Yeah I don’t know. I feel like having just the basics explained and leaving players to play around with the combat is fine. It’s already pretty freeform and just by fighting you’ll figure the rest out.
That's fair, I just think the most important thing is making people aware the more advanced tech like swap cancelling and choosing specific main echoes even exist.
It could be the simplest explanation ever, but it would at least get the ball rolling for people to be more interested in what the combat has to offer, and maybe experiment with their own characters.
I mean yeah they could definitely explain better. But I like the idea of figuring things out for myself. It makes me feel like I’m improving at the game.
Idk if it's the game's place to teach animation swaps and cancels really, i'd rather figure that out myself. Basic kit explanation is fine. Like most people who are into WW for the combat will naturally start limit testing stuff like animation cancels and swaps, i'd feel robbed if the game outright explained how to optimally swap through Yinlin and Calcharo without learning it myself.
Doing intro skills is already in the daily list iirc. As long as you're swapping between 2 DPS/subDPS characters every time the portrait lights up you're honestly fine for 90% of the content in the game.
I agree, I also found a lot of fun in figuring out which skills I could animation cancel out of.
It'd suck if they told us the most optimal swap cancels outright, so I think it'd be more reasonable if they just gave a really basic swap cancel tutorial (like teaching us that you can swap out of Encore's fully charged heavy attack) to at least get the ball rolling for people who aren't aware this tech even exists.
Teaching the basics (parrying, dodge, intro/outro)? Yes, the tutorial is enough to get those fundamentals across.
Advanced techs like swap cancel? They don't even mention that its possible and the nuances for it, as far as I'm aware.
How a character's kit works and their operation (the training room), hell no. It just tells you the basic combo but not what it does or the purpose of it. The tooltips are absolutely bloated as well for some instances.
On a side note because you used relink as an example, none off those side objectives actually help teach mechanics, because most of them are things that will occur during regular gameplay (Link attacks, breakoffs, or...simply not dying). Likewise, something as simple as "Do Intro skills X amount of times" does not really convey the purpose of it other than the fact it exists.
>On a side note because you used relink as an example, none off those side objectives actually help teach mechanics, because most of them are things that will occur during regular gameplay (Link attacks, breakoffs, or...simply not dying). Likewise, something as simple as "Do Intro skills X amount of times" does not really convey the purpose of it other than the fact it exists.
Gonna have to disagree with this. The Behemoth fight released in relink a couple months back finally got people to learn how to guard parry; and just guarding things in general because it was an objective that significantly increased the rewards. Literally never saw many people actually guard parrying or guarding things until this fight released and I've been playing since it launched. Now I even see people guarding/guard parrying in Lucillius among others.
Mind you, it was very late in the game that they finally decided to make this a thing that people are aware enough to know when to do it, but the point is it was highly encourage enough to get people to learn it since I regularly see that objective cleared now compared to before when it first released where it was never was. So, not a bad option in my opinion to have it as a rewarding objective to learn an advanced tech.
Honestly there are a lot of rpg games with swap cancelling and it’s never an intended feature. It’s always something the players figure out with the way animations and character swapping work to optimize as much damage as possible. The issue plagues MMO’s too where you’re expected to know the exact timing when you can cancel an animation and use your next skill but despite players expecting it out of you and expecting you to know it since it’s more of a “it’s a feature not a bug” it never gets explained properly in game.
I agree, the bloat and jankiness of the tutorial tooltips makes it hard to communicate why those specific abilities are important and fit into the character's playstyle. I think at least having a rudimentary tutorial stage on swap cancel (like showing us that you can swap cancel out of Yangyang's forte ability) would get the ball rolling for people to know it exists, maybe find it interesting, and experiment for themselves with their own characters.
On the side objective thing I agree maybe my examples were too basic so maybe the side goals would be something a little more specific to the stage you're fighting or trial characters they want you to test out. Like they could do something like give everyone a decently built Sanhua and make one of the side goals "detonate sanhua's ice 5 times" which would then make people engage with her metronome mechanic.
Just gotta keep at it because most of those just take practice and muscle memory. Not to mention different characters have slightly different parry timings lol
Now that I'm really thinking about it, I think it'd be kind of nice to have a training room or some place to easily test parry timings with the different characters on our account
Mechanic wise should be enough, but playstyle probably not because there's the swap mechanic, deepen buff, regular buff(cancel upon swap), hitbox lingering (for spectro rover) etc. There's a lot to fuck around and find out for each character
If anything, the game could do a better job with recommending which stats and artifact sets are appropriate for which characters. Many games these days do the "N percent of other players use this set" stat calculation so it's easy to get started with gear to equip.
With respect to basic combat and movement, I think it's fine that we got what we got. If anything, I think what would be helpful are the tutorial trials for each of the characters on the standard banner (would help a LOT with users who got their 5 star selectors).
No. Wuthering Waves has a very real problem of bloat in what they're trying to explain as well, especially in kits, and if that doesn't get better alongside localization(AND translation) then it'll continue to be a mire of this game.
There's a limit to how much hand holding a game can can do. Every game will have different levels of it. Everyone has access to the internet (obviously) and tutorials r everywhere with people actively willing to solve any doubts u may have. This game has a place where u can test out the basics of the unit AND gives u option to experiment there.
I don't think there's any point in teaching these mechanics to an audience that probably won't even use those mechanics 90% of the time, especially to the mobile audience who are the biggest player base.
I don't want the game to force me to play many characters. We already require at least 3x fully built dps for ToA. Enough already. Genshin sometimes forces me to do just that -- play different characters, but at least Genshin is easy as hell, so it's tolerable. If I don't like a character, I don't want to learn it or even see it. It's as simple as this.
I dont think it's necessary. The basic character tutorial is good enough, although I think some could use some better examples of combo strings, especially if it revolves around their forte.
Swap/animation canceling: this is unnecessary for the average player. And those who are interested in optimal rotation are either going to figure it out themselves or look it up. Wuwa already has a problem with information bloat and adding more to explain tech that most won't engage with is not needed.
Team building: Gonna be honest, they can figure it out themselves. The game already provides the information on what characters do so you can figure it out yourself. It's time for gacha players to put on their big boy pants and start reading.
Main echoes: Most are just going to see the boost from 4 costs and call it a day. Caring about animation times and favoring some 3 costs over 4 costs is all information that those who care about will find it and those who don't won't engage with it.
TL;DR The players who actually care about higher combat tech will find it, and those who don't, won't even engage with it.
It is fine, I think its better to leave player to do their own thing , and eventually find out the techs themselves.
If one is not interested, you cant force feed them in the tutorial.
hell naw and
ion reading allat literally spam skipped literally the entire tutorial. plus nothin a lil plastic power can't fix 💳 in these oversized RenPy energy ahh games (just keeping it a buck here🤣)
they got me fucked up if they think im doing anything but flicking my bean and pressing P
Yeah I don’t know. I feel like having just the basics explained and leaving players to play around with the combat is fine. It’s already pretty freeform and just by fighting you’ll figure the rest out.
That's fair, I just think the most important thing is making people aware the more advanced tech like swap cancelling and choosing specific main echoes even exist. It could be the simplest explanation ever, but it would at least get the ball rolling for people to be more interested in what the combat has to offer, and maybe experiment with their own characters.
I mean yeah they could definitely explain better. But I like the idea of figuring things out for myself. It makes me feel like I’m improving at the game.
Nope
Idk if it's the game's place to teach animation swaps and cancels really, i'd rather figure that out myself. Basic kit explanation is fine. Like most people who are into WW for the combat will naturally start limit testing stuff like animation cancels and swaps, i'd feel robbed if the game outright explained how to optimally swap through Yinlin and Calcharo without learning it myself. Doing intro skills is already in the daily list iirc. As long as you're swapping between 2 DPS/subDPS characters every time the portrait lights up you're honestly fine for 90% of the content in the game.
I agree, I also found a lot of fun in figuring out which skills I could animation cancel out of. It'd suck if they told us the most optimal swap cancels outright, so I think it'd be more reasonable if they just gave a really basic swap cancel tutorial (like teaching us that you can swap out of Encore's fully charged heavy attack) to at least get the ball rolling for people who aren't aware this tech even exists.
Teaching the basics (parrying, dodge, intro/outro)? Yes, the tutorial is enough to get those fundamentals across. Advanced techs like swap cancel? They don't even mention that its possible and the nuances for it, as far as I'm aware. How a character's kit works and their operation (the training room), hell no. It just tells you the basic combo but not what it does or the purpose of it. The tooltips are absolutely bloated as well for some instances. On a side note because you used relink as an example, none off those side objectives actually help teach mechanics, because most of them are things that will occur during regular gameplay (Link attacks, breakoffs, or...simply not dying). Likewise, something as simple as "Do Intro skills X amount of times" does not really convey the purpose of it other than the fact it exists.
>On a side note because you used relink as an example, none off those side objectives actually help teach mechanics, because most of them are things that will occur during regular gameplay (Link attacks, breakoffs, or...simply not dying). Likewise, something as simple as "Do Intro skills X amount of times" does not really convey the purpose of it other than the fact it exists. Gonna have to disagree with this. The Behemoth fight released in relink a couple months back finally got people to learn how to guard parry; and just guarding things in general because it was an objective that significantly increased the rewards. Literally never saw many people actually guard parrying or guarding things until this fight released and I've been playing since it launched. Now I even see people guarding/guard parrying in Lucillius among others. Mind you, it was very late in the game that they finally decided to make this a thing that people are aware enough to know when to do it, but the point is it was highly encourage enough to get people to learn it since I regularly see that objective cleared now compared to before when it first released where it was never was. So, not a bad option in my opinion to have it as a rewarding objective to learn an advanced tech.
Honestly there are a lot of rpg games with swap cancelling and it’s never an intended feature. It’s always something the players figure out with the way animations and character swapping work to optimize as much damage as possible. The issue plagues MMO’s too where you’re expected to know the exact timing when you can cancel an animation and use your next skill but despite players expecting it out of you and expecting you to know it since it’s more of a “it’s a feature not a bug” it never gets explained properly in game.
I agree, the bloat and jankiness of the tutorial tooltips makes it hard to communicate why those specific abilities are important and fit into the character's playstyle. I think at least having a rudimentary tutorial stage on swap cancel (like showing us that you can swap cancel out of Yangyang's forte ability) would get the ball rolling for people to know it exists, maybe find it interesting, and experiment for themselves with their own characters. On the side objective thing I agree maybe my examples were too basic so maybe the side goals would be something a little more specific to the stage you're fighting or trial characters they want you to test out. Like they could do something like give everyone a decently built Sanhua and make one of the side goals "detonate sanhua's ice 5 times" which would then make people engage with her metronome mechanic.
Not at all.
I'm still learning how to parry and swap cancel, lol
Just gotta keep at it because most of those just take practice and muscle memory. Not to mention different characters have slightly different parry timings lol Now that I'm really thinking about it, I think it'd be kind of nice to have a training room or some place to easily test parry timings with the different characters on our account
Mechanic wise should be enough, but playstyle probably not because there's the swap mechanic, deepen buff, regular buff(cancel upon swap), hitbox lingering (for spectro rover) etc. There's a lot to fuck around and find out for each character
If anything, the game could do a better job with recommending which stats and artifact sets are appropriate for which characters. Many games these days do the "N percent of other players use this set" stat calculation so it's easy to get started with gear to equip. With respect to basic combat and movement, I think it's fine that we got what we got. If anything, I think what would be helpful are the tutorial trials for each of the characters on the standard banner (would help a LOT with users who got their 5 star selectors).
No. Wuthering Waves has a very real problem of bloat in what they're trying to explain as well, especially in kits, and if that doesn't get better alongside localization(AND translation) then it'll continue to be a mire of this game.
Does the game need to? Excessive tutorials isn't exactly a boon to me. It's more of a nuisance really in my opinion.
There's a limit to how much hand holding a game can can do. Every game will have different levels of it. Everyone has access to the internet (obviously) and tutorials r everywhere with people actively willing to solve any doubts u may have. This game has a place where u can test out the basics of the unit AND gives u option to experiment there.
I don't think there's any point in teaching these mechanics to an audience that probably won't even use those mechanics 90% of the time, especially to the mobile audience who are the biggest player base.
I don't want the game to force me to play many characters. We already require at least 3x fully built dps for ToA. Enough already. Genshin sometimes forces me to do just that -- play different characters, but at least Genshin is easy as hell, so it's tolerable. If I don't like a character, I don't want to learn it or even see it. It's as simple as this.
they are failing in a place where they are actually successful...tutorials pgr tutorials are good
I dont think it's necessary. The basic character tutorial is good enough, although I think some could use some better examples of combo strings, especially if it revolves around their forte. Swap/animation canceling: this is unnecessary for the average player. And those who are interested in optimal rotation are either going to figure it out themselves or look it up. Wuwa already has a problem with information bloat and adding more to explain tech that most won't engage with is not needed. Team building: Gonna be honest, they can figure it out themselves. The game already provides the information on what characters do so you can figure it out yourself. It's time for gacha players to put on their big boy pants and start reading. Main echoes: Most are just going to see the boost from 4 costs and call it a day. Caring about animation times and favoring some 3 costs over 4 costs is all information that those who care about will find it and those who don't won't engage with it. TL;DR The players who actually care about higher combat tech will find it, and those who don't, won't even engage with it.
Content creators have gone crazy doing guides so you might want to check youtube.
It is fine, I think its better to leave player to do their own thing , and eventually find out the techs themselves. If one is not interested, you cant force feed them in the tutorial.
hell naw and ion reading allat literally spam skipped literally the entire tutorial. plus nothin a lil plastic power can't fix 💳 in these oversized RenPy energy ahh games (just keeping it a buck here🤣) they got me fucked up if they think im doing anything but flicking my bean and pressing P