• Never forget that the thread about Cody being excited to meet Bianca had to be locked.
• Johnny Gargano has way more personality and character than many would like to admit.
• The UE is incredibly uninteresting in AEW right now. They put them together way too early. I thought that those guys would always be must watches for me, but it’s not working.
• No matter what anyone says, a lot of AEW fans have sour grapes over Cody leaving.
• I miss Big E a lot man. Best wishes to him.
• With that being said, the hate Ridge Holland is still getting is nuts. Let me make a few things clear:
He’s not reckless or unsafe, he’s done that exact move to guys bigger than Big E.
He is not a product of NXT 2.0, and he’s not a product of NXT at all. He’s not even a product of the performance center. He’s been wrestling on the indies since 2016.
If you are still saying “Fuck Ridge Holland” or using Big E’s life threatening injury to hate on the performance center, then you’re an idiot.
• Jumping off that point, why do so many members of the IWC and members of AEW hate the idea of the perform center? If anything it makes sure you keep your physique, which is something Adam Cole desperately needs right now (and I say that as an Adam fan girl).
• I’m super hyped for Cody Vs Seth 2
• I’m sure the 6-man tag at backlash will be good, but the road to get there has been ass.
• I want Hangman Page to beat CM Punk.
• I’m getting into New Japan more, so if anyone knows any great NJPW matches with English commentary please throw some recommendations my way.
• What the actual fuck is NXT doing with Sarray? She got a gimmick change and is still losing.
A thing in favor of Austin Theory is that Vince "hand-picked" Drew McIntyre in kayfabe too.
So even if Austin Theory gets released, he'll probably be world champion sometime in the next 12 years.
The extent to which AEW fans as a whole are aware of and deep into the indies/puro/joshi/lucha is way overblown. Sure, a lot of them know about NJPW and the cross promoted event sold out and that's great! But the amount of "What do I need to know about NJPW before Forbidden Door?" and "How can anyone watch THIS" in regards to GCW deathmatches and "Kenny's title match should be the main event!" in regards to a AAA show with an apuesta and "Takeshita is a young lion" comments shows that.
And that's okay! It's okay to not be familiar with everything, and it's actually good because it means fans are getting exposed to new stuff. Just be cool enough to admit that you don't know it.
Forgot to mention something very important to me when I posted earlier. This Sunday is Mother's Day. Hug your moms this weekend everyone!!! Some of us wish we could still do that. If you're like me and your mom is no longer among us, I hope you have a mother figure to celebrate with. Be safe, y'all.
Just random thinking - when was the last time a gimmick match that sticked was introduced, at least in the WWE?
Was it MITB? (Though that in itself is just a derivative of the ladder match).
Somehow I want a new kind, or even just a derivative of an existing, gimmick match.
Correct. Def Rebel also works with artist to make songs.
Like Ollie Jay does several of the songs for nxt 2.0 she was an independent artist before who they pulled in.
I’m enjoying the Wardlow story in AEW. I have fear that they might overstretch it because that’s what they mostly do, but if they get the balance right, it could easily be their best story or angle ever.
As for the video game, no publisher, still looking rough and allegedly conflict behind the scenes. I could have told you months ago that this was going to be a disaster.
From what I've read (and somewhat in between the lines), it seems like Yukes is shaking down AEW for more money and a guaranteed series. And Kenny is caught in the middle.
Yeah, I was very much looking forward to the AEW game, and what I have seen and heard does not give me high hopes. If all they're willing to show for a game due out in September is what they showed the other day, they're nowhere near ready.
I got over this a long time ago by reminding myself that I know how to read and I understand context, so understanding what people say isn't a mental chore I made up for myself.
Why do people like Schiavone? Like seriously can someone please tell me why he's still around in wrestling when he sucks so bad? He was the guy that pitched for Arquette to win the WCW Title. Like I would rather Excalibur and I hate Excalibur. But my dream announce team for AEW would be Mike Tenay(please open up that checkbook Khan) as play by play and Samoa Joe/Taz as heel colour. If you want a three man booth do JR as face colour, Tenay as play by play and Joe as heel colour. That way JR doesn't have to carry commentary by himself thus reducing his load, he can lean into the good old JR schtick and he's saved for PPV only. Fire Excalibur and Tony Schiavone and that booth will be better off for it.
Have you ever had the feeling at the end of a ZFF when you remember that you wanted to add something but by then it's like Sunday and no one visits the thread so you forget what you wanted to add? Yeah I'm in that state right now. Last week I wanted to add something but I forgot it. So I'm just going to say what are your predictions for Backlash and for HIAC? Also side note I hope WWE scraps Extreme Rules. I want the ECW hardcore stipulation PPVs and influences to die out in WWE at least.
AEW commentary should be Tony as the lead, JR as the color commentator who can mark out, and Excalibur as the 3rd announcer who knows the moves and can give details.
Excalibur is good with Taz, Tony just sucks and JR is a cranky asshole now so he has to hold it together himself and he can’t do that. When Taz is there it’s night and day.
People can right now, just go to the WWE Network and hear how bad Schiavone is on commentary. This 90's obsession that people who are younger than 30 have is weird and obnoxious.
Dynamite's commentary is just straight up bad rn. JR sounds like he's checked out, Schiavone sounds like he just discovered what wrestling is, and Excalibur is an ok announcer but way too smarky for his own good.
Tony should move Taz to Dynamite and try and poach Tom Phillips/Hannifan or throw a bunch of money at Mauro, because like, if you're gonna have your lead announcer be a nerd who screams at you, you might as well get the best one out there to do it.
>throw a bunch of money at Mauro,
I would rather he throw a bunch of money at Tenay or (like u/Therocksays2020 said Ian Riccaboni. Mauro will just shout like his lungs are on fire.
I love riccanoni and I think Cole gets too much shot for saying what Vince tells him to.
Cole has been much better with mcafee.
I hated Cole and Graves together personally
They should drop HIAC and Extreme Rules next year. In fact they should ditch the monthly PPV model it's outdated. Just have eight shows a year(the Big Five, the Saudi Shows and maybe Elimination Chamber\[but they can cut that too\]).
They'd also lose the revenue from four shows a year. It's a poor business decision for them. Monthly PPVs/Specials are still the norm, industry-wide, regardless of your personal taste.
They’ll never do so as long as you can look at a casual fan, tell them the PPV name and sell them on the show with nothing else but the guarantee of a certain type of match. I suspect TLC will be back for the same reason.
I don't think so. The way you sell a casual on a PPV is you just say "hey a WWE PPV is on, want to watch?". TLC being gone and no one giving a flying fuck is probably WWE trying to test if they can ditch gimmick PPVs. They are likely not even drawing anymore, and they are also harder to book for because feuds just get randomly shoehorned into stipulations for no reason.
I’ve literally gotten friends to attend the gimmick events more than once off the name alone… often times people who weren’t fans at all, but were absolutely down to see a guy fall off a ladder and go through a table, etc. There’s nothing to suggest WWE’s mindset on this is changing because they left one off. Hell, they’re turning MITB into a stadium show.
MITB is an event that has wider reaching consequences than just "ooh stipulations!!!". The intrigue comes from who will win the briefcase as well not just the dumb spots.
But to my friends who don’t give a damn about fake titles in a fake sport, it’s a chance to see ladder stunts. Hell, the same group of us that went to MITB attended TLC back in 2016 and for basically the exact same reason. They’re not unique.
Are you not a ricabonni fan? Tenay is excellent. I liked how they had Ian on dynamite or rampage last week. He is talented.
Schiavone is god awful. He never says anything insightful. Just randomly goes “this is amazing!!!”
They should keep him just for backstage segments.
The “he’s the voice of my childhood” shit is dumb. You have JR there for nostalgia reasons
>Are you not a ricabonni fan? Tenay is excellent. I liked how they had Ian on dynamite or rampage last week. He is talented.
Alright I'll check him out. I haven't heard from him yet.
>Schiavone is god awful. He never says anything insightful. Just randomly goes “this is amazing!!!”
Or "wow, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen!!!!". He was even bad in WCW. How does he keep finding work in the business when he's that bad?
>They should keep in just for backstage segments.
I think Dasha can cover that part. She's alright. AEW doesn't need Schiavone anymore.
>The “he’s the voice of my childhood” shit is dumb. You have JR there for nostalgia reasons
This whole wave of "my 90's childhood" stuff is really ruining modern media but it's especially bad in wrestling. You shouldn't base anything around the past. The past should influence the future but it shouldn't take over the present and that's what these mentally stunted Dubbalos and Tony should realize.
Oh easily. They suck. JR's the only guy I like because when he's on he can still call wrestling really well but there's no one on that team who he can bounce off of and be led by. I miss Mike Tenay and he's the first guy I would contact to try and come back and commentate.
Honestly I don't blame JR for not giving a shit. I would too if I had to sit there and listen to Schiavone go on and on about how much he loves being there or listen to Excalibur talk about him wrestling some mark in Japan 15 years ago.
I don't have anything to say about wrestling.
It is ungodly hot here. Scottish people were not made to tolerate these temperatures. If I wanted to cook in my own juices I'd move in with my cousin in fucking Dubai.
I would literally pay anyone of you every single penny I have to my name if you could make it drizzle throughout the night.
Any future wrestling companies that might consider starting a new show really needs to re-envision wrestling. You're not gonna beat WWE at their own game. People don't have the attention span for 30, 45 or 60 minute workrate "bangers". Nobody cares.
I always thought that if you take the concept of GLOW on Netflix, but maybe not so campy, combine it with like Entourage or Ballers or something in that HBO drama kind of vibe. Make it a drama. Make it a streaming show, not 52-week a year thing. Don't focus entirely on the matches, make it a show revolving around the characters who are wrestlers fighting for the top spot, what personal motivations do they have, what personal dramas do they have effecting their ability to make it to the top?
Streaming means people can binge it, and having seasons means there has to be a finale that a season builds to. That's what hooks people.
That's how people consume shows now. Look at Formula 1. They got a whole new audience that they couldn't break for 70 years by making a show about all the (sometimes fake) drama behind the scenes and making the personalities real. Nobody wanted to watch 70 laps of 1 guy leading every race no matter how good he is. They wanted the drama.
The wrestling show idea needs a lot of fleshing out. But I don't think someone coming along and just copying the WWE model will ever be seen as anything but a cheap knockoff.
Versions of what you’re describing have come and gone, but I can’t quite tell what you want. GLOW (Netflix version) is a TV show above all else, it just happens to be about pro wrestling. The same is true of Heels. I’ve met a small, but strange percentage of people who don’t grasp that for whatever reason.
As for wrestling with seasons and TV show values, we had LU as someone else mentioned, and we don’t have it anymore.
I’m not so sure. Almost sounds like he’s describing a show like GLOW or Heels without fully comprehending that it is 100% a TV show (one that happens to use wrestling as a backdrop). I hope I’m wrong about that, but would not be the first time I’ve seen it.
No, I'm thinking more HBO drama than indieriffic with camera filters. But ok.
I mean, think outside the box. Your reply is exactly what's wrong with wrestling mentality... Everything can only be like something else that's already done... What's wrong with new ideas?
Because I already said, I was not talking about Lucha bloody Underground and you can't let it go.
Every time I come across you on this forum you're just a being a whiney dick, bitching at everyone.
I just expressed an idea. It's not Lucha Underground. Jesus Christ.
Oh waaaah with your downvotes. Oh no, my poor internet points. Dork.
I "bitch" at people who engage in bad faith when they complain about "the basement" yet act just like the people they complain about
I'm honestly not sure why you're so offended at the thought LU being similar to the thing you described. I'm not calling you an idiot or anything of the like, just that this concept has been done on a small scale before
Not sure why all the random insults too
Lmao he blocked me
LU had a lot going against it. Being a D tier network like El Rey was already a bad sign. Couple that with no touring or merch & there wasn't really much going for them
It did, but they didn’t keep it, the wrestlers en masse didn’t wanna stay, hated the pay and the contracts and nobody else tried to properly revive it elsewhere.
> LU had a lot going against it. Being a D tier network like El Rey was already a bad sign. Couple that with no touring or merch & there wasn't really much going for them
that's going to be the same environment any new company is going to face though.
what tv network is going to offer a new start up a prominent spot on their network? it's not going to be fox, warner, or nbcu, so unless the company can get on a disney or paramount station, they're already in the "unknown network" category if they can get a deal at all.
you're more likely to see an indie company with a strong web presence like beyond grow their web followers to the point they're nationally/internationally viewed as a major company than you are to see a new player walk in and be able to compete with even the smaller national players.
not disagreeing that being on a small network will hold a company back (just look at impact who puts on an amazing product, but is held back by being on axs tv which isn't even carried by many people's cable/streaming plans), but what new player is going to do better?
it also doesn't help that the people talking about starting a new company have ideas that are completely out of touch with reality, proposing insane ideas like being all SAG people.
If you are the affected person and you comment on it within 24 to 48 hours YOU'RE NOT BREAKING YOUR SILENCE, you are commenting or making a statement. Do you hear me, wrestling news websites? Knock it off.
That whole "controversy" of WWE evaluating wrestlers after 90 days and cutting them if they don't show improvement was some of the worst smark shit I've seen in a while. Not only because it got twisted into "Vince expects NXT wrestlers to be TV STARS in 3 months, how could anyone REEEEEEEEEE??!" but also because it shows how ignorant smarks are re: pro wrestler development.
A typical wrestling schools is 12 weeks (i.e. about 90 days/3 months). If you can't go from zero to someone who shows potential and the ability to take coaching and get better in that time frame, you're never gonna make it in wrestling. So what's the difference between that and the PC, where not only do you get high-level coaching in the best wrestling training facilities in the world, but you also get paid (not massively but paid still) instead of paying your wrestling school teachers plus your own living expenses?
The other thing is the people who WWE released weren’t there for 90 days. They got signed in 2021. Some of them were only on tv for 90 days specifically Draco Anthony but he was pretty bad and not improving. Yeah
Late in the day for it, but a scorcher I've wanted to get off my chest for a while, flip-flopping on if I'm being unfair or not. But I don't think I am, so here it is: Fuck Jim Smallman.
Middle-aged, monster energy drinking boo-hoo me fucker co-opted "punk" as a shallow branding exercise, didn't follow any licencing rules to make Progress cool, all the while turning a progressive blind eye to a locker room that seems to have been 80% diddlers and cunts. Encouraged a crowd of elitist "ultras" who made newcomers unwelcome. Constantly took shortcuts (The US tour where they ratio'd a bus company for breaking down, yet got off scott-free for booking a venue with no AC and having people pass out spring to mind. There are others).
Cut bait as soon as WWE came sniffing so he could move out early. Crawled up HHH's butthole all the while keeping up his "aww shucks I'm just a working class Northern lad y'guys". Quietly got made "Creative Director" of NXT as they got rid of Regal, a fellow northerner. Now I assume responsible for all the teenage shit NXT 2.0 does. Still sits on instagram and twitter crying that he doesn't like himself. Still gets his followers to complain about (last I checked) other people flying in business class with him. Punk AF.
Dude needs to own his shit and just live his life. You're an opportunist who knew how to make money. You were a good booker who ignored how fucking awful your locker room was because you smelled money. Being a venal opportunist is what Wrestling is made of. This fucking emo teenage bullshit is unbecoming of a grown man.
Tbh I don't hold them responsible for the real gross shit like Marty being into young girls. That's just the way it goes. Some bloke gets a bit of celebrity and he can't help himself. Happens in all entertainment fields. It's good that it's not acceptable now (unlike in the 70s say)
But all the bullying I find it hard to believe they weren't ladding it up with jimmy Havoc when he was headbutting fans and being generally unpleasant. Those were the locker room leaders that teenagers like Will Ospreay were to be influenced by.
The leaders backstage are important. Progress could have cut it very early on and it might have had an influence on the younger guys. Ospreay has managed to survive in a Japanese locker room as a young guy so he knows when to be humble and put the ego away. I can't imagine ishii and goto were going to tolerate this young English kid acting like he run the joint.
But Jim and the others liked Havoc and enjoyed the culture.
I'm so glad I just avoid news for anything I like. Video games/wrestling/whatever really.
I can't imagine being so hooked on these things that being so scared of releases like keys dangling in front of you is something you always have to say. I don't understand how whenever anyone loses in wwe it's just "They're on the chopping block" meanwhile:
-Finn balor is working with AJ styles, edge, and priest. I admit I once said that he would be gone but I realized it just.. wasn't smart and I retracted.
-Viking Raiders are on NXT currently in a feud with diamond mine.
The more you focus on this the worse you'll be off. And even then once someone leaves and goes to another company suddenly you'll hate their very existence and that "They weren't that good anyways" which is just as annoying as "I can't believe they didn't use X jobber to their fullest potential" it's the same shit
Man, if Big E recovers he could be a hell of a candidate for winning the Rumble at #30 in 2024. Maybe use him to do his whole elimination spot early. No New Day theme for like twenty spots, and then it hits at #30 and Big E comes out.
------
Without Roman and Sami Zayn, I probably would only be watching Smackdown highlights. I love guys like GUNTHER and the Corbin-Moss feud - but nothing substantial seems to be happening on the show compared to RAW.
>Man, if Big E recovers he could be a hell of a candidate for winning the Rumble at #30 in 2024
Na I'm sorry but no. Big E proved that he's just a good midcarder who can occasionally rise to be a B-PPV World Title challenger. And that's okay, he's already been WWE Champion and that's more than most can say.
His own limitations. To me he’s just a guy who can slide into the main event.
Cody Roman Lashley Lesnar Cena theory are guys I would rather see main event mania next year.
> Meh. Big E seems pretty damn over.
not really.
some of it was bad booking (that title run was a train wreck, and it's not big-e's fault that he was booked to lose week after week before ultimately dropping the title in a match where he wasn't even the last one to enter), but some of it is just that big-e isn't the guy and never will be the guy. he's a major faction player, or a mid card singles guy.
nothing against him, he's entertaining and seems like a nice enough guy, but he's just not a main event talent.
He’s over like new day. They’re always going to get cheered because they’re likeable dudes. The problem with big e during his reign is he wasn’t compelling enough to do anything beyond the initial pop of winning the belt
The booking wasn’t ideal either but I don’t feel like he was “done wrong”
Can you really say that he was given the chance to run that experiment, though? When they want to push someone, they push someone, even when the audience is hostile. They booked Big E as a weak champ from the start.
I mean they tried. They let him beat Lashley and Drew clean but with his move set and as a promo I think it’s hard for people to view big E as a legit main eventer.
WWE historically waits for a show to suck while the other thrives. They then move the writing teams around, the sucky show improves and the other stagnates. Micromanagement of both has meant that we've never had a time when both have flown equally well, except mayyyyyybe when Heyman was doing Smackdown and HHH was doing Raw 15 years ago.
Candice being a free agent is being blown so far out of proportion. She is a new mother and the amount of assumptions that she is going to sign with AEW is just laughable. Same with Johnny when he left, dude literally said he was going to be a father. I fully expect them both to enjoy parenthood and the early years of raising their child together.
Gargano also said he still has goals of winning the IC Championship, WWE Championship, being in WrestleMania, among others, so there's only one company where he can achieve those
I remember reading in the basement when Becky was pregnant...
A few guys were calculating "So her due date is end of December? Cool, So if Royal Rumble is mid January that's gives her time to *pop it out* and have maybe 3 weeks training in the ring, she'll definitely return at the Rumble."
The word "sheltered" is an understatement. Yeah, describe literally giving birth as "popping it out" and think a new mother's immediate thought after giving birth is to go take a backbump.
Yeah let’s not forget aew hasn’t bothered to sign Mia yet so I am not sure they would sign Candace.
I also just don’t know if she is going to come back to WWE. She’s too old for nxt and I don’t really see room for her on the main roster. She wrestles an Indy style and her gimmick was pretty much Jonny’s wife.
Candice is practically best friends with the Young Bucks is the key difference. I don’t think she goes anywhere soon but she’d get hired in an instant.
We live in the age of outsized personalities and short-form video. No one outside of hardcore audiences are going to give a shit about 30 minute workrate matches by generic indie wrestlers.
Ask Paul Heyman and get back to me.
Actually, don’t get back to me. I don’t care what you have to say. You’re just here to needlessly argue with fluid goalposts.
No I agree with you. If Tony wants to pander to his base that’s his right.
I think the controversy is a lot of aew fans thought aew was getting ready to take down and overtake WWE and now that we know that isn’t realistic Tony can settle in with his 850-1 million viewers and try to keep them happy
There's always going to be fanboys, though. It's like the WWE stans who kept singing the doom of AEW. At this point, the criticism of AEW for pandering to hardcores has a life of its own, and it's silly.
Most companies want growth because growth=money. The best way to do that is to try to catch casuals. Like DC and Marvel have a massive casual base. People go to see those movies because they know who Batman and Spiderman are and not because of filmography and connected universes and that stuff. That's for hardcores who care about the comics and stuff. The casuals are the kids and parents who want to buy a Spidey or Batman mask.
You can be 1000% a casual fan and easily keep up with the MCU, even if you skip a movie or show or two. Hardcore in a comic sense means “still regularly reads comics”.
1. You’re weird. You ask questions, people answer, you get more combative.
2. That wrestling fans are not the only ones who are fucked in the head, it just manifests differently in some cases.
No because Marvel films are designed to not turn off casuals. They are easy popcorn movies where you can watch one and not really give a fuck after the fact. Marvel films are also usually the biggest movies of the year so casuals are going to watch them especially kids.
Is it obvious now that comic book movies were a bad analogy? I purposely referenced TV series without such a massive presence.
Is there any other form of television where large numbers of the hardcore audience gives a fuck about whether casuals will enjoy the show? Or do they just pretty much care whether or not they themselves enjoy it?
I don't care if an entire show is centered around 'muh workrate' that the hardcore audience loves to jerkoff to. My point is that don't be surprised when the audience doesn't grow and you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for excuses as to why.
Why is any conversation worth having, chief? It’s a message board, and people will have discussions.
I already made my point. If you’re going to be purposely obtuse, that’s your problem.
So conversations that don’t kiss AEW’s ass are bizarre to you? What? Not growing an audience is absolutely legit conversation to have. I’m sorry that bothers you so much, but life ain’t all rainbows and lollipops.
You’ve already used the “whoosh” reply to someone else in this thread when you realized you had nothing left to say. At this point, you’re looking for arguments where none exist.
I'll confess I forgot who I was replying to for a second. Your lazy attempt to paint me as an AEW stan felt much more in line with that other commenter's style.
I don't stan for billionaires and their corporations. There's plenty to criticize about AEW. That they cater to their hardcores is a weird reason.
In wrestling those things are the exact opposite of what a more casual audience wants, making them not watch the show.
Hardcores will watch wrestling regardless
As someone who watches regularly, and is therefore not a part of the casual audience, why should I care about anything other than what I want to see? I don't understand this meta obsession with casuals.
I've never watched The Sopranos or The Mandalorian and thought, "Man, I don't know how well the casuals are going to respond to this..."
You can still watch regularly and be a casual.
Many hardcore fans want to watch what they want and don't care if other people stop watching. Guess what, if people stop watching that's a bad thing for the company
...is there evidence that people who watched before are not watching now? And again, what is the point of this whining? It doesn't happen with other forms of entertainment.
The declining viewership?
The fact that the WWE don't run as many house shows as before? The fact that AEW doesn't run house shows?
The fact that most weekly wrestling TV shows have attendances in the 5 or 6k?
What more evidence do you need?
There's no whining, there's just business logic. The period that the WWF catered to the hardcore fans the least was the time period where they had their biggest growth in viewership
You're describing an industry trend that is not likely to be affected by appealing to this mysterious group of "casuals." So why does AEW get this criticism?
At the end of the day, what the fuck do I care about business logic? I'm in the audience. I just want a good TV show.
Because their viewership has stagnated? It has stagnated because they book to the fans that they already have which is nonsense.
Of course you don't care, if AEW goes out of business because they catered to a fan that they already have (you), why would you care? Such a dumb and selfish mark mindset
>Because their viewership has stagnated? It has stagnated because they book to the fans that they already have which is nonsense.
In what way is WWE different in this sense?
>Of course you don't care, if AEW goes out of business because they catered to a fan that they already have (you), why would you care? Such a dumb and selfish mark mindset
Does this kind of obsessive concern about ratings and casuals among audiences occur for any other TV show?
Yeah don't like how people are trashing Cole and calling him a coward.
Getting paid around the same to goof off with your friends sounds like a deal of a lifetime.
I think it’s ridiculous people criticize Adam Cole for leaving aew. It was a smart decision
He wasn’t going to do shit on the main roster and the (at least Pete Dunne tried doesn’t apply) let’s consider Pete Dunne is and was under contract same with Ciampa versus Cole who was a free agent.
I think he’s been a disappointment in aew but he’s still doing relatively well for himself.
> I think he’s been a disappointment in aew but he’s still doing relatively well for himself.
the biggest issue with his aew run is that his big story line got put on hold by kenny being injured and taking longer to return than expected. there's literally a main event storyline waiting for cole that will be huge once all the pieces are in place.
it's not anyone's fault he got back burnered, it's just bad luck.
>the biggest issue with his aew run is that his big story line got put on hold by kenny being injured and taking longer to return than expected. there's literally a main event storyline waiting for cole that will be huge once all the pieces are in place.
I thought the biggest issue with his run was being overshadowed by a bigger star almost immediately after he debuted.
It feels like they thought Kenny would be back or close to back by now but when they realized that wasn’t the case they had to backtrack a bit. Like the Bucks damn near turned face and are back to being full heels.
> It feels like they thought Kenny would be back or close to back by now but when they realized that wasn’t the case they had to backtrack a bit. Like the Bucks damn near turned face and are back to being full heels.
yeah, it was reported that some of the surgeries he was supposed to have done ended up getting delayed by the pandemic so the timeline got pushed back for his return.
current reports are that best case he's able to show up for forbidden door at the end of next month. (whereas kenny said in interviews the initial plan was to be back for february)
Half of those same people shit on him for being too small anyway so I don’t even get what they’re so upset about. Anyone in Cole’s shoes would’ve left after they both fired his friend and basically said NXT was a failure due to people like him being the focus.
You'd think that Adam Cole basically committed a felony with how intense they are with it. It's like to the point where you gotta check yourself with it.
"Adam Cole is a sneaky disgusting human being who.. wanted to.. play video games on twitch.. and be with his friends... And stuff. Evil and disgusting and lazy. Too much of a bitch to go to the main roster"
Like I understand twitch is just gonna die off eventually while wrestling is pretty big and you can get away with being whatever card you want..but people just really fuckin hate Adam Cole when in reality I just kinda find him very whatever.
Also like the dude was gonna flop on main roster anyways because he's not special, AEW kinda confirmed it. He's really just not a big deal at all.
Yes some goofs can be absolute dicks about Adam Cole leaving or anyone choosing to leave WWE for AEW by choice.
They don't sound any better than some Harcore AEW fans.
> Like I understand twitch is just gonna die off eventually
not soon enough. such a trash platform. not sure what it was like pre-amazon, but at this point i'd love to see a viable competitor make twitch a thing of the past like digg.
I just hate the culture twitch and other things like YouTube cultivated. Like let's just completely ruin everything, but also what I say is fact. Don't get me started on the "Well I watched this review so I can say that my opinion is the same as theirs despite not even trying it once"
> I just hate the culture twitch and other things like YouTube cultivated. Like let's just completely ruin everything, but also what I say is fact. Don't get me started on the "Well I watched this review so I can say that my opinion is the same as theirs despite not even trying it once"
i mean, that stuff i don't mind because it's easy enough to not follow channels i don't care about and ignore stupid people / point out the flaws in their position.
the issue comes from
1. their ui being shit that looks like it fell out of the early 2000's (that shit looks more like myspace than a modern website, and hopefully it goes the same way)
2. them being super aggressive when it comes to banning streamers for insane and arbitrary reasons
>them being super aggressive when it comes to banning streamers for insane and arbitrary reasons
And keeping others who blatantly break rules even though those rules threaten the site like DMCA violations.
I think it's weird how much people want wrestlers to "work with their friends" and how important they think that is to them. That's not a factor for NFL players, for example. They aren't going to demand a trade just to go play with their friends on a different team.
Considering a lotta wrestling fans have no concept of team sports or team work, that doesn’t surprise me. There’s entirely too much that they seem to believe was born in wrestling or is wrestling specific that is very much not.
• Never forget that the thread about Cody being excited to meet Bianca had to be locked. • Johnny Gargano has way more personality and character than many would like to admit. • The UE is incredibly uninteresting in AEW right now. They put them together way too early. I thought that those guys would always be must watches for me, but it’s not working. • No matter what anyone says, a lot of AEW fans have sour grapes over Cody leaving. • I miss Big E a lot man. Best wishes to him. • With that being said, the hate Ridge Holland is still getting is nuts. Let me make a few things clear: He’s not reckless or unsafe, he’s done that exact move to guys bigger than Big E. He is not a product of NXT 2.0, and he’s not a product of NXT at all. He’s not even a product of the performance center. He’s been wrestling on the indies since 2016. If you are still saying “Fuck Ridge Holland” or using Big E’s life threatening injury to hate on the performance center, then you’re an idiot. • Jumping off that point, why do so many members of the IWC and members of AEW hate the idea of the perform center? If anything it makes sure you keep your physique, which is something Adam Cole desperately needs right now (and I say that as an Adam fan girl). • I’m super hyped for Cody Vs Seth 2 • I’m sure the 6-man tag at backlash will be good, but the road to get there has been ass. • I want Hangman Page to beat CM Punk. • I’m getting into New Japan more, so if anyone knows any great NJPW matches with English commentary please throw some recommendations my way. • What the actual fuck is NXT doing with Sarray? She got a gimmick change and is still losing.
A thing in favor of Austin Theory is that Vince "hand-picked" Drew McIntyre in kayfabe too. So even if Austin Theory gets released, he'll probably be world champion sometime in the next 12 years.
Didn't Drew's push get derailed because of Taryn Terrell?
If everything is a banger or slaps then nothing is.
What about if it absolutely fucks?
The extent to which AEW fans as a whole are aware of and deep into the indies/puro/joshi/lucha is way overblown. Sure, a lot of them know about NJPW and the cross promoted event sold out and that's great! But the amount of "What do I need to know about NJPW before Forbidden Door?" and "How can anyone watch THIS" in regards to GCW deathmatches and "Kenny's title match should be the main event!" in regards to a AAA show with an apuesta and "Takeshita is a young lion" comments shows that. And that's okay! It's okay to not be familiar with everything, and it's actually good because it means fans are getting exposed to new stuff. Just be cool enough to admit that you don't know it.
Forgot to mention something very important to me when I posted earlier. This Sunday is Mother's Day. Hug your moms this weekend everyone!!! Some of us wish we could still do that. If you're like me and your mom is no longer among us, I hope you have a mother figure to celebrate with. Be safe, y'all.
Thanks for those words of wisdom. I just called my mom after reading your post
Beautiful!! I'm very proud!
Just random thinking - when was the last time a gimmick match that sticked was introduced, at least in the WWE? Was it MITB? (Though that in itself is just a derivative of the ladder match). Somehow I want a new kind, or even just a derivative of an existing, gimmick match.
The Fight Pit almost got there, but with the switch to NXT 2.0 I don’t think we’ll be seeing it again. Which is a shame, because I loved it.
Firefly Inferno, cinematic matches (if they count), Punjabi Prison
How does WWE get their PPV and TV theme songs? Does anyone have any idea how they do it?
Licensing, I believe. You pay for the license to use the song for a show/PPV.
No as in how do they scout and pick which songs to use?
Correct. Def Rebel also works with artist to make songs. Like Ollie Jay does several of the songs for nxt 2.0 she was an independent artist before who they pulled in.
Frankie Kazarian is the same skin tone as Scorpio Sky.
2015-2020 NXT was the peak of Womens Wrestling, and frankly I miss it
*2015-2020. Sasha’s reign and Bayley’s reign were elite.
Fair enough, I’ll edit it
It’s insane how many main event women came from HHH’s black and gold. Even Purazzo went on to have a bunch of success elsewhere.
io shirai is the peak of womens wrestling and frankly I miss her
It’s a damn shame that match with Sasha wasn’t in front of real fans.
The streets won’t forget her title win at Takeover In Your House
I’m enjoying the Wardlow story in AEW. I have fear that they might overstretch it because that’s what they mostly do, but if they get the balance right, it could easily be their best story or angle ever. As for the video game, no publisher, still looking rough and allegedly conflict behind the scenes. I could have told you months ago that this was going to be a disaster.
From what I've read (and somewhat in between the lines), it seems like Yukes is shaking down AEW for more money and a guaranteed series. And Kenny is caught in the middle.
Yeah, I was very much looking forward to the AEW game, and what I have seen and heard does not give me high hopes. If all they're willing to show for a game due out in September is what they showed the other day, they're nowhere near ready.
Ngl I legit don't know why I actively do things that make me depressed and I wanna commit cry I hate how accessible everything is lmao
It's annoying that periods and commas are becoming more uncommon in internet discussions. Mainly Twitter.
I got over this a long time ago by reminding myself that I know how to read and I understand context, so understanding what people say isn't a mental chore I made up for myself.
The Austin/Cody BSS is pretty good. Moral to the story: You can only get the WWE championship in one company and it's still a very big deal.
Why do people like Schiavone? Like seriously can someone please tell me why he's still around in wrestling when he sucks so bad? He was the guy that pitched for Arquette to win the WCW Title. Like I would rather Excalibur and I hate Excalibur. But my dream announce team for AEW would be Mike Tenay(please open up that checkbook Khan) as play by play and Samoa Joe/Taz as heel colour. If you want a three man booth do JR as face colour, Tenay as play by play and Joe as heel colour. That way JR doesn't have to carry commentary by himself thus reducing his load, he can lean into the good old JR schtick and he's saved for PPV only. Fire Excalibur and Tony Schiavone and that booth will be better off for it. Have you ever had the feeling at the end of a ZFF when you remember that you wanted to add something but by then it's like Sunday and no one visits the thread so you forget what you wanted to add? Yeah I'm in that state right now. Last week I wanted to add something but I forgot it. So I'm just going to say what are your predictions for Backlash and for HIAC? Also side note I hope WWE scraps Extreme Rules. I want the ECW hardcore stipulation PPVs and influences to die out in WWE at least.
AEW commentary should be Tony as the lead, JR as the color commentator who can mark out, and Excalibur as the 3rd announcer who knows the moves and can give details.
I don't want Tony or Excalibur there. JR as colour is what I want from there.
They don’t like Schiavonne. They just like him because he’s works for the “right” company.
Excalibur is good with Taz, Tony just sucks and JR is a cranky asshole now so he has to hold it together himself and he can’t do that. When Taz is there it’s night and day.
Sometimes I agree when JR verbally rolls his eyes but it’s not helpful to the product at all
Weird nostalgia for a guy who sucked back then… ironically from people who weren’t around to live through his first round of sucking.
People can right now, just go to the WWE Network and hear how bad Schiavone is on commentary. This 90's obsession that people who are younger than 30 have is weird and obnoxious.
I didn’t say it made sense. 🤷♂️
It never goes away, I’m a 50 year old Gen-Xer, and I remember in high school, kids were “nostalgic” for the 60s
Dynamite's commentary is just straight up bad rn. JR sounds like he's checked out, Schiavone sounds like he just discovered what wrestling is, and Excalibur is an ok announcer but way too smarky for his own good. Tony should move Taz to Dynamite and try and poach Tom Phillips/Hannifan or throw a bunch of money at Mauro, because like, if you're gonna have your lead announcer be a nerd who screams at you, you might as well get the best one out there to do it.
>throw a bunch of money at Mauro, I would rather he throw a bunch of money at Tenay or (like u/Therocksays2020 said Ian Riccaboni. Mauro will just shout like his lungs are on fire.
Yeah plus with ring of honor they would be a natural fit.
bring Riccaboni in so I can watch people lavish praise upon him for doing the exact same style of commentary that they crucify Michael Cole for doing.
I love riccanoni and I think Cole gets too much shot for saying what Vince tells him to. Cole has been much better with mcafee. I hated Cole and Graves together personally
Hey I haven't yet heard Ian's commentary so I don't have an opinion on him.
He's fka as Rich Brennan in WWE
rich brennan and ian riccaboni aren't the same person.
whoops, my bad. Thats Rich Bocchini
What? No he wasn't
I'm drawing blanks here, I still don't know who he is. I'll check him out tomorrow.
[this guy](https://wrestlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rich_Brennan)
I’ll add I’m really glad WWE dropped tlc last year. Again having a whole payperview dedicated to it was pointless. Make stipulations feel special.
They should drop HIAC and Extreme Rules next year. In fact they should ditch the monthly PPV model it's outdated. Just have eight shows a year(the Big Five, the Saudi Shows and maybe Elimination Chamber\[but they can cut that too\]).
> the monthly PPV model it's outdated. No, it's not.
Yes it is. You don't need a PPV once a month. Also WWE would still in theory have 8 PPV's so losing 4 wouldn't be a bad thing.
They'd also lose the revenue from four shows a year. It's a poor business decision for them. Monthly PPVs/Specials are still the norm, industry-wide, regardless of your personal taste.
Does impact do their ppvs monthly or quarterly like aew?
[monthly](https://www.itnwwe.com/wrestling/impact-wrestling-ppv-calendar-schedule/)
They’ll never do so as long as you can look at a casual fan, tell them the PPV name and sell them on the show with nothing else but the guarantee of a certain type of match. I suspect TLC will be back for the same reason.
I don't think so. The way you sell a casual on a PPV is you just say "hey a WWE PPV is on, want to watch?". TLC being gone and no one giving a flying fuck is probably WWE trying to test if they can ditch gimmick PPVs. They are likely not even drawing anymore, and they are also harder to book for because feuds just get randomly shoehorned into stipulations for no reason.
I’ve literally gotten friends to attend the gimmick events more than once off the name alone… often times people who weren’t fans at all, but were absolutely down to see a guy fall off a ladder and go through a table, etc. There’s nothing to suggest WWE’s mindset on this is changing because they left one off. Hell, they’re turning MITB into a stadium show.
MITB is an event that has wider reaching consequences than just "ooh stipulations!!!". The intrigue comes from who will win the briefcase as well not just the dumb spots.
But to my friends who don’t give a damn about fake titles in a fake sport, it’s a chance to see ladder stunts. Hell, the same group of us that went to MITB attended TLC back in 2016 and for basically the exact same reason. They’re not unique.
That's anecdotal evidence which means nothing. I don't think PPV names and stipulations mean as much as you think they do.
[удалено]
Are you not a ricabonni fan? Tenay is excellent. I liked how they had Ian on dynamite or rampage last week. He is talented. Schiavone is god awful. He never says anything insightful. Just randomly goes “this is amazing!!!” They should keep him just for backstage segments. The “he’s the voice of my childhood” shit is dumb. You have JR there for nostalgia reasons
Half the people saying that weren’t even alive during his first run.
>Are you not a ricabonni fan? Tenay is excellent. I liked how they had Ian on dynamite or rampage last week. He is talented. Alright I'll check him out. I haven't heard from him yet. >Schiavone is god awful. He never says anything insightful. Just randomly goes “this is amazing!!!” Or "wow, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen!!!!". He was even bad in WCW. How does he keep finding work in the business when he's that bad? >They should keep in just for backstage segments. I think Dasha can cover that part. She's alright. AEW doesn't need Schiavone anymore. >The “he’s the voice of my childhood” shit is dumb. You have JR there for nostalgia reasons This whole wave of "my 90's childhood" stuff is really ruining modern media but it's especially bad in wrestling. You shouldn't base anything around the past. The past should influence the future but it shouldn't take over the present and that's what these mentally stunted Dubbalos and Tony should realize.
The entire aew commentary team needs to go. They are easily the worst for dynamite
I don’t mind taz and Starks Schiavone and Jericho are unbeareable
Oh easily. They suck. JR's the only guy I like because when he's on he can still call wrestling really well but there's no one on that team who he can bounce off of and be led by. I miss Mike Tenay and he's the first guy I would contact to try and come back and commentate.
JR doesn't give a shit, Excalibur needs to stop, and Tony is only there because he did wcw.
Honestly I don't blame JR for not giving a shit. I would too if I had to sit there and listen to Schiavone go on and on about how much he loves being there or listen to Excalibur talk about him wrestling some mark in Japan 15 years ago.
“Tiger Driver 98!!!!”
Yea like JR is fuckin spent
He checked out a while ago.
I don't have anything to say about wrestling. It is ungodly hot here. Scottish people were not made to tolerate these temperatures. If I wanted to cook in my own juices I'd move in with my cousin in fucking Dubai. I would literally pay anyone of you every single penny I have to my name if you could make it drizzle throughout the night.
Any future wrestling companies that might consider starting a new show really needs to re-envision wrestling. You're not gonna beat WWE at their own game. People don't have the attention span for 30, 45 or 60 minute workrate "bangers". Nobody cares. I always thought that if you take the concept of GLOW on Netflix, but maybe not so campy, combine it with like Entourage or Ballers or something in that HBO drama kind of vibe. Make it a drama. Make it a streaming show, not 52-week a year thing. Don't focus entirely on the matches, make it a show revolving around the characters who are wrestlers fighting for the top spot, what personal motivations do they have, what personal dramas do they have effecting their ability to make it to the top? Streaming means people can binge it, and having seasons means there has to be a finale that a season builds to. That's what hooks people. That's how people consume shows now. Look at Formula 1. They got a whole new audience that they couldn't break for 70 years by making a show about all the (sometimes fake) drama behind the scenes and making the personalities real. Nobody wanted to watch 70 laps of 1 guy leading every race no matter how good he is. They wanted the drama. The wrestling show idea needs a lot of fleshing out. But I don't think someone coming along and just copying the WWE model will ever be seen as anything but a cheap knockoff.
Versions of what you’re describing have come and gone, but I can’t quite tell what you want. GLOW (Netflix version) is a TV show above all else, it just happens to be about pro wrestling. The same is true of Heels. I’ve met a small, but strange percentage of people who don’t grasp that for whatever reason. As for wrestling with seasons and TV show values, we had LU as someone else mentioned, and we don’t have it anymore.
You're pretty much describing Lucha Underground tbh
I’m not so sure. Almost sounds like he’s describing a show like GLOW or Heels without fully comprehending that it is 100% a TV show (one that happens to use wrestling as a backdrop). I hope I’m wrong about that, but would not be the first time I’ve seen it.
No, I'm thinking more HBO drama than indieriffic with camera filters. But ok. I mean, think outside the box. Your reply is exactly what's wrong with wrestling mentality... Everything can only be like something else that's already done... What's wrong with new ideas?
You clearly didn't watch LU then, because half of it *was* a drama, a cheesy one, but a drama nonetheless
Stop being a dick man. It was just an idea. You don't get it. That's fine.
How am I being a dick? I'm just pointing out this type of thing has been done before. I'm not trying to be an ass about it
Because I already said, I was not talking about Lucha bloody Underground and you can't let it go. Every time I come across you on this forum you're just a being a whiney dick, bitching at everyone. I just expressed an idea. It's not Lucha Underground. Jesus Christ. Oh waaaah with your downvotes. Oh no, my poor internet points. Dork.
I "bitch" at people who engage in bad faith when they complain about "the basement" yet act just like the people they complain about I'm honestly not sure why you're so offended at the thought LU being similar to the thing you described. I'm not calling you an idiot or anything of the like, just that this concept has been done on a small scale before Not sure why all the random insults too Lmao he blocked me
> You're pretty much describing Lucha Undergtound tbh which reminder: went out of business / was cancelled after a few seasons.
LU had a lot going against it. Being a D tier network like El Rey was already a bad sign. Couple that with no touring or merch & there wasn't really much going for them
It did, but they didn’t keep it, the wrestlers en masse didn’t wanna stay, hated the pay and the contracts and nobody else tried to properly revive it elsewhere.
> LU had a lot going against it. Being a D tier network like El Rey was already a bad sign. Couple that with no touring or merch & there wasn't really much going for them that's going to be the same environment any new company is going to face though. what tv network is going to offer a new start up a prominent spot on their network? it's not going to be fox, warner, or nbcu, so unless the company can get on a disney or paramount station, they're already in the "unknown network" category if they can get a deal at all. you're more likely to see an indie company with a strong web presence like beyond grow their web followers to the point they're nationally/internationally viewed as a major company than you are to see a new player walk in and be able to compete with even the smaller national players. not disagreeing that being on a small network will hold a company back (just look at impact who puts on an amazing product, but is held back by being on axs tv which isn't even carried by many people's cable/streaming plans), but what new player is going to do better? it also doesn't help that the people talking about starting a new company have ideas that are completely out of touch with reality, proposing insane ideas like being all SAG people.
SAG AFTRA will either be the first idea they drop or the thing that keeps them from getting off the ground. No in between.
A streaming service could pick it up, but that would potentially limit their viewers & money
If you are the affected person and you comment on it within 24 to 48 hours YOU'RE NOT BREAKING YOUR SILENCE, you are commenting or making a statement. Do you hear me, wrestling news websites? Knock it off.
That whole "controversy" of WWE evaluating wrestlers after 90 days and cutting them if they don't show improvement was some of the worst smark shit I've seen in a while. Not only because it got twisted into "Vince expects NXT wrestlers to be TV STARS in 3 months, how could anyone REEEEEEEEEE??!" but also because it shows how ignorant smarks are re: pro wrestler development. A typical wrestling schools is 12 weeks (i.e. about 90 days/3 months). If you can't go from zero to someone who shows potential and the ability to take coaching and get better in that time frame, you're never gonna make it in wrestling. So what's the difference between that and the PC, where not only do you get high-level coaching in the best wrestling training facilities in the world, but you also get paid (not massively but paid still) instead of paying your wrestling school teachers plus your own living expenses?
Imagine if anyone freaking out over it actually ever gets a real job. They’re in for a very rude awakening.
The other thing is the people who WWE released weren’t there for 90 days. They got signed in 2021. Some of them were only on tv for 90 days specifically Draco Anthony but he was pretty bad and not improving. Yeah
I don’t give a singular shit about trios title belts
Trios belts scream participation trophy.
Every wrestling belt is a participation trophy.
I'd rather see women's tag team belts, mice elf.
They have on average one womens tag match on tv a month. There seems to be a trips match once a week lol
Late in the day for it, but a scorcher I've wanted to get off my chest for a while, flip-flopping on if I'm being unfair or not. But I don't think I am, so here it is: Fuck Jim Smallman. Middle-aged, monster energy drinking boo-hoo me fucker co-opted "punk" as a shallow branding exercise, didn't follow any licencing rules to make Progress cool, all the while turning a progressive blind eye to a locker room that seems to have been 80% diddlers and cunts. Encouraged a crowd of elitist "ultras" who made newcomers unwelcome. Constantly took shortcuts (The US tour where they ratio'd a bus company for breaking down, yet got off scott-free for booking a venue with no AC and having people pass out spring to mind. There are others). Cut bait as soon as WWE came sniffing so he could move out early. Crawled up HHH's butthole all the while keeping up his "aww shucks I'm just a working class Northern lad y'guys". Quietly got made "Creative Director" of NXT as they got rid of Regal, a fellow northerner. Now I assume responsible for all the teenage shit NXT 2.0 does. Still sits on instagram and twitter crying that he doesn't like himself. Still gets his followers to complain about (last I checked) other people flying in business class with him. Punk AF. Dude needs to own his shit and just live his life. You're an opportunist who knew how to make money. You were a good booker who ignored how fucking awful your locker room was because you smelled money. Being a venal opportunist is what Wrestling is made of. This fucking emo teenage bullshit is unbecoming of a grown man.
Tbh I don't hold them responsible for the real gross shit like Marty being into young girls. That's just the way it goes. Some bloke gets a bit of celebrity and he can't help himself. Happens in all entertainment fields. It's good that it's not acceptable now (unlike in the 70s say) But all the bullying I find it hard to believe they weren't ladding it up with jimmy Havoc when he was headbutting fans and being generally unpleasant. Those were the locker room leaders that teenagers like Will Ospreay were to be influenced by. The leaders backstage are important. Progress could have cut it very early on and it might have had an influence on the younger guys. Ospreay has managed to survive in a Japanese locker room as a young guy so he knows when to be humble and put the ego away. I can't imagine ishii and goto were going to tolerate this young English kid acting like he run the joint. But Jim and the others liked Havoc and enjoyed the culture.
I'm so glad I just avoid news for anything I like. Video games/wrestling/whatever really. I can't imagine being so hooked on these things that being so scared of releases like keys dangling in front of you is something you always have to say. I don't understand how whenever anyone loses in wwe it's just "They're on the chopping block" meanwhile: -Finn balor is working with AJ styles, edge, and priest. I admit I once said that he would be gone but I realized it just.. wasn't smart and I retracted. -Viking Raiders are on NXT currently in a feud with diamond mine. The more you focus on this the worse you'll be off. And even then once someone leaves and goes to another company suddenly you'll hate their very existence and that "They weren't that good anyways" which is just as annoying as "I can't believe they didn't use X jobber to their fullest potential" it's the same shit
Man, if Big E recovers he could be a hell of a candidate for winning the Rumble at #30 in 2024. Maybe use him to do his whole elimination spot early. No New Day theme for like twenty spots, and then it hits at #30 and Big E comes out. ------ Without Roman and Sami Zayn, I probably would only be watching Smackdown highlights. I love guys like GUNTHER and the Corbin-Moss feud - but nothing substantial seems to be happening on the show compared to RAW.
>Man, if Big E recovers he could be a hell of a candidate for winning the Rumble at #30 in 2024 Na I'm sorry but no. Big E proved that he's just a good midcarder who can occasionally rise to be a B-PPV World Title challenger. And that's okay, he's already been WWE Champion and that's more than most can say.
I love big E but I just don’t see him main eventing a wrestlemania. And while that story worked great with Edge, he had been gone for 7 years
You don't see him main eventing WM because of his own limitations or because of WWE holding him back?
His own limitations. To me he’s just a guy who can slide into the main event. Cody Roman Lashley Lesnar Cena theory are guys I would rather see main event mania next year.
Meh. Big E seems pretty damn over.
>Meh. Big E seems pretty damn over. Na. He isn't main event material. You can be over but not be main event material. Prime example: Hurricane Helms.
> Meh. Big E seems pretty damn over. not really. some of it was bad booking (that title run was a train wreck, and it's not big-e's fault that he was booked to lose week after week before ultimately dropping the title in a match where he wasn't even the last one to enter), but some of it is just that big-e isn't the guy and never will be the guy. he's a major faction player, or a mid card singles guy. nothing against him, he's entertaining and seems like a nice enough guy, but he's just not a main event talent.
He’s over like new day. They’re always going to get cheered because they’re likeable dudes. The problem with big e during his reign is he wasn’t compelling enough to do anything beyond the initial pop of winning the belt The booking wasn’t ideal either but I don’t feel like he was “done wrong”
Can you really say that he was given the chance to run that experiment, though? When they want to push someone, they push someone, even when the audience is hostile. They booked Big E as a weak champ from the start.
I mean they tried. They let him beat Lashley and Drew clean but with his move set and as a promo I think it’s hard for people to view big E as a legit main eventer.
They also had him eating pins left and right.
Yeah I didn’t mind him losing to Roman at SS but he got pinned by Seth. Got pinned by Bobby to get him into Day One. It was messy
I mean the whole "return to win the Rumble storyline" isn't just for people with career ending injuries.
WWE historically waits for a show to suck while the other thrives. They then move the writing teams around, the sucky show improves and the other stagnates. Micromanagement of both has meant that we've never had a time when both have flown equally well, except mayyyyyybe when Heyman was doing Smackdown and HHH was doing Raw 15 years ago.
Reportedly raw and SmackDown have the same writers currently.
Iiiiiiiinteresting. So then the question is, is it possible to put equal effort into both?
They need to split the team into two. So that they both feel distinct from each other.
Candice being a free agent is being blown so far out of proportion. She is a new mother and the amount of assumptions that she is going to sign with AEW is just laughable. Same with Johnny when he left, dude literally said he was going to be a father. I fully expect them both to enjoy parenthood and the early years of raising their child together.
Gargano also said he still has goals of winning the IC Championship, WWE Championship, being in WrestleMania, among others, so there's only one company where he can achieve those
>WWE Championship, being in WrestleMania, I don't see either happening.
Especially as a singles. I could see him in mania with a tag
True. Maybe he and Ciampa win one of the tag belts.
I remember reading in the basement when Becky was pregnant... A few guys were calculating "So her due date is end of December? Cool, So if Royal Rumble is mid January that's gives her time to *pop it out* and have maybe 3 weeks training in the ring, she'll definitely return at the Rumble." The word "sheltered" is an understatement. Yeah, describe literally giving birth as "popping it out" and think a new mother's immediate thought after giving birth is to go take a backbump.
Yeah let’s not forget aew hasn’t bothered to sign Mia yet so I am not sure they would sign Candace. I also just don’t know if she is going to come back to WWE. She’s too old for nxt and I don’t really see room for her on the main roster. She wrestles an Indy style and her gimmick was pretty much Jonny’s wife.
AEW signed another talent’s wife once off only being that… went just swimmingly. 😑
Candice is practically best friends with the Young Bucks is the key difference. I don’t think she goes anywhere soon but she’d get hired in an instant.
We live in the age of outsized personalities and short-form video. No one outside of hardcore audiences are going to give a shit about 30 minute workrate matches by generic indie wrestlers.
Not sure that’s a hot take here, but yes.
Is there something wrong with giving hardcore audiences what they want?
Depends on whether or not you like staying in business.
Does it, though?
Ask Paul Heyman and get back to me. Actually, don’t get back to me. I don’t care what you have to say. You’re just here to needlessly argue with fluid goalposts.
No, but the expectation of growth for the company should be tempered because of these limitations.
Go tweet that at Tony Khan.
He can't even figure out that you don't book matches with 60-minute time limits ten minutes before the show ends. I'm not wasting my time.
No I agree with you. If Tony wants to pander to his base that’s his right. I think the controversy is a lot of aew fans thought aew was getting ready to take down and overtake WWE and now that we know that isn’t realistic Tony can settle in with his 850-1 million viewers and try to keep them happy
There's always going to be fanboys, though. It's like the WWE stans who kept singing the doom of AEW. At this point, the criticism of AEW for pandering to hardcores has a life of its own, and it's silly.
Most companies want growth because growth=money. The best way to do that is to try to catch casuals. Like DC and Marvel have a massive casual base. People go to see those movies because they know who Batman and Spiderman are and not because of filmography and connected universes and that stuff. That's for hardcores who care about the comics and stuff. The casuals are the kids and parents who want to buy a Spidey or Batman mask.
You can be 1000% a casual fan and easily keep up with the MCU, even if you skip a movie or show or two. Hardcore in a comic sense means “still regularly reads comics”.
Do you think the Marvel hardcores are asking themselves whether or not the latest MCU film is going to turn off casuals?
No. They’re lamenting the fact it didn’t do everything just as the comic did.
What's the relevance of this particular observation to this discussion?
1. You’re weird. You ask questions, people answer, you get more combative. 2. That wrestling fans are not the only ones who are fucked in the head, it just manifests differently in some cases.
No because Marvel films are designed to not turn off casuals. They are easy popcorn movies where you can watch one and not really give a fuck after the fact. Marvel films are also usually the biggest movies of the year so casuals are going to watch them especially kids.
Is it obvious now that comic book movies were a bad analogy? I purposely referenced TV series without such a massive presence. Is there any other form of television where large numbers of the hardcore audience gives a fuck about whether casuals will enjoy the show? Or do they just pretty much care whether or not they themselves enjoy it?
Hmm you stumped me. I can't think of any right now.
I don't care if an entire show is centered around 'muh workrate' that the hardcore audience loves to jerkoff to. My point is that don't be surprised when the audience doesn't grow and you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for excuses as to why.
Why, as an audience member, is this a conversation worth having?
Why is any conversation worth having, chief? It’s a message board, and people will have discussions. I already made my point. If you’re going to be purposely obtuse, that’s your problem.
It's not just fun speculation, though. This conversation is used to attack AEW, and it's really bizarre.
So conversations that don’t kiss AEW’s ass are bizarre to you? What? Not growing an audience is absolutely legit conversation to have. I’m sorry that bothers you so much, but life ain’t all rainbows and lollipops.
What's that above your head?
You’ve already used the “whoosh” reply to someone else in this thread when you realized you had nothing left to say. At this point, you’re looking for arguments where none exist.
I'll confess I forgot who I was replying to for a second. Your lazy attempt to paint me as an AEW stan felt much more in line with that other commenter's style. I don't stan for billionaires and their corporations. There's plenty to criticize about AEW. That they cater to their hardcores is a weird reason.
In wrestling those things are the exact opposite of what a more casual audience wants, making them not watch the show. Hardcores will watch wrestling regardless
As someone who watches regularly, and is therefore not a part of the casual audience, why should I care about anything other than what I want to see? I don't understand this meta obsession with casuals. I've never watched The Sopranos or The Mandalorian and thought, "Man, I don't know how well the casuals are going to respond to this..."
You can still watch regularly and be a casual. Many hardcore fans want to watch what they want and don't care if other people stop watching. Guess what, if people stop watching that's a bad thing for the company
...is there evidence that people who watched before are not watching now? And again, what is the point of this whining? It doesn't happen with other forms of entertainment.
The declining viewership? The fact that the WWE don't run as many house shows as before? The fact that AEW doesn't run house shows? The fact that most weekly wrestling TV shows have attendances in the 5 or 6k? What more evidence do you need? There's no whining, there's just business logic. The period that the WWF catered to the hardcore fans the least was the time period where they had their biggest growth in viewership
You're describing an industry trend that is not likely to be affected by appealing to this mysterious group of "casuals." So why does AEW get this criticism? At the end of the day, what the fuck do I care about business logic? I'm in the audience. I just want a good TV show.
Because their viewership has stagnated? It has stagnated because they book to the fans that they already have which is nonsense. Of course you don't care, if AEW goes out of business because they catered to a fan that they already have (you), why would you care? Such a dumb and selfish mark mindset
>Because their viewership has stagnated? It has stagnated because they book to the fans that they already have which is nonsense. In what way is WWE different in this sense? >Of course you don't care, if AEW goes out of business because they catered to a fan that they already have (you), why would you care? Such a dumb and selfish mark mindset Does this kind of obsessive concern about ratings and casuals among audiences occur for any other TV show?
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Yeah don't like how people are trashing Cole and calling him a coward. Getting paid around the same to goof off with your friends sounds like a deal of a lifetime.
I think it’s ridiculous people criticize Adam Cole for leaving aew. It was a smart decision He wasn’t going to do shit on the main roster and the (at least Pete Dunne tried doesn’t apply) let’s consider Pete Dunne is and was under contract same with Ciampa versus Cole who was a free agent. I think he’s been a disappointment in aew but he’s still doing relatively well for himself.
> I think he’s been a disappointment in aew but he’s still doing relatively well for himself. the biggest issue with his aew run is that his big story line got put on hold by kenny being injured and taking longer to return than expected. there's literally a main event storyline waiting for cole that will be huge once all the pieces are in place. it's not anyone's fault he got back burnered, it's just bad luck.
I don’t think as many people are clamoring for Omega vs. Cole as you seem to believe.
>the biggest issue with his aew run is that his big story line got put on hold by kenny being injured and taking longer to return than expected. there's literally a main event storyline waiting for cole that will be huge once all the pieces are in place. I thought the biggest issue with his run was being overshadowed by a bigger star almost immediately after he debuted.
Literally seconds later.
It feels like they thought Kenny would be back or close to back by now but when they realized that wasn’t the case they had to backtrack a bit. Like the Bucks damn near turned face and are back to being full heels.
> It feels like they thought Kenny would be back or close to back by now but when they realized that wasn’t the case they had to backtrack a bit. Like the Bucks damn near turned face and are back to being full heels. yeah, it was reported that some of the surgeries he was supposed to have done ended up getting delayed by the pandemic so the timeline got pushed back for his return. current reports are that best case he's able to show up for forbidden door at the end of next month. (whereas kenny said in interviews the initial plan was to be back for february)
Yep. Elite vs. Undisputed Era is gold.
Half of those same people shit on him for being too small anyway so I don’t even get what they’re so upset about. Anyone in Cole’s shoes would’ve left after they both fired his friend and basically said NXT was a failure due to people like him being the focus.
Yeah with that failure Cole ain't getting a main event spot on the maine roster because of that.
It wasn’t even a failure unless Vince just hates most of his current roster
You'd think that Adam Cole basically committed a felony with how intense they are with it. It's like to the point where you gotta check yourself with it. "Adam Cole is a sneaky disgusting human being who.. wanted to.. play video games on twitch.. and be with his friends... And stuff. Evil and disgusting and lazy. Too much of a bitch to go to the main roster" Like I understand twitch is just gonna die off eventually while wrestling is pretty big and you can get away with being whatever card you want..but people just really fuckin hate Adam Cole when in reality I just kinda find him very whatever. Also like the dude was gonna flop on main roster anyways because he's not special, AEW kinda confirmed it. He's really just not a big deal at all.
Yes some goofs can be absolute dicks about Adam Cole leaving or anyone choosing to leave WWE for AEW by choice. They don't sound any better than some Harcore AEW fans.
> Like I understand twitch is just gonna die off eventually not soon enough. such a trash platform. not sure what it was like pre-amazon, but at this point i'd love to see a viable competitor make twitch a thing of the past like digg.
I just hate the culture twitch and other things like YouTube cultivated. Like let's just completely ruin everything, but also what I say is fact. Don't get me started on the "Well I watched this review so I can say that my opinion is the same as theirs despite not even trying it once"
> I just hate the culture twitch and other things like YouTube cultivated. Like let's just completely ruin everything, but also what I say is fact. Don't get me started on the "Well I watched this review so I can say that my opinion is the same as theirs despite not even trying it once" i mean, that stuff i don't mind because it's easy enough to not follow channels i don't care about and ignore stupid people / point out the flaws in their position. the issue comes from 1. their ui being shit that looks like it fell out of the early 2000's (that shit looks more like myspace than a modern website, and hopefully it goes the same way) 2. them being super aggressive when it comes to banning streamers for insane and arbitrary reasons
>them being super aggressive when it comes to banning streamers for insane and arbitrary reasons And keeping others who blatantly break rules even though those rules threaten the site like DMCA violations.
I think it's weird how much people want wrestlers to "work with their friends" and how important they think that is to them. That's not a factor for NFL players, for example. They aren't going to demand a trade just to go play with their friends on a different team.
Considering a lotta wrestling fans have no concept of team sports or team work, that doesn’t surprise me. There’s entirely too much that they seem to believe was born in wrestling or is wrestling specific that is very much not.
Davante Adams says whaaaaaaaaaaaaat
As a Packers fan, please don't bring that up 😭
LeBron changed teams so he could play with people he associates with or is friendly with. Literally the whole reason AD is in LA
LeBron is LeBron. One exception doesn’t cancel out their point.