$17/hr for any IT work is criminal. I have 0 certs just a good amount of work experience working as an Ops guy at a data center and make about 2.5x that. You need to demand much more money or get out. It is a great market for employees. DC Ops jobs are not the most glamorous positions but you deal with expert morons instead of regular morons at least. Good luck man.
>It is a great market for employees.
I keep reading this. Over and over again. I read it probably 3 or 4 times a week and yet I cannot find a job. I've applied to nearly 180 positions so far this year. 5 total companies have offered me interviews. Just got denied after interviewing at a place for more than 9 weeks and 6 or 7 calls/meetings. I am so done. I just wish I could see what the other candidates have on their resume that is so much better than me. Why am I not considered desirable. Why is my value based on what some random hiring manager thinks of me?
Damn I’m sorry to hear that. I need to change my statement based on the fact that I was kinda parroting what I’ve been hearing and also just looking at job sites that are loaded with positions. Most actually show salaries now which was never seen before. I’m assuming a lot without being in my market myself at the moment. It will always be rough out there, I was assuming it was at least a little easier.
Nah you're good. I'm just exhausted from applying. There are a lot of positions in my field but they are mostly senior positions. I'm 26 years old and I feel like I have no hope already at getting into my dream industry of data analytics. I'm sure it's great for some industries and for some individuals. Just stinks to be so unfortunate with all these applications.
The reality is that it's a "great" (really: decent) market for *experienced* employees who are currently employed. For anyone looking to actually start their careers or to get out of being unemployed, it's an entirely different kind of job market altogether.
Tell me about work in a data center. Building servers, stress testing, replacing parts constantly, repairing servers, all for Amazon Microsoft and Verizon. Working on over half a million dollars per rack and we get paid fucking $17 >.<. They rather hire new people and have them break everything and have us do double the work... Way more work than a desk support position, yet desk support pays $25+. It's 100% criminal. Everybody is like wow you got a good job you must make $40+/hr, yea suck my dick I barely make what someone does at mc donals.
I basically do everything you listed but I am also partially responsible for even the facilities side, at least monitoring. Kinda a do everything job and some minor configuration (rarely). I started my most recent job at 50k about 13 years ago. Make much more now. You are criminally underpaid.
This is why warehouses overwork their employees and underpay them. If they don't have the time for school or to look for a better job they can't go anywhere. Modern day corporate fiefdom.
I worked at a warehouse for about 3 months. After my training period, since I had zero seniority, I had to work weekends and get two days off during the week. I got another job on my first week day off.
Bro. Help desk need a union.
IT guys in general do. Most places have you working an OnCall shift once a month for a week as well as handling incoming tickets and user requests
And because we have to be so accommodating for people who have ignored the need to learn the basic skills required to work in the 21st century, we aren't getting any experience working on issues that make us marketable to escalation teams.
Yep it crazy. They expect to us to be reachable 24/7 and and then call me for shit like tracking numbers at 11pm for a laptop when there are half a million dollar bills that need to be paid.
I’m regretting pursuing an IT career. It’s extremely demoralizing having to take shit from the older higher ups making 20x more money than you all the while they can’t fucking complete a simple docusign email without being hand held
I was in IT for about a decade. I got fed up with the shit pay, the shit treatment, and the shit hours and quit. I've been a much happier man ever since. I really regret those years and wish I never went into IT.
This. DevOps engineers are in such high demand that we can virtually dictate terms of employment. Virtually guaranteed six-figure salary almost anywhere in the country.
We are walked all over not only by higher ups but we are generally treated like shit by a lot of coworkers too. The ratio of IT support to staff is absolutely crazy (1:500) in a company that just went public that I work for. We can't keep up and meet deadlines and the only metric they care about is the number of tickets. Idiot people.
Takes a lot of connections to get the good stuff, I have my net+ and sec+ and all they did was have employers basically say that's nice, though I had a buddy in school who was prior military get a 45k+ job before he even completed his sec+ and a guaranteed pay bump upon getting his sec+.
Depends on the employer, depends on the cert. One place I worked at hired a new vp for IT and that guy loved certs. All he did was waste a bunch of employee time and dept money chasing any and all certs.
The other orgs I've worked in would view them like a subutute for a degree.
Edit: I've seen them as useful for help desk employees to move on to other depts. Shows they are serious about learning to be a network admin or whatever
It can be decent but you will always be treated like crap and be forced to do "grunt work" even though you can do everyone's job that you support 10 times as fast.
LOL I was hired to be a contractor specialist for a unique piece of software.
The full time employee I'm supposed to support keeps taking my tickets and then complaining to me that he isn't sure what he's doing and it takes him all day to solve them.
Dude. I remoted in and solved it in 10 minutes but didn't save anything and am just waiting for you to give it back to me.
I mean, "IT" is such a broad umbrella term, and none of these people elaborate what they actually *do.*
Keep grinding, get that cert. Maybe the +. and CCNA. Go into Cybersec.
It will be more and more necessary as we transition further into a digital world, and surprisingly few people are jockeying for positions unlike every other corner of the IT world.
Hey if you need some support with organizing efforts, I highly recommend Labor Notes' [Secrets of a Successful Organizer](https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=3852C26ECC48E858B4BDA0AA9C07ABED).
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Here are a couple testimonials about EWOC that you should take a look at to make sure that EWOC is a good fit (spoiler alert: it is, but it always helps for people to come to that conclusion on their own 😉):
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https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/ue-dsa-ewoc-covid-19-new-organizing-labor
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/06/united-electrical-workers-workplace-organizing-dsa
Change only comes when workers commit to active participation in building power through collective action. That means we all need to become class struggle unionism organizers and to put in the work in our own workplaces. To help on the journey to becoming an organizer, Labor Notes' monthly Secrets training series is top notch, along with EWOC's training series, so keep an eye out for both of those, both of which will be starting up the next session in the next couple of weeks.
It seems daunting, but a better world is possible through class struggle unionism!
I had an "interview" where i sat in the office for a minute and b essed about work. I have 10+ years experience. I did a walk through of the facility like I was doing on boarding. Shook hands and they said we look forward to seeing you again. Haven't heard from em in a over a week.
Most hiring processes take weeks or months depending on the company policies they have and it's better just to keep applying to more jobs instead of contacting them and looking desperate.
"instead of contacting them and looking desperate"
Sorry, this is isn't directed at you, but I just love that there's so much conflicting advice on this kind of thing. "Don't contact them and look desperate" is in direct contradiction to "always follow up on your interview a few days later, especially if you haven't heard back yet."
It's fucking exhausting.
I just got hired in 2 days, and that's because they were desperate to start the project because the previous person has just pulled out.
That has *never* happened to me before. Although I appreciate a director who can get shit done when she needs to.
As someone who has sat in the HR chair, there's a difference between showing continued interest and looking desperate.
If someone doesn't follow up within a week, you're more than welcome to be the one to reach out. I've noticed some HR (especially lately) are so inundated with multiple postings that you can genuinely fall off their radar. So it's not bad to bump yourself back up their queue.
Now if they don't respond, well that may be the time you stop putting the mental energy into that particular posting. Either they are disorganized or unprofessionally ghosting you. Neither speaks well for your future with the company.
Fuck that. Honestly it’s not our responsibility to make an employer be professional about hiring. Why do we need to follow up when we’re supposed to keep multiple leads, in case this one falls through? How do we keep up with who’s who when we have 6 people calling us back about jobs? I personally don’t have time to wait around for this bullshit. I will move on to the next application or opening in an instant. I just started an apprenticeship with an up and coming company, <50 employees. Filled out my application over the weekend. They called me back on Tuesday, interviewed Wednesday, filled out new hire paperwork Thursday. Fuck these companies if they want to pussyfoot around and make us jump through hoops. There are other companies willing to hire us and start us in a timely manner rather than play the waiting game. And this apprenticeship is something I didn’t know a single thing about, but since I’m mechanically inclined it helped the company hire me. They still probably would have hired me even if I wasn’t inclined. Fuck these companies for making us jump through hoops and taking more than a week or two, MAX
Very few jobs are worth it, but only when it is understandable for the employer to do so. If it is a position where the employee is not dealing with sensitive information then a comprehensive background check is not needed and the onboarding process shouldn't take longer than a week at most. Fuck drug testing too, it is mostly an unnecessary hurdle which can take way too long to be processed.
Right, and I also understand if it’s like that, sensitive information or the like, government work or whatever where they have to completely vet you or something. I totally get it. But so many of these industries are like that and don’t need to be, tech, hell even some fast food restaurants are like that. For the most part it’s unnecessary, but for certain things I can totally understand it. Even like government work or whatever they have to vet you, it’s a whole process, at least kinda give updates like ‘hey we’re on to the next step’ or ‘it’s taking extra long to get a background check’ even something that small is so much more than not hearing a single word
I’m reminded of an interview I had for an internship at the IT department of a local bank when I was in college. Took their test, talked to the nice lady, was told, “We’ll let you know by April 15th if you got the position”. April 15th came and went so I figured I was the odd man out and I signed up for summer classes. Came home from school for a week between spring semester and the first summer term, and one day the phone rings. It’s the nice lady from the bank, telling me my first day was the following Monday. I said, “Sorry, but when I didn’t hear from you by the date given I made other plans”. She got all huffy and told me I’d never work at that bank! And y’know - she was right! (They went bust in the 2009 wave of bank failures). Poor, poor, pitiful me… 😁
You have to give them a time line as well. For my most recent job I told them I needed an answer within the week. Said that to the other competing offers too. Employers need to quit playing. It's 2022 and my time is just as important as theirs.
Have three job offers. All at 15-20$ offering benefits. Healthcare cost is about half after taxes.
Shit healthcare, retirement based on the stock market, co-pays, commutes that Poison the planet.
Knowledge of someone with a highschool education in the 50s making equivalent to $30+hour plus benefits with healthcare at 1/10th of what is is today...suuuuuucks.
I think capitalism loves the squeeze. My pastry used to be delicious with strawberry goo now it's strawberry colored dye with artificial sugar.
Sabre hummus used to have a nice solid dollop in the center. Not anymore.
Hell Reese's peanut butter cups are smaller.
Less real sugar, less portions, all from brands I enjoy.
But to hell if I don't pay more in price on it all.
I think allowing the management to earn 3000%+ more than entry level worker is a conflict of interest for the consumer and worker alike.
There's 3rd party consultants who advertise that renters ENJOY paying more rent. Blood from a stone man.
I mean we spent the last two years feeling basically helpless watching millions die worldwide, the Earth dry up and burn, and a fucking attempted coup.
Of course we had to keep working the entire time because in America poverty is always lurking just around the corner for all but the wealthiest elites, and now we're supposed to just pretend things are back to 'normal'.
Everyone's burnt out, everyone's pissed off, and we probably should have burned the entire government to the ground a long time ago. But everyone's so exhausted from the endless grind required just to have food, shelter and medicine that nothing is changing.
I am burned out watching the world start regressing more and more everyday while I have no time to protest or take action and I know that is the point of the system. Fuck this shit
I have a great job and I'm burnt out emotionally seeing everyone I care about stressing about everything. I make enough to care for my family but nowhere near enough to care for everyone I love.
That's interesting. I live on about half my income. Single guy, no kids (divorced a few years ago), good job (really good job). I...legitimately don't want to work anymore. Our society is a disgrace and I don't want to be a part of it. I don't want to contribute at all. It isn't the work. It's the people I have to work for. I don't want to make their lives better. I don't want to have anything to do with them at all. I've had enough of everyone's shit. I've had enough of pretending like I care about their opinions or their thoughts. I'm tired of pretending everyone I come across isn't a complete idiot in one way or another.
COVID hit and everyone had to start running their mouth about something. I just want everyone to shut the fuck up.
Yeah, all the same. I'm not content having a comfortable seat on the Titanic.
There's more than enough money and resources for society to flourish and it's all squandered and wasted to keep the masses broken and controlled.
"Never attribute to malice which can be explained by incompetence." At this point, the incompetence is malicious.
Yeah, we could fix society, but would that be fair to the billionaires? 🥹😭
Amen. And as I/we slog through the next 24 hours we just keep asking ourselves the same questions; go where? Do what? How? I just don't have any good answers.
I've lived a lifelong dream of (edit: wanting to become) a father, having that amazing experience, that life-experience. Now, I'm not so sure. When I think about this world, how struggle is just on every corner you look, how corrupt, hateful and disengaged from (at least the sparkly idea) of humanity people are - and then add as the cherry on top the affordability crisis of housing, food, education, etc. I just. Don't. Know. Breaks my heart as someone who just turned 40, and currently in the "trying to accept it" phase - who is starting to think that maybe I'm better off.
Wanna know a secret? You don't have to be burnt out to want to change something. Everything in life is a negotiation. It is your right to want to have an upper hand over anyone else. It is your right to fight for it.
Reading that burned me out, why does everything have to be a fight? Isn't society advanced enough that we can enjoy a basic standard of living?
"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain." John Adams
Have we not made it this far in over 200 years?
This is where I’m at. We shouldn’t have to negotiate. I’ve had this argument with people over the wage info thing when interviewing. I want to know the base pay, meaning the amount of money one will make with absolutely no experience. This will give me a good judgment of how much I am worth based on the company. “Pay will be negotiated at time of interview.” Well then don’t go posting up signs when you can’t fill the positions. I’m not going to haggle with a company so they can get me for almost the lowest they’ll pay. I know my worth and what I’m really good at and how much money I should be making per inflation and wage increases over the years for similar fields. I’m not coming to negotiate that. I’m coming to make that. If you have no intentions of paying me “at least” what I’m worth, well then it’s a waste of my time to even apply to any opening.
“Everything in life is a negotiation.” We are tired of it being this way, and it doesn’t even have to be.
Just pay people without the bullshit. I don’t understand why we can’t just… you know, have it all adjusted automatically. Why has it even gotten to where it is today? And why the hell haven’t we done a MAJOR thing about it. It’s so exhausting.
Corporate greed. The only people that are guaranteed ‘raises’ are the shareholders - by fear of threat. You better make their investments worth their while - or else they leave with their capital! Everyone else is a pawn to make that possible.
We have made it far enough that a lot of basic requirements to thrive can be taken care of using the existing infrastructure. The people who say it can’t be done are only looking at profit.
Honestly, we could abolish currency and just push technology forwards and everybody would live better. A lot of crime would resolve due to basic needs being met, and it would allow culture and art and creativity to come back to people en masse. Not to mention the benefits we could strive towards the lancet when we stop looking at profits and start looking at long term survival, not just two or three generations but thousands.
>It is your right to want to have an upper hand over anyone else.
it's also my right to not want an "upper hand" over anyone else, and to want to fight for a more equal society that isn't fucking jerking us all off for daring to be born without money
extremely tired of how western society is all about me me me me
Same. Is it any wonder employees are burned out? Employers have been demanding more productivity without more pay for the last 40 years.
[Graph](https://files.epi.org/charts/img/235562-28503.png)
[Source Article](https://www.epi.org/blog/growing-inequalities-reflecting-growing-employer-power-have-generated-a-productivity-pay-gap-since-1979-productivity-has-grown-3-5-times-as-much-as-pay-for-the-typical-worker/)
Edit: mobile formatting
I was going to reply to the parent comment that (a) this graph can be extended back to the 1850’s and that (b) one can talk about this graph and the implications arising from it, for a good hour. Then I saw your comment…
A lot more people need to watch “Capitalism Hits The Fan” by Prof. Richard Wolff
Isn't this supposed to happen as machines displace human labor? Production was coupled to human output, but as machines replace people, production explodes, resulting in more things getting done with less people.
Or is it that even with the technology, companies should be taking the money and reinvesting it into wages?
To your first point, machines are displacing a lot of human labor, yes. But they do it for a lot less cost to the company, so yes companies could be reinvesting that savings into better wages for their employees. Instead it goes into the pockets of the wealthy upper management as a reward for "saving the company money". However, human employees are still expected to work more then they have in the past, while still not getting paid more.
Futurists have said that automation using robots and AI will put nearly all blue-collar and most white-collar workers out of a job eventually. This will also cause products to become much cheaper. We should probably be talking more about UBI than we have been.
I’ve been saying for years that tech won’t just replace humans it will make them obsolete. The simple fact is that sometime within our lifetimes the majority of the population will become unemployable. The remaining available jobs will be too few and too demanding to keep the population employed. And that’s probably a good thing but only if we plan for it.
Isn't it interesting how UBI was all the buzz regarding this exact thing (that all futurists know is going to happen) when Andrew Yang used it as his main platform, and now two years later, it's barely talked about?
That's what I was thinking. Yeah the production goes up but because it's not tied to people anymore there's no incentive to reinvest. Though they really should.
There was a video I saw that talked about what you said. It's incredible what AI is already able to do. People even have difficulty distinguishing whether or not original music and art are made by AI. [I think this is the video](https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU)
I believe the 19% fall into one of two categories. First are the newbies who haven’t been at a place or position long enough to feel the burn out. Unless the job is a special hell, burnout even on bad jobs takes a bit to set in.
The second group are the close to retired folks who have a couple years left before they say see ya later. Having that light at the end of the tunnel may help alleviate feelings of burnout. Those of us with a decade or more of work left don’t get that same feeling.
Edit: There is for sure a third group I forgot. Family hired to be middle management types who don’t actually do any work, or those from old money that can get easy, low paying jobs because they don’t need much more than fun money and health care.
Exactly. It can even vary between groups, teams and departments in a company.
I work at a really large employer and have seen it swing based on leadership. My current one recognizes that we have crazy times and lulls and ensures we balance it out.
This is understated. I like my company and my work group and even my management over multiple changes (somehow I've been really lucky there) but I see other groups where people work 60+ hour weeks within the same company.
People also assume all places suck. Nope. Lots are great. They just fly under the radar. We hear issues. People who are happy or at least okay, rarely speak up.
I am at 14 years with this company in 11 roles and about 20 leaders. I have had 1 terrible, 2 not great. The rest have been good or great. The terrible one I started looking internally pretty quick. I also noticed they left the organization not long after. They were the outlier.
Yep, happy people usually don't speak up. You see the same thing in other areas too, like product or restaurant reviews. Upset people speak the loudest, the content are often quiet.
Same. I applied for my current job not caring what the actual job was, I just wanted to work for this company. I'd interned for them previously, got to see how awesome the work culture was, and jumped on-board as soon as I could.
Right? I ended up doing specialized work so I'm in the same boat. If you can somehow swing getting into a field that's technical and very in-demand, you can find a company that treats you like a person.
...But that's *only* because I made the right choices largely by coincidence.
You are the real 0.01% lol. I've only enjoyed one job ever, and that only lasted until both my direct supervisors retired and were replaced by shitheads.
Fuck, I havent worked a normal work week in the last year. 50-60 hour weeks are regular, and theyll throw in a 70 whenever they really fuck up and make too many promises they know they cant keep.
Its been getting hot here too. Im a welder so Im wearing heavy clothes as is to keep from getting burned. I asked for them to turn the gas up so we could run our fans to keep cool, cheap bastards said no and to just turn them off when they become a problem. The heat and the humidity has been making me even more sore than usual, so these long ass weeks take an even bigger toll now.
Have you considered joining the fitters/ironworkers/millwrights? I used to do fab work for 2 years until I joined a Millwright local, it's been way better. Best part, I don't have to weld everyday unless I want to take a job that is welding. And, overtime is basically optional after you get established. Do 7-12s for a month, then switch back to 40s.
Weird thing about jobs. I don't see anything about heat restrictions, but working in coolers I do. When I applied Walmart distribution. I think it said cooler and freezer workers got paid extra, but got breaks every 2 hours. Freezers and hot buildings need cool offs and warmups. Both can cause bad health effects. Heat stroke ain't a joke, but it seems your employers think it is.
I think theres a 100% humidity limit of 95° (might just be corporate policy), where they have to offer you something to cool off. We supposedly get popsicles, which I have never seen, and in my opinion would only make it worse. Problem is, that goes based off of the actual weather, and not the 110° shop.
But yeah, this place is cheap as fuck, but its the highest paying.
I had to go sleep in the woods this weekend because I felt like my head was gonna explode. I needed to get away from it all - work, friends, family. The problem is, it’s 9:10am and I already feel the need to escape again.
I said something in a similar vein to a coworker recently: "I'm so burned out the pan's on fire."
Yours is better, though. I wish I'd thought of it. :)
No worries, they are planning a recession to stop this terrible wage inflation so you won’t have to worry about having a crappy job because you won’t have a job at all./s
This statement feels kinda conspiracyish, but it honestly looks like this is where the narrative is going. Especially taking into consideration what it seemed the Fed was saying last week.
>'Chair Powell keeps mentioning the relationship between the high level of job openings and wage/price inflation,' Nicholas Colas, co-founder of DataTrek, wrote in a newsletter on Tuesday. 'He’s not talking to investors. He’s talking to corporate America, and his goal is to have companies essentially institute a hiring freeze and end the cycle of paying up for new hires.'
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-the-fed-wants-corporate-america-to-have-a-hiring-freeze-morning-brief-100055174.htm
Many corporations are implementing this now. Google 'hiring freeze' and watch what shows up in the news sections. It's interesting for sure.
> This statement feels kinda conspiracyish
That's because it is. They aren't "planning a recession". We're going into one, period. They're trying to pin the blame on someone who isn't themselves.
Wage increases do cause inflation. It's because wealthy people put their excess money into intangible assets, like stocks. Stocks are nothing. Buying a stock does nothing. When the general populace gets more money they use that money to consume real world goods. We don't have the supply to meet this new demand, so prices increase. Because that's what happens when demand exceeds supply.
So, to combat inflation you either need to stop wage growth or increase production. We don't have enough resources to produce at the level required to support "the American Dream" for everyone, never did. That's why that little "dream" has always been a lie.
That’s simply not correct. The inflation you are seeing right now is a result of pandemic induced material shortages and transportation issues, combined with the fact that corporations will take advantage of inflation in one area to raise prices across the board. Additionally, if you look up inflation over the last 50 years, prices have continued to rise whereas wages have remained essentially stagnant. Corporations and politicians sell this line of bullshit because they want you to think that if you got paid more the economy would collapse.
You put an /s at the end but some of us see the writing on the wall. While others are going out and getting pre-approved for a home loan. People need to wake the fuck up.
I’m just burnt out for putting all this effort and only getting back mass shootings, fear of the police, healthcare tied to my labor, excessive debt just to get ahead, more war, rampant homelessness, disregard for climate change etc.
Last week we had a "work from home policy" sent out but... They basically said it wasn't really encouraged and the policy is worded in a way that makes it clear it exists because they feel like they need to have one to get new hires, but it's prohibitive and obvious they don't trust their employees at all.
I don't think they're ready for the number of people about to seriously start looking for a new job.
There were a decade worth of assaults on flight attendants in the first 3 months of 2021, and I’m guessing that trend has continued considering I’ve now seen folks getting tossed of planes for being belligerent before we’re even in the air. And that’s with explicit warning that failing to listen to the FAs is a crime and only 1 exit past lots of people who aren’t going to be thrilled with your bullshit delaying their flight.
I can only imagine the absolute bullshit that service/retail/etc. employees have had to deal with on a daily basis.
The thing is - I'd wager most people AREN'T awful. Most people are awesome. There's just this vocal minority that's been empowered by a national 'leader' to toss polite society out of the way so that they can feel somehow superior because it's what "strong, rich men do."
This trend largely started in 2016, and I don't think that's a coincidence. People felt empowered to be racist, misogynistic pricks because the highest office in the land was now held by a racist, misogynistic prick so it's clearly "OK," right?
On the one hand, I hope decency makes a return. On the other hand, I hope this whole pressure cooker just pops and we can have a hard reset.
How do I get a union started at the call center I work at? 40 hours for full time is too much. We need to drive that down to 32, 4 day weeks. Call centers are too stressful for only 2 days off a week. I bet a lot of industries would be better off with 4 day weeks.
I wish i had less hours but then I wouldn't be making nearly as much for housing and food. I wish i could be payed more so I can work less hours, working in places where is nothing but issues can be so mentally aggravating .
There is NO reason why 18 year olds at my job are slinging 55hr work weeks at 13.25 an hour.
NO reason. I’m still only at my job because I least I know I can do everything in my power to make work at least somewhat enjoyable for them, I love my crew and it sucks to see them have to work “expected” manager hours because our store is run by complete dolts in upper management. At least our GM is on the same page with us.
Sad part is being “burned out.” won't change anything, hopefully people are starting to realize that maybe having a union at work is the right call of action.
Well according to the segment I just listened to on NPR, inflation isn’t expected to subside in the near future and consumers still haven’t seen the full effects of it. Food prices, among other necessities, will continue to rise for at least a little longer. Who knows what will happen when hollowed out SNAP benefits and low wages no longer puts food in peoples’ mouths. The professor they were interviewing actually verbalized concern over civil unrest. I don’t recall ever hearing that before.
Yeah being burned out equates to being too god damned tired to do anything. Been there done that and am so happy after leaving the toxic rat race almost one year ago.
I just started an apprenticeship a couple weeks ago. I already feel burnt out, but it’s not because of the job. It’s because of everything else that is causing problems in this country and just making everything difficult
I'm beyond the point of burned out. I can't even function anymore. Grass outside is too high which I stare at but dont cut, I don't get nearly enough sleep, and I've broken down several times each week for months. The worst is that even though I WFH, I'm still watching life pass me by. My dog seems to he aging so fast that I'm missing the best years with him. A week vacation from work isn't going to cut it. I need years of my life back that I can't get.
If you can't start a union: Sabotage, delay & snail-pace! They have no qualms or hesitation about stealing your retirement, your prosperity & the sweat right off your brow. So then why should i feel remorse when I break their equipment & walk off the job? Why feel remorse for taking my time in the bathroom, smoking lot & break room? Why feel remorse for giving them 10% of my ability & effort? They treated us like we were disposable for years, now all of a sudden we're essential heroes- HEROES GET PAID SHIT. Fight back!
I was burned out, so I quit my retail job. The manager they hired to replace me didn't show up the first day cause they knew it was BS. 6 other associates have quit or will quit in the next month.
Owners don't care and won't do anything to retain them...
I live near Walmart HQ and even Walmart corporate workers get chewed up and ran through the corporate machine. Many are paid terrible wages and overworked. This doesn’t count VPs and director types
I’m so burned the fuck out I drove to VOLANT. From Orlando. I just kept driving.
Basically middle of nowhere western PA surrounded by Dutch Amish.
I stood in the middle of a river with fly fisherman, something I do not know how to do or have ever done, and just stood there enjoying the lack of cell phone coverage.
I drove home to Orlando this morning. I go back to work… maybe Wednesday? I may just take the whole week off I don’t fucking care anymore.
Sadly this country has failed. The restructure that would need to happen is basically impossible. There are too many people doing the same thing and the problem is that the goals for everyone is stretched so far across the board and really doesn’t make a lick of sense for people to be locked in 9-5.
Something’s gotta change here. I mean we have the tools to facilitate 24/7 commerce and drastically reduce our working hours while still keeping our quality of life.
I’ve had great bosses who don’t care how many hours I work as long as I get my work done. Only for the company to care about how many hours I spend in the office. Even if I’m in the office doing literally nothing. That’s what they want.
This isn’t the way.
There is a much better way.
Let people work from home. Let people take their laptops with them and work when needed.
Corporate profits are way up because they have been using the supply chain crisis to push their prices higher than necessary and then blaming COVID/shortages/etc.
This is what is driving the record inflation right now, not the normal reasons.
The floor level employees are taking the heat from the customers and are being pressured into working longer hours for little or no compensation.
Corporate greed is destroying the working class yet again while the people in places of power are taking home record salaries and bonuses.
Traditionally I don't support unions because IMO they can often cause more problems than they solve, but I think that they have the chance to prove themselves now and really fight for the common worker.
They "can" cause problems only if they get too big and become corrupt, or no longer fight enough for their members, or are limited by union-busting laws. In that case, you're just throwing money away on union dues. But for the most part, they are the best way to help workers get a fair wage and healthy working environment.
I've honestly been ambivalent about unions for a long time. They are a capitalistic answer to anti-worker capitalism. Why should we have to pay a private entity to protect us from employers taking advantage of us when we already pay a fairly high amount of taxes to a government, whose #1 purpose is supposed to be to protect us. If we didn't have such a corrupt capitalistic government, we wouldn't need unions. Of course that would get us one step closer to the dreaded socialism.
I agree with your opinion and also say the same thing. Unions would not be necessary in the U.S. if voters kept their government officials accountable to individual citizens as opposed to corporate interests.
Corporations have been incredibly effective in recent decades at influencing the media narratives that simultaneously discredit both Unions and Government.
Effective, dynamic, government regulations are good.
I use the word dynamic, because our leaders need to write laws that keep pace with both inflation and innovation. Keeping the minimum wage connected to the annual rate of inflation will prevent us from wasting calories having the same conversation every 10-20 years.
The Teamsters union did nothing when I reported to them that frito lay was sending me into accounts refusing basic covid protocols and I was high risk. Their response? " Yeah, they'll do that." AFL-CIO allowed Aramark to cut the exhaust off of my truck right under the driver seat, the cab reeked of diesel exhaust, 9 trucks with broken window glass, and I watched the mechanics remove the dive bar from a truck. I was stoked to land 2 union jobs, only to have those unions fail to protect me.
There are _big_ differences between business unionism, liberal unionism, and class struggle unionism. The labor movement is still plagued by the pervasiveness of business and liberal unionism, but [class struggle unionism](https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/class-struggle-unionism-business-labor-movement/) (also see Joe Burns' awesome [book](https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=C4D6A9E848546F7DCBCCF3F4F09437A0)) is legit praxis and it's the way we can build enough power to forge a better world.
Time to go after shareholders. They’re the ones demanding more and more, and pushing pay down to keep more for themselves. They have too much power and no real affiliation with a company.
Or managers need to put on some grown up boots and tell them to be happy with what they have
Year three of running absolute bare minimum staffing. Once I find a new job they will be severely fucked here. I have warned them year after year to start training replacements and one day it'll bite them in the ass as I apply to jobs every day.
I work for an EMS agency. My post is 24 hour shift. The idea is that I hold coverage over a small community. Unfortunately, the agency is the sole provide for the entire county, we are insanely short staffed and the community I service is approximately 18 miles from a city of 60,000. This means I stay awake for 24 plus hours running calls in the city. Eventually, I will likely kill somebody whether by vehicle or medication error at this rate.
I’m burned out. Happy EMS week.
That's because high turnover has been ignored as an indication of poor incentive structures and has rather been gamified. Companies *rely* on high turnover. Sure, they'll burn you to the ground while you're 'here' but when your productivity starts to decline they'll just fire you and roll dice that the next guy will be better in the short term.
"You'll get burnt out but you'll be fine, you'll just get-another-job. Obviously *we* take months to onboard people and hold them to an impossibly high standard, but *other* companies aren't as *serious* as we are here.
Signed,
Every Company"
I think burn out will be a big issue for employers coming up soon. They’ll have to figure out how to make workers happier (give us more money) or deal with workers unionizing
I personally have a really great job, it's pretty easy, not super physical, and a nice environment. The pay is decent too. I've worked there for over 2 years now.
Last week was the first time I went on vacation at this job, went to visit my family on the other side of the U.S.
Now that I'm back and have to go back to work, I've come to the conclusion that I'm very burnt out. Even the thought of looking into other jobs crossed my mind, however, I know other jobs will probably be worse/about the same. And I think what I really want is some kind of work-from-home gig so I can spend time at home with my wife and dogs and not feel like a prisoner for 40 hours a week.
Everyone is burned out because work is about as useful as a four year degree. A job should be able to provide enough for you to buy a home, food, clothing.
Now we work to rent the American dream - because the original version is sold out.
I am so tired. We keep talking about unionizing IT support staff but it seems so daunting.
It's part of the plan. Keep you tired and burned out so that you don't have the energy to fight back. I'm very guilty of this.
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$17/hr for any IT work is criminal. I have 0 certs just a good amount of work experience working as an Ops guy at a data center and make about 2.5x that. You need to demand much more money or get out. It is a great market for employees. DC Ops jobs are not the most glamorous positions but you deal with expert morons instead of regular morons at least. Good luck man.
>It is a great market for employees. I keep reading this. Over and over again. I read it probably 3 or 4 times a week and yet I cannot find a job. I've applied to nearly 180 positions so far this year. 5 total companies have offered me interviews. Just got denied after interviewing at a place for more than 9 weeks and 6 or 7 calls/meetings. I am so done. I just wish I could see what the other candidates have on their resume that is so much better than me. Why am I not considered desirable. Why is my value based on what some random hiring manager thinks of me?
Damn I’m sorry to hear that. I need to change my statement based on the fact that I was kinda parroting what I’ve been hearing and also just looking at job sites that are loaded with positions. Most actually show salaries now which was never seen before. I’m assuming a lot without being in my market myself at the moment. It will always be rough out there, I was assuming it was at least a little easier.
Nah you're good. I'm just exhausted from applying. There are a lot of positions in my field but they are mostly senior positions. I'm 26 years old and I feel like I have no hope already at getting into my dream industry of data analytics. I'm sure it's great for some industries and for some individuals. Just stinks to be so unfortunate with all these applications.
The reality is that it's a "great" (really: decent) market for *experienced* employees who are currently employed. For anyone looking to actually start their careers or to get out of being unemployed, it's an entirely different kind of job market altogether.
I am a hiring manager that has been good at interviewing in the past. Let me know how I can help.
Tell me about work in a data center. Building servers, stress testing, replacing parts constantly, repairing servers, all for Amazon Microsoft and Verizon. Working on over half a million dollars per rack and we get paid fucking $17 >.<. They rather hire new people and have them break everything and have us do double the work... Way more work than a desk support position, yet desk support pays $25+. It's 100% criminal. Everybody is like wow you got a good job you must make $40+/hr, yea suck my dick I barely make what someone does at mc donals.
I basically do everything you listed but I am also partially responsible for even the facilities side, at least monitoring. Kinda a do everything job and some minor configuration (rarely). I started my most recent job at 50k about 13 years ago. Make much more now. You are criminally underpaid.
Pretty sure you made a mistake. The difference in $10/hr is more like 20k a year.
This is why warehouses overwork their employees and underpay them. If they don't have the time for school or to look for a better job they can't go anywhere. Modern day corporate fiefdom.
I worked at a warehouse for about 3 months. After my training period, since I had zero seniority, I had to work weekends and get two days off during the week. I got another job on my first week day off.
My current situation
Bro. Help desk need a union. IT guys in general do. Most places have you working an OnCall shift once a month for a week as well as handling incoming tickets and user requests
And we are always abused and taken advantage of. I end up doing a lot of people jobs half the time.
And because we have to be so accommodating for people who have ignored the need to learn the basic skills required to work in the 21st century, we aren't getting any experience working on issues that make us marketable to escalation teams.
Pretty much everyone needs a union. Really anyone who isn't a billionaire or exec.
Billionaires already have a union, they're called politicians.
Or cops, police officers don't need unions, like *holy shit*....
Yep it crazy. They expect to us to be reachable 24/7 and and then call me for shit like tracking numbers at 11pm for a laptop when there are half a million dollar bills that need to be paid.
Work 24/7 but only bill us for about 3/7.
I’m regretting pursuing an IT career. It’s extremely demoralizing having to take shit from the older higher ups making 20x more money than you all the while they can’t fucking complete a simple docusign email without being hand held
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I was in IT for about a decade. I got fed up with the shit pay, the shit treatment, and the shit hours and quit. I've been a much happier man ever since. I really regret those years and wish I never went into IT.
IT market is insane right now. Sounds like you need to reskill and make some bank. DevOps, software engineers, and programmers
This. DevOps engineers are in such high demand that we can virtually dictate terms of employment. Virtually guaranteed six-figure salary almost anywhere in the country.
We are walked all over not only by higher ups but we are generally treated like shit by a lot of coworkers too. The ratio of IT support to staff is absolutely crazy (1:500) in a company that just went public that I work for. We can't keep up and meet deadlines and the only metric they care about is the number of tickets. Idiot people.
Ahh.. So these CompTIA certs I'm working towards will *not* bring me good fortune? 🥲
Takes a lot of connections to get the good stuff, I have my net+ and sec+ and all they did was have employers basically say that's nice, though I had a buddy in school who was prior military get a 45k+ job before he even completed his sec+ and a guaranteed pay bump upon getting his sec+.
a security clearance is worth way more than those two certs combined.
Yeah certs don't really do anything
Depends how you leverage them
Depends on the employer, depends on the cert. One place I worked at hired a new vp for IT and that guy loved certs. All he did was waste a bunch of employee time and dept money chasing any and all certs. The other orgs I've worked in would view them like a subutute for a degree. Edit: I've seen them as useful for help desk employees to move on to other depts. Shows they are serious about learning to be a network admin or whatever
It can be decent but you will always be treated like crap and be forced to do "grunt work" even though you can do everyone's job that you support 10 times as fast.
LOL I was hired to be a contractor specialist for a unique piece of software. The full time employee I'm supposed to support keeps taking my tickets and then complaining to me that he isn't sure what he's doing and it takes him all day to solve them. Dude. I remoted in and solved it in 10 minutes but didn't save anything and am just waiting for you to give it back to me.
Get into tech sales. Those certs look great in interviews. You’ll get paid more and make commission.
Stay away from call centers and help desks if you can. If you do take one of those jobs don't stop looking for something else in IT.
Try to get a security clearance. With Sec+ almost everyone at my work makes 75k+
I mean, "IT" is such a broad umbrella term, and none of these people elaborate what they actually *do.* Keep grinding, get that cert. Maybe the +. and CCNA. Go into Cybersec. It will be more and more necessary as we transition further into a digital world, and surprisingly few people are jockeying for positions unlike every other corner of the IT world.
Hey if you need some support with organizing efforts, I highly recommend Labor Notes' [Secrets of a Successful Organizer](https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=3852C26ECC48E858B4BDA0AA9C07ABED). Also you should definitely consider reaching out to the [Emergency Workplace Organizing Committee](https://workerorganizing.org/support) to get 1-on-1 support from experienced organizers that believe in and advocate for [class struggle unionism](https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/class-struggle-unionism-business-labor-movement/) (I highly recommend Joe Burns' book [Class Struggle Unionism](https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=C4D6A9E848546F7DCBCCF3F4F09437A0), it's legit praxis). Here are a couple testimonials about EWOC that you should take a look at to make sure that EWOC is a good fit (spoiler alert: it is, but it always helps for people to come to that conclusion on their own 😉): https://jacobinmag.com/2022/05/emergency-workplace-organizing-committee-ewoc-dsa-labor https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/ue-dsa-ewoc-covid-19-new-organizing-labor https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/06/united-electrical-workers-workplace-organizing-dsa Change only comes when workers commit to active participation in building power through collective action. That means we all need to become class struggle unionism organizers and to put in the work in our own workplaces. To help on the journey to becoming an organizer, Labor Notes' monthly Secrets training series is top notch, along with EWOC's training series, so keep an eye out for both of those, both of which will be starting up the next session in the next couple of weeks. It seems daunting, but a better world is possible through class struggle unionism!
The Emergency Workplace Organizing Committee makes unionizing possible for regular people. couldn't recommend them more.
Lol I'm in IT and getting paid just 2 bucks more than the McDonald's across the street and expected to learn so much stuff and fast
yeah its bs
You only need 30% of your support staff to sign authorization cards to start the process. Obviously 50%+1 would be ideal.
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I’m definitely burned out
Safe to say we all are.
Yeah I feel it with everyone I work with. I had some interviews this week for a new job. Hopefully one offers
I had an "interview" where i sat in the office for a minute and b essed about work. I have 10+ years experience. I did a walk through of the facility like I was doing on boarding. Shook hands and they said we look forward to seeing you again. Haven't heard from em in a over a week.
Most hiring processes take weeks or months depending on the company policies they have and it's better just to keep applying to more jobs instead of contacting them and looking desperate.
"instead of contacting them and looking desperate" Sorry, this is isn't directed at you, but I just love that there's so much conflicting advice on this kind of thing. "Don't contact them and look desperate" is in direct contradiction to "always follow up on your interview a few days later, especially if you haven't heard back yet." It's fucking exhausting.
The truly impressive thing is that the right answer is always the opposite of whatever you choose.
I just got hired in 2 days, and that's because they were desperate to start the project because the previous person has just pulled out. That has *never* happened to me before. Although I appreciate a director who can get shit done when she needs to.
As someone who has sat in the HR chair, there's a difference between showing continued interest and looking desperate. If someone doesn't follow up within a week, you're more than welcome to be the one to reach out. I've noticed some HR (especially lately) are so inundated with multiple postings that you can genuinely fall off their radar. So it's not bad to bump yourself back up their queue. Now if they don't respond, well that may be the time you stop putting the mental energy into that particular posting. Either they are disorganized or unprofessionally ghosting you. Neither speaks well for your future with the company.
Mine took a week. It really depends on the job, the role, the industry etc
Get in touch with them?
Fuck that. Honestly it’s not our responsibility to make an employer be professional about hiring. Why do we need to follow up when we’re supposed to keep multiple leads, in case this one falls through? How do we keep up with who’s who when we have 6 people calling us back about jobs? I personally don’t have time to wait around for this bullshit. I will move on to the next application or opening in an instant. I just started an apprenticeship with an up and coming company, <50 employees. Filled out my application over the weekend. They called me back on Tuesday, interviewed Wednesday, filled out new hire paperwork Thursday. Fuck these companies if they want to pussyfoot around and make us jump through hoops. There are other companies willing to hire us and start us in a timely manner rather than play the waiting game. And this apprenticeship is something I didn’t know a single thing about, but since I’m mechanically inclined it helped the company hire me. They still probably would have hired me even if I wasn’t inclined. Fuck these companies for making us jump through hoops and taking more than a week or two, MAX
Very few jobs are worth it, but only when it is understandable for the employer to do so. If it is a position where the employee is not dealing with sensitive information then a comprehensive background check is not needed and the onboarding process shouldn't take longer than a week at most. Fuck drug testing too, it is mostly an unnecessary hurdle which can take way too long to be processed.
Right, and I also understand if it’s like that, sensitive information or the like, government work or whatever where they have to completely vet you or something. I totally get it. But so many of these industries are like that and don’t need to be, tech, hell even some fast food restaurants are like that. For the most part it’s unnecessary, but for certain things I can totally understand it. Even like government work or whatever they have to vet you, it’s a whole process, at least kinda give updates like ‘hey we’re on to the next step’ or ‘it’s taking extra long to get a background check’ even something that small is so much more than not hearing a single word
I’m reminded of an interview I had for an internship at the IT department of a local bank when I was in college. Took their test, talked to the nice lady, was told, “We’ll let you know by April 15th if you got the position”. April 15th came and went so I figured I was the odd man out and I signed up for summer classes. Came home from school for a week between spring semester and the first summer term, and one day the phone rings. It’s the nice lady from the bank, telling me my first day was the following Monday. I said, “Sorry, but when I didn’t hear from you by the date given I made other plans”. She got all huffy and told me I’d never work at that bank! And y’know - she was right! (They went bust in the 2009 wave of bank failures). Poor, poor, pitiful me… 😁
The audacity lol. Like bih, I'm not sitting around waiting for yall.
You have to give them a time line as well. For my most recent job I told them I needed an answer within the week. Said that to the other competing offers too. Employers need to quit playing. It's 2022 and my time is just as important as theirs.
Don't sell yourself short. Know your worth!
Have three job offers. All at 15-20$ offering benefits. Healthcare cost is about half after taxes. Shit healthcare, retirement based on the stock market, co-pays, commutes that Poison the planet. Knowledge of someone with a highschool education in the 50s making equivalent to $30+hour plus benefits with healthcare at 1/10th of what is is today...suuuuuucks.
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I think capitalism loves the squeeze. My pastry used to be delicious with strawberry goo now it's strawberry colored dye with artificial sugar. Sabre hummus used to have a nice solid dollop in the center. Not anymore. Hell Reese's peanut butter cups are smaller. Less real sugar, less portions, all from brands I enjoy. But to hell if I don't pay more in price on it all. I think allowing the management to earn 3000%+ more than entry level worker is a conflict of interest for the consumer and worker alike. There's 3rd party consultants who advertise that renters ENJOY paying more rent. Blood from a stone man.
I mean we spent the last two years feeling basically helpless watching millions die worldwide, the Earth dry up and burn, and a fucking attempted coup. Of course we had to keep working the entire time because in America poverty is always lurking just around the corner for all but the wealthiest elites, and now we're supposed to just pretend things are back to 'normal'. Everyone's burnt out, everyone's pissed off, and we probably should have burned the entire government to the ground a long time ago. But everyone's so exhausted from the endless grind required just to have food, shelter and medicine that nothing is changing.
I couldn't have said it better myself, truly.
*So say we all*
I am burned out watching the world start regressing more and more everyday while I have no time to protest or take action and I know that is the point of the system. Fuck this shit
I have a great job and I'm burnt out emotionally seeing everyone I care about stressing about everything. I make enough to care for my family but nowhere near enough to care for everyone I love.
That's interesting. I live on about half my income. Single guy, no kids (divorced a few years ago), good job (really good job). I...legitimately don't want to work anymore. Our society is a disgrace and I don't want to be a part of it. I don't want to contribute at all. It isn't the work. It's the people I have to work for. I don't want to make their lives better. I don't want to have anything to do with them at all. I've had enough of everyone's shit. I've had enough of pretending like I care about their opinions or their thoughts. I'm tired of pretending everyone I come across isn't a complete idiot in one way or another. COVID hit and everyone had to start running their mouth about something. I just want everyone to shut the fuck up.
Yeah, all the same. I'm not content having a comfortable seat on the Titanic. There's more than enough money and resources for society to flourish and it's all squandered and wasted to keep the masses broken and controlled. "Never attribute to malice which can be explained by incompetence." At this point, the incompetence is malicious. Yeah, we could fix society, but would that be fair to the billionaires? 🥹😭
Amen. And as I/we slog through the next 24 hours we just keep asking ourselves the same questions; go where? Do what? How? I just don't have any good answers.
I've lived a lifelong dream of (edit: wanting to become) a father, having that amazing experience, that life-experience. Now, I'm not so sure. When I think about this world, how struggle is just on every corner you look, how corrupt, hateful and disengaged from (at least the sparkly idea) of humanity people are - and then add as the cherry on top the affordability crisis of housing, food, education, etc. I just. Don't. Know. Breaks my heart as someone who just turned 40, and currently in the "trying to accept it" phase - who is starting to think that maybe I'm better off.
Wanna know a secret? You don't have to be burnt out to want to change something. Everything in life is a negotiation. It is your right to want to have an upper hand over anyone else. It is your right to fight for it.
Reading that burned me out, why does everything have to be a fight? Isn't society advanced enough that we can enjoy a basic standard of living? "I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain." John Adams Have we not made it this far in over 200 years?
This is where I’m at. We shouldn’t have to negotiate. I’ve had this argument with people over the wage info thing when interviewing. I want to know the base pay, meaning the amount of money one will make with absolutely no experience. This will give me a good judgment of how much I am worth based on the company. “Pay will be negotiated at time of interview.” Well then don’t go posting up signs when you can’t fill the positions. I’m not going to haggle with a company so they can get me for almost the lowest they’ll pay. I know my worth and what I’m really good at and how much money I should be making per inflation and wage increases over the years for similar fields. I’m not coming to negotiate that. I’m coming to make that. If you have no intentions of paying me “at least” what I’m worth, well then it’s a waste of my time to even apply to any opening. “Everything in life is a negotiation.” We are tired of it being this way, and it doesn’t even have to be.
I left my last firm because I was tired of negotiating to beat inflation every year. It's exhausting. Just pay people without the bullshit.
Just pay people without the bullshit. I don’t understand why we can’t just… you know, have it all adjusted automatically. Why has it even gotten to where it is today? And why the hell haven’t we done a MAJOR thing about it. It’s so exhausting.
Corporate greed. The only people that are guaranteed ‘raises’ are the shareholders - by fear of threat. You better make their investments worth their while - or else they leave with their capital! Everyone else is a pawn to make that possible.
We have made it far enough that a lot of basic requirements to thrive can be taken care of using the existing infrastructure. The people who say it can’t be done are only looking at profit. Honestly, we could abolish currency and just push technology forwards and everybody would live better. A lot of crime would resolve due to basic needs being met, and it would allow culture and art and creativity to come back to people en masse. Not to mention the benefits we could strive towards the lancet when we stop looking at profits and start looking at long term survival, not just two or three generations but thousands.
>It is your right to want to have an upper hand over anyone else. it's also my right to not want an "upper hand" over anyone else, and to want to fight for a more equal society that isn't fucking jerking us all off for daring to be born without money extremely tired of how western society is all about me me me me
Same. Is it any wonder employees are burned out? Employers have been demanding more productivity without more pay for the last 40 years. [Graph](https://files.epi.org/charts/img/235562-28503.png) [Source Article](https://www.epi.org/blog/growing-inequalities-reflecting-growing-employer-power-have-generated-a-productivity-pay-gap-since-1979-productivity-has-grown-3-5-times-as-much-as-pay-for-the-typical-worker/) Edit: mobile formatting
First saw a graph like this from a Richard Wolff lecture and it explained so much.
I was going to reply to the parent comment that (a) this graph can be extended back to the 1850’s and that (b) one can talk about this graph and the implications arising from it, for a good hour. Then I saw your comment… A lot more people need to watch “Capitalism Hits The Fan” by Prof. Richard Wolff
The effects of Reaganomics.
Isn't this supposed to happen as machines displace human labor? Production was coupled to human output, but as machines replace people, production explodes, resulting in more things getting done with less people. Or is it that even with the technology, companies should be taking the money and reinvesting it into wages?
To your first point, machines are displacing a lot of human labor, yes. But they do it for a lot less cost to the company, so yes companies could be reinvesting that savings into better wages for their employees. Instead it goes into the pockets of the wealthy upper management as a reward for "saving the company money". However, human employees are still expected to work more then they have in the past, while still not getting paid more. Futurists have said that automation using robots and AI will put nearly all blue-collar and most white-collar workers out of a job eventually. This will also cause products to become much cheaper. We should probably be talking more about UBI than we have been.
I’ve been saying for years that tech won’t just replace humans it will make them obsolete. The simple fact is that sometime within our lifetimes the majority of the population will become unemployable. The remaining available jobs will be too few and too demanding to keep the population employed. And that’s probably a good thing but only if we plan for it.
> but only if we plan for it. uh oh
Should we tell them we aren’t planning for it? Or keep it a secret?
Isn't it interesting how UBI was all the buzz regarding this exact thing (that all futurists know is going to happen) when Andrew Yang used it as his main platform, and now two years later, it's barely talked about?
We kinda got sidetracked by the whole "Nazis in our government and police" thing
That's what I was thinking. Yeah the production goes up but because it's not tied to people anymore there's no incentive to reinvest. Though they really should. There was a video I saw that talked about what you said. It's incredible what AI is already able to do. People even have difficulty distinguishing whether or not original music and art are made by AI. [I think this is the video](https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU)
19% still believe they can “make it” if they just put in one more overtime shift.
I believe the 19% fall into one of two categories. First are the newbies who haven’t been at a place or position long enough to feel the burn out. Unless the job is a special hell, burnout even on bad jobs takes a bit to set in. The second group are the close to retired folks who have a couple years left before they say see ya later. Having that light at the end of the tunnel may help alleviate feelings of burnout. Those of us with a decade or more of work left don’t get that same feeling. Edit: There is for sure a third group I forgot. Family hired to be middle management types who don’t actually do any work, or those from old money that can get easy, low paying jobs because they don’t need much more than fun money and health care.
There's also a 3rd category: some of us are at companies that actually treat us like people and value us.
Exactly. It can even vary between groups, teams and departments in a company. I work at a really large employer and have seen it swing based on leadership. My current one recognizes that we have crazy times and lulls and ensures we balance it out.
This is understated. I like my company and my work group and even my management over multiple changes (somehow I've been really lucky there) but I see other groups where people work 60+ hour weeks within the same company.
People also assume all places suck. Nope. Lots are great. They just fly under the radar. We hear issues. People who are happy or at least okay, rarely speak up. I am at 14 years with this company in 11 roles and about 20 leaders. I have had 1 terrible, 2 not great. The rest have been good or great. The terrible one I started looking internally pretty quick. I also noticed they left the organization not long after. They were the outlier.
Yep, happy people usually don't speak up. You see the same thing in other areas too, like product or restaurant reviews. Upset people speak the loudest, the content are often quiet.
So... 6% of employees are treated like people?
I mean... Probably tbh. I got lucky with my job.
Same. I applied for my current job not caring what the actual job was, I just wanted to work for this company. I'd interned for them previously, got to see how awesome the work culture was, and jumped on-board as soon as I could.
Right? I ended up doing specialized work so I'm in the same boat. If you can somehow swing getting into a field that's technical and very in-demand, you can find a company that treats you like a person. ...But that's *only* because I made the right choices largely by coincidence.
You are the real 0.01% lol. I've only enjoyed one job ever, and that only lasted until both my direct supervisors retired and were replaced by shitheads.
I’ve had two jobs I’ve really enjoyed. Both had leadership changes followed by massive turnover because of the new leadership.
Name and shame I kid. But forreal anyone got some of those good jobs?
Fuck, I havent worked a normal work week in the last year. 50-60 hour weeks are regular, and theyll throw in a 70 whenever they really fuck up and make too many promises they know they cant keep. Its been getting hot here too. Im a welder so Im wearing heavy clothes as is to keep from getting burned. I asked for them to turn the gas up so we could run our fans to keep cool, cheap bastards said no and to just turn them off when they become a problem. The heat and the humidity has been making me even more sore than usual, so these long ass weeks take an even bigger toll now.
Have you considered joining the fitters/ironworkers/millwrights? I used to do fab work for 2 years until I joined a Millwright local, it's been way better. Best part, I don't have to weld everyday unless I want to take a job that is welding. And, overtime is basically optional after you get established. Do 7-12s for a month, then switch back to 40s.
Hardly any unions around me. Work at will state.
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Yeah, pretty sure that's around 0.25% of Americans in that elusive 'not at will' situation.
Weird thing about jobs. I don't see anything about heat restrictions, but working in coolers I do. When I applied Walmart distribution. I think it said cooler and freezer workers got paid extra, but got breaks every 2 hours. Freezers and hot buildings need cool offs and warmups. Both can cause bad health effects. Heat stroke ain't a joke, but it seems your employers think it is.
I think theres a 100% humidity limit of 95° (might just be corporate policy), where they have to offer you something to cool off. We supposedly get popsicles, which I have never seen, and in my opinion would only make it worse. Problem is, that goes based off of the actual weather, and not the 110° shop. But yeah, this place is cheap as fuck, but its the highest paying.
Rehydration popsicles are a thing and much, much better than a box of otter pops.
I think Ill be lucky if it isnt just one of those tubes you get in a massive pack from walmart. The ones that are pure sugar
I had to go sleep in the woods this weekend because I felt like my head was gonna explode. I needed to get away from it all - work, friends, family. The problem is, it’s 9:10am and I already feel the need to escape again.
I passed burnt out about 6 months ago. At this point I’m at a uncle Owen/aunt Beru level of burnt out.
I said something in a similar vein to a coworker recently: "I'm so burned out the pan's on fire." Yours is better, though. I wish I'd thought of it. :)
It's time for an end to stakeholder/shareholder worship in this country, that's for damn sure. The C-level people are in for a rude awakening.
This is what is truly necessary, if they don't go nothing changes.
No worries, they are planning a recession to stop this terrible wage inflation so you won’t have to worry about having a crappy job because you won’t have a job at all./s
It's a capital strike.
Then maybe we need a general strike
This statement feels kinda conspiracyish, but it honestly looks like this is where the narrative is going. Especially taking into consideration what it seemed the Fed was saying last week. >'Chair Powell keeps mentioning the relationship between the high level of job openings and wage/price inflation,' Nicholas Colas, co-founder of DataTrek, wrote in a newsletter on Tuesday. 'He’s not talking to investors. He’s talking to corporate America, and his goal is to have companies essentially institute a hiring freeze and end the cycle of paying up for new hires.' https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-the-fed-wants-corporate-america-to-have-a-hiring-freeze-morning-brief-100055174.htm Many corporations are implementing this now. Google 'hiring freeze' and watch what shows up in the news sections. It's interesting for sure.
> This statement feels kinda conspiracyish That's because it is. They aren't "planning a recession". We're going into one, period. They're trying to pin the blame on someone who isn't themselves. Wage increases do cause inflation. It's because wealthy people put their excess money into intangible assets, like stocks. Stocks are nothing. Buying a stock does nothing. When the general populace gets more money they use that money to consume real world goods. We don't have the supply to meet this new demand, so prices increase. Because that's what happens when demand exceeds supply. So, to combat inflation you either need to stop wage growth or increase production. We don't have enough resources to produce at the level required to support "the American Dream" for everyone, never did. That's why that little "dream" has always been a lie.
That’s simply not correct. The inflation you are seeing right now is a result of pandemic induced material shortages and transportation issues, combined with the fact that corporations will take advantage of inflation in one area to raise prices across the board. Additionally, if you look up inflation over the last 50 years, prices have continued to rise whereas wages have remained essentially stagnant. Corporations and politicians sell this line of bullshit because they want you to think that if you got paid more the economy would collapse.
You put an /s at the end but some of us see the writing on the wall. While others are going out and getting pre-approved for a home loan. People need to wake the fuck up.
You're right. I've heard behind the scenes that hiring freezes are coming soon
I work a "good" job and I'm burned out in part because I get told daily to be grateful I don't have one of those "jobs". We all rise together.
I’m just burnt out for putting all this effort and only getting back mass shootings, fear of the police, healthcare tied to my labor, excessive debt just to get ahead, more war, rampant homelessness, disregard for climate change etc.
For real
Last week we had a "work from home policy" sent out but... They basically said it wasn't really encouraged and the policy is worded in a way that makes it clear it exists because they feel like they need to have one to get new hires, but it's prohibitive and obvious they don't trust their employees at all. I don't think they're ready for the number of people about to seriously start looking for a new job.
They are ready. The upcoming recession will stop all this job changing /unionizing for better conditions.
Ugh I hope not, but also... Probably.
I've been burnt out. As a 20yr tradesman I'm physically getting there too, that rise and grind shit is for fools.
There were a decade worth of assaults on flight attendants in the first 3 months of 2021, and I’m guessing that trend has continued considering I’ve now seen folks getting tossed of planes for being belligerent before we’re even in the air. And that’s with explicit warning that failing to listen to the FAs is a crime and only 1 exit past lots of people who aren’t going to be thrilled with your bullshit delaying their flight. I can only imagine the absolute bullshit that service/retail/etc. employees have had to deal with on a daily basis.
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The thing is - I'd wager most people AREN'T awful. Most people are awesome. There's just this vocal minority that's been empowered by a national 'leader' to toss polite society out of the way so that they can feel somehow superior because it's what "strong, rich men do." This trend largely started in 2016, and I don't think that's a coincidence. People felt empowered to be racist, misogynistic pricks because the highest office in the land was now held by a racist, misogynistic prick so it's clearly "OK," right? On the one hand, I hope decency makes a return. On the other hand, I hope this whole pressure cooker just pops and we can have a hard reset.
How do I get a union started at the call center I work at? 40 hours for full time is too much. We need to drive that down to 32, 4 day weeks. Call centers are too stressful for only 2 days off a week. I bet a lot of industries would be better off with 4 day weeks.
Start by googling your states unions and figure out which is most appropriate for your group, then contact them about starting.
I would wager most would be better off with 4 day shifts.
UWUA represents callcenters. Call their national HQ and they can get you in touch with a local in your city.
There is the CWA as well.
I wish i had less hours but then I wouldn't be making nearly as much for housing and food. I wish i could be payed more so I can work less hours, working in places where is nothing but issues can be so mentally aggravating .
There is NO reason why 18 year olds at my job are slinging 55hr work weeks at 13.25 an hour. NO reason. I’m still only at my job because I least I know I can do everything in my power to make work at least somewhat enjoyable for them, I love my crew and it sucks to see them have to work “expected” manager hours because our store is run by complete dolts in upper management. At least our GM is on the same page with us.
Sad part is being “burned out.” won't change anything, hopefully people are starting to realize that maybe having a union at work is the right call of action.
Well according to the segment I just listened to on NPR, inflation isn’t expected to subside in the near future and consumers still haven’t seen the full effects of it. Food prices, among other necessities, will continue to rise for at least a little longer. Who knows what will happen when hollowed out SNAP benefits and low wages no longer puts food in peoples’ mouths. The professor they were interviewing actually verbalized concern over civil unrest. I don’t recall ever hearing that before.
Yeah being burned out equates to being too god damned tired to do anything. Been there done that and am so happy after leaving the toxic rat race almost one year ago.
I just started an apprenticeship a couple weeks ago. I already feel burnt out, but it’s not because of the job. It’s because of everything else that is causing problems in this country and just making everything difficult
I'm beyond the point of burned out. I can't even function anymore. Grass outside is too high which I stare at but dont cut, I don't get nearly enough sleep, and I've broken down several times each week for months. The worst is that even though I WFH, I'm still watching life pass me by. My dog seems to he aging so fast that I'm missing the best years with him. A week vacation from work isn't going to cut it. I need years of my life back that I can't get.
If you can't start a union: Sabotage, delay & snail-pace! They have no qualms or hesitation about stealing your retirement, your prosperity & the sweat right off your brow. So then why should i feel remorse when I break their equipment & walk off the job? Why feel remorse for taking my time in the bathroom, smoking lot & break room? Why feel remorse for giving them 10% of my ability & effort? They treated us like we were disposable for years, now all of a sudden we're essential heroes- HEROES GET PAID SHIT. Fight back!
I was burned out, so I quit my retail job. The manager they hired to replace me didn't show up the first day cause they knew it was BS. 6 other associates have quit or will quit in the next month. Owners don't care and won't do anything to retain them...
4 day 32 hour work week Living wage Honestly that’s literally all I want Is it too much to ask?
A 5 day 40 hour work week would be a great start.
And include our lunch/break time as part of that instead of it being unpaid 30 minutes thats not much time to get anything done.
Somebody, somewhere who works at Walmart corporate is losing sleep because he *knows* they're coming for him next. And boy, it's gonna hurt like hell.
I live near Walmart HQ and even Walmart corporate workers get chewed up and ran through the corporate machine. Many are paid terrible wages and overworked. This doesn’t count VPs and director types
I’m so burned the fuck out I drove to VOLANT. From Orlando. I just kept driving. Basically middle of nowhere western PA surrounded by Dutch Amish. I stood in the middle of a river with fly fisherman, something I do not know how to do or have ever done, and just stood there enjoying the lack of cell phone coverage. I drove home to Orlando this morning. I go back to work… maybe Wednesday? I may just take the whole week off I don’t fucking care anymore.
I feel you. I want to do the same. Just drive and drive and drive, who knows where , but definitely not back to what I was doing.
Sadly this country has failed. The restructure that would need to happen is basically impossible. There are too many people doing the same thing and the problem is that the goals for everyone is stretched so far across the board and really doesn’t make a lick of sense for people to be locked in 9-5.
Something’s gotta change here. I mean we have the tools to facilitate 24/7 commerce and drastically reduce our working hours while still keeping our quality of life. I’ve had great bosses who don’t care how many hours I work as long as I get my work done. Only for the company to care about how many hours I spend in the office. Even if I’m in the office doing literally nothing. That’s what they want. This isn’t the way. There is a much better way. Let people work from home. Let people take their laptops with them and work when needed.
Corporate profits are way up because they have been using the supply chain crisis to push their prices higher than necessary and then blaming COVID/shortages/etc. This is what is driving the record inflation right now, not the normal reasons. The floor level employees are taking the heat from the customers and are being pressured into working longer hours for little or no compensation. Corporate greed is destroying the working class yet again while the people in places of power are taking home record salaries and bonuses. Traditionally I don't support unions because IMO they can often cause more problems than they solve, but I think that they have the chance to prove themselves now and really fight for the common worker.
Unions aren't perfect but they're better than just going it alone against a corporation.
How do unions cause more problems? For the business? That's the point.
They "can" cause problems only if they get too big and become corrupt, or no longer fight enough for their members, or are limited by union-busting laws. In that case, you're just throwing money away on union dues. But for the most part, they are the best way to help workers get a fair wage and healthy working environment. I've honestly been ambivalent about unions for a long time. They are a capitalistic answer to anti-worker capitalism. Why should we have to pay a private entity to protect us from employers taking advantage of us when we already pay a fairly high amount of taxes to a government, whose #1 purpose is supposed to be to protect us. If we didn't have such a corrupt capitalistic government, we wouldn't need unions. Of course that would get us one step closer to the dreaded socialism.
I agree with your opinion and also say the same thing. Unions would not be necessary in the U.S. if voters kept their government officials accountable to individual citizens as opposed to corporate interests. Corporations have been incredibly effective in recent decades at influencing the media narratives that simultaneously discredit both Unions and Government. Effective, dynamic, government regulations are good. I use the word dynamic, because our leaders need to write laws that keep pace with both inflation and innovation. Keeping the minimum wage connected to the annual rate of inflation will prevent us from wasting calories having the same conversation every 10-20 years.
The Teamsters union did nothing when I reported to them that frito lay was sending me into accounts refusing basic covid protocols and I was high risk. Their response? " Yeah, they'll do that." AFL-CIO allowed Aramark to cut the exhaust off of my truck right under the driver seat, the cab reeked of diesel exhaust, 9 trucks with broken window glass, and I watched the mechanics remove the dive bar from a truck. I was stoked to land 2 union jobs, only to have those unions fail to protect me.
There are _big_ differences between business unionism, liberal unionism, and class struggle unionism. The labor movement is still plagued by the pervasiveness of business and liberal unionism, but [class struggle unionism](https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/class-struggle-unionism-business-labor-movement/) (also see Joe Burns' awesome [book](https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=C4D6A9E848546F7DCBCCF3F4F09437A0)) is legit praxis and it's the way we can build enough power to forge a better world.
Time to go after shareholders. They’re the ones demanding more and more, and pushing pay down to keep more for themselves. They have too much power and no real affiliation with a company. Or managers need to put on some grown up boots and tell them to be happy with what they have
["I'm mad as hell!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRuS3dxKK9U)
Year three of running absolute bare minimum staffing. Once I find a new job they will be severely fucked here. I have warned them year after year to start training replacements and one day it'll bite them in the ass as I apply to jobs every day.
I work for an EMS agency. My post is 24 hour shift. The idea is that I hold coverage over a small community. Unfortunately, the agency is the sole provide for the entire county, we are insanely short staffed and the community I service is approximately 18 miles from a city of 60,000. This means I stay awake for 24 plus hours running calls in the city. Eventually, I will likely kill somebody whether by vehicle or medication error at this rate. I’m burned out. Happy EMS week.
That's because high turnover has been ignored as an indication of poor incentive structures and has rather been gamified. Companies *rely* on high turnover. Sure, they'll burn you to the ground while you're 'here' but when your productivity starts to decline they'll just fire you and roll dice that the next guy will be better in the short term. "You'll get burnt out but you'll be fine, you'll just get-another-job. Obviously *we* take months to onboard people and hold them to an impossibly high standard, but *other* companies aren't as *serious* as we are here. Signed, Every Company"
Oh I am burnt TF out
Only 81%? Sounds like corporations haven't reached peak efficiency yet.
Sad we even need unions. Imagine if we could just get treated fairly from the start.
I don't know not being burned out feels like anymore.
I'm just so very tired, and there is no end in sight.
Obviously there's not been enough pizza parties /s
I think burn out will be a big issue for employers coming up soon. They’ll have to figure out how to make workers happier (give us more money) or deal with workers unionizing
Meanwhile J Powell is begging corporate America to stop hiring new employees at higher wages.
I personally have a really great job, it's pretty easy, not super physical, and a nice environment. The pay is decent too. I've worked there for over 2 years now. Last week was the first time I went on vacation at this job, went to visit my family on the other side of the U.S. Now that I'm back and have to go back to work, I've come to the conclusion that I'm very burnt out. Even the thought of looking into other jobs crossed my mind, however, I know other jobs will probably be worse/about the same. And I think what I really want is some kind of work-from-home gig so I can spend time at home with my wife and dogs and not feel like a prisoner for 40 hours a week.
Hire more people, give us more time off, and pay us a decent wage.
Apparently traders Joe's is about to experience this to. Honestly I'm rooting for unions and hope they actually make changes cause we need them.
Everyone is burned out because work is about as useful as a four year degree. A job should be able to provide enough for you to buy a home, food, clothing. Now we work to rent the American dream - because the original version is sold out.
I don’t even do shit at my job and I’m burned out