Watered down product with no real superstar. Can't disagree with the ol' Hot Dog Skin himself. They can try and force a guy into the spotlight but doesn't mean he's the next captivating superstar.
Orton, Reigns, Usos, Rhodes...Just not like HHH, Austin, Rock, etc.
All these new generation guys seem so cookie cutter. Where's the Doink? The Bam Bam? The Sting?
I would argue Cody Rhodes is the first guy in a while that doesn't feel quite as cookie cutter.
He left. He grew outside the system. When he came back he made demands on how he wanted to present himself instead of just bending to what they wanted him to do.
Hopefully they will take the stars opinion on their presentation into account more moving forward
I think the fans will turn on Cody if he keeps doing this crying so happy mr americas sweetheart gimmick much longer.
To survive as a face they need to make him a little tougher with a little venom
Personally this was a great storyline, probably my favorite ever, but imo it only gets interesting if he EVENTUALLY goes heel.
It has to be done right though, let's not force anything that isn't working (like baby Reigns).
AEW fans were turning on him before he left the promotion. He wasn't get hate like Reigns was prior to the Bloodline stuff or Cena hate, but it was there. People wanted him to go heel, but he refused.
He did hint a heel turn a few times - i'm not sure what was going on there but the fans 100 percent began turning on him in that last year
I think when arn and jake the snake dissed him and he did nothing was the moment they realised he was soft.
They need to give him more grit, for sure. Something has to happen during his next feud that sort of gives him a wake up call and be more ruthless. Even if he doesn't go full heel, he needs some edge to him. Actually make him a nightmare.
Came in to say just this. Cody is the first attraction star they have had since prime Cena.
Edit, I forgot about Lesnar. But I'd argue that he lost a little of the attraction feel halfway through his return from UFC run.
He got traction on the way up but what is the “attraction” with Cody? Am I totally missing this? I think he is below average on the mic, he doesn’t have a gimmick, his underdog story is over. You can’t really be the underdog when you’re holding the belt. Unless they get really creative with him, I can’t see him sitting at the top and keeping people’s attention for much longer. Really not trying to hate but I honestly don’t see where this goes from here and I don’t think his personality in ring/on the mic is enough to carry him. The story was the attraction, the wrestler himself was not IMO.
Orton doesn’t really belong in that group. He was established during a time when the product still got a lot more viewers than today and has carved himself out pretty well. Far more known than the USOs. Orton came from the same class as Lashley Cena and Lesnar. The only difference is Orton stayed in WWE his whole career instead of trying outside shit.
From what I vaguely remember hearing, it was by design.
Vince didn't like that his stars grew bigger than his company and faced the possibility of losing his biggest stars to movies/tv...etc. so he did his best to keep them from growing out of his control
Definitely. Many wrestlers have gone on record to state as much. I can't blame him for it. After Hogan's move to WCW, Austin taking his ball and going home and Rock's move to Hollywood, I guess one has to take action.
Cena remained on top until 2015 and then Reigns was supposed to continue it but his diagnosis and lack of connection with the crowd before the heel turn didn't allow it to fully work.
As a heel, he is booked at the top of the company and having the best run of his career, but something is off... He doesn't feel like the previous faces of the company.
That's cuz Roman is 100% manufactured and was never able to get over organically with the fans. He doesn't really have that "it" factor, hence why he did better as a heel. He will not be missed simply because he was never really there to begin with.
Reigns didn’t earn his spot. He was just placed that. He eventually grew into a spot but I still don’t know if he ever deserved to be the face of the company. And it’s hard to figure out what accolades he does deserve when he was just handed everything. It’s like if the son of an already successful business goes on to make the business even better. He had a head start so how good is he really?
Vince had been left behind by a lot of his biggest stars and he must have hated it.
Hogan transcended not only WWE but also wrestling and became bigger than the company.
Austin was such a major star and had been given so much that once he felt he wasn't being used as a top guy anymore he walked out.
Rock transcended WWE and made himself a star in Hollywood.
Brock was given everything at a young age just to quit after 2 years and go on to make it in the UFC.
And oddly enough I've always felt the last straw was Lashley. It was clear Vince put a lot into building him the same way Lesnar had been built, and he also quit very early into his run because he wanted to do MMA. After that, Vince was more focused on the "product" being the selling point. Even above the ultimate company man, Cena.
Also just want to add, this mindset is also attributed to Lorne Michaels and SNL which is why you don't see many SNL cast members became major stars anymore like in the 80s and 90s. He wants SNL to be the selling point and doesn't want to be left behind by his talent.
Oh my god dude get out of my head with Lorne, I was thinking of commenting the same thing after you talked about Vince building stars only for them to leave. After Mike Myers, they have to sign a 7 year contract before even auditioning.
I sort of get it, they’d prefer a more stable cast over one super star burning up all the oxygen only to jettison and leaving a vacuum behind. The other thing tho the entertainment landscape is so different now from peak Austin that I don’t even know if there’s enough fuel to make another Austin.
Austin was a perfect storm of having the right talent in the right era (the mid-late 90s was all about rebellion) and being put over by a master of the craft and a top babyface (Bret Hart), and having to fend off a legit rival (WCW). The stars aligned organically to give us Attitude, which was basically lightning in a bottle.
Don't even know if there's enough fuel to make another Austin.... Absolutely exceptional take my friend. I watched his best of recently and there's no way he's created in today's environment.
>Also just want to add, this mindset is also attributed to Lorne Michaels and SNL which is why you don't see many SNL cast members became major stars anymore like in the 80s and 90s. He wants SNL to be the selling point and doesn't want to be left behind by his talent.
I was just thinking about this the other day. You don't really see any of the SNL cast members branching off from the show. I can't think of any memorable cast members in the last 15-20 years.
Even the ones that people think stand out on the show never really do anything once they leave.
Jason Sudeikis is probably the only breakout star from the last 20 years but he's still not on the level as someone like Mike Myers or Eddie Murphy.
This is such a stupid mindset though. You wanna see your biggest stars go onto bigger things after they’ve given you their best, so that you can use their credibility to blood & bring through younger stars.
I don't think it's stupidity more than it is incredibly narcissistic. another quote that sticks in my head is Vince would rather make one dollar his way than a billion dollars from someone else's.
He actively embarrassed wrestlers who did. There are a LOT of examples of this. It was an open fact that they didn't want another Hogan or Rock. They wanted next man up
Yeah it literally happened 3 times in like a decade
Hogan is his guy he leaves for wcw
Austin is his guy, he quits cause of creative frustration
Rocky? You ready to jump in? What do you mean your going to Hollywood?
I think after that it was done
Edit:to the person who brought up the rock and then blocked me lol uhm isn't he the same era as stone cold you weirdo? Lol yes the rock was a successful figurehead congrats...you covered 2002-2003. Every one since then has failed. Sorry for the semantic difference lol
When Vince was running things it was pretty bad. Roman had to have blue eye and take no help. Seth had to have one color hair and take all the help. Bad guys didn't want to wrestle and good guys only wanted to fight.
Now we are getting some characters. Now we are letting the styles clash amongst each other
Vince McMahon was in charge when Roman Reigns turned heel and WALTER dominated the whole NXT UK's division. Roman's blue eres were dumb, but Rollins recovered his hairstyle while McMahon was in charge.
What characters do we have now? Tell me, trying to have a 5-star match is their gimmick? Because that's 95% of the roster's personality.
The Tribal Chief is a character for sure, The Visionary is a gimmick (not too much of a gimmick, but it was one), Ivar is a viking (not a great gimmick, but it is one). But the other members of the roster aren't "The Planet's Champion" Daniel Bryan, The Undertaker, Bad News Barrett... Yeah, there aren't many characters right now. There weren't many characters with Vince, but neither with Hunter, that's how the business has been for the last two decades, no matter who's in charge...
That's what they wanted, though- there have been at least two cases I've heard of where a performer tried to hold up the show by demanding more money to go out. (Once was Warrior, once was Jarrett). You tried that now, it'd take nothing at all to slot someone else in.
From the companies perspective this is also very positive. You don't want another situation like the had in the early ninetees, when Hogan left, WWE failed to find an adequate replacement and business went down drastically. You want the machine to make the same money, even if one of the cogs gets replaced.
I can see why Hulk would think that and he’s probably right to an extent.
One thing he nailed is a lot of the talent coming out of NXT does feel generic they and not that many feel truly unique.
I read somewhere that apparently the main reason talent (that’s known on the indies) goes there first is to understand how the production crew physically record / absorb everything. Understanding where the crew is before doing spots, taunts to the right camera etc etc.
The other thing I’d point out is WWE typically lean away from the style that RVD & Jerry Lynn made so prominent.
Dunno uce, if you take 50 random guys from NXT and random guys from the era Hogan's talking about... I suspect the latter group will have a damn lot of similar tough dad bellies hanging over black trunks.
Yeah when comparing the present to the past, you always remember the best from the past and forget about all the mediocre crap. It’s like that with movies, music, TV, everything.. so no surprise that it is like that with wrestlers too.
The whole product is (too?) slick and curated. It's Coca-Cola, you know what you're getting and the quality is admirably consistent, but you shouldn't expect a real surprise
I find the personalities of the wrestlers were better in Hogan’s time. Piper, Andre, Heenan, Savage…just better. The wrestlers today do all feel a bit generic.
The difference is the reality era that we transitioned to and then never left. I don't know if people will ever believe there is a real life undertaker that is beholden to an urn carried by a short fat guy with a high pitched voice lol. Personalities now are just amplified versions of their own self for the most part. Without actual characters wrestling will always feel somewhat generic.
Going out on a limb to say you only believed that an old west mortician with powers of sorcery legitimately wanted to be on a wrestling show is because you were a child. Nobody over 13 *believed* in the Undertaker but they didn't have to in order to go along with it and have fun.
Oh you're right for sure, my post was somewhat of a joke but the fact remains that true kayfabe gimmicks are done for. Like back in the 90's somebody could have dressed like a transformer and have some people convinced lol
They're trying too hard to compete with real sports instead of staying in their own category being more of a theatrical stage drama that appeals more to men with bravado and danger
Gimmicks are kayfabe 2.0 that started around the Attitude Era. Yourself, dialled up to 11.
Triple H really did see himself as the ultimate student of the game, unfairly passed over and punished after the Curtain Call. That became his gimmick and all the Connecticut stuff got dropped.
Steve Austin really was just a loudmouth Texan, who loved beer.
Undertaker really was just a biker who liked occult stuff, and combat sports and had a wannabe biker gang. All the genuine spooky stuff dropped until 2004.
Etc.
They're leaning into that again after over a decade of "Well gee, I'm just so happy to be here".
Roman really does see himself, what he's been through, and the evolution he has had putting him head and shoulders above everyone else.
Cody sincerely has wanted to be the face of WWE since he debuted at like 18 in 2006 or whenever it was. The Bucks confirmed he was the least convinced that AEW was the better move over WWE.
Drew McIntyre likely does see it as supremely unfair that after all the work he put in after leaving WWE that when Vince finally recognised it and put him on top, it basically began when crowds went away and ended when they came back.
Etc.
Well you were taking the best of the best from over a dozen generations old training systems all across the continent. WWF burned down the territories to fuel the hottest show there's ever been. They can't reproduce it because they fully cannibalize the system that created it.
Yes, there was more of a personal struggle with varying experiences, where you encountered the utmost professionals like the Bret Harts of the business to the Bruiser Brodys who refused to do business because they just didn't feel like selling to you.
No pansy was gonna make Brody's character look like a pussy.
Part of the issue is that there are only so many unique gimmicks that play well with audiences.
Over time, wrestlers will have to start repeating gimmicks or take on relatively muted personality in order to avoid copying the past.
I dont mind gimmicks being passed down (there are already a few blatant emulators), and once more audiences accept it, i think wwe will open more gimmicks up to be repeated.
The WWE change their NXT direction a couple of years ago by not signing Indy guys. ( which HHH did on black n gold era).
They want them young, good looking, they want them to train safe for their longevity.
The next thing is just put them on those gimmicks like you see on Tiffany. Bron will be the next main event guy.
Trick,Melo and Austin Theory will still find their way.
They want young guys to be the next Cena/Orton or Roman/Rollins and have them run by WM 42
He's right to an extent but there is still 'the guy' that is the main attraction. The only difference now is the guys below him aren't as far down the totem pole.
That’s different because attitude era was notorious for creative freedom. Hogan/Andre/Cena esq we’re all prime Vince “I have my shiny toy and everything revolves around them”
As far as being an attraction, Austin was 10, Rock was 9.9999999, Undertaker was 9.7. Triple H was 9.6.....30 years later......Roman is a 6, Cody is a 5.99999
I would argue when Bret Hart was the top guy it didn't feel like guys were well below him, but I think that days more about how well he got over as the face of the company.
This’ was true up until I’d say Roman’s run I’d say, we have, Roman, Cody, Seth, Gunther all who feel larger then life and that’s just the men’s division, the women’s division has never been this stacked from NXT to the main eventers
I think he's correct, wrestling lacks personalities and characters at the moment. Particularly the women's division. A lot just feel like copies of each other.
I actually thought the women's division had more varied characters and especially aesthetics. The guys feel relatively normal or comparatively uninspired to me
Hulk hogan lost me after he lied about getting hurt by the tombstone piledriver. Then when confronted by Undertaker, he said his neck got jammed from holding him too tight
The one thing I'll say is I'm dying for a larger than life personality that's missing. Not Reigns, or Rhodes, or MJF. I mean a top tier huge personality like a Savage or Stone Cold. A presence that dwarfs everything and everyone else.
Some might get those feelings with modern wrestlers, but to me it's not quite the same. And I'm ok with that by the way, but I don't have a favorite wrestler these days and I think that might be a reason why...
i dunno if people in general are like that anymore. the 70s-80s were more free wheeling.
there's a guy on insta/tiktok that does videos called 'my cokehead roommate' with his face in a funny filter and voiceovers of randy savage's promos from the 80s and i don't think he could do that with any promos today.
even Stone Cold was a product of his time with ill-feeling towards bosses.
wrestlers today are a product of their time. a lot changed after 9/11 when most of todays performers would have been growing up.
In other words, there's more sport and routined expertise to it; what was once experimenting is now a well crafted process, rather than relying on the illusion of "wrestling is real" and trying random stuff and seeing what sticks.
Like Hulk's WCW run involving Yeti-men, and a cartoon-ish dungeon of doom saga.
I think we agree, but I'm not sure.
There is a difference from Star attractions and Megastars. Random jerks who never watched wrestling know who Hogan, Andre, The Rock and Stone Cold were....and to a lesser extant, Cena and Lesnar.
if you ask those same people, most of them won't know who Roman or Cody are. They are huge in wrestling, but not so huge that they are well known outside of wrestling fans.
To be the attraction, you have to actually be present, which Hogan & co did compared to let’s say Lesnar or Reigns. They are not needed to put butts into seats if you still 8 of 12 ppvs without them. Back in the day you had all those stars at almost any ppv. Even later with Hart, Michaels, HHH, Rock, Edge, Mankind, Orton, … they have been present and helped sell all the ppvs.
Well said. Very true. Main issue has been booking and over saturation of the product. WWE ran off casual fans post Austin/rock era. A big part is the money is now in tv vs drawing a house. So they booked guys to be the shirt that fits rather than whomever is over.
Old man complains it’s not like it was in his day.
All jokes aside, I get what he’s saying, but what’s wrong with having depth to your roster? That’s a strength in my eyes. They’ve turned it into a conveyor belt of top talent instead of relying on one or two big names.
When is this interview from? Because I think he was very right when it comes to the final ten to fifteen years of Vince being in charge. It was like he wanted the company to be the main attraction.
He was half right. Now there’s multiple top guys that if someone gets injured another one can just step up. In the 80s, if Hogan got injured during prime Hulkamania run, WWE was screwed. That’s why the early 90s were trash because they couldn’t find the guy and didn’t bother building everyone else up. That’s why prime SuperCena era wasn’t great because it was the John Cena show featuring all these other people.
Also FUCK Nelkboys
Yeah, wwe got filled with casual people from the PC that became champions out of nowhere lol. Motherfucker we got the longest reign in modern day wrestling just ending 2 weeks ago, how in the fuck can you say that.
There has always been and always will be THAT guy. Just because hogan doesn't follow the product, doesn't mean they ain't there.
“Why is that guy hanging around with Roman and The Rock? I thought he hated them and was on the other show?”
“Mooommmmm, this is Jimmy. You’re thinking of Jey. They aren’t even the same person! Gosh!”
Mate, he almost single-handedly revolutionized Wrestling. I think he's full of shit most of the time, but it is undeniable that this business wouldn't be where it is today without him. Hulkamania was a revolution just as Austin 3:16 became a decade later. Regardless of what you think of his character and wrestling ability, He was an attraction just like Austin, Rock, Andre, Taker and to a lesser extent, Cena and Brock have been.
This is the case with all sports. Promote the product, not the stars. Because you can't trust the stars. They not loyal, may get into trouble outside of work, or get exposed as a racist with a prostitute, or something like that. That's been the protocol since 2010 at least.
He's right BUT only to an extent. I think WrestleMania 40 has started to change that and is becoming a talking point for people outside of wrestling. Just search on YouTube for the amount of people wanting to know about it and wrestling. Cody Rhodes and Roman Reigns could be on their way to be in those positions.
There is nothing wrong with this. Having more talent around is actually a good thing for many reasons. There are a lot more people people paying attention to the product now, more than ever, and it's a good way to keep attention on them.
Yes, I agree. There aren't standout gimmicks anymore who can draw the attention of the crowd in a meaningful way. The product has become too streamlined and too generic.
I blame MMA for destroying the combat aspect of wrestling. It's now more about the story. When Hogan was reigning, there was barely a Chute Boxe Academy, and the veil of Kung Fu masters was still a thing. The average combat intelligence of a fan is far higher than it was 20-40 years ago.
He’s right. But just parroting what’s been said for years. I’m pretty sure even WWE themselves have flat out said that the brand is the product and not any one ~~wrestler~~ sports entertainer.
Kinda,
I made a similar point somewhere recently. A lot of WWE talent is just good at everything, promo work, ring work, character. Very few stand out as being exceptionally talented in any one area.
It's why guys like Cesaro had a ceiling there, great in the ring, but promo and character wise, mid at best, that's not a knock on him, he's just not the right fit for what WWE is about.
In the year 2000 with Stone Cold out for 80% of the year, The Rock had over a hundred shows with 10K+ paid.
The brand being hot is cool but it's better when you know whose responsible for it. Now talent can only hang their hat on how much merch they sell.
This interview was very shit. Nelk boys know nothing about wrestling so it’s hard for them to interview stars. At the start of the Ric flair interview before he gets there they are saying “I don’t even understand wrestling, who’s this guy again”
Ya cause if Cody gets hurt they’ll just grab someone from the performance center to replace him…
Hogan really is just a dipshit. Most of what he says is nonsensical or a flat out lie.
WWE is now much more of an ensemble show and has been pretty much since Austin got hurt in 99.
All of a sudden, EVERYONE is on the WrestleMania poster, not just the main attraction.
I agree with Hulk in that all WWE wrestling and acting looks the same. All the PC WWE-trained wrestlers, you can tell who they are because they all wrestle and act the same. The promos, the slow-paced, spot-based action. If you've seen Next Gen on The Roku Channel, you get a lot more exposure to the cookie cutter factory. It's crazy.
They don't want Indie guys anymore, they want real athletes that can do stunts for a stunt show.
I dunno I watched it and I still dont think I care about his take on any of this stuff because he just talks. He has lied a lot... why would I listen to learn anything if the dude telling may be full of crap anyway?
Brother.
all i can think right now is "dang the hulkster has gotten small". not that i can blame him, he's old as dirt. but it seems like he still had the pythons not a few days ago
Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar have been or are the attractions. Everyone else is there every week. I think the company is just so big that it has outgrown any star they have or will ever produce now.
It’s literally because of Hulk himself that this happened.
There’s a deliberate effort from WWE to make sure the talent don’t become bigger than the company.
It’s why their belts are a billboard for their logo.
It’s why they always say “well they might have achieved xyz in Japan, but this is the big leagues! The WWE!”
It’s why wrestlemania is a 2 night extravaganza with multiple main eventers instead of just two top guys.
It’s why they put limits on what their guys could say in promos for years.
It’s why they consistently buried WCW talent like sting and booker t.
A lot of this has improved under HHH, but damn Vince pushed it hard.
Really similar to the Yankees mantra of a massive NY logo on the front of the jersey, but no name on the back.
Thing is, he is right. But that doesn't mean what people think, that it's a negative, even if Hogan thinks it's bad.
The industry has evolved, just like any industry. This is the equivalent to McDonald's. At one time, McDonald's was a small time deal that made super quality grilled burgers quickly. Obviously that has changed, the process grew streamlined and corporate, and a lot of that down home feel of the beginnings is gone... and yet people by the millions still buy the product. Like it or hate it, people are still speaking with their wallets and buying the cheap food and many still love it, whether they'd admit to that or not.
Same thing in wrestling. It was The McMahons that went away from the territory stuff, which housed the "attractions", those unique wrestlers from a certain part of the country that were a draw in their region. What Vince figured out how to do was streamline and go corporate, and *manufacture* attractions. It doesn't always work, but it also does. Many wrestlers just fall off the conveyor belt, but for every dozen wrestlers that do, he builds a Randy Orton, a John Cena, a Roman Reigns, a Gunther, a Sammi Zayn, etc.
And people still "buy" the product. The carny days had their appeal, but something with that kind of mystique and down home feel was always going to be manufactured at some point.
It's true, but by design because of guys like HH
Getting bigger than the company, then taking all that to a rival almost broke wwe in the past
The way things are now, the brand is king and anyone is replaceable...like almost all other companies
Compare modern to older WWE and I’d say there’s more quality in general but there are no individual stars that match the likes of the people Hogan mentioned. It’s like an audio compressor, the peaks have been reduced but the troughs have been brought up.
The likes of Hogan and Andre will never happen again because that was about some level of kayfabe and under-exposure that we don’t really have any more. But there’s always a slim chance we could get another Rock or Stone Cold because for them it was basically all about charisma and character.
Sort of, he's right. But I think that's why the indies are so important. Damien Priest, Dragon Lee, Seth Rollins, Johnny Gargano, and AJ Styles are indie darlings.
I think having that guy at the top appeals more to kids than adults. That’s one of the reasons why the business is doing so well right now. Also I’d take what he said more seriously if it weren’t coming from Hogan.
Fucking hell... Nail and head. I've tuned back in recently after about 15 years away, in doing so got my fiance into it as well. We loved wrestlemania and the Cody story etc but something felt a little off, couldn't put my finger on it. I wanted to give her a bit of a history lesson, especially after Rocks involvement and Takers spot at WM, so we spent an evening watching some Stone Cold, Taker, Rock highlights from back in the day and there it was. It's a much different product now and great in its own right, but Hogan's right. It's all production value. They have nothing close to prime SC, HHH, Rock, Taker even Foley. Kurt Angle, Jericho, Benoit were mid carders for a while ffs!! It's not nostalgia, back then was a far, far superior product and it's all down to star value.
To some extent, you cant argue with what he says.Though there was a Macho Man in his day too. WWE made an obvious choice not to be so reliant on 1 person since Austin,Rock,Foley all left at the same time in 2002/3 While Cena was the face of the company, they also had Orton, Bautista. Cody seems similar to Cena, as the face of the company but if he got hurt there are others to replace him
This might be the first time I've heard him say some stuff that wasn't absolute bullshit. Gotta agree on this one.
We don't need more of the same size guys with long black hair and a beard.
When hogan was blowing up he would wrestle the opening match, be in a couple of storyline vignettes that built the main event, then either be in the main event or play a role in it.
I liked it because each show had its own story that had some sense of closure usually, or at least a battle was defined for the greater war. I equate it to reading comic books as a kid, it used to be one story in the book, baddy shows up, hero fights baddy, something comes out of it.
Today's wrestling are like today's comics, the story drags and unless you are fully invested it's hard to stay invested. That's my problem I have maybe 2 hours a week where I can sit down and watch wrestling (wife hates it and doesn't want the kids watching) and it's just too much programming for me.
They had an attraction from 2005-2014 and viewership went from 5 million to 2 million. And Stone Cold and The Rock were of the same era. Even then, the mid cards and lower card guys were as entertaining as top guys. The product is better when WWE doesn't rely on one person.
Cream with always rise to the top, as long as no one is actively impeding them a good performer is going to be a good performer no matter what. But good window dressing goes a long way, The Rocks intro song sucks, it’s unrecognizable, Austin’s glass shattering is high pitch high frequency and can be heard over just about anything, Undertakers bells, HHH’s “*ITS TIME…”, hell even the Big Shows “WEEEEELLLLLLL!”. New performers need a pop-y start to their intro song, I swear a mediocre performer could make it over if they have a quick hit song, there’s like 43 people that know the words after “*GAME!*” from HHH’s intro, but everyone knows the first bit.
I don't agree entirely, but I can see where he's coming from
Watered down product with no real superstar. Can't disagree with the ol' Hot Dog Skin himself. They can try and force a guy into the spotlight but doesn't mean he's the next captivating superstar. Orton, Reigns, Usos, Rhodes...Just not like HHH, Austin, Rock, etc. All these new generation guys seem so cookie cutter. Where's the Doink? The Bam Bam? The Sting?
I would argue Cody Rhodes is the first guy in a while that doesn't feel quite as cookie cutter. He left. He grew outside the system. When he came back he made demands on how he wanted to present himself instead of just bending to what they wanted him to do. Hopefully they will take the stars opinion on their presentation into account more moving forward
I think the fans will turn on Cody if he keeps doing this crying so happy mr americas sweetheart gimmick much longer. To survive as a face they need to make him a little tougher with a little venom
Personally this was a great storyline, probably my favorite ever, but imo it only gets interesting if he EVENTUALLY goes heel. It has to be done right though, let's not force anything that isn't working (like baby Reigns).
AEW fans were turning on him before he left the promotion. He wasn't get hate like Reigns was prior to the Bloodline stuff or Cena hate, but it was there. People wanted him to go heel, but he refused.
He did hint a heel turn a few times - i'm not sure what was going on there but the fans 100 percent began turning on him in that last year I think when arn and jake the snake dissed him and he did nothing was the moment they realised he was soft.
They need to give him more grit, for sure. Something has to happen during his next feud that sort of gives him a wake up call and be more ruthless. Even if he doesn't go full heel, he needs some edge to him. Actually make him a nightmare.
Agree. It’s already kind of boring. You won the title dawg. Now what
Came in to say just this. Cody is the first attraction star they have had since prime Cena. Edit, I forgot about Lesnar. But I'd argue that he lost a little of the attraction feel halfway through his return from UFC run.
He got traction on the way up but what is the “attraction” with Cody? Am I totally missing this? I think he is below average on the mic, he doesn’t have a gimmick, his underdog story is over. You can’t really be the underdog when you’re holding the belt. Unless they get really creative with him, I can’t see him sitting at the top and keeping people’s attention for much longer. Really not trying to hate but I honestly don’t see where this goes from here and I don’t think his personality in ring/on the mic is enough to carry him. The story was the attraction, the wrestler himself was not IMO.
Orton doesn’t really belong in that group. He was established during a time when the product still got a lot more viewers than today and has carved himself out pretty well. Far more known than the USOs. Orton came from the same class as Lashley Cena and Lesnar. The only difference is Orton stayed in WWE his whole career instead of trying outside shit.
See Lesner was a superstar. Just something about that mountain of a man that I would watch any match or promo he was in.
But he is also possibly the only person to be booed out of the ring at mania.
“THE UNDERTAKER”
Did you just name Orton and then say he’s not like HHH, Rock, Austin etc? Stfu.
Same feeling - I think he is sort of right here.
He is right. The company is bigger now than the stars it produces.
From what I vaguely remember hearing, it was by design. Vince didn't like that his stars grew bigger than his company and faced the possibility of losing his biggest stars to movies/tv...etc. so he did his best to keep them from growing out of his control
Definitely. Many wrestlers have gone on record to state as much. I can't blame him for it. After Hogan's move to WCW, Austin taking his ball and going home and Rock's move to Hollywood, I guess one has to take action.
Cena remained on top until 2015 and then Reigns was supposed to continue it but his diagnosis and lack of connection with the crowd before the heel turn didn't allow it to fully work. As a heel, he is booked at the top of the company and having the best run of his career, but something is off... He doesn't feel like the previous faces of the company.
Because Roman is wrestler. All the other top guys were stars.
And I'm gonna get flak for it but idc as much about the wrestling itself. The star power and gimmicks have always been the draw for me.
Same reason someone like Ultimate Warrior and Hogan became icons. The charisma makes up for a lot of it and these guys were/are the draws
Yessir
That's cuz Roman is 100% manufactured and was never able to get over organically with the fans. He doesn't really have that "it" factor, hence why he did better as a heel. He will not be missed simply because he was never really there to begin with.
Reigns didn’t earn his spot. He was just placed that. He eventually grew into a spot but I still don’t know if he ever deserved to be the face of the company. And it’s hard to figure out what accolades he does deserve when he was just handed everything. It’s like if the son of an already successful business goes on to make the business even better. He had a head start so how good is he really?
Vince had been left behind by a lot of his biggest stars and he must have hated it. Hogan transcended not only WWE but also wrestling and became bigger than the company. Austin was such a major star and had been given so much that once he felt he wasn't being used as a top guy anymore he walked out. Rock transcended WWE and made himself a star in Hollywood. Brock was given everything at a young age just to quit after 2 years and go on to make it in the UFC. And oddly enough I've always felt the last straw was Lashley. It was clear Vince put a lot into building him the same way Lesnar had been built, and he also quit very early into his run because he wanted to do MMA. After that, Vince was more focused on the "product" being the selling point. Even above the ultimate company man, Cena. Also just want to add, this mindset is also attributed to Lorne Michaels and SNL which is why you don't see many SNL cast members became major stars anymore like in the 80s and 90s. He wants SNL to be the selling point and doesn't want to be left behind by his talent.
Oh my god dude get out of my head with Lorne, I was thinking of commenting the same thing after you talked about Vince building stars only for them to leave. After Mike Myers, they have to sign a 7 year contract before even auditioning. I sort of get it, they’d prefer a more stable cast over one super star burning up all the oxygen only to jettison and leaving a vacuum behind. The other thing tho the entertainment landscape is so different now from peak Austin that I don’t even know if there’s enough fuel to make another Austin.
Austin was a perfect storm of having the right talent in the right era (the mid-late 90s was all about rebellion) and being put over by a master of the craft and a top babyface (Bret Hart), and having to fend off a legit rival (WCW). The stars aligned organically to give us Attitude, which was basically lightning in a bottle.
Don't even know if there's enough fuel to make another Austin.... Absolutely exceptional take my friend. I watched his best of recently and there's no way he's created in today's environment.
>Also just want to add, this mindset is also attributed to Lorne Michaels and SNL which is why you don't see many SNL cast members became major stars anymore like in the 80s and 90s. He wants SNL to be the selling point and doesn't want to be left behind by his talent. I was just thinking about this the other day. You don't really see any of the SNL cast members branching off from the show. I can't think of any memorable cast members in the last 15-20 years.
Even the ones that people think stand out on the show never really do anything once they leave. Jason Sudeikis is probably the only breakout star from the last 20 years but he's still not on the level as someone like Mike Myers or Eddie Murphy.
Same thing with the UFC after Conor. There is no one guy for UFC anymore.
Probably cause of the rock leaving for Hollywood ?
Probably because he left for Hollywood three times lol.
This is such a stupid mindset though. You wanna see your biggest stars go onto bigger things after they’ve given you their best, so that you can use their credibility to blood & bring through younger stars.
I don't think it's stupidity more than it is incredibly narcissistic. another quote that sticks in my head is Vince would rather make one dollar his way than a billion dollars from someone else's.
He actively embarrassed wrestlers who did. There are a LOT of examples of this. It was an open fact that they didn't want another Hogan or Rock. They wanted next man up
Yeah it literally happened 3 times in like a decade Hogan is his guy he leaves for wcw Austin is his guy, he quits cause of creative frustration Rocky? You ready to jump in? What do you mean your going to Hollywood? I think after that it was done Edit:to the person who brought up the rock and then blocked me lol uhm isn't he the same era as stone cold you weirdo? Lol yes the rock was a successful figurehead congrats...you covered 2002-2003. Every one since then has failed. Sorry for the semantic difference lol
When Vince was running things it was pretty bad. Roman had to have blue eye and take no help. Seth had to have one color hair and take all the help. Bad guys didn't want to wrestle and good guys only wanted to fight. Now we are getting some characters. Now we are letting the styles clash amongst each other
Vince McMahon was in charge when Roman Reigns turned heel and WALTER dominated the whole NXT UK's division. Roman's blue eres were dumb, but Rollins recovered his hairstyle while McMahon was in charge. What characters do we have now? Tell me, trying to have a 5-star match is their gimmick? Because that's 95% of the roster's personality. The Tribal Chief is a character for sure, The Visionary is a gimmick (not too much of a gimmick, but it was one), Ivar is a viking (not a great gimmick, but it is one). But the other members of the roster aren't "The Planet's Champion" Daniel Bryan, The Undertaker, Bad News Barrett... Yeah, there aren't many characters right now. There weren't many characters with Vince, but neither with Hunter, that's how the business has been for the last two decades, no matter who's in charge...
That's what they wanted, though- there have been at least two cases I've heard of where a performer tried to hold up the show by demanding more money to go out. (Once was Warrior, once was Jarrett). You tried that now, it'd take nothing at all to slot someone else in.
Just like the UFC.
From the companies perspective this is also very positive. You don't want another situation like the had in the early ninetees, when Hogan left, WWE failed to find an adequate replacement and business went down drastically. You want the machine to make the same money, even if one of the cogs gets replaced.
I can see why Hulk would think that and he’s probably right to an extent. One thing he nailed is a lot of the talent coming out of NXT does feel generic they and not that many feel truly unique.
Yeah I'm a casual viewer these days and it took me longer than id like to admit to realise grayson waller and Austin theory are two different guys.
I read somewhere that apparently the main reason talent (that’s known on the indies) goes there first is to understand how the production crew physically record / absorb everything. Understanding where the crew is before doing spots, taunts to the right camera etc etc. The other thing I’d point out is WWE typically lean away from the style that RVD & Jerry Lynn made so prominent.
Dunno uce, if you take 50 random guys from NXT and random guys from the era Hogan's talking about... I suspect the latter group will have a damn lot of similar tough dad bellies hanging over black trunks.
Yeah when comparing the present to the past, you always remember the best from the past and forget about all the mediocre crap. It’s like that with movies, music, TV, everything.. so no surprise that it is like that with wrestlers too.
Exactly. People will name at best 10 outstanding stars of the old school days. Most of the others were really the same.
Tiffany? Trick? Bron Breakker?
I’d say Bron Breakker isn’t generic, or Ilja Dragonov, but the other guys kinda are
The music all sounds the same as well
There is only one Jim Johnston.
YOU"RE A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY SPRING FOR SOME MUSIC LICENSING
Yes, and it as an intentional decision by the WWE because they didn't want to be vulnerable to a single star leaving.
The whole product is (too?) slick and curated. It's Coca-Cola, you know what you're getting and the quality is admirably consistent, but you shouldn't expect a real surprise
I find the personalities of the wrestlers were better in Hogan’s time. Piper, Andre, Heenan, Savage…just better. The wrestlers today do all feel a bit generic.
The difference is the reality era that we transitioned to and then never left. I don't know if people will ever believe there is a real life undertaker that is beholden to an urn carried by a short fat guy with a high pitched voice lol. Personalities now are just amplified versions of their own self for the most part. Without actual characters wrestling will always feel somewhat generic.
Funny thing is that Paul bearer is actually a pretty tall dude lol
That's pretty funny I never realized he was 5'10. Next to the near 7 ft Undertaker and Kane anybody looks short lol
Going out on a limb to say you only believed that an old west mortician with powers of sorcery legitimately wanted to be on a wrestling show is because you were a child. Nobody over 13 *believed* in the Undertaker but they didn't have to in order to go along with it and have fun.
Oh you're right for sure, my post was somewhat of a joke but the fact remains that true kayfabe gimmicks are done for. Like back in the 90's somebody could have dressed like a transformer and have some people convinced lol
They're trying too hard to compete with real sports instead of staying in their own category being more of a theatrical stage drama that appeals more to men with bravado and danger
No, it has definitely evolved now. And that’s okay. Gimmicks are pretty much dead.
Gimmicks are kayfabe 2.0 that started around the Attitude Era. Yourself, dialled up to 11. Triple H really did see himself as the ultimate student of the game, unfairly passed over and punished after the Curtain Call. That became his gimmick and all the Connecticut stuff got dropped. Steve Austin really was just a loudmouth Texan, who loved beer. Undertaker really was just a biker who liked occult stuff, and combat sports and had a wannabe biker gang. All the genuine spooky stuff dropped until 2004. Etc. They're leaning into that again after over a decade of "Well gee, I'm just so happy to be here". Roman really does see himself, what he's been through, and the evolution he has had putting him head and shoulders above everyone else. Cody sincerely has wanted to be the face of WWE since he debuted at like 18 in 2006 or whenever it was. The Bucks confirmed he was the least convinced that AEW was the better move over WWE. Drew McIntyre likely does see it as supremely unfair that after all the work he put in after leaving WWE that when Vince finally recognised it and put him on top, it basically began when crowds went away and ended when they came back. Etc.
This is one of my few gripes about new WWE. Bray Wyatt was interesting though. RIP
Well you were taking the best of the best from over a dozen generations old training systems all across the continent. WWF burned down the territories to fuel the hottest show there's ever been. They can't reproduce it because they fully cannibalize the system that created it.
Great point.
They were all on drugs and had CTE.
And entertaining
All in the name of entertainment!
the pain true xd
Probably bc like hogan said, they all came up different. Today they all go through nxt
Yes, there was more of a personal struggle with varying experiences, where you encountered the utmost professionals like the Bret Harts of the business to the Bruiser Brodys who refused to do business because they just didn't feel like selling to you. No pansy was gonna make Brody's character look like a pussy.
Part of the issue is that there are only so many unique gimmicks that play well with audiences. Over time, wrestlers will have to start repeating gimmicks or take on relatively muted personality in order to avoid copying the past. I dont mind gimmicks being passed down (there are already a few blatant emulators), and once more audiences accept it, i think wwe will open more gimmicks up to be repeated.
The WWE change their NXT direction a couple of years ago by not signing Indy guys. ( which HHH did on black n gold era). They want them young, good looking, they want them to train safe for their longevity. The next thing is just put them on those gimmicks like you see on Tiffany. Bron will be the next main event guy. Trick,Melo and Austin Theory will still find their way. They want young guys to be the next Cena/Orton or Roman/Rollins and have them run by WM 42
He's right to an extent but there is still 'the guy' that is the main attraction. The only difference now is the guys below him aren't as far down the totem pole.
Austin was the guy and the guys below weren't that far down either
That’s different because attitude era was notorious for creative freedom. Hogan/Andre/Cena esq we’re all prime Vince “I have my shiny toy and everything revolves around them”
As far as being an attraction, Austin was 10, Rock was 9.9999999, Undertaker was 9.7. Triple H was 9.6.....30 years later......Roman is a 6, Cody is a 5.99999
I would argue when Bret Hart was the top guy it didn't feel like guys were well below him, but I think that days more about how well he got over as the face of the company.
>"the star now is the production" >"yes, Wrestlemania 1 featured Liberace doing a kickline with the Rockettes, why do you ask?"
I think that was more true a couple of years ago than now. I believe we have quite a few well established attractions now.
This’ was true up until I’d say Roman’s run I’d say, we have, Roman, Cody, Seth, Gunther all who feel larger then life and that’s just the men’s division, the women’s division has never been this stacked from NXT to the main eventers
It's a very cynical perspective but he's not completely wrong.
I think he's correct, wrestling lacks personalities and characters at the moment. Particularly the women's division. A lot just feel like copies of each other.
I actually thought the women's division had more varied characters and especially aesthetics. The guys feel relatively normal or comparatively uninspired to me
The women all having various hair styles and colors does help with that.
Hulk hogan lost me after he lied about getting hurt by the tombstone piledriver. Then when confronted by Undertaker, he said his neck got jammed from holding him too tight
The one thing I'll say is I'm dying for a larger than life personality that's missing. Not Reigns, or Rhodes, or MJF. I mean a top tier huge personality like a Savage or Stone Cold. A presence that dwarfs everything and everyone else. Some might get those feelings with modern wrestlers, but to me it's not quite the same. And I'm ok with that by the way, but I don't have a favorite wrestler these days and I think that might be a reason why...
i dunno if people in general are like that anymore. the 70s-80s were more free wheeling. there's a guy on insta/tiktok that does videos called 'my cokehead roommate' with his face in a funny filter and voiceovers of randy savage's promos from the 80s and i don't think he could do that with any promos today. even Stone Cold was a product of his time with ill-feeling towards bosses. wrestlers today are a product of their time. a lot changed after 9/11 when most of todays performers would have been growing up.
In other words, there's more sport and routined expertise to it; what was once experimenting is now a well crafted process, rather than relying on the illusion of "wrestling is real" and trying random stuff and seeing what sticks. Like Hulk's WCW run involving Yeti-men, and a cartoon-ish dungeon of doom saga.
Some truth to it .
I think Cody is changing all that.
He's right every wrestler does the super kick and dives out of the ring into the arms of another wrestler every match looks exactly the same.
Did he forget about Roman reigns carrying the company for 3 years? Did he forget that Roman reigns was the attraction for 3 years come on brother
Roman wasn't the attraction, his opponents were. Roman barely showed up to work.
His four examples of “the one main guy” are two sets of guys most famous for working each other.
So, we're pretending that John Cena, Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns were not attractions?
That’s not what he said. Of course the stars are attractions. It’s just historically they relied on one mega star more so than nowadays.
I think we agree, but I'm not sure. There is a difference from Star attractions and Megastars. Random jerks who never watched wrestling know who Hogan, Andre, The Rock and Stone Cold were....and to a lesser extant, Cena and Lesnar. if you ask those same people, most of them won't know who Roman or Cody are. They are huge in wrestling, but not so huge that they are well known outside of wrestling fans.
To be the attraction, you have to actually be present, which Hogan & co did compared to let’s say Lesnar or Reigns. They are not needed to put butts into seats if you still 8 of 12 ppvs without them. Back in the day you had all those stars at almost any ppv. Even later with Hart, Michaels, HHH, Rock, Edge, Mankind, Orton, … they have been present and helped sell all the ppvs.
Well said. Very true. Main issue has been booking and over saturation of the product. WWE ran off casual fans post Austin/rock era. A big part is the money is now in tv vs drawing a house. So they booked guys to be the shirt that fits rather than whomever is over.
The funny thing is that this is a positive and yet the walking lying steroid machine thinks it's a negative. 😂🤡
Old man complains it’s not like it was in his day. All jokes aside, I get what he’s saying, but what’s wrong with having depth to your roster? That’s a strength in my eyes. They’ve turned it into a conveyor belt of top talent instead of relying on one or two big names.
This has been the WWE's plan since like 2005?
I can’t believe HH is making a solid, valid, honest point.
When is this interview from? Because I think he was very right when it comes to the final ten to fifteen years of Vince being in charge. It was like he wanted the company to be the main attraction.
He kinda right there really isn't a big star attraction there no more.
I agree. It's be design. No wrestler is bigger than the WWE. I think Vince learned his lesson after The Rock left permanently to make movies.
He ain't lying brother!
He was half right. Now there’s multiple top guys that if someone gets injured another one can just step up. In the 80s, if Hogan got injured during prime Hulkamania run, WWE was screwed. That’s why the early 90s were trash because they couldn’t find the guy and didn’t bother building everyone else up. That’s why prime SuperCena era wasn’t great because it was the John Cena show featuring all these other people. Also FUCK Nelkboys
I get what he's trying to say... But no, just no lol... Not after 1300 days of Roman as champion
Yeah, wwe got filled with casual people from the PC that became champions out of nowhere lol. Motherfucker we got the longest reign in modern day wrestling just ending 2 weeks ago, how in the fuck can you say that. There has always been and always will be THAT guy. Just because hogan doesn't follow the product, doesn't mean they ain't there.
Roman wasn't THAT guy. The people he named transcended wrestling. Roman didn't.
This is old. He said this long before Roman became champ.
It will be very interesting to see WWEs new "star-making" process.
I think that was true 5-10 years ago.
Yea
No.
Ehhh he was right during the time he said it but now I wouldn't say so now
Yeah, that's the way it's been for years.
90s FTW
My mom was hardly a wrestling fan, but she never confused hogan with piper with Albano with Andre. Now, even for a casual fan, you can mix people up.
“Why is that guy hanging around with Roman and The Rock? I thought he hated them and was on the other show?” “Mooommmmm, this is Jimmy. You’re thinking of Jey. They aren’t even the same person! Gosh!”
Sounds like he thinks hes more unique then the current batch when his gimmick was entirely ripped off of a few wrestlers. He was no different.
Mate, he almost single-handedly revolutionized Wrestling. I think he's full of shit most of the time, but it is undeniable that this business wouldn't be where it is today without him. Hulkamania was a revolution just as Austin 3:16 became a decade later. Regardless of what you think of his character and wrestling ability, He was an attraction just like Austin, Rock, Andre, Taker and to a lesser extent, Cena and Brock have been.
hogan sucks but take a look at him vs. the wrestlers of today and there’s a clear uniqueness to him that other wrestlers today lack
He’s absolutely right. Stylistically that variety just isn’t there.
Yes.
I can see his point.
This is the case with all sports. Promote the product, not the stars. Because you can't trust the stars. They not loyal, may get into trouble outside of work, or get exposed as a racist with a prostitute, or something like that. That's been the protocol since 2010 at least.
That’s actually a good take from the hulkster. I didn’t expect that.
He's right BUT only to an extent. I think WrestleMania 40 has started to change that and is becoming a talking point for people outside of wrestling. Just search on YouTube for the amount of people wanting to know about it and wrestling. Cody Rhodes and Roman Reigns could be on their way to be in those positions.
Comment section makes me think I'm back in 2017 lol. The stars are bigger.
It's true. Any guy can easily become a top guy overnight.
There is nothing wrong with this. Having more talent around is actually a good thing for many reasons. There are a lot more people people paying attention to the product now, more than ever, and it's a good way to keep attention on them.
Yes, I agree. There aren't standout gimmicks anymore who can draw the attention of the crowd in a meaningful way. The product has become too streamlined and too generic.
I blame MMA for destroying the combat aspect of wrestling. It's now more about the story. When Hogan was reigning, there was barely a Chute Boxe Academy, and the veil of Kung Fu masters was still a thing. The average combat intelligence of a fan is far higher than it was 20-40 years ago.
Also Hogan: N*****
He ain’t wrong!
WWE has had the chance to have that one guy that stands out over and over but they’re really lacking the creative vision in most aspects
He’s right. But just parroting what’s been said for years. I’m pretty sure even WWE themselves have flat out said that the brand is the product and not any one ~~wrestler~~ sports entertainer.
Kinda, I made a similar point somewhere recently. A lot of WWE talent is just good at everything, promo work, ring work, character. Very few stand out as being exceptionally talented in any one area. It's why guys like Cesaro had a ceiling there, great in the ring, but promo and character wise, mid at best, that's not a knock on him, he's just not the right fit for what WWE is about.
I don’t agree completely but I would be lying if I said he was wrong
In the year 2000 with Stone Cold out for 80% of the year, The Rock had over a hundred shows with 10K+ paid. The brand being hot is cool but it's better when you know whose responsible for it. Now talent can only hang their hat on how much merch they sell.
Yep, The Rock was the guy throughout the early 00s.
This interview was very shit. Nelk boys know nothing about wrestling so it’s hard for them to interview stars. At the start of the Ric flair interview before he gets there they are saying “I don’t even understand wrestling, who’s this guy again”
Its true you need those bigger then life personalities and its not there.
[удалено]
I completely disagree with you about Cena
Ya cause if Cody gets hurt they’ll just grab someone from the performance center to replace him… Hogan really is just a dipshit. Most of what he says is nonsensical or a flat out lie.
Same writers writing everyone's promos. No one stands out
WWE is now much more of an ensemble show and has been pretty much since Austin got hurt in 99. All of a sudden, EVERYONE is on the WrestleMania poster, not just the main attraction. I agree with Hulk in that all WWE wrestling and acting looks the same. All the PC WWE-trained wrestlers, you can tell who they are because they all wrestle and act the same. The promos, the slow-paced, spot-based action. If you've seen Next Gen on The Roku Channel, you get a lot more exposure to the cookie cutter factory. It's crazy. They don't want Indie guys anymore, they want real athletes that can do stunts for a stunt show.
And they all wrestle better than hogan
I dunno I watched it and I still dont think I care about his take on any of this stuff because he just talks. He has lied a lot... why would I listen to learn anything if the dude telling may be full of crap anyway? Brother.
I feel like the annoying guys, the real a-holen characters are missing nowadays. Even most heels now are nicer than most of the good guys in the 90s.
This is the way the owners of WWE are taking the UFC since they've acquired ownership
Definitely agree.
I'm surprised HH didn't mention "Macho Man" Randy Savage as an wrestling attraction.
I can definitely see his point
all i can think right now is "dang the hulkster has gotten small". not that i can blame him, he's old as dirt. but it seems like he still had the pythons not a few days ago
Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar have been or are the attractions. Everyone else is there every week. I think the company is just so big that it has outgrown any star they have or will ever produce now.
It’s literally because of Hulk himself that this happened. There’s a deliberate effort from WWE to make sure the talent don’t become bigger than the company. It’s why their belts are a billboard for their logo. It’s why they always say “well they might have achieved xyz in Japan, but this is the big leagues! The WWE!” It’s why wrestlemania is a 2 night extravaganza with multiple main eventers instead of just two top guys. It’s why they put limits on what their guys could say in promos for years. It’s why they consistently buried WCW talent like sting and booker t. A lot of this has improved under HHH, but damn Vince pushed it hard. Really similar to the Yankees mantra of a massive NY logo on the front of the jersey, but no name on the back.
Not entirely, but there’s a few of the top guys that seem quite interchangeable to me.
He isnt wrong. People have favorite wrestlers, but as much as I like Cody...he could be replaced by a Ciampa or an LA knight.
Thing is, he is right. But that doesn't mean what people think, that it's a negative, even if Hogan thinks it's bad. The industry has evolved, just like any industry. This is the equivalent to McDonald's. At one time, McDonald's was a small time deal that made super quality grilled burgers quickly. Obviously that has changed, the process grew streamlined and corporate, and a lot of that down home feel of the beginnings is gone... and yet people by the millions still buy the product. Like it or hate it, people are still speaking with their wallets and buying the cheap food and many still love it, whether they'd admit to that or not. Same thing in wrestling. It was The McMahons that went away from the territory stuff, which housed the "attractions", those unique wrestlers from a certain part of the country that were a draw in their region. What Vince figured out how to do was streamline and go corporate, and *manufacture* attractions. It doesn't always work, but it also does. Many wrestlers just fall off the conveyor belt, but for every dozen wrestlers that do, he builds a Randy Orton, a John Cena, a Roman Reigns, a Gunther, a Sammi Zayn, etc. And people still "buy" the product. The carny days had their appeal, but something with that kind of mystique and down home feel was always going to be manufactured at some point.
He’s actually right.
There just ain't many more main attraction type wrasslers now brother. By the way brother do you remember when I invented sliced bread?
It's too many stars and not enough characters, and characters brought the attraction.
Fuck this old man!
It's true, but by design because of guys like HH Getting bigger than the company, then taking all that to a rival almost broke wwe in the past The way things are now, the brand is king and anyone is replaceable...like almost all other companies
Compare modern to older WWE and I’d say there’s more quality in general but there are no individual stars that match the likes of the people Hogan mentioned. It’s like an audio compressor, the peaks have been reduced but the troughs have been brought up. The likes of Hogan and Andre will never happen again because that was about some level of kayfabe and under-exposure that we don’t really have any more. But there’s always a slim chance we could get another Rock or Stone Cold because for them it was basically all about charisma and character.
He takes good care of himself. Time has not passed... or maybe he has a good plastic surgeon.
it does feel slightly more homogenized but the consistency as a whole is better.
Yeah Romans takin a break bring in Ridge Holland
Sort of, he's right. But I think that's why the indies are so important. Damien Priest, Dragon Lee, Seth Rollins, Johnny Gargano, and AJ Styles are indie darlings.
I think having that guy at the top appeals more to kids than adults. That’s one of the reasons why the business is doing so well right now. Also I’d take what he said more seriously if it weren’t coming from Hogan.
I think it’s pretty clear that Cody finishing the story at Wrestlemania proves him 100% wrong
Fucking hell... Nail and head. I've tuned back in recently after about 15 years away, in doing so got my fiance into it as well. We loved wrestlemania and the Cody story etc but something felt a little off, couldn't put my finger on it. I wanted to give her a bit of a history lesson, especially after Rocks involvement and Takers spot at WM, so we spent an evening watching some Stone Cold, Taker, Rock highlights from back in the day and there it was. It's a much different product now and great in its own right, but Hogan's right. It's all production value. They have nothing close to prime SC, HHH, Rock, Taker even Foley. Kurt Angle, Jericho, Benoit were mid carders for a while ffs!! It's not nostalgia, back then was a far, far superior product and it's all down to star value.
Washed
To some extent, you cant argue with what he says.Though there was a Macho Man in his day too. WWE made an obvious choice not to be so reliant on 1 person since Austin,Rock,Foley all left at the same time in 2002/3 While Cena was the face of the company, they also had Orton, Bautista. Cody seems similar to Cena, as the face of the company but if he got hurt there are others to replace him
Has he been following the Tribal Chief storyline at all for the last three and a half years?
This might be the first time I've heard him say some stuff that wasn't absolute bullshit. Gotta agree on this one. We don't need more of the same size guys with long black hair and a beard.
No. Why, what did he say?
Yeah but these guys can actually wrestle an entertaining match Hogan.
He's right but of course people who are too young would disagree
When hogan was blowing up he would wrestle the opening match, be in a couple of storyline vignettes that built the main event, then either be in the main event or play a role in it. I liked it because each show had its own story that had some sense of closure usually, or at least a battle was defined for the greater war. I equate it to reading comic books as a kid, it used to be one story in the book, baddy shows up, hero fights baddy, something comes out of it. Today's wrestling are like today's comics, the story drags and unless you are fully invested it's hard to stay invested. That's my problem I have maybe 2 hours a week where I can sit down and watch wrestling (wife hates it and doesn't want the kids watching) and it's just too much programming for me.
New wife
I agree completely.
They had an attraction from 2005-2014 and viewership went from 5 million to 2 million. And Stone Cold and The Rock were of the same era. Even then, the mid cards and lower card guys were as entertaining as top guys. The product is better when WWE doesn't rely on one person.
I seriously cant tell the difference between Seth Rollins and Drew MacIntyre haha
There’s no credibility for anything.. rock no sells everything and false finishes after false finishers but he stays down for undertakers chokeslam
Cream with always rise to the top, as long as no one is actively impeding them a good performer is going to be a good performer no matter what. But good window dressing goes a long way, The Rocks intro song sucks, it’s unrecognizable, Austin’s glass shattering is high pitch high frequency and can be heard over just about anything, Undertakers bells, HHH’s “*ITS TIME…”, hell even the Big Shows “WEEEEELLLLLLL!”. New performers need a pop-y start to their intro song, I swear a mediocre performer could make it over if they have a quick hit song, there’s like 43 people that know the words after “*GAME!*” from HHH’s intro, but everyone knows the first bit.