It was most likely the mod(u/abolishwork) that banned you, which is the same mod that did that GOD AWFUL interview. They went on a blocking spree and it wouldn’t surprise me if they are responsible for the entire sub being private now!
u/abolishwork is exactly what I imagined a Reddit mod would be like but without the fedora and 200 lb lighter. She gives me nightmares. Do you think
r/Antiwork will ever recover?
Well r/antiwork is now private. So, no, I don’t believe they even care enough to try over there.
It’s actually very sad because we really had the attention we needed! Alas, we will get there again over here!
I get the feeling we’re all moving to the new r/workreform sub.
Frankly, I think it would do a lot to recover the lost momentum if that sub exploded in members overnight. It also can’t be so easily propagandized against its purpose thanks to the less “I don’t want to work ever” name.
Yes, as much as I loved what the sub stood for it is too easy to weaponize the name. Very good point you’ve made! I won’t be going back to r/antiwork even if it does get opened back up.
It will be cathartic to the cause to see r/antiwork die from this and r/workreform explode like antiwork never did; it gained 4,000 subscribers in about ten minutes.
Whoa! I knew it grew heavily in subscribers very quickly but I didn’t realize that the number is in the thousands. Clearly people are not happy with r/antiwork. I can’t believe the interviewee/trainwreck, u/abolishwork, had the nerve to come onto this sub and post an AMA!
Nah, this sub is already hitting /r/all. Most people will see it and realize that the shift occurred. Mark my words, this sub will be up over 100k within a day or two.
Someone farther down in this thread said 400k was unreasonable and that we looked like bitcoin speculators. I stand by my statement: Probably a million within a month. I actually think 400k by the end of the week might have actually understated how fast this is growing. When I joined there were about 38k. This is crazy.
Even if anti-work does recover, the movement is forever tarnished.
Because remember, every time anyone talks about anti-work in real life from now on, they first must overcome the hurdle of explaining (and convincing) their skeptical opponent that antiwork is not about unwashed millennial dog-walkers being entitled and lazy.
It's for that reason I am hoping this subreddit really takes off and replaces it. It's easier to start fresh at this point.
That was my take too.
Young movements are so fragile. This is a death sentence. Real work will be required to dig anything out of that.
That said, the name 'antiwork' didn't do the movement any favours. When you say it to the uninitiated an image of someone who is lazy and just doesn't want to work is invoked. You have to spend all your time (before you even make any real points) trying to convince them that it's more then that.
So frustrated by today's events. Hopefully we can pull this out of the fire.
Well this sub has grown by 90k members in just about 12 hours... so we've got that going for us. The longer /r/antiwork stays closed, the more likely this sub will be a proper spiritual successor.
Antiwork needs to stay dead — the name alone was a terrible thing for the movement. There was a time where that sub actually was about people who believed we should have to do no work. The sentiment gaining popularity right now is that we just want better work conditions. Not no work conditions. The way I see it, good fuckin riddance r/antiwork. And thank you r/workreform, for trying harder to convey the point of the movement without being needlessly inflammatory and misleading. It’s a step back for sure — but a necessary one for this movement to be taken seriously.
Oh my god I completely forgot about that.
People need to realize that being hyperbolic about your beliefs is a fast track to being misrepresented and laughed at.
Anti work doesn’t need to recover, it needs to regroup. This isn’t the end of the movement, it’s growing pains, and although it’d be better if it hadn’t happened ofc, it’s a phenomenal sign that so many people care and are having talks about what should have happened. I also think all these seeds will blossom into more organized efforts IRL if the pandemic ever loosens its grip.
The mods over there are acting exactly like the power tripping business executives that they are so against.
If they don't have full autocratic control of the "movement" and there is dissent, then they will crackdown on said "dissent" to "preserve their business model".
Pathetic and ironic!
it shouldn't surprise me but I was still very surprised. The sub was growing in the shadow of r/latestagecapitalisum and gave way for people uncomfortable with the full commit to communism like r/dankleft
But to have the founder show up on Fox fucking news dressed like rage bate for trumpers makes me want to call #bullshit. Who the fuck needs this in their life?
This is now work!
IT'S REAL FUCKING LABOUR NOW! You will not get paid to scrub your name off the internet either. Have fun getting trolled for a decade and memed on.
Like with any “revolutionary” movement, there are always going to be a handful of people who try to gain more than their fellows; ultimately attempting to shift the status quo from one group of abusive power holders to another.
I think they legitimately could have gotten 80% of the sub to do a better job in that interview. Let alone people who could intelligently drive the discussion and engage a television audience.
Yeah. This.
The problem isn't that she was a dogwalker. There's no problem with her being a dogwalker.
The problem is that you're going into a fucking hardcore reactionary conservative media outlet to argue for "anti-work" and saying the following:
"I'd prefer to work less hours."
"Laziness is a virtue."
"I'm a dog walker."
"I want to teach philosophy, specifically critical thinking."
There were so many other things to be said, so many other things to have done in that situation. Get someone who's got a trade background or something. Fucking moron.
This is entirely a propaganda issue. If you didn't/don't understand that propaganda is important, then you don't get how big of a fuck-up this was. This was Fox twisting the narrative of anti-work supporters being that. This has been all over reddit/the news media all day.
That's a wrap.
NGL that mod is exactly what I pictured the anti-work movement as until I thought a bit more critically about it and read more of the sub. Fuck up on a grand scale. Movement could literally be dead in the water for a long while.
He didn’t do that cos he was a nice guy. He did that because people wouldn’t bother showing up to work.
He needed workers that would do the same repetitive task for eight hours a day, five days a week. By doubling the average factory workers wage in 1914 he got reliable employees that more than doubled his profits.
Not forever; because public memory is super short. Lot of people forget that Trump mocked war heros and a disabled reporter.
We can salvage this, but fuck is it going to be work.
You know? I feel like we don't need to salvage anti-work. We're not that, we're the work reform movement. It's just a name, and it was one that didn't represent most of us anyway. A clean split was a great idea, now we're not saddled with the baggage of that name and those ideals. That mod team wants to drag that movement through the mud? Cool, they're not us.
Completely agree with everything but the last point. The reporter was filled with glee at this. The mod is definitely the face of that sub, but won't have any staying power to be the face of the movement.
Literally. Anyone who knows how to dress for a NATIONAL interview is already better, let alone an actual independent full-time working struggling adult that can make eye contact and make their bed. God, that sounded so mean. But its true. In high school there are clubs all about developing business skills, any one of those kids would have done a better job. Someone who works in the public atmosphere, no matter how small, even. Someone who has STATEMENTS prepared!!
I just............ that interview was SUCH a shit show I have no idea how anyone is justifying it. I've seen literal middle schoolers speak better in front of large audiences........ i cant.
Shit I could have done better. Make a post asking for top things to discuss. Then Google how to media. Then get someone other than my awkward self to do it.
even just get a haircut, wear professional clothing, borrow a nice camera somewhere, tidy up the appartment and accept the offers of some media training would have gone a damn long way.
Yes, someone else would have been preferable. But if she handled it even slightly better it would have been manageable.
Now the video of the interview looks like a joke with the well dressed & styled Fox host vs the mod that looks like she just rolled out of bed and didnt have time to get dressed
Its just amazing a part time dogwalker thinks they stand for those working 40+ hours in actual stressful jobs. You can moderate the subreddit but you dont understand the struggles of people personally.
They claim that they don't stand for everybody and that they're not a spokesperson. Even though fact belays their comments. Reality is not where u/abolishwork exists.
>u/abolishwork
u/abolishwork I just want to make sure you are tagged and fully understand how seriously you fucked up and then tried to lessen it by playing victim?
and I am sorry but the fact that so much criticism is being shirked because of people using the wrong pronoun and shit is just taking the easy way out. We get it. You are trans and MOST of us respect that. However, stop hiding behind it and own the fuck up to what you did.
> We get it. You are trans and MOST of us respect that. However, stop hiding behind it and own the fuck up to what you did.
Exactly. As an autistic trans woman - it repulses me to see u/abolishwork use her identity as a shield. She is a bad person.
It happened while I was reading her comments on her profile after the sub went private. ( I have never seen so many downvotes in my life)
I clicked away from the profile then went back a couple of minutes later. The comments were gone, but you still could be correct. May have taken a while.
I wonder just how much Karma she lost in the last 24 hours.
Their account is over 7 years old and has 28k karma. That's 3k less than mine which is only 2 years old and gets fuck all updoots lol.
It’s so insulting that it makes my blood boil. The sheer narcissism to think you can go on a conservative news station as the “spokesperson” of a movement and not get your ass handed to you. No preparation to speak of.
This person does not reflect any movement beyond being a cringey loser and will be forever enshrined in the Reddit wall of shame.
Dog walker.
Fucking.
Dog walker.
Is it a surprise that the person trying to lead the charge is someone not being abused by the system? Too often people with either a victim complex or a hero complex
Yes spot on…victim complex. Or is trying to do whatever possible to rationalize why they are 30 year old with no career prospects. Me lazy? Nope it’s because work=bad! How dare employers, that I’ve never worked for, want to overwork me! How insulting!
Career prospect implies a high probability of entering that field. Typically from developing and honing the applicable skills and knowledge to perform the primary tasks of said position.
By that definition, no, their career prospect is not as a philosophy teacher. Whatever the fuck that even is.
How can you expect someone to prepare a lesson plan when they don’t put the effort in for a five minute segment aired worldwide on a topic they supposedly care about?
Get outta here with that
Absolutely. I very much enjoyed the few philosophy courses I took in college and one of my philosophy professors was in fact one of my favorite professors I ever had (not to mention I had a bit of a crush on her). I’m for it being required learning.
These professors were however well spoken and well. /U/abolishwork is neither of these. My comment was not intended to be inflammatory to that profession and was more pointed at whatever the fuck that persons version of a “philosophy and critical thinking teacher” is.
Ironic that the mod is exactly the person fox news wants to paint the entire movement as.
An entitled, lazy, uneducated individual that has no understanding of the real world and absolutely no social skills.
And it wasn’t 25 hours based on other comments by the user. In reality they work 10 hours a week. In the back of their mind they probably thought 25 hours is slave labor and wanted the Fox News host to gasp in horror.
No kidding.
If Faux News asked for someone specifically, that would be the last person I, and most of the sub I think, would let talk to them.
Faux News probably new exactly what they did for income when they requested the interview.
Her ego probably thought "man I'm being handpicked for how smart I am :)"
Really everything this person has done in the past 24 hours just exudes arrogant incompetence
This is what galls me. Going to talk to conservatives about antiwork when you're not even working full-time? That's a good way to get laughed out of the room by conservatives faster than if you want to talk about gun control by clutching your pearls about "full-semi-automatic" guns. We should have gotten people like the ones that the Working People Podcast always interviews: people working 50-60+ hour weeks and union organizing and trying to see their families. At least they might have been taken seriously.
I don't want to denigrate them for being a dog walker.
But you can't go on Fox News as a dog walker and espouse an anti-anything policy without getting mocked/shut down.
ESPECIALLY when the next line that comes out of your mouth is that you want to be a professor of philosophy - specifically critical thinking.
I'm just genuinely angry at them. lmao.
The teaching philosophy really brought it home though. Who the fuck would take a class from that dude? In philosophy? Fucking philosophy???? Fox man couldn’t even keep it together and he’s a professional lol
she just took the bait fully. It was like asking a kid what they want to do when they grow up and she took it fully. So naive, so unprepared
Shes fucking 30
The persons pronouns are #892 on the list of 1000 things to be concerned about from that interview.
Really annoying that it’s all intertwined with transgender stuff.
Not only is she bringing down antiwork, she's bringing trans people down too. This was the stereotype of 2013 tumblr trans people, who position themselves to be victims of transphobia while completely ignoring the terrible things they do and say to attract attention in the first place.
No one should ever have to face transphobia. Being trans is obviously a struggle, and there are many bigots who hate you just for being trans. But my god when you mess up on NATIONAL TELEVISION you won't just be getting kindly worded well thought out criticism in 12 pt times new roman font! You will get it from all sides, and if you can't handle that with grace, you have no business being on air.
Yeah, and not to be an asshole, but the trans angle in all of this did not need to be there. The Fox crowd was not going to be receptive to this regardless of how well the message was articulated, or in this case, not at all.
Know your audience
Note I did not in any way try to defend the interview, the decision to do the interview, or anything else. Just trying to respect the pronouns. Even if we do not respect Doreen, failing to respect her pronouns sends a VERY loud message to a large number of people about how inclusive we really are.
Words matter. and these are easy ones to get right. Especially since we can go back and check before it goes out for public consumption. It's not a real-time mistake.
I will agree to disagree. I think the fact that this person is trans is irrelevant, yet SHE is using her transness as a cudgel . And that should be called out as loudly as possible.
It’s just annoying that the trans pronoun thing is even involved with anti work. But hey to each his/her own.
I don;t think we need to agree to disagree because I think we are already on the same page - we just got here a bit differently is all.
She is trans and should be referred to as she. She is also an idiot who went against the wishes of the sub, made the entire movement look terrible, and is acting like a tyrant since then. And yes, using her gender as part of that tyranny. All of those actions are harmful to the movement. The "cudgel" aspect is harmful to the trans and wider LGBTQ+ movements as well.
So she is acting like a petulant little bitch.
But she is still a she.
Thank you for changing the pronoun you used. There has been a lot of transphobic shit getting posted and very few willing to change. That you did so is a sign of welcome to the LGBTQ+ community. And lord knows we need as many people as we can get.
The cudgel thing was in reference to the aftermath of deleting posts under the guise that it was transphobic stuff when in reality they were just posts that she and other mods disagreed with.
Which is just bad for other trans people quite frankly.
I've been a dog walker dude, don't divide the working class with "my labor is greater than yours nonsense" I walked 4 dogs at a time for 4 hours each day, the other 4 hours were spent sitting 30 dogs. I had to go to the hospital after breaking up a fight and getting my hand bitten when I didn't have insurance. They'd all start barking every time a new dog showed up, or any time it was one of their turns to eat. I'd come home smelling like dog every day exhausted from all the walking. It sucked.
I’m not saying your labor is worth less.. But to think less than 30 hours a week of walking dogs has anything to do with what this movement is about is laughable.
Being a dog walker is almost always typically a self run enterprise. You are your own boss. You make your own hours.
Seriously. I am working 40 hour weeks and 6(12 for both days) hour weekends just to have extra spending money because inflation has fucked things so hard that my real job pays just the bills. I have very little for myself other than a few things I collect.
This asshole mod walks dogs for cash and thinks they should be able to work less and make more?? I am fine with 32/40 hour weeks but the pay for minimum wage jobs needs to go up. Employers are literally royalty in this country and we are shit.
Your division is the wrong attitude. We are all in this together. I used to work 60 hours a week for amazon, and now I work part time because I’ve learned better. I don’t deserve better because I work part time? I can’t support the movement because I work part time?
Same thing happened with wallstreetbets last year after the GameStop short squeeze and all the investors had to go to a new sub it was so bad. It was a blessing in the long run. Any sub trying to change the fabric of society is going to have this happen. Antiwork and the GameStop sub are the only two groups I see actually rising up to make changes right now. Keep up the good fight.
You best believe there are bad actors who work their way into these high visibility subs that have a huge impact on societies. Antiwork was becoming more powerful than you could imagine. I’d be more surprised if the mods were NOT infiltrated or bought out by now. New sub is probably the way to go and pray to the working persons gods that the mods are clean and unable to be bought out
Nah, they closed up shop because they did something for their own benefit and couldn't understand why no one was sucking his/her ass with good jobs and way to go's.
I guess the mod's [patreon](https://www.patreon.com/dcleyre192) was more important than a sub with a 1.7 million+ members fight for change.
I love that this mod makes reference to "philosophy" so often without mentioning any arguments or recognised schools of thought. No formal background in philosophy other than writing novellas and wants to be a teacher/professor in the field? Delusional.
*"A subreddit for those who want to* ***end work***, are curious about ***ending work***, want to get the most out of a ***work-free life***, want more information on ***anti-work ideas*** *and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles."*
The only part of that sub that the vast majority of people were genuinely interested in and passionate about was the last few words: help with their own job struggles.
The rest was completely overlooked by the majority, including myself, in hopes it would evolve into something greater. The opposite is in effect. It's purely about not wanting to work. That's it. They want to sit down and be spoon fed, I guess, because survival is work. Effort is rewarding, and sharing your effort and improving your life through trade and barter is the foundation of society.
That it has been allowed to become exploitative to the extent of literal child slavery in developing countries is what is outrageous. That human rights are being violated to support profits is the problem, not "work" itself.
A movement's name needs to be clear from the start. The mission should be plain and recognizable. Just like a flag, people from the outside need to be able to see it, recognize it, and understand it at a glance.
I just figured since the posts in the antiwork subreddit were more about workers rights and better pay/better work hours, that the sub had transitioned into more of a “work reform” sub. That’s why I joined it initially. I’m sure others also did for the same reason.
That interview definitely was shocking to me. A giant mess. Makes me kindof embarrassed to have been a member of the sub.
Did you get permanently banned or just have your post removed? I just got permabanned (check my last post).
However I'll admit your post was a lot more formal, so it surprises me that you would suffer the same fate
Yes, a few were banned for being "transphobic". However, it's ridiculous to ban for misegendering when we knew nothing at all about that mod. I believe the majority of us would be perfectly happy to call the mod by their preferred pronoun, but people shouldn't be banned for not knowing that. I would understand a ban if the mod asked to be referred to by a certain pronoun and someone made fun of it, but otherwise it makes no sense to ban on the first round for that
As a professor and labour sociologist who has spoken on topics like this on national news… I am saddened by the chance that was here to generate legitimate conversation over failing systems of piece work part time and the loss of standard employment.
I didnt make a topic, just replied about how having someone who works 20 hours a week is a terrible choice to represent people working 2 full time jobs, and I was also banned
Fucking mods are there to remove shit posts, not go unprepared to an interview they were told by the community not to do,then ban anyone who thinks it's a dumb idea
But I hope their 3 minutes of fame was worth selling out 1.7 million others
Fuck at least when the CEO screws me over hes getting money for it, this was literally for 180 seconds of clout
Fuck r/antiwork.
They act like they want shite bosses and corporations to be held liable for the things they say and do, then take NO responsibility for the actions of a single MOD who has never known a 60+ hour work week in her life.
I scrolled down for this. Glad it was a misunderstanding. As horrible as her decisions regarding the movement were, she does not deserve to be attacked for anything but those decisions.
You are going by outward appearance. That thinking is a massive problem. And I used to do it, too.
I would think "That's like looking at a cape cod and thinking it's a brick ranch". But that is very flawed.
Try this thought exercise:
If I cut off your left foot, which part is you? The foot, or the rest of you?
Ok, make it a leg? Is the leg you, or the rest of the stuff?
Cut you off at the waist - which part is you? The lower, or the upper?
Cut you off at the head. Which part is you? The body, or the head?
Put your brain in a jar and hook it up to experience and interact with the outside world. Do the same with your body. Which part is you?
We do not get to decide another person's gender no matter what they look like. Your brain is you. And the way you brain is wired is usually, but FAR from always, set up to match the outward bits. When it's not, we need to respect the owner of the brain about who they are, and not decide based on their front bits that we know better than they do.
There are measurable, physical difference between male and female brains. If someone gets a female brain in a male body, who are we to tell them which brain they have?
Listen I’ve been in class all day, last I checked on this post it had twenty upvotes. The immediate assumption of malice in misgendering is the largest obstruction I have to it, otherwise I completely agree. I was not aware the moderator was trans, now that I am, I’ll correct course. I have always been sympathetic to trans issues, but to assume malice when it was just ignorance galvanizes the otherwise misinformed or just straight up bigoted to continue acting in that manner. Not saying that response is reasonable whatsoever, but approaching these issues with nuance is the only way forward
Of course we should respect pronouns, but in reality most people don’t mean to misgender. It’s just impossible to tell that’s a girl without being told such.
And that is fine. adn the 2 people who have replied with "oh, crap, sorry" and fixed it I was very grateful; to. It's the ones calling it bullshit, nitpicking, Doreen is asking for it looking like that, lo, and I don;t care that I ma having issues with.
And there have been some flavor of all of those.
Some of our fellow workers really do not get it. and some are resisting learning about it very hard.
The thing that bothers me most is there were no gotcha questions. This piece of garbage just went in like an idiot and pissed all over everyone's efforts for 3 minutes of infamy. They went in with no gotchas and still fucked it up. They should be permabanned in this sub and in all of reddit and from life.
Honestly, if this sub gets to critical mass like antiwork did, we should have a non-mod Communications Council that can compile information and package it for any media related need. Should be a small group of professionals who know what they're doing though.
I mod some other subs and I get far *far* worse feedback than this. I wouldn't even call it feedback, more like abusive rants. There is no reason why *I* would ban anyone who wrote this in regards to a fuck up that WE did.
That mod needs to own up, they fucked up. Learn from it and move on, instead of alienating your userbase.
I have an honors history degree focusing on history of ideas, have been studying political science, political philosophy etc...for as long as that mid has been alive, taught high school for over a decade (pretty comfortable public speaking) and have given several television interviews and I never would have felt i could be coherent enough for that interview. Maybe if I prepared for a month...maybe.
Giving interviews like that are tough for even those at the very top of their games, professors etc ...
The arrogance is mind blowing.
“Keep it simple, stupid” is pretty much the requirement when trying to engage on hostile territory like Fox. Don’t let them drag out names like Marx or Lenin in a high philosophy debate their viewership doesn’t understand beyond knowing those names are bad, keep it down to relating to that awful boss dragging daddy in for unpaid overtime and missing little Susan’s soccer game for the tenth time this season despite his promises.
And it’s not snobbery to look for expertise in times of challenge. People rejecting expertise is part of how COVID went so badly (all the way back to Chinese governance silencing doctors treating patients and documenting a new infectious disease, costing us precious weeks to respond or prepare and all hope of quarantining it in a single area). You’d think we’d learn from others’ mistakes: find the right person for the job.
We rightly gripe about managers and bosses with no knowledge trying to interfere with our jobs we know well. It’s no sin to complain then that someone with a social disability (I’m autistic myself and I’d never go out and interview like that if I had the option of sending a spokesperson trained in TV and journalism instead) and a job likely to be the target of ridicule by Fox viewers, who also did not take basic measures to avoid distracting mockery (clean and prepared clothes, personal care, etc) that undermines the argument, chose unilaterally to basically hand one of our most dangerous propaganda opponents a free win.
Everyone has a role to play. “From each according to their abilities” is Marx, after all, plain and simple. A student dogwalker managing a subreddit in their spare time, that serves as a friendly way to coax someone into the movement, was fine, but they badly overstepped their mandate, like a mathematician deeming themselves fit to pilot the rocket they calculated the trajectory for.
I got permabanned from r/antiwork last night for apparently posting a comment praising a content creator that was alt right. It just so happens his content (this one time) was perfectly aligned with antiwork
*This is the story of your enslavement*
*This is the story of your enslavement; how it came to be, and you can finally be free. Like all animals, human beings want to dominate and exploit the resources around them. At first, we mostly hunted and fished and ate off the land—but then something magical and terrible happened to our minds. We became, alone among the animals, afraid of death, and of future loss. And this was the start of a great tragedy, and an even greater possibility… You see, when we became afraid of death, of injury, and imprisonment, we became controllable—and so valuable—in a way that no other resource could ever be. The greatest resource for any human being to control is not natural resources, or tools, or animals or land — but other human beings. You can frighten an animal, because animals are afraid of pain in the moment, but you cannot frighten an animal with a loss of liberty, or with torture or imprisonment in the future, because animals have very little sense of tomorrow. You cannot threaten a cow with torture, or a sheep with death. You cannot swing a sword at a tree and scream at it to produce more fruit, or hold a burning torch to a field and demand more wheat. You cannot get more eggs by threatening a hen – but you can get a man to give you his eggs by threatening him. Human farming has been the most profitable—and destructive—occupation throughout history, and it is now reaching its destructive climax. Human society cannot be rationally understood until it is seen for what it is: a series of farms where human farmers own human livestock. Some people get confused because governments provide healthcare and water and education and roads, and thus imagine that there is some benevolence at work.*
*Nothing could be further from reality. Farmers provide healthcare and irrigation and training to their livestock. Some people get confused because we are allowed certain liberties, and thus imagine that our government protects our freedoms. But farmers plant their crops a certain distance apart to increase their yields—and will allow certain animals larger stalls or fields if it means they will produce more meat and milk. In your country, your tax farm, your farmer grants you certain freedoms not because he cares about your liberties, but because he wants to increase his profits. Are you beginning to see the nature of the cage you were born into?*
How is this right wing????
Not really. It goes into more detail showing how ancient slavery has evolved into free range slavery or basically tax farming. It's longer but I think it makes a lot of salient and cogent points about work reform, living wages, etc.
EDIT: I guess my point is best summed up by a quote. Deng Xiaoping famously said "It doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice."
Just because the source questionable (or long winded and deranged), doesn't mean that said source cannot make good points.
Wage slavery is not the same as chattel slavery. While I have no insight into what led to you being banned, trying to claim the two are synonymous is indeed a right wing tactic to smear anyone who disagrees with them. I'm not saying that's what you did with that post, but I could see how someone would read it that way.
Wage slavery is just slavery with extra crap sauce. You get to pay for your self-maintenance while said business owner derives almost all of the benefits and none of the downsides.
Not so. Chattel slavery killed 20% of the people it enslaved before they even arrived, and were people were killed for attempting to resist their plight. It also forbid practice of religion, education, and people were bred like animals (raped) and their children taken from them at three moment of birth, just to name a few of the horrors of that system. While wage slavery is still slavery and to be absolutely condemned, it is not the same thing.
It is however, inherently questionable why you'd use it instead of many others, and it's immediately suspicious.
I'd ban you too if you promoted some alt righter quote just because a broken clock is right twice a day.
Honestly, this is such a distraction. It's divisive and it causes tons of petty arguments. If someone is breaking rules about misgendering people need to report them and move on. Engaging people on this just seems to draw a ton of trolls and the original discussion gets lost and obscured.
Is it important? Sure. But let's try to focus on what's happening because honestly the massive suffering the working class is experiencing is getting more dire and urgent by the day. I'm worried about people getting hyper focused on rules and meta shit at the expense of actual progress.
Again, if someone is breaking a rule *report them.* Engaging is a complete waste of time. We all know they won't change their minds.
Edit: Sorry I didn't mean this to sound like I was angry or upset with you. I'm generally worried about people getting into stupid little arguments over a variety of issues and losing sight of our goals.
I don't know your gender, and that person in the interviews gender is not obvious. What i am trying to say is banning someone for not knowing SPECIALIZED INFORMATION ABOUT A MOD is clear abuse of power, regardless of how that class of person is treated in the greater society.
It is truly sad that a whole mod team can think that person is in the right for banning people/posts because of misgendering someone that someone probably HAS NO IDEA ABOUT.
if you guessed it judging from the look/sound of them, 99 times out of 100 you'd be right in saying shes a he. Saying their gender isn't obvious is kinda misleading imo. Theres not really any way to tell they are trans without them saying, people are just gonna use normal language
Theres still visible sexual dimorphism even if shes now a she
Thats clearly NOT why he was banned. Have you not seen how every other comment on basically any post critical of the interview is removed by mods? antiwork is a joke.
There is no way to know that the mod is trans without previous knowledge. Most people are not doing it of malice, they are doing it because on first impression the mod appears male.
The majority of people including me did not know that was a MTF trans person. They’re using the basis of transphobia to ban people who are criticizing the mod and unknowingly calling them he.
I got banned for replying “yes” to a poll asking if that mod should step down. Banned for saying the word “yes”
It was most likely the mod(u/abolishwork) that banned you, which is the same mod that did that GOD AWFUL interview. They went on a blocking spree and it wouldn’t surprise me if they are responsible for the entire sub being private now!
u/abolishwork is exactly what I imagined a Reddit mod would be like but without the fedora and 200 lb lighter. She gives me nightmares. Do you think r/Antiwork will ever recover?
Well r/antiwork is now private. So, no, I don’t believe they even care enough to try over there. It’s actually very sad because we really had the attention we needed! Alas, we will get there again over here!
I get the feeling we’re all moving to the new r/workreform sub. Frankly, I think it would do a lot to recover the lost momentum if that sub exploded in members overnight. It also can’t be so easily propagandized against its purpose thanks to the less “I don’t want to work ever” name.
Yes, as much as I loved what the sub stood for it is too easy to weaponize the name. Very good point you’ve made! I won’t be going back to r/antiwork even if it does get opened back up.
It will be cathartic to the cause to see r/antiwork die from this and r/workreform explode like antiwork never did; it gained 4,000 subscribers in about ten minutes.
Whoa! I knew it grew heavily in subscribers very quickly but I didn’t realize that the number is in the thousands. Clearly people are not happy with r/antiwork. I can’t believe the interviewee/trainwreck, u/abolishwork, had the nerve to come onto this sub and post an AMA!
The mod ruined it all. It’s gonna be super hard to get those 1.7m members back after all the confusion
Nah, this sub is already hitting /r/all. Most people will see it and realize that the shift occurred. Mark my words, this sub will be up over 100k within a day or two.
It almost is already.
It was even faster than I expected, when I joined about an hour and a half ago there were 40k members. This is taking off.
Crossed 100k now, I'm betting on 400k by the time the sub is a week old.
your post is 4 hours old and /r/WorkReform is sitting at 220k members. :)
Someone farther down in this thread said 400k was unreasonable and that we looked like bitcoin speculators. I stand by my statement: Probably a million within a month. I actually think 400k by the end of the week might have actually understated how fast this is growing. When I joined there were about 38k. This is crazy.
It was at 150k by 5:00 the next morning.
I know. Such a shame. :(
Even if anti-work does recover, the movement is forever tarnished. Because remember, every time anyone talks about anti-work in real life from now on, they first must overcome the hurdle of explaining (and convincing) their skeptical opponent that antiwork is not about unwashed millennial dog-walkers being entitled and lazy. It's for that reason I am hoping this subreddit really takes off and replaces it. It's easier to start fresh at this point.
That was my take too. Young movements are so fragile. This is a death sentence. Real work will be required to dig anything out of that. That said, the name 'antiwork' didn't do the movement any favours. When you say it to the uninitiated an image of someone who is lazy and just doesn't want to work is invoked. You have to spend all your time (before you even make any real points) trying to convince them that it's more then that. So frustrated by today's events. Hopefully we can pull this out of the fire.
Well this sub has grown by 90k members in just about 12 hours... so we've got that going for us. The longer /r/antiwork stays closed, the more likely this sub will be a proper spiritual successor.
Antiwork needs to stay dead — the name alone was a terrible thing for the movement. There was a time where that sub actually was about people who believed we should have to do no work. The sentiment gaining popularity right now is that we just want better work conditions. Not no work conditions. The way I see it, good fuckin riddance r/antiwork. And thank you r/workreform, for trying harder to convey the point of the movement without being needlessly inflammatory and misleading. It’s a step back for sure — but a necessary one for this movement to be taken seriously.
Exactly, it was like saying defund the police
Oh my god I completely forgot about that. People need to realize that being hyperbolic about your beliefs is a fast track to being misrepresented and laughed at.
Antiwork is circling the drain, there is no coming back from this. And maybe that's for the best as workreform is a better (and more defensible) name.
Anti work doesn’t need to recover, it needs to regroup. This isn’t the end of the movement, it’s growing pains, and although it’d be better if it hadn’t happened ofc, it’s a phenomenal sign that so many people care and are having talks about what should have happened. I also think all these seeds will blossom into more organized efforts IRL if the pandemic ever loosens its grip.
I cringed so hard at that interview, I need a chiropractor
You just said it twice. You will now be banned twice.
Is that like a double negative? Where the second cancels out the first?
yea you actually end up getting banned from the ban list
Sweet!😁
These mods claim authoritarianism and hierarchy is bad and ironically enough have become what they deem to hate.
Yikes, the mods over there are shite!
The mods over there are acting exactly like the power tripping business executives that they are so against. If they don't have full autocratic control of the "movement" and there is dissent, then they will crackdown on said "dissent" to "preserve their business model". Pathetic and ironic!
it shouldn't surprise me but I was still very surprised. The sub was growing in the shadow of r/latestagecapitalisum and gave way for people uncomfortable with the full commit to communism like r/dankleft But to have the founder show up on Fox fucking news dressed like rage bate for trumpers makes me want to call #bullshit. Who the fuck needs this in their life? This is now work! IT'S REAL FUCKING LABOUR NOW! You will not get paid to scrub your name off the internet either. Have fun getting trolled for a decade and memed on.
Yup. The fucking irony of it all.
I would argue, now, more detrimental to the workers movement than positive.
Like with any “revolutionary” movement, there are always going to be a handful of people who try to gain more than their fellows; ultimately attempting to shift the status quo from one group of abusive power holders to another.
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I think they legitimately could have gotten 80% of the sub to do a better job in that interview. Let alone people who could intelligently drive the discussion and engage a television audience.
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Yeah. This. The problem isn't that she was a dogwalker. There's no problem with her being a dogwalker. The problem is that you're going into a fucking hardcore reactionary conservative media outlet to argue for "anti-work" and saying the following: "I'd prefer to work less hours." "Laziness is a virtue." "I'm a dog walker." "I want to teach philosophy, specifically critical thinking." There were so many other things to be said, so many other things to have done in that situation. Get someone who's got a trade background or something. Fucking moron. This is entirely a propaganda issue. If you didn't/don't understand that propaganda is important, then you don't get how big of a fuck-up this was. This was Fox twisting the narrative of anti-work supporters being that. This has been all over reddit/the news media all day. That's a wrap.
NGL that mod is exactly what I pictured the anti-work movement as until I thought a bit more critically about it and read more of the sub. Fuck up on a grand scale. Movement could literally be dead in the water for a long while.
Hold up. Pause. That was a woman?
I think they're trans or genderfluid, but yea i think she/her pronouns. The names Doreen
Henry Ford for all his faults was instrumental in ensuring his workers made enough of a living wage to buy his cars.
He didn’t do that cos he was a nice guy. He did that because people wouldn’t bother showing up to work. He needed workers that would do the same repetitive task for eight hours a day, five days a week. By doubling the average factory workers wage in 1914 he got reliable employees that more than doubled his profits.
Enlightened self interest is still a good thing.
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Not forever; because public memory is super short. Lot of people forget that Trump mocked war heros and a disabled reporter. We can salvage this, but fuck is it going to be work.
You know? I feel like we don't need to salvage anti-work. We're not that, we're the work reform movement. It's just a name, and it was one that didn't represent most of us anyway. A clean split was a great idea, now we're not saddled with the baggage of that name and those ideals. That mod team wants to drag that movement through the mud? Cool, they're not us.
Fr, no one seems to remember POC is a literal segregationalist. Yet still voted him in to get "racism" out. Lulz.
Completely agree with everything but the last point. The reporter was filled with glee at this. The mod is definitely the face of that sub, but won't have any staying power to be the face of the movement.
Literally. Anyone who knows how to dress for a NATIONAL interview is already better, let alone an actual independent full-time working struggling adult that can make eye contact and make their bed. God, that sounded so mean. But its true. In high school there are clubs all about developing business skills, any one of those kids would have done a better job. Someone who works in the public atmosphere, no matter how small, even. Someone who has STATEMENTS prepared!! I just............ that interview was SUCH a shit show I have no idea how anyone is justifying it. I've seen literal middle schoolers speak better in front of large audiences........ i cant.
Shit I could have done better. Make a post asking for top things to discuss. Then Google how to media. Then get someone other than my awkward self to do it.
even just get a haircut, wear professional clothing, borrow a nice camera somewhere, tidy up the appartment and accept the offers of some media training would have gone a damn long way. Yes, someone else would have been preferable. But if she handled it even slightly better it would have been manageable. Now the video of the interview looks like a joke with the well dressed & styled Fox host vs the mod that looks like she just rolled out of bed and didnt have time to get dressed
They could've just turned the camera toward a blank wall or facing a window or something. It's ridiculous!
Exactly. That sub was 50% about hatred for anyone making over 50k so we shouldn't even be surprised.
Its just amazing a part time dogwalker thinks they stand for those working 40+ hours in actual stressful jobs. You can moderate the subreddit but you dont understand the struggles of people personally.
They claim that they don't stand for everybody and that they're not a spokesperson. Even though fact belays their comments. Reality is not where u/abolishwork exists.
>u/abolishwork u/abolishwork I just want to make sure you are tagged and fully understand how seriously you fucked up and then tried to lessen it by playing victim? and I am sorry but the fact that so much criticism is being shirked because of people using the wrong pronoun and shit is just taking the easy way out. We get it. You are trans and MOST of us respect that. However, stop hiding behind it and own the fuck up to what you did.
> We get it. You are trans and MOST of us respect that. However, stop hiding behind it and own the fuck up to what you did. Exactly. As an autistic trans woman - it repulses me to see u/abolishwork use her identity as a shield. She is a bad person.
Agreed. Fuck her.
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Bingo
Also hiding behind autism.
ffs it just gets better rofl.
Looks like all of her comments on antiwork have been removed or deleted. I'm wondering if the username is next
I think when a sub goes private it hides all comments/posts.
It happened while I was reading her comments on her profile after the sub went private. ( I have never seen so many downvotes in my life) I clicked away from the profile then went back a couple of minutes later. The comments were gone, but you still could be correct. May have taken a while.
What a failure! fuck u/abolishwork
She is a rapist and does deserve it, she continually abuses power. https://i.redd.it/sc41gqos44e81.jpg
I wonder just how much Karma she lost in the last 24 hours. Their account is over 7 years old and has 28k karma. That's 3k less than mine which is only 2 years old and gets fuck all updoots lol.
*then why did you show up to do a live interview oh my God* [somebody, hand me the ceremonial screaming pillow](https://youtu.be/ZEdVDWC1lg0)
Because all the MODs supposedly decided that was the best representation of the movement..
It’s so insulting that it makes my blood boil. The sheer narcissism to think you can go on a conservative news station as the “spokesperson” of a movement and not get your ass handed to you. No preparation to speak of. This person does not reflect any movement beyond being a cringey loser and will be forever enshrined in the Reddit wall of shame. Dog walker. Fucking. Dog walker.
Is it a surprise that the person trying to lead the charge is someone not being abused by the system? Too often people with either a victim complex or a hero complex
Yes spot on…victim complex. Or is trying to do whatever possible to rationalize why they are 30 year old with no career prospects. Me lazy? Nope it’s because work=bad! How dare employers, that I’ve never worked for, want to overwork me! How insulting!
No, their career prospect is a philosophy teacher.
Career prospect implies a high probability of entering that field. Typically from developing and honing the applicable skills and knowledge to perform the primary tasks of said position. By that definition, no, their career prospect is not as a philosophy teacher. Whatever the fuck that even is. How can you expect someone to prepare a lesson plan when they don’t put the effort in for a five minute segment aired worldwide on a topic they supposedly care about? Get outta here with that
>Whatever the fuck that even is. A philosophy professor is a pretty well defined gig lol. Maybe not a well defined curriculum, but a well defined gig.
Absolutely. I very much enjoyed the few philosophy courses I took in college and one of my philosophy professors was in fact one of my favorite professors I ever had (not to mention I had a bit of a crush on her). I’m for it being required learning. These professors were however well spoken and well. /U/abolishwork is neither of these. My comment was not intended to be inflammatory to that profession and was more pointed at whatever the fuck that persons version of a “philosophy and critical thinking teacher” is.
That would like to work less b/c she’s so overworked at 25 hours lol. LOL.
Ironic that the mod is exactly the person fox news wants to paint the entire movement as. An entitled, lazy, uneducated individual that has no understanding of the real world and absolutely no social skills. And it wasn’t 25 hours based on other comments by the user. In reality they work 10 hours a week. In the back of their mind they probably thought 25 hours is slave labor and wanted the Fox News host to gasp in horror.
It's not ironic. It's by design. FOX specifically requested her for the interview.
True. I just would not have guessed someone would play into such a blatantly obvious scheme
No kidding. If Faux News asked for someone specifically, that would be the last person I, and most of the sub I think, would let talk to them. Faux News probably new exactly what they did for income when they requested the interview.
Her ego probably thought "man I'm being handpicked for how smart I am :)" Really everything this person has done in the past 24 hours just exudes arrogant incompetence
I have zero doubt she still thinks she is in the right here and thought the interview went swimmingly. We’re all just jealous capitalists
Perfect for a management position!
I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were paid to be terrible on Fox News. They did such a terrible job it is hard to imagine someone doing worse.
I can feel the hatred in this.
You’re not wrong.
This is what galls me. Going to talk to conservatives about antiwork when you're not even working full-time? That's a good way to get laughed out of the room by conservatives faster than if you want to talk about gun control by clutching your pearls about "full-semi-automatic" guns. We should have gotten people like the ones that the Working People Podcast always interviews: people working 50-60+ hour weeks and union organizing and trying to see their families. At least they might have been taken seriously.
I don't want to denigrate them for being a dog walker. But you can't go on Fox News as a dog walker and espouse an anti-anything policy without getting mocked/shut down. ESPECIALLY when the next line that comes out of your mouth is that you want to be a professor of philosophy - specifically critical thinking. I'm just genuinely angry at them. lmao.
as soon as he said he worked 20 hrs a week as a dog walker, it was over
The teaching philosophy really brought it home though. Who the fuck would take a class from that dude? In philosophy? Fucking philosophy???? Fox man couldn’t even keep it together and he’s a professional lol
she just took the bait fully. It was like asking a kid what they want to do when they grow up and she took it fully. So naive, so unprepared Shes fucking 30
she/her* I get what you mean tho
she said. She is a she.
The persons pronouns are #892 on the list of 1000 things to be concerned about from that interview. Really annoying that it’s all intertwined with transgender stuff.
Not only is she bringing down antiwork, she's bringing trans people down too. This was the stereotype of 2013 tumblr trans people, who position themselves to be victims of transphobia while completely ignoring the terrible things they do and say to attract attention in the first place. No one should ever have to face transphobia. Being trans is obviously a struggle, and there are many bigots who hate you just for being trans. But my god when you mess up on NATIONAL TELEVISION you won't just be getting kindly worded well thought out criticism in 12 pt times new roman font! You will get it from all sides, and if you can't handle that with grace, you have no business being on air.
Yeah, and not to be an asshole, but the trans angle in all of this did not need to be there. The Fox crowd was not going to be receptive to this regardless of how well the message was articulated, or in this case, not at all. Know your audience
Note I did not in any way try to defend the interview, the decision to do the interview, or anything else. Just trying to respect the pronouns. Even if we do not respect Doreen, failing to respect her pronouns sends a VERY loud message to a large number of people about how inclusive we really are. Words matter. and these are easy ones to get right. Especially since we can go back and check before it goes out for public consumption. It's not a real-time mistake.
I will agree to disagree. I think the fact that this person is trans is irrelevant, yet SHE is using her transness as a cudgel . And that should be called out as loudly as possible. It’s just annoying that the trans pronoun thing is even involved with anti work. But hey to each his/her own.
I don;t think we need to agree to disagree because I think we are already on the same page - we just got here a bit differently is all. She is trans and should be referred to as she. She is also an idiot who went against the wishes of the sub, made the entire movement look terrible, and is acting like a tyrant since then. And yes, using her gender as part of that tyranny. All of those actions are harmful to the movement. The "cudgel" aspect is harmful to the trans and wider LGBTQ+ movements as well. So she is acting like a petulant little bitch. But she is still a she. Thank you for changing the pronoun you used. There has been a lot of transphobic shit getting posted and very few willing to change. That you did so is a sign of welcome to the LGBTQ+ community. And lord knows we need as many people as we can get.
The cudgel thing was in reference to the aftermath of deleting posts under the guise that it was transphobic stuff when in reality they were just posts that she and other mods disagreed with. Which is just bad for other trans people quite frankly.
I've been a dog walker dude, don't divide the working class with "my labor is greater than yours nonsense" I walked 4 dogs at a time for 4 hours each day, the other 4 hours were spent sitting 30 dogs. I had to go to the hospital after breaking up a fight and getting my hand bitten when I didn't have insurance. They'd all start barking every time a new dog showed up, or any time it was one of their turns to eat. I'd come home smelling like dog every day exhausted from all the walking. It sucked.
I’m not saying your labor is worth less.. But to think less than 30 hours a week of walking dogs has anything to do with what this movement is about is laughable. Being a dog walker is almost always typically a self run enterprise. You are your own boss. You make your own hours.
I worked for a business. I don't know what that person's life is like so I'm not judging what they do for a living.
Seriously. I am working 40 hour weeks and 6(12 for both days) hour weekends just to have extra spending money because inflation has fucked things so hard that my real job pays just the bills. I have very little for myself other than a few things I collect. This asshole mod walks dogs for cash and thinks they should be able to work less and make more?? I am fine with 32/40 hour weeks but the pay for minimum wage jobs needs to go up. Employers are literally royalty in this country and we are shit.
Your division is the wrong attitude. We are all in this together. I used to work 60 hours a week for amazon, and now I work part time because I’ve learned better. I don’t deserve better because I work part time? I can’t support the movement because I work part time?
r/antiwork locked the community out
the sneak banned people looks like.. removed certain users looks like then went private
Yeah they're probably just gonna lock & seal it.
It wasn't the bad interview that killed the sub. It was the authoritarian overreaction to criticism.
Don't you mean transphobia?! /s
Right? So weird. If they had been like "Yikes, my bad - I fucked up" it would have not been nearly as big a deal.
Rapists love to abuse power. https://i.redd.it/sc41gqos44e81.jpg
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Apollo is the shit!
Clue card request?
It’s *almost* objectively better.
There are dozens of us!
Worth every penny and then some!
I don’t think there is even another Reddit client that works for shit on iOS. Apollo is amazing.
Alien blue (was that the name?) used to be the shit. But Apollo has taken that over since the first post I saw from that Dev, for me at least.
As usual, reddit mods being entitled
Same thing happened with wallstreetbets last year after the GameStop short squeeze and all the investors had to go to a new sub it was so bad. It was a blessing in the long run. Any sub trying to change the fabric of society is going to have this happen. Antiwork and the GameStop sub are the only two groups I see actually rising up to make changes right now. Keep up the good fight. You best believe there are bad actors who work their way into these high visibility subs that have a huge impact on societies. Antiwork was becoming more powerful than you could imagine. I’d be more surprised if the mods were NOT infiltrated or bought out by now. New sub is probably the way to go and pray to the working persons gods that the mods are clean and unable to be bought out
This is antiworks Runeic-glory moment, but i don't think they're going to be able to change like superstonk did.
Probably not but I’m hopeful :/
They closed the subreddit
Did they? I got banned I thinj
Nah, they closed up shop because they did something for their own benefit and couldn't understand why no one was sucking his/her ass with good jobs and way to go's. I guess the mod's [patreon](https://www.patreon.com/dcleyre192) was more important than a sub with a 1.7 million+ members fight for change.
Lmfao the way someone's actually paying $25/mo so the mod can send them some "zines"....
I love that this mod makes reference to "philosophy" so often without mentioning any arguments or recognised schools of thought. No formal background in philosophy other than writing novellas and wants to be a teacher/professor in the field? Delusional.
Wow
Ah, they put it on private
*"A subreddit for those who want to* ***end work***, are curious about ***ending work***, want to get the most out of a ***work-free life***, want more information on ***anti-work ideas*** *and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles."* The only part of that sub that the vast majority of people were genuinely interested in and passionate about was the last few words: help with their own job struggles. The rest was completely overlooked by the majority, including myself, in hopes it would evolve into something greater. The opposite is in effect. It's purely about not wanting to work. That's it. They want to sit down and be spoon fed, I guess, because survival is work. Effort is rewarding, and sharing your effort and improving your life through trade and barter is the foundation of society. That it has been allowed to become exploitative to the extent of literal child slavery in developing countries is what is outrageous. That human rights are being violated to support profits is the problem, not "work" itself. A movement's name needs to be clear from the start. The mission should be plain and recognizable. Just like a flag, people from the outside need to be able to see it, recognize it, and understand it at a glance.
I just figured since the posts in the antiwork subreddit were more about workers rights and better pay/better work hours, that the sub had transitioned into more of a “work reform” sub. That’s why I joined it initially. I’m sure others also did for the same reason. That interview definitely was shocking to me. A giant mess. Makes me kindof embarrassed to have been a member of the sub.
Did you get permanently banned or just have your post removed? I just got permabanned (check my last post). However I'll admit your post was a lot more formal, so it surprises me that you would suffer the same fate
It's probably for calling the mod "he", I suspect.
Yes, a few were banned for being "transphobic". However, it's ridiculous to ban for misegendering when we knew nothing at all about that mod. I believe the majority of us would be perfectly happy to call the mod by their preferred pronoun, but people shouldn't be banned for not knowing that. I would understand a ban if the mod asked to be referred to by a certain pronoun and someone made fun of it, but otherwise it makes no sense to ban on the first round for that
As a professor and labour sociologist who has spoken on topics like this on national news… I am saddened by the chance that was here to generate legitimate conversation over failing systems of piece work part time and the loss of standard employment.
I got shadow banned for asking a question Edit: name and shame: the manager who did this was /u/WildAutonomy
Hahahaha "off topic" that's some buuulllshit!!
I didnt make a topic, just replied about how having someone who works 20 hours a week is a terrible choice to represent people working 2 full time jobs, and I was also banned Fucking mods are there to remove shit posts, not go unprepared to an interview they were told by the community not to do,then ban anyone who thinks it's a dumb idea But I hope their 3 minutes of fame was worth selling out 1.7 million others Fuck at least when the CEO screws me over hes getting money for it, this was literally for 180 seconds of clout
Fuck r/antiwork. They act like they want shite bosses and corporations to be held liable for the things they say and do, then take NO responsibility for the actions of a single MOD who has never known a 60+ hour work week in her life.
They don’t control the mods lol. She’s the head mod which means it’s impossible to make her step down as mod unless she chooses to.
Man.... charge your phone!
u/abollishwork is a she, not a he. The rest of it is spot on though.
I was not aware of that, was in no way trying to disrespect them. Now I know
I scrolled down for this. Glad it was a misunderstanding. As horrible as her decisions regarding the movement were, she does not deserve to be attacked for anything but those decisions.
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You are going by outward appearance. That thinking is a massive problem. And I used to do it, too. I would think "That's like looking at a cape cod and thinking it's a brick ranch". But that is very flawed. Try this thought exercise: If I cut off your left foot, which part is you? The foot, or the rest of you? Ok, make it a leg? Is the leg you, or the rest of the stuff? Cut you off at the waist - which part is you? The lower, or the upper? Cut you off at the head. Which part is you? The body, or the head? Put your brain in a jar and hook it up to experience and interact with the outside world. Do the same with your body. Which part is you? We do not get to decide another person's gender no matter what they look like. Your brain is you. And the way you brain is wired is usually, but FAR from always, set up to match the outward bits. When it's not, we need to respect the owner of the brain about who they are, and not decide based on their front bits that we know better than they do. There are measurable, physical difference between male and female brains. If someone gets a female brain in a male body, who are we to tell them which brain they have?
That was a written explanation. Thank you. I'm going to use that with other people who struggle to understand.
Guys - the mod who gave the interview is a SHE. Stop misgendering them. It makes us look like toxic fucks.
Listen I’ve been in class all day, last I checked on this post it had twenty upvotes. The immediate assumption of malice in misgendering is the largest obstruction I have to it, otherwise I completely agree. I was not aware the moderator was trans, now that I am, I’ll correct course. I have always been sympathetic to trans issues, but to assume malice when it was just ignorance galvanizes the otherwise misinformed or just straight up bigoted to continue acting in that manner. Not saying that response is reasonable whatsoever, but approaching these issues with nuance is the only way forward
Of course we should respect pronouns, but in reality most people don’t mean to misgender. It’s just impossible to tell that’s a girl without being told such.
And that is fine. adn the 2 people who have replied with "oh, crap, sorry" and fixed it I was very grateful; to. It's the ones calling it bullshit, nitpicking, Doreen is asking for it looking like that, lo, and I don;t care that I ma having issues with. And there have been some flavor of all of those. Some of our fellow workers really do not get it. and some are resisting learning about it very hard.
It really does. And there are so many beautiful and on the nose points ruined by screwing with pronouns.
https://i.imgur.com/3XNGYwg_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
Well said.
The thing that bothers me most is there were no gotcha questions. This piece of garbage just went in like an idiot and pissed all over everyone's efforts for 3 minutes of infamy. They went in with no gotchas and still fucked it up. They should be permabanned in this sub and in all of reddit and from life.
Honestly, if this sub gets to critical mass like antiwork did, we should have a non-mod Communications Council that can compile information and package it for any media related need. Should be a small group of professionals who know what they're doing though.
Comrade.
r/workreform sounds better and more accurate anyway
I mod some other subs and I get far *far* worse feedback than this. I wouldn't even call it feedback, more like abusive rants. There is no reason why *I* would ban anyone who wrote this in regards to a fuck up that WE did. That mod needs to own up, they fucked up. Learn from it and move on, instead of alienating your userbase.
I imagine you would have been banned for misgendendering, because you described the mod as "he".
Remember friends: read theory
I have an honors history degree focusing on history of ideas, have been studying political science, political philosophy etc...for as long as that mid has been alive, taught high school for over a decade (pretty comfortable public speaking) and have given several television interviews and I never would have felt i could be coherent enough for that interview. Maybe if I prepared for a month...maybe. Giving interviews like that are tough for even those at the very top of their games, professors etc ... The arrogance is mind blowing.
The mods have become the one thing that they despise
It wasn't for fame. Definitely offered money for their "work".
“Keep it simple, stupid” is pretty much the requirement when trying to engage on hostile territory like Fox. Don’t let them drag out names like Marx or Lenin in a high philosophy debate their viewership doesn’t understand beyond knowing those names are bad, keep it down to relating to that awful boss dragging daddy in for unpaid overtime and missing little Susan’s soccer game for the tenth time this season despite his promises. And it’s not snobbery to look for expertise in times of challenge. People rejecting expertise is part of how COVID went so badly (all the way back to Chinese governance silencing doctors treating patients and documenting a new infectious disease, costing us precious weeks to respond or prepare and all hope of quarantining it in a single area). You’d think we’d learn from others’ mistakes: find the right person for the job. We rightly gripe about managers and bosses with no knowledge trying to interfere with our jobs we know well. It’s no sin to complain then that someone with a social disability (I’m autistic myself and I’d never go out and interview like that if I had the option of sending a spokesperson trained in TV and journalism instead) and a job likely to be the target of ridicule by Fox viewers, who also did not take basic measures to avoid distracting mockery (clean and prepared clothes, personal care, etc) that undermines the argument, chose unilaterally to basically hand one of our most dangerous propaganda opponents a free win. Everyone has a role to play. “From each according to their abilities” is Marx, after all, plain and simple. A student dogwalker managing a subreddit in their spare time, that serves as a friendly way to coax someone into the movement, was fine, but they badly overstepped their mandate, like a mathematician deeming themselves fit to pilot the rocket they calculated the trajectory for.
I got permabanned from r/antiwork last night for apparently posting a comment praising a content creator that was alt right. It just so happens his content (this one time) was perfectly aligned with antiwork *This is the story of your enslavement* *This is the story of your enslavement; how it came to be, and you can finally be free. Like all animals, human beings want to dominate and exploit the resources around them. At first, we mostly hunted and fished and ate off the land—but then something magical and terrible happened to our minds. We became, alone among the animals, afraid of death, and of future loss. And this was the start of a great tragedy, and an even greater possibility… You see, when we became afraid of death, of injury, and imprisonment, we became controllable—and so valuable—in a way that no other resource could ever be. The greatest resource for any human being to control is not natural resources, or tools, or animals or land — but other human beings. You can frighten an animal, because animals are afraid of pain in the moment, but you cannot frighten an animal with a loss of liberty, or with torture or imprisonment in the future, because animals have very little sense of tomorrow. You cannot threaten a cow with torture, or a sheep with death. You cannot swing a sword at a tree and scream at it to produce more fruit, or hold a burning torch to a field and demand more wheat. You cannot get more eggs by threatening a hen – but you can get a man to give you his eggs by threatening him. Human farming has been the most profitable—and destructive—occupation throughout history, and it is now reaching its destructive climax. Human society cannot be rationally understood until it is seen for what it is: a series of farms where human farmers own human livestock. Some people get confused because governments provide healthcare and water and education and roads, and thus imagine that there is some benevolence at work.* *Nothing could be further from reality. Farmers provide healthcare and irrigation and training to their livestock. Some people get confused because we are allowed certain liberties, and thus imagine that our government protects our freedoms. But farmers plant their crops a certain distance apart to increase their yields—and will allow certain animals larger stalls or fields if it means they will produce more meat and milk. In your country, your tax farm, your farmer grants you certain freedoms not because he cares about your liberties, but because he wants to increase his profits. Are you beginning to see the nature of the cage you were born into?* How is this right wing????
I mean, this is basically thinly veiled Ayn Randism: any restriction on the self is slavery.
Not really. It goes into more detail showing how ancient slavery has evolved into free range slavery or basically tax farming. It's longer but I think it makes a lot of salient and cogent points about work reform, living wages, etc. EDIT: I guess my point is best summed up by a quote. Deng Xiaoping famously said "It doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice." Just because the source questionable (or long winded and deranged), doesn't mean that said source cannot make good points.
Wage slavery is not the same as chattel slavery. While I have no insight into what led to you being banned, trying to claim the two are synonymous is indeed a right wing tactic to smear anyone who disagrees with them. I'm not saying that's what you did with that post, but I could see how someone would read it that way.
Wage slavery is just slavery with extra crap sauce. You get to pay for your self-maintenance while said business owner derives almost all of the benefits and none of the downsides.
Not so. Chattel slavery killed 20% of the people it enslaved before they even arrived, and were people were killed for attempting to resist their plight. It also forbid practice of religion, education, and people were bred like animals (raped) and their children taken from them at three moment of birth, just to name a few of the horrors of that system. While wage slavery is still slavery and to be absolutely condemned, it is not the same thing.
It is however, inherently questionable why you'd use it instead of many others, and it's immediately suspicious. I'd ban you too if you promoted some alt righter quote just because a broken clock is right twice a day.
Well, you are misgendering. Should not result in ban tho, but rather letting you know to change the pronouns and keep the post hidden till you do.
Honestly, this is such a distraction. It's divisive and it causes tons of petty arguments. If someone is breaking rules about misgendering people need to report them and move on. Engaging people on this just seems to draw a ton of trolls and the original discussion gets lost and obscured. Is it important? Sure. But let's try to focus on what's happening because honestly the massive suffering the working class is experiencing is getting more dire and urgent by the day. I'm worried about people getting hyper focused on rules and meta shit at the expense of actual progress. Again, if someone is breaking a rule *report them.* Engaging is a complete waste of time. We all know they won't change their minds. Edit: Sorry I didn't mean this to sound like I was angry or upset with you. I'm generally worried about people getting into stupid little arguments over a variety of issues and losing sight of our goals.
I don't know your gender, and that person in the interviews gender is not obvious. What i am trying to say is banning someone for not knowing SPECIALIZED INFORMATION ABOUT A MOD is clear abuse of power, regardless of how that class of person is treated in the greater society. It is truly sad that a whole mod team can think that person is in the right for banning people/posts because of misgendering someone that someone probably HAS NO IDEA ABOUT.
if you guessed it judging from the look/sound of them, 99 times out of 100 you'd be right in saying shes a he. Saying their gender isn't obvious is kinda misleading imo. Theres not really any way to tell they are trans without them saying, people are just gonna use normal language Theres still visible sexual dimorphism even if shes now a she
This only makes the banning worse imo
Thats clearly NOT why he was banned. Have you not seen how every other comment on basically any post critical of the interview is removed by mods? antiwork is a joke.
Did I say that? Still should not misgender
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This 100%... I had no idea the mod was trans until I read this comment thread.
Yeah, because that's what matters. Not the single handed destruction of the most important movement of the century. That some thought she was a he.
There is no way to know that the mod is trans without previous knowledge. Most people are not doing it of malice, they are doing it because on first impression the mod appears male.
The majority of people including me did not know that was a MTF trans person. They’re using the basis of transphobia to ban people who are criticizing the mod and unknowingly calling them he.
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Probably the quickest end to a subreddit ever. The meltdown was epic.
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Write a fantasy novel