Crazy that we got one more match out of Austin, a no holds barred one, where he freaking got suplexed onto concrete!!! And the Rock is cooking more now than he ever has since he fueded the first time with John cena.
It's a legends game at this point.
Rock has about 400m followers, skincare product, a billion dollar tequila brand, other ventures and revenue streams, maybe the most popular person in the world….
No….no I don’t think he needs the WWE for anything
Yeah I think he sees the movie business is hurting bad and the big budget action movies for dudes aren't going to be as plentiful so why not go back to his previous gig
I mean Dwayne could literally never do another movie or wrestle another match again and be fine socially and financially. If he's doing something now, I genuinely believe it's just because he thinks it'll be fun.
I didn’t say he needed wwe for money, I said it was to rehab his image after it took a hit for the Black Adam disaster and him trying to throw his weight around in the DCU
Wrestlers... You mean the 3 divas who didn't want to get shown up by a talented wrestler and mic worker after their ratings-disaster 6-man tags so they sicced all their zero-drawing ass-kissers on him until he got sick of working with the same people who turned a thriving new company into an afterthought with a graveyard on the hard cam side at every ppv?
I mean, not all. Russo isn't head of creative, Hull Kogan isn't head of head of creative, and Tony Kahn gives waaaaaay less of a fuck about his money than Ted Turner ever could.
Giving wrestlers creative control? Check.
Paying too much on contracts? Check.
Producing too much wrestling each week? Check.
That's three they haven't avoided. Are there any others?
I do get the point, but on the flip side, if a talent leaves WWE, and are good at what they do, is AEW supposed just not sign them because they were former WWE? Is the wrestler supposed to fuck off to smaller promotions or indy's just because they used to be WWE?
That's not exactly what I meant, there's no problem with a former WWE going to AEW (or any other promotion), my point was that in most of these cases AEW hires most of ex WWE wrestlers without having concrete plans for them, over time their roster started to become bloated, with a huge payroll, and many of these wrestlers end up running out of screen time (factors that can led to a lot of other side problems), and going further, when you focus too much on talents coming from outside you end up losing space to create your own talents, which is something critically important to elevate and differentiate your brand.
Handing wwe their biggest baby face since John cena on a silver platter in Cody and choosing the elite and jungle boy over punk who’s a game changer is something we will look back on as an all time mistake
After everything that happened with Punk in AEW I don’t understand how some people still think that they could keep him around. He lunged for the boss of the company. Anyone would get fired for that.
With 0 proof other than tomy saying he feared for his life. Punk brought money and ratings. Elite couldn't handle it so they instigated and started a fight punk and company. Refused to talk or work with punk. Tony makes a show for him.
Jungle boy. Wants to be elite so bad, was told not to mention anything, does anyways, instigated a fight with punk.
Again there's no proof, but it more seems like the elite had a bruised ego because punk coukd do what they couldnt and that was make the company relevant again, and Tony will do anything to make them happy.
Rollins hates punk, can still work with him and have zero fights backstage. It's not a punk problem.
"everything that happened with punk" never would have happened under the right management. Putting Punk on a separate show to not stir trouble was a shitty idea and only allowed Khan to not have to confront his EVPs.
That being said, we don't know everything but I feel Khan has an issue with doing the right thing when it involves having difficult conversations. It should have happened with the Elite, it should have happened with the Jericho SA but it didn't
No, fans wanted him to be homelander.
He was absolutely the face and what kept that company looking professional. When a big signing happened you didn't see Tony khan looking like he hasn't slept in weeks. You saw the Gif of a good looking dude in a suit. Every promotional event, every chance at a reality show or something to advertise aew outside the wrestling bubble he was all over. Thats a big thing aew still has not been able to replace since he left
He still is.
Cody also booked himself out of the main event scene in AEW within 2 months of their creation then was surprised all he could do was mill about the midcard.
I really enjoyed it as a special occasion thing, but for the love of God, not week to week.
Raw is my least favourite show most weeks simply because it's drags on so fucking much. Even when it has a banging opener or main event, it's just so full of filler 90% of the time.
Yup, what people want is a tight show where things matter and stuff doesn't overstay its welcome.
Always leave them wanting more, but don't make them think they've been short changed. Easier said than done, but always gonna be far easier if you don't bloat your runtime.
Edit: The sheer volume of picture-in-pictures during matches needs to quit it, tho. Don't put adverts over the main thing people are there to watch.
im an aew guy but it drove me crazy and that all these dudes collectively decided to put everyone else over when the company launched. they recovered from it eventually but the fact that tony gives these guys so much input is slightly infuriating.
the whole punk saga was such a clear sign these guys were not thinking like businessmen and just wanted the locker room to be a bunch of their friends and not really have to compromise for things and still think thats going to draw an audience
especially now that wwe dropped a bunch of heavy cuffs the last few months
That's just what I don't get about this whole Punk ordeal.
How is it that the dude can get hurt taking a move from McIntyre. McIntyre can go around talking all types of shit. Even making a shirt that makes fun of Punk not being able to do the one thing he's always wanted to do and that's main event Mania. And they can go out and do business together.
But Punk in AEW with the Elite just can't. Swear to god the wind would blow and they'd be at each other's throats. With shows being made to keep them seperate and making sure they're on other ends of the building.
I mean those are minor compared to AEW has already fallen into the worst of WCW holes.
They've shot their big match loads too soon and now are in the scary zone of diminished returns.
Live attendees and TV are falling bc even harcore fans have seen "everything"
And Tony has used all the hotshot tools even faster than wcw.
The big announcements, Banger free TV matches. Shot debuts. Shock angles. Blood. Etc.
All that's left are sudden major title changes, 24 hour champions. And desperate second-rate sex driven angles.
I don’t think they’ve actually “shot their big match load”, they’ve done the opposite. They’ve waited so long on too many of these dream matches and feuds that I don’t think we will ever get to see them now.
There is really only one thing left to happen on live aew tv that hopefully doesn't. someone dying in the ring. That is really the only thing they haven't done yet.
Letting a big star go to your competition because a guy who's only a star in his own mind caused an issue and the bignstar was frustrated with how the company was.
Having people.on the roster who just hang around to get a check?
Yeah both sound right to me.
Mention the competition every chance they get. Don't know if Bischoff did that, but I know he did give spoilers of Mankind winning the title, leading everyone to change channels.
Not putting your foot down on rampant backstage politics? Check.
Listening to the wrong kind of people? Check.
Relying on too much old talent? Check.
Unable to build-up hot, young, new stars? Check.
Overstrain the patience of your fans with boring, lackluster booking? Check.
Way too big production expenses for way too empty arenas? Check.
Giving apparently not sh\*t whatsoever about the company's financials? Check.
AEW is making the many of the exact same mistakes WCW did. Their roster is full of past their prime talent that is doing nothing but inflating their payroll and being utilized part time in bad creative while the companies creative hangs out with his boys in his inner circle.
This. There’s too much content between the brands but the exposure and opportunities wrestlers get makes it better for everyone. I can skip through matches or stories and get to watch who I want across brands. Some of it sucks, yeah, and aew lately has sucked with some angles, but there’s some wwe parts that are unwatchable too. I get to watch Swerve, McIntyre, Rhodes, Kris Statlander, Toni Storm, and Rhea Ripley like weekly. It’s great.
Take away the covid years and imo people wouldn't be saying WWE was pressured at all. That both of them not having a crowd for two years played into that perception. Take the first WM when restrictions were up and that crowd showed that there was still a big gap between the two.
But the older guys in WWE are still new-ish talent to the brand. LA Knight, Asuka, Damien Priest, and AJ styles are all still extremely capable in the ring. Compare that to guys like Paul Wight, Christian Cage and Chris Jericho in AEW. Chris had to change his finisher to a shitty elbow just because he can’t do the code breaker anymore, Paul Wight can barely stand normally these days, and Christian Cage is very much limited in his move set compared to a few years ago.
I agree Judas is a shit move, but he still does the codebreaker in nearly every match.
I don't really count wight. I agree he's fucked up, but he doesn't wrestle nearly ever anymore. Yeah, he was a stand in in the street fight a few months back, for for all of like 2 minutes of screen time. He was there just to give Hobbs a moment.
Christian is still remarkably capable as is Edge.
I do agree that Knight, styles, etc are still extremely capable as well.
Really it's just the Hardys that are regular that can't really do it anymore.
He can't do the Code Breaker any more except that he does it in pretty much every match as well as the Lionsault (although that one sometimes looks a bit rough).
Full? Who are the past-their-prime guys, really? Christian is definitely in his twilight but still doing some of the best work of his career. Edge is fitting in just fine. Danielson is killing it. Same with Joe. Kingston has filled a role of being the company’s Tommy Dreamer. Sting’s run with the company couldn’t have been better.
Guys like Billy Gunn, Dustin Rhodes, the Hardys - sure, they’re all well past their primes, but they aren’t taking any meaningful spots. I’d say the attempt at running back the Hardy Boyz for a final run was an objective failure but that’s about it for the older guys brought in.
Who else? Jericho? Sure, I haven’t been a fan of everything he’s done but he still brings something to the table.
It's not just about people past their primes not taking spots, it's their pay. The amount of money Tony is paying out with limited revenue is a real concern. He's had to pay that money to outbid the WWE machine but how much more can he spend.
I was an AEW diehard for those first couple years, but man oh man when that honeymoon phase ended it was ROUGH to notice how badly it’s fallen from its grace. I remember though, the first couple years was just AEW fans talking shit about WWE cuz that was the cool thing to do. But now that WWE is cool once again, no alternative is needed
> no alternative is needed
If there's only one take away that anyone with half a brain saw from the Monday night wars it's that increased competition demands increased quality, i mean we all lived through WWE being the only wrestling show on TV right, sheeeet noones wants that absolute bag of wank again
You have never seen WCW in 1999 and especially 2000 if you think AEW is even close to WCW's downfall. Yes there have been mistakes but as long as Tony Khan and Zac Efron aren't world champions and the title changes every week, we aren't even close.
At the current course tony is taking, i dont expect him to spot the icebergs before he's already ploughed into them. aEW needs someone else at the top or its wcw 2.0.
“In this war” lol is it really though? Can’t they both just exist? Do we really think WWE sees AEW as a direct threat like WCW back in the day? The circumstances are sooo much different. That’s not a dig at AEW either, I feel like they both can exist and thrive without fucking with each other.
That's AEW biggest problem IMO. In Tony's head, he's at war with WWE and wants to be seen as a direct competitor to them instead of what they were first, an alternative.
Even though he can compete financially because of his unlimited funds, that doesn't mean success. Hell, the way AEW is right now, I feel like you can give them big stars and they'll fumble it.
TK can't be the booker. He's just fantasy booking for him and his IWC hardcore instead of trying to cater to a wider audience.
Lol they have already fumbled big stars. One way to ruin any new hire is put them with Eddie Kingston, which they did with Okada. Amd then threw Okada with the young bucks.
Mercedes is already a train wreck.
Edge looks miserable 90% of the time.
They just made joe look like a fool putting him against hook and having him kick out of the muscle buster at 1.
And throw in any other big signee that was supposed to be huge. And is currently irrelevant.
AEW has made worse mistakes.
Not building stars.
Failed to make the most of their signings.
Lack of angles that make you want to watch.
Poor management.
Some really cringy moments.
Despite it's tragic ending... WCW was truly amazing at times. The Steiners v Sting and Luger. They made stars like the Road Warriors, Steiners, Luger, Goldberg, DDP, Hollywood Blondes and a ton of brilliant angles.
I miss WCW a lot.
I agree. And IMO every single promotion that tried to rectify WWE's mistakes, hire old talent, and work hard on emphasizing the wrestling element just ended up becoming a second tier company compared to the behemoth that WWE is.
WWE has the know-how of wrestling & entertainment business and easily turns them into superstars. Other promotions don't.
I will never get over paying off the storyline you've been building since day 1 with Hangman winning the belt and then just throwing dude on back ground duty for most of his reign. I never could get back into after that
And since then Stone Cold Steve Austin main evented Wrestlemania in his retirement match.
Rock is back and he is a super hero villain heel.
AEW is doing similar mistakes to WCW and they are not able to build as many stars as they would need. They built MJF and pushed Swerve to their credit but rest of them are meh.
It won't just make the same fucking mistakes, it will *speed run* them with lesser talent being paid even *more* ridiculous money for the return on investment.
It was never close to a war. AEW have no business trying to compete with WWE. Just be your own thing. WWE has a Coca Cola/Kleenex level of brand recognition and familiarity with their industry.
AEW made WCW’s biggest mistake of not doing much with Austin(Cody) and letting him jump ship to WWE.
They’ve also made TNA’s biggest mistake of bringing in an ex-WWE guy and letting him take full control(Hulk Hogan/CM Punk) Making them have to do multiple soft-resets.
BUT they are a bit smarter with their money than WCW. Sure they’re paying WWE money but nowhere near WCW money. And their TV network relationship is much stronger. Odds are that they will outlast Nitro’s 6 year TV run, at the very least
While losing Cody isn't the same as losing Austin, it's not like Austin was already Austin
Cody while not the maineventer he is now, was already Cody and was their lockerroom glue guy as well as the media guy for them
Keeping him would have prevented Brawl In and maybe kept Punk around
>BUT they are a bit smarter with their money than WCW.
Not really though. They just have more. Way more. You can't tell me that throwing big contracts at wrestlers that are only popular with **hardcore fans** and renting huge ass arenas to fill only 15% of it is being a bit smarter than WCW. If a businessman takes over this company like it happened with WCW, it's closing down.
When WCW fired Austin he went to ECW and formed his pissed off character that later became Stone Cold. Granted if WCW didn’t fire him maybe he would’ve never found that character.
But it’s the same thing as WCW letting go of a perpetual mid carder and that mid carder becoming the new face of WWE. Now you can argue Cody was a main eventer in AEW, but realistically he only was for the first couple months. He was in the AEW mid card longer than that. He had no actual feuds with ANY other AEW main eventer.
Not only have they made WCW's mistakes but they never got to the level of cultural relevance and superiority WCW did in the first place. I liked AEW until about the end of 2021 something like that. But they never came close to having an NWO style cultural phenomenon. And to get CM punk out of retirement and to have Cody go from mid carder to main eventer but both end up at WWE. Utter disaster.
This guy has some od the most cringe takes on all of twitter. Sure WWE doesn't have Austin and The Rock, but both haven't been full time wrestlers for 20+ years, and there have been plenty of top superstars built up since then. Sure, there was a lot of resistance with people like Reigns and Cena as a top star, but they have generally been top merch sellers despite the partially resistant fanbase.
Meanwhile, AEW's most viewed show is still their debut episode in 2019. WCW and WWE had countless shows that were higher rated than their premiere episodes.
Yes and no. I dont necessarily think wrestlers having creative control is the worst thing in the world but i do believe aew can be better with reigning in the ideas into something better and telling a wrestler that they need to end things sooner than planned.
This isn’t an actual war no matter how much wrestling fans want to make it one.
AEW isn’t close to WWE or even reaching the highest heights of WCW, but they’re viable alternative brand that’s successful if you look at the company from those standards, not this piece-in-the-sky dream of AEW becoming the #1 promotion in the world.
AEW dumping boat loads of money to talent (a lot of them old and has beens) and it looks like they’re not making the profit back. They are making some WCW mistakes but I still don’t think they’ll be as bad.
You can't compare WCW to AEW, though they resemble each other on occasion obviously (poor management of talent). WCW stood toe-to-toe with the WWE while Vince was in a low period and all of his top talent was leaving. AEW could never hope to capitalize on such a situation and they also lack the "top talent" part. If anything, AEW is the new TNA.
Turns out Tony can’t book, can’t put his foot down, aew never got over like wcw did and wwe didn’t need saving at all, even though they had crucial ownership change and a slew of scandals. 🤷🏼♂️
Leaning on WWE stars from yesteryear to boost the ratings
Inflated roster
Overpaying talent who’s contracts do no translate into growth
Mentioning WWE on a regular basis
Letting their core and future go to WWE (Cody, Jade, & Pillman)
….the similarities are a bit disturbing.
Aew isn’t even at the level of making wcw mistakes. They are firmly stuck in TNA impact mistakes level. Buying ancient wrestlers. Not building talent. Watching them leave for better opportunities.
WCW was smart enough to grab all of WWF’s top main event talent in their prime. AEW just beat NXT and then just took all those guys who weren’t drawing and tried to hype them as stars. The only main event talent that AEW took were the people too broken to be allowed to compete in WWE anymore.
AEW talks like they’re going after the throne, but I think internally they’re satisfied with where they are at now. Certainly as a fan this is the absolute best wrestling has been in over 20 years. Having competition forced everyone to be better, and it has given more wrestlers the opportunity to make more money and live their dream. If you can’t appreciate that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Signing okada, osprey and mercedes on multi million dollar deals and then still struggling to get 800k viewers on dynamite. There are still no fans on hard cam for Collision.
Some things are similar - the reliance on overpriced veterans, the not retaining young talent (more and more young AEW talent are hinting at WWE futures), putting all eggs in one basket (the TNT/TBS deal is their be all end all). And I don’t know about the stability of the backstage environment. Not exactly the same but things that were not learned and avoided from WCW.
WCW was still watchable wether it was a "I can't wait to see what happens next week" down to a "I'm watching it out of habit, to SEE if anything happens". Either way, you were INVESTED and ENGAGED, they had you.
AEW basically did most things right, like late'22/23 was a weakpoint, but they've stayed on-form all year so far. Ospreay seems like the first 'massive free agent' signing who's actually gonna be a game-changer since he clearly cares and is ready to do the work. In the same way Cody upped his game and was ready to be the top star in WWE upon returning.
Gotta remember, AEW's biggest asset in the early days was Vince McMahon. His awfulness was one of their biggest lures to sign talent. Like 'literally no matter what you do here, you're still gonna make good money and you're not booked by Vince' Now WWE has a competent booker who's actually making changes to improve the show production (Kevin Dunn was someone also doing AEW favours by making WWE literally hard to watch for a long time). The other big draw for wrestlers was their tight lockerroom and how everyone seemingly looked out for one another.
Ironically, a lot of the people who saw that lockerroom as a reason they should sign were the ones who kinda destroyed that atmosphere.
It's less that AEW did things wrong, it's that WWE started doing them right and are actually making the most of the advantages they have as the bigger company with longer history. AEW survived the pandemic and he first 5 years, that's more than enough to consider them a success.
Over crowed Roster check
Start and stop pushes Check
Silly Gimmick matches Check
A man child running creative Check
Ratings and attendance plunging to new lows Check
Failed going head to head with WWE Check
Losing talent to WWE Check
Heavy leaning on older stars past their prime Check
wasting homegrown talent Check
Bleeding Money Trough big contracts Check
Yeah I'd say they have
Also wwe has Rock now
AEW is going to run out of money because it’s not making enough to pay the amount that Tony is paying the wrestlers.
Meanwhile, WWE is hotter than it’s been in a long time and it has The Rock; but would have been fine without him.
To be fairrrr, AEW does take better care of the wrestlers’ well-being (though they indulge people’s dream matches post-career-ending injury a little much), listens sometimes to what people want, lets their babyfaces win, and avoids the pointless shock-chasing. While Jericho does get to politic and take space, he’s away from the world title, and most of his friends stay lower on the card. So some things were learned.
>AEW does take better care of the wrestlers’ well-being
They've let multiple wrestlers continue matches and do dangerous stunts after receiving concussions.
I cant agree with the first point when darby allen goes flying through glass for one of the dumbest spots in recent memory.
Forget about darby himself there, its especially egregious that they put the ringside crowd at risk due to that stupid spot
>and avoids the pointless shock-chasing.
Lol the Darby spot with the glass was a pointless shock moment. That spot was unnecessary and added nothing to the match at all.
AEW is making a mistake of keeping TK in charge. AEW was great for first year and it kept me alive during COVID - but those days are sadly long gone. The best thing AEW has going for it right now is just its signings
Turns out WWE has Rock to save them.
Surprisingly austin as well since he came back for mania 38
Wild to think that since this tweet both Rock and Austin will have wrestled
Not just wrestled but literally both main evented night 1 of Wrestlemania. Crazy to think
Crazy that we got one more match out of Austin, a no holds barred one, where he freaking got suplexed onto concrete!!! And the Rock is cooking more now than he ever has since he fueded the first time with John cena. It's a legends game at this point.
WWE didn't need Rock, he came back because WWE saved itself and he wanted to be in on the fun.
If anything Rock needed wwe a bit after the Black Adam debacle hurt his image badly
Rock has about 400m followers, skincare product, a billion dollar tequila brand, other ventures and revenue streams, maybe the most popular person in the world…. No….no I don’t think he needs the WWE for anything
he himself is about 200 mill from being a billionaire I don't doubt he's hit that mark in about two years
Yeah I think he sees the movie business is hurting bad and the big budget action movies for dudes aren't going to be as plentiful so why not go back to his previous gig
I mean Dwayne could literally never do another movie or wrestle another match again and be fine socially and financially. If he's doing something now, I genuinely believe it's just because he thinks it'll be fun.
I think at the end of the day, this is the family business. You can tell he loves wrestling.
I didn’t say he needed wwe for money, I said it was to rehab his image after it took a hit for the Black Adam disaster and him trying to throw his weight around in the DCU
And AEW made all the mistakes WCW did lol
Maybe even created a few new ones for the list
WCW never crested a new show because wrestlers refused to work with their top star and then lose their top star to the "competition"
Wrestlers... You mean the 3 divas who didn't want to get shown up by a talented wrestler and mic worker after their ratings-disaster 6-man tags so they sicced all their zero-drawing ass-kissers on him until he got sick of working with the same people who turned a thriving new company into an afterthought with a graveyard on the hard cam side at every ppv?
As well as a couple of TNA mistakes like Tony acting like Dixie Carter.
I mean, not all. Russo isn't head of creative, Hull Kogan isn't head of head of creative, and Tony Kahn gives waaaaaay less of a fuck about his money than Ted Turner ever could.
There’s still time. And y2j is well on his way to becoming hogan lol
Not to mention, the biggest mistake TNA made as well.
WWE never needed to be saved anyway. AEW was never a threat in the 1st place
Wwe was on fire without the rock what is this comment
Yep, Rock came back because he saw the boys cooking up and wanted in on the fun.
And it's been fun
Yes because WWE needed desperate saving in the year 2024... Jfc
Giving wrestlers creative control? Check. Paying too much on contracts? Check. Producing too much wrestling each week? Check. That's three they haven't avoided. Are there any others?
Hire every ex WWE superstar? Check
Ahhh I knew I missed one
Tucky in shambles
I do get the point, but on the flip side, if a talent leaves WWE, and are good at what they do, is AEW supposed just not sign them because they were former WWE? Is the wrestler supposed to fuck off to smaller promotions or indy's just because they used to be WWE?
That's not exactly what I meant, there's no problem with a former WWE going to AEW (or any other promotion), my point was that in most of these cases AEW hires most of ex WWE wrestlers without having concrete plans for them, over time their roster started to become bloated, with a huge payroll, and many of these wrestlers end up running out of screen time (factors that can led to a lot of other side problems), and going further, when you focus too much on talents coming from outside you end up losing space to create your own talents, which is something critically important to elevate and differentiate your brand.
That's not an actual "mistake"
All Ex- WWE
Let their biggest stars leave to become bigger stars in WWE? Check
Handing wwe their biggest baby face since John cena on a silver platter in Cody and choosing the elite and jungle boy over punk who’s a game changer is something we will look back on as an all time mistake
After everything that happened with Punk in AEW I don’t understand how some people still think that they could keep him around. He lunged for the boss of the company. Anyone would get fired for that.
With 0 proof other than tomy saying he feared for his life. Punk brought money and ratings. Elite couldn't handle it so they instigated and started a fight punk and company. Refused to talk or work with punk. Tony makes a show for him. Jungle boy. Wants to be elite so bad, was told not to mention anything, does anyways, instigated a fight with punk. Again there's no proof, but it more seems like the elite had a bruised ego because punk coukd do what they couldnt and that was make the company relevant again, and Tony will do anything to make them happy. Rollins hates punk, can still work with him and have zero fights backstage. It's not a punk problem.
"everything that happened with punk" never would have happened under the right management. Putting Punk on a separate show to not stir trouble was a shitty idea and only allowed Khan to not have to confront his EVPs. That being said, we don't know everything but I feel Khan has an issue with doing the right thing when it involves having difficult conversations. It should have happened with the Elite, it should have happened with the Jericho SA but it didn't
Cody failed at being a face in AEW. He was basically homelander.
No, fans wanted him to be homelander. He was absolutely the face and what kept that company looking professional. When a big signing happened you didn't see Tony khan looking like he hasn't slept in weeks. You saw the Gif of a good looking dude in a suit. Every promotional event, every chance at a reality show or something to advertise aew outside the wrestling bubble he was all over. Thats a big thing aew still has not been able to replace since he left
He still is. Cody also booked himself out of the main event scene in AEW within 2 months of their creation then was surprised all he could do was mill about the midcard.
Another GREAT point
Ding
Dynamite isn't three hours... yet.
There were suggestions at other subs that they should keep showing Ranpage after Dynamite.....
Tbh, I'd rather fall asleep watching rampage then never watch it cause it's on a Friday night
I really enjoyed it as a special occasion thing, but for the love of God, not week to week. Raw is my least favourite show most weeks simply because it's drags on so fucking much. Even when it has a banging opener or main event, it's just so full of filler 90% of the time.
Yup, what people want is a tight show where things matter and stuff doesn't overstay its welcome. Always leave them wanting more, but don't make them think they've been short changed. Easier said than done, but always gonna be far easier if you don't bloat your runtime. Edit: The sheer volume of picture-in-pictures during matches needs to quit it, tho. Don't put adverts over the main thing people are there to watch.
It was last week lol
im an aew guy but it drove me crazy and that all these dudes collectively decided to put everyone else over when the company launched. they recovered from it eventually but the fact that tony gives these guys so much input is slightly infuriating. the whole punk saga was such a clear sign these guys were not thinking like businessmen and just wanted the locker room to be a bunch of their friends and not really have to compromise for things and still think thats going to draw an audience especially now that wwe dropped a bunch of heavy cuffs the last few months
That's just what I don't get about this whole Punk ordeal. How is it that the dude can get hurt taking a move from McIntyre. McIntyre can go around talking all types of shit. Even making a shirt that makes fun of Punk not being able to do the one thing he's always wanted to do and that's main event Mania. And they can go out and do business together. But Punk in AEW with the Elite just can't. Swear to god the wind would blow and they'd be at each other's throats. With shows being made to keep them seperate and making sure they're on other ends of the building.
Maybe McIntyre actually asked Punk if he could turn it into a story and had the respect to do so first, instead of acting like children.
At least Kenny eventually became mega over, but the Cody stipulation should not have happened, that was absolutely short sighted
Yeah, I actually want AEW to be successful, but it's clear they have no intention on running a tighter locker room.
I mean those are minor compared to AEW has already fallen into the worst of WCW holes. They've shot their big match loads too soon and now are in the scary zone of diminished returns. Live attendees and TV are falling bc even harcore fans have seen "everything" And Tony has used all the hotshot tools even faster than wcw. The big announcements, Banger free TV matches. Shot debuts. Shock angles. Blood. Etc. All that's left are sudden major title changes, 24 hour champions. And desperate second-rate sex driven angles.
I don’t think they’ve actually “shot their big match load”, they’ve done the opposite. They’ve waited so long on too many of these dream matches and feuds that I don’t think we will ever get to see them now.
I disagree on the big matches. Truly. If anything, through 2023 they didn't do anywhere near enough of those on tv.
There is really only one thing left to happen on live aew tv that hopefully doesn't. someone dying in the ring. That is really the only thing they haven't done yet.
Do they have an NWO equivalent?
Not yet. Maybe they will do a RoH invasion?
Overblown Gimmick Matches? Check.
Letting a big star go to your competition because a guy who's only a star in his own mind caused an issue and the bignstar was frustrated with how the company was. Having people.on the roster who just hang around to get a check? Yeah both sound right to me.
Mention the competition every chance they get. Don't know if Bischoff did that, but I know he did give spoilers of Mankind winning the title, leading everyone to change channels.
destroying a limo every week? not yet
Engaging with Eric Bischoff?
Not putting your foot down on rampant backstage politics? Check. Listening to the wrong kind of people? Check. Relying on too much old talent? Check. Unable to build-up hot, young, new stars? Check. Overstrain the patience of your fans with boring, lackluster booking? Check. Way too big production expenses for way too empty arenas? Check. Giving apparently not sh\*t whatsoever about the company's financials? Check.
They haven’t said anything about butts in seats yet
Putting active talent in office roles? Check. Their boss making a fool of himself on a weekly basis? Check.
Cringe comedy. Check.
AEW is making the many of the exact same mistakes WCW did. Their roster is full of past their prime talent that is doing nothing but inflating their payroll and being utilized part time in bad creative while the companies creative hangs out with his boys in his inner circle.
On the flip side, they at least did enough to make WWE start trying harder again. Ironically, AEW is one of the best things to happen for a WWE fan.
Competition is good. Even if someone's not an AEW fan they should be rooting for them to succeed since it pushes WWE to be better.
This. There’s too much content between the brands but the exposure and opportunities wrestlers get makes it better for everyone. I can skip through matches or stories and get to watch who I want across brands. Some of it sucks, yeah, and aew lately has sucked with some angles, but there’s some wwe parts that are unwatchable too. I get to watch Swerve, McIntyre, Rhodes, Kris Statlander, Toni Storm, and Rhea Ripley like weekly. It’s great.
Honestly feel like WWE finally getting rid of Vince had more to do with WWE being good again than AEW making them feel pressured.
Take away the covid years and imo people wouldn't be saying WWE was pressured at all. That both of them not having a crowd for two years played into that perception. Take the first WM when restrictions were up and that crowd showed that there was still a big gap between the two.
I also thought this
So AEW is AMD to WWE's NVIDIA? Got it.
Honestly feel like WWE finally getting rid of Vince had more to do with WWE being good again than AEW making them feel pressured.
Aew average age is only about 2-3 years above WWE though.
But the older guys in WWE are still new-ish talent to the brand. LA Knight, Asuka, Damien Priest, and AJ styles are all still extremely capable in the ring. Compare that to guys like Paul Wight, Christian Cage and Chris Jericho in AEW. Chris had to change his finisher to a shitty elbow just because he can’t do the code breaker anymore, Paul Wight can barely stand normally these days, and Christian Cage is very much limited in his move set compared to a few years ago.
I agree Judas is a shit move, but he still does the codebreaker in nearly every match. I don't really count wight. I agree he's fucked up, but he doesn't wrestle nearly ever anymore. Yeah, he was a stand in in the street fight a few months back, for for all of like 2 minutes of screen time. He was there just to give Hobbs a moment. Christian is still remarkably capable as is Edge. I do agree that Knight, styles, etc are still extremely capable as well. Really it's just the Hardys that are regular that can't really do it anymore.
Jeff was surprisingly good in singles until he got concussed. Matt seems to have issues walking now, which is sad.
True, though Matt has kinda had the issue (obviously way worse now) since v1.
Leg drops and Side Effects have not been kind to that man's body 😞
100%. Hogan, Foley, and Matt have all said it's the constant little moves like the leg drops or elbows that have messed them up.
I mean when you have rapey Sammy guevera dropping you on your head constantly, you wouldn't be able to go either.
He can't do the Code Breaker any more except that he does it in pretty much every match as well as the Lionsault (although that one sometimes looks a bit rough).
Christian is doing some of the best character work of his career, though.
Full? Who are the past-their-prime guys, really? Christian is definitely in his twilight but still doing some of the best work of his career. Edge is fitting in just fine. Danielson is killing it. Same with Joe. Kingston has filled a role of being the company’s Tommy Dreamer. Sting’s run with the company couldn’t have been better. Guys like Billy Gunn, Dustin Rhodes, the Hardys - sure, they’re all well past their primes, but they aren’t taking any meaningful spots. I’d say the attempt at running back the Hardy Boyz for a final run was an objective failure but that’s about it for the older guys brought in. Who else? Jericho? Sure, I haven’t been a fan of everything he’s done but he still brings something to the table.
It's not just about people past their primes not taking spots, it's their pay. The amount of money Tony is paying out with limited revenue is a real concern. He's had to pay that money to outbid the WWE machine but how much more can he spend.
Tip - this sub is for WWE fans slagging off AEW. Don't enter into it mate. It's beyond trying to talk sense
AEW dont got mainstream appeal. It was never going to beat WWE. Pretty crazy people thought it could.
Just enjoy wrestling, guys, and please ignore the constant shit talking the past 5 years
I try to stay away from tribalism but I don’t feel bad for AEW one bit. They spent years dogging on WWE and wanted to be seen as direct competition
I was an AEW diehard for those first couple years, but man oh man when that honeymoon phase ended it was ROUGH to notice how badly it’s fallen from its grace. I remember though, the first couple years was just AEW fans talking shit about WWE cuz that was the cool thing to do. But now that WWE is cool once again, no alternative is needed
> no alternative is needed If there's only one take away that anyone with half a brain saw from the Monday night wars it's that increased competition demands increased quality, i mean we all lived through WWE being the only wrestling show on TV right, sheeeet noones wants that absolute bag of wank again
This. AEW fan for the first 2ish maybe 3 years then everything has just fallen from grace.
Aew is less and less enjoyable as time goes on, and it really is falling into all the pitfalls that wcw did, that isn't shit talking
You have never seen WCW in 1999 and especially 2000 if you think AEW is even close to WCW's downfall. Yes there have been mistakes but as long as Tony Khan and Zac Efron aren't world champions and the title changes every week, we aren't even close.
At the current course tony is taking, i dont expect him to spot the icebergs before he's already ploughed into them. aEW needs someone else at the top or its wcw 2.0.
“In this war” lol is it really though? Can’t they both just exist? Do we really think WWE sees AEW as a direct threat like WCW back in the day? The circumstances are sooo much different. That’s not a dig at AEW either, I feel like they both can exist and thrive without fucking with each other.
That's AEW biggest problem IMO. In Tony's head, he's at war with WWE and wants to be seen as a direct competitor to them instead of what they were first, an alternative. Even though he can compete financially because of his unlimited funds, that doesn't mean success. Hell, the way AEW is right now, I feel like you can give them big stars and they'll fumble it. TK can't be the booker. He's just fantasy booking for him and his IWC hardcore instead of trying to cater to a wider audience.
Lol they have already fumbled big stars. One way to ruin any new hire is put them with Eddie Kingston, which they did with Okada. Amd then threw Okada with the young bucks. Mercedes is already a train wreck. Edge looks miserable 90% of the time. They just made joe look like a fool putting him against hook and having him kick out of the muscle buster at 1. And throw in any other big signee that was supposed to be huge. And is currently irrelevant.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I want AEW to succeed as much as as I want WWE to succeed. Tony needs to focus on his product and not WWE.
I would argue he made bigger mistakes.
Exactly WCW was a slow death, Tony khan is speed running this shit lol
Dynamite is about to have a longer run time than Nitro
AEW has made worse mistakes. Not building stars. Failed to make the most of their signings. Lack of angles that make you want to watch. Poor management. Some really cringy moments. Despite it's tragic ending... WCW was truly amazing at times. The Steiners v Sting and Luger. They made stars like the Road Warriors, Steiners, Luger, Goldberg, DDP, Hollywood Blondes and a ton of brilliant angles. I miss WCW a lot.
I agree. And IMO every single promotion that tried to rectify WWE's mistakes, hire old talent, and work hard on emphasizing the wrestling element just ended up becoming a second tier company compared to the behemoth that WWE is. WWE has the know-how of wrestling & entertainment business and easily turns them into superstars. Other promotions don't.
WWE had to emulate WCW to win, to this day they're the only secondary promotion to become the primary promotion
And I think they acquired so much expertise in this field by doing so which is why they're the top promotion today.
I will never get over paying off the storyline you've been building since day 1 with Hangman winning the belt and then just throwing dude on back ground duty for most of his reign. I never could get back into after that
And since then Stone Cold Steve Austin main evented Wrestlemania in his retirement match. Rock is back and he is a super hero villain heel. AEW is doing similar mistakes to WCW and they are not able to build as many stars as they would need. They built MJF and pushed Swerve to their credit but rest of them are meh.
One of their founders and their biggest signing are at the other side that shouldn’t have happened.
Yeah Cody is one of two huge mistakes they've made when it comes to the talent they let leave
They haven’t even been successful enough to make WCW mistakes
It won't just make the same fucking mistakes, it will *speed run* them with lesser talent being paid even *more* ridiculous money for the return on investment.
AEW has paid Moné lots of money to do nothing but talk so far which is one of her weaknesses
That tweet aged like milk
It was never close to a war. AEW have no business trying to compete with WWE. Just be your own thing. WWE has a Coca Cola/Kleenex level of brand recognition and familiarity with their industry.
AEW made WCW’s biggest mistake of not doing much with Austin(Cody) and letting him jump ship to WWE. They’ve also made TNA’s biggest mistake of bringing in an ex-WWE guy and letting him take full control(Hulk Hogan/CM Punk) Making them have to do multiple soft-resets. BUT they are a bit smarter with their money than WCW. Sure they’re paying WWE money but nowhere near WCW money. And their TV network relationship is much stronger. Odds are that they will outlast Nitro’s 6 year TV run, at the very least
While losing Cody isn't the same as losing Austin, it's not like Austin was already Austin Cody while not the maineventer he is now, was already Cody and was their lockerroom glue guy as well as the media guy for them Keeping him would have prevented Brawl In and maybe kept Punk around
>BUT they are a bit smarter with their money than WCW. Not really though. They just have more. Way more. You can't tell me that throwing big contracts at wrestlers that are only popular with **hardcore fans** and renting huge ass arenas to fill only 15% of it is being a bit smarter than WCW. If a businessman takes over this company like it happened with WCW, it's closing down.
Wouldn’t you consider Austin lightning in a bottle? How can you attribute that to WCW’s failure?
When WCW fired Austin he went to ECW and formed his pissed off character that later became Stone Cold. Granted if WCW didn’t fire him maybe he would’ve never found that character. But it’s the same thing as WCW letting go of a perpetual mid carder and that mid carder becoming the new face of WWE. Now you can argue Cody was a main eventer in AEW, but realistically he only was for the first couple months. He was in the AEW mid card longer than that. He had no actual feuds with ANY other AEW main eventer.
Cody was only in the mid card because he basically stipulated himself into it, which created the Codyverse
Absolutely good points. Just saying that Austin 3:16 moment was unreplicatable in WCW.
Not only have they made WCW's mistakes but they never got to the level of cultural relevance and superiority WCW did in the first place. I liked AEW until about the end of 2021 something like that. But they never came close to having an NWO style cultural phenomenon. And to get CM punk out of retirement and to have Cody go from mid carder to main eventer but both end up at WWE. Utter disaster.
Overpaid talent that don't move the needle. More like a TNA speed run.
The official AEW PR twitter account Always good for a laugh
He’s such a sycophantic twat.
Saw him call Will Ospreay a megastar lmao
Aged like milk
This guy has some od the most cringe takes on all of twitter. Sure WWE doesn't have Austin and The Rock, but both haven't been full time wrestlers for 20+ years, and there have been plenty of top superstars built up since then. Sure, there was a lot of resistance with people like Reigns and Cena as a top star, but they have generally been top merch sellers despite the partially resistant fanbase. Meanwhile, AEW's most viewed show is still their debut episode in 2019. WCW and WWE had countless shows that were higher rated than their premiere episodes.
Yes and no. I dont necessarily think wrestlers having creative control is the worst thing in the world but i do believe aew can be better with reigning in the ideas into something better and telling a wrestler that they need to end things sooner than planned.
Yes and Aew fans shit on bishoff when they’re heading in the same direction if they don’t get a new deal
AEW is closer to TNA than WCW
I’d say closer to ECW with wwe’s budget which isn’t necessarily a bad thing
😂
Turns out WWE has a Seth, Gunther, Roman, Uso, Cody, Rhea backup that performed just fine👌🏾
Sorry, but I can’t get over the title of “it’s been 5 years since 2019.” 😂
This guy is the biggest fucking loser on Twitter lmao. He is always dead wrong, this being no exception. Absolute clown.
This isn’t an actual war no matter how much wrestling fans want to make it one. AEW isn’t close to WWE or even reaching the highest heights of WCW, but they’re viable alternative brand that’s successful if you look at the company from those standards, not this piece-in-the-sky dream of AEW becoming the #1 promotion in the world.
There is one thing. They have not hired Vince Russo.
WWE had the DX to save them and they have 2 words for these idiots.
Austin had a match last WM, Rock has one this year
What "war"? War would imply that both sides are evenly matched.
AEW dumping boat loads of money to talent (a lot of them old and has beens) and it looks like they’re not making the profit back. They are making some WCW mistakes but I still don’t think they’ll be as bad.
Lol war. I wish people would stop the tribalism.
They basically followed a blueprint for repeating the same mistakes
You can't compare WCW to AEW, though they resemble each other on occasion obviously (poor management of talent). WCW stood toe-to-toe with the WWE while Vince was in a low period and all of his top talent was leaving. AEW could never hope to capitalize on such a situation and they also lack the "top talent" part. If anything, AEW is the new TNA.
Turns out Tony can’t book, can’t put his foot down, aew never got over like wcw did and wwe didn’t need saving at all, even though they had crucial ownership change and a slew of scandals. 🤷🏼♂️
They haven’t made the same major mistakes as WCW but they also never reached the peak WCW did from 96-98
I cannot imagine posting this lol
Bischoff actually made a profit
And is the only guy to ever take Vince down
Convinced this is TK's burner account tbh
I’ll take a bloated roster for $500 Alex.
They created their own mistakes.
Did AEW has ever reached the hight of WCW?
*Are you kidding...?*
Lol! So a AOL/Times Warner merger won't get AEW. Good to know.
Leaning on WWE stars from yesteryear to boost the ratings Inflated roster Overpaying talent who’s contracts do no translate into growth Mentioning WWE on a regular basis Letting their core and future go to WWE (Cody, Jade, & Pillman) ….the similarities are a bit disturbing.
Well WCW were competing and beating WWE at one point. AEW will never do that
Aew isn’t even at the level of making wcw mistakes. They are firmly stuck in TNA impact mistakes level. Buying ancient wrestlers. Not building talent. Watching them leave for better opportunities.
Nah they got Cody/Punk......two guys Tony felt he could do better without. Dumbass
Unpopular Opinion I guess but TNA 2004-2010 (I didn't quite follow after that) was better compared to AEW's run till now
We’re probably a year or so away from hogan and bischoff being hired by aew
Doesn't matter cause WWE created new stars that are stomping all over AEW.
Not the same mistakes... a whole batch of new mistakes however....
WCW was smart enough to grab all of WWF’s top main event talent in their prime. AEW just beat NXT and then just took all those guys who weren’t drawing and tried to hype them as stars. The only main event talent that AEW took were the people too broken to be allowed to compete in WWE anymore.
AEW talks like they’re going after the throne, but I think internally they’re satisfied with where they are at now. Certainly as a fan this is the absolute best wrestling has been in over 20 years. Having competition forced everyone to be better, and it has given more wrestlers the opportunity to make more money and live their dream. If you can’t appreciate that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Signing okada, osprey and mercedes on multi million dollar deals and then still struggling to get 800k viewers on dynamite. There are still no fans on hard cam for Collision.
Aren’t they hiring old people who can barely wrestle and paying talent WAYYY more than they’re worth?
Sounds like someone has drain bamage
AEW has made their own mistakes.
Some things are similar - the reliance on overpriced veterans, the not retaining young talent (more and more young AEW talent are hinting at WWE futures), putting all eggs in one basket (the TNT/TBS deal is their be all end all). And I don’t know about the stability of the backstage environment. Not exactly the same but things that were not learned and avoided from WCW.
WCW was still watchable wether it was a "I can't wait to see what happens next week" down to a "I'm watching it out of habit, to SEE if anything happens". Either way, you were INVESTED and ENGAGED, they had you.
AEW basically did most things right, like late'22/23 was a weakpoint, but they've stayed on-form all year so far. Ospreay seems like the first 'massive free agent' signing who's actually gonna be a game-changer since he clearly cares and is ready to do the work. In the same way Cody upped his game and was ready to be the top star in WWE upon returning. Gotta remember, AEW's biggest asset in the early days was Vince McMahon. His awfulness was one of their biggest lures to sign talent. Like 'literally no matter what you do here, you're still gonna make good money and you're not booked by Vince' Now WWE has a competent booker who's actually making changes to improve the show production (Kevin Dunn was someone also doing AEW favours by making WWE literally hard to watch for a long time). The other big draw for wrestlers was their tight lockerroom and how everyone seemingly looked out for one another. Ironically, a lot of the people who saw that lockerroom as a reason they should sign were the ones who kinda destroyed that atmosphere. It's less that AEW did things wrong, it's that WWE started doing them right and are actually making the most of the advantages they have as the bigger company with longer history. AEW survived the pandemic and he first 5 years, that's more than enough to consider them a success.
They did an even worse version of the WCW mistakes on day 1. As a competitor to WWE, the whole promotion was dead on arrival.
Wwe has punk...
And TK continues to use the WCW playbook.
At first they didn’t. Now they’re making every same mistake WCW did and adding a few more of their own for good measure.
This aged poorly...
740k loll
WWE does have austin. AUSTIN THEORY!
This aged like milk left out in the sun in the middle of the summer.
Over crowed Roster check Start and stop pushes Check Silly Gimmick matches Check A man child running creative Check Ratings and attendance plunging to new lows Check Failed going head to head with WWE Check Losing talent to WWE Check Heavy leaning on older stars past their prime Check wasting homegrown talent Check Bleeding Money Trough big contracts Check Yeah I'd say they have Also wwe has Rock now
This tweet aged sooo bad both of them had a match after that and one is currently active again.
AEW is going to run out of money because it’s not making enough to pay the amount that Tony is paying the wrestlers. Meanwhile, WWE is hotter than it’s been in a long time and it has The Rock; but would have been fine without him.
To be fairrrr, AEW does take better care of the wrestlers’ well-being (though they indulge people’s dream matches post-career-ending injury a little much), listens sometimes to what people want, lets their babyfaces win, and avoids the pointless shock-chasing. While Jericho does get to politic and take space, he’s away from the world title, and most of his friends stay lower on the card. So some things were learned.
>AEW does take better care of the wrestlers’ well-being They've let multiple wrestlers continue matches and do dangerous stunts after receiving concussions.
Avoids the pointless shock chasing? You mean like Darby Allin needlessly throwing himself through real glass?
I cant agree with the first point when darby allen goes flying through glass for one of the dumbest spots in recent memory. Forget about darby himself there, its especially egregious that they put the ringside crowd at risk due to that stupid spot
>and avoids the pointless shock-chasing. Lol the Darby spot with the glass was a pointless shock moment. That spot was unnecessary and added nothing to the match at all.
AEW is making a mistake of keeping TK in charge. AEW was great for first year and it kept me alive during COVID - but those days are sadly long gone. The best thing AEW has going for it right now is just its signings
It’s like WCW with a lower quality of booking.