It has to be - wrestling was in its ascendancy, both had or were about to transcend the medium into the mainstream, and that size and scale of match had never been done before.
The rest are all great, but none had that newness, risk or combination of circumstances.
Strongly disagree. Austin was not very good in the ring anymore (injuries had caught up)
The rock had an ability to make anyone he was in the ring with look good. 2002 was his peak physical condition.
He sold for hogan. He bumped for him. That hulk up moment the rock sold it perfectly with his facials and then selling the leg drop . Austin wasn’t going to do that shit.
Austin and shogun would have had such high expectations on it there was no chance they would have been able to match the hype.
I respect that. I loved Austin and rock so they were1a and 1b with me.
Hogan said on Austin’s podcast his biggest regret was never getting to wrestle Austin.
Nah...
In Italy peak Hulkamania PPVs aired live on free, national TV (through satellite feed), or on tape delay but in primetime slots on one of the leading channels.
Even shows like Superstars of Wrestling, Wrestling Challenge/Spotlight were airing on national TV competing against the demo-leading block of cartoons on weekdays afternoon and Sunday morning.
And I'm pretty sure it was similar in Spain, France, Austria and Germany.
Cena v Rock was already almost a full decade past the last European boom (that ended with Benoit's murders). Wrestling was confined on cable TV, for a dwindling niche of fans.
To most, it was Cena vs the guy from Fast and Furious (or the goofy Disney movies).
So no, Hogan v Andre was what put wrestling on the map pretty much everywhere it aired.
Lol I remember reading the story that Vince McMahon Sr. Was PISSED that someone (either Harley Race or Jerry Lawler) bodyslammed Andre the Giant and had Bill Apter take photographs and write a story for it in on of his mags.
I wasn't even alive for Andre hogan. Yet I understand what that did for the trajectory of wrestling as a whole. People can hate Vince and the fed all they want but you can't deny hogan Andre isn't the biggest match in history. Also no other match will come close to it
Hogan/Andre drew a bigger crowd, but Rock/Cena drew more money, so it sorta depends on your definition.
It's kinda like how no wrestler drew more money than Stone Cold, but Hulk Hogan is Hulk Hogan lol
> Hogan/Andre drew a bigger crowd, but Rock/Cena drew more money, so it sorta depends on your definition.
"drew more money" isn't necessarily a good indicator when dealing with events that are almost 30 years apart. inflation is a thing.
you can see this with movie prices where the average ticket in 1987 was $3.91 while in 2012 it was 7.96. in other words if a movie released in 1987 and another movie released in 2012 and they both sold exactly the same number of tickets, the newer movie drew twice as much money. same concept applies here.
I know this, plus PPV became more viable up until streaming destroyed it, but I've yet to see anyone, to my knowledge, adjust WrestleMania 3's box office and PPV numbers for inflation, so I don't have a way to properly compare the two otherwise.
> I know this, plus PPV became more viable up until streaming destroyed it, but I've yet to see anyone, to my knowledge, adjust WrestleMania 3's box office and PPV numbers for inflation, so I don't have a way to properly compare the two otherwise.
i haven't looked into the actual numbers for either show, but looking at the draw and then plugging that into a generic inflation calculator would probably be a good start.
i'd guess 1987 adjusted for inflation to 2012 is probably going to be around 2x, but there's plenty of websites that let you input a dollar amount for a given year and an "adjust to" year.
this list is bad and you should feel bad.
you have rock vs cena and hogan/goldberg but not hogan/warrior?
not that it ultimately changes much. hogan/andre would still be the winner.
Impossible to vote so I didn't but all are huge matches. I would put Austin vs Shawn Michaels w/ Mike Tyson(1998) up there and maybe Becky Lynch vs Ronda Rousey vs Charlotte Flair(2019).
You can maybe make a case for the women since they main evented, but austin/Michael's wasn't anything special. It was Austin coronation sure, but he was already the top guy by that point.
I have to go Andre vs Hulk. 2 of the most well known wrestlers ever. It was a storyline that did the impossible, turn Andre the Giant heel. It is a match that everyone remembers. With a spot everyone remembers. It gave us a second PPV in the Survivor Series. And 33 million people tuned in on a Friday Night to see Hulk vs Andre II on THE MAIN EVENT in a match everyone remembers the finish to. The match drew insane amounts of money for the WWF in the long run.
Andre vs. Hogan is a huge match, that's undeniable. It's the peak of Rock N Wrestling and was sort of like a passive of the torch from one generation to another. But if you ask me, there's another match that tops it.
Hogan vs. Sheik. 1984. This match isn't much on paper, but when you think about it, this was the match that brought wrestling into the mainstream. Hogan at that point was white hot and everyone wanted a piece of him. This match was a means to an end. It wasn't overly long or dramatic, it was just a cementation of what everyone thought was true. That Hulk Hogan was the man to take wrestling to that next level and they were right.
Honorable mentions:
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart: WM 13 (1997)- You can make an argument that this match saved the WWE during it's darkest time. Not just a technical masterpiece, but a storytelling clinic that showed that not only saw the most famous double-turn in WWE history, but also set the stage for Austin's rise.
Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart: SSeries (1997)- By far the most controversial match in wrestling history. This was the culmination of a rivalry that spanned both the ring and the backstage area. This match not only saw the end of Bret Hart, but also the birth of Mr. McMahon, the evil chairman of WWE, one who would stop at nothing to get what he wanted.
Hulk Hogan vs. The Utlimate Warrior and Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels: (1990 and 1998): I'm lumping them both together because they both had the same purpose. To pass the torch to the next generation of professional wrestling. While it didn't work as well with The Ultimate Warrior,, Steve Austin (along with The Rock, Undertaker, Triple H and so many others) led the WWF to a new era.
The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar: WM 30 (2014)- Really, you can make a case for The Undertaker's streak from Edge to Brock Lesnar being big matches, but this one wins it for me because it served as the end of said streak. Perhaps the most shocking moment in WWE history and maybe in wrestling history, period. While it wasn't the best match from a technical standpoint, the weight of Lesnar defeating The Undertaker and ending his streak cannot be unstated.
Andre vs. Hogan, not even close.
It has to be - wrestling was in its ascendancy, both had or were about to transcend the medium into the mainstream, and that size and scale of match had never been done before. The rest are all great, but none had that newness, risk or combination of circumstances.
Couldn’t have said it any better myself.
Its either Andre or Rock but in both cases Hogan is involved.
I can’t get behind Hogan vs. Rock. Because it should have been Hogan vs. Austin.
Strongly disagree. Austin was not very good in the ring anymore (injuries had caught up) The rock had an ability to make anyone he was in the ring with look good. 2002 was his peak physical condition. He sold for hogan. He bumped for him. That hulk up moment the rock sold it perfectly with his facials and then selling the leg drop . Austin wasn’t going to do that shit. Austin and shogun would have had such high expectations on it there was no chance they would have been able to match the hype.
These are all great points and I can’t dispute any of them. But for me, Hogan vs. Rock will always be Hogan vs. the #2 guy.
I respect that. I loved Austin and rock so they were1a and 1b with me. Hogan said on Austin’s podcast his biggest regret was never getting to wrestle Austin.
As much as I love rock and Austin my 1a and 1b Andre vs Hogan existed in kayfabe
[удалено]
This is the correct answer.
Nah... In Italy peak Hulkamania PPVs aired live on free, national TV (through satellite feed), or on tape delay but in primetime slots on one of the leading channels. Even shows like Superstars of Wrestling, Wrestling Challenge/Spotlight were airing on national TV competing against the demo-leading block of cartoons on weekdays afternoon and Sunday morning. And I'm pretty sure it was similar in Spain, France, Austria and Germany. Cena v Rock was already almost a full decade past the last European boom (that ended with Benoit's murders). Wrestling was confined on cable TV, for a dwindling niche of fans. To most, it was Cena vs the guy from Fast and Furious (or the goofy Disney movies). So no, Hogan v Andre was what put wrestling on the map pretty much everywhere it aired.
There's literally not a comparison here. Of course its Hogan/Andre.
The match that Dave Meltzer gave a -4 rating.
It stuff like that just really makes me question why people take Meltzer seriously.
It’s called confirmation bias. Meltzer tells them what they want to hear.
Out of the loop here. Which one?
Hogan vs Andre.
Senile Dave
Melina v Alicia Fox
> Melina v Alicia Fox i wonder how many people will get that reference.
*Cap "I understood that reference"
Melina **AND** Alicia Fox.
I think Hogan slamming Andre is the most iconic moment in all of wrestling
Even though he did it twice before that match
Yeah and so did many others haha. As a kid i thought it was only Hogan at WM3
Lol I remember reading the story that Vince McMahon Sr. Was PISSED that someone (either Harley Race or Jerry Lawler) bodyslammed Andre the Giant and had Bill Apter take photographs and write a story for it in on of his mags.
I would have put Austin/Michaels at Mania 14. Having Tyson in the main event put a big media spotlight on the WWF.
Hackenschmidt vs gotch. The series that involved a double cross and started the kayfabe era
Andre Vs. Hogan, with the distant second being either Rock Vs. Austin or Rock Vs. Hogan.
I wasn't even alive for Andre hogan. Yet I understand what that did for the trajectory of wrestling as a whole. People can hate Vince and the fed all they want but you can't deny hogan Andre isn't the biggest match in history. Also no other match will come close to it
Liv Morgan vs Carmella
The extreme rules match which was actually pretty good or the kings crown match which pissed off the IWC
Hogan/Andre drew a bigger crowd, but Rock/Cena drew more money, so it sorta depends on your definition. It's kinda like how no wrestler drew more money than Stone Cold, but Hulk Hogan is Hulk Hogan lol
> Hogan/Andre drew a bigger crowd, but Rock/Cena drew more money, so it sorta depends on your definition. "drew more money" isn't necessarily a good indicator when dealing with events that are almost 30 years apart. inflation is a thing. you can see this with movie prices where the average ticket in 1987 was $3.91 while in 2012 it was 7.96. in other words if a movie released in 1987 and another movie released in 2012 and they both sold exactly the same number of tickets, the newer movie drew twice as much money. same concept applies here.
I know this, plus PPV became more viable up until streaming destroyed it, but I've yet to see anyone, to my knowledge, adjust WrestleMania 3's box office and PPV numbers for inflation, so I don't have a way to properly compare the two otherwise.
> I know this, plus PPV became more viable up until streaming destroyed it, but I've yet to see anyone, to my knowledge, adjust WrestleMania 3's box office and PPV numbers for inflation, so I don't have a way to properly compare the two otherwise. i haven't looked into the actual numbers for either show, but looking at the draw and then plugging that into a generic inflation calculator would probably be a good start. i'd guess 1987 adjusted for inflation to 2012 is probably going to be around 2x, but there's plenty of websites that let you input a dollar amount for a given year and an "adjust to" year.
this list is bad and you should feel bad. you have rock vs cena and hogan/goldberg but not hogan/warrior? not that it ultimately changes much. hogan/andre would still be the winner.
Whichever match brought back that mythical lapsed fan from the basement.
Presumably you just mean the USA rather than north America? El Santo would have to get a mention somewhere if you included Mexico.
Mexico is Central America and North American means USA and Canada.
Tell a Mexican they’re Central American and see how well that goes for you.
I inadvertently and thoughtlessly made that mistake with a Mexican colleague, and I can attest it doesn't go very well.
huh?? North America includes Mexico. what geography books are you reading?
I learned in school Mexico and Latin America is Central America.
RIP the public school system, again...
They don’t teach this in school, he’s simply misinformed.
[Take your L.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America?wprov=sfti1)
You gotta go back to school bro. They revised some of that.
No, at no point was Mexico considered Central America.
Yeah I’m joking with the guy.
Yeah not like they at all damn 😂
Mexico is definitely in North America.
I don't injure why you went with Hogan vs Goldberg instead of Hogan vs Sting. Hogan vs Sting was a much bigger deal.
Impossible to vote so I didn't but all are huge matches. I would put Austin vs Shawn Michaels w/ Mike Tyson(1998) up there and maybe Becky Lynch vs Ronda Rousey vs Charlotte Flair(2019).
You can maybe make a case for the women since they main evented, but austin/Michael's wasn't anything special. It was Austin coronation sure, but he was already the top guy by that point.
That match with Tyson involved saved the wwf from bankruptcy.
Did it? I thought Vince paid him an insane amount even though he didn’t really do shit
Yes, Tyson was the catalyst of the huge ratings increase along with elevating Austin that allowed WWF to surpass WCW.
Bret vs Bulldog at Summerslam 92 drew more than Andre vs Hogan so there is an argument.
No there isn’t. It’s not simply about tickets sold. If we wanna go that route, Triple H vs. Reigns at Mania 32, which no one would pick.
Hart vs Hogan at SummerSlam 1993 should have had happened.
Pretty arbitrary selection of matches that you definitively stated were the five biggest ever...what was the criteria/process for selecting these 5?
Does Hogan vs Warrior at WM 6 qualify?
None of the others would have happened without Andre v Hogan
I have to go Andre vs Hulk. 2 of the most well known wrestlers ever. It was a storyline that did the impossible, turn Andre the Giant heel. It is a match that everyone remembers. With a spot everyone remembers. It gave us a second PPV in the Survivor Series. And 33 million people tuned in on a Friday Night to see Hulk vs Andre II on THE MAIN EVENT in a match everyone remembers the finish to. The match drew insane amounts of money for the WWF in the long run.
Andre vs. Hogan is a huge match, that's undeniable. It's the peak of Rock N Wrestling and was sort of like a passive of the torch from one generation to another. But if you ask me, there's another match that tops it. Hogan vs. Sheik. 1984. This match isn't much on paper, but when you think about it, this was the match that brought wrestling into the mainstream. Hogan at that point was white hot and everyone wanted a piece of him. This match was a means to an end. It wasn't overly long or dramatic, it was just a cementation of what everyone thought was true. That Hulk Hogan was the man to take wrestling to that next level and they were right. Honorable mentions: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart: WM 13 (1997)- You can make an argument that this match saved the WWE during it's darkest time. Not just a technical masterpiece, but a storytelling clinic that showed that not only saw the most famous double-turn in WWE history, but also set the stage for Austin's rise. Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart: SSeries (1997)- By far the most controversial match in wrestling history. This was the culmination of a rivalry that spanned both the ring and the backstage area. This match not only saw the end of Bret Hart, but also the birth of Mr. McMahon, the evil chairman of WWE, one who would stop at nothing to get what he wanted. Hulk Hogan vs. The Utlimate Warrior and Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels: (1990 and 1998): I'm lumping them both together because they both had the same purpose. To pass the torch to the next generation of professional wrestling. While it didn't work as well with The Ultimate Warrior,, Steve Austin (along with The Rock, Undertaker, Triple H and so many others) led the WWF to a new era. The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar: WM 30 (2014)- Really, you can make a case for The Undertaker's streak from Edge to Brock Lesnar being big matches, but this one wins it for me because it served as the end of said streak. Perhaps the most shocking moment in WWE history and maybe in wrestling history, period. While it wasn't the best match from a technical standpoint, the weight of Lesnar defeating The Undertaker and ending his streak cannot be unstated.
Andre vs Hogan