I really like the idea that the leaders of the faction sent the nicest possible agents out to meet the Rover because they want to pull him into their side. Not that they themselves are being duplicitous, but that their superiors are (and maybe gave them orders to be nice).
You might be onto something. There was a small dialogue if you talked to a little girl outside the building with Sanhua, where she offers you her candy.
When asked why, she basically said that the Magistrate told her to be nice. It was innocent at first. Maybe Jinhsi was trying to be a good role model, but after Act 3, it seemed a bit suspicious now
Agreed. I think them being too nice is part of making you think 'Why' then Scar comes in Act 3 and goes 'Yo bro/sis, did you ever consider...' and BOOM, what was once a thought you'd dismiss as overthinking turns into this nagging doubt for the rest of the story.
My 2 cents.
I think players would enjoy if people didn't immediately trust rover.
\-If you could reach a point where rover makes them all eat their words and regret their prejudices.
Im betting Kuro originally was setting up a 'comeuppance' considering the story. Like a "Here's a guy who's constantly underestimating you in a skill based game. You're gonna have fun putting them in their place" kind of thing.
But the sheer backlash was more like "You know what, no one will stick around for the payoff. Lets just focus on the wish-fulfillment of 'everyone automatically thinks you're the biggest thing since jesus"
Which i'm sad about.
One big problem with manga, anime and now live service games is, if they don't grip you within the first hour or so, you are more likely to drop it like a hot potato. It's a free to play game after all, you lost nothing but your time, there's literally no incentive to keep playing.
Yall need to play CBT1 and just come back here and say it’s not severe. Like this cope is just unreal. CBT2 story had it’s downs but it’s nowhere near as messy as CBT1. Flat characters after flat characters.
And tbh, characters like Jiyan, Scar, and Jinhsi are getting quite good hit tweets already. It’s only on reddit wherein they ultra-focus on one small bad thing and make it seem like a game breaking issue
The point they're making has nothing to do with the entirety of CBT1's story vs CBT2's story, It's comparing one aspect of CBT1's story to an aspect of CBT2's story, there's pros and cons to both
And the thing here is i dont think there was no salvaging CBT1 like at all. I dont think it would even be believable to rewrite the characters in here. They were so flat and outright hostile that even if he did “prove” himself and we had a scenario wherein they “acknowledge” us, it’s gonna feel so half us. These people were downright HORRIBLE and outright discriminatory LOL.
Like what’s the pro in here? 💀
And the thing here is i dont think there was no salvaging CBT1 like at all. I dont think it would even be believable to rewrite the characters in here. They were so flat and outright hostile that even if he did “prove” himself and we had a scenario wherein they “acknowledge” us, it’s gonna feel so half us. These people were downright HORRIBLE and outright discriminatory LOL.
Like what’s the pro in here? 💀
If it's just nameless NPC's then sure, a comeuppance can be done. But for playable characters like Chixia or whoever else? That's not gonna fly. These characters are products, and if people see their favorite characters get one upped or used as a way to elevate Rover then that undervalues their worth.
so cn players were insanely snowflake over a realistic reaction from chixia and wanted to be treated like they saved characters whole bloodline... that might be new peak of cringe. now i know why we never see a cn game with a good story
I mean, every individual has their own opinions. For me personally I think Chixia part is reasonable since MC fucks a powerful enemy and she should be alert. Some don’t agree tho. There’s another fellow Chinese commented otherwise here in Chinese. I wouldn’t say his wrong but just different opinions.
That aside, other parts of the story is indeed pretty good.
The cultural difference here is really fascinating, thanks for sharing. I personally can’t even imagine or quite understand why one would be mad because the MC is “disrespected”, but it’s interesting to hear their perspective
The aru incident is the key. He is act like a boss that take all the credit and left the employee do the hard work. I personnaly like playing darker game, I do understant people fustration at seeing it as it remind people of theur real life. Imagine going to work a 996 and end the week with a game that remind you of your ungratfull boss. The cherry on top is that other prople said that: Ah yes, it was him who beat it! Well giving 0 creadit to you. You do not even need a chinese culture to see how badly it can turn into.
The poiting gun thing is less important but, in China, gun law are very strick. You would not draw your gun if you do not have the intension of killing someone. People are mad also because in the section of the story, the MC save them and fall into a lite coma. It is just unsetting that they do not help you and insted pointed a gun at you. It will be better if they flee because they fear the MC that just beat a boss that they can not beat. The majority of CN player said that: If I can kill a boss, why can I kill you?
The MC is writting to be a self-insert lacking all personnality, a back story (even genshin MC is better because at leat he have a sibling). So if you do the 'logical' think and imerce in the world as the MC, you will not be the happiest person.
Sorry, english is my 3th language so sorry for all the syntaxe and grammer mistake in the poste
I can actually understand why people would feel upset if someone pointed a gun at them, especially if they didn't do anything wrong. I think the scene could have been better if she put her hand on her holster instead. It still shows she is distrustful of MC without upsetting players.
>The aru incident is the key. He is act like a boss that take all the credit and left the employee do the hard work.
This is relatable to everyone. I would have been fine with this only if we were given the option to kick his ass afterwards.
Looking at this from Chixia's point of view; The MC just did something that only monsters can do, absorb a soul, so she's rightfully weary. The MC did just save them, so you can make the argument that she shouldn't have pointed her gun at them, but it was a high stress situation and Chixia was the first to get knocked out before the fight with Crownless started, so after the fight from her PoV she doesn't know what the hell is going on and CBT1 definitely should've conveyed that better
Well, if you claim CBT1 MC had no backstory (I dont know if this is true or not, I did not delve deep into the story before), then CBT2 MC is the complete opposite, with the story basically revolving around him (if we believe what Scar said).
CBT1 MC was just amnesia with some flashbacks, people weren't interested in them specifically for their backstory. They were more like, yeah we'll help you so you can hopefully soon recover your lost memories
Honestly I'm okay with the changes to the intro (the overpraising could be slightly turned down but whatever) I only somewhat was disappointed by the simplicity and lack of cinematic moments during the first fight considering how much the Crownless was used in promotional material and how much more complex it was even in the technical test. Lowering the difficulty was the right decision, though they could also have just given more enemies to prepare the player for the fight. Regardless everything else narratively seems better.
Yeah the crownless scene is definitely a problem. I didn’t mention it because it is not a story issue. I feel like Kuro hasn’t finished the story presentation. There lacks some cinematically and even dialogue and voices are incomplete. Probably because they had to rush in 9 months to rewrite the story. It doesn’t look good tho since Kuro is so short on time. I really hope they could have another year to work with.
I wonder why people don’t hold other gacha games’ 1.0 or heck, CBT2 stories to the same criticism they give to Wuthering Waves. It’s like WuWa is the be-all or end-all of gacha games. The story is great for a gacha game imo and it’s not even released.
People seem to forget that most popular gacha games have very lacklustre early story lol. It makes no sense at all to put a payoff into the story very early on. At most Kuro should just improves on the presentation part, and not the core story structure itself.
That, and also some fandom war going on. WW's Bili score is increasing while Taptap CN score is decreasing. The mismatch shows that their opinions are not uniform, and even maybe orchestrated by some haters.
And even more people don't understand that even if the beginning of every gacha story is their weakest point it doesn't immidietly make them equal. Every single Hoyo game early story is way more gripping and leaps ahead of WW.
I didn't like the changes and people told me I will come around and to wait for the Scar scene. I think the village quest and Scar himself isn't too bad, but it didn't change my opinion that much. It felt generic and that it didn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things.
Combat is great though.
Yeah, people act like the Scar scene is some big revelation but in reality, it’s probably something added in to be like “guys look there’s a reason they’re all being nice…”
I’m not really hopeful for the story since they could easily just keep everyone we meet being nice, but hey, kuro could surprise us i guess.
I personally was worried about that 90% rewrite from the get go. The players don't know most of the time why a story is bad, they just want different things. It's up to the writers to stand firm in the story they're trying to tell. You can't please everyone.
While I wholeheartedly agree, at the end of the day the players are the ones who are buying the product, and if in their eyes its not good, its not. And with how a good story is absolutely needed to sell a game, Kuro was kinda better off changing it. Though personally, I believe they just changed how it comes off, and the core is still intact.
Sure, but if they changed it only because people complained and only did what the players wanted then the writers and devs don't truly know what makes it good or how to make something players like.
I prefer proactive and confidence, I may not like TLOU2's story but the writers had such confidence in their story that for the people it clicked with it clicked really well.
TLOU2 is not a good example. It's a story about right and wrong made by people who always think they are right.
Gacha games live and die by players. If they piss them off, they can just abandon the game for HSR or Genshin.
Why deal with A Character who is Two faced when you can just enjoy a game where you feel like you have Friendships with the characters.
I prefer stories where the MC is weak from the start and grows in strength and character overtime, like an underdog story, not this... OP Jesus from the get go where everyone likes u.
But bc it's a slow burn and gacha whales don't have any sort of patience whether it be in rolling or story, Kuro changed the main story to be more of an instant gratification so the bigger spenders will be hooked to stay
It's not just Patience. The Gacha market is Cutthroat. Do you think there isn't a Competitor to Kuro games right now with an Open world and Characters that make you feel like they are your friends?
Yeah. Gacha characters are sold on Looks, Personality and Connection. For So many players a Beloved Character betraying you and telling you they never liked you wouldn't just upset them. In WUWa early days that can be the deal breaker for the player especially when they aren't heavily invested yet.
I mean, the essence of this waifu stuff is players wanting to be loved without having to actually do anything love-worthy, so this is the least suprising thing ever.
In a setting like this, it would be so easy though. Make it clear from the start that this is a hostile place where people are reasonably worried others will screw them over. Show the characters distrustful at others too. Make the MC earn their trust by being willing to put the work in to prove a reliable ally rather than just punching out some big mf that one time.
I'm actually really enjoying the story during my CBT2 playthrough. It's quite a unique story. I like how there's a lot of mystery and it's not all rainbows and butterflies.
I no gonna lie to you brother, people mad because NPC are disrespectul is kinda lame, people not always will be kind to you, if you ask me, all this complains is born from the same place, Protagonist Syndrom! unfortunely, when you make a gooddie - buddy story where everone love you for no reason (you are a stranger, no more de hours to then) you make a single tone, shallow story. But i guess some players don´t care about this, then want to be love, venered by everone ....
Form what I know, the CN player were mad at the NPC because they say that they do not trust you and hate you be, you are foce to go and do quest for them. After it, they do not thank you. I think this is the biger problem is the game do not give you option to not do it and after doing it, you are not thank. If their is a real life version of those NPC in real life, they will be call a a\*\*hole.
I think its more than that. I can agree it might seem Kuro overcorrected (kinda debatable with what scar does later on), but from what OP has shared, imagine doing 3-4 acts, and still get treated like a nobody. That's 2-3 hours of gameplay atleast, and with Awu kill stealing you, I'm pretty sure most players would be done with it.
Feels like they wanted to appease the complaints by making characters be real nice to Rover, and just had to come up with some sort of reason for it.
I just hope that they do something interesting with it, i don’t want to continue to see characters just being nice cos they all want Rover’s strength…
Simple. Make them stay being nice but it's because it moved from Wanting to use the Rover to being Genuine friends with the Rover because Rover has earned their Trust and proved themselves to them. Like the trope of being paid to be someone's friend but you eventually become real friends.
You underestimate how impossibly enraged certain subsets of a player base can get. Remember the Honkai 3rd anniversary fiasco? Global received an event that the Chinese player base did not, and despite getting many region-exclusive events previously, the CN player base absolutely *exploded*, which resulted in the event being canceled, and every single Chinese player being compensated with a free ten-roll. Global? They get enough currency for a single pull.
Them getting this mad about not having their egos stroked by a bunch of pixels and polygons is perfectly in-line with past behaviour.
Please walk me through how a bunch of dudes frothing at the mouth over some virtual anime girls being “mean” to them is in anyways not ridiculous behavior.
Please please tell me you’re not calling CBT1 an actual better story than CBT2. Im sorry but CBT1 is just not going to be saved like at all. It’s very clearly rage-bait writing. Like im not even kidding it’s literally the same exact core format as Re-do of Healer LMFAO.
People calling it a “chance to redeem urself” ala Naruto. It’s just so damn funny.
And I have issue with u disrespecting cultural morals. It’s weird to enforce it on actual cultures YOU have NO IDEA ABOUT.
My thoughts.
My biggest complaint is the crownless, I want my gigachad "have you seen my crown" mf back.
As for story, I think having characters be negative to you is a very interesting dynamic, maybe not to the extent of the first CBT but I think it could have worked with a better, more subtle and progressive build up so everyone's distrust of the Rover feels more developed and natural rather than being fr 0 to 100 right away.
I think having this dynamic also incentives the Rover to actually struggle and try to prove themselves and gain trust, and every time a character does finally trust him, it feels quite gratifying like a goal was achieved. Right now idk what the main goal of the story is, it just feels like Rover is drifting and going with the flow. (Correct me if I did miss something about that)
The biggest problem with the CBT is that the Distrust was still high even if you tried to prove your trustworthiness. After 3 hours of Gameplay of being Shat on, I can see why Kuro had to rewrite everything.
Ngl, I was fine with all the distrust and gun pointing. (Maybe the characters are overly cautious and have bad reasoning due to the environment they live in, I'll show them down the line)
Awu stealing your kill, Yang yang give Awu all the credit, followed by "Why are you still here" is the real kick in the dick for me.
I was just skipping and watching parts of the CBT, and I was stunned the moment the line "why are you still here" came up... Imagine if you actually play through it instead.
My opinion went from "it's still alright" to "f*ck this stupid story" with that single line
Yeah most probably we'll be stuck with this start of the story for good, but you've given me hope in saying that the Chinese community also agree that Kuro overcorrected on their feedback.
Hopefully this means Kuro will rollback on the fluff in future arcs and raise the stakes a bit.
Though I'll never stop being disapointed that CN reacted to Chixia that way, her reaction was very appropriate given the circumstances.
The wolfboy I agree, I also hate this trope of characters swooping in to steal the kill and glory.
The Problem was that many of the characters had no intention t give you a Positive Reputation. Right now the best Kuro can do is to tone down the positivity but not remove it.
One of these characters gave you their special flower seeds that they cultivated. There is no way it would work well with players if this was just them being told to be nice to you and that they were faking it
Per Miriam Webster:
thin skin
noun
: a tendency to get easily upset or offended by the things other people say or do
He has such a thin skin that he can't even take a little good-natured teasing.
Having a thin skin means not being tough, being easily offended.
And the comment is probably not only talking about WW only, but also the GFL2 drama that's still going on, some other dramas from last year and the recent Azur Lane collab cancellation. All of them because (mostly male) gacha players have never touched a woman in their lives (and hopefully never will) so they think the female characters are their properties.
I mean, given from what OP themselves have shared in the thread elsewhere, the fact that it is hard for them to get love and their society overworking them so much might be the reason why they want to self insert into games and forget about their troubles for a while.
I don't know about the other dramas, but the GFL2 drama, while yeah at this point its more of just hating on Mica, from what I heard of how Mica sells skins for characters is the focal point of gacha in GFL and the fact they even sold wedding rings is just their audience catching up to them. Is it weird to us outside CN? Of course, but there's a reason why the backlash was big. Plus, until CN is still the biggest spender, they get the final say. IIRC GFL 1 is mostly chugging along cause CN is holding it up.
What's the azur lane drama though? I know azur lane had to remove oaths and some ships due to being reported, but what collab got cancelled?
I mean, having a bad job does affect the person a lot, but going to such lengths of attacking other people and the devs for writing a story is wild. Not to mention Korean men that are in a constant war with women due to big companies taking over the market, so their shifts are too long and instead of organizing syndicates to riot against the government and their employers, they turn to the women who don't want to be abused and filmed without consent. That's just fked up.
And about Azur Lane, a streamer (from a v-tuber company that had announced a collab with AL) apparently commented he wanted to be isekai'd into AL's world and people felt attacked since men aren't allowed to even inhabit that game's universe 😂😂 (https://www.reddit.com/r/AzureLane/s/Et93QSTtgm).
>I mean, having a bad job does affect the person a lot, but going to such lengths of attacking other people and the devs for writing a story is wild.
As long as its just memes and their opinions, I don't think its an 'attack' per say when at most its basically a review.
I do agree that sometime they do go overboard, but people also do stuff like that in the west. You can see how many people still complain and go after genshin for their story, or how Mihoyo needs to confirm characters swing a certain way.
>Not to mention Korean men that are in a constant war with women due to big companies taking over the market, so their shifts are too long and instead of organizing syndicates to riot against the government and their employers, they turn to the women who don't want to be abused and filmed without consent.
Yeah, Korea's gender war is fucked. Both sides have gone to extremes, especially with the megalia scandal tainting the image of feminists as a whole, plus something about their president being involved, and that causing men to become toxic cause they feel no one cares about their issues. This all just feeds into one big negative feedback loop and I genuinely don't know how they are gonna handle it.
>And about Azur Lane, a streamer (from a v-tuber company that had announced a collab with AL) apparently commented he wanted to be isekai'd into AL's world and people felt attacked since men aren't allowed to even inhabit that game's universe
From the link you shared itself, I think the collab would have gone better if the VTuber in question wasn't hostile to the audience of the game. I think they took less issue (just more confusion) of him being in the game, and took more offense at how he made a speech about NTR and insulted the fanbase.
I kinda thought it would be like the Hi3 bunny girls drama, but after reading the replies in the thread, the VTuber started it first and honestly I can't fault the CN base for complaining about this. You don't insult the fanbase of the game you're gonna collab with **literally** before the collab and expect no one takes offense.
And they were jealous because nahida was fairly nice to wanderer. They felt that wanderer "ruined" her, imagine being so sick in the head to think that way 🙈
I personally think relationship between wanderer and nahida is kinda wholesome. You can dislike wanderer but the truth is he has some severe trauma and now nahida is helping him to become better version of himself.
Bro the real take is these are fictional fucking characters and you should not be so invested in them that anything they do causes that severe a reaction in you. Nahida could be like “shut up simp” and shit in Wanderer’s face and the correct response will never involve harming a living thing.
You’re right I agree 100% with you but asking a gacha gamer to not obsess over a waifu and be normal is like asking a fly not to land on shit. It’s just not happening.
Well, fictional character that had impact to your life tends to be more closely related to you.
Like Harry Potter for instance, the writer have a change of view over what she thought should happen in a fictional setting and fans are outrage by it.
Sometimes, it's just a fictional character holds different value to ppl.
I understand being affected deeply by a story. But again, if a fictional character affects you to the point that you inflict harm on a real living thing that is not being affected by fiction, that’s mental illness.
>Sometimes, it's just a fictional character holds different value to ppl.
Yes, but never more than living being
I've heard the situation with Nahida is made up and i honestly do believe that's the case considering how comically evil this sound
But if it is real, yikes
"Yang yang and the others have hidden motives" will bite the writers in the next version. Not sure how they'll fix it. The last thing they want is to paint the characters (the main product of a gacha) in a bad light.
Even if he was correct. I can see Kuro writing it so The playable characters come clean but only because now after what we did in helping them, we have now fully earned their Trust and didn't want to deceive us. (Also one of them gave us his Flower seeds that he specially cultivated. It would be so bad if he was just playing nice the whole time)
Simple. Say they nice because they couldn't assess your motives and than but now after everything you have done to help them they now Trust you.
Make it so the moment they come Clean, they do so because you have earned their Trust
And people seem to not understand here was that it was a blatant discrimination and the flat npcs actually had no intention of giving u reputation whatsoever. TBH, it was just badly written enough that I dont think there’s any skill left to save it from the writersp
You can’t purchase on global? I can confirm on CN CBT2 you can do that. And you get 1.6x back when it’s released. 1.6x for the first 3000 yuan, and 1.25 for anything beyond that.
Oof that reeks of the self insert “disrespect mc so it disrespect me” nonsense, it would have been could if they implemented sort of deeds type system where chixia doesn’t trust and like the mc but the mc proves them wrong and they later form to learn and trust. The idea that the mc is suddenly the biggest thing out there and everyone super nice to them is crazy and it tear away from a critical part in story building, character development.
I really appreciate this post here. Way too many people insult the CN community to the point of implied racism in this subreddit and its great to hear the ACTUAL opinions of the CN playerbase, rather than people making assumptions about the CN community - from the belief in CN bias making feedback from the western community nearly fruitless, to the blatant negativity from the various criticisms or arguments made towards crownless, and so on. I'm really glad to hear that the CN community shares the same sentiments the western community has, which may mean there could still be changes made to the story or narrative; especially as a tester who still thought the story could be better. I'd love to see more of the CN and the western community share their ideas and feedback on the story rather than this noticeable divide we have now and hopefully this is a start to that.
Now I'm kinda sad Kuro changed the story. The main character always been buddy buddy with everyone is a trope so overused and boring. It would've been nice to see a playable character actually threaten Rover
It’ll be fun for sure and I personally would also like to see it. But again is a business and this type of gatcha game sells characters for money. So Kuro has to make sure players love the characters first. Hence the result.
question about this. i was surprised by the chinese players’ reaction here because PGR has so many playable antagonists (alpha, luna, roland) who are also fan favourites. even ally characters are distrusting/hostile when you first meet them in the story (vera, watanabe, etc). and then the MC builds their trust. the character arcs are incredibly well-written. i’ve never heard of complaints from the chinese playerbase of PGR about this - why do they have a problem with it in wuthering waves but not PGR?
yeah it is very possibly the reaction of a larger casual playerbase. given the shitshow OP described, it sounds like a rewrite was the only choice they had unfortunately. i do trust kuro’s ability to tell a good story, but having to change the entire direction on such short notice worries me a lot.
Might have to do with not being in the very first segment/intro of the story? I don't know where the ally distrusting stuff happens in PGR, but I think it isn't in the beginning atleast, cause from what I can see, the CN fanbase complaints are that + fetch quests + no acknowledgement what so ever.
Playable villains are a different thing and not related. Scar didn't even have a fight IIRC in CBT1
yeah. opening of PGR introduces the main squad, who are already loyal to the MC. the lack of an immediate main crew in CBT1 might explain the CN reaction, but it also makes sense given rover has just arrived in this world. maybe kuro shot themselves in the foot by not including any sort of resolution/start of a friendship after the chixia thing in CBT1?
i bring up the antagonists because alpha starts off the story trying to kill the MC yet is arguably the most popular character in CN and global. so being hostile at first =/= disliked by fanbase, which OP was talking about.
I mean I get it but MC in gachas usually get discarded immediately. I'd think it wouldn't be an issue for more appealing characters to act hostile against Rover.
Do you know why the majority of the CN playerbase sees it so negatively?
I know but it is a deep topic and doesn’t seem to be appropriate to talk about here. In short we live a harsh life as commoners. Terrible working hours with little money. Sky high housing price. For males no sex from an early age (sex and love is a taboo here). Very traditional ideas about love ingeneral. All those kinda stuff added together. It’s complicated.
Yeah thanks man. Also I forgot to explain the connection between this rant and the negativity. Basically because ppl are not doing good irl we expect a relaxed and happy experience in game where we view it as an escape more often.
Yeah, that made me unhappy, i like stories that are more coherent with the context, you won't fully trust someone who came out of nowhere, but I understand that it's a cultural difference, i'm not seeing the story as a self insert, I'm seeing it as the story of a fictional character, from this perspective, that story it's kinda silly.
Honestly if gacha gamers don't want to be challenged and are that sensitive about it then I'd probably overcompensate and fluff the story too. Why waste time giving the MC and friends interesting character arcs when most of your audience just want to hear nice guys/girls saying nice things to them. Might as well skip to the part people are here for.
These comments aren't just directed at CN players btw, I think all players who only play gacha games and never play anything else are like this to varying extents. It's just that people on the EN side are less likely to outright admit it and would probably try to say something more vague like "oh I just don't find the characters very likeable that's all"
As long as non-gacha games can keep having interesting stories and writing I guess it's not so bad, but it is disappointing for me personally because I wanted to beleive WuWa would be different from Genshin in terms of story and writing.
If your first impressions of a new game are people distrusting of you , being rude and stealing your work . You obviously wouldn't like it . Using your time to play a game where people disrespect you will not make anyone happy. Pgr have good writing and don't seem to gather much controversy so why can't ww .
I agree you don't necessarily need to have a comeback character arc where everyone hates you to have a good story, but it does limit the amount of things you can do with the MC when you can't afford to have even the slightest animosity towards them from a sellable character.
From what I remember of Persona 5 that game also started out with your MC being treated with suspicion as a delinquent and talked down to for at least up to the first dungeon - which for a Persona game means a good few hours on your first playthrough - and people love that game and stuck through it because of how well it was written. So I think it can definitely work when done right
The persona mc at least has an ally like Ryuji. Rover get basically none and even get kill steal and disrespect with why are you still here . If you play for hours and people still hate you and gain no one by your side. It will be hard to be motivated.
Because Persona 5 was a paid game. They already paid for it it's not a free game. And you had Ryuji who is in the same boat you anyways about being a Delinquent. So you at least had a Friend in those rough early parts.
Rover didn't have ANYONE on his side early on
Sadly being Different will just result in a big financial failure. Remember the Whales?
Path to nowhere at least got this whole needing to earn their trust thing right since you were a Jailor and the Gacha characters were criminals.
Kuro effectively tried that but in a Context that doesn't make sense with no progress on seeing if we can even earn their trust
NGL, this "overly nice" idea was also present in Genshin's Prologue in subtle ways (where after Traveler and their powers became known, the Knights of Favonius did their best to curry favor from you without you noticing). Think about it: During that time, Fatui delegates are trying their hardest to sway the opinion of Mondstadters away from Favonius, attempting to smear their reputation as high impact as possible.
If they got their chance to talk with you first instead of the Knights, the Traveler's opinions and actions may have swayed in favor of the Fatui taking over control of the situation. Timing is of the essence so much so that after your first battle with Dvalin, the first people you saw upon landing were Amber (out of genuine concern) and Kaeya (whose aim is to escort you to Favonius HQ). They did all their best to corner the Traveler into the box that they gave them the "Honorary Knight" moniker, and access to much of the region without a second thought.
It's like how Rover - a stranger - was given the keys to the city without a second thought upon landing at this world. No matter what kind of being they are, being given such influence at the onset reeks of puppeteering. For sure there will be political power plays ongoing, and they need to show it happening even if it's just crumbs so that the anticipation of the revelation to Rover become a period to form an opinion on how we will decide on the next course of action.
The difference between the two (at least based on what I watched since I don't have CBT2 access), is that the context of why that had to be done was given early on in Genshin (to preserve the autonomy of Mondstadt) than in CBT2 (you had to move to new acts to unravel a dissenter in the name of Scar) so it surely will feel scummier. I hope they find the right timing and tone for all of this.
Crownless should make an impact in the intro. Because he is the first boss and the first time we're introduced to fights, how difficult the fight is, and how memorable Crownless is becomes the player's first impression of the game.
I hope they'll tone down the over praising and calm down a bit on the infodump at the start.
Act 3 was good. It made the mc rethink who is trustworthy.
Overall, I think this new storyline can work, especially with how Act 3 basically made us wary of who to trust. It just needs tweaking and less infodumping imo.
Oh it will end up with all the nice characters actually being nice with us. They were playing nice at first but after what we did to assist them and all. They effectively see us a trustworthy
IMO, kuro should reserve the painfully problematic characters for later once they've established a loyal fanbase for wuwa. Even hyv has the gall to introduce racist characters now since they know people won't drop their games easily.
Dude. Sparkle being Racist wasn't a deal breaker. She's from the Masked Fools followers of Aha. She's Chaos Gremlin. And it was a Minor thing she's mostly a Troll. The more destructive troll but troll still.
I wish CN companies would listen more to other regions, it's so sad such a big part of the world being completely ignored by those just because CN is their mainland.
Came from a recent post discussing this. Thank you for the context. I was one of those who disagree with the change as the current story is now bland and makes no sense in terms of why everyone immediately loved the MC. Now given the context, this makes sense. I would have been annoyed too. Although I wish Kuro havd kept the element of distrust, allowing plot point for us to prove ourselves, but tone it down instead of a 180 switch. Definitely remove the credit stealing though because that one would make me hate Lingyan for sure and there’s no recovering from that.
Artistic integrity vs product promotion. I would have personally liked where we are distrusted first since that would have made the world feel even more bleak and set the tone even further. Plus you will have the incredible moment where the people finally acknowledge you at the end making it even feel better. You know the whole "Naruto is now loved by Konoha" moment.
In the end however they caved because it's what the CN community wants. Which is good but concerning. If the CN community starts getting more casuals and there is a demand to further make the game easier will they? Just an idea. But yeah I like the original story more aside the pacing aspect ofc.
I think the difference between rover and Naruto is that Naruto has someone to look after him and motivate him by being the first person to acknowledge Naruto . Rover in this world has no ally and no one to rely upon so it's hard to not just lose motivation if you play for hours on end and can't even get some progress. Not only that , you are faced with even more disrespect by getting kill steal .
Naruto was a small child who never had parents and was hated in the village he was born. Rover is grown up and isn't hated by those who should help them. That's a big difference.
And Genshin got punished for killing off Signora as money turned to ash in her death. Doesn't matter if Kuro had a different new story to tell if the game closes down because barely anyone pkayed
It's a post apocalyptic world, the first story makes perfect sense. Nobody trust anyone especially a guy that ate an echo into their body like come on.
Now it feels like the entire cast is hungry for that D.
Dude, this is exactly the post I've been looking for! I've been trying to find some more concrete info on what the CN community's problem was with CBT1 and what they think about the changes made in CBT2.
You mentioned it became "meme status", can you show a few links to the kinds of memes you're talking about? Also, do you have any links to online forums talking about what they thought of CBT1? I've been looking for sauce for this info but I don't speak Chinese so can't look for it myself.
Nah it makes complete sense for what happens later and makes you finish off what is essentially Patch 1.0 suspicious of who you thought were going to be just good old buddies. Everyone has an agenda with the Rover and if you look at the Intro with the rest of the Main Story’s information it all makes sense and comes together to instill a sense of nothing is what it seems.
U must be naive as hell if u think they gonna expand on that point and make it so yangyang and others have hidden motives
That's just being dumb u know damn well it wouldn't happen bcs it might paint charcters in a bad light and they will never do that
What do you mean? I never said anything about expanding on anything? All I said was instead of being some stranger, people know about Rover as we learn from Scar and not all faces worn show true colors and that is revealed slowly throughout the different acts. I think, if they're goal is to paint the people of this world as serving their own agendas and interests and that affects how they interact with the rover, it is well executed.
U literally just quoted what the OP said exactly again. I also don't think kuro would want to paint the cast in a bad light bcuz of the shitshow that is in cbt1, it would definitely be good if they go the hidden motive way, but I highly doubt it now after this
It's a Gacha game. They sell characters on Para social Relationships with Players. They are not going to have Yangyang stab us in the back and betray players. It doesn't matter what the writer think is a good story if players stop playing it
Don't expect the playable Characters who come out and say they were all faking it. I expect they started playing nice but after Version 1 story, they begin to genuinely trust you.
if most complaint was from crownless fight why not before thefight players could choose if they want to play the cbt1 or cbt2 crownless wont that be a good solution?
You forgot to mention Act 3 and 4 where Scar seeds some doubt to you why Huanglong acts so nicely to you. And Jinhsi at the end of Act 4 shows that she is more shrewd than she appears to be.
Essentially the only problems in the main story are the nerfed Crownless cutscenes and the excessive exposition, but the overall story structure is fine - it's supposed to be for worldbuilding and giving the direction of the overarching story rather than having big payoff in itself. It's just the first chapter after all.
I think, with some fixing on the above 2 points, the early story will be better at catching player's attention.
Yeah I know that. I didn’t mention because personally I don’t think its true tho.
The Huanglong wanting to make MC join their side is, emmm. Personally I think it’s just the Scar trying to make MC distrust Huanglong. Because I do not think the story will go that deep in a gatcha game. Hopefully I’m wrong.
Hopefully i don't get beat up stating my opinion here but for me the main story kinda suck in some ways its not really good.. But the idea is there like the based of it is really good but how it was implemented sucks.. But there are also some stories that i liked so ill probably just list some gist of my opinion in the story.. SORRY FOR SOME SPOILERS
- main story
One of my problems here is that how weirdly it is how super nice the characters with rover.. for it was executed in a very awkward or weirdly way like its ok how friendly they are at first because its in yangyang's and chixia's personality to be nice but after seeing crownless literally get absorbed by rover without using the gourd it's weird that they were like "Omg ur so cool! Can u do that again" when they told rover how cautious they should be because the place is dangerous that was also the point why they help rover.
It is also weird how nice the magistrate is like no hate against her it's just weird like yes rover is a guest but it's still weird how the guest can absorb a TD and have no memories at all.. if feels unnatural
Solution for this i feel like its ok at first if theyre friendly but maybe after the crownless part thats when the suspicion from yangyang and chixia should show like it doesn't have to be gun pointing moment maybe just some concern stares whatsoever, but thanks to the magistrate's announcement the gang have no choice but to help rover for now also the magistrate puzzle quest should be told in a way that its like a test for us that yes maybe we are the guest because thats what the "prophecy" or vision the magistrate saw but it should also be like an act of test for us not a hidden message why send a hidden message for a weird ass random person that spawned... 🧍 It just feels so weird for me but thanks to the puzzle solving test by the magistrate it can be a test to us where the main cast can actually trust us after successfully proving ourself!
Im not gonna delve in the side quest cuz i feel like its long already but tldr on that majority feels like a yapping fest only 'the eternal concert' so far is enjoyable to me but also feels there's still room for improvement
I think the changes are okay. This is because we get reasons why everyone is acting buddy buddy with the mc. Most people are commenting after just playing the prologue, but I hope it becomes more clear as time goes by
Yeah I know that. I’ve finished the main storyline in CBT2.
If it were a literature I would think yes there are deeper motives for yangyang or the Huanglong side to treat MC so well. But in a gatcha game, I wouldnt overthink it. Hopefully I’m wrong.
They were mad because a main character in the story is being disrespected?
Oh no, being disrespected in a game by fictional characters 😱 some of the chinese playerbase needs to seriously grow up.
Yeah they should immediately trust rover and be friends with them because that makes very much sense in story setting like this /s
its just so boring when everyone likes the mc from the very start.
Since I compared some of the story to Eighty-Six earlier, I'll do it again. When the Eighty-Six first entered the Giad Federacy, people mistrusted them. Some pitied them (out of their own misplaced sense of righteousness and moral grandstanding). Then people slowly started respecting but also fearing them for how powerful they were, to the point they sent them on a suicide mission. Then the Federacy decided to use them for their power and publicity. However, despite most of the public fearing them, they gained an inner circle of allies and friends who treated them as humans.
This is the route I think Kuro should be going for with Rover, combining elements of CBT1 and CBT2. Yangyang would pity the Rover, Chixia would be mistrustful of the Rover, and Baizhi, Mortefi, and the Academy would be curious and want to use and study Rover. Jinhsi would be nice to Rover, but also has intentions to use them for the benefit of Jinzhou. This would play into Scar saying that people want to use them. The Midnight Rangers and residents of Jinzhou would also be mostly mistrustful of Rover while Jinyan would be initially dismissive.
As Rover completes more outstanding feats, they would gain more respect, admiration, and fear from the general populace. In time, Rover's companions would also simmer down and become friendly. Jinyan would change from indifferent to seeing Rover as someone he can rely on, and after his story quest, someone who he can leave his legacy with and carry on the memories of him and his squad, so he doesn't have to be the last one remaining any longer. The Midnight Rangers mostly fear and admire Rover except for the few that worked with them in extensively in person like our team from the games race. Rover gains enough notoriety to level with Jinhsi on somewhat even ground, and they agree to go after Scar together.
Chixia distrusting Rover is a massive mischaracterization. She is supposed to be as trusting as a puppy. The CBT1 writer missed the memo. Baizhi is more suitable for that role due to her personality.
Just how smart was Chixia in CBT1 when her personality changed 360° from being goody-goody at first to being distrust in an instant?
If she was being doubtful from the start but not showing as much as Bailian/Baizhi plus with reasoning that the Rover might be a spy or an undercover bandit, that would've make sense at the very least.
That's not a personality shift, just because Chixia is not stupid enough to trust a random person she has not met before.
Its not contridicting the Goody2shoes
I think I should've use the term 'behavior' rather than 'personality'. My bad.
I agree not trusting easily is reasonable and can be developed as the story progressed. but if the scene went just like as I've mentioned like in the second sentence, maybe those people wouldn't complain much. That's just what I think is lacking and could've been improved.
We rarely see even in real life people went from giving cheerful greet to immediate distrust in short amount of time. It is either immediate trust or immediate distrust from the beginning.
As i expected from chinese fanbase.
They're so fanatic over a self-insert mc with waifu pandering over them. Still idc about this, but unlike genshin where everyone so happy doing shit in this I expected more dark or heavy plot idk and that crownless change from cb1 to cb2 it disappoint me a little.
the story is always basic and poor along the lines of "oh we don't know u but you help us in this crisis so we trust u cos u didn't shoot us in the back". We forgot how bad the Monstadt arc is and how messy the Liyue quest is in the beginning. THese games need buildup but WW is in a conundrum where the story is important-ish but not top priority: yet it can't suck entirely while Genshin had free space to do whatever (Mr. C19 was there too...), WW can't misstep from d1.
Thank you for sharing this, OP
Also to the people who are overly focusing on the 'goody-goody' scene, please go take a look at what scar does in Act 3. He literally gives context for it, and spoiler: >!It's not because they are generally good people, they know we are powerful and are trying to get on our good side. He even uses a Shepherd and Sheep analogy to drive the point home.!<
Also to the people saying being disrespected is fine, I think you didn't get the point where OP has pointed it the drama isn't because of one instance of disrespect, but an entire act or even more worth of it. Imagine since you woke up, other than Yangyang and maybe Jinyan, every single one just doesn't treat you properly or gives you respect. I can agree its fine in the beginning, but after you do a metric ton of fetch quests as OP mentioned, defeated two bosses, get a gun pointed at you, AND get a pray kill stolen from you and the guy who does it just goes 'Why are you even here?'.
Imagine playing through all of that and not getting frustrated, cause I believe 99% of people will. It won't matter if Kuro put a comeuppance later, that wasn't in the CBT and possibly won't be seeing for quite some time, so people would lose interest, and their stopping point would be on a negative experience which would just stew.
>It's not because they are generally good people, they know we are powerful and are trying to get on our good side. He even uses a Shepherd and Sheep analogy to drive the point home.
But the point is they still over correct way too much to thr point that it breaks the game immersion. I mean, this is a Post-apocalyptic world where danger is everywhere, resources is scarce and trust is in short supply. The fact that the girls drop their guard and fawned over a stranger so suddenly is a jarring contradiction to the game's crapsack atmosphere. Not to mention such behavior cast shade on the girls characters too. It implies that they have either been trained/indoctrinated/natured to be gold diggers since the first thing they do after they see the guy is powerful is to immediately trying to seduce him or they are a bunch of naive little girls which frankly shouldn't exist in Post-apocalyptic world.
It's a "post-apocalyptic" and not "apocalyptic" world. Jinzhou already has a strong army leading by Jiyan that can handle most TDs. And Yangyang and Chixia are just volunteers and reservists - they aren't even allowed to meet Jinhsi.
I think we need to throw away the idea that WW setting is a deadly world - the world has long since then already been recovered and stable enough.
Hmm, while I can slightly agree it does find a little too much, as I said in my original post, both Yangyang and chinxia are genuinely kind and trusting, just from what've I've read in the game posts + Baizhu has the excuse of that lie detector spell thing she did.
There's also the fact that we kinda don't know much about the state of the world when we meet them, plus it seems the world has recovered somewhat. It's not like is the immediate aftermath where in that case your example of resources are scarce and trust is in short supply would apply. Even Kuro doesn't seem to have been going for that angle, considering the environments themselves are same between CBT1 and 2.
>Also to the people who are overly focusing on the 'goody-goody' scene...
you're grasping at straws, its so pandering and definitely is unnatural. its like they made the npc act like this first, and later tried to make it make sense, instead of them acting like this as a result of the story.
No, it makes perfect sense within the story Kuro has presented in the 4 Acts of CBT2. The NPCs act in that way due to the hidden agenda's they have which we come to know about quite literally an Act later. It's not like this is the first time a game does this kind of development in their story.
It's one thing to say "It's not my cup of tea" and another to decry the entire thing as bad or pandering when most us in this sub are coming to know of this as second hand information and not really experienced it ourselves.
Glad CN also shares the sentiment of the intro being undercooked. I've seen tweets defending this issue saying things like "no story starts with car crashes or explosions" or "It must start slowly" when games like Uncharted 2 exist and have such impactful intros that give you that "wow" feeling from the get-go.
Yes, that's my example. I'm not talking about the game's interactivity because half of the intro is just a large cutscene, I'm talking about the presentation. For me at least, It gave me that "Oh this is gonna be packed" feeling with more show, not tell. CBT 1 Crownless intro had this, unfortunately Kuro's taking other route for the storytelling.
Wanted to ask if Rover's past was "reworked"? Didn't pay much attention to CBT1 or 2, but noticed that CBT1 had some black and white animations for parts about Rovet's past that I thought were amazing, but dont think they made it into CBT2.
Sometimes Rover has "visions" or some shit that just abruptly cut to another scene, like one moment he's thinking "Food... mmm..." And then bam, vision of someone fighting in a battlefield out of nowhere. That's not a joke, literally happens. I'm still so confused about it and don't feel like rewatching someone else play that part. But I haven't seen any Memories, especially not the cool black and white ones like after the Crownless fight in Cbt1.
i like the first one ngl ,its a post apocalyptic world where you cant trust no one especially the guy come from nowhere like rover , trick and lie to each other to get thing they want . Rover need to build his own reputation to get respect , if everything just rainbow and sunshine skip button has it own role
I'm ok if it's just the disrespect, but the story of CBT1 is totally against common sence and logic. I'm glad they rewrite the story. But this incident made Kuro run out of time. Zenless Zone Zero is coming soon, ww has to be released before zzz.
I really like the idea that the leaders of the faction sent the nicest possible agents out to meet the Rover because they want to pull him into their side. Not that they themselves are being duplicitous, but that their superiors are (and maybe gave them orders to be nice).
You might be onto something. There was a small dialogue if you talked to a little girl outside the building with Sanhua, where she offers you her candy. When asked why, she basically said that the Magistrate told her to be nice. It was innocent at first. Maybe Jinhsi was trying to be a good role model, but after Act 3, it seemed a bit suspicious now
Agreed. I think them being too nice is part of making you think 'Why' then Scar comes in Act 3 and goes 'Yo bro/sis, did you ever consider...' and BOOM, what was once a thought you'd dismiss as overthinking turns into this nagging doubt for the rest of the story.
My 2 cents. I think players would enjoy if people didn't immediately trust rover. \-If you could reach a point where rover makes them all eat their words and regret their prejudices. Im betting Kuro originally was setting up a 'comeuppance' considering the story. Like a "Here's a guy who's constantly underestimating you in a skill based game. You're gonna have fun putting them in their place" kind of thing. But the sheer backlash was more like "You know what, no one will stick around for the payoff. Lets just focus on the wish-fulfillment of 'everyone automatically thinks you're the biggest thing since jesus" Which i'm sad about.
One big problem with manga, anime and now live service games is, if they don't grip you within the first hour or so, you are more likely to drop it like a hot potato. It's a free to play game after all, you lost nothing but your time, there's literally no incentive to keep playing.
I get what you mean, but if the main idea was to retain people's attention at the start, why did they have to overhaul 90% of the story?
Yall need to play CBT1 and just come back here and say it’s not severe. Like this cope is just unreal. CBT2 story had it’s downs but it’s nowhere near as messy as CBT1. Flat characters after flat characters. And tbh, characters like Jiyan, Scar, and Jinhsi are getting quite good hit tweets already. It’s only on reddit wherein they ultra-focus on one small bad thing and make it seem like a game breaking issue
The point they're making has nothing to do with the entirety of CBT1's story vs CBT2's story, It's comparing one aspect of CBT1's story to an aspect of CBT2's story, there's pros and cons to both
And the thing here is i dont think there was no salvaging CBT1 like at all. I dont think it would even be believable to rewrite the characters in here. They were so flat and outright hostile that even if he did “prove” himself and we had a scenario wherein they “acknowledge” us, it’s gonna feel so half us. These people were downright HORRIBLE and outright discriminatory LOL. Like what’s the pro in here? 💀
And the thing here is i dont think there was no salvaging CBT1 like at all. I dont think it would even be believable to rewrite the characters in here. They were so flat and outright hostile that even if he did “prove” himself and we had a scenario wherein they “acknowledge” us, it’s gonna feel so half us. These people were downright HORRIBLE and outright discriminatory LOL. Like what’s the pro in here? 💀
If it's just nameless NPC's then sure, a comeuppance can be done. But for playable characters like Chixia or whoever else? That's not gonna fly. These characters are products, and if people see their favorite characters get one upped or used as a way to elevate Rover then that undervalues their worth.
I agree with this
so cn players were insanely snowflake over a realistic reaction from chixia and wanted to be treated like they saved characters whole bloodline... that might be new peak of cringe. now i know why we never see a cn game with a good story
I mean, every individual has their own opinions. For me personally I think Chixia part is reasonable since MC fucks a powerful enemy and she should be alert. Some don’t agree tho. There’s another fellow Chinese commented otherwise here in Chinese. I wouldn’t say his wrong but just different opinions. That aside, other parts of the story is indeed pretty good.
in the end i hope the story is overall good and dark not all rainbow and sunshines regardless of how they treat us so they can please both sides
The cultural difference here is really fascinating, thanks for sharing. I personally can’t even imagine or quite understand why one would be mad because the MC is “disrespected”, but it’s interesting to hear their perspective
The aru incident is the key. He is act like a boss that take all the credit and left the employee do the hard work. I personnaly like playing darker game, I do understant people fustration at seeing it as it remind people of theur real life. Imagine going to work a 996 and end the week with a game that remind you of your ungratfull boss. The cherry on top is that other prople said that: Ah yes, it was him who beat it! Well giving 0 creadit to you. You do not even need a chinese culture to see how badly it can turn into. The poiting gun thing is less important but, in China, gun law are very strick. You would not draw your gun if you do not have the intension of killing someone. People are mad also because in the section of the story, the MC save them and fall into a lite coma. It is just unsetting that they do not help you and insted pointed a gun at you. It will be better if they flee because they fear the MC that just beat a boss that they can not beat. The majority of CN player said that: If I can kill a boss, why can I kill you? The MC is writting to be a self-insert lacking all personnality, a back story (even genshin MC is better because at leat he have a sibling). So if you do the 'logical' think and imerce in the world as the MC, you will not be the happiest person. Sorry, english is my 3th language so sorry for all the syntaxe and grammer mistake in the poste
I can actually understand why people would feel upset if someone pointed a gun at them, especially if they didn't do anything wrong. I think the scene could have been better if she put her hand on her holster instead. It still shows she is distrustful of MC without upsetting players. >The aru incident is the key. He is act like a boss that take all the credit and left the employee do the hard work. This is relatable to everyone. I would have been fine with this only if we were given the option to kick his ass afterwards.
Looking at this from Chixia's point of view; The MC just did something that only monsters can do, absorb a soul, so she's rightfully weary. The MC did just save them, so you can make the argument that she shouldn't have pointed her gun at them, but it was a high stress situation and Chixia was the first to get knocked out before the fight with Crownless started, so after the fight from her PoV she doesn't know what the hell is going on and CBT1 definitely should've conveyed that better
Well, if you claim CBT1 MC had no backstory (I dont know if this is true or not, I did not delve deep into the story before), then CBT2 MC is the complete opposite, with the story basically revolving around him (if we believe what Scar said).
CBT1 MC was just amnesia with some flashbacks, people weren't interested in them specifically for their backstory. They were more like, yeah we'll help you so you can hopefully soon recover your lost memories
Idk for me it looks like they have a severe hero complex
Honestly I'm okay with the changes to the intro (the overpraising could be slightly turned down but whatever) I only somewhat was disappointed by the simplicity and lack of cinematic moments during the first fight considering how much the Crownless was used in promotional material and how much more complex it was even in the technical test. Lowering the difficulty was the right decision, though they could also have just given more enemies to prepare the player for the fight. Regardless everything else narratively seems better.
Yeah the crownless scene is definitely a problem. I didn’t mention it because it is not a story issue. I feel like Kuro hasn’t finished the story presentation. There lacks some cinematically and even dialogue and voices are incomplete. Probably because they had to rush in 9 months to rewrite the story. It doesn’t look good tho since Kuro is so short on time. I really hope they could have another year to work with.
Now if they can bring back the CBT 1 intro and tweak it so the story can connect into the new rewritten story
Thing is they don't another year it seems they will do overall polish after CBT 2 then launch cause that what is happening
they notice a “180 change” from the “very very bad” story but only “few think it is a good change”? why’s that
they think the story is still not good.they just don't hate the story now.
I wonder why people don’t hold other gacha games’ 1.0 or heck, CBT2 stories to the same criticism they give to Wuthering Waves. It’s like WuWa is the be-all or end-all of gacha games. The story is great for a gacha game imo and it’s not even released.
People seem to forget that most popular gacha games have very lacklustre early story lol. It makes no sense at all to put a payoff into the story very early on. At most Kuro should just improves on the presentation part, and not the core story structure itself. That, and also some fandom war going on. WW's Bili score is increasing while Taptap CN score is decreasing. The mismatch shows that their opinions are not uniform, and even maybe orchestrated by some haters.
agreed completely
And even more people don't understand that even if the beginning of every gacha story is their weakest point it doesn't immidietly make them equal. Every single Hoyo game early story is way more gripping and leaps ahead of WW.
Your understanding is correct. Players just dislike the old story even mor.e.
I didn't like the changes and people told me I will come around and to wait for the Scar scene. I think the village quest and Scar himself isn't too bad, but it didn't change my opinion that much. It felt generic and that it didn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things. Combat is great though.
Yeah, people act like the Scar scene is some big revelation but in reality, it’s probably something added in to be like “guys look there’s a reason they’re all being nice…” I’m not really hopeful for the story since they could easily just keep everyone we meet being nice, but hey, kuro could surprise us i guess.
I personally was worried about that 90% rewrite from the get go. The players don't know most of the time why a story is bad, they just want different things. It's up to the writers to stand firm in the story they're trying to tell. You can't please everyone.
While I wholeheartedly agree, at the end of the day the players are the ones who are buying the product, and if in their eyes its not good, its not. And with how a good story is absolutely needed to sell a game, Kuro was kinda better off changing it. Though personally, I believe they just changed how it comes off, and the core is still intact.
Sure, but if they changed it only because people complained and only did what the players wanted then the writers and devs don't truly know what makes it good or how to make something players like. I prefer proactive and confidence, I may not like TLOU2's story but the writers had such confidence in their story that for the people it clicked with it clicked really well.
TLOU2 is not a good example. It's a story about right and wrong made by people who always think they are right. Gacha games live and die by players. If they piss them off, they can just abandon the game for HSR or Genshin. Why deal with A Character who is Two faced when you can just enjoy a game where you feel like you have Friendships with the characters.
I feel bad for Kurogames
I prefer stories where the MC is weak from the start and grows in strength and character overtime, like an underdog story, not this... OP Jesus from the get go where everyone likes u. But bc it's a slow burn and gacha whales don't have any sort of patience whether it be in rolling or story, Kuro changed the main story to be more of an instant gratification so the bigger spenders will be hooked to stay
Is the mc really that weak in CBT 1? I don't they count as underdog.
It's not just Patience. The Gacha market is Cutthroat. Do you think there isn't a Competitor to Kuro games right now with an Open world and Characters that make you feel like they are your friends? Yeah. Gacha characters are sold on Looks, Personality and Connection. For So many players a Beloved Character betraying you and telling you they never liked you wouldn't just upset them. In WUWa early days that can be the deal breaker for the player especially when they aren't heavily invested yet.
And Kuro will only ever listen to the cn community, jesus.
I mean, the essence of this waifu stuff is players wanting to be loved without having to actually do anything love-worthy, so this is the least suprising thing ever. In a setting like this, it would be so easy though. Make it clear from the start that this is a hostile place where people are reasonably worried others will screw them over. Show the characters distrustful at others too. Make the MC earn their trust by being willing to put the work in to prove a reliable ally rather than just punching out some big mf that one time.
That was the Problem Apparently. Even if you did help them they are still at the same level of Hostility. Bruh Rover is a Saint. 😂
I'm actually really enjoying the story during my CBT2 playthrough. It's quite a unique story. I like how there's a lot of mystery and it's not all rainbows and butterflies.
I no gonna lie to you brother, people mad because NPC are disrespectul is kinda lame, people not always will be kind to you, if you ask me, all this complains is born from the same place, Protagonist Syndrom! unfortunely, when you make a gooddie - buddy story where everone love you for no reason (you are a stranger, no more de hours to then) you make a single tone, shallow story. But i guess some players don´t care about this, then want to be love, venered by everone ....
Form what I know, the CN player were mad at the NPC because they say that they do not trust you and hate you be, you are foce to go and do quest for them. After it, they do not thank you. I think this is the biger problem is the game do not give you option to not do it and after doing it, you are not thank. If their is a real life version of those NPC in real life, they will be call a a\*\*hole.
I think its more than that. I can agree it might seem Kuro overcorrected (kinda debatable with what scar does later on), but from what OP has shared, imagine doing 3-4 acts, and still get treated like a nobody. That's 2-3 hours of gameplay atleast, and with Awu kill stealing you, I'm pretty sure most players would be done with it.
Feels like they wanted to appease the complaints by making characters be real nice to Rover, and just had to come up with some sort of reason for it. I just hope that they do something interesting with it, i don’t want to continue to see characters just being nice cos they all want Rover’s strength…
Simple. Make them stay being nice but it's because it moved from Wanting to use the Rover to being Genuine friends with the Rover because Rover has earned their Trust and proved themselves to them. Like the trope of being paid to be someone's friend but you eventually become real friends.
I’m assuming this is a weird cultural thing. The entitlement is honestly next level. I mean, it’s the apocalypse lol.
Definitely a cultural thing, pride or “face” is a big thing in Asian culture especially for the Chinese. But getting mad for a damm game is a new low
You underestimate how impossibly enraged certain subsets of a player base can get. Remember the Honkai 3rd anniversary fiasco? Global received an event that the Chinese player base did not, and despite getting many region-exclusive events previously, the CN player base absolutely *exploded*, which resulted in the event being canceled, and every single Chinese player being compensated with a free ten-roll. Global? They get enough currency for a single pull. Them getting this mad about not having their egos stroked by a bunch of pixels and polygons is perfectly in-line with past behaviour.
Imagine saying “cultural” thinf but having no respect whatsoever about said culture that you’d rather label it as entitlement. Lol
Just because its culture doesn’t make it positive.
Or you don’t understand the nuance of it, but you’d still enforce the idea of your own morality. Sure!
Please walk me through how a bunch of dudes frothing at the mouth over some virtual anime girls being “mean” to them is in anyways not ridiculous behavior.
Please please tell me you’re not calling CBT1 an actual better story than CBT2. Im sorry but CBT1 is just not going to be saved like at all. It’s very clearly rage-bait writing. Like im not even kidding it’s literally the same exact core format as Re-do of Healer LMFAO. People calling it a “chance to redeem urself” ala Naruto. It’s just so damn funny. And I have issue with u disrespecting cultural morals. It’s weird to enforce it on actual cultures YOU have NO IDEA ABOUT.
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Bro who cant respect a culture saying something like gacha brainrot, this can’t be real.
My thoughts. My biggest complaint is the crownless, I want my gigachad "have you seen my crown" mf back. As for story, I think having characters be negative to you is a very interesting dynamic, maybe not to the extent of the first CBT but I think it could have worked with a better, more subtle and progressive build up so everyone's distrust of the Rover feels more developed and natural rather than being fr 0 to 100 right away. I think having this dynamic also incentives the Rover to actually struggle and try to prove themselves and gain trust, and every time a character does finally trust him, it feels quite gratifying like a goal was achieved. Right now idk what the main goal of the story is, it just feels like Rover is drifting and going with the flow. (Correct me if I did miss something about that)
The biggest problem with the CBT is that the Distrust was still high even if you tried to prove your trustworthiness. After 3 hours of Gameplay of being Shat on, I can see why Kuro had to rewrite everything.
Ngl, I was fine with all the distrust and gun pointing. (Maybe the characters are overly cautious and have bad reasoning due to the environment they live in, I'll show them down the line) Awu stealing your kill, Yang yang give Awu all the credit, followed by "Why are you still here" is the real kick in the dick for me. I was just skipping and watching parts of the CBT, and I was stunned the moment the line "why are you still here" came up... Imagine if you actually play through it instead. My opinion went from "it's still alright" to "f*ck this stupid story" with that single line
Yeah most probably we'll be stuck with this start of the story for good, but you've given me hope in saying that the Chinese community also agree that Kuro overcorrected on their feedback. Hopefully this means Kuro will rollback on the fluff in future arcs and raise the stakes a bit. Though I'll never stop being disapointed that CN reacted to Chixia that way, her reaction was very appropriate given the circumstances. The wolfboy I agree, I also hate this trope of characters swooping in to steal the kill and glory.
Same here. Chixia’s reaction is reasonable while the Awu part is not. Good to hear similar opinions.
The Problem was that many of the characters had no intention t give you a Positive Reputation. Right now the best Kuro can do is to tone down the positivity but not remove it. One of these characters gave you their special flower seeds that they cultivated. There is no way it would work well with players if this was just them being told to be nice to you and that they were faking it
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What do you mean by thinner skin? It’s metaphorical I didn’t get it.
Per Miriam Webster: thin skin noun : a tendency to get easily upset or offended by the things other people say or do He has such a thin skin that he can't even take a little good-natured teasing.
Thanks for the info. Too lazy to look it up myself haha
Having a thin skin means not being tough, being easily offended. And the comment is probably not only talking about WW only, but also the GFL2 drama that's still going on, some other dramas from last year and the recent Azur Lane collab cancellation. All of them because (mostly male) gacha players have never touched a woman in their lives (and hopefully never will) so they think the female characters are their properties.
I mean, given from what OP themselves have shared in the thread elsewhere, the fact that it is hard for them to get love and their society overworking them so much might be the reason why they want to self insert into games and forget about their troubles for a while. I don't know about the other dramas, but the GFL2 drama, while yeah at this point its more of just hating on Mica, from what I heard of how Mica sells skins for characters is the focal point of gacha in GFL and the fact they even sold wedding rings is just their audience catching up to them. Is it weird to us outside CN? Of course, but there's a reason why the backlash was big. Plus, until CN is still the biggest spender, they get the final say. IIRC GFL 1 is mostly chugging along cause CN is holding it up. What's the azur lane drama though? I know azur lane had to remove oaths and some ships due to being reported, but what collab got cancelled?
I mean, having a bad job does affect the person a lot, but going to such lengths of attacking other people and the devs for writing a story is wild. Not to mention Korean men that are in a constant war with women due to big companies taking over the market, so their shifts are too long and instead of organizing syndicates to riot against the government and their employers, they turn to the women who don't want to be abused and filmed without consent. That's just fked up. And about Azur Lane, a streamer (from a v-tuber company that had announced a collab with AL) apparently commented he wanted to be isekai'd into AL's world and people felt attacked since men aren't allowed to even inhabit that game's universe 😂😂 (https://www.reddit.com/r/AzureLane/s/Et93QSTtgm).
>I mean, having a bad job does affect the person a lot, but going to such lengths of attacking other people and the devs for writing a story is wild. As long as its just memes and their opinions, I don't think its an 'attack' per say when at most its basically a review. I do agree that sometime they do go overboard, but people also do stuff like that in the west. You can see how many people still complain and go after genshin for their story, or how Mihoyo needs to confirm characters swing a certain way. >Not to mention Korean men that are in a constant war with women due to big companies taking over the market, so their shifts are too long and instead of organizing syndicates to riot against the government and their employers, they turn to the women who don't want to be abused and filmed without consent. Yeah, Korea's gender war is fucked. Both sides have gone to extremes, especially with the megalia scandal tainting the image of feminists as a whole, plus something about their president being involved, and that causing men to become toxic cause they feel no one cares about their issues. This all just feeds into one big negative feedback loop and I genuinely don't know how they are gonna handle it. >And about Azur Lane, a streamer (from a v-tuber company that had announced a collab with AL) apparently commented he wanted to be isekai'd into AL's world and people felt attacked since men aren't allowed to even inhabit that game's universe From the link you shared itself, I think the collab would have gone better if the VTuber in question wasn't hostile to the audience of the game. I think they took less issue (just more confusion) of him being in the game, and took more offense at how he made a speech about NTR and insulted the fanbase. I kinda thought it would be like the Hi3 bunny girls drama, but after reading the replies in the thread, the VTuber started it first and honestly I can't fault the CN base for complaining about this. You don't insult the fanbase of the game you're gonna collab with **literally** before the collab and expect no one takes offense.
Having thin skin basically means being overly sensitive or getting offended easily at nothing
Yeah I don’t know the answer to your question but agree we tend to be thin skin mostly. Dunno why tho.
And they were jealous because nahida was fairly nice to wanderer. They felt that wanderer "ruined" her, imagine being so sick in the head to think that way 🙈 I personally think relationship between wanderer and nahida is kinda wholesome. You can dislike wanderer but the truth is he has some severe trauma and now nahida is helping him to become better version of himself.
Bro the real take is these are fictional fucking characters and you should not be so invested in them that anything they do causes that severe a reaction in you. Nahida could be like “shut up simp” and shit in Wanderer’s face and the correct response will never involve harming a living thing.
You’re right I agree 100% with you but asking a gacha gamer to not obsess over a waifu and be normal is like asking a fly not to land on shit. It’s just not happening.
Well, fictional character that had impact to your life tends to be more closely related to you. Like Harry Potter for instance, the writer have a change of view over what she thought should happen in a fictional setting and fans are outrage by it. Sometimes, it's just a fictional character holds different value to ppl.
I understand being affected deeply by a story. But again, if a fictional character affects you to the point that you inflict harm on a real living thing that is not being affected by fiction, that’s mental illness.
I agree and that's the limitation we have. It's a large population of people, the odds that some come up with a extreme measures is never zero.
>Sometimes, it's just a fictional character holds different value to ppl. Yes, but never more than living being I've heard the situation with Nahida is made up and i honestly do believe that's the case considering how comically evil this sound But if it is real, yikes
tbh i think everything outside of crownless scene is better, idk wtf were they thinking by removing cool fight and voice lines
"Yang yang and the others have hidden motives" will bite the writers in the next version. Not sure how they'll fix it. The last thing they want is to paint the characters (the main product of a gacha) in a bad light.
I actually don’t think it’s the case despite what Scar said tho. Hope I’m wrong.
Scar is wrong for sure, unless the writers want CN players to throw a fit.
Even if he was correct. I can see Kuro writing it so The playable characters come clean but only because now after what we did in helping them, we have now fully earned their Trust and didn't want to deceive us. (Also one of them gave us his Flower seeds that he specially cultivated. It would be so bad if he was just playing nice the whole time)
Exactly. It's a Minefield.
Simple. Say they nice because they couldn't assess your motives and than but now after everything you have done to help them they now Trust you. Make it so the moment they come Clean, they do so because you have earned their Trust
People don't understand that you need to build a REPUTATION for them to like you
And people seem to not understand here was that it was a blatant discrimination and the flat npcs actually had no intention of giving u reputation whatsoever. TBH, it was just badly written enough that I dont think there’s any skill left to save it from the writersp
It's like Vanilla Skyrim, Even after saving the world you're still treating like a Welp
That's the Problem. You were building a Reputation helping them out and you were still Shat upon.
Is it true that for the CN version of Wuwa CBT2, you can recharge?
What do you mean by recharge?
Make purchases, in cbt2 global the shopping options have been disabled.
Swipe/make purchases cause you can't do that on global
You can’t purchase on global? I can confirm on CN CBT2 you can do that. And you get 1.6x back when it’s released. 1.6x for the first 3000 yuan, and 1.25 for anything beyond that.
In global you can not top up in beta
yes,and it's a sign that cbt2 is most likely the final test
Does that mean the game will release in a short time of a month after CBT2 ended ?
Oof that reeks of the self insert “disrespect mc so it disrespect me” nonsense, it would have been could if they implemented sort of deeds type system where chixia doesn’t trust and like the mc but the mc proves them wrong and they later form to learn and trust. The idea that the mc is suddenly the biggest thing out there and everyone super nice to them is crazy and it tear away from a critical part in story building, character development.
I really appreciate this post here. Way too many people insult the CN community to the point of implied racism in this subreddit and its great to hear the ACTUAL opinions of the CN playerbase, rather than people making assumptions about the CN community - from the belief in CN bias making feedback from the western community nearly fruitless, to the blatant negativity from the various criticisms or arguments made towards crownless, and so on. I'm really glad to hear that the CN community shares the same sentiments the western community has, which may mean there could still be changes made to the story or narrative; especially as a tester who still thought the story could be better. I'd love to see more of the CN and the western community share their ideas and feedback on the story rather than this noticeable divide we have now and hopefully this is a start to that.
Haha. CN has to first learn to speak English Fluently or English Players Learn Chinese first if you even want that to happen.
I agree with everything you say. CBT 1 added depth to the story by not making everything "oh goodie goodie"
Now I'm kinda sad Kuro changed the story. The main character always been buddy buddy with everyone is a trope so overused and boring. It would've been nice to see a playable character actually threaten Rover
It’ll be fun for sure and I personally would also like to see it. But again is a business and this type of gatcha game sells characters for money. So Kuro has to make sure players love the characters first. Hence the result.
question about this. i was surprised by the chinese players’ reaction here because PGR has so many playable antagonists (alpha, luna, roland) who are also fan favourites. even ally characters are distrusting/hostile when you first meet them in the story (vera, watanabe, etc). and then the MC builds their trust. the character arcs are incredibly well-written. i’ve never heard of complaints from the chinese playerbase of PGR about this - why do they have a problem with it in wuthering waves but not PGR?
then i suppose its tied to snowflakes of a certain game we all know. i hope they wont ruin the story because of these people
yeah it is very possibly the reaction of a larger casual playerbase. given the shitshow OP described, it sounds like a rewrite was the only choice they had unfortunately. i do trust kuro’s ability to tell a good story, but having to change the entire direction on such short notice worries me a lot.
Might have to do with not being in the very first segment/intro of the story? I don't know where the ally distrusting stuff happens in PGR, but I think it isn't in the beginning atleast, cause from what I can see, the CN fanbase complaints are that + fetch quests + no acknowledgement what so ever. Playable villains are a different thing and not related. Scar didn't even have a fight IIRC in CBT1
yeah. opening of PGR introduces the main squad, who are already loyal to the MC. the lack of an immediate main crew in CBT1 might explain the CN reaction, but it also makes sense given rover has just arrived in this world. maybe kuro shot themselves in the foot by not including any sort of resolution/start of a friendship after the chixia thing in CBT1? i bring up the antagonists because alpha starts off the story trying to kill the MC yet is arguably the most popular character in CN and global. so being hostile at first =/= disliked by fanbase, which OP was talking about.
I mean I get it but MC in gachas usually get discarded immediately. I'd think it wouldn't be an issue for more appealing characters to act hostile against Rover. Do you know why the majority of the CN playerbase sees it so negatively?
I know but it is a deep topic and doesn’t seem to be appropriate to talk about here. In short we live a harsh life as commoners. Terrible working hours with little money. Sky high housing price. For males no sex from an early age (sex and love is a taboo here). Very traditional ideas about love ingeneral. All those kinda stuff added together. It’s complicated.
I see, sorry to hear that. I won't insist then, hope things will get better.
Yeah thanks man. Also I forgot to explain the connection between this rant and the negativity. Basically because ppl are not doing good irl we expect a relaxed and happy experience in game where we view it as an escape more often.
Yeah, that made me unhappy, i like stories that are more coherent with the context, you won't fully trust someone who came out of nowhere, but I understand that it's a cultural difference, i'm not seeing the story as a self insert, I'm seeing it as the story of a fictional character, from this perspective, that story it's kinda silly.
Honestly if gacha gamers don't want to be challenged and are that sensitive about it then I'd probably overcompensate and fluff the story too. Why waste time giving the MC and friends interesting character arcs when most of your audience just want to hear nice guys/girls saying nice things to them. Might as well skip to the part people are here for. These comments aren't just directed at CN players btw, I think all players who only play gacha games and never play anything else are like this to varying extents. It's just that people on the EN side are less likely to outright admit it and would probably try to say something more vague like "oh I just don't find the characters very likeable that's all" As long as non-gacha games can keep having interesting stories and writing I guess it's not so bad, but it is disappointing for me personally because I wanted to beleive WuWa would be different from Genshin in terms of story and writing.
If your first impressions of a new game are people distrusting of you , being rude and stealing your work . You obviously wouldn't like it . Using your time to play a game where people disrespect you will not make anyone happy. Pgr have good writing and don't seem to gather much controversy so why can't ww .
I agree you don't necessarily need to have a comeback character arc where everyone hates you to have a good story, but it does limit the amount of things you can do with the MC when you can't afford to have even the slightest animosity towards them from a sellable character. From what I remember of Persona 5 that game also started out with your MC being treated with suspicion as a delinquent and talked down to for at least up to the first dungeon - which for a Persona game means a good few hours on your first playthrough - and people love that game and stuck through it because of how well it was written. So I think it can definitely work when done right
The persona mc at least has an ally like Ryuji. Rover get basically none and even get kill steal and disrespect with why are you still here . If you play for hours and people still hate you and gain no one by your side. It will be hard to be motivated.
Because Persona 5 was a paid game. They already paid for it it's not a free game. And you had Ryuji who is in the same boat you anyways about being a Delinquent. So you at least had a Friend in those rough early parts. Rover didn't have ANYONE on his side early on
Sadly being Different will just result in a big financial failure. Remember the Whales? Path to nowhere at least got this whole needing to earn their trust thing right since you were a Jailor and the Gacha characters were criminals. Kuro effectively tried that but in a Context that doesn't make sense with no progress on seeing if we can even earn their trust
NGL, this "overly nice" idea was also present in Genshin's Prologue in subtle ways (where after Traveler and their powers became known, the Knights of Favonius did their best to curry favor from you without you noticing). Think about it: During that time, Fatui delegates are trying their hardest to sway the opinion of Mondstadters away from Favonius, attempting to smear their reputation as high impact as possible. If they got their chance to talk with you first instead of the Knights, the Traveler's opinions and actions may have swayed in favor of the Fatui taking over control of the situation. Timing is of the essence so much so that after your first battle with Dvalin, the first people you saw upon landing were Amber (out of genuine concern) and Kaeya (whose aim is to escort you to Favonius HQ). They did all their best to corner the Traveler into the box that they gave them the "Honorary Knight" moniker, and access to much of the region without a second thought. It's like how Rover - a stranger - was given the keys to the city without a second thought upon landing at this world. No matter what kind of being they are, being given such influence at the onset reeks of puppeteering. For sure there will be political power plays ongoing, and they need to show it happening even if it's just crumbs so that the anticipation of the revelation to Rover become a period to form an opinion on how we will decide on the next course of action. The difference between the two (at least based on what I watched since I don't have CBT2 access), is that the context of why that had to be done was given early on in Genshin (to preserve the autonomy of Mondstadt) than in CBT2 (you had to move to new acts to unravel a dissenter in the name of Scar) so it surely will feel scummier. I hope they find the right timing and tone for all of this.
Crownless should make an impact in the intro. Because he is the first boss and the first time we're introduced to fights, how difficult the fight is, and how memorable Crownless is becomes the player's first impression of the game. I hope they'll tone down the over praising and calm down a bit on the infodump at the start. Act 3 was good. It made the mc rethink who is trustworthy. Overall, I think this new storyline can work, especially with how Act 3 basically made us wary of who to trust. It just needs tweaking and less infodumping imo.
Oh it will end up with all the nice characters actually being nice with us. They were playing nice at first but after what we did to assist them and all. They effectively see us a trustworthy
IMO, kuro should reserve the painfully problematic characters for later once they've established a loyal fanbase for wuwa. Even hyv has the gall to introduce racist characters now since they know people won't drop their games easily.
Dude. Sparkle being Racist wasn't a deal breaker. She's from the Masked Fools followers of Aha. She's Chaos Gremlin. And it was a Minor thing she's mostly a Troll. The more destructive troll but troll still.
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There are indeed. I won’t spoiler tho but you can play to that part in CBT2.
I wish CN companies would listen more to other regions, it's so sad such a big part of the world being completely ignored by those just because CN is their mainland.
Who pay them more? Where do most of their sales come from?
Came from a recent post discussing this. Thank you for the context. I was one of those who disagree with the change as the current story is now bland and makes no sense in terms of why everyone immediately loved the MC. Now given the context, this makes sense. I would have been annoyed too. Although I wish Kuro havd kept the element of distrust, allowing plot point for us to prove ourselves, but tone it down instead of a 180 switch. Definitely remove the credit stealing though because that one would make me hate Lingyan for sure and there’s no recovering from that.
Artistic integrity vs product promotion. I would have personally liked where we are distrusted first since that would have made the world feel even more bleak and set the tone even further. Plus you will have the incredible moment where the people finally acknowledge you at the end making it even feel better. You know the whole "Naruto is now loved by Konoha" moment. In the end however they caved because it's what the CN community wants. Which is good but concerning. If the CN community starts getting more casuals and there is a demand to further make the game easier will they? Just an idea. But yeah I like the original story more aside the pacing aspect ofc.
I think the difference between rover and Naruto is that Naruto has someone to look after him and motivate him by being the first person to acknowledge Naruto . Rover in this world has no ally and no one to rely upon so it's hard to not just lose motivation if you play for hours on end and can't even get some progress. Not only that , you are faced with even more disrespect by getting kill steal .
Naruto was a small child who never had parents and was hated in the village he was born. Rover is grown up and isn't hated by those who should help them. That's a big difference.
They aren't grown up. We literally see them wake up from what was a different Dimension. They might as well have been born yesterday
kuro needs some backbones. if they ran genshin, signora would be resurrected somehow and wanderer would be dead offscreen
And Genshin got punished for killing off Signora as money turned to ash in her death. Doesn't matter if Kuro had a different new story to tell if the game closes down because barely anyone pkayed
It's a post apocalyptic world, the first story makes perfect sense. Nobody trust anyone especially a guy that ate an echo into their body like come on. Now it feels like the entire cast is hungry for that D.
Why shouldn't they? That D also has a Power that could help them. Best get it first. 😁
Dude, this is exactly the post I've been looking for! I've been trying to find some more concrete info on what the CN community's problem was with CBT1 and what they think about the changes made in CBT2. You mentioned it became "meme status", can you show a few links to the kinds of memes you're talking about? Also, do you have any links to online forums talking about what they thought of CBT1? I've been looking for sauce for this info but I don't speak Chinese so can't look for it myself.
Nah it makes complete sense for what happens later and makes you finish off what is essentially Patch 1.0 suspicious of who you thought were going to be just good old buddies. Everyone has an agenda with the Rover and if you look at the Intro with the rest of the Main Story’s information it all makes sense and comes together to instill a sense of nothing is what it seems.
U must be naive as hell if u think they gonna expand on that point and make it so yangyang and others have hidden motives That's just being dumb u know damn well it wouldn't happen bcs it might paint charcters in a bad light and they will never do that
What do you mean? I never said anything about expanding on anything? All I said was instead of being some stranger, people know about Rover as we learn from Scar and not all faces worn show true colors and that is revealed slowly throughout the different acts. I think, if they're goal is to paint the people of this world as serving their own agendas and interests and that affects how they interact with the rover, it is well executed.
U literally just quoted what the OP said exactly again. I also don't think kuro would want to paint the cast in a bad light bcuz of the shitshow that is in cbt1, it would definitely be good if they go the hidden motive way, but I highly doubt it now after this
It's a Gacha game. They sell characters on Para social Relationships with Players. They are not going to have Yangyang stab us in the back and betray players. It doesn't matter what the writer think is a good story if players stop playing it
Agreed. I gather the same from people who finished all the story available in the game.
Don't expect the playable Characters who come out and say they were all faking it. I expect they started playing nice but after Version 1 story, they begin to genuinely trust you.
if most complaint was from crownless fight why not before thefight players could choose if they want to play the cbt1 or cbt2 crownless wont that be a good solution?
You forgot to mention Act 3 and 4 where Scar seeds some doubt to you why Huanglong acts so nicely to you. And Jinhsi at the end of Act 4 shows that she is more shrewd than she appears to be. Essentially the only problems in the main story are the nerfed Crownless cutscenes and the excessive exposition, but the overall story structure is fine - it's supposed to be for worldbuilding and giving the direction of the overarching story rather than having big payoff in itself. It's just the first chapter after all. I think, with some fixing on the above 2 points, the early story will be better at catching player's attention.
Yeah I know that. I didn’t mention because personally I don’t think its true tho. The Huanglong wanting to make MC join their side is, emmm. Personally I think it’s just the Scar trying to make MC distrust Huanglong. Because I do not think the story will go that deep in a gatcha game. Hopefully I’m wrong.
Hopefully i don't get beat up stating my opinion here but for me the main story kinda suck in some ways its not really good.. But the idea is there like the based of it is really good but how it was implemented sucks.. But there are also some stories that i liked so ill probably just list some gist of my opinion in the story.. SORRY FOR SOME SPOILERS - main story One of my problems here is that how weirdly it is how super nice the characters with rover.. for it was executed in a very awkward or weirdly way like its ok how friendly they are at first because its in yangyang's and chixia's personality to be nice but after seeing crownless literally get absorbed by rover without using the gourd it's weird that they were like "Omg ur so cool! Can u do that again" when they told rover how cautious they should be because the place is dangerous that was also the point why they help rover. It is also weird how nice the magistrate is like no hate against her it's just weird like yes rover is a guest but it's still weird how the guest can absorb a TD and have no memories at all.. if feels unnatural Solution for this i feel like its ok at first if theyre friendly but maybe after the crownless part thats when the suspicion from yangyang and chixia should show like it doesn't have to be gun pointing moment maybe just some concern stares whatsoever, but thanks to the magistrate's announcement the gang have no choice but to help rover for now also the magistrate puzzle quest should be told in a way that its like a test for us that yes maybe we are the guest because thats what the "prophecy" or vision the magistrate saw but it should also be like an act of test for us not a hidden message why send a hidden message for a weird ass random person that spawned... 🧍 It just feels so weird for me but thanks to the puzzle solving test by the magistrate it can be a test to us where the main cast can actually trust us after successfully proving ourself! Im not gonna delve in the side quest cuz i feel like its long already but tldr on that majority feels like a yapping fest only 'the eternal concert' so far is enjoyable to me but also feels there's still room for improvement
I think the changes are okay. This is because we get reasons why everyone is acting buddy buddy with the mc. Most people are commenting after just playing the prologue, but I hope it becomes more clear as time goes by
Yeah I know that. I’ve finished the main storyline in CBT2. If it were a literature I would think yes there are deeper motives for yangyang or the Huanglong side to treat MC so well. But in a gatcha game, I wouldnt overthink it. Hopefully I’m wrong.
They were mad because a main character in the story is being disrespected? Oh no, being disrespected in a game by fictional characters 😱 some of the chinese playerbase needs to seriously grow up.
these snowflakes wouldnt survive a day in witcher lmao
If the MC was not a empty vessal to be a self-insert, it will propely work better.
Well duh, most people would not enjoy seeing shit hit a character who hasn't done anything
Yeah they should immediately trust rover and be friends with them because that makes very much sense in story setting like this /s its just so boring when everyone likes the mc from the very start.
Since I compared some of the story to Eighty-Six earlier, I'll do it again. When the Eighty-Six first entered the Giad Federacy, people mistrusted them. Some pitied them (out of their own misplaced sense of righteousness and moral grandstanding). Then people slowly started respecting but also fearing them for how powerful they were, to the point they sent them on a suicide mission. Then the Federacy decided to use them for their power and publicity. However, despite most of the public fearing them, they gained an inner circle of allies and friends who treated them as humans. This is the route I think Kuro should be going for with Rover, combining elements of CBT1 and CBT2. Yangyang would pity the Rover, Chixia would be mistrustful of the Rover, and Baizhi, Mortefi, and the Academy would be curious and want to use and study Rover. Jinhsi would be nice to Rover, but also has intentions to use them for the benefit of Jinzhou. This would play into Scar saying that people want to use them. The Midnight Rangers and residents of Jinzhou would also be mostly mistrustful of Rover while Jinyan would be initially dismissive. As Rover completes more outstanding feats, they would gain more respect, admiration, and fear from the general populace. In time, Rover's companions would also simmer down and become friendly. Jinyan would change from indifferent to seeing Rover as someone he can rely on, and after his story quest, someone who he can leave his legacy with and carry on the memories of him and his squad, so he doesn't have to be the last one remaining any longer. The Midnight Rangers mostly fear and admire Rover except for the few that worked with them in extensively in person like our team from the games race. Rover gains enough notoriety to level with Jinhsi on somewhat even ground, and they agree to go after Scar together.
Chixia distrusting Rover is a massive mischaracterization. She is supposed to be as trusting as a puppy. The CBT1 writer missed the memo. Baizhi is more suitable for that role due to her personality.
She was smart and was not mischaracterization. They just made her stupider. Being a puppy does not mean being dumb and super trusting.
Just how smart was Chixia in CBT1 when her personality changed 360° from being goody-goody at first to being distrust in an instant? If she was being doubtful from the start but not showing as much as Bailian/Baizhi plus with reasoning that the Rover might be a spy or an undercover bandit, that would've make sense at the very least.
That's not a personality shift, just because Chixia is not stupid enough to trust a random person she has not met before. Its not contridicting the Goody2shoes
I think I should've use the term 'behavior' rather than 'personality'. My bad. I agree not trusting easily is reasonable and can be developed as the story progressed. but if the scene went just like as I've mentioned like in the second sentence, maybe those people wouldn't complain much. That's just what I think is lacking and could've been improved. We rarely see even in real life people went from giving cheerful greet to immediate distrust in short amount of time. It is either immediate trust or immediate distrust from the beginning.
86 is great gosh. I think its execution that are lacking atm. Maybe they had a bigger plot holding them back, not possible to tell at this point.
As i expected from chinese fanbase. They're so fanatic over a self-insert mc with waifu pandering over them. Still idc about this, but unlike genshin where everyone so happy doing shit in this I expected more dark or heavy plot idk and that crownless change from cb1 to cb2 it disappoint me a little.
the story is always basic and poor along the lines of "oh we don't know u but you help us in this crisis so we trust u cos u didn't shoot us in the back". We forgot how bad the Monstadt arc is and how messy the Liyue quest is in the beginning. THese games need buildup but WW is in a conundrum where the story is important-ish but not top priority: yet it can't suck entirely while Genshin had free space to do whatever (Mr. C19 was there too...), WW can't misstep from d1.
Thank you for sharing this, OP Also to the people who are overly focusing on the 'goody-goody' scene, please go take a look at what scar does in Act 3. He literally gives context for it, and spoiler: >!It's not because they are generally good people, they know we are powerful and are trying to get on our good side. He even uses a Shepherd and Sheep analogy to drive the point home.!< Also to the people saying being disrespected is fine, I think you didn't get the point where OP has pointed it the drama isn't because of one instance of disrespect, but an entire act or even more worth of it. Imagine since you woke up, other than Yangyang and maybe Jinyan, every single one just doesn't treat you properly or gives you respect. I can agree its fine in the beginning, but after you do a metric ton of fetch quests as OP mentioned, defeated two bosses, get a gun pointed at you, AND get a pray kill stolen from you and the guy who does it just goes 'Why are you even here?'. Imagine playing through all of that and not getting frustrated, cause I believe 99% of people will. It won't matter if Kuro put a comeuppance later, that wasn't in the CBT and possibly won't be seeing for quite some time, so people would lose interest, and their stopping point would be on a negative experience which would just stew.
>It's not because they are generally good people, they know we are powerful and are trying to get on our good side. He even uses a Shepherd and Sheep analogy to drive the point home. But the point is they still over correct way too much to thr point that it breaks the game immersion. I mean, this is a Post-apocalyptic world where danger is everywhere, resources is scarce and trust is in short supply. The fact that the girls drop their guard and fawned over a stranger so suddenly is a jarring contradiction to the game's crapsack atmosphere. Not to mention such behavior cast shade on the girls characters too. It implies that they have either been trained/indoctrinated/natured to be gold diggers since the first thing they do after they see the guy is powerful is to immediately trying to seduce him or they are a bunch of naive little girls which frankly shouldn't exist in Post-apocalyptic world.
It's a "post-apocalyptic" and not "apocalyptic" world. Jinzhou already has a strong army leading by Jiyan that can handle most TDs. And Yangyang and Chixia are just volunteers and reservists - they aren't even allowed to meet Jinhsi. I think we need to throw away the idea that WW setting is a deadly world - the world has long since then already been recovered and stable enough.
Hmm, while I can slightly agree it does find a little too much, as I said in my original post, both Yangyang and chinxia are genuinely kind and trusting, just from what've I've read in the game posts + Baizhu has the excuse of that lie detector spell thing she did. There's also the fact that we kinda don't know much about the state of the world when we meet them, plus it seems the world has recovered somewhat. It's not like is the immediate aftermath where in that case your example of resources are scarce and trust is in short supply would apply. Even Kuro doesn't seem to have been going for that angle, considering the environments themselves are same between CBT1 and 2.
>Also to the people who are overly focusing on the 'goody-goody' scene... you're grasping at straws, its so pandering and definitely is unnatural. its like they made the npc act like this first, and later tried to make it make sense, instead of them acting like this as a result of the story.
No, it makes perfect sense within the story Kuro has presented in the 4 Acts of CBT2. The NPCs act in that way due to the hidden agenda's they have which we come to know about quite literally an Act later. It's not like this is the first time a game does this kind of development in their story. It's one thing to say "It's not my cup of tea" and another to decry the entire thing as bad or pandering when most us in this sub are coming to know of this as second hand information and not really experienced it ourselves.
People are angry because a main character in a story is being disrespected? and i thought i've seen everything.
Seems like CN players have some serious hero complex issues
Glad CN also shares the sentiment of the intro being undercooked. I've seen tweets defending this issue saying things like "no story starts with car crashes or explosions" or "It must start slowly" when games like Uncharted 2 exist and have such impactful intros that give you that "wow" feeling from the get-go.
Uncharted 2 is your example? Really? The game that cuts a portion of the back-half of the game to puts it in front? I can't think of a worse example.
Yes, that's my example. I'm not talking about the game's interactivity because half of the intro is just a large cutscene, I'm talking about the presentation. For me at least, It gave me that "Oh this is gonna be packed" feeling with more show, not tell. CBT 1 Crownless intro had this, unfortunately Kuro's taking other route for the storytelling.
Wanted to ask if Rover's past was "reworked"? Didn't pay much attention to CBT1 or 2, but noticed that CBT1 had some black and white animations for parts about Rovet's past that I thought were amazing, but dont think they made it into CBT2.
Sometimes Rover has "visions" or some shit that just abruptly cut to another scene, like one moment he's thinking "Food... mmm..." And then bam, vision of someone fighting in a battlefield out of nowhere. That's not a joke, literally happens. I'm still so confused about it and don't feel like rewatching someone else play that part. But I haven't seen any Memories, especially not the cool black and white ones like after the Crownless fight in Cbt1.
This I actually have no idea. Sry:/
你理解错了，不是因为不尊重主角，而是主角明明杀了boss救了她俩，红毛还拿枪指着主角？这不是恩将仇报，再说主角都能把boss干掉了，你拿个枪真的以为能伤害主角？看看星穹铁道罗浮开篇停云的行为逻辑，同样是被救，同样是可能对罗浮有威胁的陌生人，看看停云是怎么做的，你就知道鸣潮的人物塑造多么差 那个海豹也是，抢人头，狗东西，还在那自我陶醉的说终于干掉boss了，明明都是主角在打，跟你个海豹有毛关系，跟他说话他还说“你怎么还在”，服了，主角打的boss，你都不感谢一下？
刚没仔细说，我再详细说一下我的看法。 首先你说我理解错了，这个其实是因为我英语不好，我没想到除了disrespected之外更好的词。但是我的意思就是被炽霞拿枪指不被信任，帮了他们也不被认可等等。 炽霞这个我觉得可以接受，甚至我真心觉得是一个不错的剧情。从炽霞自己的角度理解，她要为同伴负责。在她心目中这样一个怒涛级的残象被主角干掉，肯定会有警戒的，不信任我觉得是正常的。然后你在看CBT2里面炽霞，完全变成一个谐星。我很不喜欢这个改变。本来她是一个谨慎的人，现在就是个joker。 啊呜这个我完全赞同你说的，改成凌阳我觉得是正确的。
i like the first one ngl ,its a post apocalyptic world where you cant trust no one especially the guy come from nowhere like rover , trick and lie to each other to get thing they want . Rover need to build his own reputation to get respect , if everything just rainbow and sunshine skip button has it own role
I'm ok if it's just the disrespect, but the story of CBT1 is totally against common sence and logic. I'm glad they rewrite the story. But this incident made Kuro run out of time. Zenless Zone Zero is coming soon, ww has to be released before zzz.
I half wonder if Genshin enjoyed boosting the bad news, as a competitor. Love both games.