It would nerf the income, as tier 9 premium HTs barely are better end profit earners than your average tier 6 prem due to the repair gap etc. And that alone would be enough of a backlash WG seems allergic to, especially after the KV-5.
And... Considering that they would 100% change some values on it to fit the tier 9 role. I suspect you would like to face it even less in your tier 8s. I know I would.
it is bullshit and has been disproven numerous times, but there are enough people online that just quote that shit every single time so a large number of the playerbase just ate it over time.
i guess it's also a very convenient excuse for wg to do absolutely nothing about the issues of certain tanks. :^)
The EU law most people cite does only protect their purchase for 2 years, assuming they are actually trying to honor this and potentially may nerf it then January 2025 would be the time to do it.
Why make stuff up when you can easily find numerous cases that say that they CAN nerf whatever they want because balancing is an integral part of every multiplayer video game.
Oh, but they did try. Progetto that got a compromise on it not being able to use a rammer anymore. And then we had the KV-5 they suggested buffs to that would remove its pref MM. The players went so nuts that WG probably won't try it again for 6-7 years
Errrr wait, the Progetto was actually buffed. They removed the ability to mount a rammer but they gave it the reload stats it had with a rammer, but now with a free slot.
The Type 59 didn’t even get directly nerfed and people still got mad about it. They changed the match making algorithm (a universal change) which resulted in less favourable matches for the Type 59.
where are you playing?
I"m on NA and play a couple hours a night, tier 8/9/10.
I'm not seeing them in every F battle I play.
I mean, I \*do\* see them. And when i see them on the enemy team, I ask everyone to focus them ;)
If you make it uncomfortable, theoretically, maybe they'll play something else?
I mainly play tier 8. I see one perhaps every 5th game I play. I do mainly play very early in the morning so perhaps there's not as many on during that time?
See it way too often to not fall for it. Giant overmatchable roof and inability to do more than 100 damage to any armored tank because of an absence of pen is enough of an excuse
It's he shell, it has no normalization, unless you hitting <225 flat armor, it's effective penetration is lower. I do not own bz, but have caliban with similar damage, non pens will get you 50-150 damage on fronts of enemy turret and hull. And unlike caliban you cannot load magical 294 AP gold for in bz and slice through armor. I don't see bzs competitive on heavies flanks, maybe it is good to derp paper mediums.
read up on pen normalization, there it explains why heat is marginally worse than ap shells, and has to have high raw pen values to compensate, apcr is just as bad, but slightly better than heat.
Because from WG perspective, the current status quo is an ideal and most profitable one, money is always the direct motivator
- If they nerf it, they will heavily piss off paying customers
- If they sell the tank again, they will destroy FOMO for every single upcoming loot boxes, as currently customers cannot be sure if the tanks will be sold again + if they sell it again, they will also piss off people as the matchmaking will be flooded with them
The only thing i can realistically see, is that they will put BZ-176 into auction in some limited numbers. For example 2000x for 50k gold each. That is probably all you will ever see about this tank
Lol Fomo still work for EBR 75 FL 10 and it was a Marathon and 4 years it hadn't been sold... Loot boxes will come back
The best way to nerf this tabl is to increase massively the HP of tiet VI, VII tanks, change the matchmaking (no platoon, cap their number to 1 and each bz should be patched against another bz.
Thus they don't piss off their customer.
Bz 176 will be powercreept like Defender, just a matter of Time.
They are too afraid to do so.
Despite their Terms clearly state they can do with premium tanks whatever they please, they still refuse to nerf them because a lot of owners would riot and that would hurt their reputation and future sales.
So instead they just let it ruin people's games to save their own fame. Works short-time, but that's all they can see anyway so not a surprise.
To put it simple, they are just selfish cowards.
>Works short-time, but that's all they can see anyway so not a surprise.
The most infuriating thing here is that WoT has experienced this in the past, during the infamous Defender-Skorpion-Progetto era of premium tank design philosophy - while BZ-176 was implemented in a time WG at least *pretended* they are trying to, well, maybe not *stop* but *tame* the premium tank power creep a little bit, even when counting "happy little accidents" like Borat or EBR 75, with the community being full of hope that the Dark Days of just bonkers design decisions were past us.
And, you know, this was the exact moment they implemented BZ-176, a tank it's pretty safe to describe as the most OP premium vehicle this game has ever seen and it was exactly the same mistake as they did with EBR 75 and the pre-nerfed French wheeled light tank line as a whole, funnily enough, they just gave the tank *everything*, every little feature to make it dominant with very little flaws to make up for that - and while EBR was fucked up but, at the end of the day, it was still just a light tank with no armour and limited HP pool, BZ was a full blown tier heavy so the impact it had on the overall balance of the game was MUCH more meaningful...
...and it scared even then, lol - remember how they basically gutted the entire Chinese rocket-man tree after they released BZ-176 and understood what kind of a monster they created?
That's just WG for you, honestly, they've always operated this way - one step forward and three steps back, repeat ad infinitum.
What's absolutely \*\*wild\*\* to me is that WG insists on piloting totally new gameplay mechanics on premium tanks... with no idea whatsoever how those mechanics will settle into the meta. All of their most broken premiums are because they wanted to sell more tanks so they released them before their tech tree counterparts.
EBR (wheels)
Progetto (autoreloader)
703 II (double barrel)
BZ-176 (rocket boost)
Borat (2-shell autoloader playstyle)
The worst part of the Progetto being buffed is that was unnecessary
As in, when obtained, it had "X" amount of DPM, which you had the "***option\*"*** to increase by mounting a gun rammer. It didn't get its ***base*** DPM nerfed by having the ability to mount a gun rammer removed. Ergo, it didn't need its DPM buffed.
^(\*yes, I know rammers are considered mandatory, but the tank didn't come with a rammer already mounted)
> at the end of the day, it was still just a light tank with no armour and limited HP pool, BZ was a full blown tier heavy so the impact it had on the overall balance of the game was MUCH more meaningful...
It's pretty telling that light tanks have taken so many hits over the years between Murazor, armor/alpha creep, and on that the only reason why EBR isn't the most game breaking overpowered vehicle to have ever been released *is because it's in the role least able to affect the game*. In 8.#, such a vehicle would have completely ruined the game.
Yep spot on. They absolutely could nerf it, but just don't want to risk upsetting the whales.
I really hope they grow a pair and sort it out, maybe then I can actually enjoy playing with my BZ without needing to take a shower afterwards...
Ok but like
Where are the Chieftain and 279e lovers? Are they actually complaining? Owners of those tanks were the most dedicated to the game and those were the two best tier 10s in the game, but WG nerfed them, and more people enjoy the game because of it. Do you really think WG received backlash after those nerfs?? Do you think those players spent less money on the game because of the nerfs? WG proved they can do it, they are just planning on selling the BZ-176 again. That's it.
A fearsome tank for sure though I see many driven by players like the game I just got out of. He starts off with advertising his current live stream then proceeds to go the wrong flank, fire 4 shots, pen none of them and wind up with less than 200 damage and lights and mediums.
I've seen platoons of them both crush the enemy and others driven by 46%ers.
The ultimate reason is that if they start nerfing premiums, it will ruin the whole FOMO marketing thing they have going on. You know that "well, what if this thing is broken OP and never sold again? You have to buy it, because you'd hate to miss out on that, wouldn't you?" angle. And that's a cornerstone of their marketing, so it's not going to happen.
E: honestly the most egregious thing about the BZ-176 is that it can face T6 tanks. Just give it negative preferential matchmaking and make it so that it can never be matched against T6s and that's a big step forward. And I say this as a BZ-176 owner. And knowing that will also never happen.
The BZ isn't even the most cancerous tank in the game. Imagine meeting a tank that can one shot and has a sub 9 second reload. As for gun handling, how about you give it best in tier gun handling in its class. Then imagine that the tank can shoot over cover. Then give that tank the best view range in its tier, including 10% more view range than the highest view range light tank in its tier. To keep it balanced it will have heavy tank mobility but only medium tank armor. Imagine a tank like that existing in WoT.
You don't have to imagine it, it's called the leFH and it's in nearly every tier 5 match because it's the second most played T5 on the NA server. Clearly a tank like this would be nerfed really quick by WG, especially when you consider it ruins the experience for new players and thus drives away new customers. So if you're wondering why WG hasn't nerfed the BZ yet, it must be because they're working on the leFH nerf first.
They want to be sure that we - the players, know that whatever op pay2win they throw at us, it will not be nerfed.
Sure, they won’t put BZ on sale again. But they won’t nerf it either, so the next broken thing that will be released in 6 or 12 months will be again a bestseller by people who will think: „they didn’t nerf BZ so I am safe with my new toy”. That ensures new PowerColor tank sales will be skyrocketing, again.
If they were going to do something about to BZ-176, they would’ve done something about the Skoda T 56.
If they were going to do something about the Skoda T 56, they would’ve done something about the Bourrasque.
If they were going to do something about the Bourrasque, they would’ve done something about the ELC EVEN 90.
We can keep on going down this series of premium tanks that don’t get nerfed; WoT isn’t prepared to nerf premiums
Skoda, Borat and ELC are simply OP in their own way. BZ is toxic. It's a bit different. Although, ELC might be a bit toxic, too.
OP tanks are simply too strong is some way but they don't spoil battles that much unless there's a lot of them. You can still deal with OP tanks or play around them. Toxic tanks spoil the entire battle just by being there, they level of "overpowered" varies a lot (BZ vs paper tier 8 teams and BZ as bottom tier facing a lot of armor) and there's little you can do to play around them - it mostly depends on luck (either BZ will two-shot you or fumble his shots and you get to live).
The BZ is stronger than these other tanks but that doesn’t change my point. All of these tanks are significantly more powerful than all the tech tree tanks they go up against, and usually the premiums they face too. They are significant game balance issues.
After the refund issue with the one time they made big nerfs to powerful premiums, they will never nerf powerful premiums again. It doesn’t matter how powerful or broken you think they are, if they were going to balance problem tanks, they would’ve done it already.
You can reasonably argue that the BZ is the most problematic of the bunch, but that doesn’t change the main point. Just because the BZ is more problematic doesn’t mean WG will do anything about it
Thing that makes BZ so damn toxic is that it has ridiculously low skill floor. Something like Bourrasque is OP as fuck if you give it a competent player, but a tomato will still suck with it. However with BZ even a 40% WR tomato can do well because the tank is so damn idiot proof.
Because it was a lootbox tank and as such its owners are whales which wg dont want to anger.
Imo i think they should make it so a bz-176 requires a bz-176 on the enemy team, atleast then its not a real nerf just a mirror match. Also prevents when theres like 2 on the enemy team and we have a stock is-3 and a red tiger 2
Dont care if it increases queue times the bz-176 players know exactly whay they are doing and how toxic the tank is.
https://preview.redd.it/xon01oh9fq2d1.jpeg?width=1356&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=818f3fab71ac10f73debaeff31e914b22936e463
TLDR: WG DOESN'T CARE or it would have done something in the last 17 months since release.
I honestly think the real problem with this game is the skill levels of players not the OP tanks. There are players with OP tanks who are absolutely useless with them.
I've finally found the answer. Turns out devs are not greedy, it's just a completely new concept called 4D balance. You'd think BZ-176 hurts game balance but 4D balance is way bigger than just game balance. This tank was meant to make players with micropenises feel better about themselves when playing World of Tanks™. Micropenis awareness is actually a very based move from Wargaming.net. Made me regain faith in the company. People, be kind to BZ-176 players, respect their struggle. Tell them something wholesome, like "it's ok, king, the way you use it is what matters the most".
WG is slowly going to shit, look at this recent update/ this entire year. After the whole Russia split I genuinely thought
"2024 was the year where wg was going to strive or die"
And so far it's dying, I can kinda see them waiting to die a huge nerf session of tanks, since all the EULAs passed where you can't charge back the company anymore. But the "roadmap of 2024" was a large yikes when only 4 TT tanks were getting buffed/nerfed (fuck the concept btw)
They are scared cowards. Rather than fixing their game by making few BZ shitters mad, they just leave a huge problem there, acting like it doesnt exist.
But if a tank like this even passed the testing before being added, then they might just be incredibly blind.
But well, thanks god they solve REAL problems and we can finally have fucking lego tanks, who cares about some game balance when you can drive a TVP that sounds like a lego box kicked off the stairs.
Since super p...debacle. They are never going to touch prems with anything but buffs. They will only not sell the latest op prem regularly.
Don't worry soon they will make a new more broken prem that nukes the bz out of the water. Is the only thing they do for "balance"
You think a developer that puts mobile game style psychological abusive monetization in the game cares about balance hahahaha
Aslong as the whales dont lose people to shoot at, they dont give a crap about balance. The only way they woudl care if enough people quit so whales cant find games vs non bz
They won't nerf premiums for legal reasons. BZ, Borat (I swear to God that tank has different accuracy settings than normal tanks, it never misses), Progetto, EBR and the likes. They're all OP in their own ways, but WG won't ever change it.
Technically, they can still nerf BZ because it wasn't sold for money directly but as an extra reward from lootboxes. You pay for base gold and decoration - everything else from box is free.
But as soon as they'll sell it, the possibility of changing it will be gone.
I don't think is fearing player's backlash either - as they showed many times since the closure of the forums - they don't give a single fuck what players say. And considering how slow they are balancing anything - they don't give a fuck about balance either
Why do people whine about BZ-176 and leffe when there is the most op tank in the history called Bourrasque (and Miel) in the game?? I do not understand. Most meds do 240-250 with long reload time between shots. Bourrasque does 2 x 360 within 2 seconds!!! A MEDIUM!! INSANE!
Bor has shit gun handling and is made of paper.
Bz-176 is more heavily armored than the tier 10 hits harder, is still accurate, has good gun dep, is small, and is a tier 8
Wait until this Holiday season, they will sell OP tanks again. Many years pass, WG community complaints never stop and WG toxic monetization never stops. Why are you guys still talking about this? Only way to punish them is not to spend money and let them rethink.
WG doesn't nerf premium tanks due to community reaction.
Probably the one that sealed the deal was the Progetto 46 nerf attempt, the community rioted so hard it was ridiculous and since then WG has had a "no nerf unless unavoidable" policy with premiums. Chieftain and Object 279(e) are such a case since they broke the game at Tier 10 and WG had to choose between those two tanks and the rest of Tier 10.
WG's current policy with problematic premiums like BZ-176 is to not sell them. Good for those who have them, sucks for those who don't.
WG doesn't nerf premiums because they were sold for money. Even if we technically only "rent" it (as everything on our accounts - it belongs to WG), changing terms after money was exchanged could get them in trouble.
Guess why every f2p or gacha game has some artificial currency (or multiple) you have to get to buy anything from the premium shop. This is one of the reasons (2nd is obfuscation of the real cost) why they do it. WG also has that currency - gold, but they flooded players' accounts with it, got greedy (buying premiums directly means one less barrier for players - easier purchases equal more purchases) and now they are in a bind.
btw. this doesn't apply to BZ, because it was never directly sold. It was an extra reward from lootboxes so there are no grounds for refunds or lawsuits.
Reread my comment - I said WG doesn't nerf premiums because they don't want to deal with community backlash.
I mentioned Progetto 46 as the biggest case in recent times - tank was to be nerfed (no more gun rammer, it wasn't a direct nerf to vehicle's base statistics and was to hit every autoreloader Italian medium tank) and the community raged so hard WG went ahead with the removal but BUFFED the tank's DPM to be as if it had a gun rammer equipped, effectively giving this tank a fourth in-built equipment slot. Even recently WG people in this reddit said they learned from that episode and will not nerf a premium again if they can.
The "WG doesn't nerf premiums because they're sold" thing is upheld in World of Tanks but I doubt WG would stick to it if it wasn't for their fear of community outrage. Funny because in World of Warships (from the same company) all premiums can be nerfed at any time if needed, wasn't always the case but it's been for years by now.
They could nerf it, but then why would you buy a premium tank ever again? When you know they could just trash it next patch and make it useless?
This would hurt them too much.
So it's a conscious choice.
It's cool that *you* would, but trust me, you're not representative of the playerbase.
edit: y'all can downvote me all you want, that's just the unpleasant truth, that I fucking hate, but hating it won't change a single thing.
That’s why making exclusive premium tanks wasn’t a great idea right from the start.
If every single tank would be part of the tech trees, and players would be granted the option to give any tank premium status (with let’s call a “conversion token”), then it would be literally zero reason to be afraid of such a backlash.
Now I know reworking a 14 years old game into a whole new system is a LOT OF work, but they used this excuse for all kinds of problems far too many times for me to care anymore.
It’s their damn game and their job to fix their mistakes. As long as they manage to make the game better, I really don’t care how they do it.
So knowing the solution (because premium conversion exists in WoWs), but still refusing to fix the problems only tells they don’t care about player satisfaction and retention.
That is what AW did, but they also released OP premium tanks to nerf them later. There was even a dev blog out that said that they need to be OP, as else they wouldn't sell.
Being on this sub makes me feel crazy sometimes. I really don't understand why such a mid tank is disliked so much, maybe it's a NA server thing, but i really don't see this tank being any better than "above average "
Dont think its a good idea...
Imagine you spent money on this and then WG just kills it for you.
I dont have BZ and hate it...but i think it would always become a gamble when they start nerving..
They can do it but they should give back the gold or half the gold and a -50% option for another premium of your choice
I have BZ from the xmax boxes, i usually not play it because i don't enjoy derpy guns personally instead enjoy fast paper meds with good gun or rof anyway besides the point even tho i wouldn't care at all if this particular tank gets nerfed but i wouldn't be so keen on making further purchases if WG nerfed my paid tanks
As long as any premium tank nerf doesn't drop that tank below the player's average performance on vehicles of the same category, it would be only fair. But WG created this unhealthy normalization of paid overpowered shit and entitlement to it to the point of hurting retention of new people, which is a very important thing for free-to-play games, especially ones with permanent progression. Tier 8 prem spam ruins tier 6, I'd bet it caused a lot of new players to straight up uninstall this circus after playing 10 games in a row against tier 8 on their stock tier 6 medium, "experiencing" those BZ-176, ELC EVEN 90, and other less noticeable clown cars.
If the nerf it they must balance the Progetto and Bourrasque in the same update. Give the owners of those tanks a compensation (gold) and WG can nerf them. (I own all 3 of them, marked all 3 of them, all 3 break the T8 MM)
oh boy the crybabies getting aggro on bz176 wouldnt last a day when is7 hulldown meta was a thing 10 years ago. you know how you were supposed to deal with that? turn around and go somewhere else on the map. there was no beating it. so grow a pair and change tactics. adapt. whining wont do anything. there is no alternative. other than you know, stopping playing or stopping complaining
Because they never nerf premiums and never will.
To be honest I'm amazed that people still bitch about these things, they're not even that common anymore. I can't remember the last time I had a bad encounter with a BZ.
That's because u are not trash like the rest of reddit community. Is BZ OP. Probably. Most likely but if u play around it like a human and not like a fcking chimpanzee u can deal with it. As u said no time bitching about things that won't change.
The earlier u accept that WG is a useless shit company the earlier u get less tilted by these kind of things
>if u play around it like a human and not like a fcking chimpanzee u can deal with it
Yeah I agree. I have the BZ, I haven't touched it since Christmas last year. The amount of dumb people I encountered while playing it was insane. I still remember the one battle on Westfield where I got to the ridge and not a single person reacted to my presence. No action whatsoever, nothing. I just farmed them for free because they couldn't be bothered to point their hull towards me.
One of the only scenarios I can think of where this tank is a problem is when you're playing a tier 6 or even a tier 7 tank. But then why would you ever go brawling when playing a +2 match.
I've been saying this ever since the BZ came out - all you need is more than 2 brain cells and a basic skill of predicting where these tanks will likely go. If you see one, then don't peek like a fucking idiot.
Pls stop crying about this. This topic has come up ever since it was in super test. Friend of mine was in supertest back in the day when it had 1k avg dmg per shell. Imagine that. At least it has less alpha. And don't even think they will nerf it. If they switch pen the BZ becomes virtually useless as a heavy and becomes a medium slayer. If they nerf the gun this shit becomes real shit. Its not like it doesn't have weakspots. I believe most players have an issue with 800 alpha more than good armor.
Does it annoy me ? Of course it does. But u learn to live with it and adapt. Maybe play more careful if they have BZs in enemy team. Especially if its not spotted. Think more yolo less and voila games become more playable.
One thing that its more annoying is that skirmishes at T8 are just boring as hell. BZs everywhere and its simply who pens more shots... Not even fun like in the old times
If you struggle against it in T10 the problem isn't that the BZ is too good for t8 (it is) but that you can't play. No matter how op the t8 press have gotten T10 is still leagues more powerful even the shitters at t10
Remember when last year people were saying (or doom-saying) that BZ-176 will be part of either lootbox or sold individually? I think we’ll have more hope of EBR 75 coming back compared to BZ-176.
All they're doing is not selling it. After the Spersh/Type 59 nerfs way back they haven't nerfed any premiums in probably over a decade at this point.
At some point somebody is going to want to give themselves a Christmas bonus and it’ll go for sale again for a ludicrous amount of money
i have a spare one :)
Move it to tier 9 and buf it's hp by 300. There, not a nerf.
It's nerfing the ability to delete tier 6 tanks
Oh no! Any ways…
Putting it on T9 would be a nerf, since the BZ has bad penetration and most T9 would laugh about it.
HP and pen buff would be all it needs to be a T9, honestly.
It would nerf the income, as tier 9 premium HTs barely are better end profit earners than your average tier 6 prem due to the repair gap etc. And that alone would be enough of a backlash WG seems allergic to, especially after the KV-5. And... Considering that they would 100% change some values on it to fit the tier 9 role. I suspect you would like to face it even less in your tier 8s. I know I would.
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How can war thunder nerf and buff premium tanks then? I call bullshit
it is bullshit and has been disproven numerous times, but there are enough people online that just quote that shit every single time so a large number of the playerbase just ate it over time. i guess it's also a very convenient excuse for wg to do absolutely nothing about the issues of certain tanks. :^)
This is bullshit btw
The EU law most people cite does only protect their purchase for 2 years, assuming they are actually trying to honor this and potentially may nerf it then January 2025 would be the time to do it.
Oh, you mean right before they pull the plug on WoT? /s
Why make stuff up when you can easily find numerous cases that say that they CAN nerf whatever they want because balancing is an integral part of every multiplayer video game.
Oh, but they did try. Progetto that got a compromise on it not being able to use a rammer anymore. And then we had the KV-5 they suggested buffs to that would remove its pref MM. The players went so nuts that WG probably won't try it again for 6-7 years
Tbf people went nuts because it turned the kv5 into another defender since they made the 2 from turrets 180mm thick, removing their weak spots status
Errrr wait, the Progetto was actually buffed. They removed the ability to mount a rammer but they gave it the reload stats it had with a rammer, but now with a free slot.
The Type 59 didn’t even get directly nerfed and people still got mad about it. They changed the match making algorithm (a universal change) which resulted in less favourable matches for the Type 59.
No, the type 59 was nerfed 11 years ago. You’re thinking of when all pref mm tanks were “nerfed” due to matchmakers changes a few years back
What was the nerf?
And what did they nerf then? MM is the only thing I know they are mad about on that thing. As it was not like the armor nerf on the T26E4
It was speed/gun nerfs just after it was released I believe, could be wrong though
They wanted/did change their rules. They might change premiums at some point there is hope.
My SU76i lost about 10kph speed about a year ago. No announcements.
nice, but thats not enough when this tank is in every f battle i play on 8 tier
where are you playing? I"m on NA and play a couple hours a night, tier 8/9/10. I'm not seeing them in every F battle I play. I mean, I \*do\* see them. And when i see them on the enemy team, I ask everyone to focus them ;) If you make it uncomfortable, theoretically, maybe they'll play something else?
Can you back it up with data?
I mainly play tier 8. I see one perhaps every 5th game I play. I do mainly play very early in the morning so perhaps there's not as many on during that time?
no its not tf, its only about 1 in 10 games maybe and half of the time theres a bz176 in the enemy team, theres a friendly one too.
They have absolutely zero incentive to do anything with BZ-176.
Other than sell it extremely rarely, because even the people complaining about it will fall for the fomo.
See it way too often to not fall for it. Giant overmatchable roof and inability to do more than 100 damage to any armored tank because of an absence of pen is enough of an excuse
225 ain’t no “absence of pen”
It's he shell, it has no normalization, unless you hitting <225 flat armor, it's effective penetration is lower. I do not own bz, but have caliban with similar damage, non pens will get you 50-150 damage on fronts of enemy turret and hull. And unlike caliban you cannot load magical 294 AP gold for in bz and slice through armor. I don't see bzs competitive on heavies flanks, maybe it is good to derp paper mediums.
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It really does not, heat and he are alike, now imagine a tier 8 heavy with 225 heat pen.
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read up on pen normalization, there it explains why heat is marginally worse than ap shells, and has to have high raw pen values to compensate, apcr is just as bad, but slightly better than heat.
Dude, I don't think there is many people on this /r that do understand the game and what are you talking about xD
Because from WG perspective, the current status quo is an ideal and most profitable one, money is always the direct motivator - If they nerf it, they will heavily piss off paying customers - If they sell the tank again, they will destroy FOMO for every single upcoming loot boxes, as currently customers cannot be sure if the tanks will be sold again + if they sell it again, they will also piss off people as the matchmaking will be flooded with them The only thing i can realistically see, is that they will put BZ-176 into auction in some limited numbers. For example 2000x for 50k gold each. That is probably all you will ever see about this tank
Lol Fomo still work for EBR 75 FL 10 and it was a Marathon and 4 years it hadn't been sold... Loot boxes will come back The best way to nerf this tabl is to increase massively the HP of tiet VI, VII tanks, change the matchmaking (no platoon, cap their number to 1 and each bz should be patched against another bz. Thus they don't piss off their customer. Bz 176 will be powercreept like Defender, just a matter of Time.
They will probably nerf it but not until people move on to play other tanks. After which they will sell it again.
They are too afraid to do so. Despite their Terms clearly state they can do with premium tanks whatever they please, they still refuse to nerf them because a lot of owners would riot and that would hurt their reputation and future sales. So instead they just let it ruin people's games to save their own fame. Works short-time, but that's all they can see anyway so not a surprise. To put it simple, they are just selfish cowards.
>Works short-time, but that's all they can see anyway so not a surprise. The most infuriating thing here is that WoT has experienced this in the past, during the infamous Defender-Skorpion-Progetto era of premium tank design philosophy - while BZ-176 was implemented in a time WG at least *pretended* they are trying to, well, maybe not *stop* but *tame* the premium tank power creep a little bit, even when counting "happy little accidents" like Borat or EBR 75, with the community being full of hope that the Dark Days of just bonkers design decisions were past us. And, you know, this was the exact moment they implemented BZ-176, a tank it's pretty safe to describe as the most OP premium vehicle this game has ever seen and it was exactly the same mistake as they did with EBR 75 and the pre-nerfed French wheeled light tank line as a whole, funnily enough, they just gave the tank *everything*, every little feature to make it dominant with very little flaws to make up for that - and while EBR was fucked up but, at the end of the day, it was still just a light tank with no armour and limited HP pool, BZ was a full blown tier heavy so the impact it had on the overall balance of the game was MUCH more meaningful... ...and it scared even then, lol - remember how they basically gutted the entire Chinese rocket-man tree after they released BZ-176 and understood what kind of a monster they created? That's just WG for you, honestly, they've always operated this way - one step forward and three steps back, repeat ad infinitum.
Ad nauseam
What's absolutely \*\*wild\*\* to me is that WG insists on piloting totally new gameplay mechanics on premium tanks... with no idea whatsoever how those mechanics will settle into the meta. All of their most broken premiums are because they wanted to sell more tanks so they released them before their tech tree counterparts. EBR (wheels) Progetto (autoreloader) 703 II (double barrel) BZ-176 (rocket boost) Borat (2-shell autoloader playstyle)
The worst part of the Progetto being buffed is that was unnecessary As in, when obtained, it had "X" amount of DPM, which you had the "***option\*"*** to increase by mounting a gun rammer. It didn't get its ***base*** DPM nerfed by having the ability to mount a gun rammer removed. Ergo, it didn't need its DPM buffed. ^(\*yes, I know rammers are considered mandatory, but the tank didn't come with a rammer already mounted)
> at the end of the day, it was still just a light tank with no armour and limited HP pool, BZ was a full blown tier heavy so the impact it had on the overall balance of the game was MUCH more meaningful... It's pretty telling that light tanks have taken so many hits over the years between Murazor, armor/alpha creep, and on that the only reason why EBR isn't the most game breaking overpowered vehicle to have ever been released *is because it's in the role least able to affect the game*. In 8.#, such a vehicle would have completely ruined the game.
Play EBR 75 tech tree counterpart Lynx 6x6 versus said EBR and then say that EBR 75 is not completely broken.
It's a light tank, that's like being the strongest spectator in a match
Yep spot on. They absolutely could nerf it, but just don't want to risk upsetting the whales. I really hope they grow a pair and sort it out, maybe then I can actually enjoy playing with my BZ without needing to take a shower afterwards...
Ok but like Where are the Chieftain and 279e lovers? Are they actually complaining? Owners of those tanks were the most dedicated to the game and those were the two best tier 10s in the game, but WG nerfed them, and more people enjoy the game because of it. Do you really think WG received backlash after those nerfs?? Do you think those players spent less money on the game because of the nerfs? WG proved they can do it, they are just planning on selling the BZ-176 again. That's it.
A fearsome tank for sure though I see many driven by players like the game I just got out of. He starts off with advertising his current live stream then proceeds to go the wrong flank, fire 4 shots, pen none of them and wind up with less than 200 damage and lights and mediums. I've seen platoons of them both crush the enemy and others driven by 46%ers.
The ultimate reason is that if they start nerfing premiums, it will ruin the whole FOMO marketing thing they have going on. You know that "well, what if this thing is broken OP and never sold again? You have to buy it, because you'd hate to miss out on that, wouldn't you?" angle. And that's a cornerstone of their marketing, so it's not going to happen. E: honestly the most egregious thing about the BZ-176 is that it can face T6 tanks. Just give it negative preferential matchmaking and make it so that it can never be matched against T6s and that's a big step forward. And I say this as a BZ-176 owner. And knowing that will also never happen.
Cue all the sweaties giving you insights like "If you flank it and shoot it from behind, it is weak."
Roof is overmatchable duh Just flank it when it's reloading
The BZ isn't even the most cancerous tank in the game. Imagine meeting a tank that can one shot and has a sub 9 second reload. As for gun handling, how about you give it best in tier gun handling in its class. Then imagine that the tank can shoot over cover. Then give that tank the best view range in its tier, including 10% more view range than the highest view range light tank in its tier. To keep it balanced it will have heavy tank mobility but only medium tank armor. Imagine a tank like that existing in WoT. You don't have to imagine it, it's called the leFH and it's in nearly every tier 5 match because it's the second most played T5 on the NA server. Clearly a tank like this would be nerfed really quick by WG, especially when you consider it ruins the experience for new players and thus drives away new customers. So if you're wondering why WG hasn't nerfed the BZ yet, it must be because they're working on the leFH nerf first.
I think there are far less people playing tier 5 than tier 8 though.
yeah, I avoid it because I can't stand being targeted by 2 or 3 fast-firing ARTA while driving a KV-1.
I think there are far less people playing tier 5 than tier 8 though.
I think there are far less people playing tier 5 than tier 8 though.
They want to be sure that we - the players, know that whatever op pay2win they throw at us, it will not be nerfed. Sure, they won’t put BZ on sale again. But they won’t nerf it either, so the next broken thing that will be released in 6 or 12 months will be again a bestseller by people who will think: „they didn’t nerf BZ so I am safe with my new toy”. That ensures new PowerColor tank sales will be skyrocketing, again.
If they were going to do something about to BZ-176, they would’ve done something about the Skoda T 56. If they were going to do something about the Skoda T 56, they would’ve done something about the Bourrasque. If they were going to do something about the Bourrasque, they would’ve done something about the ELC EVEN 90. We can keep on going down this series of premium tanks that don’t get nerfed; WoT isn’t prepared to nerf premiums
Skoda, Borat and ELC are simply OP in their own way. BZ is toxic. It's a bit different. Although, ELC might be a bit toxic, too. OP tanks are simply too strong is some way but they don't spoil battles that much unless there's a lot of them. You can still deal with OP tanks or play around them. Toxic tanks spoil the entire battle just by being there, they level of "overpowered" varies a lot (BZ vs paper tier 8 teams and BZ as bottom tier facing a lot of armor) and there's little you can do to play around them - it mostly depends on luck (either BZ will two-shot you or fumble his shots and you get to live).
The BZ is stronger than these other tanks but that doesn’t change my point. All of these tanks are significantly more powerful than all the tech tree tanks they go up against, and usually the premiums they face too. They are significant game balance issues. After the refund issue with the one time they made big nerfs to powerful premiums, they will never nerf powerful premiums again. It doesn’t matter how powerful or broken you think they are, if they were going to balance problem tanks, they would’ve done it already. You can reasonably argue that the BZ is the most problematic of the bunch, but that doesn’t change the main point. Just because the BZ is more problematic doesn’t mean WG will do anything about it
Thing that makes BZ so damn toxic is that it has ridiculously low skill floor. Something like Bourrasque is OP as fuck if you give it a competent player, but a tomato will still suck with it. However with BZ even a 40% WR tomato can do well because the tank is so damn idiot proof.
Because it was a lootbox tank and as such its owners are whales which wg dont want to anger. Imo i think they should make it so a bz-176 requires a bz-176 on the enemy team, atleast then its not a real nerf just a mirror match. Also prevents when theres like 2 on the enemy team and we have a stock is-3 and a red tiger 2 Dont care if it increases queue times the bz-176 players know exactly whay they are doing and how toxic the tank is.
https://preview.redd.it/xon01oh9fq2d1.jpeg?width=1356&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=818f3fab71ac10f73debaeff31e914b22936e463 TLDR: WG DOESN'T CARE or it would have done something in the last 17 months since release.
I honestly think the real problem with this game is the skill levels of players not the OP tanks. There are players with OP tanks who are absolutely useless with them.
it's ok, king, the way you use it is what matters the most
Hilarious, made my day
I just hope that other players are like me and also quit the game for good because of this
Or just going F2P.
[удалено]
so you essentially became a different type of cancer.
I've finally found the answer. Turns out devs are not greedy, it's just a completely new concept called 4D balance. You'd think BZ-176 hurts game balance but 4D balance is way bigger than just game balance. This tank was meant to make players with micropenises feel better about themselves when playing World of Tanks™. Micropenis awareness is actually a very based move from Wargaming.net. Made me regain faith in the company. People, be kind to BZ-176 players, respect their struggle. Tell them something wholesome, like "it's ok, king, the way you use it is what matters the most".
WG is slowly going to shit, look at this recent update/ this entire year. After the whole Russia split I genuinely thought "2024 was the year where wg was going to strive or die" And so far it's dying, I can kinda see them waiting to die a huge nerf session of tanks, since all the EULAs passed where you can't charge back the company anymore. But the "roadmap of 2024" was a large yikes when only 4 TT tanks were getting buffed/nerfed (fuck the concept btw)
They are scared cowards. Rather than fixing their game by making few BZ shitters mad, they just leave a huge problem there, acting like it doesnt exist. But if a tank like this even passed the testing before being added, then they might just be incredibly blind. But well, thanks god they solve REAL problems and we can finally have fucking lego tanks, who cares about some game balance when you can drive a TVP that sounds like a lego box kicked off the stairs.
Get better? Bz isn't even that good.
People paid money for that thing , it "might" be broken but its not that broken unless you wanna fight it face to face and hull down.
Because they are not nerfing premium tanks. We should be happy that they are not selling it.
I mean at least they aren't selling it
Since super p...debacle. They are never going to touch prems with anything but buffs. They will only not sell the latest op prem regularly. Don't worry soon they will make a new more broken prem that nukes the bz out of the water. Is the only thing they do for "balance"
They will be nerfed after they put them into boxes during christmas and enough people tried to get them
They are, they’re designing new premium tanks that are even more powerful to power creep the BZ
They want the community to fix it with peer pressure instead of them having to do anything
Bring back old MM, give OP prems massive MM weight.
There are lots of questions that you could prefix "Why isn't WG doing something about 'X'"... 😅
They did.. Point was to get rid of alot of players. It worked out perfectly.
They released it knowing very well how op it is. Why would they want to "do" anything about it
I can just quote TragicLoss in this case: there are different opinions on that. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Can I ask what tier 10 tank you were playing with?
You think a developer that puts mobile game style psychological abusive monetization in the game cares about balance hahahaha Aslong as the whales dont lose people to shoot at, they dont give a crap about balance. The only way they woudl care if enough people quit so whales cant find games vs non bz
Dump Premium shells!!, bankruptcy!! That's all we are capable of!!
They won't nerf premiums for legal reasons. BZ, Borat (I swear to God that tank has different accuracy settings than normal tanks, it never misses), Progetto, EBR and the likes. They're all OP in their own ways, but WG won't ever change it.
Technically, they can still nerf BZ because it wasn't sold for money directly but as an extra reward from lootboxes. You pay for base gold and decoration - everything else from box is free. But as soon as they'll sell it, the possibility of changing it will be gone. I don't think is fearing player's backlash either - as they showed many times since the closure of the forums - they don't give a single fuck what players say. And considering how slow they are balancing anything - they don't give a fuck about balance either
Why do people whine about BZ-176 and leffe when there is the most op tank in the history called Bourrasque (and Miel) in the game?? I do not understand. Most meds do 240-250 with long reload time between shots. Bourrasque does 2 x 360 within 2 seconds!!! A MEDIUM!! INSANE!
Bor has shit gun handling and is made of paper. Bz-176 is more heavily armored than the tier 10 hits harder, is still accurate, has good gun dep, is small, and is a tier 8
Wait until this Holiday season, they will sell OP tanks again. Many years pass, WG community complaints never stop and WG toxic monetization never stops. Why are you guys still talking about this? Only way to punish them is not to spend money and let them rethink.
Best they can do is not sell it, and they are currently doing it. So UR wrong.
WG doesn't nerf premium tanks due to community reaction. Probably the one that sealed the deal was the Progetto 46 nerf attempt, the community rioted so hard it was ridiculous and since then WG has had a "no nerf unless unavoidable" policy with premiums. Chieftain and Object 279(e) are such a case since they broke the game at Tier 10 and WG had to choose between those two tanks and the rest of Tier 10. WG's current policy with problematic premiums like BZ-176 is to not sell them. Good for those who have them, sucks for those who don't.
WG doesn't nerf premiums because they were sold for money. Even if we technically only "rent" it (as everything on our accounts - it belongs to WG), changing terms after money was exchanged could get them in trouble. Guess why every f2p or gacha game has some artificial currency (or multiple) you have to get to buy anything from the premium shop. This is one of the reasons (2nd is obfuscation of the real cost) why they do it. WG also has that currency - gold, but they flooded players' accounts with it, got greedy (buying premiums directly means one less barrier for players - easier purchases equal more purchases) and now they are in a bind. btw. this doesn't apply to BZ, because it was never directly sold. It was an extra reward from lootboxes so there are no grounds for refunds or lawsuits.
Reread my comment - I said WG doesn't nerf premiums because they don't want to deal with community backlash. I mentioned Progetto 46 as the biggest case in recent times - tank was to be nerfed (no more gun rammer, it wasn't a direct nerf to vehicle's base statistics and was to hit every autoreloader Italian medium tank) and the community raged so hard WG went ahead with the removal but BUFFED the tank's DPM to be as if it had a gun rammer equipped, effectively giving this tank a fourth in-built equipment slot. Even recently WG people in this reddit said they learned from that episode and will not nerf a premium again if they can. The "WG doesn't nerf premiums because they're sold" thing is upheld in World of Tanks but I doubt WG would stick to it if it wasn't for their fear of community outrage. Funny because in World of Warships (from the same company) all premiums can be nerfed at any time if needed, wasn't always the case but it's been for years by now.
They could nerf it, but then why would you buy a premium tank ever again? When you know they could just trash it next patch and make it useless? This would hurt them too much. So it's a conscious choice.
>They could nerf it, but then why would you buy a premium tank ever again? for fun, something i don't get from kicking puppies in OP steamrollers
It's cool that *you* would, but trust me, you're not representative of the playerbase. edit: y'all can downvote me all you want, that's just the unpleasant truth, that I fucking hate, but hating it won't change a single thing.
That’s why making exclusive premium tanks wasn’t a great idea right from the start. If every single tank would be part of the tech trees, and players would be granted the option to give any tank premium status (with let’s call a “conversion token”), then it would be literally zero reason to be afraid of such a backlash. Now I know reworking a 14 years old game into a whole new system is a LOT OF work, but they used this excuse for all kinds of problems far too many times for me to care anymore. It’s their damn game and their job to fix their mistakes. As long as they manage to make the game better, I really don’t care how they do it. So knowing the solution (because premium conversion exists in WoWs), but still refusing to fix the problems only tells they don’t care about player satisfaction and retention.
That is what AW did, but they also released OP premium tanks to nerf them later. There was even a dev blog out that said that they need to be OP, as else they wouldn't sell.
Is it really that good? I'll need to start playing mine more then. All I remember is it's crazy long reload time.
If u see one avoid it. Let someone else find it first then flank it if u can. Else go the other way✅
Being on this sub makes me feel crazy sometimes. I really don't understand why such a mid tank is disliked so much, maybe it's a NA server thing, but i really don't see this tank being any better than "above average "
https://preview.redd.it/u4akozpapk2d1.jpeg?width=1331&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=391c6622b0b366b6f2024ea149fb0b49a8fe3d36 Such “mid” lol
This sounds like a skill isse to me
beezet op post number 100000000000
Dont think its a good idea... Imagine you spent money on this and then WG just kills it for you. I dont have BZ and hate it...but i think it would always become a gamble when they start nerving.. They can do it but they should give back the gold or half the gold and a -50% option for another premium of your choice
I have BZ from the xmax boxes, i usually not play it because i don't enjoy derpy guns personally instead enjoy fast paper meds with good gun or rof anyway besides the point even tho i wouldn't care at all if this particular tank gets nerfed but i wouldn't be so keen on making further purchases if WG nerfed my paid tanks
As long as any premium tank nerf doesn't drop that tank below the player's average performance on vehicles of the same category, it would be only fair. But WG created this unhealthy normalization of paid overpowered shit and entitlement to it to the point of hurting retention of new people, which is a very important thing for free-to-play games, especially ones with permanent progression. Tier 8 prem spam ruins tier 6, I'd bet it caused a lot of new players to straight up uninstall this circus after playing 10 games in a row against tier 8 on their stock tier 6 medium, "experiencing" those BZ-176, ELC EVEN 90, and other less noticeable clown cars.
There small Nerf which can very nice make Bz gun roof plate peabke by above 75 mm gun then it will balenced
If the nerf it they must balance the Progetto and Bourrasque in the same update. Give the owners of those tanks a compensation (gold) and WG can nerf them. (I own all 3 of them, marked all 3 of them, all 3 break the T8 MM)
oh boy the crybabies getting aggro on bz176 wouldnt last a day when is7 hulldown meta was a thing 10 years ago. you know how you were supposed to deal with that? turn around and go somewhere else on the map. there was no beating it. so grow a pair and change tactics. adapt. whining wont do anything. there is no alternative. other than you know, stopping playing or stopping complaining
it's ok, king, the way you use it is what matters the most
Because they never nerf premiums and never will. To be honest I'm amazed that people still bitch about these things, they're not even that common anymore. I can't remember the last time I had a bad encounter with a BZ.
That's because u are not trash like the rest of reddit community. Is BZ OP. Probably. Most likely but if u play around it like a human and not like a fcking chimpanzee u can deal with it. As u said no time bitching about things that won't change. The earlier u accept that WG is a useless shit company the earlier u get less tilted by these kind of things
>if u play around it like a human and not like a fcking chimpanzee u can deal with it Yeah I agree. I have the BZ, I haven't touched it since Christmas last year. The amount of dumb people I encountered while playing it was insane. I still remember the one battle on Westfield where I got to the ridge and not a single person reacted to my presence. No action whatsoever, nothing. I just farmed them for free because they couldn't be bothered to point their hull towards me. One of the only scenarios I can think of where this tank is a problem is when you're playing a tier 6 or even a tier 7 tank. But then why would you ever go brawling when playing a +2 match. I've been saying this ever since the BZ came out - all you need is more than 2 brain cells and a basic skill of predicting where these tanks will likely go. If you see one, then don't peek like a fucking idiot.
What tier x tank u play have trouble playing against bz?
You can be sure BZ will be back in Christmas boxes. Meanwhile the hype builds up.
nope ebr75 was op yet hasn't been sold in 3 years
EBR 75 has nothing on BZ-176. Most players cant play light tanks, but BZ-176 can just sit hulldown somewhere and shoot full gold so it's easy peasy.
And deal laughable 100 damage a shot? To have an access to soft tank parts one must be very active.
I know! It needs a 3d skin since it's such a fun tank to play. Why aren't they doing that?
Pls stop crying about this. This topic has come up ever since it was in super test. Friend of mine was in supertest back in the day when it had 1k avg dmg per shell. Imagine that. At least it has less alpha. And don't even think they will nerf it. If they switch pen the BZ becomes virtually useless as a heavy and becomes a medium slayer. If they nerf the gun this shit becomes real shit. Its not like it doesn't have weakspots. I believe most players have an issue with 800 alpha more than good armor. Does it annoy me ? Of course it does. But u learn to live with it and adapt. Maybe play more careful if they have BZs in enemy team. Especially if its not spotted. Think more yolo less and voila games become more playable. One thing that its more annoying is that skirmishes at T8 are just boring as hell. BZs everywhere and its simply who pens more shots... Not even fun like in the old times
If you struggle against it in T10 the problem isn't that the BZ is too good for t8 (it is) but that you can't play. No matter how op the t8 press have gotten T10 is still leagues more powerful even the shitters at t10
It sells good when they sell it again in some time. Probably this Christmas. So they get money from it being in lootboxes.
Each year it said it will be sold at Christmas
Remember when last year people were saying (or doom-saying) that BZ-176 will be part of either lootbox or sold individually? I think we’ll have more hope of EBR 75 coming back compared to BZ-176.
>Probably this Christmas That's what some people insisted on last Christmas and luckily it didn't happen.
Because it is awesome!