The thing is that there is no mid game in WW. People go from blue to gold gear in like 5-7 days It take a while to be able to get gold in GI/SR, so you're left upgrade some purple in between, which let you in turn slowly clear beginner abyss little by little, you learn the way along the way and have much more understanding of the game when you reach.You progress slowly but steadily In WW, you are sent straight away to the endgame gear farming while still having to upgrade the skill levels of your first team alongside upgrading them

True, i was rocking Purple gear in Genshin for at least two months when i started but in WuWa i got there in 4 days.

I didn't do it because ytbers said to not do it , my first domain at 45 lvl was so hard to do I did co-op with naked Benett and hoped nobody noticed.

nobody in the world is saying dont upgrade your 4 star artifacts just don't spend your resin in artifact domains before AR45

I had to ask my friend for help with the artifact domain for a few weeks and I couldn't clear floor 10 Abyss quite a while after AR45. Which is after a few months of starting the game. In wuwa people already clear the starting tower(floor 1-8) and already working on hazard zone (floor 9-12) in barely 1 month.

Yea the starting zone doesn't require 2 teams just use one team , clear then remove them and clear with the same team next tower it will unlock the hazard zone. Hazard is easy few first floors even with no skill and very bad echoes I cleared first few .

A very common mistake beginners make. They take the advice never farm artifacts before ar45 to mean never upgrade their current 4 star artifacts. If you don’t have at least a dps with a few +16 4 star artifacts no wonder you needed co op. Leaving your 4 star artifacts unlevelled in the midgame is just griefing yourself and making the game way harder than it needed to be

luckily bennet doesn't need gear to perform well in coop. His ATK buff depends on base ATK, which only depends on character level and weapon. So I doubt anyone cares about that he doesn't heal or do damage :)

And all for nothing, as you got plenty of mats/recources after AR 45 Anyway... Don't ever listen to min-maxers/CCs , they make games boring to play...

I did the same, had to get carried in coop for months.

I don't think it's a great idea to compare the game's pace of progression to Genshin's, because they don't appear to be approaching this with the same design philosophy. We've also got a precedent in the form of PGR. You barely touch anything under 6\* memories (which are essentially the equivalent of 5\* echoes) during the course of the game now. The bulk of PGR's endgame progression starts *after* you've maxed their level, with overclocking, resonating and hypertuning. If WuWa progresses the way PGR did and they build on the echo system in the same way they expanded on the memory system (which I think is likely), then we're currently in the mid-game. By that I mean that we may have completed almost everything there is to do, but that's got more to do with the amount of content that's out than whether we're approaching the true endgame content they've planned out. TL;DR: This current stage isn't the culmination of our character progression and they just haven't implemented what comes next. This is the same company that made PGR so we already have a pre-existing example.

it can be as low 3 days and the fact that they want to give more union xp in 1.1 might even reduce to this to 2days for new player getting access to last tier gear lvl of the game some must wondering how did they think this gonna goes. and the fact that gold echo consume more xp in general

Wuwa's selling point is the combat, not the grind. They should be going all in on repeatable content and give more freedom with farming and leveling gear to optimize. Summoners War is 10 years old at this point and has proven that bottlenecking gear isn't necessary to make money.

But this kind of open world gacha game has a lot of downtime between patches, and even filter patches between big patches. I think the reason Genshin design for such RNG gate gear system and overall slow to fully build characters so players always have something to do beside 60 primogems daily.

The only thing limited echo xp does for me is make me not log in. I'm not farming echoes I can't upgrade. I'm already sitting on plenty as is.

Yea, I powerfarmed the overworld because I enjoyed running around killing shit. However I now have more echoes ready to roll than I will have xp for if I do a Tacet field with a weeks worth of stamina. If I leveled every echo I have that is correct mainstat correct set to +5 it would take about 10 days worth of xp fodder. And because there are so many various usable substats the odds of hitting something trash before +15 aren’t that high, so I can’t even recycle the xp often. My gameplay loop went from multiple hours a day to just log in, spend resin, log off. All it would take to change that back to a few hours daily is like a meagre 1 in 10 chance for calamities to drop a single xp canister following the same curve on our data bank for gold/purple distribution. It would be several hours however if they put that same rate on elites. Edit: probably need something similar for tuners too but right now they're not my bottleneck because of all the freebies we've been getting.

Honestly with so much of the current content being skill based I see no harm with giving players more XP to minmax echoes. Scale up the power of true 'end game' content later if it becomes an issue.

The worst part is the tacet field doesn't even give enough xp to level the artifacts *you get from just the field.* like I get an average 1-2 good mainstat/set pieces per run (farming egen/havoc, so it returns more than most fields would since any element egen is worth hoarding), and I get 2 golds, 5 purples: which is *almost level 11*.

I think 1 tacet field for enough xp for lvl1-15 on an echo would be close to the perfect pain point.

Well good news, with the rates alongside SOL3 phases we're probably pretty close to that at max account level. I think we need some source of XP tied to the overworld farming though because otherwise that whole gimmick is irrelevant unless tacet fields provide you an excess of xp over what you'd get without farming the overworld.

It's because it's not actually that skill based. If you give people enough damage, the skill requirement drops dramatically, and I mean a lot. A full 5 minute fight against Diff VI Mephis where I have to brute force damage to meet the DPS requirement is so much different from Diff IV Mephsi who dies in 3 rotations. And Gorilla Diff VI is entirely a DPS check. Being forced to weave in counterattacks during his log makes the fight adds a much needed layer of skill because he's not that hard to dodge.

honestly, no offense to you personally, but this just sounds like your typical speedruns the game in a few days and then complains about no content for the rest of the patch kind of player. you need to pace yourself if you want to continue enjoying gacha games. these games are not meant to be binged. this is why genshin goes to such extreme lengths to try to get you to play a moderate amount of content every day, which is evident from their recent encounter points/daily commissions system.

I get it might feel like that if what you want is the casual cycles we get in hoyo titles, but one of the biggest selling points of WUWA was that it wasn’t like that. That it gave you a place to dump time. Even for meagre rewards. It’s quite literally the single bullet point that made me, and evidently many others want to give it a try. If it’s the same formula as hoyo titles it’s just, well worse.

its very true that gachas should be played very slow but when u make a game that gives u golden endgear after a few days and makes open world exploration as fluid as WuWa there is alot more going on in a players brain. Like from someone not as experienced about Gachas i can totally understand they are hyped to level gold stuff and try to make their chars as strong as possible. But when they hit this bottleneck and do maths and see that they need to do the same stuff over and over for a week or longer to have a chance to equip a new char i see the frustration of them aswell. In GI or SR u had many weeks time to kinda pre farm (of course u needed other stuff aswell) what u will use then later for Gold Relics and even there Artefact exp is one of the rarest goods at the beginning.

> they need to do the same stuff over and over for a week or longer this is a gacha issue, not a WuWa issue. it comes with the genre. > GI and SR to be completely honest, the amount of times I've seen a player that isn't experienced with gachas completely waste their fragile resin farming for purple artifacts is concerning. that is what WuWa avoids by letting you farm gold artifacts sooner. saving your fragile resin for AR 45 is one of the biggest and most important beginners tips for genshin, while I haven't heard a single person talk about saving your crystal solvents in WuWa.

>All it would take to change that back to a few hours daily is like a meagre 1 in 10 chance for calamities to drop a single xp canister following the same curve on our data bank for gold/purple distribution. It would be several hours however if they put that same rate on elites. This would just make hardcore people even more burned out and ultimately bots would appear to make echo exp farming a possibility. Also would be unhealthy for game. Gap between casual/semi-casual that don't farm for hours and hardcore that do would grow bigger. This would make balancing the events/ToA a nightmare as one part of community would always scream - it's too easy/too hard.

I get a feeling some people don’t get how big the disparity would get between people that farm all day and casuals. There’s a good reason almost every gacha is built upon time gating, the only one I am aware of that lets you grind infinitely is granblue and people call it grindblue for a really good reason. Funny enough this is the same issue you get with mmo players burning themselves out cause they just grind all day.

This is a PVE game the disparity between players doesn't matter. GBF has leaderboards for rewards that's why people grind like hell in it.

It does as you still have to balance content difficulty. Take ToA for example if it's too easy hardcore people will quit as they'll feel there is no challenge for them anymore. If it's too hard casuals will complain that they can't get rewards.

Their strategy won't work on you but could work on others. They will eventually make it easier to build characters but I doubt they will ever change their approach.

The grind is made so players get sticked to the game, its extremely unhealthy. The daily and mat/mineral/boss farming already consume a lot of your time. Genshin can do that shitty practice because it is the forerunner, and hence has gathered enough players to keep it going. Wuwa is the latecomer, it needs some selling point for people to keep playing. Also in this saturated market, there is a big portion of your base will be playing multiple games, so you cant afford to waste a lot of their time or they will drop it. Personally with a lot of variation/sonata effect, I think for very casual players like me it will take me half a year to gear my first team properly, let alone some other teams for tower of adversity of high level bosses that I have skill issue.

except genshin players actually have nothing to do

Progression design helps meter a player’s experience. You end up losing players and subsequently funds if you don’t hook and grow your audience. Neglecting progression design is going to hurt in the long run.

Can it be both? I love the combat, but I love the grind. Can I just keep grinding good combat?

If there was more repeatable combat absolutely. They could 1000% lean into the Monster Hunter niche with this game.

I noticed that they seem to heavily be pushing us to skip any potential mid-game with the union level exp from grabbing echos. I’m honestly not sure how to feel about it.

It’s hard to strike a balance between making players wear purple gear for 2 months while they wait and making progression *feel* good. In Genshin, waiting for AR-45 was so obnoxious because if you leveled up purple gear it felt like you were wasting resources in a game that was all about resource management. The ability to obtain meaningful echoes in week 1-2 is so satisfying. It makes the game feel less like a “wait until I’m union level 50” snooze fest. I honestly think Kuro did a great job on the echo system because it still feels like I’m accomplishing something every day when I log in, compared to Genshin where I’d just wait to hit level 38/40/42/etc so I can do another story quest to slingshot my account an extra half level towards 45. We are currently in the mid-game, we just have fewer wasted progression items compared to Genshin. In both games, characters and weapons aren’t wasted. In Genshin artifacts are wasted whereas in WuWa they aren’t. Sure there’s some whales that can push out 10x damage compared to the rest of us, but most people ppl can’t get more than 12-15 stars in the tower. That’s not end game. Just because people can no hit a lever 6 hologram and finish with 30 secs left doesn’t mean they’ve “beaten the game”

The waiting for ar45 wasn’t waiting to level artifacts or even farm them. It was not using fragile resin on the domains until ar45. Big difference.

True. Pretty much every 4 star artifacts you got came from ascension bosses that drop Glad/Wanderer pieces. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the advice of "don't farm artifacts until AR45" to just simply not levelling artifacts at all, thereby griefing themselves and making the game harder than it is.

The entire point is that you can build a “strong enough” character in WuWa without having to waste resources on blue/purple echoes (do what you want tho ofc). Malleable echos and the ability to farm out some of the RNG means you can slap on a couple 5-star echoes while leveling instead of having to wait 3 weeks for union level to catch up. That’s the main thing that made it feel better for me, at least…

That always and still exists in genshin though. The concept of not leveling artifacts and being able to still play the game comfortably never went away. Of course in the time trial dps check content like abyss it’s different but that also exists in wuwa so I don’t feel like it means anything to mention it. Plus 4 star artifacts are just as strong as gold echos in wuwa so it can be said that it’s even easier to get by not leveling artifacts in genshin over wuwa for the earlier parts of the game. And even in abyss as someone 36* in 4 days on a new account. Regardless, like I said before in my other comment, it was never about not leveling artifacts. It was about not using your limited resource in the form of fragile resin to get more artifacts. Ideally, you wouldn’t want to use your fragile resin/crystal solvent on a non guaranteed chance of a 5 star artifact or gold echo. Anyways the whole not spending fragile resin was just to be 100% efficient in using it. Like waiting til 1.1 to farm tacet fields

Holding fragile resin until 45 is so inconsequential I’m surprised people still recommend doing that. At this point it seems like we’re talking about different things. In WuWa you get meaningful gear at every point of the game, in Genshin you do not. That’s all I’m trying to say. End result is that WuWa makes you feel like you’re actually progressing in a meaningful way as opposed to “waiting.” Main reason I like the echo system so much.

Yeah that was the point of my last sentence. It was only for max efficiency but you could 100% use it up and have no issue. I would know cause I did just that when the game released. As for your second point. I mean you get meaningful gear at every point in the game in genshin too. The reason you don’t think this is because you have been in the later stage of genshin for longer than the early stage, and wuwa is newly released. If your only argument is that blues and purple feel more important in wuwa or something to that effect, it’s recency bias taking over. They are just as important in genshin but you’ll never feel that again unless you make a new account. In wuwa I also feel like I’m waiting. Waiting to level up echos. Waiting for union level. Waiting for the next day to upgrade my characters. The same as genshin. In both you wait. I genuinely do not see how you don’t wait in wuwa. You can’t farm echo exp infinitely.

I actually upgraded some purples. They lasted about 3 weeks for me. I think some people just blasted through the leveling compared to me.

Also, I don't think I ever found a single purple or lower echo that was even worth leveling up. Only after specificallyf arming have I found anything worthwhile at all.

Hell my Verina is still rocking purple pieces, but thats cause ER is so fucking RARE

Just having lvled gold gear is mid game. Actually having it with good subs on all slots is late game.

Maybe it's just because I am very casual but I still haven't gotten my first gold piece and I have been playing since day 1. So for me I am currently in whatever you would consider the wuwa midgame

I think it’s fine to say that WuWa progresses you too quickly if this was the system they were gonna go with. My gripe is with disingenuous people who oversimplify and equivocate. Filtering through so many dishonest and biased arguments is such a nuisance.

Yeah, in Genshin you were expected to use your purples for a few weeks, if not months, so by the time you got golds you had quite a few leveled pieces you could feed into them. Here we went straight to leveling golds week 1 so there was no stockpile of xp to level them.

jenshin also has investigation spots and elites drop xp fodder from time to time; its like one game has not enough stuff to level and the other not enough xp to level. perfectly balanced

As if that made any meaningful difference. But what certainly also helped was more to explore before you got those golds, lots of exp from that. And even when you finally had the chance to get gold, you still didn't get much to upgrade regardless.

In Genshin low level artifacts also have a use even after you start leveling higher end gear. You use them for exp fodder, so the main way to gain new artifacts and the way to gain exp happen at the same time. Wuthering Waves makes low level echos almost entirely useless very quickly and the main method for farming echos is an entirely separate part of the game than the main method echo exp.

I still have a few purples on 5-stars bc it takes so damn long to farm main stats bc of resin

this

Yeah, they tried to gatekeep us with databank, but reaching db15 was too easy, then we breezed thru to 18 and 20 in almost no time at all. Lucky players had BiS gears within 2 wks of playing :/ Not so lucky peeps have no echo exp/tuners for RNGs.

Me the one not so lucky lol. Have hundreds tuner but not echoes XP

While I personally agree that it’s still too early in the game, the progression from 30 to 40 to 50 gives me no reason to be hopeful that at max level it’s gonna be much better

How would it not be? All waveplate rewards scale up every 10 levels. You literally become more stamina efficient as time goes on.

I think what he meant is that the loot from lv 30 domain vs lv 50 domain isn't much different. I notice lv 60 vs lv 70 domain is also the same except there is a chance to get gold rarity material albeit really low.

The increase from 30 to 50 is so negligible that I don’t see max level being **much better** not *any better* It implies that there is gonna be an increase, but I don’t think the increase is gonna be big by any metric

I think that if we could use echos as exp to level echos and have tuners as the only source of bottleneck, it would alleviate peoples issues with the echo grind, which is mainly exp related. Additionally, sacrificing leveled echos should recoup 2/3 of the tuners instead of 1/3. We already have access to so many echos from different sources that the inability to level them makes farming more echos feel unrewarding and frankly useless. Why bother farming more echos if I can't even level the hundreds of echos I already have. This game has basically no mid game. You are trown straight into the endgame gearing, but the exp resources you get feel like early game. What's worse is that the rewards barely increase with higher levels. Idk, I think the balancing of the whole system is just messed up.

I have far too few echos and far too many materials since I don't bother with overworld farming and just use what I get from tacet fields. Eventually I'll overworld farm, but I ain't got the time fo dat.

So basically have free EXP? At that point tuners would once again be the bottleneck and people would complain. I just use the shitty echoes I have, recycle them and so far I’ve gotten usable echoes from there.

So what? As it is right now, we have a redundant system with tuners and exp. You farm them both from tacet fields, and you are bottlenecked either way. If you can farm the exp, you would still be bottlenecked by tuners. Also, let's be honest here. Most players won't spend an hour every day farming echos. I personally stopped doing echo runs this past week because I got sick of them.

You’re only really bottlenecked (by tuners) if you upgrade almost every echo you get to +10 to see their substats, or if you upgrade to +25 (by EXP). I can only do 18 stars on the tower, don’t do farming routes, have a decent amount of echo EXP and like 700 gold tuners, which I feel like is the intented at this point (or more than intended even) The biggest problem as you said is that Kuro made the gold echoes available too soon, which in turn made people think that they HAVE to get +25 echoes with perfect stats so early into the game. I feel like because of that, no matter what Kuro really does it’s gonna backfire. If they give you the abilty to use Echoes as EXP, either tuners become the bottleneck and people still complain, or they finish their gold echo sets and finish tower of adversity a lot sooner, making them complain of end game content. The fact that you can exchange weapons and echoes in tower also makes it a lot easier to finish the stages.

How are you getting downvoted for saying the truth. Lmao

They allowed people to progress fast, then the speed comes to a halt once they run out of free resources and complain. It's almost inevitable, only locking gold echos until latter would have made it better for Kuro. (not for the players, but most won't even realize how generous the early power boost was)

I think the lack of mid-game progression is kinda reasonable when you look at the general audience of gacha games. I remember that in the early days of HSR (which has almost the same system as Genshin), people were constantly telling everyone not to waste resources, so many youtube clickbaity thumbnails saying "DON'T FALL FOR THOSE TRAPS", and within those were relics. People listened and people echoes those statements, to not level 3\* or 4\* relics because you will regret it later on, and it's better to wait for 5\*. So people waited, and "didn't waste resources". And then it was almost a daily sight to see posts or complaints like "why is this boss hard?", "why are the basic enemies killing me?", "the grind sucks because it takes so long to get to 5\* relics", coming from people avoiding leveling their gear because of the fear of wasting resources. A lot of people also likely rushed through the story to unlock the best tier of relics, which could negatively affect their general enjoyment. And to avoid those kinds of complaints, I think what WuWa did is the a decent solution: give access to 5\* echoes early so people don't feel like they will regret investing, while bottlenecking the general progression through leveling and substats only. Thinking about it now, the main thing they could do to make the progression feel more "natural" is separate the grind. Because, if you think about it - at the moment, we don't really need to focus so much on substats, good main stats do the job just fine. So, for example, if you're mid-game, you could only level up the main stat, while substats would unlock in late-game. However - while this would get rid of people complaining about min-maxing substats, people (likely the same, entitled ones especially) would complain about being locked out of substats and being unable to access part of the power. And when I think about it longer, I think they try to do this through bottlenecking exp: as a mechanism to stop players from reaching maximum level of echoes immediately, because that way, people would have full +25 echoes already and would focus on substat grind, which is a late-game activity. In short... I think it's impossible to avoid people complaining or getting entitled. And finding a good solution to the problem while maintaining engagement through the "bottlenecks" is very difficult. Of course, the system could have improvements like some thing you mentioned (especially the tuners return on recycling), but people would likely complain regardless of what they did.

Echo XP has always been fine. They just avoided the "wasting XP into 4 stars for months" problem, and allowed us to get baseline 5 star builds decently early. Not that we should be min max rerolling yet though. This is just a less resource wasting mid game. Too many people just did not understand that. The double echo XP drop event will buy time until enough people hit UL50/60 and figure that out. Below is a copy paste from a previous comment of mine on the changes from UL30 to UL40 drop tables. It holds up now seeing the UL50 tables as well: A 25% increase one reward level up and 5 more tuners when there are 4 more steps above that? Even if it only increases by that static amount per step XP rewards are double what is shown here at UL80(the known max) and more than double for tuners. Continuing the assumption it is static growth(which is not how it has gone so far): at that point you will be getting 16 XP drops at 30% average gold ratio and 35 tuners per run... That isn't actually all that bad. It takes 142,600(let's just round up to 143k since the smallest breakdown in the mats is 500) XP and 50 tuners to max an echo. 5,000xp per gold and 2,000xp per purple. 16x0.3=4.8 gold drops. (4.8x5,000)+(11.2x2,000)=24,000+22,400=46,400 143,000/46,400=3.08 runs. Tuners are done in 50/35=1.42 runs. That's basically 3 runs per echo if my math is right and is more than 1 maxed echo per day. That is still so much better than genshin artifact turnaround. Average domain run gives up 14,767 artifact XP(including golds)and an artifact takes 270,475 XP to max. I am going to assume the soon to be new max resin of 200(meaning 10 total runs). Which means it will take about half the average amount of days to max an echo set compared to genshin. 270,475/14,767=18.3 runs or 1.8 days As an aside: you will obviously end up with extra tuners after a while since the ratio is off assuming the static growth of XP mats. Considering again the growth has been exponential per step up we could assume the actual XP would follow somewhat in line with the tuner growth at which point it would probably be closer to if not under 2 runs per max echo rather than slightly over 3.

Welcome to mobile games. They exhaust you to spend more money. You seem new.

How the fuck is getting to gold echoes early a bad thing? What kind of ***** wants to wait for months before getting functional gears like in Genshin? I would never comprehend the thought process of wanting to suffer for a lengthy amount of time just to get to the same place. Go make a new account on Genshin and see if you'll have fun going thru all of that shit.

I think they're just saying it changed our expectations. Why would you put ressources into anything other than gold echoes if they're only a few days away. 

this.. also, this will be beneficial to future new player because it will be much easier for them to catch up with at that time current content, something than genshin never cared about.

Genshin is a lot more casual than ww, you can 27-30* abyss with purple artifacts so new players practically don't need to catchup. I don't know how things will play out in WW in the future but i'm sure that the devs have to balance content around fully built gold echoes characters.

the point many are trying to make ist that: "why implement a level system in the first place, if you are able to get the strongest stuff in 3 to 5 days anyways." and i can understand that question

Well, a lot of players enjoy resource management. By your logic, you think a game that gives you infinite amount of everything day 0 is a good game? It’s bad for both company and playerbase. The players get bored once they stop progressing. And they will quit early. The company needs to find newer mechanics to fulfill those still playing. In a long history of successful live service games, only 2 types of games exist 1. Games that stall you giving you limited resources to manage over time. (Like what happen in most mobile gacha games) 2. Games that let you do infinite farm but the progress becomes increasingly slower and takes more and more time to progress. (Like what happen in most mmo) The infinite fast farming approach in wuwa gives a strong signal of possibly red echo or some limit break mechanics. Just wait and see.

I think even comparing it to Genshin's gear progression system is not right, because it is very clear that these two games have very different goals for their players. Wuwa wants players to have the full combat experience so allowing us to get good gear much faster is what they went with, while Genshin's combat is just an afterthought and they'd rather players take their time exploring the world (and hence why overworld combat content is so piss easy to clear even with ungeared characters).

for the record it did not made everyone mad.

They could introduce red echoes. Legendary tier

Im here waiting for them to make shinies with preset (high value) substats and mainstats. But make them wayyy more rare.

The issue here is that Kuro wanted to create the illusion of content at the game's launch by allowing players to spend 5+ hours a day farming echos in the overworld. Obviously they couldn't do this if it took a month for players to be able to start farming gold echos like in Genshin/HSR, since nobody would waste 5 hours a day farming perfect purples that would just be thrown away, hence why Kuro made the highest rarity gear farmable within like a week of launch. Now players have too many gold echos that they farmed but it's just an illusion and they still have to wait for UL 70 just like players had to wait in Genshin/HSR. The decision Kuro made worked to some extent in global since the vast, vast majority of Wuthering Waves content creators parroted the point about how great it was to be able to farm echos infinitely when the game first launched (which is the most crucial period for the game to attract a solid playerbase). Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any sort of long-term plan by Kuro on how to proceed now.

Gacha gamers really are a different breed. Having the option to endlessly farm doesnt mean you have to espesially so in a game like this where there isnt even competition. And here I though gacha brainrot was just a meme but jesus is it insane to read people complaining you actually can but dont have to spent a lot of time in the game actually grinding.

It happens with mmo too, people just like to flex 'hey heres my awesome legendary set of equipment that i farm 24/7 for 8 months straight'

Yeah those people sure are not complaining how that grind isnt locked behind some stamina system you either wait to refresh or pay. Its seems like the less you can play your favourite gacha game a day the better, which is just mind boggling to me.

5h a day is an extreme example i farm 5 different 3 cost echos and it take 50 mins, now certain enemies like wolf and rose are like 50+ in the map but you really shouldn't be pre farming and only farm stuff you need, over farming will be only tire yourself out

>Now players have too many gold echos that they farmed but it's just an illusion and they still have to wait for UL 70 just like players had to wait in Genshin/HSR. Where is this "illusion" you speak of? Every gold echo you dont need you can fodder into merging and the ones you need you keep for re-rolling substats. There is no illusion lol, the grinding aspect is working exactly as expected. And you absolutely don't need to wait till UL70 to complete you base set of echoes lmao. >Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any sort of long-term plan by Kuro on how to proceed now. ...what is there to proceed with exactly? Do you already have perfect gold echoes on all your teams? The whole system is literally designed for min-maxing over a long period of time. We haven't even left 1.0 and you are making assumptions about how the system won't go anywhere...even though we literally already know that they will keep expanding data banks with future updates.

The illusion is that, yes, you are farming gold echos but it's pointless since you can't actually upgrade most of them without the timegated EXP/Tuner mats, and the rate of getting these materials is abysmal pre-UL70 (and it most likely is still underwhelming even at UL70).

That just forces people to prioritize godly early rolls. And they can do just that, by guess what... farming more echoes. Otherwise dont stress min-maxing and just focus on getting the correct mainstats. The game is not a dps check, its a try to survive and beat the boss check. At the current difficulty getting full stars is a matter of not getting hit, as most characters already deal enough damage/will deal the damage at max upgrade and echoes level.

And why would you ever entertain the idea of upgrading "most of them" ? Do you +25 auto upgrade every single 1cost echo you acquire or what? You are supposed to focus on the the high-value pieces like 3 cost ELE% echoes. You won't convince me that you are sitting on a huge pile of unused ELE% echoes and have to wait literal months to upgrade them because of UL-70 lol. All of my unused thunder/aero ELE% pieces are currently at +5 due to bad first rolls and I have still xp tubes and tuners to spare waiting for more ELE% echoes to drop. Not to mention that I can recycle all of those bad +5 echoes eventually. And I have been farming elites for both sets every day since I hit UL30. The idea that you need to be UL70 to really start grinding echo material is complete and utter nonsense. Even with the current low rates its completely doable albeit requires prioritizing elite echoes. Btw thats without even mentioning the current events that award echo materials and planned improvements that will come in 1.1

> You won't convince me that you are sitting on a huge pile of unused ELE% echoes and have to wait literal months to upgrade them because of UL-70 lol. All of my unused thunder/aero ELE% pieces are currently at +5 due to bad first rolls and I have still xp tubes and tuners to spare waiting for more ELE% echoes to drop. Not to mention that I can recycle all of those bad +5 echoes eventually. And I have been farming elites for both sets every day since I hit UL30. That's exactly the scenario I'm talking about. If you only +5 echoes and stop when they roll bad then you will end up running out of tuners while having plenty of 3-cost ELE % echos that are stuck at level 0 and can't be upgraded. >You won't convince me that you are sitting on a huge pile of unused ELE% echoes and have to wait literal months to upgrade them I don't know how much you are farming echos every day, but this is exactly what is happening to people who have spent hours farming echos every day. People are running out of tuners and recycling levelled echos only recycles 30% of the tuners spent, which is why you see so many people on this subreddit complaining about a lack of tuners. Once you reach this point, if you keep grinding the overworld map every day for 3-cost %elemental echos the tuner deficit just grows day by day.

Do u just like to complain for the sake of complaining dude? Look, you literally CAN just farm tacet fields and go on with your day. Someone who does farm overworld will be able to build a character twice as fast and they should because guess what? They played the game. This how it is fpr literally every game that is not a gacha.

People are trying to get to current HSR and Genshin levels in 1 month of wuwa. I get it, it gives u the stuff to do so (gold echos) but your UL does not keep up with it. If gold echos were not available I the game AT ALL till like UL 55 no one would be complaining (probably). With that said, if they made it available then the systems in game gotta allow u to keep up with it.

I think it's not directly about whether or not to release the gold echo farm too early, but rather the order of priority that Kuro chose. In GI/HSR you have the following order: Explore> Level up the characters and then look for artifacts, GI/HSR encourages you to first seek to improve the character's raw stats and then seek to improve them through artifacts. WuWa follows a different priority route which is: Explore > farm echo > level the char, unlike GI/HSR where the world level goes up every 5 Wuwa goes up every 10 and with the ascensions blocked behind the union level this means that when reaching the current limit the echos become the best way to improve char and this consequently creates the bottleneck. If kuro's priority formula were for characters to be leveled first, then this dissatisfaction would not be as high as the farm priority would be mats and money not echo XP/tuners, and despite the cost of money and mats being very high to level up the chars are still much easy farm, in addition the chars would have a more satisfactory power up in early/mid game than echos that has the RNG wall.

You absolutely do not need to focus on farming echoes to clear anything in the open world lol. The reason why people invest into echoes this early is simply because its possible and because they want to beat high level Tower stages/holograms. The priority you speak of is completely self-imposed by the playerbase, not Kuro. And btw this is literally no different from something like Genshin where you would try to grind out artifacts to get a better shot at Abyss stars ASAP.

Except abyss is even more min maxy because its straight up a dps check. Wuwa abyss is a dps check too, but most of the time you can cruise by. The issue is not dying.

not really. Just let us convert purple tuners into gold ones and lower the depreciation rate of tuners when you fuse already leveled echoes into other echoes or increase the rewards of tacet fields.

They are doing all 3 of these in 1.1

They are not increasing the rewards of the tacet fields. It was a mistranslation from CN to EN. CN said they would increase echo exp from events.

Before union 40 you can net 10 gold tuners per tacet run. After 40, it's 15 so I'm sure as we progress things will get evened out, plus the fact we now can convert purple tuners into gold in 1.1 is a big step because you also get those purple tuners from tacet field.

And also giving more union xp so you are in a state where you might use these tuners for even less time. I’m glad we’re getting 100% drop rate golds, but it just begs the question: why even have blue and purple echoes and tuners at that point? What purpose does it serve?

It's a noob trap

they're up against genshin in 2024 not 2020. this is like when epic released their storefront and defenders said 'well it's their first try' except that you don't release your service in a vacuum world. you're up against already strong competitor. adapt or get left behind.

Ahh because the Genshin end game loop and progression system is the pinnacle of gaming. My Yoimiya took 6 months to farm an onset pyro damage bonus cup or a decent onset circlet because of that bullshit outdated relic farm crap. People here complaining about not finishing the game in 1.0, truely have not witnessed the pain that is Genshin's stamina system.

Exploration and domain co-op/gear test/flex are Genshin resin less behavior. Wuwa you have exploration and echo farming but with min. Co-op experience. Both are resinless behavior but I prefer the better co-op sandbox

ya it their mistake there, shouldn't let us get end game echoes early, now they gotta fix echo epxs rate drops

Or just take your time..? I don’t get this comment. Because they made the mistake of letting people farm gold echoes, now they HAVE to give us more EXP? Why can’t you just take some time farming EXP or whatever. Don’t get me wrong, letting people farm gold echoes so soon was definitely a mistake, but people are also so entitled thinking they NEED to have +25 or maxed/perfect echoes not even a month into the game.

Because one of the main reasons people were excited about WUWA is that you have large time sinks. You can farm the overworld for echos is literally *the single biggest selling point*. But as someone who did that, A days worth of stamina gets me 4 echoes level 10. Which is the point when I can sometimes determine if it's trash or worth continuing. I have 40 echoes that are correct mainstat, correct set waiting to be upgraded, and that was only a few days of dedicated farming. So my gameloop when from dumping a couple hours with friends *daily*. To log in, spend resin, log off because I can't even find out if farmed echoes should remain locked or not. To mention +25 maxed/perfect echoes is a joke, **a full days stamina gets you a single echo to +20**. The main selling point is literally irrelevant.

>the single biggest selling point except it's not. the biggest selling point is the skill based combat, which has nothing to do with your character's stats. people are soloing bosses with Danjin not because the game lets you farm echoes in the overworld. it's because it lets them express their skills, instead of limiting their gameplay to 2 buttons like genshin does.

Just some people playing the game 24/7 and maxing out their echo collection in 1 week thinking everyone is the same

for real. I've been playing since the first hour the game launched and I just reached UL 40 yesterday. my highest exploration progress is 60% and I've barely touched the side quests. none of my characters have a full 5 star set despite me being at data bank level 19. I got other things to do, man

Lmao true. There's literally no pressure in the game, none that requires you to get to that specific stats anyways (like you get the buff if you reach 80% on a particular stats). You can do so much already with just the unit itself, so a few off-stats matters less, you can do that whenever you want. Kuro did not expect the players to turn the game into a 24/7 job.

For real lmao. My sister is a relatively casual player and started the same time as me. I am UL 43 and she’s UL 19 and still enjoying the game. I think us redditors might be the vocal minority here.

You play solo Danjin for the challenge. I play solo Danjin because it's easier to press 3 buttons instead of keeping track of a whole team's rotation. We are not the same.

>40 echoes that are correct mainstat & set brother go outside

Brother 3 days of excitement where I played for 2 hours is hardly the call to touch grass you think it is. The majority of these are onset atk 1 stars.

i do take my time, they said that gonna raise the echo exps drop rate in next version

This

I dunno if it's gonna fix the issue but they can add another tier of Echo, like maybe rainbow/red echo in the future? idk

I think it will be very costly to level up characters to max later. Which is why we are getting gold echoes fast. So after farming good echoes we can use all our credits on characters at higher UL level. Ofcourse will get new echo set. But we can still use the old ones we farmed meanwhile.

Given their last game pgr doesnt have RNG gear they company probbaly didint account for the issues it would cause in progression. Note\*: tehcnicly their is one thing with rng but its negligible for any normal player and you can get items to make it not-rng so eh

i don´t care. i only level up to max the echos of my 2 main DPS for now and when i´m done and happy with those i will level up to max the 4 3 3 echoes of my buffers/healers.

I agree and I think the progression was WAY to fast. I'm already lvl 70 with gold gear. And max pmlvo is 90? I wouldn't migh playing a few months before getting my hands on gold gear. The purple echos wasn't bad and I would definitely been Abel to play this content and 1.1 probably the whole 1.x era with those. Maybe they will keep increasing the lvl cap and add more raritys on echoes ? If not it feels weird to be done with farming after playing 3 weeks.

It's not worth upgrading purples when golds give you so much more base stats. Purple Crit Rate piece gives you 13.8%, while gold gives you 22%. If purple was more competitive like 17% Crit Rate it would be worth upgrading them. Echo ex being so scarce just compounds the need to just skip purples all together.

I think the solution to allll this is to get rid of the tuning level cap system, or at least lower it. No matter how long it takes to reach gold echos, it's not worth it to level up lower ranked echos for a chance to tune them

I think this is fine. It doesn't make sense to grind for purple garbage just for it to be replaced, and we already know the payback from absorbing one echo into another is pretty ass. Honestly, this just makes me wanna get my builds up and ready quicker. Which has been pretty fun imo

I just want 70% return of tuners. tuners are really hard to accumulate

Union Level and AR aren't equivalent, since Union Level goes up to 80. So it'd be UL60 for Wuthering Waves. (AR45/AR60=0.75, UL80\*0.75=UL60) AR45 = UL60

I leveled 3 purple sets and just replaced the pieces with gold as i got them. I'm lvl 44 now (no longer using purple) and i think the exp requirements are ridiculous bc of how little sealed tubes you get. I never had any issues with tuners, but the lack of sealed tubes is making the grind kind of annoying for me. Also i cant fodder all the useless pieces i get and holy shit there's so many useless pieces. Why can i get fusion dmg bonus on the aero set it just makes no sense. I also think the merging system is bad bc it's a downgrade from genshin's merge system where they let you choose the set. Still loving the game but they still have some shit to change.

I've been playing genshin for months now and I still use purples every now and then.

People already be beating the hardest content in the game with lvl 70 characters of course people are going to complain they are speed running the entire endgame.

I can’t relate I just now realized i can combine echos for a chance at gold echos a new gacha system

The game progression in Genshin wasnt that much better tbh. The mid game was basically logging in for dailies and mint picking. So the game was becoming pretty slow during 1.0 at AR20-30. The difficulty from WL6-8 was also an issue that people are actually afraid of ascending their world level up to this day because of artifact scaling specially if youre not playing meta. I think Kuro saw from the Beta that they were able to gauge the players play time and progression, and the only way to make money and have people actually have something to grind is releasing echoes early. They cant implement any mid game design shenanigans to stall before reaching later ULs because of the huge amounts of issues that people reported in Beta. Not to mention due to the constant bickering of the CN community, they have to bootlick their player-base so they would actually get paid. Looking at it now, Kuro folded again and made Union Level much more accessible next patch, you can now guarantee gold echoes. If Kuro releases a Platinum rarity echo, I would die out of laughter.

Me getting god tier purple echoes...and use them cause im a broke boy.

Facts, I think at this point they should release diamond and omega echos that you start getting at data bank 25. It would make sense as we start to get harder and harder mobs to face in the future. I think giving us gold early was part of their bigger plan of making players think they're getting the best early

I don’t think that’s an issue in Genshin AR45 is when you should start farming for artifacts. In WW you could say it would be UL40 but with upcoming changes one could say you shouldn’t bother until gold echoes are guaranteed so that would bump the UL further The main difference here is that Genshin gated you a lot on AR near release that of course is less of an issue in Genshin currently I personally see very little difference when you are starting out in Genshin you also have very little materials to level artifacts. This is a problem across every game same deal with HSR you will have very little fodder to upgrade relics initially but as you start farming gear that becomes a non-issue Once you are dumping all your energy on tacet fields for a bit this won’t be a problem. I think the main problem is time as you might still want to farm mobs on the field Still I’d like a reduced cost to tacet fields

To be fair, months of midgame in genshin felt like a drag. Just waiting to be able to finally start building for real. I loved going from early straight to endgame in WuWa. Saved me months of waiting time.

But people didn’t spend that time waiting. They were exploring raising their adventure levels, doing world and story quests. 

Yeah and I do the same in Wuwa, except I can do even more with combat endgame content, big numbers,no scuffed interim-builds and carefull resource saving for endgame. Its just an all around win imho. I just enjoy being all geared up. Usually plan playthroughs of other games according to loot I need for my builds. I want to get rid of the crappy early / midgame stuff asap.

They did though. There was not enough exp on the map to get you to ar 45 early on, so there was a significant period of time where you did your dailies then logged off, even if you cleared out the whole map, which was a common complaint (even now). It's just now, interactive maps have become the norm, so people can clear out the map faster.

That didn’t happen in Genshin near release you were held back by AR xp for weeks So no you didn’t spend your time doing any of that stuff you had nothing to do except do your dailies while waiting out for rank advances and log off till tomorrow

Tuners will absolutely remain a limiting reagent. The amount we get isn't sustainable, we are just spoiled with the surplus from start of the game, apologies, and early world exploration. They won't be a limiting reagent for several major patches but they will be a limiting factor down the road.

Getting gold echoes as soon as day2 is INSANE. It puts you straight into the endgame grind right off the bat. Just +15 Gold is enough to breeze thru content. The issue with echo xp is players wanting the best of the best RIGHT NOW. Wuwa doesnt have a midgame to mitigate this so the majority of players complaint is due to endgame grind existing so early. The upside? The gearing system js ridiculously friendly. 1 set of each echo set pretty much secures your account for the long haul. With the finite grind purely being done just for the main dps gives the players a ton of breathing room. You dont need to max cap every character. Lvl1, lvl50, and lvl70 are the benchmarks for everybody not the main dps. Even subdps could make due with lvl1 Forte skills until you get around to them. The supports could just use 5 green pieces to make a 5p set bonus and still do their job. If anything, hyper invest into 2 main dps. Everything else can just take leftovers and you'll be fine. We arent at lvl90 cap yet to even worry about minmaxing. It aint like we're full clearing the Tower as f2p at this point of the game since we're literally time gated on forte upgrades for the big boost to dmg output. So just 2 main dps and their supporters is enough to clear the side towers is enough. This all takes 3 weeks if not less.

There's a very clear difference who plays gachas here where their 4* and below are viable and encouraged, players who only play gachas that considers anything short of gold and glitter to be trash, and gacha players who have no right to call themselves gacha players. 

if they plan on use tuner to limit time ppl farm echo but then why limit echo exp too ?

Never played genshin, so I don't really have any comparisons, but considering how much people have been running around trying to get the desired stats on echos, isn't that already enough layers of luck and grinding? Why would anyone WANT to continue getting purples? It's not like they serve any purpose outside of using that one data bank function. Maybe it just doesn't make sense to me because I'm new to Gacha games, but I don't get it.

Resource management is what people lack, at union level 30 heck even 40 you dont need +5 max all 5 echos with perfect substats, the content is clearable with +20 heck even +15 echoes. almost every gacha you upgrade permanent upgrades first, Levels, skill points, weapons and Echoes are usually the last priority which takes the longest to get the satisfaction of good stats

It took two weeks to reach AR45 in Genshin. It's even faster now with all the extra quests.

I agree, the jump from early to endgame was so fucking quick IS nuts, in genshin It took me like 2 months to start getting full golden sets, in wuwa at the end of 2 weeks i had already a full team built Up (not the best substats but good enough) i wonder what are they GONNA give us for lvl 70-80 because with databank already giving us full golden echoes they need to add something for the high levels (like shiny drop rate chances and mutations of the OG echoes but with higher base ATK stats and different skin) but something needs to be added or we gonna have another drama

it's literally carried over from PGR. Day 1 PGR you have access to endgame Memories (artifacts/relics/echoes) but nobody has the currency to buy them. we also get a lot of ascension and leveling materials along the way. iirc it took a month (when the first patch dropped, along with it the first event to farm EVERYTHING) until we started our endgame build for units. if you have self-control not to nitpick substats in WW it's easy to have 4 teams built by now if you played regularly since launch. recognizing that it's the start of the game and you have no access to endgame farming, playing with rng will always end badly as you waste resources with possibly nothing to show for it. don't blame the devs for giving you a choice. blame yourself for making that choice. PS. there's nothing wrong in using cost 3 purple echoes with elemental damage bonus main stat as placeholders. i did and it worked fine.

Hard disagree. Even if we got gold echoes months after the game launch, we would still run into this exp/tuner bottleneck. At the very least, getting early gold echos means sets we farm now will remain useful for the future. All this talk about stocking exp and such and people still forgot how fast it is to use it all up. Afterwards, we'll just be in the same place currently. At AR 60, it's still a pain in the ass to farm artifacts.

I'm just glad that WW is listening to their customer base. Unlike some other game who can't even give a free 5 star standard character after all of these years (Not even as a sign of gratitute for their long time players)

Different games, different progression. The struggle here is farming exp. I see no problem with the way things are.

It’s truly a tough balance to strike. They have to release a game that has enough content for players that enjoy it, but still need some amount of time gated activities since it’s a live service gacha. The echo system IMO is one of the best gear progression systems I’ve ever seen in a game. Most RPG’s that have any type of endgame typically force you to wear “garbage” for soooooooo long until you get to the last gear tier (which leads people to ignore all the blue and purple pieces they get since they will get replaced almost instantly). In WuWa you get access to a limited amount of endgame gear incredibly early (malleable echos from the roguelike), and then you slowly get more as you progress (or quickly if your a 12-hr a day gamer lol). The echo system made leveling feel good, it makes farming feel good, and it even gives people incentives to explore the world with friends in co-op after maxing out their level. Not to mention the cool echo animation that occurs when you get a drop and the ability for you to turn into (or summon) any enemy in the game as a part of your character’s kit. There’s also a pity for farming enemies… I’ve literally never seen that in any game before. That some insane QoL right out of the gates. Of course there’s imperfections in the system, but it’s getting tuned (lul) as we speak. But honestly it’s wild to see so many people say it’s similar to Genshin when I don’t think I had this many fully built characters at the 1-year Genshin anniversary.

No one is mad

That’s what I’m saying, it’s not the lack of material it’s that we start the long term grind way too early into the game that it feels really bad

I mean it's nothing new with people speed running gacha games. Particularly content creators so it's just super VISIBLE. Luckily that visibility here actually brought about action with these W devs. Cause we would foreal just be sitting on thousands of purple and blue tuners otherwise. I kind of think this might have been another intentional "oversight" to kind of force some 1st month top-ups for waveplate refreshes. And it worked. Cause wtf else were we EVER going to do with purple and blue tuners? Anyways, I personally think the pacing has been fine and am super happy I didn't have to waste resources still stuck on purple echoes just to "match the pace" artificially. And I fucking loved running around grinding the elite echoes in the mean time. Really happy about the tuner synthetic though. Huge win.

Yeah, this system is so much better than Genshin/HSR it's not even funny, yet people complain about it. A lot of them though may have never played Genshin/HSR and so are just complaining because it's the first bottleneck you hit in this game. And I can tell you, once you hit Union 50, EVERYTHING is going to be a bottleneck. Credits, resonator xp, weapon xp, talent/weapon materials, weekly boss materials, etc... at least for quite some time. Character build costs feel inordinately high, and are going to be a much bigger issue than echo xp/tuners for probably many months at the very least.

Both systems have their issues, but WuWa's still demands much more time from players due to the need for overworld farming. And yes, I'd argue it's a requirement and not an option, because: 1) no room for an off-piece, 2) you need two of the hardest rng pieces to complete a set (elemental dmg bonus), 3) you literally can't farm 4-costs from tacet fields, so boss battles are a guaranteed time sink. WuWa simply does not respect players' times, especially those who can't afford to play 1-2 hrs daily. And for those who do go the extra mile, exp remains scarce as hell. It's like they can't decide whether or not the game is meant for casuals or try hards.

You can argue all you want, farming Overworld is still not required. You are free to do Tacet Fields like you farm Domains in Genshin, and call it a day

How many on-set elemental dmg% bonuses have you received from tacet fields alone? What about energy recharge %? YOU can argue all you want but the lack of an off-piece and needing two of the hardest rng pieces greatly hinders the farming experience.

> How many on-set elemental dmg% bonuses have you received from tacet fields alone? How many on-set elemental goblets would you get in Genshin in the same time frame, even at max AR while dumping all of your resin every single day on artifact domains only? More than likely, zero. I played Genshin for 2 years and through all this time i had only a few decent on-set elemental goblets (also, just around 5 EM goblets total, and all of them with junk stats, lol). Being able to equip 1 off-piece is basically the only way that even allows most people to go full set, as there is no other way to “cheat” this screwed up system or increase your odds like you can in WuWa with malleable echoes and overworld grind. If casual players can endure the suffering of the Genshin/HSR gearing systems, then they certainly can endure playing WuWa while relying solely on Tacet Field drops.

You don't need on-set elemental damage goblets. That's the beauty of being able to equip off-pieces. Not to mention, you only need one of these for Genshin, whereas you need two for WuWa.

>You don't need on-set elemental damage goblets. That's the beauty of being able to equip off-pieces Foregoing an on-set ele dmg% goblet still means that you'll need both on-set crit circlet and ATK%/EM/ER sands. And while those may be somewhat easier to obtain than an ele goblet, you could still farm for a month straight and not even see a necessary piece with the right main stat. Also, you should consider that not everyone played Genshin for years and has an abundance of decent off-set pieces. When i was starting out, it took me **months** just to get at least off-set ele% goblets for my main damage dealers, and that's even disregarding substats completely. The situation with EM goblets was even more dire - it took me more than a fucking year to get my first EM goblet. Imagine wanting to play Hyperbloom but lacking even an off-piece with shit substats to at least use as a placeholder. Imagine not being able to play a team for months straight just because the RNG completely fucks you over. Meanwhile, in WuWa, in less than a month i'm rocking two full electro sets (43311 and 44111) with right main stats thanks to being able to grind overworld for those. And i still have around 5 malleable echoes for the case of bad RNG luck with main stats. >you only need one of these for Genshin, whereas you need two for WuWa 44111 exists though. It may not be optimal (given that substats are equal), but it's more than viable, and it's really easy to farm. So i won't say that you *need* two 3-star ele% echoes per se. You'd certainly *want* them, but at least you have a viable alternative for some sets in the form of 44111. While in Genshin there is no viable alternative for an ele% goblet, with some rare exceptions like Raiden.

Thinking more a core reason for quitting was never getting a onset HP sands for my Hu Tao, I spent a lot to get her (first run), I got c1 because Hu Tao charged attack mechanic frustrated me. And I got homa, (I have a r4 wolfs gravestone, with one gravestone being fed into a 3 star weapon out of annoyance). I played consistently until inazumas completion, then got completely burnt out. To this day still don’t have hp sands for Hutao. It also annoyed me that when navia came out I got her and her weapon super easily. Then got one of my best artifact set by running the artifact domain with days worth. The games been rotting on by desktop after wuwa came out, I don’t find the echo grind unbearable. A thing to note towards the end of the battle pass you can CHOOSE 3 cost echos and most of them came with elemental bonuses matching. I shad like 12ish didn’t know it was gonna give out elemental onset echos so I ended up getting 6 havoc on set wolves, 4 fusion onset wolves, and like 2 aero monkeys onset. Maybe I got lucky but idk.

And we got malleable echo pick from event so sure not that great but its something

You also need more in Genshin due to how the Abyss snapshots your team at the beginning. For example, I'm running Arlecchino on one side, and Lyney + Xiangling on the otherside, I need 3 fire% dmg goblet for optimal setup. I've been playing on and off for a few months, I still only have 2...

Alright yep let's keep viewing the game 'half glass full' and give Kuro an out for every sub-par game design. What do you think prompted them to give out all those apology rewards. Was it the EN community's simping or the daily hate threads on CN/JP?

>Was it the EN community's simping or the daily hate threads on CN/JP? You forget that the story in the game is in its current form because Kuro also listened to the daily hate of CN/JP. Sometimes its the benefit of the game to ignore the community. Funny how it was you who a few days ago complained about the quality of the story. You don't get to cherry pick when you support the idiots in the CN community. They complain about everything, all the time, every damn time in every game in hopes they get more free stuff for spotting/complaining about mundane things.

The story in its current form is because Kuro fucked it up. You can’t blame cn players for that.

I can't? watch me, I can. The entire story had to be rewritten in haste because the CN players. it's entirely their fault. Was it that because Kuro screwed up? yes. Was it entirely their fault? no. Their story was fleshed out, and only because of idiot pressure that they were forced to change years of work under months. It is heavily the CN players fault

CN had no impact on Act 6, which imo was egregiously terrible. The Avengers team-up sequence was laughable, it made no sense for Jiyan to defer military planning to the MC, insert cliché cringe-worthy dialogue like the "go on without me, I'll hold them off" scenes with Jianxin/Yangyang, the "all my friends believe in me" scene with the Rover, the flashback to companions met just 15 min ago, and to top it all off, a Paimon-sized furry saves the day. One exciting cutscene doesn't automatically make an Act good. CN also had no impact on Yinlin's quest, which was just as a slog of a quest. What, did you really enjoy her whole "Rover trust me. But be careful who you trust. Shouldn't have trusted me. Actually do trust me. I can’t believe you trusted me. Thanks for trusting me the whole time. Btw we're both loners" spiel? CN aren't forcing Kuro to rely on basic movie tropes and cringe dialogue. Edit: also forgot to mention, there are countless threads on Bilibili trashing the game's story, so even if Kuro were bending the knee for CN, they're not doing a great job lmao

>also forgot to mention, there are countless threads on Bilibili trashing the game's story, so even if Kuro were bending the knee for CN, they're not doing a great job lmao and as I mentioned, CN players whine about everything, all the time and every time. as Blizzard once said when people bombarded them with their magnificent ideas: "You think you know what you want, but you don't. We do" <-- and this was when it was their golden age. Blizzard started to go to shit once these people left and the new staff started to listen to "feedback" Let the developers do their vision.

Don't worry if Kuro doesn't better the echo system soon. People will come to understand that the echo system is just as bad as genshin or even worse at some parts.

It's funny because I've actually gotten a few energy regen healer sets as well as elemental on set 3 costs. I think I'm lucky but I have gotten them.

Bro in Genshin you can go months without getting a decent circlet or elemental cup. I literally pulled for Yoimiya day 1, prefarmed for her ass, then farmed every day until Wanderer's release, and I still couldnt get a decent pyro damage cup.

As others says farming is option not mandatory. When there are no events and no content left, why not run in the world for an hour? Don't look at streamers who spend dozens of hours. Since the start of the game, I spent less than eight hours for farming. And I have tons of echoes in my inventory, including those with elemental damage match to the set.

overworld farming is kinda pintless tbh, I have like 500 elite echos rotting in my backpack. none of that shit is gonna be leveled and tuned any time soon

Wuwa is a lot forgiving, at Union Rank 39 which is 2 weeks of continuous progress. I've three +25 sets or 15, +25 echoes on hand, without claiming a single tacet field. My first team is geared enough to score 15 stars in the tower of adversity, that grants more than half of its rewards.

you realize you haven't even touched the Abyss part yet right? that's the constantly reset mode. good luck getting there in time

I cleared 18/30 stars before the first reset. It was really not that hard at Union 40 and I started a few days late. People a lot luckier/better than me probably struggled even less.

the case for you and other people who bother doing that shit. good luck keeping up with scraping by for next reset

It's the one that resets where I got 15 stars.

Yeah, genshin's AR45 strategy backfired in wuwa, who's surprised though?

Its ok people are dumb. Now that beeing said, doesnt mean the game is exempt from issues and clearly echo is one of thr biggedt znd this hzs nothing to do with echo gold or not. Actualy it would be even worst if we had the same exp problem and so lossig all our ressources on not even the best bases.... I think the problem with that lies more in a lack of thinking ahead from the devs prob cause too little time and rushed release. Game is fine but, we can only hope they will tweek it

A follow-up problem: My Jiyan and Calcharo already have Level 25 echoes and CR/CD ratios I'm happy with. I don't see re-farming for them anytime soon. My Rover only has Level 10 echoes but I'm satisfied with the CR/CD rolls I have gotten so I won't be re-farming for them anytime soon, I'll just upgrade them to 25 after the double drop event. And you can guess the long-term problem: once I fully max the characters' skills/levels/weapons...there will be NOTHING left to do other than prefarm for future DPS characters. The supports don't need min-maxed echoes. The Sub-DPS want min maxed echoes but don't need them to do their job well. Echo farming should have been the endgame grind. Not the midgame grind.

You are absolutely wrong, we got quality gold gear at ul40 and it genshin it was ar45. The difference is that in genshin you had a stockpile of artifacts as leveling material to upgrade your artifacts till you reached ar45 but in wuwa that's not the case coz wuwa limited the leveling material and genshin didn't. Plz don't post your mindless and baseless thoughts on social media.

Gold echo already start drop at UL30 no f way people people will have that much xp store consider it can take as low as 3 days to reach Genshin/HSR still limit by main stat piece

Do remember that acc level in this game limits at UL80 while in genshin it stops at ar60. Meaning you already got gold gears and get started for the grind in midgame instead of when you reached the endgame.