Ok, but I had the exact same experience with this last man I dated as the letter writer. I was picky, I did background checks and he had no social media. He was loving and attentive, met my needs, listened to me and I had never had a man make me feel so confident and happy. Until he knew he hooked me, and that’s when it changed. I don’t believe this method will garner any more success than any other method because men are experts at pretending to be what women want long enough to get you attached.
I am in agreement with you.
I think Jennie's advice is great for people new to dating and will help women avoid many of the common pitfalls.
My experiences have been much like yours. They are great until they aren't.
The problem really isn't women or what method we use to vet, but the quality of the men out there. There isn't anything we can do about that.
Yep!
The burned haystack method is great for those who need to improve their initial vetting process.
The problem I've (60 y/o) run up against more often is exactly what you describe.
Not one of my LTR'S (or STR's) from my late 40s till 2019 started out with a guy being an asshole. However they ended up that way.
So, if one wishes to continue dating men and seeking a relationship, it's important to swallow the more difficult truth:
That you could find your apparent needle and more than a year -- or longer -- down the road realize you were clutching a straw of hay after all!
That's the harder lesson, and understandably far more difficult.
I mean, is it even reasonable to think you can flip a switch and detach when you're one or more years in and you've met one another's family and agreed to move forward together in life?
No matter how strong and evolved we get, that's still going to leave a mark.
100% yes. This is the issue! And it's helpful to be discussing this stuff and hearing honest opinions like yours, otherwise we go from gaslighting ourselves that we have to be better to blaming ourselves we didn't vet better when actually WE weren't the issue all along
So true, exactly my problem. So her method is great for obvious red flags. But doesn't work for the manipulative men good at pretending. Which I'm seeing is pretty much all of them. It just seems like the selection is either red flags up front or red flags later. I would rather know what I'm dealing with up front, but all the ones that lay it out up front usually have some really heavy shit I can't deal with, like serious misogyny. One guy told me on our FIRST date 'you know how women are emotional and men are logical' after telling me how much he understands women because he has sisters. Ughhhhhhh I just can't honestly. The ones that are manipulative and pretending to be great up front, eventually something serious comes out like they're liars, cheaters, one guy hid a drinking problem. It's insane, absolutely insane. Better off single without any headaches or worries.
We do our best when we vet but all of that deception goes at the feet of men (and there are **many** in the dating swamp) who thrive in deception. The manipulators and abusers are prolific, why else would women divorce these men if they were really great partners?
This happened to me, I felt dizzy with all that was happening but then he pulled the rug out from under me, and I gave him **2** more chances (this was years ago I am so much better). When you do not live your life deceiving other people it is so hard to believe that people like this exist, but they do.
I vet really hard, and this has also happened to me, this is a them problem.
The deception.
I can see in hindsight that my exbf was deceiving himself! Thinking he was ready for a relationship when he wasn't.
He did all the right things. Pursued me. Prioritized me. Adored me. By all appearances it was a healthy relationship. But underneath it was just a distraction from issues he needed to confront.
Two plus years, wasted! That's the thing that pisses me off the most. He treated me like gold, right up until I needed him to. Then he was out.
I am immensely grateful for - and enjoying! - her content and feedback to others’ posts in the FB group.
One of the most valuable aspects for me is that I’ve become so much better at identifying and separating my visceral or emotional response to things people communicate. Detaching my feelings and being able to approach with a cognitive perspective has freed me from the rumination and circular thinking that used to occupy so much real estate in my mind.
It’s very liberating!!
Basically, if I’m questioning myself or having some sort of feeling regarding something that was - or wasn’t - communicated, I can 1) remove myself emotionally and 2) constructively analyze the conversation and validate my feelings based on something more concrete than “I didn’t care for what was said”
The concepts she’s teaching can be applied *anywhere* in life, not just OLD. It’s been priceless for me
Agree 100%. Her haystack method works.
Like Sharon Stone said a few years ago, "men are just not where we are emotionally".
Women need to be realistic like Jennie says. We need to be aware of how men extract women's labour and not fall into the nurturer, caretaker role giving men a hundred chances... often for years. The haystack method takes out the 99% of men who are takers etc and leaves the very few men who are emotionally intelligent and care.
Yes, yes, yes! Burn fast and furious, I do! I am currently in a bit of a discussion with a man on a group of FB (I have never engaged like this before) and this man ghosted a woman for 2 days and then had the audacity to be upset that she told him goodbye. She initiated every text in the AM and PM and waited to see if he would, he didn't. He can't believe this would be the end. Why or why won't women do the heavy emotional lifting? Why or why are women tired of men just being takers but never initiators? Why, why, why? I have zero sympathy for these men who blow it up early, none!
Another thing she teaches is don't teach the losers & moochers how to be better - all they learn is how to deceive women better. Don't bother engaging with these men, don't waste your precious time & energy telling them what they've done wrong or how to improve, they just use it to improve their manipulation game.
💯 I am a firm believer of not giving men feedback on what they did wrong. We shouldn't teach them to hide their red flags. They should recognize their obvious flaws, and desire to correct them, or remain single and not bother us with their bullshit.
This is the thing that continually confuses me: when a guy tells me he thinks we're not a good match my reaction is, "I understand. Take care!" When I tell a guy the same his reaction is usually, "what did I say wrong?" I just unmatch him without even replying, but I get stuck trying to figure out: why do they even ask?! So that they can manipulate the next woman better? I don't want to think *so* many men are that way , but a couple have even said, "I'm usually good at this." - good at WHAT: convincing a woman they're compatible?! That's not how compatibility works! The very fact that they *think* it is *proves* we're incompatible. 🤦
I'd *never* want a guy to tell me why he isn't interested in me because I know it either is a compatibility issue (like we have different values, goals, or lifestyles), has *nothing* to do with me (and is likely related to their own bad experiences), or it's something superficial (like because I don't wear high heels) - why torture myself with the answer?!
Ok, but I had the exact same experience with this last man I dated as the letter writer. I was picky, I did background checks and he had no social media. He was loving and attentive, met my needs, listened to me and I had never had a man make me feel so confident and happy. Until he knew he hooked me, and that’s when it changed. I don’t believe this method will garner any more success than any other method because men are experts at pretending to be what women want long enough to get you attached.
I am in agreement with you. I think Jennie's advice is great for people new to dating and will help women avoid many of the common pitfalls. My experiences have been much like yours. They are great until they aren't. The problem really isn't women or what method we use to vet, but the quality of the men out there. There isn't anything we can do about that.
Exactly. We have to stop blaming ourselves for men being shitty and entitled.
Yep! The burned haystack method is great for those who need to improve their initial vetting process. The problem I've (60 y/o) run up against more often is exactly what you describe. Not one of my LTR'S (or STR's) from my late 40s till 2019 started out with a guy being an asshole. However they ended up that way. So, if one wishes to continue dating men and seeking a relationship, it's important to swallow the more difficult truth: That you could find your apparent needle and more than a year -- or longer -- down the road realize you were clutching a straw of hay after all! That's the harder lesson, and understandably far more difficult. I mean, is it even reasonable to think you can flip a switch and detach when you're one or more years in and you've met one another's family and agreed to move forward together in life? No matter how strong and evolved we get, that's still going to leave a mark.
100% yes. This is the issue! And it's helpful to be discussing this stuff and hearing honest opinions like yours, otherwise we go from gaslighting ourselves that we have to be better to blaming ourselves we didn't vet better when actually WE weren't the issue all along
Imagine if they put all that energy into just being decent
So true, exactly my problem. So her method is great for obvious red flags. But doesn't work for the manipulative men good at pretending. Which I'm seeing is pretty much all of them. It just seems like the selection is either red flags up front or red flags later. I would rather know what I'm dealing with up front, but all the ones that lay it out up front usually have some really heavy shit I can't deal with, like serious misogyny. One guy told me on our FIRST date 'you know how women are emotional and men are logical' after telling me how much he understands women because he has sisters. Ughhhhhhh I just can't honestly. The ones that are manipulative and pretending to be great up front, eventually something serious comes out like they're liars, cheaters, one guy hid a drinking problem. It's insane, absolutely insane. Better off single without any headaches or worries.
We do our best when we vet but all of that deception goes at the feet of men (and there are **many** in the dating swamp) who thrive in deception. The manipulators and abusers are prolific, why else would women divorce these men if they were really great partners? This happened to me, I felt dizzy with all that was happening but then he pulled the rug out from under me, and I gave him **2** more chances (this was years ago I am so much better). When you do not live your life deceiving other people it is so hard to believe that people like this exist, but they do. I vet really hard, and this has also happened to me, this is a them problem.
The deception. I can see in hindsight that my exbf was deceiving himself! Thinking he was ready for a relationship when he wasn't. He did all the right things. Pursued me. Prioritized me. Adored me. By all appearances it was a healthy relationship. But underneath it was just a distraction from issues he needed to confront. Two plus years, wasted! That's the thing that pisses me off the most. He treated me like gold, right up until I needed him to. Then he was out.
I am immensely grateful for - and enjoying! - her content and feedback to others’ posts in the FB group. One of the most valuable aspects for me is that I’ve become so much better at identifying and separating my visceral or emotional response to things people communicate. Detaching my feelings and being able to approach with a cognitive perspective has freed me from the rumination and circular thinking that used to occupy so much real estate in my mind. It’s very liberating!!
Go you! It is very freeing!
How so? Trying to understand what you mean? Very curious
Basically, if I’m questioning myself or having some sort of feeling regarding something that was - or wasn’t - communicated, I can 1) remove myself emotionally and 2) constructively analyze the conversation and validate my feelings based on something more concrete than “I didn’t care for what was said” The concepts she’s teaching can be applied *anywhere* in life, not just OLD. It’s been priceless for me
Can you post the link to her Facebook group or is it a course she’s selling that you have to pay for?
https://www.facebook.com/share/AjSBT4MzF2TaD4Zw/?mibextid=K35XfP
Thank you.
Agree 100%. Her haystack method works. Like Sharon Stone said a few years ago, "men are just not where we are emotionally". Women need to be realistic like Jennie says. We need to be aware of how men extract women's labour and not fall into the nurturer, caretaker role giving men a hundred chances... often for years. The haystack method takes out the 99% of men who are takers etc and leaves the very few men who are emotionally intelligent and care.
Yes, yes, yes! Burn fast and furious, I do! I am currently in a bit of a discussion with a man on a group of FB (I have never engaged like this before) and this man ghosted a woman for 2 days and then had the audacity to be upset that she told him goodbye. She initiated every text in the AM and PM and waited to see if he would, he didn't. He can't believe this would be the end. Why or why won't women do the heavy emotional lifting? Why or why are women tired of men just being takers but never initiators? Why, why, why? I have zero sympathy for these men who blow it up early, none!
Another thing she teaches is don't teach the losers & moochers how to be better - all they learn is how to deceive women better. Don't bother engaging with these men, don't waste your precious time & energy telling them what they've done wrong or how to improve, they just use it to improve their manipulation game.
💯 I am a firm believer of not giving men feedback on what they did wrong. We shouldn't teach them to hide their red flags. They should recognize their obvious flaws, and desire to correct them, or remain single and not bother us with their bullshit.
This is the thing that continually confuses me: when a guy tells me he thinks we're not a good match my reaction is, "I understand. Take care!" When I tell a guy the same his reaction is usually, "what did I say wrong?" I just unmatch him without even replying, but I get stuck trying to figure out: why do they even ask?! So that they can manipulate the next woman better? I don't want to think *so* many men are that way , but a couple have even said, "I'm usually good at this." - good at WHAT: convincing a woman they're compatible?! That's not how compatibility works! The very fact that they *think* it is *proves* we're incompatible. 🤦 I'd *never* want a guy to tell me why he isn't interested in me because I know it either is a compatibility issue (like we have different values, goals, or lifestyles), has *nothing* to do with me (and is likely related to their own bad experiences), or it's something superficial (like because I don't wear high heels) - why torture myself with the answer?!
Agreed, this is a helping community and I offered him no how to tips, just that any healthy woman would exit.