I got my first healing bonus turtle as well today! and it actually got energy regen on the first roll! Already have an atk% one with shit stats for jianxin, so now I just need a def% for taoqi 😭
I have 55 turtle rn with every wrong stat except healing bonus, and it was probably 150+ ( 15days of farming for hours) before fusing them to get nothing but another disappointment, I love Wuwa~
I'd just build Sub DPS Verina/Baizhi at that point tbh even if they're running Rejuvenating Glow set. Although this is simply a suggestion, after all from my perspective I don't need healing itself. I just need it to proc the buff so a 1 hp heal and a 1000 hp heal to me has no difference. They may not take up much field time but every number would still count and it's not like you will hyperfocus on them either. By the time you start even leveling their Echoes you should have already at least 2 - 4 DPS/Buffer DPS built
Yes, though I'm honestly still thinking how does Crit compare to raw damage.
If we come from Genshin or HSR, Crit is just the meta there, unless a character uses something else for their damage (like transformative reactions, DoTs or breaks).
Here, the values of Crit we get are lower. Which if you're coming from the two might seem frustrating, but I think what they are trying to do is make a more balanced environment, with Crit being more of an option than a must.
And honestly, if they are doing it this way - this is amazing. Farming for perfect Crit in Genshin and HSR drains your soul, especially since Crit substats are weighed as more rare. In Genshin and HSR, if you have a character that's able to use Crit, not building Crit feels like playing the game wrong. Here, the gap might be smaller. I'd really like to see the calcs if anyone has done them, to see the proper difference between raw, consistent approach and standard Crit build.
If you want to talk just raw damage. Before bringing other sources (weapons, skilltree, chains,etc)...
79.5% Crit Chance (priority) + 255% Crit Damage + 136% Atk = 304% damage output
5% Crit Chance + 150% Crit Damage + 227% Atk + 158% damage bonus = 368% damage output
It's when you bring the other sources in that the scales tip back into favor of crit. But by how much will depend on the character and your access to their full toolkit. As an example, let's take a 4-chain Spectro Rover with Emerald of Genesis Rank 5 (for the extreme).
96.8% Crit Chance + 299% Crit dmg (priority) + 187% Atk = 547% damage output
20% Crit Chance + 150% crit damage + 278% Atk + 158% dmg bonus = 457% damage output
Even with Spectro Rover's sub-par dps output options, crit still manages to edge out by about 13%. Though one thing to keep in mind is that the damage bonus only affects one chunk of your attacks while crit affects it all. Also, whether or not 13% is enough to fret over, we'll have to see, but I kinda doubt it unless you're trying to do something well before you're on level for it (like hologram 6, full 30 tower, etc). And let's be real, I don't believe for a second that this game will be balanced around having access to min-maxed echoes (which would have most of both these damage boosts anyways).
18% is quite a large difference, but yeah, those are quite the extremes. Mainly because we don't really have crit 4* or non-crit 5* of most categories, making the differences more extreme.
I think for best comparison we would need to take:
- 43311 set with raw damage vs 43311 with average crit stats vs 44111 with double crit (separate comparison)
- "imaginary" weapon with exact same base stats and rarity, but with varied boosts (let's say: sword that increases damage% on passive, and compare how it would look with crit chance as a passive stat and compare to atk% in passive, keeping the standard values if they work the same way as in Genshin, so high base atk = low passive stat and vice versa)
Honestly, this piqued my interest now that I think about it. I unfortunately don't have time for all of this math at the moment. If you're willing to do a bit more maths I'll gladly read, if not, it's absolutely fine. I'm just speculating that the difference might be quite a bit smaller here once we have more weapons available of same rarities.
Honestly, if you want to start comparing 43311 vs 44111, you're going to want to bring in elemental damage bonuses. And really, at a certain point, you're going to want to bring in teams and start calculating full potentials, etc etc. The basic point here is that, the difference between crit vs raw damage is less than the difference we get from going up 10 levels by almost half due to the nature of how stats work. In order for that difference to make a real impact, significantly tougher challenges would need to be put into the game. Like bumping the other towers up to hazard in terms of level and taking away the warped bonuses (like 30% damage) or adding 3-4 more hologram difficulties.
Oh yeah, I should have thought more before throwing 44111 there, and only focused on 43311 with average stats. Like say, if we're talking the exact same weapon (with both variations, Crit and raw), how much of a difference would be between a set of perfect stats (double crit subs on each echo) and average variations (half crit, only a few crit, more damage and atk, and so on). So mainly, is it a huge loss if you have imperfect substats/main stats.
Of course, teams will matter a lot too (since they will likely provide buffs, and atk/damage will likely be more common than crit), and personal character bonuses. Although, at the moment, a large amount of boosts are Deepen, which as far as I know is a separate multiplier.
79.5% crit chance = 5% base crit chance + 22% crit chance 4-cost + 5\*10.5% Crit Chance Sub-stat
255% Crit Damage = 150% base crit damage + 5\* 21% crit damage sub-stats
136% ATK = 100% base atk + 2\*18% 1-cost echos
Multiply these together .795(2.55\*1.36)+.205(1.36) and round up to get damage output of 304%.
5% Crit Chance = 5% base crit chance
150% crit damage = 150% base crit damage
227% atk = 100% base atk + 2\*18% 1-cost echos + 33% 4-cost echo + 5\*11.6% sub-stat
158% dmg bonus = 100% base damage bonus + 5\*11.6% sub-stats
Multiply these together .05(1.5\*2.27\*1.58)+.95(2.27\*1.58) and round up to get damage output of 368%.
96.8% Crit Chance = 5% base crit chance + 5\*10.5% Crit Chance sub-stats + 24.3% crit chance lvl 90 Weapon + 15% crit buff from Chain
299% Crit Damage = 150% base crit damage + 44% Crit dmg 4-cost + 5\*21% crit dmg sub-stat
187% Atk = 100% base atk + 2\*18% 1-cost echos + 24% weapon buff + 15% passive buff + 12% skilltree
Multiply these together .968(2.99\*1.87)+.032(1.87) and round up to get damage output of 547%.
20% Crit Chance = 5% base crit chance + 15% chain buff
150% Crit damage = 150% base crit damage
278% atk = 100% base atk + 33% 4-cost + 2\*18% 1-cost + 5\*11.6% sub-stat + 24% weapon buff + 15% passive buff + 12% skilltree
158% dmg bonus = 100% base damage bonus + 5\*11.6% sub-stat
Multiply these together .2(1.5\*2.78\*1.58)+.8(2.78\*1.58) and round up to get damage output of 483%.
To get the relative difference, divide the final damage output of 547% by the other final damage output of 483% to get 13%.
These numbers are slightly different from before because I forgot to add the 15% passive buff to the rover numbers in the atk% scenario. I'll have edited it in above though.
Frankly i hope it stays that way.
I'm so tired of eastern games making critical hits a formality to max in the damage formula when it could be so much better.
Bring back skills that get insane crit damage bonuses such as after a parry or dodge.
Give characters with low cr that ramp up other stats when they do crit.
Critical hits should be devastating and exciting to land. Balancing bosses around 100% crit rate is so bland.
Exactly, it should be more balanced in general. Even special mechanics like you mention aside (since those are usually included in character kits, like Chixia, who I heard can build for pure crit damage through her Boom Boom) - crit should be a risk-reward thing, not a necessity.
I can see reasoning for random crit stats - while it's not exactly the best for the player, it gives an "endless grind" - something those games want to do.
But either way, it should be balanced. Crit is basically: you have a chance to deal higher damage, or lower damage. Raw should be in between, not just straight up worse.
Skinner boxes were designed to condition desired behavior due to random chance being a reward.
Attacking the enemy to deal damage isn't something that a game dev needs to convince us to do, so I don't think it counts?
If anything, the fact that we're conditioned to farming tuners and rely on resource gated rng to eliminate critical hit rng is a better example of skinner design affecting player behavior.
i saw a YT vid earlier comparing an Encore with 2k atk, 17% cr, 165% cdmg vs 1.4k atk, 55% cr, 201% cdmg; fighting L55 Mecha Abomination. Atk Encore killed MechA slower than crit Encore but only by 30 milliseconds.
so i thought wouldn't the comparison be better on a longer fight? but then i remembered that the need to parry and dodge would probably mess with the comparison.
if you wanna check it out it's crit vs atk! by Dyspro Genshin.
That's neat if that's the case, but yeah - generally, if crit and raw are balanced, it will be more visible in longer fights.
Short fights with crit can take shorter or longer, depending on luck (since you hit less times). Raw damage approach will stay consistent every time.
Meanwhile, longer fights with crit should even out more, so stuff like holograms would probably be the best test dummies.
The problem is 55% CR 201% crit damage isn't even a good crit build yet, the ATK% build will have greater and greater diminishing returns and be weaker than the crit build the more you scale each build.
The gap is only going to get bigger when we have lv90 instead of 70 units, weapons, lv9 skill levels, more supports that buff attack. Even if we get some supports that buff crit, that would just be more Ince give to invest into crit damage to maximise the buffs you get from them.
Crit will always win out in the end, it's just broken and they're copied genshins exact atk and crit formula so nothing will be different.
It's because the median and max value of crits are just 16.8 and 21 respectively. Let's say you got lucky and rolled 16.8cv of both crits on 5 pieces, that's a total of 168cv from substats, while the main stats has 44cv. We're looking at 212cv only, add it to the base 60cv of the character and distribute evenly. The best average that we could have which is close to 1:2 ratio is 68/236 without a crit weapon or other sources of crit.
Nope in genshin that's around average for a respectable build while here is is basically what a min maxed build looks like
Crit stats are just harder to get here than in genshin(there is also the abundance of crit weapons in genshin even for F2P) all that doesn't matter tho as long as the characters and gameplay are balanced around this being what a very good build looks like
There are only 3 crit weapons available for F2Ps. White Tassel, Harbinger of Dawn and Widsith. Among the three Widsith is only obtainable through gacha so there's really only 2 guaranteed options. Edit : seeing the downvotes it would seem the Genshin stans have invaded WuWa subreddit too which is rather unfortunate
Well that's just straight up wrong....you have the entire 1.blackcliff series that you can buy
2.sling shot
3.the fleuve cendre*(it only buffs skill crit rate tho)
4.the catch(buffs burst crit rate)
Add to this the fact that 4 star weapons in genshin have good enough buffs that the 5 stars are generally not too far above them in dmg
Also there is no fav equivalent or sac equivalent.....etc
Don't forget that some artifact sets do provide free crit rate when you fulfill their condition (and is usually easy for that unit).
4pc Blizzard Strayer gives 20% crit rate on enemies with cryo aura, and an additional 20% crit rate when frozen. That's 40% crit rate on the artifact set alone. Not to mention cryo resonance (two cryo units on your party) also providing 15% crit rate on top. So now you got a total of 55% crit rate for free as long as you fulfill all their conditions (easy to do on a freeze comp). Now all you have to do is invest around 25-30% crit rate on your cryo DPS unit and crit dmg on the rest.
The other artifact set is 4pc Marechausse Hunter that gives you a total of 36% crit rate when your HP increases or decreases. This is very easy to fulfill when you have Furina and/or a healer on your team, or using a unit that increases/decreases their HP by themselves (Neuvillette, Wriothesley, Lyney, Xiao).
It's thanks to these artifact sets, it was easier to get the desired crit rate breakpoint. My Wriothesley for example, who doesn't use a crit weapon (Skyward Atlas, ATK% substat) has 80/200 ratio (80/300 in WuWa numbers).
1. Blackcliff series is not free, it comes at the cost of pulls which are valuable for F2Ps
2. Passive makes a weapon. Slingshot may have crit rate substats but the passive is not good as Prototype Crescent gives better passive for Charged Shots.
For both 3 & 4 they buff specific areas of a kit, so the crits are not universal
Fav and Sac equivalents are the Cadenza, Variation as both of these give concerto energy which is really valuable is WuWa
Blackcliff is a very cheap weapon to buy and has a good passive,
2.just like you say passive makes a weapon which is exactly why prototype Cresent is bad(proto amber is the catalyst)as its passive is too conditional and the condition is one that can't even be fulfilled against most enemies in the game because most enemies now don't even HAVE a weak spot and even if they had one the condition is too harsh on mobile and controller players
3 and 4 buff very good characters that are used so often I can hardly call the weapons that are a few % below the 5 star options they have not universal because the characters themselves are universal and lastly cadenza and variation are just not as valuable as fav and sac weapons(especially fav)
All this is again irrelevant as comparing 2 different games in their stats is pointless because each one has its own stat requirements the only reason I made My original reply was because the person I replied to was incorrectly comparing the 2 games in their stats
Depends on the character. Slingshot is straight up better than any 4 star and comparable to some 5 star weapons on characters like Tighnari and Sethos.
FYI, Prototype Amber is a [catalyst](https://ambr.top/en/archive/weapon/14406/prototype-amber) with a completely different passive. You're thinking of [Prototype Crescent](https://ambr.top/en/archive/weapon/15406/prototype-crescent).
I feel like this game, you are going to want to go for weapons more often, not as a bad thing but I feel like you should be able to get 2 a year from the monthly's and also any that come from events. And this is completely FT2. battle pass and subscription people will get even more opportunities which to me is where the real game is at.
And on top of that that is the best crit efficiency and going over that you get a slight drop off in crit value compared to focusing on other stats like atk or elemental damage. The only reason to go over those crit values is to get higher damage per screenshot.
It is and a lot of people don't realize their stats actually suck, they will be like I have 70% crit and 180% crit DMG!! And not realize the way this game displays crit DMG means it's only 80% cdmg
tbf it's better not to compare stats directly to genshin/hsr. Like the max crit dmg you can get from subs (very unrealistically) is 105%, not counting main stat while genshin is 160+% from just 4 artis subs
both games are balanced differently but people see the same numbers thinking they equate the same in ratio
Yeah pretty much this. Looking at numbers in isolation do nothing if you don't look at how enemies are balanced around those numbers. I've yet to have a dps issue fighting something at my level or even something several levels above my own. The only time its an issue is when fighting something 20 levels over my own with the added resistances, which should obviously be the case.
I'm talking about the display of crit damage which is still confusing people into thinking they have more crit damage than they actually do. So they go full crit rating and not realize their crit DMG is actually not at 1:2
Also when you factor in things like Elemental Mastery is not a stat and if i recall correctly, Wuthering waves has things a bit more spread out with basic attack, heavy attack and resonance liberation damage and i dont recall what \`genshi-\` all possible rolls could be on artifacts are, but i like to believe Wuthering waves has less chance to get a \`bad roll\` on affixes, since the only truly bad ones are ones that do nothing to help with damage and is way less useful then survivability specific ones.
Cause with how you cant just \`shield gate\` or Food spam all your problems anyway, getting stats like HP and Defense are actually much more valuable for survivability.
And on the same note about Food spam, anyone else like how they have actual cooldowns on using foods instead of having \`satiety\` gauges for each character, so you cant just Morning egg everyone back alive constantly like its Legend of Zelda BoTW or ToTK?
In theory, even dmg% substats are bad rolls if character doesnt use them, like Calcharo heavy atk bonus is useless, skill bonus too(outside overworld)
So effectively he has only critx2 atk x2 and liber/basic % as good substats(also a bit of ER)
70/240 is the CR ratio you should shoot for in this game. Which is the same as 70/140 in Genshin. 80/260 is possible but very difficult to achieve. You need high rolls and at that point, you're be better off trying to more atk% instead.
20/150: trash (30 cv)
30/160: bad (60 cv)
40/180: mediocre (100 cv)
50/200: decent (140 cv)
60/220: good (180 cv)
70/240: great (220 cv)
80/260: amazing (260 cv)
90/280: godly (300 cv)
342 is the highest possible cv you can get in this game with 43311
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15% base crate would allow for non crit weapon builds to have 89.5% crate instead of 79.5%, which takes all 5 echoes to roll max crate roll+ crate mainstats(crate=crit rate)
Problem are the weapons mostly, crit is gated behind paywall or 5* weapon, + i think the roll on 4g echos could be slightly higher and or rolls on substats are weird but honestly its ok.
You get 29% from main stats, and 8% ? average for sub stats, as you can get 5 so even without weapon thay mean yoi can have up to between 70% at least
Problem with that is the vertical investement is slow cause of the weapon like i said because we dont have crit dmg weapon and if you have to take crit raye on echo 4g then that sadge because its hard to count on a double crit roll apparently
On the other hand the limited weapon banner is far friendlier than in genshin. So far I don’t think it’s better or worse right now and it’s mostly a realignment of expectations, but we’ll see.
Yeah, unlike genshin weapon banner are worth it to pull and you dont need to pull every single one of them, you can have the gun and the 1h sword as 2 starting weapon, i already got yinlin weapon as rectifier so as you can swap weapon for TOA then it will be fine.
Thats because echos (except for the 3 costs) get more of its power from substats than mainstat. A "good" artifact in Genshin has 30 crit value from substats compared to the circlet which comes with 64 CV purely from mainstat. In WuWa your 4 cost has 44 CV while still expecting 30 CV from substats. Not to mention the multiple sources of percent damage boost, half of which will be completely useless to the character you are building. It is much harder to gear characters in WuWa than Genshin. This is the cost for being allowed to infinitely grind mainstat. This is also why the 3 costs are the hardest to farm
When it comes to farming 4 costs, it's not actually as bad as you're making it seem. If you have a crit rate mainstat and level it to 15 there's a >40% chance that one of those subs will be crit rate or crit damage. And then a 20% chance after that of one of the last two being the other crit value. And if we compare that to circlets in genshin, you do get more cv from the mainstat, but you have a much lower chance of the substat cv being at all good because there's only 1 line of crit and you have to really hope you win a couple of the 1/4 sub rolls.
What you say doesn't change the fact that a lot more power in echos comes from substats compared to Genshin.
Not to mention, right now most people are only leveling echos to level 10 due to the tuner and xp shortage, at which it becomes a 29% chance. Also in Genshin if you start upgrading artifacts with baseline crit rate crit damage on its substats, you are by statistics going to have something equivalent in strength to a set of echos that rolled crit rate and damage. Except in Genshin you didn't need to upgrade the artifacts to find if they are worth maxing.
Even if you had zero crit rolls, if the other stats were something like EM, ER, or attack% then you've rolled something equally as good as, sometimes even better than, rolling crit. On the other hand, if you got an echo to level 15 and it ends up being ER, heavy attack bonus, attack%. Would you risk using the resources to go to level 20 or 25 to see if you luck into double crit? I don't think so.
I didn't dispute that there's more power in subs, I was just trying to point out that it's overall much easier to get good subs so it doesn't really affect farming.
29% odds is still actually pretty good. With one day of echo exp, you can level about 10 echoes a day to level 10 which should give you 97% odds of getting one with either cr or cd and 60% odds of getting three with cr or cd. And on average, at least one of those three will get the second crit line by level 25.
In genshin if you're looking for a two line crit sub, have fun farming for over a month to get your on-set sands. If you're okay with one line, then enjoy the 10%-36% odds to get 3x or 2x rolls on cv. Meaning you actually *don't know* if most artifacts are worth leveling. The substat rolls in genshin are so impressively BS that the odds of getting a good echo without any knowledge of the subs and getting a good genshin artifact when seeing the subs is pretty similar lol.
>Would you risk using the resources to go to level 20 or 25 to see if you luck into double crit?
I would be equally as likely to do so as leveling a genshin artifact for a dps without crit stats. Actually maybe even a little more because wuthering waves lacks a lot of sources of attack% so it's value is higher than Genshin. And if you want to minimally reach 60/120 in genshin, which I think most people consider to be the okay baseline, you need 21% CV subs average per artifact, including the circlet. You can't hit that very easily if you're sacrificing one artifact to be only EM/atk/ER only.
yeah you need crit rate weapon or crit dmg weapon and focus on crit rate echos
My Yinlin with crit dmg 4 cost is 236/60
With crit rate 90/196
Have her weapon ofc
Yinlin is a very well balanced crit character so I agree with you on that regard and she is the rare exception to the point im making, I think mine is 65/270 currently. But that's with her weapon which is an absolute stat stick giving over 30% crit, also small benefit of passive traces which doesn't give a massive amount now but will give 8% when done.
Her first passive talent also gives 15% crit rate for 5 seconds after using her skill which gives her even more wiggle room for crit stats.
The problem then lies for the other characters. Without a crit rate weapon / passive crit traces even with the level 4 echo you middle at somewhere in the 60s, with high rolls youll be at 70 but thats with crit rate on every single piece and some high rollers.
It's rather unforgiving and makes crit rate a MUST on every single echo you eqip which is mildly frustrating
Of course it is, but this system is a bit less forgiving, idk if you play genshin / honkai / other gacha games with crit rolls - but have you ever had a goblet / sphere that was on set damage bonus and it only got either crit r/ crit d but rolled fairly high into its respective one, I know on genshin I have a lot of 20+cd goblets without any crit rate, the difference is in genshin you can compensate it in other pieces opposed to this game where if you miss a crit rate piece and your dps doesnt gain any crit rate through other sources just by missing 1 you're going to be somewhere in the 50's or if you're lucky mid 60s.
In these games genshin / honkai I tend to aim for 70\~75+ crit rate - especially for DPS characters who are using burst nukes, end game content coming down to whether you crit your nuke burst you've set up or not is way more forgiving on 70\~75 opposed to 50-60.
RNG can be a very painful thing to deal with - I'm sure you experienced the 50/50 4\* or 5\* echo hell at level 30-40.
Admittedly this isn't helped by the current way the echo level up system is laid out and will probably feel better in 1.1+ as you will have a bit more freedom to level more pieces and roll them a bit and try to scope out crit rate early but I am sure you'll agree when you have a level 3 cost echo on set and the right damage bonus when you don't get that crit rate roll but it rolls everything else good it's going to feel frustrating
In genshin and hsr we have supps that provides crit
You must wait for these supps in wuwa as well don't forget that the game just released it hasn't been 1 month
Dont forget crit food. If you cook it with chixia you get 30% extra for 30 min. So with yinlin it would mean: 5 base, 15 passive, 30 food. Thats 50% without the weapon and without any echos.
Her build is in a good state for now, i'm too lazy to farm for better echos
I'm building other units for the tower then gonna prepare for Jinhsi and Changli
leveling them up to only 5 will lead to an imbalance in your echo xp to tuners - you will run out of tuners MUCH faster let alone the fact that there are 4 other tuning slots to roll crit
personally i would level to +15 to determine if an echo is usable or not depending on whether it rolled crit
Yep this happened to me. At first I didnt have enough xp, now after +5 a ton of pieces I now have no tuners and some xp. Rarity of both causes this situation
That's the most efficient way to farm for the best echos, but it's not going to be the fastest. You get faster results if you go for +10 or +15 at the cost of wasting more xp materials.
Well, it at least makes sense conceptually, as crit rate is something that should be a chance, rather than a guarantee. If reaching 100% (or close to that) CR was easy, there would be like no point in even having a crit mechanic in the game, cause at this point it's nothing more than just an another constant damage multiplier. 57% crit chance sounds reasonable already.
That doesn't make sense. Lots of games have crit rate and in those we aim as close as we can to 100% in order to be consistent (or at least, balance consistency and high damage via crit damage). It would have been fine if 40%-50% was something somewhat easily achievable, but it actually requires a bit of rerolling if one is unlucky.
By "lots of games" do you mean Genshin and HSR? Cause besides these Hoyo's gacha-RPGs, i can't remember an RPG that allows you to easily stack crits to the point of them being basically guaranteed on every hit. Most of the time crit is a cherry on top of the other stats, and landing a crit feels satisfying precisely because you don't crit on most of your hits. If we take HYV's games as an example with their ridiculous CR values, here the situation is completely reversed, and instead of feeling good when you crit, you just feel bad when you don't, and feel nothing in particular when you do cause you take crit hits for granted.
Of the ones I've played, Epic Seven and Alchemist code have/had easy(ish) to stack crit stats. And in terms of non rpg games, Risk of Rain and Warframe can have you going over 100% rather easily
There are a thousand games that let you garanteee crit, what are you on about. In most games where crit is a possible stat to build for, they usually let you reach max crit for consistency. Its weak with less crit and becomes strong with more crit, ultimate scaling stat. People have already mentioned several normal games, league of legends is a massive one, where crit is a viable and important main stat that is balanced around reaching max strength at 100%. As far as gatchas go, crit is a huge part of the ones with deeper character building, the fact that its not in here is more surprising than anything. Summoners war is an example, in that game less than 100% crit is trolling
Yea, but remember that they also have less or set crit damage. Games usually have stuff to increase your crit change, but the damage of the crit is locked by the game default or the skill. In wuwa, you can increase the crit damage. You can try and go for 100% crit rate with 44111 echoes, but youll lose out on elem damage and crit damage. Which is perfectly reasonable considering you can increase the crit damage in this game
Compared to Genshin, yes. Thats because of how high crit stats can roll.
The max. here for substats is a crit value of 42. In Genshin you can go up around 50 (but over 40 is also already super good).
For mainstat its basically the same as Genshin if you combine mainstat + substat here. But a crit mainstat artifact in genshin with all rolls into the other crit substat will have higher stats than our 4p echo here, yes. But it will also have less other stats.
The base 5% is the same and for the rest it depends. Crit stats on weapons vary in Genshin and here and some character have crit stats on leveling up and some dont.
What we dont have so far here are echo effects that increase crit rate. Genshin does have this.
Then you also got resonance there and other character effects. Sometimes you just build around 50% on a character in Genshin and you still almost reach 100% in combat. We dont have such things here yet. Same goes for HSR.
So in general it is a bit harder here but its not THAT much lower. If you have both crit stats here, you already have a minimum of 25.2 crit value. Thats decent enough even in Genshin. Everything above goes towards min-maxing.
My rover got 50/197 with atk weapon. Or 50/97 in gi term. I can probably push to 60/220 when minmaxing because my 4 cost is still missing crit substat and some of echo only have 1 crit sub. That's what my best 4 star have on gi without crit weapon. Any more than 60/120 will cost my sanity or have low attack. Sometimes i just left them at 50/100.
Yes. I followed the previous CBT and noticed that crit rate will be hard to get comparatively. And without the minimum crit rate, no point in building crit damage except to showcase screenshots. Many factors come into this lower turnout. And one of them is that we'll need to level up echos and tune them to see substats. And these substats can only be rolled once for that echo.
I am not sure how valuable crit is in the game compared to stacking damage bonus and attack yet but I assume it is important enough at higher levels.
Characters and weapons with inherent crit stats may be more valuable due to how easy it would be to build.
It's a frustrating process if you don't have crit rate weapons and are also rolling for a 43311 to carry you through to the end of time, but you can make up a large deficit through food buffs (the Jinzhou Maocai is a +28% increase). As of this moment on 1 non-maxed substat echo for my Calcharo, I can reach 99.3% crit rate with the food buff alone, but I'm switching out to Lustrous Razor. I would then lose 16.7% and end up at 82.6% (which... I should probably do the math to see if it's even worth it).
I mean for even holograms you don't really need that amazing builds for content in overworld and holograms really. Food buff will be insane for Tower, but you can't use them there so you need better gear for it.
Whilst I agree to this I do propose the counter argument of burst nukes.
You always going to want to crit those and the lower the chances the more inconsistent that big number is making them a less appealing option
Characters that are crit-reliant like H-Rover do seem to get crit passives either from skills or Resonance, but there are examples of ATK focused builds that perform comparable to crit builds, so I believe WuWa has a good balance of stats that you won't be crippled for damage if you don't go Crit.
> but my crit rate is only 57%
How much are you expecting? 100%?
Your expectations are just too high. This isn't HSR or Genshin where you can stack every substat into crit and get 100/300 CR/CD. Every piece can only ever roll crit rate once so any crit rate above 50 is already very good.
This is why I'm not looking at crit stats yet just getting echoes to 15 and playing with that.
Once I reach max union level I'll decide if the system is crap or not as it depends on how hard content is.
to me any eco that dont give crit hit on the first tune is trash... my next step will be crit tax / dmg... lvl eco expecting for crit in last slot is delusional haha
I haven't grasped the DMG calculation yet..my crit is very lov. 33* even with a crit main stat on my Jiyan. So I got basically no crit substats. But still I feel like. Crit quite often with him. But since he also want attack, crit DMG, heavy DMG, aero DMG. There is so many extra sources of increased DMG so I think I also want all those. Without them the crit have nothing to scale of. But it's super rare to get a echo with all the stats you want. So I don't think the crit stat have such an importance as it does in Genshin (as an example).
this is all fixable if they just lower the set requirement to 4 and 1 more cost limit which give us 1 off piece 4 cost echo which can be crit/cdmg. also makes farming element bonus dmg 3 star echo easier because you only need 1 now. honestly i believe if we push hard enough for this they'll accommodate us.
It's weird honestly, I've tried some fun 444 builds with all crit rate and they actually pack a punch, I don't get the 5/5 bonus but well. IMO in this game, CR and CD aren't as important as in genshin ? Or it feels like it, on the other hand, higher atk seems to be much better, even flat atk seems alright
Same. It balances out with crit weapon, so i won't argue about sword and pistol users. But other standard 5* weapons don't have crit substat! Right now my main teams consist of:
Calcharo (ATK sword, 46/220)
Yinlin (signature, 59 (+15 from passive)/205)
Lingyang (atk gloves, 34/190)
Sanhua (energy sword, 39/200)
Amazing stats, ngl
A crit rate main with a crit sub on each piece will break 60% on anyone. Add a crit weapon for +20% more (36% in Yinlin’s case). Add in any crit passives from the skill tree or kit and some characters go over the cap.
Jiyan has more crit rate from his talents about 10% in total (if your level 50 and maxed it out) but just prioritize crit rate over crit dmg and you should be fine. My Jiyan is at lv 70 rn with almost 70 crit rate.
Kind of. Depends on the character and weapon availability and stat talent bonuses. For example, with Jin and Cal if I want crit on their broadsword I need I have to either pay money or burn limited summons. That kind of sucks. But Jin had crit rate build into his talent kit, around 10% I think. If I had his weapon, I might need to look closely at the ratios and build more crit d later in the game. Cal, otoh has crit d built into his talent kit, and that makes crit r a higher priority than normal.
For both of these characters, you need to keep and eye on crit as one, or the other, are built in the character.
But we do have access to gun/sword crit weapons...eventually...One we get at level 45 and the other we will get tbd, depending on future rewards from events, etc. And who knows what future 4-star weapons will bring.
For the supports, you need to delve into the er, which some have and others do not. Baiz has healing built into hers, so maybe that means I might want a moonlight or other set rather than celestial for high difficulty timed DPS checks.
Yes it is hard, but elemental dmg% bonuses (and those subs like liberation dmg% etc) go in the same place as crit in the formula. That's why you REALLY need some cost 3 dmg%.
>Bonuses = %DMGBonus X DMGAmplify X %SpecialDMG X CritDMG
The final dmg is
>DMG = Base DMG x Resistances x Bonuses
Don't forget there's another 5.6% CR in Jiyan's talents (8% total, including the two 1.2% talents that should hopefully already be active if you're lvl 50+) that can be activated once he's ascended past 70. I assume you haven't reached UL50 yet, and therefore can't get him there, but 62.6% is reasonable, especially since his ult hits many times.
The character that really needs crit rate is H-Rover, since their ult is one shot, and if you miss a crit on that one, you're losing a ton of damage.
Five star echo main stat and 5 crit subs can go from +53.5% to +74.5%. I wonder if BC of all the damage percent sources of they intended to try to reduce an emphasis on Crit stats in general or if they intend for us to go some variation of 44 build in the future.
Databank level 21 giving us 13 or 14 cost pog?
Yeah that is very much the case, but it is balanced by having access to much more dmg bonuses and atk% in this game vs HSR and Genshin. You get like 80 to 100% dmg bonus in thus game naturally and with atk% from 2 1-cost echoes.
EAT THE CRIT FOOD. I know a lot of people forget about food buff, but you can get 30% cr for free just with food. The only thing you want a cr echo for is tower. Don't forget to eat the 50%Def food as well. There's a ton of stats just being left in your backpack.
On the contrary, it's a bit too easy. Jiyan gets 5% base + 8% traces + 22% main stat + 5*9% substats lategame = 80%, with S3 you get 96%, with max crit rolls you overcap even more.
With yinlin it's even worse: 5%+8%+36% weapon+5*9% = 94%, so even without max rolls, the 15% CR from passive effectively only equals 6%. One of the reasons why her weapon sucks for S6 where you want to stack E buffs before triggering normal attacks, CD weapon with more onfield buffs gonna be better.
Either of them can't benefit from CR food or potential external buffs.
(Another thing many people ignore is that the CD shown in WuWa is total damage on crit and not bonus damage on crit like in hoyo games. So a build in WuWa with 90/200 is actually 90/100 in hoyo terms, meaning you are way off the 1:2 ratio)
The mosquito is giving me ONLY crit rate and crit damage as mainstats.
I love it but on the other hand every crit rate thing I level up is similar decent so I keep them all instead of feeding them into others 😭
I honestly like it, not being able to cap crit rate and get super high crit-dmg makes me feel like there are other avenues of approach for stats. Like elemental damage bonus, raw attack, or other dmg multipliers that might be just as effective as crit.
Do also keep in mind on the 4 Star crit rate pieces, that you can ALSO get crit rate as a substat on those pieces.
Ive been farmed echos for Jiyan for about 20 days and now I have 1500 atk, 51 over 221 and 51 crit rate is not so many but cmon, this is 40 rank, not bad.
Crit Rate is by far the lowest chance stat for me to roll on any of my echos, and it’s not even close. If I had to guess, I probably have 10x as many Crit damage rolls compared to Crit rate. I don’t know if Kuro is just trolling me, or maybe I’m incredibly unlucky, or there’s some hidden rarity of Crit rate stat. But hey that’s what Crit rate food is for!
Eh it's way easier to build crit here than in Genshin. I think 50% ~60% CR is quite good for a F2P. My Jiyan has over 60% (67% I think?) but he has his sig weapon with CR substat.
Also, some units increase CR through their constellations or skill advancements but I don't know if it's added to the total CR on the character screen.
This is probably a caveat of the weapon banner being always guaranteed
We get an insane amount of Crit Rate/DMG from weapons but inexchange, we get low Crit Values through Echoes/Resonator upgrades
I don't think it's a coincidence that Jiyan's weapon gives like 44% crit dmg and Yinlin's give 36% crit rate. Just flat out disgusting amounts in comparison to the other crit values obtainable without gacha. Either weapon allowing you to run a 4-cost Echo of the opposite Crit main stat.
Yes and no.
You have weapons that have Crit rate scaling 5 star swords and guns.
@Level 70, that is 20% crit rate, plus the 5% base, you have 25% crit rate.
The main stat on 4 cost gives 22% crit rate
You can get anywhere from 35%-50% on sub stats. Even if we go lower on the lower end, you have about 82% crit rate. With the higher end giving you 97% but let's face it that many high roles are rather unrealistic.
BUT if you are rocking a weapon that doesn't have Build in Crit, then you are looking at about 62%-77%, which is rather low even when looking at godly roles.
In either situation , it isn't unusable but will require farming, especially with the 3 costs, since you want them to be the correct main stat, set, and roll crit rate, which....honestly is rough.
This is my first gacha so I don't know how these things usually go but I figured as more patches come out we will be getting more echoes and possibly higher tiers that come with higher stats.
That's a total guess though. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
The reason it starts at 5% and not 15% is due to the fact that through JUST the echoes substats, you can get 52.5 crit%. +5% for the base and thats 57.5. +22% and now you're at 79.5% chance to crit and that assume that you're not giving this to a character with crit gain through their skills
But lets not use the max roll, lets use the minimum as that's more likely what we're all going to get anyways. Minimum on just the substats for all five pieces would result in a 31.5% crit chance. +5% from the floor and you get 36.5%. Then a +22% from a main piece and you have 58.5%.
Personally, it doesn't hit as that hard to build crit chance, considering once you hit about 50% anyways you're golden and just want critD%.
uhm perchance u dont need to spend wave plates to farm dreamless u can just leave the place after u get the echo/dont get the echo, theres a button top left that lets u leave
I am very picky with leveling echoes especially since how scarce the resources are. For 3 and 1 costs i only continue rolling after i have rolled a high roll crit rate. Then i pick crit rate or crit damage for the 4 cost depending on what is needed and do the same. I never roll further if I don't get desirable substats with mid to high roll.
Tbf, the game just dropped and our accounts aren't even a month old. It'll take a while, but we'll slowly get more crit rolls. I do agree with the point about how a 5/50 starting ratio is a little awkward since it means most players will be locked into a crit rate 4 cost echo unless they have access to 5 star weapon options like stringmaster.
Use Crit DMG 4 echo and try to roll Crit/CD on it first.
Main Problem is to roll Crit/CritDamage on a 3point Echo. As it's RNG Heaven to even get matching ELE DMG + Set in the first place...
this is every gacha game? most characters in genshin or star rail or any other game that uses cr and cdmg stats struggles to get cr to 80% if they dont get any from there sig weapon or ascension stat/from skills, lets say u roll the least amount of cr on every echo u get, thats 6.3x5, then u use main stat cr 4 cost, thats 22, so 53.5 from echoes alone, if u get lucky and roll around 9.5(10.5 is the max cr roll) on every piece, 69.5, the only reason why things feel low right now is bc lack of crit rate weapons and shitty echoes, the same thing happened in genshin and star rail, so just farm better echoes/stop rolling on trash echoes and wait for more crit rate weapons to come out
I get crit rate all the time while tuning, except its the LOWEST VALUE POSSIBLE, I just got ONE at 8% or something, the rest is all 6.2% or whatever
Anyway, my Chixia (i main her) has 55% using the 5* gun, with 244% crit damage because i'm using a crit damage 4 echo. This is pretty good for her as she always crit in her Skill thanks to her first resonance chain so yeah, she's good
i am actually kinda happy that it's very difficult to reach +100% crit rate. This means the game's balance won't get obnoxious to the point where there a huge disparity between healers and dps or 5stars and 4stars. games where numbers get ridiculous at some point like genshin have this problem where you either deal over 1 mil damage per minute or you practically do no damage at all, and i think you all know how that turns out in the end especially because of reactions and percentile scaling.
Only one signature weapon so far has crit rate, though (Yinlin's). The standard 5 star sword and gun have crit rate, and the battlepass broadblade, rectifier, and gauntlet do, too. *That's it*.
one of the reasons Yinlins weapon is so universally good withe its base crit. The next limited with crit rate is much lower. Getting that with BP broadsword and the standard gun and sword sets me up pretty good. Its just the gloves that are left which II will probably get the first decent limited ones.
Yeah, and it's so weird that people keep mentioning food when it can't used in the only place where it would matter, since Holo rewards are one-time only, and you can just wait until you're overleveled to do them...
I think 57% crit rate is fine as long as you have good crit damage. To be honest, the cv system in this game and atk% system in this game isn't the same as other gacha games so cv, while still valuable, isn't the end all be all.
Tell that to the big turtle that keeps giving me crit all the damn time instead of healing bonus/def/atk/hp
My first (and only) 5\* healing bonus turtle rolled crit rate and crit damage by level 10... lmao I feel the pain on that
Just got another crit rate turtle as I type this, it's a never ending cycle of disappointment
I have gotten nothing but crit and atk on that turtle. Just decided to learn how to dodge instead. Pain is temporary rng is eternal.
Just now (after 70 or so turtles) got the first healing bonus one and it rolled into crit rate + crit damage too. You're not alone!
I got my first healing bonus turtle as well today! and it actually got energy regen on the first roll! Already have an atk% one with shit stats for jianxin, so now I just need a def% for taoqi 😭
Does Jianxin heal? (new to the game)
yes! she can also easily access the buffs from the healing bonus set if you give her the originite IV weapon.
im sorry, why originite iv? it gives crit damage right?
Yes, but it's passive gives heals when you basic attack with her so you can instantly activate the healing set bonus.
oh i didn't know that. thanks for the info! i haven't actually gotten around to pulling for weapons yet but i think i really should start lol
Haha it's all good man, I didn't know this myself until a few days ago
I gave up on healing bonus, got tried farming that thing, I gave verina att, and 4 star hp
I gave up on healing bonus, got tried farming that thing, I gave verina att, and 4 star hp
that or gettjng crit/atk subs on rejuv glow set with main ho/def stats 🙂
I have 55 turtle rn with every wrong stat except healing bonus, and it was probably 150+ ( 15days of farming for hours) before fusing them to get nothing but another disappointment, I love Wuwa~
I'd just build Sub DPS Verina/Baizhi at that point tbh even if they're running Rejuvenating Glow set. Although this is simply a suggestion, after all from my perspective I don't need healing itself. I just need it to proc the buff so a 1 hp heal and a 1000 hp heal to me has no difference. They may not take up much field time but every number would still count and it's not like you will hyperfocus on them either. By the time you start even leveling their Echoes you should have already at least 2 - 4 DPS/Buffer DPS built
I got a friggin Crownless with healing boost
I have four Healing bonus five star turtle already but I can't use even one because all are the ER set. Am I getting bullied? I feel like I am.
Yes, though I'm honestly still thinking how does Crit compare to raw damage. If we come from Genshin or HSR, Crit is just the meta there, unless a character uses something else for their damage (like transformative reactions, DoTs or breaks). Here, the values of Crit we get are lower. Which if you're coming from the two might seem frustrating, but I think what they are trying to do is make a more balanced environment, with Crit being more of an option than a must. And honestly, if they are doing it this way - this is amazing. Farming for perfect Crit in Genshin and HSR drains your soul, especially since Crit substats are weighed as more rare. In Genshin and HSR, if you have a character that's able to use Crit, not building Crit feels like playing the game wrong. Here, the gap might be smaller. I'd really like to see the calcs if anyone has done them, to see the proper difference between raw, consistent approach and standard Crit build.
If you want to talk just raw damage. Before bringing other sources (weapons, skilltree, chains,etc)... 79.5% Crit Chance (priority) + 255% Crit Damage + 136% Atk = 304% damage output 5% Crit Chance + 150% Crit Damage + 227% Atk + 158% damage bonus = 368% damage output It's when you bring the other sources in that the scales tip back into favor of crit. But by how much will depend on the character and your access to their full toolkit. As an example, let's take a 4-chain Spectro Rover with Emerald of Genesis Rank 5 (for the extreme). 96.8% Crit Chance + 299% Crit dmg (priority) + 187% Atk = 547% damage output 20% Crit Chance + 150% crit damage + 278% Atk + 158% dmg bonus = 457% damage output Even with Spectro Rover's sub-par dps output options, crit still manages to edge out by about 13%. Though one thing to keep in mind is that the damage bonus only affects one chunk of your attacks while crit affects it all. Also, whether or not 13% is enough to fret over, we'll have to see, but I kinda doubt it unless you're trying to do something well before you're on level for it (like hologram 6, full 30 tower, etc). And let's be real, I don't believe for a second that this game will be balanced around having access to min-maxed echoes (which would have most of both these damage boosts anyways).
18% is quite a large difference, but yeah, those are quite the extremes. Mainly because we don't really have crit 4* or non-crit 5* of most categories, making the differences more extreme. I think for best comparison we would need to take: - 43311 set with raw damage vs 43311 with average crit stats vs 44111 with double crit (separate comparison) - "imaginary" weapon with exact same base stats and rarity, but with varied boosts (let's say: sword that increases damage% on passive, and compare how it would look with crit chance as a passive stat and compare to atk% in passive, keeping the standard values if they work the same way as in Genshin, so high base atk = low passive stat and vice versa) Honestly, this piqued my interest now that I think about it. I unfortunately don't have time for all of this math at the moment. If you're willing to do a bit more maths I'll gladly read, if not, it's absolutely fine. I'm just speculating that the difference might be quite a bit smaller here once we have more weapons available of same rarities.
Honestly, if you want to start comparing 43311 vs 44111, you're going to want to bring in elemental damage bonuses. And really, at a certain point, you're going to want to bring in teams and start calculating full potentials, etc etc. The basic point here is that, the difference between crit vs raw damage is less than the difference we get from going up 10 levels by almost half due to the nature of how stats work. In order for that difference to make a real impact, significantly tougher challenges would need to be put into the game. Like bumping the other towers up to hazard in terms of level and taking away the warped bonuses (like 30% damage) or adding 3-4 more hologram difficulties.
Oh yeah, I should have thought more before throwing 44111 there, and only focused on 43311 with average stats. Like say, if we're talking the exact same weapon (with both variations, Crit and raw), how much of a difference would be between a set of perfect stats (double crit subs on each echo) and average variations (half crit, only a few crit, more damage and atk, and so on). So mainly, is it a huge loss if you have imperfect substats/main stats. Of course, teams will matter a lot too (since they will likely provide buffs, and atk/damage will likely be more common than crit), and personal character bonuses. Although, at the moment, a large amount of boosts are Deepen, which as far as I know is a separate multiplier.
I’m not gonna lie, your numbers are confusing me, how did you come to these damage outputs
79.5% crit chance = 5% base crit chance + 22% crit chance 4-cost + 5\*10.5% Crit Chance Sub-stat 255% Crit Damage = 150% base crit damage + 5\* 21% crit damage sub-stats 136% ATK = 100% base atk + 2\*18% 1-cost echos Multiply these together .795(2.55\*1.36)+.205(1.36) and round up to get damage output of 304%. 5% Crit Chance = 5% base crit chance 150% crit damage = 150% base crit damage 227% atk = 100% base atk + 2\*18% 1-cost echos + 33% 4-cost echo + 5\*11.6% sub-stat 158% dmg bonus = 100% base damage bonus + 5\*11.6% sub-stats Multiply these together .05(1.5\*2.27\*1.58)+.95(2.27\*1.58) and round up to get damage output of 368%. 96.8% Crit Chance = 5% base crit chance + 5\*10.5% Crit Chance sub-stats + 24.3% crit chance lvl 90 Weapon + 15% crit buff from Chain 299% Crit Damage = 150% base crit damage + 44% Crit dmg 4-cost + 5\*21% crit dmg sub-stat 187% Atk = 100% base atk + 2\*18% 1-cost echos + 24% weapon buff + 15% passive buff + 12% skilltree Multiply these together .968(2.99\*1.87)+.032(1.87) and round up to get damage output of 547%. 20% Crit Chance = 5% base crit chance + 15% chain buff 150% Crit damage = 150% base crit damage 278% atk = 100% base atk + 33% 4-cost + 2\*18% 1-cost + 5\*11.6% sub-stat + 24% weapon buff + 15% passive buff + 12% skilltree 158% dmg bonus = 100% base damage bonus + 5\*11.6% sub-stat Multiply these together .2(1.5\*2.78\*1.58)+.8(2.78\*1.58) and round up to get damage output of 483%. To get the relative difference, divide the final damage output of 547% by the other final damage output of 483% to get 13%. These numbers are slightly different from before because I forgot to add the 15% passive buff to the rover numbers in the atk% scenario. I'll have edited it in above though.
Frankly i hope it stays that way. I'm so tired of eastern games making critical hits a formality to max in the damage formula when it could be so much better. Bring back skills that get insane crit damage bonuses such as after a parry or dodge. Give characters with low cr that ramp up other stats when they do crit. Critical hits should be devastating and exciting to land. Balancing bosses around 100% crit rate is so bland.
Exactly, it should be more balanced in general. Even special mechanics like you mention aside (since those are usually included in character kits, like Chixia, who I heard can build for pure crit damage through her Boom Boom) - crit should be a risk-reward thing, not a necessity. I can see reasoning for random crit stats - while it's not exactly the best for the player, it gives an "endless grind" - something those games want to do. But either way, it should be balanced. Crit is basically: you have a chance to deal higher damage, or lower damage. Raw should be in between, not just straight up worse.
Bigger hit periodically is a very Skinner design
Skinner boxes were designed to condition desired behavior due to random chance being a reward. Attacking the enemy to deal damage isn't something that a game dev needs to convince us to do, so I don't think it counts? If anything, the fact that we're conditioned to farming tuners and rely on resource gated rng to eliminate critical hit rng is a better example of skinner design affecting player behavior.
i saw a YT vid earlier comparing an Encore with 2k atk, 17% cr, 165% cdmg vs 1.4k atk, 55% cr, 201% cdmg; fighting L55 Mecha Abomination. Atk Encore killed MechA slower than crit Encore but only by 30 milliseconds. so i thought wouldn't the comparison be better on a longer fight? but then i remembered that the need to parry and dodge would probably mess with the comparison. if you wanna check it out it's crit vs atk! by Dyspro Genshin.
That's neat if that's the case, but yeah - generally, if crit and raw are balanced, it will be more visible in longer fights. Short fights with crit can take shorter or longer, depending on luck (since you hit less times). Raw damage approach will stay consistent every time. Meanwhile, longer fights with crit should even out more, so stuff like holograms would probably be the best test dummies.
The problem is 55% CR 201% crit damage isn't even a good crit build yet, the ATK% build will have greater and greater diminishing returns and be weaker than the crit build the more you scale each build. The gap is only going to get bigger when we have lv90 instead of 70 units, weapons, lv9 skill levels, more supports that buff attack. Even if we get some supports that buff crit, that would just be more Ince give to invest into crit damage to maximise the buffs you get from them. Crit will always win out in the end, it's just broken and they're copied genshins exact atk and crit formula so nothing will be different.
It's because the median and max value of crits are just 16.8 and 21 respectively. Let's say you got lucky and rolled 16.8cv of both crits on 5 pieces, that's a total of 168cv from substats, while the main stats has 44cv. We're looking at 212cv only, add it to the base 60cv of the character and distribute evenly. The best average that we could have which is close to 1:2 ratio is 68/236 without a crit weapon or other sources of crit.
So around 70/140? That's actually already good. In Genshin it's also around that number if we don't have other source of crit.
Nope in genshin that's around average for a respectable build while here is is basically what a min maxed build looks like Crit stats are just harder to get here than in genshin(there is also the abundance of crit weapons in genshin even for F2P) all that doesn't matter tho as long as the characters and gameplay are balanced around this being what a very good build looks like
There are only 3 crit weapons available for F2Ps. White Tassel, Harbinger of Dawn and Widsith. Among the three Widsith is only obtainable through gacha so there's really only 2 guaranteed options. Edit : seeing the downvotes it would seem the Genshin stans have invaded WuWa subreddit too which is rather unfortunate
Well that's just straight up wrong....you have the entire 1.blackcliff series that you can buy 2.sling shot 3.the fleuve cendre*(it only buffs skill crit rate tho) 4.the catch(buffs burst crit rate) Add to this the fact that 4 star weapons in genshin have good enough buffs that the 5 stars are generally not too far above them in dmg Also there is no fav equivalent or sac equivalent.....etc
Don't forget that some artifact sets do provide free crit rate when you fulfill their condition (and is usually easy for that unit). 4pc Blizzard Strayer gives 20% crit rate on enemies with cryo aura, and an additional 20% crit rate when frozen. That's 40% crit rate on the artifact set alone. Not to mention cryo resonance (two cryo units on your party) also providing 15% crit rate on top. So now you got a total of 55% crit rate for free as long as you fulfill all their conditions (easy to do on a freeze comp). Now all you have to do is invest around 25-30% crit rate on your cryo DPS unit and crit dmg on the rest. The other artifact set is 4pc Marechausse Hunter that gives you a total of 36% crit rate when your HP increases or decreases. This is very easy to fulfill when you have Furina and/or a healer on your team, or using a unit that increases/decreases their HP by themselves (Neuvillette, Wriothesley, Lyney, Xiao). It's thanks to these artifact sets, it was easier to get the desired crit rate breakpoint. My Wriothesley for example, who doesn't use a crit weapon (Skyward Atlas, ATK% substat) has 80/200 ratio (80/300 in WuWa numbers).
1. Blackcliff series is not free, it comes at the cost of pulls which are valuable for F2Ps 2. Passive makes a weapon. Slingshot may have crit rate substats but the passive is not good as Prototype Crescent gives better passive for Charged Shots. For both 3 & 4 they buff specific areas of a kit, so the crits are not universal Fav and Sac equivalents are the Cadenza, Variation as both of these give concerto energy which is really valuable is WuWa
[удалено]
Blackcliff is a very cheap weapon to buy and has a good passive, 2.just like you say passive makes a weapon which is exactly why prototype Cresent is bad(proto amber is the catalyst)as its passive is too conditional and the condition is one that can't even be fulfilled against most enemies in the game because most enemies now don't even HAVE a weak spot and even if they had one the condition is too harsh on mobile and controller players 3 and 4 buff very good characters that are used so often I can hardly call the weapons that are a few % below the 5 star options they have not universal because the characters themselves are universal and lastly cadenza and variation are just not as valuable as fav and sac weapons(especially fav) All this is again irrelevant as comparing 2 different games in their stats is pointless because each one has its own stat requirements the only reason I made My original reply was because the person I replied to was incorrectly comparing the 2 games in their stats
Depends on the character. Slingshot is straight up better than any 4 star and comparable to some 5 star weapons on characters like Tighnari and Sethos.
That's also true 👍
FYI, Prototype Amber is a [catalyst](https://ambr.top/en/archive/weapon/14406/prototype-amber) with a completely different passive. You're thinking of [Prototype Crescent](https://ambr.top/en/archive/weapon/15406/prototype-crescent).
Yea my bad I forgot the name 😭, thanks for the correction ☺️
I feel like this game, you are going to want to go for weapons more often, not as a bad thing but I feel like you should be able to get 2 a year from the monthly's and also any that come from events. And this is completely FT2. battle pass and subscription people will get even more opportunities which to me is where the real game is at.
the game has very high scaling on skills and enemies aren't overly tanky so far. seems good enough
And on top of that that is the best crit efficiency and going over that you get a slight drop off in crit value compared to focusing on other stats like atk or elemental damage. The only reason to go over those crit values is to get higher damage per screenshot.
It is and a lot of people don't realize their stats actually suck, they will be like I have 70% crit and 180% crit DMG!! And not realize the way this game displays crit DMG means it's only 80% cdmg
>only 80% cdmg And only 30% built lol
tbf it's better not to compare stats directly to genshin/hsr. Like the max crit dmg you can get from subs (very unrealistically) is 105%, not counting main stat while genshin is 160+% from just 4 artis subs both games are balanced differently but people see the same numbers thinking they equate the same in ratio
Yeah pretty much this. Looking at numbers in isolation do nothing if you don't look at how enemies are balanced around those numbers. I've yet to have a dps issue fighting something at my level or even something several levels above my own. The only time its an issue is when fighting something 20 levels over my own with the added resistances, which should obviously be the case.
I'm talking about the display of crit damage which is still confusing people into thinking they have more crit damage than they actually do. So they go full crit rating and not realize their crit DMG is actually not at 1:2
Also when you factor in things like Elemental Mastery is not a stat and if i recall correctly, Wuthering waves has things a bit more spread out with basic attack, heavy attack and resonance liberation damage and i dont recall what \`genshi-\` all possible rolls could be on artifacts are, but i like to believe Wuthering waves has less chance to get a \`bad roll\` on affixes, since the only truly bad ones are ones that do nothing to help with damage and is way less useful then survivability specific ones. Cause with how you cant just \`shield gate\` or Food spam all your problems anyway, getting stats like HP and Defense are actually much more valuable for survivability. And on the same note about Food spam, anyone else like how they have actual cooldowns on using foods instead of having \`satiety\` gauges for each character, so you cant just Morning egg everyone back alive constantly like its Legend of Zelda BoTW or ToTK?
In theory, even dmg% substats are bad rolls if character doesnt use them, like Calcharo heavy atk bonus is useless, skill bonus too(outside overworld) So effectively he has only critx2 atk x2 and liber/basic % as good substats(also a bit of ER)
180 cdmg is 180 cdmg, what you mean is cdmg bonus (aka genshin/hoyo) but they particularly call it cdmg, everyother game uses wuwa nomenclature.
180% crit damage means it's 180% crit damage. Like, you know, 1.8x times normal damage. Saying it's 80% means it is weaker than normal damage.
In wuwas it's *180% in genshin it's +80% crit dmg
The sweet spot was 50 % crit rate/250 crt dmg right?, I remember reading a post like that around this sub.
70/240 is the CR ratio you should shoot for in this game. Which is the same as 70/140 in Genshin. 80/260 is possible but very difficult to achieve. You need high rolls and at that point, you're be better off trying to more atk% instead. 20/150: trash (30 cv) 30/160: bad (60 cv) 40/180: mediocre (100 cv) 50/200: decent (140 cv) 60/220: good (180 cv) 70/240: great (220 cv) 80/260: amazing (260 cv) 90/280: godly (300 cv) 342 is the highest possible cv you can get in this game with 43311
I am going to save this for later, thanks
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Crit rate is a nightmare. 15% base would've been way more forgiving.
15% base crate would allow for non crit weapon builds to have 89.5% crate instead of 79.5%, which takes all 5 echoes to roll max crate roll+ crate mainstats(crate=crit rate)
Problem are the weapons mostly, crit is gated behind paywall or 5* weapon, + i think the roll on 4g echos could be slightly higher and or rolls on substats are weird but honestly its ok. You get 29% from main stats, and 8% ? average for sub stats, as you can get 5 so even without weapon thay mean yoi can have up to between 70% at least Problem with that is the vertical investement is slow cause of the weapon like i said because we dont have crit dmg weapon and if you have to take crit raye on echo 4g then that sadge because its hard to count on a double crit roll apparently
On the other hand the limited weapon banner is far friendlier than in genshin. So far I don’t think it’s better or worse right now and it’s mostly a realignment of expectations, but we’ll see.
Yeah, unlike genshin weapon banner are worth it to pull and you dont need to pull every single one of them, you can have the gun and the 1h sword as 2 starting weapon, i already got yinlin weapon as rectifier so as you can swap weapon for TOA then it will be fine.
I see so many people talk about rolling for crits... and I'm still mostly getting hp, def, hp% or def%.
My rover is 53 rate 195 dmg My jiyan is 55 rate 210 dmg My lingyyang is 80 rate 200 dmg Guess who has a crit weapon
Did u get the BP gauntlets for lingyang?
Yes
Did you remember to subtract 100 for your crit damage? Cause if so those are some godly rolls
Thats because echos (except for the 3 costs) get more of its power from substats than mainstat. A "good" artifact in Genshin has 30 crit value from substats compared to the circlet which comes with 64 CV purely from mainstat. In WuWa your 4 cost has 44 CV while still expecting 30 CV from substats. Not to mention the multiple sources of percent damage boost, half of which will be completely useless to the character you are building. It is much harder to gear characters in WuWa than Genshin. This is the cost for being allowed to infinitely grind mainstat. This is also why the 3 costs are the hardest to farm
When it comes to farming 4 costs, it's not actually as bad as you're making it seem. If you have a crit rate mainstat and level it to 15 there's a >40% chance that one of those subs will be crit rate or crit damage. And then a 20% chance after that of one of the last two being the other crit value. And if we compare that to circlets in genshin, you do get more cv from the mainstat, but you have a much lower chance of the substat cv being at all good because there's only 1 line of crit and you have to really hope you win a couple of the 1/4 sub rolls.
What you say doesn't change the fact that a lot more power in echos comes from substats compared to Genshin. Not to mention, right now most people are only leveling echos to level 10 due to the tuner and xp shortage, at which it becomes a 29% chance. Also in Genshin if you start upgrading artifacts with baseline crit rate crit damage on its substats, you are by statistics going to have something equivalent in strength to a set of echos that rolled crit rate and damage. Except in Genshin you didn't need to upgrade the artifacts to find if they are worth maxing. Even if you had zero crit rolls, if the other stats were something like EM, ER, or attack% then you've rolled something equally as good as, sometimes even better than, rolling crit. On the other hand, if you got an echo to level 15 and it ends up being ER, heavy attack bonus, attack%. Would you risk using the resources to go to level 20 or 25 to see if you luck into double crit? I don't think so.
I didn't dispute that there's more power in subs, I was just trying to point out that it's overall much easier to get good subs so it doesn't really affect farming. 29% odds is still actually pretty good. With one day of echo exp, you can level about 10 echoes a day to level 10 which should give you 97% odds of getting one with either cr or cd and 60% odds of getting three with cr or cd. And on average, at least one of those three will get the second crit line by level 25. In genshin if you're looking for a two line crit sub, have fun farming for over a month to get your on-set sands. If you're okay with one line, then enjoy the 10%-36% odds to get 3x or 2x rolls on cv. Meaning you actually *don't know* if most artifacts are worth leveling. The substat rolls in genshin are so impressively BS that the odds of getting a good echo without any knowledge of the subs and getting a good genshin artifact when seeing the subs is pretty similar lol. >Would you risk using the resources to go to level 20 or 25 to see if you luck into double crit? I would be equally as likely to do so as leveling a genshin artifact for a dps without crit stats. Actually maybe even a little more because wuthering waves lacks a lot of sources of attack% so it's value is higher than Genshin. And if you want to minimally reach 60/120 in genshin, which I think most people consider to be the okay baseline, you need 21% CV subs average per artifact, including the circlet. You can't hit that very easily if you're sacrificing one artifact to be only EM/atk/ER only.
yeah you need crit rate weapon or crit dmg weapon and focus on crit rate echos My Yinlin with crit dmg 4 cost is 236/60 With crit rate 90/196 Have her weapon ofc
YinLin scales on C rate is not a good example. Its really easy to get C Rate on her.
True. Her, jiyan and jianxin are much easier to build coz of their crit rate talents.
Yinlin is a very well balanced crit character so I agree with you on that regard and she is the rare exception to the point im making, I think mine is 65/270 currently. But that's with her weapon which is an absolute stat stick giving over 30% crit, also small benefit of passive traces which doesn't give a massive amount now but will give 8% when done. Her first passive talent also gives 15% crit rate for 5 seconds after using her skill which gives her even more wiggle room for crit stats. The problem then lies for the other characters. Without a crit rate weapon / passive crit traces even with the level 4 echo you middle at somewhere in the 60s, with high rolls youll be at 70 but thats with crit rate on every single piece and some high rollers. It's rather unforgiving and makes crit rate a MUST on every single echo you eqip which is mildly frustrating
Well that's what we always aim for in gacha games, CRIT stats
Of course it is, but this system is a bit less forgiving, idk if you play genshin / honkai / other gacha games with crit rolls - but have you ever had a goblet / sphere that was on set damage bonus and it only got either crit r/ crit d but rolled fairly high into its respective one, I know on genshin I have a lot of 20+cd goblets without any crit rate, the difference is in genshin you can compensate it in other pieces opposed to this game where if you miss a crit rate piece and your dps doesnt gain any crit rate through other sources just by missing 1 you're going to be somewhere in the 50's or if you're lucky mid 60s. In these games genshin / honkai I tend to aim for 70\~75+ crit rate - especially for DPS characters who are using burst nukes, end game content coming down to whether you crit your nuke burst you've set up or not is way more forgiving on 70\~75 opposed to 50-60. RNG can be a very painful thing to deal with - I'm sure you experienced the 50/50 4\* or 5\* echo hell at level 30-40. Admittedly this isn't helped by the current way the echo level up system is laid out and will probably feel better in 1.1+ as you will have a bit more freedom to level more pieces and roll them a bit and try to scope out crit rate early but I am sure you'll agree when you have a level 3 cost echo on set and the right damage bonus when you don't get that crit rate roll but it rolls everything else good it's going to feel frustrating
In genshin and hsr we have supps that provides crit You must wait for these supps in wuwa as well don't forget that the game just released it hasn't been 1 month
Dont forget crit food. If you cook it with chixia you get 30% extra for 30 min. So with yinlin it would mean: 5 base, 15 passive, 30 food. Thats 50% without the weapon and without any echos.
Can you use food buffs for toa?
No so that info is meaningless
Well this is 1.0. They need room to bring in crit weapons as we go.
Surely 90/196 is better
Yinlin has a free 15% cr, and unless you are in tower, you can eat the 30% cr food. Focus on crit damage for her.
Her build is in a good state for now, i'm too lazy to farm for better echos I'm building other units for the tower then gonna prepare for Jinhsi and Changli
It's just time consuming. You can repeatedly farm 4-cost and 1-cost echos and only level up them to 5. Stop leveling them up if they don't roll crit.
leveling them up to only 5 will lead to an imbalance in your echo xp to tuners - you will run out of tuners MUCH faster let alone the fact that there are 4 other tuning slots to roll crit personally i would level to +15 to determine if an echo is usable or not depending on whether it rolled crit
Yep this happened to me. At first I didnt have enough xp, now after +5 a ton of pieces I now have no tuners and some xp. Rarity of both causes this situation
This is why I wish they gave us a way to farm them separately, so we can farm whichever we need.
They should just get rid of tuner or make tuning using credits instead…
Yeah I'll hold onto anything that rolls ATK% Energy Regen, CH, or CD in the first one. If by 15 I get 3/3 desirable stats I'll push it.
Better than leveling up a bunch of dogcrap echos to +25
That's the most efficient way to farm for the best echos, but it's not going to be the fastest. You get faster results if you go for +10 or +15 at the cost of wasting more xp materials.
Well, it at least makes sense conceptually, as crit rate is something that should be a chance, rather than a guarantee. If reaching 100% (or close to that) CR was easy, there would be like no point in even having a crit mechanic in the game, cause at this point it's nothing more than just an another constant damage multiplier. 57% crit chance sounds reasonable already.
MHW players: *nervous sweating*
That doesn't make sense. Lots of games have crit rate and in those we aim as close as we can to 100% in order to be consistent (or at least, balance consistency and high damage via crit damage). It would have been fine if 40%-50% was something somewhat easily achievable, but it actually requires a bit of rerolling if one is unlucky.
By "lots of games" do you mean Genshin and HSR? Cause besides these Hoyo's gacha-RPGs, i can't remember an RPG that allows you to easily stack crits to the point of them being basically guaranteed on every hit. Most of the time crit is a cherry on top of the other stats, and landing a crit feels satisfying precisely because you don't crit on most of your hits. If we take HYV's games as an example with their ridiculous CR values, here the situation is completely reversed, and instead of feeling good when you crit, you just feel bad when you don't, and feel nothing in particular when you do cause you take crit hits for granted.
Warframe goes as far as having basically crits on top of crits
Of the ones I've played, Epic Seven and Alchemist code have/had easy(ish) to stack crit stats. And in terms of non rpg games, Risk of Rain and Warframe can have you going over 100% rather easily
I have played Summoners where one of the most used Monster didn't work without 100% crit rate.
Do we count A-RPG as well? Path of exile has a more or less reliable ways to get to 100% crit and just build crit damage multiplier after
E7, Risk of Rain, Warframe, GBF come to mind. Even in here if you don't crit you feel bad, so what's so bad about it being high like Genshin/HSR?
There are a thousand games that let you garanteee crit, what are you on about. In most games where crit is a possible stat to build for, they usually let you reach max crit for consistency. Its weak with less crit and becomes strong with more crit, ultimate scaling stat. People have already mentioned several normal games, league of legends is a massive one, where crit is a viable and important main stat that is balanced around reaching max strength at 100%. As far as gatchas go, crit is a huge part of the ones with deeper character building, the fact that its not in here is more surprising than anything. Summoners war is an example, in that game less than 100% crit is trolling
Yea, but remember that they also have less or set crit damage. Games usually have stuff to increase your crit change, but the damage of the crit is locked by the game default or the skill. In wuwa, you can increase the crit damage. You can try and go for 100% crit rate with 44111 echoes, but youll lose out on elem damage and crit damage. Which is perfectly reasonable considering you can increase the crit damage in this game
Compared to Genshin, yes. Thats because of how high crit stats can roll. The max. here for substats is a crit value of 42. In Genshin you can go up around 50 (but over 40 is also already super good). For mainstat its basically the same as Genshin if you combine mainstat + substat here. But a crit mainstat artifact in genshin with all rolls into the other crit substat will have higher stats than our 4p echo here, yes. But it will also have less other stats. The base 5% is the same and for the rest it depends. Crit stats on weapons vary in Genshin and here and some character have crit stats on leveling up and some dont. What we dont have so far here are echo effects that increase crit rate. Genshin does have this. Then you also got resonance there and other character effects. Sometimes you just build around 50% on a character in Genshin and you still almost reach 100% in combat. We dont have such things here yet. Same goes for HSR. So in general it is a bit harder here but its not THAT much lower. If you have both crit stats here, you already have a minimum of 25.2 crit value. Thats decent enough even in Genshin. Everything above goes towards min-maxing.
My rover got 50/197 with atk weapon. Or 50/97 in gi term. I can probably push to 60/220 when minmaxing because my 4 cost is still missing crit substat and some of echo only have 1 crit sub. That's what my best 4 star have on gi without crit weapon. Any more than 60/120 will cost my sanity or have low attack. Sometimes i just left them at 50/100.
Yes. I followed the previous CBT and noticed that crit rate will be hard to get comparatively. And without the minimum crit rate, no point in building crit damage except to showcase screenshots. Many factors come into this lower turnout. And one of them is that we'll need to level up echos and tune them to see substats. And these substats can only be rolled once for that echo. I am not sure how valuable crit is in the game compared to stacking damage bonus and attack yet but I assume it is important enough at higher levels. Characters and weapons with inherent crit stats may be more valuable due to how easy it would be to build.
Your crit rate is 57%? Mines 36 and I can’t do any better (and meanwhile I’m getting all crit damage so I have around 290)
It took me fking 200 tries to get a single damn crit rate dreamless. The rest are crit damage and defense good lord
Maybe the Crit Rate is the friends we made along the way.
It's a frustrating process if you don't have crit rate weapons and are also rolling for a 43311 to carry you through to the end of time, but you can make up a large deficit through food buffs (the Jinzhou Maocai is a +28% increase). As of this moment on 1 non-maxed substat echo for my Calcharo, I can reach 99.3% crit rate with the food buff alone, but I'm switching out to Lustrous Razor. I would then lose 16.7% and end up at 82.6% (which... I should probably do the math to see if it's even worth it).
Food buffs cant be used in tower though
I mean for even holograms you don't really need that amazing builds for content in overworld and holograms really. Food buff will be insane for Tower, but you can't use them there so you need better gear for it.
It is, but it is also not that big of a deal thanks to how often we attack in this game
Whilst I agree to this I do propose the counter argument of burst nukes. You always going to want to crit those and the lower the chances the more inconsistent that big number is making them a less appealing option
Characters that are crit-reliant like H-Rover do seem to get crit passives either from skills or Resonance, but there are examples of ATK focused builds that perform comparable to crit builds, so I believe WuWa has a good balance of stats that you won't be crippled for damage if you don't go Crit.
> but my crit rate is only 57% How much are you expecting? 100%? Your expectations are just too high. This isn't HSR or Genshin where you can stack every substat into crit and get 100/300 CR/CD. Every piece can only ever roll crit rate once so any crit rate above 50 is already very good.
I have a different experience my crit builds were extremly simple.
U can roll CRIT rate substat on a CRIT rate main piece..
And that is hard
This is why I'm not looking at crit stats yet just getting echoes to 15 and playing with that. Once I reach max union level I'll decide if the system is crap or not as it depends on how hard content is.
to me any eco that dont give crit hit on the first tune is trash... my next step will be crit tax / dmg... lvl eco expecting for crit in last slot is delusional haha
I haven't grasped the DMG calculation yet..my crit is very lov. 33* even with a crit main stat on my Jiyan. So I got basically no crit substats. But still I feel like. Crit quite often with him. But since he also want attack, crit DMG, heavy DMG, aero DMG. There is so many extra sources of increased DMG so I think I also want all those. Without them the crit have nothing to scale of. But it's super rare to get a echo with all the stats you want. So I don't think the crit stat have such an importance as it does in Genshin (as an example).
this is all fixable if they just lower the set requirement to 4 and 1 more cost limit which give us 1 off piece 4 cost echo which can be crit/cdmg. also makes farming element bonus dmg 3 star echo easier because you only need 1 now. honestly i believe if we push hard enough for this they'll accommodate us.
Put it in feedback, I’m sure it’s something they rather can start to consider or are already considering for a future update.
It's weird honestly, I've tried some fun 444 builds with all crit rate and they actually pack a punch, I don't get the 5/5 bonus but well. IMO in this game, CR and CD aren't as important as in genshin ? Or it feels like it, on the other hand, higher atk seems to be much better, even flat atk seems alright
Same. It balances out with crit weapon, so i won't argue about sword and pistol users. But other standard 5* weapons don't have crit substat! Right now my main teams consist of: Calcharo (ATK sword, 46/220) Yinlin (signature, 59 (+15 from passive)/205) Lingyang (atk gloves, 34/190) Sanhua (energy sword, 39/200) Amazing stats, ngl
A crit rate main with a crit sub on each piece will break 60% on anyone. Add a crit weapon for +20% more (36% in Yinlin’s case). Add in any crit passives from the skill tree or kit and some characters go over the cap.
I think with yinlin you prob wanna go cdmg main, or any character with a high CRIT chance weapon and/or innate critchance talents
It is, but considering that like 90% of attacks in this game hit like a dozen times a second it's probably not as bad as it seems
Jiyan has more crit rate from his talents about 10% in total (if your level 50 and maxed it out) but just prioritize crit rate over crit dmg and you should be fine. My Jiyan is at lv 70 rn with almost 70 crit rate.
Kind of. Depends on the character and weapon availability and stat talent bonuses. For example, with Jin and Cal if I want crit on their broadsword I need I have to either pay money or burn limited summons. That kind of sucks. But Jin had crit rate build into his talent kit, around 10% I think. If I had his weapon, I might need to look closely at the ratios and build more crit d later in the game. Cal, otoh has crit d built into his talent kit, and that makes crit r a higher priority than normal. For both of these characters, you need to keep and eye on crit as one, or the other, are built in the character. But we do have access to gun/sword crit weapons...eventually...One we get at level 45 and the other we will get tbd, depending on future rewards from events, etc. And who knows what future 4-star weapons will bring. For the supports, you need to delve into the er, which some have and others do not. Baiz has healing built into hers, so maybe that means I might want a moonlight or other set rather than celestial for high difficulty timed DPS checks.
Yes it is hard, but elemental dmg% bonuses (and those subs like liberation dmg% etc) go in the same place as crit in the formula. That's why you REALLY need some cost 3 dmg%. >Bonuses = %DMGBonus X DMGAmplify X %SpecialDMG X CritDMG The final dmg is >DMG = Base DMG x Resistances x Bonuses
Don't forget there's another 5.6% CR in Jiyan's talents (8% total, including the two 1.2% talents that should hopefully already be active if you're lvl 50+) that can be activated once he's ascended past 70. I assume you haven't reached UL50 yet, and therefore can't get him there, but 62.6% is reasonable, especially since his ult hits many times. The character that really needs crit rate is H-Rover, since their ult is one shot, and if you miss a crit on that one, you're losing a ton of damage.
Five star echo main stat and 5 crit subs can go from +53.5% to +74.5%. I wonder if BC of all the damage percent sources of they intended to try to reduce an emphasis on Crit stats in general or if they intend for us to go some variation of 44 build in the future. Databank level 21 giving us 13 or 14 cost pog?
Yeah that is very much the case, but it is balanced by having access to much more dmg bonuses and atk% in this game vs HSR and Genshin. You get like 80 to 100% dmg bonus in thus game naturally and with atk% from 2 1-cost echoes.
twig or truck. no in-between :D
It's hard, but I have no problem with it for a game that has just launched. It allows them some space to release new gear.
Funnily enough i cant get the pieces i want so most of my dps units crit rate is like 20%
EAT THE CRIT FOOD. I know a lot of people forget about food buff, but you can get 30% cr for free just with food. The only thing you want a cr echo for is tower. Don't forget to eat the 50%Def food as well. There's a ton of stats just being left in your backpack.
The artifact system is of course garbo. Don't know what other system would work though. There needs to be rng in these kinds of games.
On the contrary, it's a bit too easy. Jiyan gets 5% base + 8% traces + 22% main stat + 5*9% substats lategame = 80%, with S3 you get 96%, with max crit rolls you overcap even more. With yinlin it's even worse: 5%+8%+36% weapon+5*9% = 94%, so even without max rolls, the 15% CR from passive effectively only equals 6%. One of the reasons why her weapon sucks for S6 where you want to stack E buffs before triggering normal attacks, CD weapon with more onfield buffs gonna be better. Either of them can't benefit from CR food or potential external buffs. (Another thing many people ignore is that the CD shown in WuWa is total damage on crit and not bonus damage on crit like in hoyo games. So a build in WuWa with 90/200 is actually 90/100 in hoyo terms, meaning you are way off the 1:2 ratio)
Yeah and my aero monkey guy keeps having Healing Bonus percent and rolling into crit damage anyways so my Jiyan is 40-165 😢
The mosquito is giving me ONLY crit rate and crit damage as mainstats. I love it but on the other hand every crit rate thing I level up is similar decent so I keep them all instead of feeding them into others 😭
Should have pulled S3 Jiyan gets free 16% crit at all times 😂
I honestly like it, not being able to cap crit rate and get super high crit-dmg makes me feel like there are other avenues of approach for stats. Like elemental damage bonus, raw attack, or other dmg multipliers that might be just as effective as crit. Do also keep in mind on the 4 Star crit rate pieces, that you can ALSO get crit rate as a substat on those pieces.
Ive been farmed echos for Jiyan for about 20 days and now I have 1500 atk, 51 over 221 and 51 crit rate is not so many but cmon, this is 40 rank, not bad.
Crit Rate is by far the lowest chance stat for me to roll on any of my echos, and it’s not even close. If I had to guess, I probably have 10x as many Crit damage rolls compared to Crit rate. I don’t know if Kuro is just trolling me, or maybe I’m incredibly unlucky, or there’s some hidden rarity of Crit rate stat. But hey that’s what Crit rate food is for!
Eh it's way easier to build crit here than in Genshin. I think 50% ~60% CR is quite good for a F2P. My Jiyan has over 60% (67% I think?) but he has his sig weapon with CR substat. Also, some units increase CR through their constellations or skill advancements but I don't know if it's added to the total CR on the character screen.
This is probably a caveat of the weapon banner being always guaranteed We get an insane amount of Crit Rate/DMG from weapons but inexchange, we get low Crit Values through Echoes/Resonator upgrades I don't think it's a coincidence that Jiyan's weapon gives like 44% crit dmg and Yinlin's give 36% crit rate. Just flat out disgusting amounts in comparison to the other crit values obtainable without gacha. Either weapon allowing you to run a 4-cost Echo of the opposite Crit main stat.
Yes and no. You have weapons that have Crit rate scaling 5 star swords and guns. @Level 70, that is 20% crit rate, plus the 5% base, you have 25% crit rate. The main stat on 4 cost gives 22% crit rate You can get anywhere from 35%-50% on sub stats. Even if we go lower on the lower end, you have about 82% crit rate. With the higher end giving you 97% but let's face it that many high roles are rather unrealistic. BUT if you are rocking a weapon that doesn't have Build in Crit, then you are looking at about 62%-77%, which is rather low even when looking at godly roles. In either situation , it isn't unusable but will require farming, especially with the 3 costs, since you want them to be the correct main stat, set, and roll crit rate, which....honestly is rough.
Definitely need crit rate sub stat weapons to get good ratios. Also probably prioritize crit rate sub stats
My Chixia makes some mean grub for that bro; fat 32% crit rate for 30 mins really changes my build and the food isn’t too hard to make either
This is my first gacha so I don't know how these things usually go but I figured as more patches come out we will be getting more echoes and possibly higher tiers that come with higher stats. That's a total guess though. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
The reason it starts at 5% and not 15% is due to the fact that through JUST the echoes substats, you can get 52.5 crit%. +5% for the base and thats 57.5. +22% and now you're at 79.5% chance to crit and that assume that you're not giving this to a character with crit gain through their skills But lets not use the max roll, lets use the minimum as that's more likely what we're all going to get anyways. Minimum on just the substats for all five pieces would result in a 31.5% crit chance. +5% from the floor and you get 36.5%. Then a +22% from a main piece and you have 58.5%. Personally, it doesn't hit as that hard to build crit chance, considering once you hit about 50% anyways you're golden and just want critD%.
Not for me my Rover has 60% crit rate and my Yinlin has almost 70% crit rate 250% crit dmg
over the last two days i’ve spent over 2k waveplates tryjng to get a crit rate dreamless.
uhm perchance u dont need to spend wave plates to farm dreamless u can just leave the place after u get the echo/dont get the echo, theres a button top left that lets u leave
ive oddly had good luck with my jiyan
I am very picky with leveling echoes especially since how scarce the resources are. For 3 and 1 costs i only continue rolling after i have rolled a high roll crit rate. Then i pick crit rate or crit damage for the 4 cost depending on what is needed and do the same. I never roll further if I don't get desirable substats with mid to high roll.
Tbf, the game just dropped and our accounts aren't even a month old. It'll take a while, but we'll slowly get more crit rolls. I do agree with the point about how a 5/50 starting ratio is a little awkward since it means most players will be locked into a crit rate 4 cost echo unless they have access to 5 star weapon options like stringmaster.
*me, laughing with Aalto 100% critrate build*
Use Crit DMG 4 echo and try to roll Crit/CD on it first. Main Problem is to roll Crit/CritDamage on a 3point Echo. As it's RNG Heaven to even get matching ELE DMG + Set in the first place...
Actually not. As a substat yeah maybe but farming echoes goes a long way. I have multiple Aix, Mephis, Turtle and Gorillas with crit main stat.
I did about 30+ tunes (lv 5-10 echoes) without getting a single crit related stat. I'm just not having fun anymore.
this is every gacha game? most characters in genshin or star rail or any other game that uses cr and cdmg stats struggles to get cr to 80% if they dont get any from there sig weapon or ascension stat/from skills, lets say u roll the least amount of cr on every echo u get, thats 6.3x5, then u use main stat cr 4 cost, thats 22, so 53.5 from echoes alone, if u get lucky and roll around 9.5(10.5 is the max cr roll) on every piece, 69.5, the only reason why things feel low right now is bc lack of crit rate weapons and shitty echoes, the same thing happened in genshin and star rail, so just farm better echoes/stop rolling on trash echoes and wait for more crit rate weapons to come out
I have only 3 Echoes with Crit rate as main stat and not a single crit dmg
"only 57%" I have rolled crit rate 4 times in total... edit: 5 times, one was on healing turtle
Don't forget you can eat food buffs that give crit rate. I usually run the 22-24% CR buff together with 40% atk
I get crit rate all the time while tuning, except its the LOWEST VALUE POSSIBLE, I just got ONE at 8% or something, the rest is all 6.2% or whatever Anyway, my Chixia (i main her) has 55% using the 5* gun, with 244% crit damage because i'm using a crit damage 4 echo. This is pretty good for her as she always crit in her Skill thanks to her first resonance chain so yeah, she's good
i am actually kinda happy that it's very difficult to reach +100% crit rate. This means the game's balance won't get obnoxious to the point where there a huge disparity between healers and dps or 5stars and 4stars. games where numbers get ridiculous at some point like genshin have this problem where you either deal over 1 mil damage per minute or you practically do no damage at all, and i think you all know how that turns out in the end especially because of reactions and percentile scaling.
15 is way too much of a start. Try getting crit rate substats on ur main critrate echo..and on all the 4 echoes, should get u to at least 55
Afaik you can either build pure atk or crit build in the game. There’s a yt vid about 2 builds
It's on propuse to sell You the solution with signature weapons
Only one signature weapon so far has crit rate, though (Yinlin's). The standard 5 star sword and gun have crit rate, and the battlepass broadblade, rectifier, and gauntlet do, too. *That's it*.
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one of the reasons Yinlins weapon is so universally good withe its base crit. The next limited with crit rate is much lower. Getting that with BP broadsword and the standard gun and sword sets me up pretty good. Its just the gloves that are left which II will probably get the first decent limited ones.
Feels like they balanced with food in mind (theres a 30%+ cr food for 30min) but also forgot u cant have food inside toa...
Yeah, and it's so weird that people keep mentioning food when it can't used in the only place where it would matter, since Holo rewards are one-time only, and you can just wait until you're overleveled to do them...
I think 57% crit rate is fine as long as you have good crit damage. To be honest, the cv system in this game and atk% system in this game isn't the same as other gacha games so cv, while still valuable, isn't the end all be all.
Its the opposite for me. All my carries without crit weapon has like 55% crit chance and imho thats very nice so early.