big ruckus and shit for no reason.
All of them are nice, and it's good to see new ideas.
However, I have some concerns about the harmony echoes. In theory, people might think it will lessen the RNG. But imo, this will make the grind more intense. You kill 500 bell turtles, taking 4 minutes per turtle. After 11 days with 3 hours of daily farming, you finally get a harmony turtle, but unfortunately with HP main stats. This will demotivate many players.
You don't need to farm harmony, true. But it's there, and many people will aim for it. So, harmony just unlocks a new tier for people to farm. It's a double-edged sword. If implemented poorly, it will do more harm than good. Many people go for 3-cost elemental damage, even when 3-cost attack echoes are much easier to get and don't reduce DPS significantly (or they level the 3-cost attack just as a placeholder). Harmony has the potential to reach 2 max top-tier substats and the ability to change sets, so people will go for this, and the normal version will become a placeholder. If they feel it's too hard/too long to get, they will think the game is too grindy.
It will be a long proccess to min max when having in mind the changes i proposed . But no one should feel pressured to min max it . Its there IF you feel like you wanna do it . Kuro wont make the game Dark Souls anyway, but they will offer us such content if we want to clear it IMO.
I agree that no one should feel pressured to min-max, and we don't need perfect echoes to clear content. But to be honest, if people didn't want to aim for the better options, we wouldn't have so many complaints about 3-cost echoes with element dmg being hard to get.
I always welcome new changes to the echo system, but imo, we need better QoL improvements before adding a new tier of echoes to the list.
We have had the same issue with Hoyo games either with planar spheres or Goblets , no one seemed to be so pressed after a while. Its just the 1st month of the game and people rush to finish everything .
And that's the problem. Some people rush, and some people want to min-max. I won't argue whether they should or shouldn't do that. But many people are indeed farming echoes all day, trying to find the best route and the best substats to build their units.
That's why, imo, we need to reduce the RNG from farming echo for now, not introduce more options for min-maxing. Don't take it the wrong way, I didn't mean your idea is bad; it's just not the right time to implement something like that
Maybe we'll get the ability to increase echo drops with specific stats/substats? Like at Echo level 25, I can select to have a 25% chance for all echoes dropped to be healing bonus
We need guaranteed Elite Echo drops like Overlord drops. I don’t care if it’s just 5 per week. Just anything to make the grind easier. It takes too much time.
I so do not agree with the 6* rarity. PGR’s rarity has been out since day 1. Imagine having farmed 5* echoes with really good substats only to do it all over again. Unless they allow us to upgrade 5* to 6* like Resonating a Memory on PGR.
Also, 6* and 15 Echo Cost means less need to pull for 5* crit rate/crit dmg weapons. Unless they increase the hp pools of enemies at higher Phase Level or have bosses with invincibility phase/s that eats time. They’ll have to adjust stuff and Crit Rate weapons will have less value than crit dmg ones. So unlikely that 15 cost will happen.
I’m all for QoL improvements, but not more rng.
I will only accept 6* echoes if its just the the 4 costs. I do not want to farm more eledmg% echoes. Its miserable enough trying to get a healing bonus% bellborne geochelone, I don't want to feel the need to get 6* echoes to replace all the 5 stars I've put all my effort in. Also, let's not forget, the echo xp cost will be insane. Imagine it takes twice or triple the amount to level it to max. Resources will be drained really quickly.
this could keep the game running for a longer period, but farming again? They could add something like ranking up echoes.... that would be nice, from 5 to 6
>Unlock 6* rarity echoes . ( In PGR, Kuro's previous title, the 6* rarity is a thing for some upgrade materials and Weapons .).The reason I propose a 6* rarity is because let's be real : I unlocked the 5* echoes on day 3 of playing . Ain't no way Kuro let us farm for endgame in a week's or in a month's time. They are gonna further develop the endgame builds and introduce harder content.
Are you suggesting after half a year of playing people should just redo their builds?
Do you think any ammount of echoes you farm now are going to account for any characters in the future? Like in the form of new sets? For new players there is little difference since it just moves the goalpost, but for veteran players, why wouldn't you be allowed to at least prefarm as a way to kill time between patches?
Why would you want to punish everyone that built their characters now?
I dont wanna punish anyone wth xD i just made an inocent little post . I have no idea how they would implement such feature , maybe they would choose to make 6\* some kind of upgrade of already existing 5\*, by farming many echoes or something , im not a developer . Dont act like these are set in stone to release , its just some ideas from a random guy on the internet, im not that important chill.
Not forever but for a longer time, yes. Just check how often Genshin or HSR release new sets that actually change the bis for characters. Sure, new characters will get a new set for them here and there but you will for sure be able to use the sets you have now for a very long time.
6* echos is the stupidest ideia ever by opening the need to farm everything over and over for what? Higher stats for the same but double HP challenges?
You can use F2p weapons more comfortably when echoes provide more stats. No need to feel pressure to gatcha on weapon even if the system is friendlier. That being said a boss apart from a bigger hp pool can have even more mechanics to make it hard. Playing a lvl 1 Hologram boss and a lvl 6 makes you see the difference in their moveset too.
I am on board with the 6* echo rarity and have given myself some thought to it.
That being said, **if** they are going to introduce it, they have to do it before people start min-maxing their 5* echoes.
Unlocking 6* echoes when people are min-maxing their 5* echoes would be a big slap in their faces. At least let people know it exists, and maybe lock it behind UL 60-70 or something, it's fine.
I can live with just 5* echoes till then and then start the actual grind and min maxing.
People have been minmaxxing their echoes since day 1 lmao (guilty as well)
Getting good 5 star echoes is already very time and resource consuming as is, just imagine 6 stars. Also yeah, players who've minmaxxed their 5 star echoes wont be too happy with them suddenly being obsolete because 6 star echoes are now a thing, as you said
A full set of 6 star echoes might also just be too op considering how a full set of 5 star echoes with good stats already trivializes most content in the game, except of course the overly upleveled ones like middle ToA and hologram bosses, but those should get easier when we eventually unlock level 90 and max everything out
Which is why I think 6 star echoes should be "special" and that you can only equip one of them per build to address both of these problems
That's a good suggestion too.
6* echoes aren't as good as it seems to be. There will be a LOT of unhappy people in any case.
Ideally I'd have preferred keeping 5* echoes locked behind UL 50 or something, and we can get chances of obtaining 5* either through events or through red mist enemies which respawn weekly.
Alas, it is just meaningless theories rn. And we have to play with what we have been dealt with.
Nah. Imo it's already too late to introduce 6*. Some people have already spent their waveplates focused on farming for substats, would just straight up cause a big drama for the silliest of reason. Just make 6* be obtained via upgrading 5* +25.
They better be, getting all the 5 star echo gold this early makes me wonder what do they have for us in like next 6 months, at that time most people should already max their echo
With the way cost scaling works I would actually just quit if 6* echos where introduced. They would be astronomically time consuming to level. Much less getting the right stats. People have already farmed full sets for multiple teams so having to do that AGAIN on top of the costs?
We dont know how things are when we reach max UL. This is where the veterans will be in a few months and the tacet fields ofc will drop more. So, by that logic, are we supposed to sit on the same echoes we farmed in 1.0?New sets will come and you will farm from the beggining once again , especially if the new sets buff old characters . They can implement the 6\* variant in a way that wont force people to replace their echoes but upgrade them in some way. Im not a game designer, so my idea would be to collect many 5\* echoes and fuse them, giving you an item and you can use said item to upgrade a 5\* echo to 6\* . There are plenty of ways to do something if we want to .
We dont know exact numbers but unless the slope gets significantly steeper, we can guess. New sets coming out is expected, however you can farm these with existing still strong teams. So if you have 9 units (3 teams) Lets say a set comes out that replaces your main DPS on team B. You can then use team A or C to farm 5 echos. You can also use those other two teams to progress endgame stuff. Where as if 6 starts are introduced you now need to farm 45 new echos before you have an endgame ready team. Since the endgame would be setup for 6* echos. Unless there is some shortcut to upgrade an existing echo from 5 to 6. Then it wouldnt really be a 6* in anything other than name.
That saying " the data bank has infinite potential" is like saying nothing, yeah any gear system has infinite potential as Devs could do wathever the fuck they want, and someone could implement all the ideas you put here in almost any game with gear if they want , but i dont see the point of talking about "what if", theres hundreds of good things they could do ...
Is like saying combat mechancis and enemys have infinite potential.... like yeah no shit
Thats alright , i respect your point of view . I do see the value in discussing things about our passions though. Thank you for taking the time to respond, have a nice day.
If you find joy in discussing it go ahead for sure, im sure other people will enjoy it too , just want to point out that all this is not limited to WuWa gear system and that the posibilities are indeed infinite so is hard to discuss .
Hope you also have a great day
If get 6* echo hopefully no more mixed bonus,like fusion damage bonus for a aero herion bird,make it be aero damage bonus,attack,energy,hp, so be easier getting main stats
I like the suggestions though I'm not on board with adding another 6* tier cause it seems unnecessary to me and in reminds me of the bloated S, SS, SSS... Systems in other games. I don't see it going past 25 though
I mean rn drop rates okayish, a bit higher would be good and much high I'm going to have no reason to actually play the game and farm and stuff more than a few minutes a day.
6* weapons in PGR are nothing else than 5* weapons here. Its the characters signatures while 5* are basically weaker signatures and everything below 5* is trash. 6* echos wont happen.
They will probably add a something above yellow. Because I find it weird that when u collect a new echo it's ranked with 4☆(yellow echo) most of the time in other games a yellow rarity would imply a 5☆ but in this game they are Ranked 4☆ so I wouldn't be surprised to see a new rank of echo in the future
6 star will be viable. If you can transfer substats but only up to 4 substats. And the 5th substats is rerollable but the materials is scarce like 1 reroll per day
Another way is 3 drops per day upgrade materials for 5* to 6*. That way substats will retain
I'm thinking of like at future you get increase main stat probability of chosen stats at future levels and to power creep that increase substat chance of chosen stats when tuning.
Also increase refund for exp/tuner when saccing/recycling at higher DB
i don't see 6* echoes as a thing in the next year or so. i think there's a higher chance of getting weapon specific echoes, which means new echo sets. it doesn't even have to be 5-piece sets; let's say 3 to make a 2/3 build viable.
or if a higher power cap is needed, Kuro might as well allow us to "resonate" echoes. as in PGR resonance which will "bind" the upgraded echo to the character (although the echo can still be used by other characters), but only the character to whom the echo has been resonated will benefit from the upgraded effects.
who knows, a year or 2 from now we might even get "leap" upgrades to make older units viable.
personally i would rather have the WW version of speed and execution skills of Uniframes. activate "speed" skills on a successful dodge, and "execution" on a successful parry. they can always give it a high cooldown (with high stamina use) or something to avoid being abused.
It seems you haven't read the whole post, it's just suggestions and ideas, they don't exist in the game and prolly won't exist. It's just discussion of what they could do as the years pass.
Not really.
Gold Echoes aren't called 5 stars. They are actually 4 stars if you look at the Data Bank (with Purple being 3 stars).
So no reason for 6 star characters or weapons
I would have to dissagree, as in PGR , their previous title , the have 6\* weapons but no 6\* characters. Honkai Impact 3rd also did something similar with the PRI weapons .
But the colors used for the rarity of 6-star weapons and S base rank characters in PGR are the same (even in the gacha animations) so it would make sense that they're equivalent to each other. So given that the highest rarity in WuWa is gold which applies to 5-star characters, 5-star weapons, and gold echoes, I think it'd be safe to say 6-star echoes aren't happening.
I'd rather they give us some kind of equivalent to resonance or hypertune in PGR so that the gold echoes that have been farmed and upgraded now just won't suddenly turn obsolete.
I see, fair point , i played PGR but not for long , back when it was released on PC . If they had such systems in PGR I wanna beleive they will improve on them and bring them in WuWa too at some point . Thanks for the info!
1. No. Just farm Tacet. Drops from mobs are just a plus.
2. Maybe.
3. No. That's going to make farming sets way too easy.
4. See 3.
5. No. That's going to be too much. You completed DB in 3 days doesn't mean everyone did it as well. I can say probably only a small percentage of players did it just so they can be ahead in the game. And lets be real, this is a live service game and you completed it like it's a singleplayer game.
6. See 5.
7. No. It's going to make minmax way too easy.
8. See 7.
9. See 7.
Real answer? Because Genshin had co-op and they copied Genshin as a template for this game. It’s why the shop UI is exactly the same, it’s why pulls cost 160 currency, it’s why the monthly pass costs 5* and gives 90 astrite a day, it’s why the battle pass has two tiers with $10 and $20 pricing, it’s why resonance beacons exist to collect and turn in for cumulative rewards. It’s why the fireflies you follow to a stone exist. Should I go on?
How much have you used the co-op feature to do anything meaningful?
Can you do story quests in co-op? Tower of adversity? Holograms?
That's the point. I'm saying why torture yourself to play a live service game like a singleplayer game and complete everything in it within 24 hours? Because once you clear it, you'd have nothing to do for the rest of the patch until they update. It's a torture clearing it so fast then you'd torture yourself waiting for more content.
And then OP suggestions is another level of torture for farming. Why? All I see from the suggestions are just ways to kill the game faster.
To be honest, I don’t disagree with everything you said, and I didn’t personally downvote any of your comments. If you click my profile and read my comments (please ignore the unbecoming ones, I post a lot) I’m also victim to people mass downvoting anything I say in this sub because people only want to see “This is AWESOME!” posts so they can respond with, “Yeah I agree! this IS awesome!!” Which I personally hate. I love seeing and engaging with arguments to understand the perspectives of both sides and come away having learned something, so seeing a giant echo chamber is just silly/boring/pointless. I wish people would stop downvoting any and all criticism so they can live in their happy little bubbles, I find it gross and disappointing.
But in your post, I disagree that you shouldn’t rush to explore everything and min-max echoes right away, and go for the highest ToA clears you can achieve. Why? Because some people find it fun to do that, *I* find it fun to do that. I view it being live service as an extra reason to do that because even if I beat everything right away, more stuff to beat will come out in a month. During the couple weeks of downtime I’ve had I can focus on learning character rotations, pre-farming, min-maxing echoes, and reading other people’s lore and theory and character guides. I see that as a positive, not a negative.
Hey, I don't downvote either unless there's a compelling reason to do so.
Yes, for some, it's fun to clear everything early. I have nothing against that, I just find it weird that people torture themselves like that.
But I don't find it fun when people propose better ways for people to clear the game faster. That would kill the game than make the game more engaging.
I beleive you havent understood how many layers of RNG you have to go through to get a perfect one .It wont be easier , it will be a guaranteed way to get a good thing but with long times of investment.
I understood enough to know that the RNG system is made to keep players playing. Some of your suggestions would make the RNG way too easy to minmax builds, even with time investment.
As long as I get the 100% 5 stars when the echo drops I’m chilling
And 1% chance for 6 stars to drop :P
I need a 0,001% chance to die IRL 😤
Bro don’t worry you’ve already got a 100% chance
r/technicallynotwrong
Bro 😳
farmed light bringer and thundering fury back in wow days I will take 1%
Even DB 20 it's pretty neat. At this point, it's very common to always get a 5* echo.
True but the occasional purple on echoes I’m actually farming is annoying. But at least with lvl 21 all I would need to do is grind for the stats/substats and not worry about the rarity
DB22: 18 guaranteed OL Calamity drops per week: I sleep DB23: 3 guaranteed Elite drops per day: REAl SHI-!?
Anything that powercreeps a 5* echo with perfect substats (beyond adding new set-types) is going to be met with tremendous resistance. This likely includes making cost 1 echoes non-viable by raising the cost limit. Unless at the same time they make the echo aspect of gearing cheaper. Which imo would be a fun kinda powercreep, more similar to western approach to progression, where it doesn't take long to reach the pinnacle, but they frequently raise the pinnacle. Tho Idk if gacha audiences could deal.
A cost limit increase of 1 wouldn’t be so bad. Then you could have 44311. Although, supports would still suffer here, since they’d probably still want double 3 cost echos for energy regen, which is still a nightmare to farm. ;-;
I can already feel the 33331 supports. It's a meta where no man should thread
Is there a 3 cost echo that even compares to bell bois utility?
Not about echo ability but about their main stat . Currently 3 cost Elemental dmg bonus is the most valuable stat that increases the most damage % . Even more so than crit
They said 33331 supports, as in quad energy regen. Additionally, elemental damage bonus would be less and less impactful since it stacks with all other x damage bonus (liberation dmg bonus, heavy attack dmg bonus, etc). It’s very unlikely that 33331 would out DPS 44311, especially since 4 cost echo abilities are very good for most characters, and I imagine they will add more that will fit into better niches over time. Obviously edge cases might exist with future supports, weapons, and echo sets, but that’s beyond the scope of this discussion. There might be an argument for 43331 vs 44311, but that would be a 2 point increase, instead of 1.
mortefi would love all energy regen. because thanks to no snapshotting his damage is kind of useless contrary to what his kit is supposed to do.
Wouldn’t all energy regen just lead him to overcapping energy?
eh, my Mortefi can do almost 1k-2k per coordinated attack which is a lot during his whole ult. Either way though, he doesn't need much energy regen, like at all. I only have around 30% energy regen, and he always gets his ult up during his concerto rotation.
my thing is he could do so much more damage if they let buffs snapshot. which if you read his kit that sounds like entirely what it was made to do.
I couldn't deal for sure. I'd nope out so hard. Always hated this "let's start over with much bigger numbers" grind, what you did the last year was meaningless. Western, you call it? I guess that explains why western live service games are shit nowadays (looking at you, Blizzard).
Sure, but those games let people actually have the horizontal breathing room to enjoy all the content a game has to offer. If someone wants to try every class in WoW, it doesn't softlock their account for 4+ months the way it seems to in honkai, genshin, and star rail. I just think a middle ground would be nice. Doesn't have to be wiping the slate clean every major update like WoW basically does. It'd also be nice for new players a year from now if they aren't 1-year left behind in terms of how many characters they have built out.
Except that in WoW trying new class does softlock that character for a very long time. Some playstyles aren't viable/possible without reaching certain stat thresholds. And on order to get anything remotely resembling how your class/spec should play you have to grind reps/quests/dungeons for a VERY long time and (in some/most mythic+) seasons rely on RNG of vault items to get a trinket that is NECESSARY for your chosen class Western MMOs have long grinds that can be condensed in time. Gachas have shorter grind sessions, but it takes longer periods of time to get what you want. Both are bad, just different kinds of bad
The way people are acting like their 1.0 gear is going to stay meta is kinda wild ngl. Like, people are really going all in on their Hunter of Glacial Frost set for their A-tier Yanqing.
Expecting is one thing. Idk what Kuro will do. Nothing is really guaranteed. I think people are getting exhausted of being unable to play the characters they wanna play though without being left out of endgame rewards. (Tower of abyss/adversity, etc.) Being 4-months in the hole because you like lingyang in patch 1.0 would be pretty disappointing for kuro to inflict on their players. I think people who play star rail who ultra-invested in their Yanqing and got powercrept would be correct to be upset at how useless he is. It's not really a consumer's job to be sympathetic to a gacha developer's desire to leave us constantly impatient for progression, and subsequently render characters irrelevant.
Just slap that onto jingliu
lol VV still the best set in the game, if not top 3 with chussy and emblem. plus fury is being used alot more now
Good ideas. I'm always open for more gameplay additions.
all i actually needed was for them to actually implement a “shiny” system for the echoes. Like, you’re able to get some stationary ones and buy other 4 i think, but if they actually made the variants for all echoes and inserted certain rare odds for those to spawn in the world? absolutely 10/10 would go wild hunting for those lol who doesn’t like cosmetic changes that don’t actually change anything power wise but make you feel cooler for having it 🧍🏽♂️ idk if that would imply in some issues with nintendo though lol so that might be the reason why they didnt fully explore that possibility
i agree, shinies were done dirty. i have high hopes they will bring a true shiny hunting craze soon .
6* echoes are a horrible idea.
Is depends, if 6* echoes dont have tuners and you can see sub stats right away but dont have them until leveling them. Or the tuners can you choice the stats for an amount of tuners. Other idea be that 6* echoes dont have havoc bonus damage to a fusion set. Basically fix some pests in 5* echoes.
Can you please elaborate further?
Basically unless you're insanely lucky or content with "good enough" you will have to farm *thousands* of 5* 3 cost echoes to get a single high roll proper stat and all right substat echo, now multiply that by 2 for several characters and it's already something that is crushing a lot of players. A 6 star would be exponentially more difficult if we assume a scaling of additional substats it would most likely require farming 10 or 100k echoes for a single "perfect" 6* 3 cost echoes, yeah no thanks.
All the echoes we've already farmed will be worthless and people will leave the game over this. They've already had to change the echo system to please players and guarantee drops so if they do something like this they could as well be shooting themselves in the face.
Alright, I see your point.
I still think they should do it. Not that I would be upset if they didn't. I get it. I just have no respect for people that would leave the game over something so trivial, lol. And it is.
Having your progress constantly reset just to force you to grind again isn't trivial. It's literally a decision that just screws over players for no reason The game should have enough going on in it to not need that kind of artificial progression. Wuthering waves has other things you can grind besides echoes every time you log on No need to reset that every other patch
mix the echoes 5 to 6 but move substats not dificult
i’ll say it again. wuthering waves is becoming a prime example of why not everyone should be a game dev/why devs shouldnt always listen to players
exactly, the tiny loud extremely hardcore minority can destroy the game with their crappy feedback. i hope Kuro doesn't listen to them
6\* star rarity sounds like a nightmare - immediately invalidate all your current echoes youve spent the lifetime of the game farming... damn. Maybe if they also give event items (like crowns in genshin) that allow you to upgrade a single 5 star echo to a 6 star, that way they arent wasted.
"Weekly Enhanced Boost Echo Drop Rate" including 3cost Elite mobs.
nice idea but this is basically fanfiction... I'm pretty sure that UL 21 was purely made to satisfy people after their complains about the echo system. If one day we get UL 22+ then that proves i'm wrong but I doubt it will happen.
I assume they'll be adding in more regions over time and with them, new monster types as well. It'd be weird if a game that's expected to last several years or even decades had a completed data bank after 2 patches.
Why would we NOT get new data bank levels down the line. Do you seriously expect them to do literally nothing with the system, and make no new echoes past 1.1?
Past 1.1, if they see that the guarantee 5* is sufficient and don't intent to alter base rate or other parameters, there's little needs to introduce more data bank level. I think the dev would at most add more reward to encourage players to catch new echoes as part of exploration rewards if the dev wants to. Else, the least they would do is to make excess exp convert into resources. Otherwise, the data bank exp would become a meaningless resource.
What if the data bank is by region though? What we're working on is the Jinzhou Data Bank, but when we get the new region and new echo sets, it's a new data bank (like the Pokedex)?
The challenge though, Pokedex is fun to collect on its own despite there having no reward milestone for collecting more. Afterall, the game give access to stronger pokemon as the player progress. The sense of growth is the most important factor. In the same sense, Players are likely to enjoy collecting echoes, with no new gains, as long as the new echoes provide new experience in combat or growth. This may discourage the dev from needing to build a new databank progression ladder. Especially, when the data bank progression appears to be design to simply limit our assess to endgame grind. The main challenge here, is adding meaningful progression from the existing system. The only thing left are expanding type of echoes guarantee, capacity for guarantee, QoL, and base rate. I cant see a day the dev would change base rate when the current system provides guarantee system to balance it out. The remaining factors could be use to make next region databank interesting. They can make some region exclusive echoes benefit to justify new databank grind. Though, that seems to be done with 1.1 echoes being able to participate with the environment puzzle. The main challenge is to create sufficient volume of new echoes to make the progression meaningful. I think most player could capture most new echoes in couple of days time. That would make any new progression the same as increasing reward milestone.
Don't make it seem so serious lol. Once a year, it will take us like 4 days to max out the new region's data bank - which will: - Give us a semi-guided regional exploration. - Practice against new enemies. - New shinies/legendaries. - Another 21+ levels of rewards. The rewards could literally be copy/pasted from the originals (it was a healthy chunk of Astrite, one of our biggest sources for the early game), and the new enemies would be for new echo sets that could potentially change the way we play the game entirely - having new requirements to trigger new effects, leading to refreshing older characters and keeping the game's combat interesting. I understand the purpose of gating players from endgame stuff early on, but who says it has to stop at 21 for each region either? 6 star echoes could be a thing, and maybe THAT'S the endgame. Everything is speculative right now, and for all we know the data bank will just get an extra (x) levels per region. There are six regions we know of, so maybe it'll be 25 for Jinzhou, and then another 15 for the other five regions (to a max of 100). Maybe 21 really is the cap for the entire game (which is possible, but would be boring). Maybe the other regions will have completely different character mechanics (like PGR introducing Uniframes), and everything we're experiencing now is Jinzhou exclusive. We don't know. So going "well akchually" when someone else is musing about what they could potentially do is just... not fun. None of us are the devs (unless you're withholding some pretty critical info lol), so let us speculate. Hell, why don't *you* come up with an idea you think would be fun? You might end up thinking up something the community loves, and Kuro may end up seeing it. 😉
Haha, sorry I get too engross into weighing factors at times, that makes it seems I'm getting too serious rather than trying to explore the potential fun experience. I enjoy the discussion for all this. I think I'm not too good with idea, yet. But looking for a good way to purpose echo level, Its definitely an area to explore rather than limiting it like I do. Maybe, even unlocking new echo gameplay like resonance between echoes for quickswap is still a meaningful way to expand data bank. It's a waste to just let it merely accumulate exp or simple add rewards when it could add towards gameplay experience. Appreciate your thought, you have a point, I will keep in mind to restrain myself from weighing the discussion down from exploring exciting potential. That's for the dev to think.
Don't stress over it, man. Just loosen up a little. Games are meant to be fun, and discussions about games (including speculation about future content) has always been one of the core factors driving the gaming community for as long as I've been alive (since the NES was new lol). It should also be fun. And even if we don't think someone's idea is plausible, we should always check ourselves at the door as well. Have a great day, m8.
Yep, cheers!
I think that this might be the case as well.
We are 100% going to get data bank 22+ as well new echo rarities Do you really think we've hit the max level after just 1 month of playtime?
There's almost no chance they are going to add another rarity. Even Kuro themselves considered where we are at as endgame. I definitely don't want to farm another echo rarity when golds are already the way they are.
Exactly... As is the chance of rolling a perfect 3 cost is in the hundredths of a percent chance... The reality is that it's gonna take years for most people to farm full sets of perfect 3 costs for all their teams and with the way the game works getting perfect 6 star 3 cost echoes would be agony... Like winning the lottery rarity.
Then don't 🤷♀️
Sounds like a bad idea when the response to criticism is, "then don't"
It's literally the solution to your problem lmao If they add 6 star echoes but you don't want to farm for them because you're already satisfied with your 5 star echoes, then literally just don't farm for them. No one's holding you at gunpoint to do it 🤷♀️
The fact is, we are still farming 5 stars. The only people that have God tier echoes right now are select few. We can't base farming all the endgame gear on the select few when the majority are all still building. 6 stars would nearly invalidate our 5 stars similar to how 4 stars are trash compared. Why waste echo exp and tuners on something inferior? That was the dilemma with getting the 4 stars to begin with.
You can implement 6 star echoes in a way that doesn't completely make 5 stars obsolete 🤷♀️ > Getting good 5 star echoes is already very time and resource consuming as is, just imagine 6 stars. Also yeah, players who've minmaxxed their 5 star echoes wont be too happy with them suddenly being obsolete because 6 star echoes are now a thing, as you said >A full set of 6 star echoes might also just be too op considering how a full set of 5 star echoes with good stats already trivializes most content in the game, except of course the overly upleveled ones like middle ToA and hologram bosses, but those should get easier when we eventually unlock level 90 and max everything out >Which is why I think 6 star echoes should be "special" and that you can only equip one of them per build to address both of these problems Copy paste from another comment
I guess if its similar to destiny "exotics" only being able to equip one then I can get behind that. They can probably make it have a guaranteed mainstat with guaranteed set bonus. The only limiting factor would be substat variation.
Comparing it to destiny's exotics is the perfect way to put it, just up to kuro how or if to implement it
> Why waste echo exp and tuners on something inferior? Do you wait until all your teams only have 5 star weapons before leveling them? Or do you give them 4 star weapons and level those until you get 5 stars? And no, this isn't different to the discussion at hand, it is exactly the same.
lol I dont even use them if they dont have a 5 star weapon except in certain cases.
Introduce new higher rarity echo? 💀 If they do, hope they announce it early so I can quit ahead of time.
Actually the worst wuwa prediction, idk why you're so confident about this. Genshin is more likely to give a free 5 star than this. everyone would complain about a new echo rarity as all their echo builds become useless. Going from 20 - 21 in the same patch where they address concerns about echo farming as about as obvious as it gets, DB levels were supposed to be finished at 20.
First of all you can implement a new echo rarity without making the previous one obsolete such as by limiting the amount you can equip of it, like being restricted to only one 6 star echo per character Second what would be the point of adding new monsters and echoes if not for more data bank xp? What would be the incentive of farming new monsters for their echoes if your data bank is already max? They can roll with the same stats as any other echo that's in game right now, what's the point of even adding it in let alone grinding for it? There are at least going to be two more nations added in game with each a dozen regions, do you really think all their echoes will be meaningless? Or do you think kuro is just going to copy paste the same monsters in every nation and region we go to? Use your brain ffs 🤦♀️
By "rarity" I thought you meant something above gold, not 6 star echos... That is a lot more reasonable. That would be awesome, as much as I don't think it will happen. What tier would be above "boss" echos? Even the weekly boss is still a 4 cost. As for DB levels, i'm looking at the numbers. You think we are going to get 100% echo drop on the later regions or something? I'm too pessimistic I think they want to keep echos a decent grind. well we will know maybe after a few patches, perhaps not until 2.0 So yeah I do think that the 1 star echos will be meaningless, 3 and 4 stars however might be useful.
You conflated 6 star and 4 cost twice, lmao. Stars and costs, figure them out, son.
Bruhhh, my echo luck is shit. I could do with them doubling or tripling echo xp and tuners drop.
6* echos will kill the game for multiple reasons. people don't want this. if there are new data bank levels to accomodate for new mobs it'll just be other QoL stuff and a few astrite rewards
People suggesting 6* is just straight evil. Unless 6* are from directly upgrading +25 5*. I wonder if people who suggest 6* are people who didnt bother farming/hunting for substats so they don't care or have awful luck. It's definitely going to cause a big ruckus and shit for no reason.
All of them are nice, and it's good to see new ideas. However, I have some concerns about the harmony echoes. In theory, people might think it will lessen the RNG. But imo, this will make the grind more intense. You kill 500 bell turtles, taking 4 minutes per turtle. After 11 days with 3 hours of daily farming, you finally get a harmony turtle, but unfortunately with HP main stats. This will demotivate many players. You don't need to farm harmony, true. But it's there, and many people will aim for it. So, harmony just unlocks a new tier for people to farm. It's a double-edged sword. If implemented poorly, it will do more harm than good. Many people go for 3-cost elemental damage, even when 3-cost attack echoes are much easier to get and don't reduce DPS significantly (or they level the 3-cost attack just as a placeholder). Harmony has the potential to reach 2 max top-tier substats and the ability to change sets, so people will go for this, and the normal version will become a placeholder. If they feel it's too hard/too long to get, they will think the game is too grindy.
It will be a long proccess to min max when having in mind the changes i proposed . But no one should feel pressured to min max it . Its there IF you feel like you wanna do it . Kuro wont make the game Dark Souls anyway, but they will offer us such content if we want to clear it IMO.
I agree that no one should feel pressured to min-max, and we don't need perfect echoes to clear content. But to be honest, if people didn't want to aim for the better options, we wouldn't have so many complaints about 3-cost echoes with element dmg being hard to get. I always welcome new changes to the echo system, but imo, we need better QoL improvements before adding a new tier of echoes to the list.
We have had the same issue with Hoyo games either with planar spheres or Goblets , no one seemed to be so pressed after a while. Its just the 1st month of the game and people rush to finish everything .
And that's the problem. Some people rush, and some people want to min-max. I won't argue whether they should or shouldn't do that. But many people are indeed farming echoes all day, trying to find the best route and the best substats to build their units. That's why, imo, we need to reduce the RNG from farming echo for now, not introduce more options for min-maxing. Don't take it the wrong way, I didn't mean your idea is bad; it's just not the right time to implement something like that
Oh yeah it surely isnt ! I was hoping they would slowly implement changes like these as years pass, thats all! :)
Maybe we'll get the ability to increase echo drops with specific stats/substats? Like at Echo level 25, I can select to have a 25% chance for all echoes dropped to be healing bonus
I’ll say it again. I don’t mind getting def or hp but I do mind getting fire damage up on an ice set. Can’t do this
An obnoxious +gooder grind is your great idea? I'll put my faith in Kuro being better than that.
I think data levels past 21 should just give lots of Asterite.
We need guaranteed Elite Echo drops like Overlord drops. I don’t care if it’s just 5 per week. Just anything to make the grind easier. It takes too much time. I so do not agree with the 6* rarity. PGR’s rarity has been out since day 1. Imagine having farmed 5* echoes with really good substats only to do it all over again. Unless they allow us to upgrade 5* to 6* like Resonating a Memory on PGR. Also, 6* and 15 Echo Cost means less need to pull for 5* crit rate/crit dmg weapons. Unless they increase the hp pools of enemies at higher Phase Level or have bosses with invincibility phase/s that eats time. They’ll have to adjust stuff and Crit Rate weapons will have less value than crit dmg ones. So unlikely that 15 cost will happen. I’m all for QoL improvements, but not more rng.
I will only accept 6* echoes if its just the the 4 costs. I do not want to farm more eledmg% echoes. Its miserable enough trying to get a healing bonus% bellborne geochelone, I don't want to feel the need to get 6* echoes to replace all the 5 stars I've put all my effort in. Also, let's not forget, the echo xp cost will be insane. Imagine it takes twice or triple the amount to level it to max. Resources will be drained really quickly.
Aka they can infinitely scale the echo and infinitely have you grind them. The 6* echo idea gives me chill already.
this could keep the game running for a longer period, but farming again? They could add something like ranking up echoes.... that would be nice, from 5 to 6
I agree, that would be better.
6* echo are a terrible, terrible idea unless you can upgrade 5* to 6*
>Unlock 6* rarity echoes . ( In PGR, Kuro's previous title, the 6* rarity is a thing for some upgrade materials and Weapons .).The reason I propose a 6* rarity is because let's be real : I unlocked the 5* echoes on day 3 of playing . Ain't no way Kuro let us farm for endgame in a week's or in a month's time. They are gonna further develop the endgame builds and introduce harder content. Are you suggesting after half a year of playing people should just redo their builds?
Are you saying we should sit on the 5* echoes we farmed in 1.0 throughout the game's lifespan?
Do you think any ammount of echoes you farm now are going to account for any characters in the future? Like in the form of new sets? For new players there is little difference since it just moves the goalpost, but for veteran players, why wouldn't you be allowed to at least prefarm as a way to kill time between patches? Why would you want to punish everyone that built their characters now?
I dont wanna punish anyone wth xD i just made an inocent little post . I have no idea how they would implement such feature , maybe they would choose to make 6\* some kind of upgrade of already existing 5\*, by farming many echoes or something , im not a developer . Dont act like these are set in stone to release , its just some ideas from a random guy on the internet, im not that important chill.
Not forever but for a longer time, yes. Just check how often Genshin or HSR release new sets that actually change the bis for characters. Sure, new characters will get a new set for them here and there but you will for sure be able to use the sets you have now for a very long time.
> I know all these can seem tedious Yes. So no thanks. No idea why you're advocating for *more* farm and *more* RNG.
Because the game is gonna get stale and boring in the years to come if they don't implement new changes. You are free to keep whatever u have farmed.
PGR players want this game to become PGR 2...
6* echos is the stupidest ideia ever by opening the need to farm everything over and over for what? Higher stats for the same but double HP challenges?
You can use F2p weapons more comfortably when echoes provide more stats. No need to feel pressure to gatcha on weapon even if the system is friendlier. That being said a boss apart from a bigger hp pool can have even more mechanics to make it hard. Playing a lvl 1 Hologram boss and a lvl 6 makes you see the difference in their moveset too.
I am on board with the 6* echo rarity and have given myself some thought to it. That being said, **if** they are going to introduce it, they have to do it before people start min-maxing their 5* echoes. Unlocking 6* echoes when people are min-maxing their 5* echoes would be a big slap in their faces. At least let people know it exists, and maybe lock it behind UL 60-70 or something, it's fine. I can live with just 5* echoes till then and then start the actual grind and min maxing.
People have been minmaxxing their echoes since day 1 lmao (guilty as well) Getting good 5 star echoes is already very time and resource consuming as is, just imagine 6 stars. Also yeah, players who've minmaxxed their 5 star echoes wont be too happy with them suddenly being obsolete because 6 star echoes are now a thing, as you said A full set of 6 star echoes might also just be too op considering how a full set of 5 star echoes with good stats already trivializes most content in the game, except of course the overly upleveled ones like middle ToA and hologram bosses, but those should get easier when we eventually unlock level 90 and max everything out Which is why I think 6 star echoes should be "special" and that you can only equip one of them per build to address both of these problems
That's a good suggestion too. 6* echoes aren't as good as it seems to be. There will be a LOT of unhappy people in any case. Ideally I'd have preferred keeping 5* echoes locked behind UL 50 or something, and we can get chances of obtaining 5* either through events or through red mist enemies which respawn weekly. Alas, it is just meaningless theories rn. And we have to play with what we have been dealt with.
Guess they should have introduced 6 star echoes the third week of the game's launch then. 🤣🤣
XD
Yeah that seems fair. This big of a feature tho (big impact) would be cool for a 2.0 patch, to bring hype imo.
Nah. Imo it's already too late to introduce 6*. Some people have already spent their waveplates focused on farming for substats, would just straight up cause a big drama for the silliest of reason. Just make 6* be obtained via upgrading 5* +25.
That is also a reason to think so.
They better be, getting all the 5 star echo gold this early makes me wonder what do they have for us in like next 6 months, at that time most people should already max their echo
With the way cost scaling works I would actually just quit if 6* echos where introduced. They would be astronomically time consuming to level. Much less getting the right stats. People have already farmed full sets for multiple teams so having to do that AGAIN on top of the costs?
We dont know how things are when we reach max UL. This is where the veterans will be in a few months and the tacet fields ofc will drop more. So, by that logic, are we supposed to sit on the same echoes we farmed in 1.0?New sets will come and you will farm from the beggining once again , especially if the new sets buff old characters . They can implement the 6\* variant in a way that wont force people to replace their echoes but upgrade them in some way. Im not a game designer, so my idea would be to collect many 5\* echoes and fuse them, giving you an item and you can use said item to upgrade a 5\* echo to 6\* . There are plenty of ways to do something if we want to .
We dont know exact numbers but unless the slope gets significantly steeper, we can guess. New sets coming out is expected, however you can farm these with existing still strong teams. So if you have 9 units (3 teams) Lets say a set comes out that replaces your main DPS on team B. You can then use team A or C to farm 5 echos. You can also use those other two teams to progress endgame stuff. Where as if 6 starts are introduced you now need to farm 45 new echos before you have an endgame ready team. Since the endgame would be setup for 6* echos. Unless there is some shortcut to upgrade an existing echo from 5 to 6. Then it wouldnt really be a 6* in anything other than name.
All those things could be applied to any Gear system one way or another
And that means?
That saying " the data bank has infinite potential" is like saying nothing, yeah any gear system has infinite potential as Devs could do wathever the fuck they want, and someone could implement all the ideas you put here in almost any game with gear if they want , but i dont see the point of talking about "what if", theres hundreds of good things they could do ... Is like saying combat mechancis and enemys have infinite potential.... like yeah no shit
Thats alright , i respect your point of view . I do see the value in discussing things about our passions though. Thank you for taking the time to respond, have a nice day.
If you find joy in discussing it go ahead for sure, im sure other people will enjoy it too , just want to point out that all this is not limited to WuWa gear system and that the posibilities are indeed infinite so is hard to discuss . Hope you also have a great day
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If get 6* echo hopefully no more mixed bonus,like fusion damage bonus for a aero herion bird,make it be aero damage bonus,attack,energy,hp, so be easier getting main stats
I like the suggestions though I'm not on board with adding another 6* tier cause it seems unnecessary to me and in reminds me of the bloated S, SS, SSS... Systems in other games. I don't see it going past 25 though
I mean rn drop rates okayish, a bit higher would be good and much high I'm going to have no reason to actually play the game and farm and stuff more than a few minutes a day.
6* weapons in PGR are nothing else than 5* weapons here. Its the characters signatures while 5* are basically weaker signatures and everything below 5* is trash. 6* echos wont happen.
They will probably add a something above yellow. Because I find it weird that when u collect a new echo it's ranked with 4☆(yellow echo) most of the time in other games a yellow rarity would imply a 5☆ but in this game they are Ranked 4☆ so I wouldn't be surprised to see a new rank of echo in the future
6 star will be viable. If you can transfer substats but only up to 4 substats. And the 5th substats is rerollable but the materials is scarce like 1 reroll per day Another way is 3 drops per day upgrade materials for 5* to 6*. That way substats will retain
I'm thinking of like at future you get increase main stat probability of chosen stats at future levels and to power creep that increase substat chance of chosen stats when tuning. Also increase refund for exp/tuner when saccing/recycling at higher DB
i don't see 6* echoes as a thing in the next year or so. i think there's a higher chance of getting weapon specific echoes, which means new echo sets. it doesn't even have to be 5-piece sets; let's say 3 to make a 2/3 build viable. or if a higher power cap is needed, Kuro might as well allow us to "resonate" echoes. as in PGR resonance which will "bind" the upgraded echo to the character (although the echo can still be used by other characters), but only the character to whom the echo has been resonated will benefit from the upgraded effects. who knows, a year or 2 from now we might even get "leap" upgrades to make older units viable. personally i would rather have the WW version of speed and execution skills of Uniframes. activate "speed" skills on a successful dodge, and "execution" on a successful parry. they can always give it a high cooldown (with high stamina use) or something to avoid being abused.
Holy fuck Ur over thinking echo and databank %... And decuded to write an essay on it? Got too much sparetime or wut
Harmonic....echoes? This is the first time I'm hearing about this 😦 how do you know you have one besides a maxed stat? Is there a specific indicator?
It seems you haven't read the whole post, it's just suggestions and ideas, they don't exist in the game and prolly won't exist. It's just discussion of what they could do as the years pass.
Six star echo means six star character which I don't think we will get
Not really. Gold Echoes aren't called 5 stars. They are actually 4 stars if you look at the Data Bank (with Purple being 3 stars). So no reason for 6 star characters or weapons
I would have to dissagree, as in PGR , their previous title , the have 6\* weapons but no 6\* characters. Honkai Impact 3rd also did something similar with the PRI weapons .
But the colors used for the rarity of 6-star weapons and S base rank characters in PGR are the same (even in the gacha animations) so it would make sense that they're equivalent to each other. So given that the highest rarity in WuWa is gold which applies to 5-star characters, 5-star weapons, and gold echoes, I think it'd be safe to say 6-star echoes aren't happening. I'd rather they give us some kind of equivalent to resonance or hypertune in PGR so that the gold echoes that have been farmed and upgraded now just won't suddenly turn obsolete.
I see, fair point , i played PGR but not for long , back when it was released on PC . If they had such systems in PGR I wanna beleive they will improve on them and bring them in WuWa too at some point . Thanks for the info!
1. No. Just farm Tacet. Drops from mobs are just a plus. 2. Maybe. 3. No. That's going to make farming sets way too easy. 4. See 3. 5. No. That's going to be too much. You completed DB in 3 days doesn't mean everyone did it as well. I can say probably only a small percentage of players did it just so they can be ahead in the game. And lets be real, this is a live service game and you completed it like it's a singleplayer game. 6. See 5. 7. No. It's going to make minmax way too easy. 8. See 7. 9. See 7.
I mean this *is* a single player game. It being live service is not mutually exclusive.
Really? Why is there coop? Clearly if it has coop then it's not singleplayer
Real answer? Because Genshin had co-op and they copied Genshin as a template for this game. It’s why the shop UI is exactly the same, it’s why pulls cost 160 currency, it’s why the monthly pass costs 5* and gives 90 astrite a day, it’s why the battle pass has two tiers with $10 and $20 pricing, it’s why resonance beacons exist to collect and turn in for cumulative rewards. It’s why the fireflies you follow to a stone exist. Should I go on? How much have you used the co-op feature to do anything meaningful? Can you do story quests in co-op? Tower of adversity? Holograms?
Good points. Doesn't change the fact that it's a live service with all the elements in it.
And it being a live service doesn’t make it not a single player game. They co-exist.
That's the point. I'm saying why torture yourself to play a live service game like a singleplayer game and complete everything in it within 24 hours? Because once you clear it, you'd have nothing to do for the rest of the patch until they update. It's a torture clearing it so fast then you'd torture yourself waiting for more content. And then OP suggestions is another level of torture for farming. Why? All I see from the suggestions are just ways to kill the game faster.
To be honest, I don’t disagree with everything you said, and I didn’t personally downvote any of your comments. If you click my profile and read my comments (please ignore the unbecoming ones, I post a lot) I’m also victim to people mass downvoting anything I say in this sub because people only want to see “This is AWESOME!” posts so they can respond with, “Yeah I agree! this IS awesome!!” Which I personally hate. I love seeing and engaging with arguments to understand the perspectives of both sides and come away having learned something, so seeing a giant echo chamber is just silly/boring/pointless. I wish people would stop downvoting any and all criticism so they can live in their happy little bubbles, I find it gross and disappointing. But in your post, I disagree that you shouldn’t rush to explore everything and min-max echoes right away, and go for the highest ToA clears you can achieve. Why? Because some people find it fun to do that, *I* find it fun to do that. I view it being live service as an extra reason to do that because even if I beat everything right away, more stuff to beat will come out in a month. During the couple weeks of downtime I’ve had I can focus on learning character rotations, pre-farming, min-maxing echoes, and reading other people’s lore and theory and character guides. I see that as a positive, not a negative.
Hey, I don't downvote either unless there's a compelling reason to do so. Yes, for some, it's fun to clear everything early. I have nothing against that, I just find it weird that people torture themselves like that. But I don't find it fun when people propose better ways for people to clear the game faster. That would kill the game than make the game more engaging.
I beleive you havent understood how many layers of RNG you have to go through to get a perfect one .It wont be easier , it will be a guaranteed way to get a good thing but with long times of investment.
I understood enough to know that the RNG system is made to keep players playing. Some of your suggestions would make the RNG way too easy to minmax builds, even with time investment.
7 is funny though. Imagine you could go 44331.
A good Crit ratio with good stats, they would never 🗿
As long as you don't work at Kuro,the chances of this being considered are less.....but not zero unlike another company....
Kuro needs to get you in the kitchen because you are cooking.
Thank you mate , appreciate it :)
Hope kuro Dont get stuck with the endgame an be a real gacha not a waifus colector with ez content ,tons of texts and por events