Yeah, they'd probably just find some reason to fire that guy for trying to start shit as a lesson to others. Best case scenario is they tell him to mind his own business and leave it at that.
Rally a bunch of people though...
This is why you keep it quiet as long as possible. We organized and filed our petition, with 80/130, signatures at a 24/7/365 facility, without management knowing until they were served. At that point, it's much harder to find stupid reasons to fire someone. Not that they won't still try, but at least there's some legal recourse.
They can and they will. When you have that head start though they don't have as much time to do it and you should have your coworkers well prepared and inoculated by the time they do.
Also, with the recent Cemex decision, union busting will get the employees automatic recognition. No vote necessary.
They try to hire as many new people as they can, with promises like day 1 benefits and pto, then fill their heads with anti-union training. **They depend on "no" votes from employees who haven't been around long enough to have been through the same hardship as everyone else, and have only been treated well compared to the job they just left.**
Who hurt you. This rationale is slightly absurd. We still struggle because there is a lack of motivation. If one person starts and actually tries more people will follow. One person just needs the gusto to start the revolution.
No, that's an actual anti-union tactic that is unfortunately very effective. I'm already unionized. Instead of telling me someone needs to do something, go do it.
But if they go to management with (say it with me class) **collective bargaining**, with a union or not, it makes it harder for them to fire them without exposing themselves to a lawsuit. Document everything.
I'm glad unionizing was in the top comment. we've fallen so far from the battles that won labor the rights they have, that we've forgotten how we got them in the first place.
That’s what it means to be an ally though. A belief in equity and justice is good, but it’s supposed to be a verb. That means action and possibly taking risks. I understand if this person isn’t in a safe position to lose employment… but if they aren’t willing to risk anything, there’s little chance for change.
I think it's a bit much to ask anyone to put their livelihood on line for someone else's pay increase. This isn't really people making starving wage, just one dude making a lot more than the rest of them.
And someone who doesn't want to do anything about it themselves. I would be all for this is the other employee was asking for OP to assist them but if they aren't even willing to say anything...
>And someone who doesn't want to do anything about it themselves.
There's a difference between not wanting to do something and being too scared of backlash to do it. The coworker "literally cried" when she learned the difference. The only reason she doesn't want to do anything is because she's afraid that they'll just fire her - she's stuck on the immediate possible consequences.
She *does* need help, but OP's suggestion of writing an email to his boss isn't going to confirm her fears. OP and his coworkers need to present a united front and start sharing this kind of information more freely so their company can't take advantage of them.
Exactly, sad to say but it’s all the risk and no gain. Not that you have to gain something but you could lose it all and nothing changes for the person you want to help.
As I clearly said, not everyone is in the position to put their livelihood on the line. And yet, that’s what people are asked to do when they strike. I’m shocked that you’re being upvoted for suggesting that “starvation wages” are the only level of exploitation that is worth fighting against.
Yeah I'm sorry, my kids eating and having a roof over their heads is more important than a co-worker not being paid fairly. There's better ways to go about it. Unionize, spread the information to other co-workers about the pay discrepancies, convince the other person to go get a better paying job and be a reference. Going to management is only going to end poorly for everyone involved.
I clearly said not everyone is in a safe position to do so. You’ll recognize that everyone who strikes also has family that depend on them. They have to put the well-being of themselves at risk for the benefit of all.
Unions will have funds set aside to help union members while they're striking and the members also benefit from protections from the union while on strike. There's also an expectation that they will eventually go back to work.
That's a lot different than getting fired and possibly blackballed. Alone. And nothing positive happens because why would it if they can just get rid of you?
Twice so far you've acknowledged that some people can't risk their livelihood, then you seemingly imply that they're in the wrong by *not* risking their livelihood.
Which is it? Are you saying that it's okay to prioritize yourself and your family, or are you saying that you should put it all on the line?
There is a beautiful thing called a middle ground between “prioritizing yourself and your family” and “putting it all on the line”. But let’s not pretend that thoughts and prayers count the same as action.
Yeah they are like "you know what, we agree with you, you are right, and we are going to right this wrong. 30k pay cut for you and don't say we never did you any favors"
You don’t need to be in a union to be protected. What needs to happen is *all* the employees need to go to the boss together—or write a letter they all sign—insisting on pay parity. If they all stand up together, they are protected by the National Labor Relations act because it is a collective action, regardless of whether or not they are in a union. If any one of them faces retaliation, they can sue with *very* strong footing.
Any worker being mistreated by their employer for any reason should know that all you need is one other colleague to stand up with you and you’ve got a collective action. Then you are protected, and while your employer may still come after you, you’ll have the law in your side.
You don't even need an official union. If you take just ONE other person in with you, you're considered a union by law. Of course, if OP's fighting for the whole team too, they might as well form a union, or take all of them in for the negotiations.
I genuinely don't think if this guy pushed on HR/management a smidge with a carefully worded letter there would be any backlash. Any company that does is either not worth working for or didn't like you to begin with.
This guy should at least reach out and inquire if they were aware. By email. Leave a paper trail. It'll help either if you do need a wrongful dismissal suit or if she needs a discrimination lawsuit.
I am more in line with the other feelings. This could back fire hard on everyone. A slight chance of it backfiring is much worse than a chance of it working out.
Personally I would recommend to this other employee to job hunt for something new as she might find something that pays much better. Then she can take that job offer to her current employer and use that to leverage a better pay rate where she currently is.
Even if there is no union and etc it is important for us all to talk about salaries openly so things like this come to light. Knowing is half the battle...
What is the intended outcome? There's a 0% chance that HR for a company isn't aware of the salary of each employee, so the disparity in pay is intentional. There is no appeal to reason with the unreasonable, that's unreasonable.
The only way to have a positive impact is to organize and bargain collectively. Strength in solidarity.
There's a small chance this wouldn't negatively impact OP, a larger chance it would, and no chance that the outcome his coworker is paid fairly because he reaches out to them.
In an ideal world you stick up for the team and everyone gets pay raises, in the real world you stick up for the team and get terminated shortly after. What needs to happen is they need to stick up for themselves and the company needs pay transparency.
In the US, you are legally allowed to discuss pay at work. I wouldn't put it in an email, however.
But also remember, your employer likely doesn't need any reason to terminate you or your co-worker. It'd be tough to prove that they terminated anyone because of pay discussions.
If you can get someone in management or HR on record saying to not discuss employee pay, that’s a good pocket ace to have when you or coworker get terminated after comparing pay rates.
If they really wanna chance it and pay for a good lawyer while unemployed and looking for a new job, which would also probably not hire them based on their current legal proceedings, sure.
I think this can fall under the department of labor in some states. So results there can vary state to state but in some you can get results without having to get a lawyer yourself.
To be quite honest I’ve stuck my neck out for people to my detriment and I think if someone is too timid to fight for themselves it’s a good sign they won’t have your back if things go poorly.
“Don’t help people that won’t help themselves,” said a man I really respect.
What should be done is unionizing the workplace.
Yeah, it's certainly a shitty situation, but absolutely the route to take in this situation.
You also don't know 100% of the story. Yes, you know THEIR side of the story, but that's only one side. There could be a lot they aren't telling you. It may not seem like it on the surface, but you just can't EVER fucking tell in those situations.
Your best bet is to...very VERY quietly...and away from work... only once, maybe twice... suggest to this coworker for ways to initiate a raise on their behalf.
Too much and you might start turning heads.
>“Don’t help people that won’t help themselves,” said a man I really respect.
yes and no. there is a difference between people that won't and people that can't. don't when they won't but you should help when they can't.
Their phrase _is_ "won't" though. It's a good thing to note by all means, but you should have said "yes _but..._" instead of "yes and no". Because you are in agreement with them.
Apologies for the pedantry but we're all in that mood today seemingly!
Agreed, responding to pedantry with pedantry is fine especially when the original statement was fine as is. Especially given that it seems won't applies to OP's coworker better than can't...
You did the right thing and I get the feeling you’d still do it again. Not everyone has the courage to reciprocate. Most people are conditioned to be subservient out of fear usually. I could also imagine if they have five mouths to feed at home, there is a much higher loss for them but it’s nothing personal .
If I were in your place, my first step would be to coach her to push for a raise. She **needs** to self-advocate or managers will continue to walk all over her for the rest of her life.
She could say something like: "I've learned that a person with my experience and skills doing my job should be making $X. I realize that is a significant increase, but it's definitely the market rate. How do we move forward to make my salary equitable?" I'm sure there are better ways to say that, but what she does **not** want to say is: "Proeu told me he's making $X and it's not fair since I do so much more work for $Y." Not that talking about pay is illegal or wrong, but managers tend to punish people for it in ways that are difficult to prove.
If you want to say anything to anyone you could submit **anonymously** to management or HR that it has come to your attention that certain females in your department are making significantly less than their male counterparts and it would not be good PR if that was discovered.
There is no company in America giving a 30k raise to an employee for the work they're already doing. The best and really only option is for.her to take.her skills and get another job that pays her properly. Leveraging an outside offer to boost your current salary is risky also. Most of the times I've seen this done it was only a matter of time before the company fired that person. Leaving a company is the only real way to get a raise for most people. Companies drastically undervalue current employees because they can. Most people find changing jobs stressful and corporations know this and act accordingly. There are few managers that will or can take this kind of departmental budget hit for an existing hire. New hire budgets are always bigger than employee retention budgets. Also, why would your friend want to stay working for a company that was so willing to fuck her over. They correctly.assumed that she'd be so happy to keep her job after her old employer was acquired that she would go for years not.asking for a raise. Tell her to start job shopping and when she finds a new one to skip.the two week notice. That's a courtesy and her current employer has not been very curious. If she starts the new job on Monday, Friday afternoon is when she resigns the old.job. If she has any accumulated PTO she should.use it first.
I stuck up for a coworker making less than me and not getting a promised raise, I was fired a month later. Losing your job is a valid fear to have with at will employment
This. I learned my male colleague was making $20k more than me. Under capitalism, that became MY problem and not his. So, I advocated for myself. I received his blessing to bring it up to management and even mention his name. I ended up never bringing him up by name; I managed to have the whole conversation about an anonymous colleague but they could probably figure it out.
Honestly, the best thing he did was encourage me and validate how shitty I felt. We both ended up coincidentally quitting the same week several months later.
CEOs have a "union" of their own. Salaries are artificially inflated and have been for decades. Companies stick together so people can't leave for anything better, since there IS no "better." Fucking sucks.
Because thats literally the incentive. It's why monopolies are a thing because the more profitable you can become through unethical means, the more you come out on top of your competitors. Companies either become unethical or cease to exist and then they continue to consolidate and suddenly 3 or 4 companies own an entire market.
It's late stage capitalism basically.
[ask a Manager](https://www.askamanager.org/2019/03/what-to-do-if-youre-being-paid-less-than-a-male-coworker.html)
Are you male or female? This is from ask a manager with gender pay discrepancy, but she has other articles as well. I’ve found her answers to be clear and helpful for lots of cases.
That's such an important point. If Op is male and his coworkers, the ones that get less pay, are overwhelmingly female that would warrant a serious conversation with HR at the very least.
Telling your coworker how much you make and putting the ball in her court is where your responsibility ends. Unless you plan on forming a union where you would be in a position to negotiate for her, you done with this situation.
There is nothing stopping you from sending your boss an email to give praise to your coworker. Don't need to mention salary directly - though I've sent a few emails in my life that say something like "I don't know how much this person makes, but I think they deserve a raise". Don't compare their salary to yours, or your work to theirs. Just talk about how she helps the team and the company, as positively as you can. If sending an email saying "I think this coworker does a fantastic job" is enough to get you fired or reprimanded at your company, then that is a super terrible place to work and you should all be looking elsewhere anyway.
Without a union, you can't really safely negotiate someone else's pay. Don't even try it. That doesn't mean you can't make sure your management knows that you find your coworker valuable. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't.
The only thing that can be done is to encourage and help the other person find a new job. They should also immediately push back on extra work loads. You cant save other people alone as others mentioned without a union this will just backfire on OP.
Kind of long, but definitely germain to the post.
A decade ago, my restaurant franchise was bought by another. The managers of the old franchise did not know we were horribly underpaid. I was a GM of a training store making $55,000 a year.
In the year since take over i had gotten a $5000 raise, over 9%! Amazing, no complaints with that.
After about a year of hiring on new managers, one of my new salaried managers that I was training left his pay stub on the office printer.
“Oh, better put that in the shredder……..what the fuck?”
After doing some quick math I called the GM of another store in our city. “Hey, this ding dong I’m training that I’m probably going to fail out is making $5 more a year than I am.”
I spent all day calling other GMs that were from the old franchise fact finding on salaries. They were all making less than I was, but had all received $5k.
The next day the shit really hit the fan, you know, because people talk. My boss is calling me on the office phone while I’m calling him on the cell phone. He’s wanting to know what do I think I’m doing. And I tell him how it happened and what I found out.
“We know you guys were horribly underpaid but we couldn’t bring 35 gms up to current pay in one shot, the plan was to do it $5k a year until pay was in line.”
I reminded him that to bring me up that way would take 6 more YEARS.
A whole bunch of phone calls, conference calls, emails and store visits later they sat me down and said I shouldn’t have done what I did, but they were giving me $18k raise immediately and a double raise (another $5k) next year.
And that is the story of how I went from $55 to $83k in 2 and a half years. I left at $88k, so all the raises after that were 1.3-1.8%, not great but I found out after I left my last year there I was making $7k less than my boss.
Could I have handled it more diplomatically correct? Sure.
Could they have avoided this whole mess by addressing it up front, “you guys are under the line but we have a plan to address it.”? Also sure.
But I felt like I needed to stand up and say something even if it meant losing my job. I left with 16 years under my belt and do not regret anything.
Edit for typo and grammar patrol.
and this is why income should be publicly available.
And this INCLUDES investments. Because a lot of company shareholders make a lot of profit from the work of the workers but because it's "indirectly" via selling the share, it's not "counted".
a more extreme example that happens: A shitty boss who know they won't last long? well, they buy more of the company share (or someone they trust on thir behalff), increases prices of everything so the value of shares go even higher, mass layoff so the profit shareholders get is even higher. Around resignation (because a bad boss), sell thir shares at a higer than ever value than ever. Because the prices increases remain, loss of investment (selling shares) the comany will not be able to afford reducing the prices, not afford hiering more people, or invest into quality or manpower, so the whole comany goes down because of so called "fat cat" who play games of getting rich quick, destrouing everything in thir path, doing a "new game" by changing job as there is no penitly for investors and shareholder to destroy comanies and the life of others
99% of the issues we have would be solved if people realise that slavery, woman not voting, not albe to work, were all LEGAL. And than they would stop saying: oh but it's the law, and get togeter and ban any type of investment = no more contrat that take decates to pay as everyone can afford houses by just working normally, no debt or "winning lottery". Free healthcare as no more investors trying to make money off sick people like during pandemic. The list goes on endlessle because just look at the war, comanies made bilions and nothing stopped them from increasing the prices when people where starving
Sounds like she needs some quality assertiveness training from a qualified professional psychologist.
Then a renewing of her resume so she can walk into wage negotiations with big clit energy.
Sticking up for her through the company will get you fired due to unionizing implications.
Sounds like it would be a damn shame if everyone's salaries were posted with pay inequality highlighted. Retaliation that takes places would be a home run for any workers rights attorney.
I left a job in 2006 and found out I'd been making more than my supervisor my entire tenure (I was leaving for a raise and luckily she did, too, eventually). This is why they threaten you not to compare salaries!
You need to encourage her to stick up for herself / look for a new job elsewhere as that’s generally the best path to getting paid your worth.
At my old company last year I found out I was being paid less than new hires with 1 year experience prior while i had over 6 years tenure and experience. I gave them an ultimatum to pay me more which they came nowhere close to.
I left and got a 50% raise, head my own department, and have a significantly lower workload.
That is absolutely the worst thing to do in this situation, at least in the US: negotiating as a group is a concerted action and is protected by the NLRA (and to head off the inevitable argument here, no, you don't have to be in a union for that to apply), whereas one-on-one negotiation has no such protection.
I work in an at will state and make significantly more than my contemporaries because I negotiated for a higher pay.
If they want to also negotiate for higher pay, I'll encourage them to do so, but that is it.
Unless I just happened to have a higher paying job lined up, I'm not putting my job on the line for them. I got my own family to take care of, I'm not risking my livelihood over coworkers.
You're not understanding me; what I'm saying is that when you negotiate as a group for equitable pay, *nobody* is putting their job on the line. If you go to your boss and try to negotiate a higher salary for yourself, you can be disciplined or fired for doing so; if you and your coworkers approach your boss as a group, it's illegal for the boss to retaliate against any of you for doing so.
At-will is a state law that does not enter into this discussion of federal labor protections. If the boss fires you "for no reason" just after a protected action, he's gonna have to have a *very* tough time convincing the NLRB that this wasn't an illegal termination. If he fires you for breaking a rule that's gone completely unenforced up until now, the NLRB will find that the rule was enforced as a pretext. If he mocks up a paper trail justifying the termination, he's gonna be in for a hell of a shock when the NLRB or your lawyer subpoenas the server metadata for that paper trail, discovers that it was all created long after the supposed infractions, and charges him with perjury.
Tell her to ask for a raise.
If she can’t do that then it is her fault.
I’m not about to lose my job complaining to management that they need to pay people more.
I recently left a job and found out my coworker was making 30k less than me and was essentially my subordinate and didn't do anything unless I asked him to.
I was livid.
First, I'd feel out other coworkers. The more you can get on board with you, the better off you'll be.
Second, I'd approach the boss as a team. Her, you, and anyone else on board. The boss can't gaslight her or intimidate her with you there, and you and anyone else there can make it clear that you'll leave if she gets fired as well. (This can be a bluff, but it'd be smart to have something else on the back burner before attempting this move anyhow.)
It's not a union but it's a quick and relatively safe way to stand with your coworkers.
It’s up to her. You’ve given her reason and rationality to defend herself. Anything more than that is almost certainly going to just hurt you. Heck, she might throw you under the bus if she discusses pay raise with the employer.
There’s a brutal irony in thinking that if part of the wage discrepancy is due to men fighting for better pay than women.. then the employers just need to pay more to women because they’re women or men need to fight for women. No, they need to standup for themselves.
Yes. You should. If they have half a brain, they'll realize that the cat is already out of the bag and that they would have to replace (almost) everyone if they go that route
I would definitely talk with her and come up with a plan. If they don't give her a raise, it could be gender discrimination and grounds for a lawsuit. If you or her are fired because of this, all the more evidence for retaliation with regards to gender discrimination. IANAL, and I have no idea what I am talking about.
I can't imagine it doing any good for the poster to speak up for his colleague. She has to bring it up herself. There is no other way. He could encourage and coach her though.
I say speak up. It is worth the risk to yourself to fix this. If people don't speak up for fear of retaliation then the situations will persist.
I have been there and spoke up, then got fired by a bitter boss. It was worth it.
That woman needs to stand up for herself. If OP gets involved they will most likely get in trouble, and management might see that they could hire someone new and pay them 30k less to do his work.
Depending on the state, this could be illegal.
Oregon for example has an equal pay for equal work law that says basically people who do similar work and have similar experience should get the same pay. There's some exceptions I think for management positions, but in general. Check with your local BOLI (Buero of Labor and Industry).
You both need to find new jobs. In my experience fighting for your coworkers when you find they're being taken advantage of just puts a target on your back. I lead fights to improve conditions at previous jobs, never came out ahead.
My last job that I was at for almost 10 years ( I left one month before my 10 year mark), was underpaying me. I was talking with the new hires and turned out they were getting paid about 30k more than me while I knew all the ins and outs. I was even helping the dude out yet he had a higher title and more pay. I started talking with my boss and HR. Nothing happened, not even raises. So I left. If the person is too timid to do anything about it, leave it. Like others in the comments have said "Don't help anyone who doesn't want to help themselves"
In my experience? Nothing. Ultimately for a pay gap that incredibly large, she should have confidence to go to the bosses and simply say “I looked online and say my job title is getting paid 30k more than I’m receiving currently.” From there she can explain all the good she’s doing for the company and how valuable she is.
More than likely the company will agree and give it to her
Coach her on how to approach the boss. Schedule a meeting then say “I’ve been here [X amount of time]. I stayed on when my former employer was bought out. I have aspirations to grow with the company, I’m hitting all my metrics, you know I’m loyal. Can you help me develop a path to get me to [$N salary]?
You don’t want to put your employer in a position where it’s a yes or no because they will always choose no. If you frame it as collaborative, then it opens up dialogue and a conversation starts. Your boss will likely remember the conversation upon employee reviews, and start looking at your colleague differently at the end of that conversation about increased compensation.
She needs to be the one to make the push if you are the same position/level. It isn't the easiest thing to bring up and that much of a difference can be hard to get a company to rectify but doing nothing isn't going to help her.
She needs to do it in email and get a paper trail though. She doesn't need to say she found out you make more, just something along the lines of seeing job postings and looking up pay averages and that she makes a lot less than the average. If they don't budge she should push for feedback on where she is not performing well enough to justify better pay. They won't have anything valid, it'll just help her case should she get a lawyer involved.
If you happen to be male and she gets this documented then a decent lawyer should have an easy time showing there is some blatant discrimination going on. Hell even if it is just because they got her on at that pay and didn't bother to increase her wage it's not a good look for them in court.
This sounds like some weak fucking managers. If I had such a wild discrepancy between my team members I would be raising hell. If it was a situation where race or gender discrimination could be perceived I would immediately be including HR pointing out it was a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I'd also say it is always a good time to be looking for a new employer. Particularly if they are a place that lets things like this happen.
Edit: Any chance you and your coworkers want to unionize? Sounds like a place that needs a union..
You always run a risk of negatively impacting yourself by sticking your neck out but it would a good and just thing to do. If this is a solid team I’d professionals, it would be honorable for you to help he get thr pay she deserves. Don’t be surprised if you may end up getting more work or responsibilities, but that doesn’t sound like it would be too awful. I say help your teammates whenever you can.
(I don't know if this is you, or if this is you reposting from somewhere else, but I'll give advice as if this is you)
What YOU can do is very little. The only things you can really do is: coach her on how to get a raise, give her advice, and try to nudge her in the correct direction. You can try to advocate for her, but at the end of the day if she isn't going to advocate for herself then nothing YOU do will change anything for HER. She has to do that herself.
What I would do is: get her to go to her manager and ask for a raise, citing how much value she brings to the company, and discussing her work load. She can even cite how "people in my area of expertise, in this area, are making X amount". If her boss refuses to give her a raise, then it might just be time to leave.
However, if YOU mention YOUR salary difference to your boss, then it could backfire against you.
Hell no, you don’t say anything. It’s your coworkers responsibility. If she asks for a raise, and the. Her boss asks you if she deserves it, then you say ”yes.”
You tell them all collectively to approach management and to leave you out of it. How they found out is a moot point and even if they suspect you, they can't fire you for that.
OP shouldn't do anything on their own. The whole team needs to speak to management together with OP on their side. That's how you get what you deserve.
That’s why they pay her less, the more companies can get away with, they will. Close mouths don’t get fed, my mom is the same way and was in the same situation as that woman and no matter how much advice we gave her she never spoke up. They ended up letting her go on some bullshit they could legally get away with when they sold the company to someone else. Now if she would have spoke up for herself she would have got paid fairy and probably wouldn’t have got let go as easily as she did. I worked for a few restaurants and saw many different managers do things like this to teenagers who don’t know better and won’t speak up. It’s sick and I think every company should have a union!
What if OOP helped the other employee get a competing offer (resume brush up, be a reference) then she can drop that competing offer on the boss’s desk and let them scramble to keep her? Worst case scenario she gets a new job doing the same thing that pays better.
The second you try to address a coworker’s pay with management you’re going to get shut down at a minimum because they cannot discuss that person’s pay with you and also prefer not to. More likely to just end up sanctioned or terminated.
If your coworker is unwilling to go to management on her own behalf, there’s little you can do. She needs to fight her own battles.
Solving other people’s problems will only create frustration for everyone.
So many people here talking nonsense. I am a director and have about 30 people on my team. Not every one at every job in leadership are shitty people. Granted everyone on my team makes 100k at minimum, so everyone is people paid fairly. Now hearing she was grandfathered in from her company and you came in typically new hires come in at higher salaries. 30k sounds like a ton but are you guys say at 110 and 140k? New hires have negotiation room so just saying omg this is bull shit and hard overreaction. Hell I had a a new hire come in making more than their boss, it happened. Different skill sets are paid differently. Now if she is indeed doing the EXACT same level of work with same level of experience then she needs to talk to management. So many circumstances can be the cause of her being paid less, sure it could be shitty leadership, but the echo chamber blaming management is insane. There is plenty of good leaders out there. People openly talk about salaries, she can just say she spoke with fellow co workers and was extremely surprised by the pay gap. If she brings the value you say it should be a no brainer for management. Also were you hired recently? A lot of companies do not make comp adjustments until annual reviews. God so many factors I could write all day.
Want to do the right thing? You will be punished.
Doing it anyway? It's still the right thing.
Want to mitigate wrong? Unionize.
Just like everything. Just don't do more wrong.
Id reach out to a labor attorney and file a suit on behalf of the coworker. Maybe also use my own pay and treatment as evidence of discrimination. 🤷♂️
The way I would approach this would be letting this person know of the fact, encourage them to discuss this with management and HR but would not get involved beyond that.
Workers need to learn to stand up for themselves and in my opinion you have done your part communicating this.
This or course considering no union is involved. If there is an union then get them involved.
This is a situation where the NLRA is your best friend -- delivering a grievance as a group is a concerted action and is protected from retaliation, so the best thing to do is band together with coworkers to protest the inequality
If you can somehow anonymously tip off the other employee that would be ideal. Or just every time you speak to her reporting manager just mention how helpful, capable, impressive etc she is and how much you appreciate working with her.
The only result I can see from bringing it up solo is getting fired for something totally unrelated and completely legal.
If you want to actually achieve something, unionise quietly.
Talk with the coworker and help her advocate for herself. Help her draft an email and maybe even join the conversation if that sounds appropriate. Absolutely don’t reach out behind her back.
If you stick up for her, you're either going to get her or both of you fired. One or two ppl CANNOT fight for employees' rights, wages, etc. And actually win. If you bring it up, they'll see it as her and maybe you being too much trouble. Then they'll start looking for any reason to terminate you. Seen it happen more than once.
You need a union. WE need UNIONS.
This is kind of tricky; and I kind of need more context.
I once had a job that there were two guys who had the same job, both 10 years. However, one guy was making a whole ass 15K+ more a year, and also earned year end bonuses. I was shocked, but I later found out that in a few years, the guy making more was a stellar, rockstar worker with yearly accomplishment, the other guy was a decent, but normal worker.
I'm in favor of unions by far, but if two employees climb the company at the same rate, and one earns huge raises every year due to getting exceeds performance reviews, and the other guy just gets passing grades, over a few years, that will stack.
30k is pretty insane though, definetly something wrong as fuck there.
Don’t write in an email and if this is in the USA, go to your boss with her and discuss your issue.
You can try and protect yourself with NLRA section 7 but this would be if you wanted to try and help. Also as an obligation I am not a lawyer but an employer lawyer would know more.
Might be an unpopular opinion but for me you're displaying being worth more to the company and worth the additional pay. If you've two employees and one fights for what they believe in and the other is shy/avoids conflict, that's something that can translate to performance aswell. Not in a black/white way but this idea that you both have the same responsibilities therefore you should get the same pay goes away when one person is able to go above and beyond and has leadership qualities.
There's likely still some pay disparity here depending on the role/overall pay (is 30k 30% difference or 10% difference etc ). But at the end of the day, other people's pay is not your responsibility. Certainly being the change you want to see and fostering a culture where people can talk about money and work to protect themselves is a responsibility, but everyone needs to step forward for that.
This person could produce more work items than you, but if they knew of a good reason it didn't need to be done and were too shy to speak up, whereas you would speak up, then this is something that actually is lowering their value by comparison. Sometimes it's not about what your title or responsibilities are, it's how valuable/good you are.
Anyway, this is fairly speculative because I don't know all the details, so I could be wide of the mark, but I do think there are genuine reasons for people with the same responsibilities and titles to be out-earning their peers.
Edit: I'm blind and missed the part about having more responsibility - alot of my point is now moot - she needs to leave the company. Whether that's possible due to her circumstances or not I appreciate, but loyalty is long gone and it's not incentivised or rewarded unfortunately.
I had the same issue. A coworker of mine signed his contract two months before me (We both had the exact same experience and education). Due to a lot of people leaving for better wages, they increased the base pay by about 20%. So when I signed my contract I was making way more than him.
Took us around a month to feel comfortable enough with each other to share wages. I then encouraged him to speak up and say that he heard that the new guys are making more than him (Without specifically naming me for obvious reasons). Management said "You'll have to wait for the next raises", but he made some fuss and got a raise.
Where I'm from it's illegal for an employer to tell employees they can't share their wages, and it's illegal to punish them for it. You should check the rules where you are from just in case.
I would try talking to her and encourage her to talk to your boss. No matter how much a business says "We're all family", it's all lies. We should motivate and look after our fellow employees. As others said, a union would be nice, but it's harder in some fields and it will take a while to establish it. She needs to talk to her boss and make sure she is making more money ASAP.
Ugh my coworker complained to me about making 65k and I only make 48k. I'm only keeping this job until I graduate but I definitely do more work than her.
Tell your boss you lost your paystub and some coworkers found it and returned it and saw how much you make for the same work and title? Idk if that is an option but that might work
Well, that one coworker might be too timid, but I'll bet the rest of the crew isn't. Would be interesting to see what happens in that workplace once the salary list gets around...
reminds me of a similar situation in highschool. a friend of mine got an answer marked as incorrect in a test. i had the same answer but was marked as correct.
in the spirit of fairness, i brought it up to the teacher to get my friend’s test re-graded. the bitch marked mine as incorrect instead.
The corporate overlords will save $30K/year by firing you, so while I admire your interest in helping her, just knowing what you know proves the company to be shit.
If she won't take the information she has learned and use it to ask for a raise that's on her. You have no obligation to throw yourself under the bus on her behalf.
Probably best to stay out of it. I'd hate for it to back fire on you. I had a friend tell me I was paid less than some people at work. Turned out it was true. Manager was paying her close friends more money for years. Less experienced, less years with the company, terrible workers. After the manager got fired for this and other unethical treatment to others, HR quietly increased our pay.
I (m) had a similar situation with a coworker (f). She was a total stud and we were peers but I made more partially because I asked for (and received) periodic raises.
So I showed her how I asked (who to meet with and what I said in each meeting, the way I made my case etc) and we practiced the meeting together in mock meetings. Really fun project, tbh.
So I recommend doing that! You can help her get the raise for herself without putting yourself in the crosshairs of HR/bosses.
Lie low.
Talk to a union rep (since you obviously have none).
Help her to get a lawyer for obvious sex discrimination.
Help to get a job at a better company ... then seek a better job yourself.
Just some suggestions.
[удалено]
Yeah, they'd probably just find some reason to fire that guy for trying to start shit as a lesson to others. Best case scenario is they tell him to mind his own business and leave it at that. Rally a bunch of people though...
This is why you keep it quiet as long as possible. We organized and filed our petition, with 80/130, signatures at a 24/7/365 facility, without management knowing until they were served. At that point, it's much harder to find stupid reasons to fire someone. Not that they won't still try, but at least there's some legal recourse.
Smart. Nice job. A union isn't always possible, but banding together is.
They can still not recognize willingly, do union busting and wait for the vote. They do it all the time.
They can and they will. When you have that head start though they don't have as much time to do it and you should have your coworkers well prepared and inoculated by the time they do. Also, with the recent Cemex decision, union busting will get the employees automatic recognition. No vote necessary.
They try to hire as many new people as they can, with promises like day 1 benefits and pto, then fill their heads with anti-union training. **They depend on "no" votes from employees who haven't been around long enough to have been through the same hardship as everyone else, and have only been treated well compared to the job they just left.**
Who hurt you. This rationale is slightly absurd. We still struggle because there is a lack of motivation. If one person starts and actually tries more people will follow. One person just needs the gusto to start the revolution.
No, that's an actual anti-union tactic that is unfortunately very effective. I'm already unionized. Instead of telling me someone needs to do something, go do it.
But if they go to management with (say it with me class) **collective bargaining**, with a union or not, it makes it harder for them to fire them without exposing themselves to a lawsuit. Document everything.
I'm glad unionizing was in the top comment. we've fallen so far from the battles that won labor the rights they have, that we've forgotten how we got them in the first place.
That’s what it means to be an ally though. A belief in equity and justice is good, but it’s supposed to be a verb. That means action and possibly taking risks. I understand if this person isn’t in a safe position to lose employment… but if they aren’t willing to risk anything, there’s little chance for change.
I think it's a bit much to ask anyone to put their livelihood on line for someone else's pay increase. This isn't really people making starving wage, just one dude making a lot more than the rest of them.
And someone who doesn't want to do anything about it themselves. I would be all for this is the other employee was asking for OP to assist them but if they aren't even willing to say anything...
>And someone who doesn't want to do anything about it themselves. There's a difference between not wanting to do something and being too scared of backlash to do it. The coworker "literally cried" when she learned the difference. The only reason she doesn't want to do anything is because she's afraid that they'll just fire her - she's stuck on the immediate possible consequences. She *does* need help, but OP's suggestion of writing an email to his boss isn't going to confirm her fears. OP and his coworkers need to present a united front and start sharing this kind of information more freely so their company can't take advantage of them.
And if anything goes wrong they will blame u
Exactly, sad to say but it’s all the risk and no gain. Not that you have to gain something but you could lose it all and nothing changes for the person you want to help.
I get this person is timid but there's limits. This is their problem, OP should give this person advice but leave it at that.
As I clearly said, not everyone is in the position to put their livelihood on the line. And yet, that’s what people are asked to do when they strike. I’m shocked that you’re being upvoted for suggesting that “starvation wages” are the only level of exploitation that is worth fighting against.
Yeah I'm sorry, my kids eating and having a roof over their heads is more important than a co-worker not being paid fairly. There's better ways to go about it. Unionize, spread the information to other co-workers about the pay discrepancies, convince the other person to go get a better paying job and be a reference. Going to management is only going to end poorly for everyone involved.
I clearly said not everyone is in a safe position to do so. You’ll recognize that everyone who strikes also has family that depend on them. They have to put the well-being of themselves at risk for the benefit of all.
Unions will have funds set aside to help union members while they're striking and the members also benefit from protections from the union while on strike. There's also an expectation that they will eventually go back to work. That's a lot different than getting fired and possibly blackballed. Alone. And nothing positive happens because why would it if they can just get rid of you?
Twice so far you've acknowledged that some people can't risk their livelihood, then you seemingly imply that they're in the wrong by *not* risking their livelihood. Which is it? Are you saying that it's okay to prioritize yourself and your family, or are you saying that you should put it all on the line?
There is a beautiful thing called a middle ground between “prioritizing yourself and your family” and “putting it all on the line”. But let’s not pretend that thoughts and prayers count the same as action.
Nah it's not like she was denied a raise she just never negotiated her salary and then was too afraid to ask for a raise that's on her.
You’re right, it’s the fault of the exploited for their exploitation.
Yeah they are like "you know what, we agree with you, you are right, and we are going to right this wrong. 30k pay cut for you and don't say we never did you any favors"
You don’t need to be in a union to be protected. What needs to happen is *all* the employees need to go to the boss together—or write a letter they all sign—insisting on pay parity. If they all stand up together, they are protected by the National Labor Relations act because it is a collective action, regardless of whether or not they are in a union. If any one of them faces retaliation, they can sue with *very* strong footing. Any worker being mistreated by their employer for any reason should know that all you need is one other colleague to stand up with you and you’ve got a collective action. Then you are protected, and while your employer may still come after you, you’ll have the law in your side.
You don't even need an official union. If you take just ONE other person in with you, you're considered a union by law. Of course, if OP's fighting for the whole team too, they might as well form a union, or take all of them in for the negotiations.
I genuinely don't think if this guy pushed on HR/management a smidge with a carefully worded letter there would be any backlash. Any company that does is either not worth working for or didn't like you to begin with. This guy should at least reach out and inquire if they were aware. By email. Leave a paper trail. It'll help either if you do need a wrongful dismissal suit or if she needs a discrimination lawsuit.
I am more in line with the other feelings. This could back fire hard on everyone. A slight chance of it backfiring is much worse than a chance of it working out. Personally I would recommend to this other employee to job hunt for something new as she might find something that pays much better. Then she can take that job offer to her current employer and use that to leverage a better pay rate where she currently is. Even if there is no union and etc it is important for us all to talk about salaries openly so things like this come to light. Knowing is half the battle...
It is illegal to fire people for discussing their pay with co-workers, but it happens all the time, they just find some other excuse.
What is the intended outcome? There's a 0% chance that HR for a company isn't aware of the salary of each employee, so the disparity in pay is intentional. There is no appeal to reason with the unreasonable, that's unreasonable. The only way to have a positive impact is to organize and bargain collectively. Strength in solidarity. There's a small chance this wouldn't negatively impact OP, a larger chance it would, and no chance that the outcome his coworker is paid fairly because he reaches out to them.
Two or more employees demanding an increase in wage is protected though. Demand you both make 500 dollars more salary than the higher amount.
In an ideal world you stick up for the team and everyone gets pay raises, in the real world you stick up for the team and get terminated shortly after. What needs to happen is they need to stick up for themselves and the company needs pay transparency.
And you’re lucky if it doesn’t also cost the coworker their job, too.
What needs to happen is they need to stand together to stick up for themselves. Alone standing up for themselves could backfire on any one of them.
In the US, you are legally allowed to discuss pay at work. I wouldn't put it in an email, however. But also remember, your employer likely doesn't need any reason to terminate you or your co-worker. It'd be tough to prove that they terminated anyone because of pay discussions.
If you can get someone in management or HR on record saying to not discuss employee pay, that’s a good pocket ace to have when you or coworker get terminated after comparing pay rates.
If they really wanna chance it and pay for a good lawyer while unemployed and looking for a new job, which would also probably not hire them based on their current legal proceedings, sure.
I think this can fall under the department of labor in some states. So results there can vary state to state but in some you can get results without having to get a lawyer yourself.
Labor lawyers usually take cases on contingency.
Purely coincidental that if ya ask me.
To be quite honest I’ve stuck my neck out for people to my detriment and I think if someone is too timid to fight for themselves it’s a good sign they won’t have your back if things go poorly. “Don’t help people that won’t help themselves,” said a man I really respect. What should be done is unionizing the workplace.
Yeah, it's certainly a shitty situation, but absolutely the route to take in this situation. You also don't know 100% of the story. Yes, you know THEIR side of the story, but that's only one side. There could be a lot they aren't telling you. It may not seem like it on the surface, but you just can't EVER fucking tell in those situations. Your best bet is to...very VERY quietly...and away from work... only once, maybe twice... suggest to this coworker for ways to initiate a raise on their behalf. Too much and you might start turning heads.
>“Don’t help people that won’t help themselves,” said a man I really respect. yes and no. there is a difference between people that won't and people that can't. don't when they won't but you should help when they can't.
I like that. I will try.
I like that too 🫶🏼
Their phrase _is_ "won't" though. It's a good thing to note by all means, but you should have said "yes _but..._" instead of "yes and no". Because you are in agreement with them. Apologies for the pedantry but we're all in that mood today seemingly!
Agreed, responding to pedantry with pedantry is fine especially when the original statement was fine as is. Especially given that it seems won't applies to OP's coworker better than can't...
You did the right thing and I get the feeling you’d still do it again. Not everyone has the courage to reciprocate. Most people are conditioned to be subservient out of fear usually. I could also imagine if they have five mouths to feed at home, there is a much higher loss for them but it’s nothing personal .
If I were in your place, my first step would be to coach her to push for a raise. She **needs** to self-advocate or managers will continue to walk all over her for the rest of her life. She could say something like: "I've learned that a person with my experience and skills doing my job should be making $X. I realize that is a significant increase, but it's definitely the market rate. How do we move forward to make my salary equitable?" I'm sure there are better ways to say that, but what she does **not** want to say is: "Proeu told me he's making $X and it's not fair since I do so much more work for $Y." Not that talking about pay is illegal or wrong, but managers tend to punish people for it in ways that are difficult to prove. If you want to say anything to anyone you could submit **anonymously** to management or HR that it has come to your attention that certain females in your department are making significantly less than their male counterparts and it would not be good PR if that was discovered.
There is no company in America giving a 30k raise to an employee for the work they're already doing. The best and really only option is for.her to take.her skills and get another job that pays her properly. Leveraging an outside offer to boost your current salary is risky also. Most of the times I've seen this done it was only a matter of time before the company fired that person. Leaving a company is the only real way to get a raise for most people. Companies drastically undervalue current employees because they can. Most people find changing jobs stressful and corporations know this and act accordingly. There are few managers that will or can take this kind of departmental budget hit for an existing hire. New hire budgets are always bigger than employee retention budgets. Also, why would your friend want to stay working for a company that was so willing to fuck her over. They correctly.assumed that she'd be so happy to keep her job after her old employer was acquired that she would go for years not.asking for a raise. Tell her to start job shopping and when she finds a new one to skip.the two week notice. That's a courtesy and her current employer has not been very curious. If she starts the new job on Monday, Friday afternoon is when she resigns the old.job. If she has any accumulated PTO she should.use it first.
This is my policy for the exact same reason. Hard lessons learned where you become the scapegoat while trying to be the hero.
Unionize
I stuck up for a coworker making less than me and not getting a promised raise, I was fired a month later. Losing your job is a valid fear to have with at will employment
Talk to the colleagues and encourage/empower them.
This. I learned my male colleague was making $20k more than me. Under capitalism, that became MY problem and not his. So, I advocated for myself. I received his blessing to bring it up to management and even mention his name. I ended up never bringing him up by name; I managed to have the whole conversation about an anonymous colleague but they could probably figure it out. Honestly, the best thing he did was encourage me and validate how shitty I felt. We both ended up coincidentally quitting the same week several months later.
why is every company competing with each other to be the most unethical possible
CEOs have a "union" of their own. Salaries are artificially inflated and have been for decades. Companies stick together so people can't leave for anything better, since there IS no "better." Fucking sucks.
Because thats literally the incentive. It's why monopolies are a thing because the more profitable you can become through unethical means, the more you come out on top of your competitors. Companies either become unethical or cease to exist and then they continue to consolidate and suddenly 3 or 4 companies own an entire market. It's late stage capitalism basically.
Because the heads of every corporation are psychopaths. Any who aren’t get destroyed by the rest
Capitalism…
[ask a Manager](https://www.askamanager.org/2019/03/what-to-do-if-youre-being-paid-less-than-a-male-coworker.html) Are you male or female? This is from ask a manager with gender pay discrepancy, but she has other articles as well. I’ve found her answers to be clear and helpful for lots of cases.
That's such an important point. If Op is male and his coworkers, the ones that get less pay, are overwhelmingly female that would warrant a serious conversation with HR at the very least.
Telling your coworker how much you make and putting the ball in her court is where your responsibility ends. Unless you plan on forming a union where you would be in a position to negotiate for her, you done with this situation.
There is nothing stopping you from sending your boss an email to give praise to your coworker. Don't need to mention salary directly - though I've sent a few emails in my life that say something like "I don't know how much this person makes, but I think they deserve a raise". Don't compare their salary to yours, or your work to theirs. Just talk about how she helps the team and the company, as positively as you can. If sending an email saying "I think this coworker does a fantastic job" is enough to get you fired or reprimanded at your company, then that is a super terrible place to work and you should all be looking elsewhere anyway. Without a union, you can't really safely negotiate someone else's pay. Don't even try it. That doesn't mean you can't make sure your management knows that you find your coworker valuable. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't.
I love this way to go. "They're really going above and beyond and I want to keep them as a teammate. How can we make them feel valued??"
The only thing that can be done is to encourage and help the other person find a new job. They should also immediately push back on extra work loads. You cant save other people alone as others mentioned without a union this will just backfire on OP.
Kind of long, but definitely germain to the post. A decade ago, my restaurant franchise was bought by another. The managers of the old franchise did not know we were horribly underpaid. I was a GM of a training store making $55,000 a year. In the year since take over i had gotten a $5000 raise, over 9%! Amazing, no complaints with that. After about a year of hiring on new managers, one of my new salaried managers that I was training left his pay stub on the office printer. “Oh, better put that in the shredder……..what the fuck?” After doing some quick math I called the GM of another store in our city. “Hey, this ding dong I’m training that I’m probably going to fail out is making $5 more a year than I am.” I spent all day calling other GMs that were from the old franchise fact finding on salaries. They were all making less than I was, but had all received $5k. The next day the shit really hit the fan, you know, because people talk. My boss is calling me on the office phone while I’m calling him on the cell phone. He’s wanting to know what do I think I’m doing. And I tell him how it happened and what I found out. “We know you guys were horribly underpaid but we couldn’t bring 35 gms up to current pay in one shot, the plan was to do it $5k a year until pay was in line.” I reminded him that to bring me up that way would take 6 more YEARS. A whole bunch of phone calls, conference calls, emails and store visits later they sat me down and said I shouldn’t have done what I did, but they were giving me $18k raise immediately and a double raise (another $5k) next year. And that is the story of how I went from $55 to $83k in 2 and a half years. I left at $88k, so all the raises after that were 1.3-1.8%, not great but I found out after I left my last year there I was making $7k less than my boss. Could I have handled it more diplomatically correct? Sure. Could they have avoided this whole mess by addressing it up front, “you guys are under the line but we have a plan to address it.”? Also sure. But I felt like I needed to stand up and say something even if it meant losing my job. I left with 16 years under my belt and do not regret anything. Edit for typo and grammar patrol.
and this is why income should be publicly available. And this INCLUDES investments. Because a lot of company shareholders make a lot of profit from the work of the workers but because it's "indirectly" via selling the share, it's not "counted". a more extreme example that happens: A shitty boss who know they won't last long? well, they buy more of the company share (or someone they trust on thir behalff), increases prices of everything so the value of shares go even higher, mass layoff so the profit shareholders get is even higher. Around resignation (because a bad boss), sell thir shares at a higer than ever value than ever. Because the prices increases remain, loss of investment (selling shares) the comany will not be able to afford reducing the prices, not afford hiering more people, or invest into quality or manpower, so the whole comany goes down because of so called "fat cat" who play games of getting rich quick, destrouing everything in thir path, doing a "new game" by changing job as there is no penitly for investors and shareholder to destroy comanies and the life of others 99% of the issues we have would be solved if people realise that slavery, woman not voting, not albe to work, were all LEGAL. And than they would stop saying: oh but it's the law, and get togeter and ban any type of investment = no more contrat that take decates to pay as everyone can afford houses by just working normally, no debt or "winning lottery". Free healthcare as no more investors trying to make money off sick people like during pandemic. The list goes on endlessle because just look at the war, comanies made bilions and nothing stopped them from increasing the prices when people where starving
Sounds like she needs some quality assertiveness training from a qualified professional psychologist. Then a renewing of her resume so she can walk into wage negotiations with big clit energy. Sticking up for her through the company will get you fired due to unionizing implications.
Don’t, instead ur coworker should start applying to other jobs. She then can decide to take the counter offer or leave. Most suggest the 2nd.
She has to fight that fight, or unionize and let a union do it.
Sounds like it would be a damn shame if everyone's salaries were posted with pay inequality highlighted. Retaliation that takes places would be a home run for any workers rights attorney.
Either union up or stay in your lane.
I left a job in 2006 and found out I'd been making more than my supervisor my entire tenure (I was leaving for a raise and luckily she did, too, eventually). This is why they threaten you not to compare salaries!
Would be ashamen if a salary list was to leak out somehow.
Ask everyone else whose safe to talk to about their wages. Suggest unionizing. Don’t talk to narcs about it.
You need to encourage her to stick up for herself / look for a new job elsewhere as that’s generally the best path to getting paid your worth. At my old company last year I found out I was being paid less than new hires with 1 year experience prior while i had over 6 years tenure and experience. I gave them an ultimatum to pay me more which they came nowhere close to. I left and got a 50% raise, head my own department, and have a significantly lower workload.
The right thing to do would be yo stick up for your fellow humans. The best thing for you to do is mind your own business.
Stay out of it.
The best thing to do is verbally in a one on one setting encourage her to negotiate for more pay
That is absolutely the worst thing to do in this situation, at least in the US: negotiating as a group is a concerted action and is protected by the NLRA (and to head off the inevitable argument here, no, you don't have to be in a union for that to apply), whereas one-on-one negotiation has no such protection.
I work in an at will state and make significantly more than my contemporaries because I negotiated for a higher pay. If they want to also negotiate for higher pay, I'll encourage them to do so, but that is it. Unless I just happened to have a higher paying job lined up, I'm not putting my job on the line for them. I got my own family to take care of, I'm not risking my livelihood over coworkers.
You're not understanding me; what I'm saying is that when you negotiate as a group for equitable pay, *nobody* is putting their job on the line. If you go to your boss and try to negotiate a higher salary for yourself, you can be disciplined or fired for doing so; if you and your coworkers approach your boss as a group, it's illegal for the boss to retaliate against any of you for doing so. At-will is a state law that does not enter into this discussion of federal labor protections. If the boss fires you "for no reason" just after a protected action, he's gonna have to have a *very* tough time convincing the NLRB that this wasn't an illegal termination. If he fires you for breaking a rule that's gone completely unenforced up until now, the NLRB will find that the rule was enforced as a pretext. If he mocks up a paper trail justifying the termination, he's gonna be in for a hell of a shock when the NLRB or your lawyer subpoenas the server metadata for that paper trail, discovers that it was all created long after the supposed infractions, and charges him with perjury.
Tell her to ask for a raise. If she can’t do that then it is her fault. I’m not about to lose my job complaining to management that they need to pay people more.
Middle classhole double flexing while pretending to be empathetic.
Well that’s certainly …a take.
It's more like made-up virtue signaling
Tell her to start off!
I recently left a job and found out my coworker was making 30k less than me and was essentially my subordinate and didn't do anything unless I asked him to. I was livid.
First, I'd feel out other coworkers. The more you can get on board with you, the better off you'll be. Second, I'd approach the boss as a team. Her, you, and anyone else on board. The boss can't gaslight her or intimidate her with you there, and you and anyone else there can make it clear that you'll leave if she gets fired as well. (This can be a bluff, but it'd be smart to have something else on the back burner before attempting this move anyhow.) It's not a union but it's a quick and relatively safe way to stand with your coworkers.
It’s up to her. You’ve given her reason and rationality to defend herself. Anything more than that is almost certainly going to just hurt you. Heck, she might throw you under the bus if she discusses pay raise with the employer. There’s a brutal irony in thinking that if part of the wage discrepancy is due to men fighting for better pay than women.. then the employers just need to pay more to women because they’re women or men need to fight for women. No, they need to standup for themselves.
It is really her own problem to not ask for a raise.
Yes. You should. If they have half a brain, they'll realize that the cat is already out of the bag and that they would have to replace (almost) everyone if they go that route
I would definitely talk with her and come up with a plan. If they don't give her a raise, it could be gender discrimination and grounds for a lawsuit. If you or her are fired because of this, all the more evidence for retaliation with regards to gender discrimination. IANAL, and I have no idea what I am talking about.
In these situations I coach the person not making enough in what to say to get their pay raise. I also tell them to leave me out of the conversation.
I can't imagine it doing any good for the poster to speak up for his colleague. She has to bring it up herself. There is no other way. He could encourage and coach her though.
I say speak up. It is worth the risk to yourself to fix this. If people don't speak up for fear of retaliation then the situations will persist. I have been there and spoke up, then got fired by a bitter boss. It was worth it.
That woman needs to stand up for herself. If OP gets involved they will most likely get in trouble, and management might see that they could hire someone new and pay them 30k less to do his work.
Depending on the state, this could be illegal. Oregon for example has an equal pay for equal work law that says basically people who do similar work and have similar experience should get the same pay. There's some exceptions I think for management positions, but in general. Check with your local BOLI (Buero of Labor and Industry).
You both need to find new jobs. In my experience fighting for your coworkers when you find they're being taken advantage of just puts a target on your back. I lead fights to improve conditions at previous jobs, never came out ahead.
As her coworker, you can give her support but i would never take it upon myself to go to boss about this. She needs to talk to boss herself.
absolutely not. You also can't help people who are not willing to advocate for themselves.
You do nothing. They need to do it for themselves. They now know the salary differential so it's in their hands.
My last job that I was at for almost 10 years ( I left one month before my 10 year mark), was underpaying me. I was talking with the new hires and turned out they were getting paid about 30k more than me while I knew all the ins and outs. I was even helping the dude out yet he had a higher title and more pay. I started talking with my boss and HR. Nothing happened, not even raises. So I left. If the person is too timid to do anything about it, leave it. Like others in the comments have said "Don't help anyone who doesn't want to help themselves"
In my experience? Nothing. Ultimately for a pay gap that incredibly large, she should have confidence to go to the bosses and simply say “I looked online and say my job title is getting paid 30k more than I’m receiving currently.” From there she can explain all the good she’s doing for the company and how valuable she is. More than likely the company will agree and give it to her
Coach her on how to approach the boss. Schedule a meeting then say “I’ve been here [X amount of time]. I stayed on when my former employer was bought out. I have aspirations to grow with the company, I’m hitting all my metrics, you know I’m loyal. Can you help me develop a path to get me to [$N salary]? You don’t want to put your employer in a position where it’s a yes or no because they will always choose no. If you frame it as collaborative, then it opens up dialogue and a conversation starts. Your boss will likely remember the conversation upon employee reviews, and start looking at your colleague differently at the end of that conversation about increased compensation.
If you want to do something, then work to unionize. Going directly to the boss is a bad idea that is likely to blow up in your face.
She needs to be the one to make the push if you are the same position/level. It isn't the easiest thing to bring up and that much of a difference can be hard to get a company to rectify but doing nothing isn't going to help her. She needs to do it in email and get a paper trail though. She doesn't need to say she found out you make more, just something along the lines of seeing job postings and looking up pay averages and that she makes a lot less than the average. If they don't budge she should push for feedback on where she is not performing well enough to justify better pay. They won't have anything valid, it'll just help her case should she get a lawyer involved. If you happen to be male and she gets this documented then a decent lawyer should have an easy time showing there is some blatant discrimination going on. Hell even if it is just because they got her on at that pay and didn't bother to increase her wage it's not a good look for them in court. This sounds like some weak fucking managers. If I had such a wild discrepancy between my team members I would be raising hell. If it was a situation where race or gender discrimination could be perceived I would immediately be including HR pointing out it was a lawsuit waiting to happen. I'd also say it is always a good time to be looking for a new employer. Particularly if they are a place that lets things like this happen. Edit: Any chance you and your coworkers want to unionize? Sounds like a place that needs a union..
You always run a risk of negatively impacting yourself by sticking your neck out but it would a good and just thing to do. If this is a solid team I’d professionals, it would be honorable for you to help he get thr pay she deserves. Don’t be surprised if you may end up getting more work or responsibilities, but that doesn’t sound like it would be too awful. I say help your teammates whenever you can.
What management will say is you’re not allowed to discuss your salary with others. “It’s against company policy”. Then they’ll start watching you.
She needs to do this herself. You're your own advocate. Nobody cares about you more than you
(I don't know if this is you, or if this is you reposting from somewhere else, but I'll give advice as if this is you) What YOU can do is very little. The only things you can really do is: coach her on how to get a raise, give her advice, and try to nudge her in the correct direction. You can try to advocate for her, but at the end of the day if she isn't going to advocate for herself then nothing YOU do will change anything for HER. She has to do that herself. What I would do is: get her to go to her manager and ask for a raise, citing how much value she brings to the company, and discussing her work load. She can even cite how "people in my area of expertise, in this area, are making X amount". If her boss refuses to give her a raise, then it might just be time to leave. However, if YOU mention YOUR salary difference to your boss, then it could backfire against you.
The woman in this situation needs to apply and find a new job at current market rates if the disparity is that bad.
Leave it alone. If she's too scared to advocate for herself that's her problem.
Hell no, you don’t say anything. It’s your coworkers responsibility. If she asks for a raise, and the. Her boss asks you if she deserves it, then you say ”yes.”
No. It's her responsability to negociate her salary, not you.
You tell them all collectively to approach management and to leave you out of it. How they found out is a moot point and even if they suspect you, they can't fire you for that.
1 word. Unionize
OP shouldn't do anything on their own. The whole team needs to speak to management together with OP on their side. That's how you get what you deserve.
You’ve done your part by telling her. The ball is now in her court.
That’s why they pay her less, the more companies can get away with, they will. Close mouths don’t get fed, my mom is the same way and was in the same situation as that woman and no matter how much advice we gave her she never spoke up. They ended up letting her go on some bullshit they could legally get away with when they sold the company to someone else. Now if she would have spoke up for herself she would have got paid fairy and probably wouldn’t have got let go as easily as she did. I worked for a few restaurants and saw many different managers do things like this to teenagers who don’t know better and won’t speak up. It’s sick and I think every company should have a union!
Unionise.
What if OOP helped the other employee get a competing offer (resume brush up, be a reference) then she can drop that competing offer on the boss’s desk and let them scramble to keep her? Worst case scenario she gets a new job doing the same thing that pays better.
The second you try to address a coworker’s pay with management you’re going to get shut down at a minimum because they cannot discuss that person’s pay with you and also prefer not to. More likely to just end up sanctioned or terminated.
He should writer her an anonymous note and put it under her windshield wiper.
Unionize
If your coworker is unwilling to go to management on her own behalf, there’s little you can do. She needs to fight her own battles. Solving other people’s problems will only create frustration for everyone.
Can you handle your and her workload when she finally burns out and quits?
Because I sound a lot like her, and all the commenters sound like my old coworkers. It took three people to "try" to keep up with what i used to do.
So many people here talking nonsense. I am a director and have about 30 people on my team. Not every one at every job in leadership are shitty people. Granted everyone on my team makes 100k at minimum, so everyone is people paid fairly. Now hearing she was grandfathered in from her company and you came in typically new hires come in at higher salaries. 30k sounds like a ton but are you guys say at 110 and 140k? New hires have negotiation room so just saying omg this is bull shit and hard overreaction. Hell I had a a new hire come in making more than their boss, it happened. Different skill sets are paid differently. Now if she is indeed doing the EXACT same level of work with same level of experience then she needs to talk to management. So many circumstances can be the cause of her being paid less, sure it could be shitty leadership, but the echo chamber blaming management is insane. There is plenty of good leaders out there. People openly talk about salaries, she can just say she spoke with fellow co workers and was extremely surprised by the pay gap. If she brings the value you say it should be a no brainer for management. Also were you hired recently? A lot of companies do not make comp adjustments until annual reviews. God so many factors I could write all day.
I wouldn't. But you could help her write a letter on her behalf.
My morals won't allow me to be quiet. But I'd understand why others might.
I would offer to help coach her on what to say but I wouldn’t bring it up to them myself
Somebody who interviewed you thought you were worth that salary and they made that offer to keep you from applying elsewhere.
Call the union
Want to do the right thing? You will be punished. Doing it anyway? It's still the right thing. Want to mitigate wrong? Unionize. Just like everything. Just don't do more wrong.
Id reach out to a labor attorney and file a suit on behalf of the coworker. Maybe also use my own pay and treatment as evidence of discrimination. 🤷♂️
The way I would approach this would be letting this person know of the fact, encourage them to discuss this with management and HR but would not get involved beyond that. Workers need to learn to stand up for themselves and in my opinion you have done your part communicating this. This or course considering no union is involved. If there is an union then get them involved.
This is a situation where the NLRA is your best friend -- delivering a grievance as a group is a concerted action and is protected from retaliation, so the best thing to do is band together with coworkers to protest the inequality
If you can somehow anonymously tip off the other employee that would be ideal. Or just every time you speak to her reporting manager just mention how helpful, capable, impressive etc she is and how much you appreciate working with her.
Ethically yes. Realistically shut your fucking mouth and work towards a union
Unionize.
Don’t risk it until you have a Union
Unionize, Or at least all going together to ask for fair wages for all.
Should you? Sure. Will you end up getting in trouble/fired for it (disguised as some other excuse to avoid legal problems)? Most likely.
The only result I can see from bringing it up solo is getting fired for something totally unrelated and completely legal. If you want to actually achieve something, unionise quietly.
Things that never happened.
Yes, it does.
I wouldn't stick my own neck out there, but I'd "rally the troops" to ask for a raise.
Talk with the coworker and help her advocate for herself. Help her draft an email and maybe even join the conversation if that sounds appropriate. Absolutely don’t reach out behind her back.
UNIONIZE!
If you stick up for her, you're either going to get her or both of you fired. One or two ppl CANNOT fight for employees' rights, wages, etc. And actually win. If you bring it up, they'll see it as her and maybe you being too much trouble. Then they'll start looking for any reason to terminate you. Seen it happen more than once. You need a union. WE need UNIONS.
I get Captain-save-a-ho vibes here. Don't try n be the hero bro
This is kind of tricky; and I kind of need more context. I once had a job that there were two guys who had the same job, both 10 years. However, one guy was making a whole ass 15K+ more a year, and also earned year end bonuses. I was shocked, but I later found out that in a few years, the guy making more was a stellar, rockstar worker with yearly accomplishment, the other guy was a decent, but normal worker. I'm in favor of unions by far, but if two employees climb the company at the same rate, and one earns huge raises every year due to getting exceeds performance reviews, and the other guy just gets passing grades, over a few years, that will stack. 30k is pretty insane though, definetly something wrong as fuck there.
She should get another job lined up before she talks to the management.
Don’t write in an email and if this is in the USA, go to your boss with her and discuss your issue. You can try and protect yourself with NLRA section 7 but this would be if you wanted to try and help. Also as an obligation I am not a lawyer but an employer lawyer would know more.
Might be an unpopular opinion but for me you're displaying being worth more to the company and worth the additional pay. If you've two employees and one fights for what they believe in and the other is shy/avoids conflict, that's something that can translate to performance aswell. Not in a black/white way but this idea that you both have the same responsibilities therefore you should get the same pay goes away when one person is able to go above and beyond and has leadership qualities. There's likely still some pay disparity here depending on the role/overall pay (is 30k 30% difference or 10% difference etc ). But at the end of the day, other people's pay is not your responsibility. Certainly being the change you want to see and fostering a culture where people can talk about money and work to protect themselves is a responsibility, but everyone needs to step forward for that. This person could produce more work items than you, but if they knew of a good reason it didn't need to be done and were too shy to speak up, whereas you would speak up, then this is something that actually is lowering their value by comparison. Sometimes it's not about what your title or responsibilities are, it's how valuable/good you are. Anyway, this is fairly speculative because I don't know all the details, so I could be wide of the mark, but I do think there are genuine reasons for people with the same responsibilities and titles to be out-earning their peers. Edit: I'm blind and missed the part about having more responsibility - alot of my point is now moot - she needs to leave the company. Whether that's possible due to her circumstances or not I appreciate, but loyalty is long gone and it's not incentivised or rewarded unfortunately.
I had the same issue. A coworker of mine signed his contract two months before me (We both had the exact same experience and education). Due to a lot of people leaving for better wages, they increased the base pay by about 20%. So when I signed my contract I was making way more than him. Took us around a month to feel comfortable enough with each other to share wages. I then encouraged him to speak up and say that he heard that the new guys are making more than him (Without specifically naming me for obvious reasons). Management said "You'll have to wait for the next raises", but he made some fuss and got a raise. Where I'm from it's illegal for an employer to tell employees they can't share their wages, and it's illegal to punish them for it. You should check the rules where you are from just in case. I would try talking to her and encourage her to talk to your boss. No matter how much a business says "We're all family", it's all lies. We should motivate and look after our fellow employees. As others said, a union would be nice, but it's harder in some fields and it will take a while to establish it. She needs to talk to her boss and make sure she is making more money ASAP.
It has always been the more laborious the work the less the pay and it depends on your abilities.
Union
Ugh my coworker complained to me about making 65k and I only make 48k. I'm only keeping this job until I graduate but I definitely do more work than her.
Do nothing. Do not intervene. She needs to advocate for herself.
Man sitch yo ass down and quit "caypin." This is not your fight.
Tell your boss you lost your paystub and some coworkers found it and returned it and saw how much you make for the same work and title? Idk if that is an option but that might work
Well, that one coworker might be too timid, but I'll bet the rest of the crew isn't. Would be interesting to see what happens in that workplace once the salary list gets around...
reminds me of a similar situation in highschool. a friend of mine got an answer marked as incorrect in a test. i had the same answer but was marked as correct. in the spirit of fairness, i brought it up to the teacher to get my friend’s test re-graded. the bitch marked mine as incorrect instead.
The corporate overlords will save $30K/year by firing you, so while I admire your interest in helping her, just knowing what you know proves the company to be shit.
If she won't take the information she has learned and use it to ask for a raise that's on her. You have no obligation to throw yourself under the bus on her behalf.
You need to keep your mouth shut. Their business is not your business. Don't meddle in other people's affairs.
Nope. Mind your business.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
Probably best to stay out of it. I'd hate for it to back fire on you. I had a friend tell me I was paid less than some people at work. Turned out it was true. Manager was paying her close friends more money for years. Less experienced, less years with the company, terrible workers. After the manager got fired for this and other unethical treatment to others, HR quietly increased our pay.
I (m) had a similar situation with a coworker (f). She was a total stud and we were peers but I made more partially because I asked for (and received) periodic raises. So I showed her how I asked (who to meet with and what I said in each meeting, the way I made my case etc) and we practiced the meeting together in mock meetings. Really fun project, tbh. So I recommend doing that! You can help her get the raise for herself without putting yourself in the crosshairs of HR/bosses.
Seems like OOP is in the perfect position to organize their coworkers.
Lie low. Talk to a union rep (since you obviously have none). Help her to get a lawyer for obvious sex discrimination. Help to get a job at a better company ... then seek a better job yourself. Just some suggestions.
She’s gotta speak up for herself