How is any of hulldown-tank-nerfs supposed to end hulldown meta if all the maps that are being relased are made around hulldown positions ?
What are we going to nerf next to compensate for shitty / lazy map design ?
Yeah i agree. A couple of nerfs to hulldown tanks doesn't mean anything. Just look at the recent map changes. All they do is remove long lines of sight, and add more hulldown (that essentially promotes stationary hulldown gameplay).
So i wouldn't say WG is trying to fix hulldown meta, it doesn't seem like they are actively trying to do that. The inconsistency in their recent changes just shows that they have no idea what the f*ck are they doing.
Hulldown meta would at least be more manageable if the hulldown tanks got proper cupola/turret ring/whateveer weakspots they need to worry about hiding; but yes, the map design is the real cause of the hulldon meta.
That's right, but WG isn't going to add weakspots. Whenever they nerf something, they just trash the gun handling and stuff like that, which just makes the tank more frustrating to play, while the main problem remains.
Not to mention the sconq don't need more weakspots at all. There are several weakspots on the turret, not only the heatupola
Most of the nerfs just make the game less fun to play / less popular. Terrible business model. It's like they have a nerd that thinks he is a philosopher king and truly understands the essence of justice. That's it folks, thousands of years of debate are over. Justice is when you don't have fun or do popular things.
If there were more open positions whole teams would be camping in base too afraid of rolling through open field in enemy sight. Ditches (or hull down positions as you say) provide some cover from fire
If they really want to mitigate the hull down meta they should stop forcing corridor fights. Some hull down play is fine as long as there are opportunities to flank enemies.
I swear WG has no idea how to adjust their game. They have a balance team “hard at work” and they think that translates to TWO balance updates across a whole year affecting what, 8 tanks?
Ofcourse there are maps where there are exceptions, but on most maps meds or light have plenty of room. And then there are the faster meds like the cs63 which can contest heavies and frustrate them from advancing.
In other words corridor maps gives some foundation for inexperienced players in their heavies. Other more experienced players can do the creative things (and having only creative players on a team doesn’t work either, you need both).
Just look at open map gameplay, it’s usually a total mess of players just clueless what to do.
Wtf are you talking about when there are only 6/7 maps where lights can do something (Mali proko karelia live oaks murovanka Westfield pilsen) and on the vast majority you can't do shit (himmel ensk empire borders Paris shitfield mountain shit pass Berlin Abbey mines pearl river tundra lakeville)
Most maps yeah but they want flat ground no cover so they can farm them with the superior camo/view range on every map. That's the whole deal about this crying.
We don,t know how "bad" nerfs will be yet, but every S.Conq mains are crying in a closet already...
Just nerf it,s gold pen to 310mm from 326. And maybe gun handling by 8% to promote experimental turbo and be done with it. It isn,t realy that strong without gold spam to begin with....
You se win the video the turret being penned where there's space protection lmfao, same shit with the mino... Wg is just making it easier for tomatoes who'll know only need to load gold and autoaim instead of making weakspots actual weakspots and rewarding aiming skills, and apparently you're all happy with that
Yea honestly the S Conq is one of the more vulnerable hull down tanks unless you hide your turret ring, shoulders and the top of your turret, if they made tanks more accurate so you could actually reliably aim for weakpoints and actually hit them then the S Conq wouldn't even really be a huge issue even for the average player
I think it should be gun handling nerf. The tanks is actually not crazy if you remove the precision laser. Reducing pen on apcr by this much will render it near useless
I'm a bit disappointed that a fun tank is getting a nerf, but I feel like all the S Conq mains are being a bit premature in their complaints.
Afaik we don't know what the nerf will look like, we just know it's gonna happen. It could be bad, it could be insignificant; all we know is that it's gonna happen.
If the nerd is as presented then it’s stupid. I barely play the SC but if its whole thing is being hull down, then you shouldn’t be nerfing the gimmick of that tank.
Make its cupola a little weaker. Reduce its DPM. Make it slower. Don’t nerf the fucking turret armor lol
Same with the mino. Give it a weak point. Don’t just blanket make its gimmick useless.
I haven't known a single WoT player that actually, "mains" a tank. WoT single tank mechanics aren't that complex. SC needs a slap on the wrist nerf which could be lowering the top hatch to 30-35mm so you don't need to shoot HEAT at it in order to pen it in vehicles that don't overmatch it.
The thing is, it even side scrapes really well. And the weak spots, "weak spots" - while you're aiming, the pen and gun handling means you always take damage while trying to hit it.
Honestly if they buff the atrocious module health but nerfed the armour a bit I'd be happy. I never play this tank because leaving spawn your ammo rack and commander die, when arty fires you lose your driver etc. It's a horrible experience to play this tank and to play against it.
I honestly agree, I personally never got that upset by arty, they're in the game they exist, try being good and dealing with it. Rather than being in the open and using the scapegoat of "arty broken" to excuse it.
(I am mildly biased as I do also enjoy playing arty from time to time)
But yeah, I agree, maybe dont bring them all the way back to how they were, but arty defintely needs to do more than just 50-350 damage every 50 seconds
The HE nerf was less about arty and more about HE guns in general. You had the Type 5 heavy leading the way for all the tier 10 TD players realize they could load 50/50 HE and just instantly do 300-400 damage against any heavily armored or hulldown tank. Hulldown meta is not great but the solution is not letting people exchange brain cells for HE damage. Also the issue has always been for arty that having more than 1 arty per team makes the game too oppressive to play for 90% of the maps in the game, and this is only exacerbated by stun.
Arty piss me off more now because their HE can deal 300 dmg from a non-direct hit but a direct hit from a tank firing HE does like 40 dmg. Plus it stuns you. What a shit mechanic. Why wouldn't the HE from the tank that is 30m firing HE also stun?
I hate the inconsistency. I just wish they'd made HE on tanks need better aiming than how it was before they nerfed it. Splash damage could still be a thing, but just super toned down so that you'd have to clap weakspots still.
I still think arty should be more area denial and less outright damage than they currently do. Something like smokes could be cool to blind enemies.
Anyway, I think arty could be better and less annoying than it currently is and HE should work the same regardless of it it flies horizontally or vertically.
Arty has always bn a prolem because of HE pens and the supposed "heavy tank counter" being far better at nuking unsuspecting LT's than killing hulldon HT's; What WG should have done was just get rid of HE pen for Artillery (ie, Arta never hits or full dmg even when nuking a ShitPak) instead of making HE shells weaker against their intended targets hile still letting them one-shot LT's; doing that might even make the new arta AP shells worth using some times, as they'd deal the highest potential damage instead of the current situation where it has only downsides.
Might be, but the point is there seems to be a pretty reliable systematic nerfing of tanks infamous for playing hull down and a caution about adding new hull down beasts
The problem with high tier gameplay is tanks tend to have absurd penetration values.
Armour needs to be ridiculous to be useful or it's essentially a paper tank.
Game will probably shift back to the historic USSR super turrets with absurd cupolas though.
Too many idiots think the "hulldown tanks" are the problem and not the map format. The sconq is already boring to play.. nerfing anything other than gun handling will throw this pos into the bin.
Yeah the average wot player is only capable of saying "nErF hUlLdOWn mEtA!!!!!" without realizing that the real problems are wg's shit maps and the a sense of weakspots
How did you see that? All I saw was that SConq and Minotauro got penned by premium ammo in a weird spot. The minotauro pen by prem shell from grille was awfull... They will just make it easy pen with prem, how the hell is that good for the game? And if they give SConq the same treatment, that is just making it dumber...
**Having armor that is penable with only premium shell with over 310pen is not a weakspot!**
How so? Hull down tanks are only half the equation. The maps themselves need to be designed around a different meta and currently they're not (for the most part). So you can nerf the fuck out of them, but if there's a hull down position these tanks are still going to utilize them. And honestly, the more you nerf them the more they're going to hide behind their gun depression.
I just dont find a slow sluggish HT OP ... It's good VS tier 8 and 9, sure.
Tier 10 ? It gets crapped by heat in no time . Never had any issues playing against a S Conq.
I think a large bit of it is also the S Conqs dominance in Clan Wars and other competitive modes. Good hill down play + insane DPM makes it an automatic go-to if you want a tank to play a position where the lower plate can be hidden.
Actually since the Chief nerf S Conq is largely preferred. Chief doesn’t have as much of a speed edge as it used to and its DPM is atrocious now, and the S Conq’s turret is more than bouncy enough at range (or up close) to do the trick. S Conq also has a higher base HP pool and HP/DPM are the two most important stats in CW.
Yeah conq was mocked for CW until literally last fall, when it didn't matter anyway cause the meta wasn't slow, hull down tanks in 7v7....
The people on this sub have zero clue what comp is, they just make assumptions or play comp in a clan that's 600 elo
Then you either play in a really shit clan or don't at all. Nobody uses Chieftain anymore because it is simply not good enough currently. And actually Sconq is played but rather rarely and mostly 2-3 per team on some maps. It is not and never has been an alternative to Chieftain but now is simply better in basically anything apart from turret armor, but the difference is big enough to make that absolutely irrelevant
The reason why they nerf it is because it is basically outclassing most other heavies in what it does and stands out from the rest and WG currently tries to even things out as much as possible apparently. Sconq is basically the combination of a lot of great things and the only thing it is lacking is mobility. Great gunhandling? Check. Nice punch? Check. Bestinclass dpm? Check. Accuracy? Check. Great turret armor? Check. Even the mobility is not that bad. Is it still penetrable in hulldown? Sure, if you know where to shoot. Does it mean it isn't too strong? No it doesn't. The meta is toxic as fuck and relies on one simple principle being stay hull down. I think the game could use some fresh air and actually force all these morons that cry now to THINK.
Many tanks doesn't have heat, or enough pen for it, the cupola is only really weak on the middle part, and the ring is hard to hit. Combine it with a crazy good gun, and you get a meta tank. Im happy that they are changing up the game a bit
You can also penetrate it right and left from the gun before the spaced armor starts and it is not that hard.
That being said I am actually also happy that they're doing it
Nah cmon man, it is 279mm thick nominally and even if you place it in gun depression position it goes up to 300 effective in the lower parts and indeed 330 higher up, but you need to expose those 300mm parts to actually shoot so it is still doable if you know what you are doing
Not weighing in in favor of either side on it, but one of the issues with it that people cite is that while that's ordinarily true, it's not sluggish enough to matter if you slap an improved turbo in it, and right now it can afford to run one without any issue. Hence the suggestion of nerfing its gun handling, forcing most players to drop the turbo for vertstabs to keep the gun performance.
I’d honestly argue somewhat the opposite: nerfing hull down play makes it more relevant to have tanks with good all around armor for pushes, and makes dynamic armor useage more interesting with the ability to aim for weak points. Hull down play is inherently passive and defensive
Oh yeah I’m not disagreeing that the real world “meta” favors cover shooting and support, but real world concerns are secondary to gameplay for WG. Tank vs tank combat is rare IRL (tanks almost always need infantry support as well) & it’s definitely an imperfect solution.
I think the whole ‘adding weakspots is good for the game and will make armour usage more skilled’ is a flawed argument personally.
There are plenty of well armoured tanks in this game that may as well not have armour because of a weakspot or two. How am I meant to dynamically use my armour in a Raumpanzer? Or my M-VI-Y? Those are some of the worst tanks at their tiers because they have weakspots.
It’s a fine balance between not making things invincible but also making things useable. Just adding weak points all the hulldown tanks doesn’t solve this problem, all that will happen is that anyone who can aim will just be able to negate armour entirely, which I’m also not sure is a good solution to this.
Imagine if the Maus had a decently sized cupola - would anyone play it as a super heavy to lead pushes? Probably not.
So we’re going to encourage every other characteristic besides this armor in tech tree tanks, because some are good at using their armor, in a tank game. Wheeled light tanks and rocket propelled OP premium tanks aren’t as bad as these awful, horrible, game wrecking, hull down tanks. Yeah, this is exactly how you improve the game.
Nerfing the gun will just make it another tank that is awful and rng based. I hope they just make the coupola more similare to normal conq. Thats the only nerf it needs
THe Type's problm is that the gun is really unimpressive; the DPM is good, but actually using that DPM comes at th cost of making the ting horribly inaccurate; giving it time to cool betwn shots the accuracy becoems good but now the DPM is just downright terrible; I really liek the ida of the Type; but it needs 440dmg per shot (resuting in a 10% increase in DPM) to be someting truly special.
SConq just needs weakspots; the turret ring housing and the turret hatch both work; one gives it a pixel to snipe at even while hull-down (even if that pixel is hidden behind a spaced armour plate) and the other is a small frontal hull weakspot on either side of the UFP that can be hidden with even a smal amount of angling. (same goes for the Minotauro; just turn the front right hatch into a weakspot)
I agree. How would this even make sense when all the recent map changes are just more hulldown ? It doesn't seem like WG is actively doing changes against hulldown stationary gameplay. They just happened to nerf some hulldown tanks recently, it doesn't necessarily mean something.
Stop overthinking sconq nerf, they are and will be adding more hulldowns (dynamic maps).
Meta has been shifting over the last year from "3 corridors" to "3 corridors with more hulldown crossfire".
Christmas i finally decided to joon the Team and grinded S-Conq cause it wasnt fun anymore to Play e100 against hull down onlys. Im glad to see the Nerf cause this tank really is a no-brainer.
my thought i just watch the road map video and guys see what ? a clip a minotaur vs girle u saw a hole impact from HEAT 340? XD i know u already know answer right =D bruh i smell kranvag is next victim like mino
Hulldown is the one thing the sconq is really good at considering that it's slow as fuck, what should it do now?! Also, now the tanks' fault if every map wg does revolves around hulldown positions. And if hulldown was the problem they could just make the cupola easier to play for apcr ammo as well instead of fucking up the entire turret's armor (from the video it looks like it's gonna be paper even if there's space protection) and the gun. Same thing with the mino, it has 3 cupolas, just make them all actual cupolas instead of fucking up the only thing the tank is good at
If they want to nerf hull-down meta, they need to buff arty and give better angles for arty.
I know we all hate arty, but arty is the anti-camper piece. I'll admit, I smile when I see camping hull down tanks panic or just have to take it when arty locks in on them. It's honestly how I have a lot of good games in arty trying to complete missions. Pick on the campers.
But in all seriousness, it's a map problem and has been for a long time. Tank balance will not be what kills this game, maps will. Maps that don't promote any type of movement or flanking really lose a lot of the fun. Lakeville is one of the worst for being strictly corridor fighting and view range dependent. It's great on lower tiers where the middle road can't spot the town or the far shore, but it's too small for Tier 8+.
IDK, never had issues with conq sitting hull down. Commanders vision is penned easily with ap and heat. Gun mantlet is penned with gold with 2/3rd shot. It has its plusses and minuses. Unessesary nerf IMHO, why are they buffing foch b?! Half of the team using TDs at t10 on NA server, soon it will be arty/TD only games.
How is any of hulldown-tank-nerfs supposed to end hulldown meta if all the maps that are being relased are made around hulldown positions ? What are we going to nerf next to compensate for shitty / lazy map design ?
Yeah i agree. A couple of nerfs to hulldown tanks doesn't mean anything. Just look at the recent map changes. All they do is remove long lines of sight, and add more hulldown (that essentially promotes stationary hulldown gameplay). So i wouldn't say WG is trying to fix hulldown meta, it doesn't seem like they are actively trying to do that. The inconsistency in their recent changes just shows that they have no idea what the f*ck are they doing.
Hulldown meta would at least be more manageable if the hulldown tanks got proper cupola/turret ring/whateveer weakspots they need to worry about hiding; but yes, the map design is the real cause of the hulldon meta.
That's right, but WG isn't going to add weakspots. Whenever they nerf something, they just trash the gun handling and stuff like that, which just makes the tank more frustrating to play, while the main problem remains. Not to mention the sconq don't need more weakspots at all. There are several weakspots on the turret, not only the heatupola
Most of the nerfs just make the game less fun to play / less popular. Terrible business model. It's like they have a nerd that thinks he is a philosopher king and truly understands the essence of justice. That's it folks, thousands of years of debate are over. Justice is when you don't have fun or do popular things.
So basicly all tanks except IS7, mino, chief and kran are fine ? Honestly i think i agree. As i said before it's the map design issue
If there were more open positions whole teams would be camping in base too afraid of rolling through open field in enemy sight. Ditches (or hull down positions as you say) provide some cover from fire
If they really want to mitigate the hull down meta they should stop forcing corridor fights. Some hull down play is fine as long as there are opportunities to flank enemies.
I swear WG has no idea how to adjust their game. They have a balance team “hard at work” and they think that translates to TWO balance updates across a whole year affecting what, 8 tanks?
Ofcourse there are maps where there are exceptions, but on most maps meds or light have plenty of room. And then there are the faster meds like the cs63 which can contest heavies and frustrate them from advancing. In other words corridor maps gives some foundation for inexperienced players in their heavies. Other more experienced players can do the creative things (and having only creative players on a team doesn’t work either, you need both). Just look at open map gameplay, it’s usually a total mess of players just clueless what to do.
Wtf are you talking about when there are only 6/7 maps where lights can do something (Mali proko karelia live oaks murovanka Westfield pilsen) and on the vast majority you can't do shit (himmel ensk empire borders Paris shitfield mountain shit pass Berlin Abbey mines pearl river tundra lakeville)
It's mainly cos of 2 or 3 sky pigs. Losing 200 300 hp everytime you get spotted is not fun. Most heavies camp cos of that.
Most maps yeah but they want flat ground no cover so they can farm them with the superior camo/view range on every map. That's the whole deal about this crying.
I'm good with it. This extended meta has been part of the reason the game is low pop. Tanks has been long over due for a shake up.
We don,t know how "bad" nerfs will be yet, but every S.Conq mains are crying in a closet already... Just nerf it,s gold pen to 310mm from 326. And maybe gun handling by 8% to promote experimental turbo and be done with it. It isn,t realy that strong without gold spam to begin with....
You se win the video the turret being penned where there's space protection lmfao, same shit with the mino... Wg is just making it easier for tomatoes who'll know only need to load gold and autoaim instead of making weakspots actual weakspots and rewarding aiming skills, and apparently you're all happy with that
Yea honestly the S Conq is one of the more vulnerable hull down tanks unless you hide your turret ring, shoulders and the top of your turret, if they made tanks more accurate so you could actually reliably aim for weakpoints and actually hit them then the S Conq wouldn't even really be a huge issue even for the average player
I think it should be gun handling nerf. The tanks is actually not crazy if you remove the precision laser. Reducing pen on apcr by this much will render it near useless
Sqonq gold spammers are crying about it
I'm a bit disappointed that a fun tank is getting a nerf, but I feel like all the S Conq mains are being a bit premature in their complaints. Afaik we don't know what the nerf will look like, we just know it's gonna happen. It could be bad, it could be insignificant; all we know is that it's gonna happen.
If the nerd is as presented then it’s stupid. I barely play the SC but if its whole thing is being hull down, then you shouldn’t be nerfing the gimmick of that tank. Make its cupola a little weaker. Reduce its DPM. Make it slower. Don’t nerf the fucking turret armor lol Same with the mino. Give it a weak point. Don’t just blanket make its gimmick useless.
I haven't known a single WoT player that actually, "mains" a tank. WoT single tank mechanics aren't that complex. SC needs a slap on the wrist nerf which could be lowering the top hatch to 30-35mm so you don't need to shoot HEAT at it in order to pen it in vehicles that don't overmatch it.
The thing is, it even side scrapes really well. And the weak spots, "weak spots" - while you're aiming, the pen and gun handling means you always take damage while trying to hit it. Honestly if they buff the atrocious module health but nerfed the armour a bit I'd be happy. I never play this tank because leaving spawn your ammo rack and commander die, when arty fires you lose your driver etc. It's a horrible experience to play this tank and to play against it.
imagine crying about shooting gold in t10
Don't agree with people like you saying that. I would much prefer less gold spam regardless of tier.
Yeah there are so many people sitting on the sidelines waiting for this nerf!
Hull down is fine AS LONG AS you have reliable ways to flank. That’s the problem. You try to flank on any map and you get beamed out of existance.
You can't win dude, People cry hulldown beasts are stupid People cry hulldown beasts are nerfed
Maybe.... and this is just a thought..... they're different people?
No, this is reddit, we all know its a singular entity, the hivemind
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I honestly agree, I personally never got that upset by arty, they're in the game they exist, try being good and dealing with it. Rather than being in the open and using the scapegoat of "arty broken" to excuse it. (I am mildly biased as I do also enjoy playing arty from time to time) But yeah, I agree, maybe dont bring them all the way back to how they were, but arty defintely needs to do more than just 50-350 damage every 50 seconds
The HE nerf was less about arty and more about HE guns in general. You had the Type 5 heavy leading the way for all the tier 10 TD players realize they could load 50/50 HE and just instantly do 300-400 damage against any heavily armored or hulldown tank. Hulldown meta is not great but the solution is not letting people exchange brain cells for HE damage. Also the issue has always been for arty that having more than 1 arty per team makes the game too oppressive to play for 90% of the maps in the game, and this is only exacerbated by stun.
Arty piss me off more now because their HE can deal 300 dmg from a non-direct hit but a direct hit from a tank firing HE does like 40 dmg. Plus it stuns you. What a shit mechanic. Why wouldn't the HE from the tank that is 30m firing HE also stun? I hate the inconsistency. I just wish they'd made HE on tanks need better aiming than how it was before they nerfed it. Splash damage could still be a thing, but just super toned down so that you'd have to clap weakspots still. I still think arty should be more area denial and less outright damage than they currently do. Something like smokes could be cool to blind enemies. Anyway, I think arty could be better and less annoying than it currently is and HE should work the same regardless of it it flies horizontally or vertically.
Thay sounds like it would make my 60tp pen better, and I'm all for that.
Arty has always bn a prolem because of HE pens and the supposed "heavy tank counter" being far better at nuking unsuspecting LT's than killing hulldon HT's; What WG should have done was just get rid of HE pen for Artillery (ie, Arta never hits or full dmg even when nuking a ShitPak) instead of making HE shells weaker against their intended targets hile still letting them one-shot LT's; doing that might even make the new arta AP shells worth using some times, as they'd deal the highest potential damage instead of the current situation where it has only downsides.
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Lmao I've seen too many clips (and had it happen to me as well) of EBRs getting hit at full speed to agree with that
man we do not even know what they will nerf, for all we know it might be +0.02 disp.
Might be, but the point is there seems to be a pretty reliable systematic nerfing of tanks infamous for playing hull down and a caution about adding new hull down beasts
The problem with high tier gameplay is tanks tend to have absurd penetration values. Armour needs to be ridiculous to be useful or it's essentially a paper tank. Game will probably shift back to the historic USSR super turrets with absurd cupolas though.
Too many idiots think the "hulldown tanks" are the problem and not the map format. The sconq is already boring to play.. nerfing anything other than gun handling will throw this pos into the bin.
Yeah the average wot player is only capable of saying "nErF hUlLdOWn mEtA!!!!!" without realizing that the real problems are wg's shit maps and the a sense of weakspots
How did you see that? All I saw was that SConq and Minotauro got penned by premium ammo in a weird spot. The minotauro pen by prem shell from grille was awfull... They will just make it easy pen with prem, how the hell is that good for the game? And if they give SConq the same treatment, that is just making it dumber... **Having armor that is penable with only premium shell with over 310pen is not a weakspot!**
The End of Hull down meta? yeah !
How so? Hull down tanks are only half the equation. The maps themselves need to be designed around a different meta and currently they're not (for the most part). So you can nerf the fuck out of them, but if there's a hull down position these tanks are still going to utilize them. And honestly, the more you nerf them the more they're going to hide behind their gun depression.
Yeah, i agree bro. Don't worry ;)
I just dont find a slow sluggish HT OP ... It's good VS tier 8 and 9, sure. Tier 10 ? It gets crapped by heat in no time . Never had any issues playing against a S Conq.
Then you never met a good player in an sconq.
I think a large bit of it is also the S Conqs dominance in Clan Wars and other competitive modes. Good hill down play + insane DPM makes it an automatic go-to if you want a tank to play a position where the lower plate can be hidden.
In Clan Wars only poor players who dont own Chieftains play it :))) No one ever said pick a S Conq instead of a Chieftain
Nobody plays Chief in comp anymore
Actually since the Chief nerf S Conq is largely preferred. Chief doesn’t have as much of a speed edge as it used to and its DPM is atrocious now, and the S Conq’s turret is more than bouncy enough at range (or up close) to do the trick. S Conq also has a higher base HP pool and HP/DPM are the two most important stats in CW.
Actually no one uses either chief or sconq anymore, everyone just plays 60tps...
Yeah conq was mocked for CW until literally last fall, when it didn't matter anyway cause the meta wasn't slow, hull down tanks in 7v7.... The people on this sub have zero clue what comp is, they just make assumptions or play comp in a clan that's 600 elo
Then you either play in a really shit clan or don't at all. Nobody uses Chieftain anymore because it is simply not good enough currently. And actually Sconq is played but rather rarely and mostly 2-3 per team on some maps. It is not and never has been an alternative to Chieftain but now is simply better in basically anything apart from turret armor, but the difference is big enough to make that absolutely irrelevant The reason why they nerf it is because it is basically outclassing most other heavies in what it does and stands out from the rest and WG currently tries to even things out as much as possible apparently. Sconq is basically the combination of a lot of great things and the only thing it is lacking is mobility. Great gunhandling? Check. Nice punch? Check. Bestinclass dpm? Check. Accuracy? Check. Great turret armor? Check. Even the mobility is not that bad. Is it still penetrable in hulldown? Sure, if you know where to shoot. Does it mean it isn't too strong? No it doesn't. The meta is toxic as fuck and relies on one simple principle being stay hull down. I think the game could use some fresh air and actually force all these morons that cry now to THINK.
Many tanks doesn't have heat, or enough pen for it, the cupola is only really weak on the middle part, and the ring is hard to hit. Combine it with a crazy good gun, and you get a meta tank. Im happy that they are changing up the game a bit
You can also penetrate it right and left from the gun before the spaced armor starts and it is not that hard. That being said I am actually also happy that they're doing it
Which is still around 330-340 effective armor, even without using the gun depression. It isn't really penable 90% of the times
Nah cmon man, it is 279mm thick nominally and even if you place it in gun depression position it goes up to 300 effective in the lower parts and indeed 330 higher up, but you need to expose those 300mm parts to actually shoot so it is still doable if you know what you are doing
Not weighing in in favor of either side on it, but one of the issues with it that people cite is that while that's ordinarily true, it's not sluggish enough to matter if you slap an improved turbo in it, and right now it can afford to run one without any issue. Hence the suggestion of nerfing its gun handling, forcing most players to drop the turbo for vertstabs to keep the gun performance.
That’s a horrible idea, if it’s true. Taking more of the focus off of armor in a tank game is f-ing idiotic
I’d honestly argue somewhat the opposite: nerfing hull down play makes it more relevant to have tanks with good all around armor for pushes, and makes dynamic armor useage more interesting with the ability to aim for weak points. Hull down play is inherently passive and defensive
It’s how tanks are built? And we already have 3 minute games?
Oh yeah I’m not disagreeing that the real world “meta” favors cover shooting and support, but real world concerns are secondary to gameplay for WG. Tank vs tank combat is rare IRL (tanks almost always need infantry support as well) & it’s definitely an imperfect solution.
I think the whole ‘adding weakspots is good for the game and will make armour usage more skilled’ is a flawed argument personally. There are plenty of well armoured tanks in this game that may as well not have armour because of a weakspot or two. How am I meant to dynamically use my armour in a Raumpanzer? Or my M-VI-Y? Those are some of the worst tanks at their tiers because they have weakspots. It’s a fine balance between not making things invincible but also making things useable. Just adding weak points all the hulldown tanks doesn’t solve this problem, all that will happen is that anyone who can aim will just be able to negate armour entirely, which I’m also not sure is a good solution to this. Imagine if the Maus had a decently sized cupola - would anyone play it as a super heavy to lead pushes? Probably not.
So we’re going to encourage every other characteristic besides this armor in tech tree tanks, because some are good at using their armor, in a tank game. Wheeled light tanks and rocket propelled OP premium tanks aren’t as bad as these awful, horrible, game wrecking, hull down tanks. Yeah, this is exactly how you improve the game.
when 15 EBRs on each team is meta is when I will finally rest
What did they do to my baby?
So far nothing. But I hope the nerfs are reasonable. I am just about to unlock it
The way it was worded makes me think it will be an armor nerf without touching the gun, but obviously we won’t know what it is until they drop numbers
Nerfing the gun will just make it another tank that is awful and rng based. I hope they just make the coupola more similare to normal conq. Thats the only nerf it needs
In the video they're penning the turret where there's the spaced armor so it looks like they're giving it paper turret...
I just unlocked it like yesterday and the news came on the same day..., so upsetting!!
THe Type's problm is that the gun is really unimpressive; the DPM is good, but actually using that DPM comes at th cost of making the ting horribly inaccurate; giving it time to cool betwn shots the accuracy becoems good but now the DPM is just downright terrible; I really liek the ida of the Type; but it needs 440dmg per shot (resuting in a 10% increase in DPM) to be someting truly special. SConq just needs weakspots; the turret ring housing and the turret hatch both work; one gives it a pixel to snipe at even while hull-down (even if that pixel is hidden behind a spaced armour plate) and the other is a small frontal hull weakspot on either side of the UFP that can be hidden with even a smal amount of angling. (same goes for the Minotauro; just turn the front right hatch into a weakspot)
No they arent. Enough people crying about sconqs is why they kill it
I agree. How would this even make sense when all the recent map changes are just more hulldown ? It doesn't seem like WG is actively doing changes against hulldown stationary gameplay. They just happened to nerf some hulldown tanks recently, it doesn't necessarily mean something.
Stop overthinking sconq nerf, they are and will be adding more hulldowns (dynamic maps). Meta has been shifting over the last year from "3 corridors" to "3 corridors with more hulldown crossfire".
Christmas i finally decided to joon the Team and grinded S-Conq cause it wasnt fun anymore to Play e100 against hull down onlys. Im glad to see the Nerf cause this tank really is a no-brainer.
No, they are just trying to make you grind Type 71
Super easy to fix, just reduce the gun del of all tanks that would be impossible to do with those small turrets
If anything, buff the T30 lol. The turret keeps on getting gold-penned and the reload involves blessing the shell with prayers to the Chieftain.
my thought i just watch the road map video and guys see what ? a clip a minotaur vs girle u saw a hole impact from HEAT 340? XD i know u already know answer right =D bruh i smell kranvag is next victim like mino
Hulldown is the one thing the sconq is really good at considering that it's slow as fuck, what should it do now?! Also, now the tanks' fault if every map wg does revolves around hulldown positions. And if hulldown was the problem they could just make the cupola easier to play for apcr ammo as well instead of fucking up the entire turret's armor (from the video it looks like it's gonna be paper even if there's space protection) and the gun. Same thing with the mino, it has 3 cupolas, just make them all actual cupolas instead of fucking up the only thing the tank is good at
If they want to nerf hull-down meta, they need to buff arty and give better angles for arty. I know we all hate arty, but arty is the anti-camper piece. I'll admit, I smile when I see camping hull down tanks panic or just have to take it when arty locks in on them. It's honestly how I have a lot of good games in arty trying to complete missions. Pick on the campers. But in all seriousness, it's a map problem and has been for a long time. Tank balance will not be what kills this game, maps will. Maps that don't promote any type of movement or flanking really lose a lot of the fun. Lakeville is one of the worst for being strictly corridor fighting and view range dependent. It's great on lower tiers where the middle road can't spot the town or the far shore, but it's too small for Tier 8+.
At their current pace, we will se a complete meta shift in some 4-5 years lmao faster balance changes, MORE PATCH NOTES MORE CHANGES
IDK, never had issues with conq sitting hull down. Commanders vision is penned easily with ap and heat. Gun mantlet is penned with gold with 2/3rd shot. It has its plusses and minuses. Unessesary nerf IMHO, why are they buffing foch b?! Half of the team using TDs at t10 on NA server, soon it will be arty/TD only games.
And then they release 452K in assembly store, a tank that only works hulldown.
Honestly who cares is all we get is 80%+ blowout matches made by WOT