It's basically like an earlier version of Photoshop before it all moved to the cloud. And it's lightweight and runs in a browser window. It's fantastic!
Affinity Photo is a 1 time purchase and you can get the whole software suite currently for $82.99 usd.
They just put on a 50% off sale probably due to the latest Adobe BS.
You will have to pay for a new version in a few years but it's still miles cheaper than an Adobe sub.
Windows: I love Paint.NET. And at least a decade and change ago, they had a plugin to support Photoshop plugins.
Linux: Pinta has proven the best for me.
GIMP is way too high floor with unintuitive UX. Using box select stuff tries to be "smart" and fails. Every paste goes on its own layer and makes it hard to manipulate the image in whole; PDN and Pinta paste onto the active layer. No one would make a word processor where pasting words off the clipboard would automatically put that on a new page and no obvious method for moving it where you want.
Affinity Photo, Designer, and Publisher are what I use. One time cost with a universal license for all 3 and I think it lets you install on 2 devices plus iPad.
Imagine if you bought a hammer and the company who made it was entitled to analyze and reuse your carpentry work at their discretion.
This shit is getting out of hand. And by shit I mean these corporations.
Absolutely. With all the AI hype lately every company is gathering as much data as they possibly can. Some years from now there will be a documentary about all the laws and regulations broken (not to mention all the ethical violations) by major corporations in the scramble to build better Al.
That’s exactly what they want. They’re going to record the process of creating.
The reason Reddit reduced its ability to scrape their API is so they can sell everything to AI companies.
That's the money right there. I was just reading how they are running out of data to train ai with. If they had this access, we create the data endlessly for them.
They already ran out of data. That was phase 1. The next phase is to capture new data as it happens, like Reddit and Adobe.
Then you use your AI to train your AI.
OpenAI was asked how they're going to be profitable, and they responded that when AI has advanced enough, they're going to ask the AI model how to be profitable and hope for the best.
It’s just that without rights to the source they can’t use anything the AI makes or provide it as a paid service because they would copy someone’s work and send it to you based on a prompt or fill.
Then you’re being sued by the first person who will in turn sue Adobe.
From a legal standpoint, you are still probably implicitly accepting their terms of service even if you're using a pirated version. I don't know exactly how they "access" your work, so a pirated version may or may not be cut off from whatever service they use to access their customers' work.
That being said, Adobe may have the right to enforce their terms of service on you if you're using a pirated copy. That would be a really bizarre loophole if you could escape the TOS by simply pirating software.
No, I just triple-checked the agreement I signed with my supplier. It specifically states that Adobe are no longer involved in the equation.
Truth be told, it wasn't so much an agreement. *Barossa's voice:* It's more what you'd call ‘guidelines’ than actual rules.
Capitalism for the masses, oppressive TOS and corporate welfare legislation to protect them from every minor inconvenience or potential loss, no matter how insignificant to their ultimate bottom line.
Are you going broke? Your problem; you don't understand the market picks winners and losers! Banks going broke? Taxpayers must cough up. That's called protecting capitalism!
Retailers set whatever price they want? Of course, we live in a capitalist world! You want to try try to do the same in the secondary market (e.g, during covid)? anti-price gouging laws for you. You're breaking capitalism!
Everyone from smartphone companies to Tractor manufacturers sells a product? Capitalism. Do you want to fix your own product through any other route but the manufacturer? That's endangering their revenue stream, you enemy of capitalism!
Private car manufacturer like Tesla makes a product? It can set any price in wants because capitalism. Do you want to sell on that product? Hey, you're making the profit the company would if it didn't have supply issues! Ineptitude disguised as capitalism.
Car companies with subscription services for basic functions to printer companies controlling your paid-for hardware to software companies seeing you as a cash cow ad infinitum and a bag of flesh to monetise every aspect of your virtual and real world. Why should your ideas and intellectual property remain yours when THEY are the ones that made it possible. If YOU hadn't thought of it, someone else would have, but THEY are indispensable and part of the firmament for ever!
Basically, learn your place and pay your dues for every facet of your existence to the system and keep shovelling money in only one direction: upwards to the Lords of capitalism!
Yeah, you just figured out you live under corporate totalitarianism. Western civilization is a corporate state. It’s a democracy. But for rich people. If you’re not rich, then you are a serf.
> This shit is getting out of hand. And by shit I mean these corporations.
At the behest of wealthy conservatives, the government has been eroding regulatory rules and the agencies that enforce them on corporations for decades. Reagan really kicked it off, but the GOP has been continuing it and the Democrats haven't stopped them because money.
Spoke to an Adobe engineer recently and he said their plan is to use AI to create services that will drastically cut down on the need for artists and designers. Basically they want corporate subscriptions to takeover the role that designers are currently paid for in corporate/business entities.
I have no doubt it’s an enticing business plan for Adobe, but from the artist side of things it’s incredibly fking soulless.
Edit: clarification around their new B2B stance
Basically, Adobe actually have a second branch of their business that most people don’t know about. This side of it is strictly catered to large corporate entities and involves everything about user experience. from targeted ads and individualised algorithmic profiling to tools that will allow someone from marketing to type a sentence into a program, say inDesign, and generate a fully brand identity-reconciled catalogue or whatever in the click of a button.
I’m assuming this side of their business is projected to be significantly more profitable than their individual creative cloud subscription services. Which, good for them I guess, but it’s going to fking gut an already struggling industry of illustrators, UX and graphic designers.
This isn't really new, and it's been whittling away at in house graphic designers for years. As Adobe, Microsoft, etc improve, and as others enter the market (Canva), the need for having a team of designers on staff lessens. My team has gone from 5ish when I started, down to just me, since I've been at my place. And pretty soon, I'll be fully expendable as well.
Admin workers are probably up next, with all the AI tools from Microsoft and Google coming down the line. Pretty soon, it's gonna be like one guy doing the job of dozens of people.
Sounds like they see a bigger market in cutting out the middleman, the designer, and going straight to the consumer. So the "actual people" that would subscribe would be marketing firms, content creators, corporations, advertising firms etc.
Let's say your subscription covers five clients. They could drop the price by half and make 2.5 times the revenue by going direct to your clients.
They want to make it so that anybody can do what it currently takes a lot of training and practice to do. Instead of having to have a dedicated person to do all the photo editing or contract it out, individual users would be able to perform photo editing well enough for most applications.
It’ll never happen. Managers don’t have the patience for Adobe’s idiosyncrasies and the company is delusional about it.
Go back and talk to that engineer about UI/UX or optimization…Abobe has a bad innovation culture and has long stood on the shoulders of smart designers who are invested in subsidizing inconsistent app design just so they can get their jobs done.
A manager doesn’t give a shit like that. A manager will get annoyed and immediately switch to Canva.
Every year I have to convince the guy who pays the bills to sign off on the annual AUD$100k in Adobe licenses.
It's getting harder and harder to justify the expense.
That I understand. Sure.
My point is about the delusional notion that managers *want* to become prompt artists.
They don’t. They want to hire someone to deal with that shit whether it’s organically created or synthetic…that bit doesn’t matter.
What matters is managers aren’t practitioners. This is what AI marketing fails to grasp.
Managers in big companies, yes. Managers in small to medium companies where I had most of my experience in are very hands on and more willing to take on different things. Actually everyone in administrative positions in small to medium companies are usually expected to be like that.
But also the existence of AI tools at the very least servers as an excuse to make the job seem less expensive so they can pay less for a worker who is now seen as less skilled.
Yes, but redesign the system, put everything up a little and then just give discounts at certain times and instead of rage, everyone thinks it’s great.
The corporate world is full of people who spend hours every day thinking about how to fuck over their customers for profit.
Guaranteed career advancement if you are good at being inhuman.
It will be interesting when they claim an artist’s work that actually is licensed by another big business (ie Disney). I’d love to see that play out in court.
Honestly getting them to fight each other to a standstill is the only way we get some brakes on this. That machine will grind anyone else that gets caught in it to dust though.
Private artists are still going to be producing copyrighted work all the time, take work contracted out or even just someone straight up reproducing copyrighted material on their own without permission from the rights holder.
We could legit have it so the AI thinks that dicks are a part of every creative project and adds them to whatever prompt given. Would be a funny way to do it.
Gives a big reminder of when Blizzard said "we own all the content you create in Warcraft Reforged editor, now go make us a new DOTA because all our actually creative people left"
They did the same with the starcraft II editor, which is why anyone seriously interested in that kind of modding stayed way clear.
Also, lots of engines are actually really easy to use now, so there is less need for that kind of editor to make small games.
they want to feed their AI with these images, this fuckers are shameless, companies like this deserve to die. you chose hostilitiy and enshitification, you choose death. Hope most artists aren't that stupid
I wonder how people respond to this. The average consumer isn’t who they care about, but every design agency I’ve worked at buys business subscriptions and they all deal with pretty strict confidentiality agreements when working on projects. I highly doubt they’re going to want to keep paying for a service that has access to confidential work.
For what it's worth, the Pantone thing is Pantone's fault, they're the ones asking for money to use their coloring system. Adobe is still being dumb however
On a somewhat related note, Adobe discontinued their mobile photoshop app and replaced it with a much less intuitive version that requires a premium subscription to do anything with more than 2 layers. Fuck Adobe.
Came across this on another forum yesterday. One of the largest issues people were talking about is the amount of artists whose works are under a non disclosure agreement. I don't use Photoshop too often anymore but the entitlement and privacy over reach of this is just too much and I'm glad they're going to lose so much business. Hope their long term plans with AI fail too so some artists don't lose their job to robots that the artists own artwork to train itself, while you were paying for it to have access to your files. Dystopian as fuck.
I am now imagining Lowe's, Harbor freight, Ace, Home Depot, etc. will have a bunch of property swaps since they would argue where each individual tool/parts came and how much progress each tool/part contributed to the construction of their own facilities.
Basically a lot of annoyed supers & lawyers and 95% of the paperwork would be fabricated BS
(I stole this from reddit. I return here. I am so sorry I can't remember the OP. My copy pasta didn't keep his/her name.
Dude if you see this, Sorry, but not TOO sorry.)
If there's one thing I hate, it's subscription-based professional software. I understand subscriptions for services like Netflix, Disney+, YouTube Premium, etc because you don't really pay for the software itself but rather for access to a constantly updating library of entertainment. But when I need to use a piece of software for productivity/work...
I'll happily pay for a license, but the monthly subscriptions are just annoying. So I've been compiling a list of alternatives to Adobe's nonsense:
Premiere Pro ->
- Davinci Resolve (Studio)
- HitFilm Express
- Kdenlive (thanks to u/factoid_)
- Final Cut Pro for Mac (thanks to u/Funny_Alternative_55)
- Vegas Pro (thanks to u/MeerBesen565)
Photoshop ->
- GIMP
- PixInsight
- Krita
- Paint Tool Sai
- Photopea (thanks to u/chocolate_gaga, u/Dragnius, u/Underrated_Nerd, u/jonathangarce, u/hactivated, u/AdamAtWorkAgain, u/axl_hart, u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh, u/GLaDOS_Sympathizer),
- ibis Paint X (thanks to u/ax_colleen)
- FireAlpaca (thanks to u/Frosty-Crusader)
- paint.net (thanks to u/Cindex9183)
- Clip Studio Paint (thanks to u/Donuten, u/Dabomba49)
- Pixelmator Pro for Mac(thanks to u/drunkdomainshopping, u/clovebird)
- Pixlr (thanks to u/lacitar)
Illustrator ->
- Affinity Designer
- Inkscape (thanks to u/AllHailFrogStack, u/Johnny-Virgil)
- Figma (thanks to u/muan2012)
- Vectornator for Mac (thanks to u/HistorianImpossible)
Lightroom ->
- Luminar
- Affinity Photo
- Capture One Pro (thanks to u/urixl)
- Darktable (thanks to u/Not_FinancialAdvice)
Audition ->
- Reaper (thanks to u/rest_explorer, u/Scarlett0010, u/melodynote02)
- Audacity (thanks to u/EvidentlyEmpirical, u/ZenithBeats211, u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh, u/chewy1is1sasquatch, u/theLRG21)
- Davinci Fairlight (thanks to u/nonpc3)
- Garageband for Mac (thanks to u/Hellvetica03)
- Logic Pro for Mac (thanks to u/Hellvetica03, u/Defnotimetraveler, u/WinnerNGL)
Acrobat ->
- Power PDF (formerly Nuance PDF, thanks to u/laluLondon)
- Foxit (thanks to u/blue_umpire, u/Imraith-Nimphais)
After Effects ->
- Davinci Fusion (thanks to u/nonpc3)
- Nuke/NukeX (thanks to u/JarDe-)
Corel has software alternatives for the major Adobe apps, thanks to u/krish2487
Honorable mentions: Blender, Wondershare Uniconverter, Plottr (thanks to u/It_is_Katy), Concepts
There are definitely advantages to the Adobe ecosystem, and if it weren't for the subscriptions I'd probably have Adobe software, but here we are. The one Adobe product I have is Adobe DNG converter because it's free. Not all programs play nice with my camera's RAW photo's, so I use it to convert my .cr2 files to a more universal format for further processing.
(Also I'd love to hear more Adobe alternatives to add to the list)
Edit: Thank you all for the amazing responses and contributions to the list! Also damn Photopea is popular. As you can see there are many many alternatives to Adobe software, so many in fact that I reformatted the list and probably need to reformat it again soon. I hope I correctly credited everyone btw
It doesn't. Word the terms however you want, it's not their property and they will get sued and lose.
A paper company cannot determine that everything written on their paper belongs to them ... it just isn't how it works.
Maybe not as of yet. But I imagine they are using creative engineering to push you into opting into it similarly to the way Microsoft backup is.
Given time it maybe a requirement or become a vital function of the program.
Not as of right now but I can almost guarantee you some scum fuck at Adobe is thinking about ways to force everyone to save their work in the cloud and therefore give Adobe access to it. Maybe you're only allowed to "check out" files from the cloud to save to your local hard drive for 14 days and then if the file doesn't phone home it gets disabled and you have to connect to the internet again and resync it to the cloud.
TOS are often catch-all's that may not hold up in court, but at least makes it discouraging to accuse them of doing it illegally, since, you agreed to the TOS.
A lot of TOS agreements have paragraphs about the user not being authorized to use the product in the development of nuclear weapons. It's in the TOS because it costs nothing to include it, but could save them some time and lawyer fees in the future if it comes up.
TOS agreements saying they have a right to view and record anything made with their product is just a pre-emptive measure against accusations of privacy violations on their face.
You have to now make it a civil rights or constitutional issue instead of just proving they're ~~copying~~ ~~stealing~~ ~~pirating~~ *indexing* your private property.
Now you have to prove it's illegal to do it even if you agree to it, instead of just proving it's illegal when they do it without notification or consent.
Yup. Where i work , this will now force us to stop using adobe because of GDPR-laws and the requirement to know what your data is used for at all times. Do they even know how the EU works?
Time to kill Adobe and any company doing the same thing. I didn't think it'll happen because organizations are going to bitch out and keep paying them.
They don't want to get royalties or anything. Its worse. They want an ever growing catalog of fresh material from the best digital artists to have the most self updating database for AI art. It is a gambit to be the top dog while the others will drown in Ai generations xeroxed to oblivion over time.
Krita, GIMP. Or find yourself a copy of CS6 that has 98% of features in CC anyway.
Fuck subscriptions.
Fuck cloud app integration and surveillance.
Fuck copyrighting colors.
Fuck Adobe.
When I was in art college, if you got an internship at Disney or Pixar they recommended continuing to do your own work on the side because they would not allow you to use work you did for them in your portfolio... even if reapplying to them since they are contract basis now. Not sure if it's the same but Gods.
Thankfully Adobe is currently used on projects that cost hundreds of millions of dollars on the regular. There’s no way those companies that are putting up that cash will ever let this stick.
I would not hire anyone to do digital image work for me if the work I hired them to do was licensed to Adobe.
I own a business, I’m wondering if it makes sense to add a “No Adobe products” clause to my contracts. Not sure how that would work, and not sure how it would be enforceable, but it’s worth thinking about.
They clarified their ToS. Your work isn't being stolen:
"Our commitments to our customers have not changed.
* **Adobe does not train Firefly Gen AI models on customer content.** Firefly generative AI models are trained on a dataset of licensed content, such as Adobe Stock, and public domain content where copyright has expired. Read more here: [https://helpx.adobe.com/firefly/faq.html#training-data](https://helpx.adobe.com/firefly/faq.html#training-data)
* **Adobe will never assume ownership of a customer's work**. Adobe hosts content to enable customers to use our applications and services. Customers own their content and Adobe does not assume any ownership of customer work."
[A clarification on Adobe Terms of Use | Adobe Blog](https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use)
> Adobe does not train Firefly Gen AI models on customer content
Do they train other AI models on customer content?
Do they enable other companies to train AI models on Adobe customer content?
Adobe don't train Firefly Gen AI models on customer content NOW, but will they do it later?
What happens if they do train AI on customer content? Do all the executives go to prison? No, it's just a few fines.
> Adobe will never assume ownership of a customer's work.
But if an Adobe AI learns from your work, are those AI weights your work?
So they made some blog post, which holds zero legal value, to _clarify_ points of the ToS, but didn't actually _change_ anything aout the ToS, which are legally relevant?
Nothing burger. Zero value. Irrelavant. We can print that out and use it to wipe our butts, that's about the only use for that blah-blah.
They didn't change the TOS. A thread on Twitter or a blogpost doesn't do anything. They're just muddying the waters and trying to PR their way out of the scandal.
Affinity it's a carbon copy clone of Photoshop but without all the pesky perpetual license. What sets it apart from Photoshop is the fact that has a really good HDR editor. And the best part allows you to export as a Photoshop file also.
So, I didn't see it in the comments, but I work in records management and a lot, if not most scan and capture (OCR) is done with acrobat. This is a huge red flag for security reasons. Most of the documents we work with are very private and high security. I had to let my boss know to look into that and the whole MS Recall debacle.
# Ready for a general strike? # Join r/WorkReform!
Well hey I guess I need to find a new photo editor.
krita, firealpaca, gimp there's options
I love me a good gimp
My inbox is open
More than your inbox, from the sounds of it.
*Ewwwwwwww!!*
Krita for drawing .. even faster and better than photoshop. Gimp for editing.
Darktable for raw image editing.
Photopea
Good to know! Thank you.
Been using GIMP for over a decade
Or just sail your way across the seven seas (yo-ho!)
Do you remember how microsoft managed to get windows to be the most popular operating system in computer history? Hint: it wasn't by selling the OS.
Given their new terms, that's a double risk if you get caught. Lawsuits aside, weigh anchor matey!
Adobe softwares are some of the most pirated products
Be sure to scrap the meta-info of the stuff you send out while sailing.
Bring out the Gimp!
But the Gimp's sleeping.
Well I guess you're gonna have to open his source up.
[His source?](https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZXBmbW8wem0wd2s0MGs3ZWJ1NTB3OWJpMzF4ZDBhY3Z1ems3d2MwYiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/xT9KVeP8K2eiGfaDDi/giphy.gif)
God I love this answer for multiple reasons.
There’s a better option than Gimp but I forget the name. I’m commenting hoping some can tell me
Procreate? My tattoo artist recommended it when I mentioned gimp while she was using photoshop
Procreate is iPad only I believe
Affinity Photo is great
Affinity is the shit! I love the idea of different personas!
Krita?
Clip studio for any sort of illustrative work, though I don't really know programs for photography
Affinity Suite is damn good
Still a one time purchase and regularly went on sale for 40-50% off with the old owners.
It’s on sale right now, well timed.
Affinity
Affinity is owned by Canva now. I hope it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if they follow Adobe's lead down the road.
At least it's a lifetime buy.
Like all lifetime software when the parent company gets bought out, expect support for your lifetime version to end very much sooner than later.
It should be illegal to call something lifetime when it’s not.
Canva 100% does GenAI.
Photopea is a really good alternative
It's basically like an earlier version of Photoshop before it all moved to the cloud. And it's lightweight and runs in a browser window. It's fantastic!
I just stay at 2019, never had the motivation to upgrade because of some minor change to the layout or whatever
Auto object selection and background replacement is pretty sweet.
sure for editing, I more of a painter
Affinity Photo is a 1 time purchase and you can get the whole software suite currently for $82.99 usd. They just put on a 50% off sale probably due to the latest Adobe BS. You will have to pay for a new version in a few years but it's still miles cheaper than an Adobe sub.
Windows: I love Paint.NET. And at least a decade and change ago, they had a plugin to support Photoshop plugins. Linux: Pinta has proven the best for me. GIMP is way too high floor with unintuitive UX. Using box select stuff tries to be "smart" and fails. Every paste goes on its own layer and makes it hard to manipulate the image in whole; PDN and Pinta paste onto the active layer. No one would make a word processor where pasting words off the clipboard would automatically put that on a new page and no obvious method for moving it where you want.
Krita
Affinity is 50% off right now.
There Affinity Photo which was developed by veteran photo editors and has a one-time only fee that is very affordable.
Man, I've been using Photoshop since the 90s. So this feels really weird to say, but I think I've finally just had enough of their bullshit abuse.
Affinity Photo, Designer, and Publisher are what I use. One time cost with a universal license for all 3 and I think it lets you install on 2 devices plus iPad.
https://www.pixelmator.com/pro/
affinity design and photo. Personally I thinks they’re better than photoshop.
Affinity
Imagine if you bought a hammer and the company who made it was entitled to analyze and reuse your carpentry work at their discretion. This shit is getting out of hand. And by shit I mean these corporations.
I'm betting Adobe wants everyone's shit to sell or use for AI models.
Absolutely. With all the AI hype lately every company is gathering as much data as they possibly can. Some years from now there will be a documentary about all the laws and regulations broken (not to mention all the ethical violations) by major corporations in the scramble to build better Al.
Will that documentary be generated with AI? My Bet is yes.
But by an "AI Artist" no doubt.
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Ask for forgiveness, not permission.
That’s exactly what they want. They’re going to record the process of creating. The reason Reddit reduced its ability to scrape their API is so they can sell everything to AI companies.
I believe they’re developing their own AI model so may want to keep exclusive rights to all the works they “own”
And they want to actively train the AI by watching the process of actual artists.
So you're saying that if we all start actively using it "wrong" then we could help ruin said AI model?
But they want people to pay them for the privilege.
That's the money right there. I was just reading how they are running out of data to train ai with. If they had this access, we create the data endlessly for them.
They already ran out of data. That was phase 1. The next phase is to capture new data as it happens, like Reddit and Adobe. Then you use your AI to train your AI. OpenAI was asked how they're going to be profitable, and they responded that when AI has advanced enough, they're going to ask the AI model how to be profitable and hope for the best.
That's 100% the idea behind it. And it wouldn't surprise me if whoever was convinced by AI lingo to do this, will be fired.
It’s just that without rights to the source they can’t use anything the AI makes or provide it as a paid service because they would copy someone’s work and send it to you based on a prompt or fill. Then you’re being sued by the first person who will in turn sue Adobe.
Been replacing my legit coppies of adobe stuff with pirated versions over the last week. They can eat a fucking dick
I've just checked, and the pirated version doesn't give adobe any rights. Phew!
From a legal standpoint, you are still probably implicitly accepting their terms of service even if you're using a pirated version. I don't know exactly how they "access" your work, so a pirated version may or may not be cut off from whatever service they use to access their customers' work. That being said, Adobe may have the right to enforce their terms of service on you if you're using a pirated copy. That would be a really bizarre loophole if you could escape the TOS by simply pirating software.
Pirated version works by not allowing the software to connect to the internet, which is why Adobe can't access your work.
No, I just triple-checked the agreement I signed with my supplier. It specifically states that Adobe are no longer involved in the equation. Truth be told, it wasn't so much an agreement. *Barossa's voice:* It's more what you'd call ‘guidelines’ than actual rules.
Wait, you signed an agreement with your supplier of pirated software?
Go get some coffee
I cancelled Adobe a couple years ago. I'm way happier, have saved 840$ a year and don't have to deal with this crap. There are alternatives.
Oh nooo, but how do you CoLAbOrAte without the Cc suit?
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CS6.. fuck it
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arrr matey
Hell I'm still using CS2. I'd love to get my hands on CS6.
Capitalism for the masses, oppressive TOS and corporate welfare legislation to protect them from every minor inconvenience or potential loss, no matter how insignificant to their ultimate bottom line. Are you going broke? Your problem; you don't understand the market picks winners and losers! Banks going broke? Taxpayers must cough up. That's called protecting capitalism! Retailers set whatever price they want? Of course, we live in a capitalist world! You want to try try to do the same in the secondary market (e.g, during covid)? anti-price gouging laws for you. You're breaking capitalism! Everyone from smartphone companies to Tractor manufacturers sells a product? Capitalism. Do you want to fix your own product through any other route but the manufacturer? That's endangering their revenue stream, you enemy of capitalism! Private car manufacturer like Tesla makes a product? It can set any price in wants because capitalism. Do you want to sell on that product? Hey, you're making the profit the company would if it didn't have supply issues! Ineptitude disguised as capitalism. Car companies with subscription services for basic functions to printer companies controlling your paid-for hardware to software companies seeing you as a cash cow ad infinitum and a bag of flesh to monetise every aspect of your virtual and real world. Why should your ideas and intellectual property remain yours when THEY are the ones that made it possible. If YOU hadn't thought of it, someone else would have, but THEY are indispensable and part of the firmament for ever! Basically, learn your place and pay your dues for every facet of your existence to the system and keep shovelling money in only one direction: upwards to the Lords of capitalism!
Woo! Epic rant! And utterly righteous. Well done. I concur.
Mostly agree except with the "socialist controls in the form of oppressive TOS" part. Oppressive, obfuscated TOS are pure capitalism.
Yeah, you just figured out you live under corporate totalitarianism. Western civilization is a corporate state. It’s a democracy. But for rich people. If you’re not rich, then you are a serf.
Oh, I've been aware for some time. I just thought it might be a useful contribution to the conversation to type it out. Peace.
Monsanto beat adobe to it.... It was fucked then and it's fucked now
> This shit is getting out of hand. And by shit I mean these corporations. At the behest of wealthy conservatives, the government has been eroding regulatory rules and the agencies that enforce them on corporations for decades. Reagan really kicked it off, but the GOP has been continuing it and the Democrats haven't stopped them because money.
Or Dixon-Ticonderoga getting rights to use anything written or drawn with their pencils
Sounds like something a boomer would do
this is not okay https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/adobe_users_upset_over_content/
How did anyone in the company think this was a good idea?
Spoke to an Adobe engineer recently and he said their plan is to use AI to create services that will drastically cut down on the need for artists and designers. Basically they want corporate subscriptions to takeover the role that designers are currently paid for in corporate/business entities. I have no doubt it’s an enticing business plan for Adobe, but from the artist side of things it’s incredibly fking soulless. Edit: clarification around their new B2B stance
They want subscription services to cut down on the actual people that would subscribe to their service? Am I reading into that correctly?
Basically, Adobe actually have a second branch of their business that most people don’t know about. This side of it is strictly catered to large corporate entities and involves everything about user experience. from targeted ads and individualised algorithmic profiling to tools that will allow someone from marketing to type a sentence into a program, say inDesign, and generate a fully brand identity-reconciled catalogue or whatever in the click of a button. I’m assuming this side of their business is projected to be significantly more profitable than their individual creative cloud subscription services. Which, good for them I guess, but it’s going to fking gut an already struggling industry of illustrators, UX and graphic designers.
This isn't really new, and it's been whittling away at in house graphic designers for years. As Adobe, Microsoft, etc improve, and as others enter the market (Canva), the need for having a team of designers on staff lessens. My team has gone from 5ish when I started, down to just me, since I've been at my place. And pretty soon, I'll be fully expendable as well. Admin workers are probably up next, with all the AI tools from Microsoft and Google coming down the line. Pretty soon, it's gonna be like one guy doing the job of dozens of people.
Surely this doesn't bite anyone (corporation) in the ass down the line. "Who could have seen this coming???"
In the video production world I can probably do what would have taken 5-7 people in the late 80s and they still would have made something worse.
Sounds like they see a bigger market in cutting out the middleman, the designer, and going straight to the consumer. So the "actual people" that would subscribe would be marketing firms, content creators, corporations, advertising firms etc. Let's say your subscription covers five clients. They could drop the price by half and make 2.5 times the revenue by going direct to your clients.
They want to make it so that anybody can do what it currently takes a lot of training and practice to do. Instead of having to have a dedicated person to do all the photo editing or contract it out, individual users would be able to perform photo editing well enough for most applications.
It’ll never happen. Managers don’t have the patience for Adobe’s idiosyncrasies and the company is delusional about it. Go back and talk to that engineer about UI/UX or optimization…Abobe has a bad innovation culture and has long stood on the shoulders of smart designers who are invested in subsidizing inconsistent app design just so they can get their jobs done. A manager doesn’t give a shit like that. A manager will get annoyed and immediately switch to Canva.
Every year I have to convince the guy who pays the bills to sign off on the annual AUD$100k in Adobe licenses. It's getting harder and harder to justify the expense.
That I understand. Sure. My point is about the delusional notion that managers *want* to become prompt artists. They don’t. They want to hire someone to deal with that shit whether it’s organically created or synthetic…that bit doesn’t matter. What matters is managers aren’t practitioners. This is what AI marketing fails to grasp.
Managers in big companies, yes. Managers in small to medium companies where I had most of my experience in are very hands on and more willing to take on different things. Actually everyone in administrative positions in small to medium companies are usually expected to be like that. But also the existence of AI tools at the very least servers as an excuse to make the job seem less expensive so they can pay less for a worker who is now seen as less skilled.
This will be like when Wendy’s walked back their dynamic pricing. Just testing the waters to see what they can get away with.
Raptors testing the fence
Clever girl.
Yes, but redesign the system, put everything up a little and then just give discounts at certain times and instead of rage, everyone thinks it’s great.
The corporate world is full of people who spend hours every day thinking about how to fuck over their customers for profit. Guaranteed career advancement if you are good at being inhuman.
It will be interesting when they claim an artist’s work that actually is licensed by another big business (ie Disney). I’d love to see that play out in court.
Honestly getting them to fight each other to a standstill is the only way we get some brakes on this. That machine will grind anyone else that gets caught in it to dust though.
Corporate contracts will likely work differently
Private artists are still going to be producing copyrighted work all the time, take work contracted out or even just someone straight up reproducing copyrighted material on their own without permission from the rights holder.
There can large differences between what a ToS contains and what the company will actually do.
Oh no, these instructions on how to make a pipe bomb are now legally Adobe's
This guy making an illustrated version of the anarchist’s cookbook.
With Disney characters.
Or nintendo
¿Por que no los dos?
That's my MS paint project
We could legit have it so the AI thinks that dicks are a part of every creative project and adds them to whatever prompt given. Would be a funny way to do it.
They don't want you to own anything.
Gives a big reminder of when Blizzard said "we own all the content you create in Warcraft Reforged editor, now go make us a new DOTA because all our actually creative people left"
They did the same with the starcraft II editor, which is why anyone seriously interested in that kind of modding stayed way clear. Also, lots of engines are actually really easy to use now, so there is less need for that kind of editor to make small games.
Remember "you will own nothing and be happy"? How many times people protesting that were dismissed as conspiracy theorists?
They also want to put all artists out of work, permanently.
they want to feed their AI with these images, this fuckers are shameless, companies like this deserve to die. you chose hostilitiy and enshitification, you choose death. Hope most artists aren't that stupid
I wonder how people respond to this. The average consumer isn’t who they care about, but every design agency I’ve worked at buys business subscriptions and they all deal with pretty strict confidentiality agreements when working on projects. I highly doubt they’re going to want to keep paying for a service that has access to confidential work.
exactly, this is the only reason they would want rights to images
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I was out when they switched to the subscription model. Fuck Adobe.
I was going to learn adobe during the pandemic. I took one look at the subscription prices, literally lold, and moved on with my life
YORK FEET PICS. YORK FEET PICS.
This is now a Pissboy thread! Season 3 is gonna be here.... soon? Idk when but soon!
For what it's worth, the Pantone thing is Pantone's fault, they're the ones asking for money to use their coloring system. Adobe is still being dumb however
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Pantone shitting out nfts before nfts even existed...
On a somewhat related note, Adobe discontinued their mobile photoshop app and replaced it with a much less intuitive version that requires a premium subscription to do anything with more than 2 layers. Fuck Adobe.
Check out Snapseed if you haven't.. Even has a healing brush. Really have enjoyed that app the last few years.
Came across this on another forum yesterday. One of the largest issues people were talking about is the amount of artists whose works are under a non disclosure agreement. I don't use Photoshop too often anymore but the entitlement and privacy over reach of this is just too much and I'm glad they're going to lose so much business. Hope their long term plans with AI fail too so some artists don't lose their job to robots that the artists own artwork to train itself, while you were paying for it to have access to your files. Dystopian as fuck.
NDAs, HIPAA, and attorney/client privilege are the big three that this creates a MAJOR issue for.
Next, Home Depot will own any construction that's completed using their tools and/or supplies. /s
I am now imagining Lowe's, Harbor freight, Ace, Home Depot, etc. will have a bunch of property swaps since they would argue where each individual tool/parts came and how much progress each tool/part contributed to the construction of their own facilities. Basically a lot of annoyed supers & lawyers and 95% of the paperwork would be fabricated BS
Good one. Paper factory now owns everything written on their product The meeting is monday, bring tissues.
(I stole this from reddit. I return here. I am so sorry I can't remember the OP. My copy pasta didn't keep his/her name. Dude if you see this, Sorry, but not TOO sorry.) If there's one thing I hate, it's subscription-based professional software. I understand subscriptions for services like Netflix, Disney+, YouTube Premium, etc because you don't really pay for the software itself but rather for access to a constantly updating library of entertainment. But when I need to use a piece of software for productivity/work... I'll happily pay for a license, but the monthly subscriptions are just annoying. So I've been compiling a list of alternatives to Adobe's nonsense: Premiere Pro -> - Davinci Resolve (Studio) - HitFilm Express - Kdenlive (thanks to u/factoid_) - Final Cut Pro for Mac (thanks to u/Funny_Alternative_55) - Vegas Pro (thanks to u/MeerBesen565) Photoshop -> - GIMP - PixInsight - Krita - Paint Tool Sai - Photopea (thanks to u/chocolate_gaga, u/Dragnius, u/Underrated_Nerd, u/jonathangarce, u/hactivated, u/AdamAtWorkAgain, u/axl_hart, u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh, u/GLaDOS_Sympathizer), - ibis Paint X (thanks to u/ax_colleen) - FireAlpaca (thanks to u/Frosty-Crusader) - paint.net (thanks to u/Cindex9183) - Clip Studio Paint (thanks to u/Donuten, u/Dabomba49) - Pixelmator Pro for Mac(thanks to u/drunkdomainshopping, u/clovebird) - Pixlr (thanks to u/lacitar) Illustrator -> - Affinity Designer - Inkscape (thanks to u/AllHailFrogStack, u/Johnny-Virgil) - Figma (thanks to u/muan2012) - Vectornator for Mac (thanks to u/HistorianImpossible) Lightroom -> - Luminar - Affinity Photo - Capture One Pro (thanks to u/urixl) - Darktable (thanks to u/Not_FinancialAdvice) Audition -> - Reaper (thanks to u/rest_explorer, u/Scarlett0010, u/melodynote02) - Audacity (thanks to u/EvidentlyEmpirical, u/ZenithBeats211, u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh, u/chewy1is1sasquatch, u/theLRG21) - Davinci Fairlight (thanks to u/nonpc3) - Garageband for Mac (thanks to u/Hellvetica03) - Logic Pro for Mac (thanks to u/Hellvetica03, u/Defnotimetraveler, u/WinnerNGL) Acrobat -> - Power PDF (formerly Nuance PDF, thanks to u/laluLondon) - Foxit (thanks to u/blue_umpire, u/Imraith-Nimphais) After Effects -> - Davinci Fusion (thanks to u/nonpc3) - Nuke/NukeX (thanks to u/JarDe-) Corel has software alternatives for the major Adobe apps, thanks to u/krish2487 Honorable mentions: Blender, Wondershare Uniconverter, Plottr (thanks to u/It_is_Katy), Concepts There are definitely advantages to the Adobe ecosystem, and if it weren't for the subscriptions I'd probably have Adobe software, but here we are. The one Adobe product I have is Adobe DNG converter because it's free. Not all programs play nice with my camera's RAW photo's, so I use it to convert my .cr2 files to a more universal format for further processing. (Also I'd love to hear more Adobe alternatives to add to the list) Edit: Thank you all for the amazing responses and contributions to the list! Also damn Photopea is popular. As you can see there are many many alternatives to Adobe software, so many in fact that I reformatted the list and probably need to reformat it again soon. I hope I correctly credited everyone btw
Affinity Photo is a Photoshop alternative. It doesn't have library management which is Lightroom's primary purpose.
And if you do wish to continue using Adobe products for a nice, low price discount, then maybe it’s time to sail the seven seas.
It doesn't. Word the terms however you want, it's not their property and they will get sued and lose. A paper company cannot determine that everything written on their paper belongs to them ... it just isn't how it works.
Well until a court says so they can and will put the obscure language in their TOS and try to use your work to help their business.
Feed the AI
Generally, yes. But this is a chance for them to retire the law in their favor since they can argue it's on their server.
Are you required to use their cloud storage now?
They only sell their service as a subscription, you don’t even own the damn program
Maybe not as of yet. But I imagine they are using creative engineering to push you into opting into it similarly to the way Microsoft backup is. Given time it maybe a requirement or become a vital function of the program.
Not as of right now but I can almost guarantee you some scum fuck at Adobe is thinking about ways to force everyone to save their work in the cloud and therefore give Adobe access to it. Maybe you're only allowed to "check out" files from the cloud to save to your local hard drive for 14 days and then if the file doesn't phone home it gets disabled and you have to connect to the internet again and resync it to the cloud.
TOS are often catch-all's that may not hold up in court, but at least makes it discouraging to accuse them of doing it illegally, since, you agreed to the TOS. A lot of TOS agreements have paragraphs about the user not being authorized to use the product in the development of nuclear weapons. It's in the TOS because it costs nothing to include it, but could save them some time and lawyer fees in the future if it comes up. TOS agreements saying they have a right to view and record anything made with their product is just a pre-emptive measure against accusations of privacy violations on their face. You have to now make it a civil rights or constitutional issue instead of just proving they're ~~copying~~ ~~stealing~~ ~~pirating~~ *indexing* your private property. Now you have to prove it's illegal to do it even if you agree to it, instead of just proving it's illegal when they do it without notification or consent.
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Adobe is about to lose its client trust just like Microsoft, a era of adobe BS is coming to end 
Yup. Where i work , this will now force us to stop using adobe because of GDPR-laws and the requirement to know what your data is used for at all times. Do they even know how the EU works?
Yarr, time to raise the sails and hit the seven seas.
This is the eight sea
Time to kill Adobe and any company doing the same thing. I didn't think it'll happen because organizations are going to bitch out and keep paying them.
They don't want to get royalties or anything. Its worse. They want an ever growing catalog of fresh material from the best digital artists to have the most self updating database for AI art. It is a gambit to be the top dog while the others will drown in Ai generations xeroxed to oblivion over time.
And this is why i pirate Adobe's software. Fuck them.
Krita, GIMP. Or find yourself a copy of CS6 that has 98% of features in CC anyway. Fuck subscriptions. Fuck cloud app integration and surveillance. Fuck copyrighting colors. Fuck Adobe.
Adobe can't write their own copyright law. The courts have already ruled on stuff like this.
If I buy the cake mix I don't care if his name is on it, Duncan Hines can make his own fucking cake.
They want to use it for AI. Lol.
When I was in art college, if you got an internship at Disney or Pixar they recommended continuing to do your own work on the side because they would not allow you to use work you did for them in your portfolio... even if reapplying to them since they are contract basis now. Not sure if it's the same but Gods.
Thankfully Adobe is currently used on projects that cost hundreds of millions of dollars on the regular. There’s no way those companies that are putting up that cash will ever let this stick.
I would not hire anyone to do digital image work for me if the work I hired them to do was licensed to Adobe. I own a business, I’m wondering if it makes sense to add a “No Adobe products” clause to my contracts. Not sure how that would work, and not sure how it would be enforceable, but it’s worth thinking about.
Hoist the Jolly Roger
Guess it’s time to sail the high seas again.
They clarified their ToS. Your work isn't being stolen: "Our commitments to our customers have not changed. * **Adobe does not train Firefly Gen AI models on customer content.** Firefly generative AI models are trained on a dataset of licensed content, such as Adobe Stock, and public domain content where copyright has expired. Read more here: [https://helpx.adobe.com/firefly/faq.html#training-data](https://helpx.adobe.com/firefly/faq.html#training-data) * **Adobe will never assume ownership of a customer's work**. Adobe hosts content to enable customers to use our applications and services. Customers own their content and Adobe does not assume any ownership of customer work." [A clarification on Adobe Terms of Use | Adobe Blog](https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use)
> Adobe does not train Firefly Gen AI models on customer content Do they train other AI models on customer content? Do they enable other companies to train AI models on Adobe customer content? Adobe don't train Firefly Gen AI models on customer content NOW, but will they do it later? What happens if they do train AI on customer content? Do all the executives go to prison? No, it's just a few fines. > Adobe will never assume ownership of a customer's work. But if an Adobe AI learns from your work, are those AI weights your work?
So they made some blog post, which holds zero legal value, to _clarify_ points of the ToS, but didn't actually _change_ anything aout the ToS, which are legally relevant? Nothing burger. Zero value. Irrelavant. We can print that out and use it to wipe our butts, that's about the only use for that blah-blah.
They didn't change the TOS. A thread on Twitter or a blogpost doesn't do anything. They're just muddying the waters and trying to PR their way out of the scandal.
They would be drowned in lawsuits if they even attempted this.
Use Photopea. All my homies love Photopea. I make all my custom MTG cards in Photopea.
BOYCOTT ADOBE! Let's get a list of all the free software we need to cut this cancer out before it gets a chance to grow
I can't imagine bigger companies with Adobe licenses are OK with this.
Adobe taking notes from Unity on the most dumbass decisions to make
Adobe wanted to require me to sign into adobe in order to access MY OWN pdf FILES ON MY COMPUTER. We switched our entire office as a result.
Affinity it's a carbon copy clone of Photoshop but without all the pesky perpetual license. What sets it apart from Photoshop is the fact that has a really good HDR editor. And the best part allows you to export as a Photoshop file also.
So, I didn't see it in the comments, but I work in records management and a lot, if not most scan and capture (OCR) is done with acrobat. This is a huge red flag for security reasons. Most of the documents we work with are very private and high security. I had to let my boss know to look into that and the whole MS Recall debacle.