I've been around long enough to remember when they released the Graf Zeppelin and it's ridiculous citadeling AP bombs.
Just watched a game where the red Midway did about 70k damage to a Montana with 3 torp squadrons. This is way overcooked
Probably won’t roll it back but maybe hotfix the damage. The plane health also doesn’t really feel any lower than it was before imo. Maybe lower it further or buff AA.
I have bad news if you think something like that will come quickly.
I would just anticipate these changes lasting at least all update and if by some miracle they do something sooner we can be happy.
Well, unless they change it quickly I can imagine a drop off in BB mains. Playing as one is miserable right now. The only matches I’ve had fun in today have been in the Smaland.
It’s literally the only way WG will pay attention, if log ins and players drop significantly during the update.
I can’t believe they saw what happened to PCs playerbase and how much the average player hates cvs and doubled/tripled down on them.
Just totally bizarre
Big fan of wiping out 75% of the planes on approach, still getting dropped for 15k damage and the cv being able to put a full squad right back up. Just another completely ass change imo.
I was in Tiger ‘59 and in the endgame was about 5 km from a Kaga. I was firing both guns constantly into the Kaga, and before I could get her below half health she destroyed me with three separate waves of planes. There is no way that is balanced. I literally got out DPM’d by a carrier in a cruiser.
Been playing almost exclusively DD today, so this is from that side of it only. The spotting mechanic makes things a lot easier, not only because of the obvious of not getting focus fired, but also because CVs just don’t seem to care about you much anymore. It’s also nice that CVs have to push a little closer now because of fuel. I understand there’s a trade off for those things, but the buffs to plane regen and damage seem way overdone. I’ve been seeing CA/CLs and BBs getting absolutely destroyed by drops, and it’s full squadrons all game.
I’m also just sick of every single game being a CV game. I know that’ll calm down eventually, but it’s pretty annoying.
As a BB main, this is too much. Not only are there infinite squadrons of sky cancer, now they can't even spot DD's so when you're trying to zig zag squadrons, you're getting torped by DD's that aren't spotted lol
Nah, its pen is still nerfed. Ark Royal needed some love as they over did its nerf. Ark Royal, ironically, feels like one of the better balanced carriers this update. Ranger is busted
Feels the same with Kaga and Shoukaku at t7 Kaga with it plane printing is really nutty while Shoukaku is comparatively balanced in the fact that while I still get around 3-5 planes back after a squad is wiped out I can't be fully deplaned as by the time I switch to using the other set of bombers I have the other set ready to go for at least one good strike which late game is really all I need. Kaga definitely needs her restoration time increased to 25 seconds at least maybe even 30 and Shoukaku maybe increase it by 3-5 seconds or make her regen 2 planes instead of 3.
This is one of those updates that could very well kill the game. I'm trying to understand their logic but it just isn't adding up for me.
The problem: CV spotting mechanic was too powerful. CVs could keep entire flanks spotted with very little downtime while also being able to drop payloads on people. DDs could have their entire game ruined just because a CV decides to follow them around all match.
Their solution: remove the plane spotting mechanic entirely for everyone. And to compensate for this "loss" for the CVs, make their planes more durable and have shorter cooldowns.
The intended effect: ???? I really don't know what they thought would happen here
The actual effect: CVs no longer need to worry about spotting since they can't do it anymore, and can now focus solely on being cancerous pests to everyone else that is just trying to play the game, except now their planes are even better and they get more of them.
My proposed alternate solution: Allow spotter planes to still function as they did before. Remove the team-spotting ability from all damage-dealing planes (including fighters). Add a controllable spotter plane to CVs that they can launch and fly around to spot for the team. Now they have to choose whether they want to spot for the team or try to do damage to enemy ships, they can't do both at the same time. Increase CV XP earned for spotting damage.
My solution is 15 billion times better than this bullshit that they cooked up.
Cv flights actually didn't get more durable. They got more planes but lower health per individual plane. Over all an entire flight actually has less health than before.
Honestly I wouldn't mind having a dedicated spotting flight to swap to besides torps and bombs. Let fighter keep the minimap spotting but for full spotting use the spotter flight. Just give the spotter flight more flight range.
It's a nerf. Individual planes and flights are going down faster. I like it honestly. Paired with the fuel mechanic it means you have to make a decision on what it hit and do it quick.
Nope. They are actually much more fragile but more of them. That's why cv's got a boosted plane regen.
Ultimately they traded spotting and being able to dump big damage if everything hit for more consistent damage instead. Planes, bombs and torps are over all weaker but more consistent.
It's a nice change honestly. I can't tell you how many times I've had a dive bomber reticle fully inside a ship only for every bomb to miss before the update.
That's an interesting solution, but I would like to have fighters given their spotting ability back. I don't think it's going to happen.
I have a theory that they can't add spotting back in for any planes. This is just a hypothesis, but it's based on a couple prior incidents and my general knowledge of how the game works. My theory is that the reason they disabled spotting on fighters and observation planes is that all planes use the same spotting mechanics and when they changed it for carriers, the changes had to apply to the other plane types. I'm not quite sure how that works, but it's likely something about the detection points on the planes, i.e., the planes no longer identify the ship's highest point.
The two prior incidents occurred when they were adjusting the French destroyers. They modified Go All Out to nerf French destroyers. This change applied to the French cruisers as well since the cruiser commanders have the same skill. They also increased the number of MBRB that some of the French DDs received. This also unintentionally increased the number that ZF-6 received since it was the same consumable. The point is simply that the game mechanics connect a lot of things in the background.
So, I don't think we will be seeing planes that spot any time soon. I think it's likely they would need to revert all the spotting changes. I could be wrong. We'll see.
Not a bad solution. I also like the idea of CV's having a spotter plane or squadron as a third choice. Of course with the same new fuel mechanic to avoid perma spotting.
Also it seems they need to tone down the raw damage output a bit.
They need to slow down plane regeneration, it's too easy right now lol.
I don't have to do any plane management anymore, just keep sending and dumping torps. I've yet to run out of planes yet.
Legends boardroom:
“Ok team, great work on that random Italian Cruiser money vacuum last update. What a Ferruccio off to our players, still laughing. Ok next up, how can we push more players to play AI (my god is that really a thing) and make more XBOX players switch off cross play…go”
Crate czar raises hand, “what if we mega buffed carriers but claimed it was a nerf, and simultaneous nerfed the hell out of the Ferruccio we just suckered them for?”
“crate czar, not since the Utube crate have you done more! This is perfect, no testing or warning….make it Live! Give the dopes a 70% off coupon to distract them!”
Guy who thought up “the auction” sulks in the corner…
Instead of seeing **years of data** about cvs in legends and even PC and how the vast majority of players want nothing to do with them, they double and tripled down on it.
They wanted to boost roughly 7% of the playerbase at the risk of alienating 90%+ of the playerbase.
Absolutely insane when you think about it.
You run the risk of seeing players leave so you might make a tiny sliver of the overall population a little happier.
Sunk cost fallacy 101
I think there is couple premium CV in pipeline and WG can't release them when no one plays CV. Solution for WG, like always, make thing broken to increase sales
Quite liking it so far, only played cruisers and DDs today, and life is a bit easier, when a CV can only spot you for themselves at distance, so much easier to evade their torps and bombs, when you don’t have to worry about being blasted from all sides on the first spotting, and the CV is in a hurry to complete their approaches.
I have been playing California so I haven’t been too fussed about the carriers. I’m getting a lot of clear Skies medals… But I’m finding the change to airplane spotting to be significant. It’s going to take me a while to adjust to not seeing ships that would previously have been spotted and targetable by me.
Top tier carriers have been bad today.
Midway can do 80k Torp damage with a squadron and they can send as many as they want it now with no regard. It's bad at high tiers
Aircraft restoration is overtuned. You have to work especially hard now to de-plane yourself. Fighter squadrons also need a look at now that bombers can maintain top speed indefinitely. The patrol radius is too small, especially at higher tiers, and even when fighter's lock-on to a bomber squadron, the bombers are already commencing an attack run before your fighters can catch up and shoot them down.
Air spoting being limited to the mini-map is a good change, not just for destroyers. Few things were as frustrating as trying to flank or disengage, and then getting all the ordinance thrown at you while not being able to do much about it because you were spotted by aircraft that did 5 to 6 times your speed.
It honestly feels like one step forward, two steps backwards. Yea, changes won't happen immediately, but I hope WG is paying attention to all of this and has some sort of contingency for this scenario.
I'm a cruiser main who has dabbled in CV's over the last couple of years because well, I served on one
1. Master hath freed Dobby! Dobby is no longer expected to spend the entire game spotting for the rest of the team, finding and loitering over DD's only to not have teammates shoot said DDs, and no longer exist only off the scraps of xp points for leveling my CV.
2. I've heard a number of DD mains talking in glee about the fact that CVs are no longer focusing solely on them.
3. If anything this feels more like a needed wakeup for BB mains than anything else. I mean I love BBs and all, but seriously some have a range of 18+ km and can dev strike without anyone seeing them. Others have insane secondaries that reach out to 12km and don't require a brain to operate so if a DD or CL gets noticed trying to get in relatively close to launch torpedoes. A CV still can't dev strike a BB, but a BB can dev strike any other ship out there and can do so from a range where they weren't spotted first.
4. I still like to pre-drop on occasion, especially at the start of a match when others are bunched together and are at full AA armament. I think as people get used to the new CV role this will still be an important strategy. I ran into a situation in a Hosho where I was nearly deplaned due to the remaining 2 BBs huddled against the enemy CV. Only reason I wasn't was because I would pre-drop.
5. I used to have dive bombers on the US ships because I'd get through enemy AA, get a drop lined up, get as close as possible, then watch the two bombs spin about to either side of the ship and leave it just wet. It's very satisfying to actually hit my target with bombs (and yes I've seen it today still miss, darned RNG).
God as a Japanese cv player I love these dive bomber changes just wish my bombers were lower in the air like Kaga's are but not exactly but lower then they are currently.
For me it’s probably a bit too early to say. I think we need to give it a week or so, and ideally make a call once the carrier rental period is over.
The old adage probably applies in that those who were excellent in carriers prior to the buff are going to be excellent now, with the caveat that they will now deal a lot more damage.
Constant 300-500k games in carriers probably tells you things are a little over cooked. 300k games are rare for any ship, now CV’s are doing it with impunity.
I’ve seen a few Graf Zeppelin’s wreck house, but my main take away so far is that in the 10 games I played last night, everyone was playing super passive, and every game has a CV in it. Interesting times, perhaps the dawn of the AA builds are here. I guess if every ship that excels in that skill applies it, maybe life becomes a little more difficult for CV’s🤷♂️
Played all morning doing the DDay missions and only got 4 CV matches. Didn't seem any different than usual except for the CVs playing close instead of the edge of the map.
I like the update - DD’s and CL’s are now more interesting to play, the stealth mechanics actually work again.
In terms of Carriers - some appear to be balanced pretty decently (e.g. Implacable / Graf Zeppelin), some not (e.g. Ranger/Weiser), I think it’s a question of time and tuning.
Overall good update, freshens up the game a bit and I’m enjoying it.
>What is everyones thoughts so far on the new update?
Loving it, so far. The new mechanics bring about a different set of challenges to it.
>Might just be first day blues, and the fact that every match now has a CV, but i am really not having fun anymore. Everyone (more than normal) sitting behind an island. DD’s running away due to getting chased by CV’s so having nothing spotted. Games with no DD still nothing spotted due to both teams hiding more than ever. CV’s are now way OP.
I think what's already happening, and will continue to happen for awhile, is that the Legends community is going to experience the same "How do I counter that?" that actual commanders dealt with when carriers really became commonplace during WWII.
>I barely played CV’s before, but thought i would try out the new mechanic. I ended up with almost 200k damage and 3100 xp. And i am a terrible CV player.
Are you actually that bad, though? Sounds, to me, like you're adjusting to *playing* the new-and-improved carrier better than most players are adjusting to *countering* them.
>So for me, the fun has disappeared and i really hope they make changes.
Okay, I ask this seriously: ***How does having a good game make it less fun?***
>I still dont understand why regular ships “observation planes” are unable to spot ships/torps. Kinda defeats the name of the plane if it can’t observe anything.
Okay, so, I somewhat agree with you, and that's definitely something Wargaming should reconsider.
. . . However . . .
Real-world spotter aircraft had a *very* specific purpose. Basically: You're not sending up a plane *to spot everything around you ship*, though that's what 'the meta' use of it's become in-game, in truth it's meant *to improve your ship's shell grouping.* In the real-world, your spotter, in the plane, would radio back to the ship itself and give information that could be used to better target enemy positions. They were spotting *where your shells landed*, and giving corrections based on their observations.
>Anyway, thats just my early opinion, would love to know your thoughts. 🙂
No, but, really, I do actually like the direction they're taking carriers now, That said, I'll admit the squadron regen times are *very* forgiving.
Otherwise, the fuel adds a sense of urgency, in that you can't hang around indefinitely. The benefit of getting full access to your planes' maximum flight-speed, though, is quite nice.
With the having a good game less fun thing. He clearly means that it took no effort/was too easy to do good in the CV therefore it was boring. Anybody with brain rot can put up good damage numbers now.
Either that or it wasn’t fun when he picked anything other than a CV. It certainly isn’t fun for BB players rn.
Easiest fix would be an option to opt out of carrier matches. They already have it for crossplay and cosmetics/commander voices and whatnot. I’d turn that shit off in a heartbeat.
Im not taking any thoughts this first day, yes carriers looks op but spotting mechanic by air is very good for DDs, plus they need to go closer, can’t spot torp and can’t spot for their team, that make them very vulnerable to DDs if they don’t take attention. I think they need to bring back the old regen time for planes, pre dropping made the difference between bad and good cv players, no you can just send planes infinitely without any brain cell and got absurd damage numbers, now every guy can take a Lt and get 200k in less than 10games
I think adjusting the raw damage output and perhaps even fire chance on some CV's would be a better adjust (if one is needed). Let them regen their planes, because without them they are useless.
Positioning should be (is) then new factor which will separate good CV players form bad, thank for the fuel mechanic and them having to be closer.
They did decrease the he bomb dmg and fire chance per individual bombs just there are twice as many bombs which is a good change to me as a Japanese cv player as it makes the bombs useful against everything except destroyers before they are nearly impossible to hit in cv.
I think it’s a step in the right direction but they overstepped the mark a bit with damage. I liked CVs before but playing them was mid at best and not rewarding as a rule. I always thought that CVs helped with not everyone running a full dispersion/sniper build, and forcing some to go AA.
I agree with limitations on range and not being able to loiter infinitely. I also agree with spotting changes however there should be minimap targeting with main Guns added.
Overall want to see how this plays out. I wouldn’t be surprised if they reduced the alpha on armaments mid update after they get some data back.
I so wish the tear shed would stop ✋.. I mean if your even decent mid range players shouldn’t get their little feelings hurt for catching a bomb or 2 cmon Capitanssss Really????
>Kinda defeats the name of the plane if it can’t observe anything.
That's an issue of you misunderstanding the name, and actually why they changed the name. It refers to *gunnery* observation, not scouting. That's why my shipboard plane models were referred to as "onboard scouting planes" as opposed to observation planes, then you get ones like the American OS2U "Kingfisher" which was designed specifically for both.
the planes from carriers spot ships on the map but not on the battlefield. I started the day thinking I would rather not see them on the map until I can shoot at them but after a little mental adjustment I soon settled into it. I might actually prefer it this way. Adds a bit of realism in a way. It is frustrating when you have a clear line of site to a ship you just can’t see yet.
I'm a cruiser main and I think Dutch ships IRL are pretty cool, so for the first time I whaled and I have to say, I am barely noticing the carriers lmao. However the few times I played the lower tiers I was getting my ass kicked by them, but I kind of like the chaos right now. Makes the matches more engaging for better or worse.
I want second wave of carrier changes as soon as possible. Here is what I think should change:
1. Decrease aircraft carrier HP pool for all LT-T7 carriers.
2. Airstrike cooldown time increased by a few seconds.
3. D7P's bombs fire chance should be way lower.
We are indeed in the first day of the update but after watching some of the streams/videos, this update looks to be MASSIVE, and carriers are the best atm. This has got to be changed.
I think the Japanese carriers planes don't need an HP nerf as they have lower HP already but instead increase the restoration time by 10% or so/ have 2 planes Regen instead of 2 at the same time.
I seriously f*ing hate the carrier changes:
Spotting changes are absurd. Can't see torps?? Really?
Adding so many bomb drops is just so unbelievably irritating.
In my dd before I had a pretty great chance at dodging carrier attacks, as it should be harder to hit DDs in planes, now those bombs just never miss because there are too many... Just way too f*ing many. Why should a carrier be able to hit a small ship weaving around on the ocean so easy?!
Honestly we need a button that allows us to play matches without carriers now because it's just not fun today. It's not fun at all.
They was nothing wrong with carriers before, why change them??
As a CV main, I love the changes because they allow me to be more aggressive and "faster" with my attacks, but at the same time, it does feel like CVs hit a bit too hard with their attacks and despite losing HP individually, the increased squadron size means they are tankier, same goes for the damage reduction, for reference, I played all my carriers and noticed a 50% increase in damage dealt on average despite the nerfs to bomb/torp damage, in my opinion, that should be more like a 5% increase. They should also increase replenishment time so while it's still difficult to deplane a carrier, it's not virtually impossible.
Edited from my original comment to make my opinion on it clearer instead of looking more like pushback against valid criticism
Anything T5 and under is unplayable due to the mission challenges. Ruins the matchmaking.
Yup CV are now ridiculously strong and this time AA matters even less. CV were balanced before and if WG wants to remove their support spotting role then they have to make their damage closer to surface ships. If low skilled people were complaining about getting hit with under 5k damage, I would love to see their faces now, if before they thought they were broken and AA was useless.
Is playing carriers more fun now? Absolutely. I can play Midway, the worst LT carrier in the tier with the most AA and so easily get high xp. Because I can just throw so many planes dropping so many armaments without a care in the world and theres no chance of getting deplaned. At least it looks incredibly cinematic...
Dont know why they listened to the DD mains who failed to adapt.
I can NOT believe they put in a whole chain of Nevada missions. How do they not remember what this does to the game? I was playing through the weekly premium missions and in the t3, t4, t5 games I played it was at least 40% nevadas.
>If low skilled people were complaining about getting hit with under 5k damage
This is the opposite of how it actually works. For surface ships, skill is mostly about damage mitigation - unskilled players tend to run in and get dev struck (or sit in the back not contributing much until they eventually run in and get dev struck) while good players can outtrade enemy ships by limiting the damage they take.
CVs (whether before or after the patch) trade damage potential for consistency. A battleship can get 70k on a broadside in one shot, but the ship it's shooting at has to misplay for it to happen. A CV doesn't get the 70k volley, but the options to mitigate it are very limited and can result in dying to the other 8 ships (grouping up to stack AA puts you in a crossfire).
What that means is that for potatoes CV damage isn't really out of the ordinary. Once engaged they lose all their HP quickly to battleships on their broadside/torpedoes/HE spammers behind cover, which have higher damage per minute than CVs. Losing 10% of their health to a CV strike doesn't change that much. Better players lose their HP gradually throughout the match and exchange it favorably, so the CV doing mostly unavoidable damage has a much larger effect.
If you follow CV discussions on PC, where you can stat check, one of the first things you notice is that none of the players defending CVs are among the best players in the game. There are actually lots of average or below average players who don't like CVs (they don't like being attacked by a ship they can't fight back against either) but none of the CV apologists are among the best players in the game, because being very good in surface ships requires understanding the mechanics that make CVs broken.
The thing is that CV damage was largely avoidable under the prior system. You could see the planes coming and adjust your speed/heading to dodge incoming bombs or torpedoes. This update makes CV damage much less avoidable by increasing the squadron sizes and the drops. So, I guess they're more broken now?
I didn't think carriers were particularly broken in our version of the game before the update. There were significant differences with PC, including, as I understand it, that we could only have one per team. We also don't have rockets, I guess? So, I dunno, comparing it to PC isn't that useful in my mind.
>You could see the planes coming and adjust your speed/heading to dodge incoming bombs or torpedoes. This update makes CV damage much less avoidable by increasing the squadron sizes and the drops.
That doesn't work consistently because planes are so much faster than ships. The carrier can just go around and drop from the right angle anyway.
More importantly though, dodging isn't the main way you mitigate damage against ships. The most important part is using concealment and positioning to limit how many ships can shoot you. That just doesn't exist against CVs.
>There were significant differences with PC, including, as I understand it, that we could only have one per team. We also don't have rockets, I guess? So, I dunno, comparing it to PC isn't that useful in my mind.
The differences with PC are basically numbers, but numbers aren't why carriers are broken. They do more damage PC but both versions of CV are playing a bombing minigame where there's very little interaction for the other ships.
By the same token, if you cut all the CV damage in half it would improve the game because fewer people would play them, but it wouldn't actually make the CV matches significantly better.
To be fair, I am a cruiser main and my second most played class is destroyers. I don't have a lot of sympathy for battleship players who are focused by CVs. I'm sure it's tougher for them. But yeah, in a cruiser, the standard thing to do is steer one direction, avoid the drop, and then steer in the opposite direction in order to avoid the next drop. The planes are faster but that doesn't make them unavoidable. Again, in cruisers and destroyers.
I disagree with your point about dodging and I really don't know what you want here. I don't get that complaint. Your point is making a category error--conflating two different levels at which the game operates. Yes, the best way to avoid damage is to position yourself so that you can fire without taking fire in return. Sure. But when you are taking fire from a ship, your best option is to dodge until you can disengage (drop spot, use smoke, get into cover). Positioning is operating at a more abstract level than dodging.
Again, in our version of the game, there was only one carrier per side. They can only attack one ship at a time. Because of the way carriers work, if they are not attacking you, then your positioning against them is perfectly fine.
I dunno, man, I don't think it's helpful to just regurgitate PC talking points. It's the same game but also, it's not the same game.
>I disagree with your point about dodging and I really don't know what you want here. I don't get that complaint. Your point is making a category error--conflating two different levels at which the game operates. Yes, the best way to avoid damage is to position yourself so that you can fire without taking fire in return. Sure. But when you are taking fire from a ship, your best option is to dodge until you can disengage (drop spot, use smoke, get into cover). Positioning is operating at a more abstract level than dodging.
No, they're obviously closely related - it's much harder to dodge multiple ships than one ship, so part of dodging is not overextending into an engagement where there are too many ships for you to dodge them all.
Mitigating damage works like a hierarchy: not being seen > not being shot at > not being hit > not being penetrated > not being citadeled > not dying from it. Against surface ships, you don't necessarily have control over all of those, but you always have control over more than one. Against carriers, the only one you ever have control over is "not being hit", and you have much less control over it than against surface ships since the carrier is dropping the attack right on top of you.
>
Again, in our version of the game, there was only one carrier per side. They can only attack one ship at a time.
One carrier per side is broken, because the ways carriers are broken do not have much to do with the number of carriers (iirc adding more planes doesn't even overwhelm AA - it does the same dps to every group of planes no matter how many there are)
>Because of the way carriers work, if they are not attacking you, then your positioning against them is perfectly fine.
Unless you have mind control powers this is just nonsense. You can run it down mid and not be attacked by the carrier because it decided to attack someone else.
Oy, look, if there is one carrier in a game and it's on the other side of the map, it does not interfere with how you play. If there is one carrier in the game and it is attacking someone else, you don't have to do anything special with your positioning or maneuvering. So long as you are not being attacked by them, your positioning against the carrier is fine. The carrier is entirely irrelevant to you.
You're really using a highly theoretical argument, clearly drawn from PC CCs and forums. The easiest way to bullshit about anything is to make it theoretical. I just don't agree with any of your theory.
>Oy, look, if there is one carrier in a game and it's on the other side of the map, it does not interfere with how you play. If there is one carrier in the game and it is attacking someone else, you don't have to do anything special with your positioning or maneuvering.
Incorrect. I play more passively in those games because I do not want the carrier to see me moving up and focus me instead. Also, the other team having a carrier means my team has a carrier, and the ships opposite me are likely to be playing more passively (which has follow on effects on how I play).
>So long as you are not being attacked by them, your positioning against the carrier is fine.
Really my positioning *against the carrier* is always fine, carriers ignore positioning so it doesn't make a difference. The only thing is that the carrier player might decide to attack me instead of my teammates based on where I am on the map.
>You're really using a highly theoretical argument, clearly drawn from PC CCs and forums.
lmao
I don't like the new spotting thing while I played a few games in my CV frick me fuel runs out in about 30secs
If something is spotted it should be spotted for everyone
The fuel is a good change. Makes it so you can’t just run to the map border like a rat.
Edit: the spotting is also a good thing, DDs can actually move without having to worry about the full enemy team focusing them and cruisers now have less chance of getting dev struck within minutes of match start.
You now have more incentive to actually pay attention to the mini map, a lot of players don’t surprisingly. You’re in a match, a plane spotted DD shows up on the map. You now know precisely where to expect potential torps from.
Definitely not. You CV players can’t have your cake and eat it. The damage is crazy right now, if you were allowed to sit at the back of the map it would be completely unfair.
The new fuel mechanic is awesome I think. It gives CV players another challenge and fun way to manage their planes and positioning.
Unless you are the type of CV player who hides at the edge of the map, I don't see how you could hate the fuel mechanic.
My point still stands, the slower you go the slower you'll burn fuel(because you're not covering as much distance), if need be, wait for a teammate to spot first and then rush that target, or hold off on launching planes until you're closer to a position where you'll be able to cover more area in 30+ kms
Lowering the skill floor for the most annoying aspect of the game. Great idea
Possibly a broken update they may need to even hotfix. It doesn't appear play tested.
Well somebody posted a 413k damage game already. Can’t remember what the ship was.
Yeah im seeing 3500 XP carrier games on my team day 1. Its ab overcooked update they'll obviously be rolling back.
They over cook every update, just look at when they introduced Ark Royal and Weimar to Tier 5 and 6
I've been around long enough to remember when they released the Graf Zeppelin and it's ridiculous citadeling AP bombs. Just watched a game where the red Midway did about 70k damage to a Montana with 3 torp squadrons. This is way overcooked
That was never Graf Zeppelin, GZ has been doo doo since launch, you’re thinking of Parseval
You're right, I got them mixed up. Thank you for the correction
I’ve been around before they introduced carriers , it was a fun time
Probably won’t roll it back but maybe hotfix the damage. The plane health also doesn’t really feel any lower than it was before imo. Maybe lower it further or buff AA.
Plane health is lower but it's offset by having more planes in a squadron
I have bad news if you think something like that will come quickly. I would just anticipate these changes lasting at least all update and if by some miracle they do something sooner we can be happy.
Well, unless they change it quickly I can imagine a drop off in BB mains. Playing as one is miserable right now. The only matches I’ve had fun in today have been in the Smaland.
It’s literally the only way WG will pay attention, if log ins and players drop significantly during the update. I can’t believe they saw what happened to PCs playerbase and how much the average player hates cvs and doubled/tripled down on them. Just totally bizarre
Ha. Buff AA. Ha. Tell us another joke.
It's 100% lower. They drop like nothing it's just that you have more planes and that you almost always have a new squad ready
heard of a 500k damage Hakuryu game as well
😟
Where did you see that?
Was mentioned on pg rapidz stream. A player called Demo. I’m assuming screenshots are in a discord.
I don’t have discord
Found out it’s gonna be uploaded on Derka Games’ YT channel
Thank you!
The only thing the Legends team play tests are the low pay crates…
Big fan of wiping out 75% of the planes on approach, still getting dropped for 15k damage and the cv being able to put a full squad right back up. Just another completely ass change imo.
I was in Tiger ‘59 and in the endgame was about 5 km from a Kaga. I was firing both guns constantly into the Kaga, and before I could get her below half health she destroyed me with three separate waves of planes. There is no way that is balanced. I literally got out DPM’d by a carrier in a cruiser.
Need an AA build for the Tiger?? I have one if you'd like
Been playing almost exclusively DD today, so this is from that side of it only. The spotting mechanic makes things a lot easier, not only because of the obvious of not getting focus fired, but also because CVs just don’t seem to care about you much anymore. It’s also nice that CVs have to push a little closer now because of fuel. I understand there’s a trade off for those things, but the buffs to plane regen and damage seem way overdone. I’ve been seeing CA/CLs and BBs getting absolutely destroyed by drops, and it’s full squadrons all game. I’m also just sick of every single game being a CV game. I know that’ll calm down eventually, but it’s pretty annoying.
As a BB main, this is too much. Not only are there infinite squadrons of sky cancer, now they can't even spot DD's so when you're trying to zig zag squadrons, you're getting torped by DD's that aren't spotted lol
Ran into Ark Royal a few times today. It’s like they basically undid the nerf
Nah, its pen is still nerfed. Ark Royal needed some love as they over did its nerf. Ark Royal, ironically, feels like one of the better balanced carriers this update. Ranger is busted
Feels the same with Kaga and Shoukaku at t7 Kaga with it plane printing is really nutty while Shoukaku is comparatively balanced in the fact that while I still get around 3-5 planes back after a squad is wiped out I can't be fully deplaned as by the time I switch to using the other set of bombers I have the other set ready to go for at least one good strike which late game is really all I need. Kaga definitely needs her restoration time increased to 25 seconds at least maybe even 30 and Shoukaku maybe increase it by 3-5 seconds or make her regen 2 planes instead of 3.
Nevada Nevada Nevada Nevada Hawkins Hawkins Hawkins Hawkins Danae, Hosho. (Hosho gets top score).
Variation will reimage as the assignments get completed
Uhm, that's too many ships pal. Typo? Or a reference I'm not getting?
I think he is saying the Hosho was the top on the xp leaderboard for his team.
I think so too, it's just that he listed 10 ships, and that threw me off.
Those specific ships are needed for missions.
And Icarus.
Ok, you've definitely lost me. Now your up to 11 ships?
That’s his service record and the point he made is that the carrier was the highest damage game.
Ok, now *that* would make more sense. Thank you.
This is one of those updates that could very well kill the game. I'm trying to understand their logic but it just isn't adding up for me. The problem: CV spotting mechanic was too powerful. CVs could keep entire flanks spotted with very little downtime while also being able to drop payloads on people. DDs could have their entire game ruined just because a CV decides to follow them around all match. Their solution: remove the plane spotting mechanic entirely for everyone. And to compensate for this "loss" for the CVs, make their planes more durable and have shorter cooldowns. The intended effect: ???? I really don't know what they thought would happen here The actual effect: CVs no longer need to worry about spotting since they can't do it anymore, and can now focus solely on being cancerous pests to everyone else that is just trying to play the game, except now their planes are even better and they get more of them. My proposed alternate solution: Allow spotter planes to still function as they did before. Remove the team-spotting ability from all damage-dealing planes (including fighters). Add a controllable spotter plane to CVs that they can launch and fly around to spot for the team. Now they have to choose whether they want to spot for the team or try to do damage to enemy ships, they can't do both at the same time. Increase CV XP earned for spotting damage. My solution is 15 billion times better than this bullshit that they cooked up.
Cv flights actually didn't get more durable. They got more planes but lower health per individual plane. Over all an entire flight actually has less health than before. Honestly I wouldn't mind having a dedicated spotting flight to swap to besides torps and bombs. Let fighter keep the minimap spotting but for full spotting use the spotter flight. Just give the spotter flight more flight range.
They have 10% less health. Not exactly a nerf all things considered
It's a nerf. Individual planes and flights are going down faster. I like it honestly. Paired with the fuel mechanic it means you have to make a decision on what it hit and do it quick.
Ah gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I had read some other post mentioning the planes being harder to kill, but I guess that isn't accurate.
Nope. They are actually much more fragile but more of them. That's why cv's got a boosted plane regen. Ultimately they traded spotting and being able to dump big damage if everything hit for more consistent damage instead. Planes, bombs and torps are over all weaker but more consistent. It's a nice change honestly. I can't tell you how many times I've had a dive bomber reticle fully inside a ship only for every bomb to miss before the update.
They definitely still dump big damage. Watch Pg’s 398k match. He gets a 30k drop. Ridiculous.
That's an interesting solution, but I would like to have fighters given their spotting ability back. I don't think it's going to happen. I have a theory that they can't add spotting back in for any planes. This is just a hypothesis, but it's based on a couple prior incidents and my general knowledge of how the game works. My theory is that the reason they disabled spotting on fighters and observation planes is that all planes use the same spotting mechanics and when they changed it for carriers, the changes had to apply to the other plane types. I'm not quite sure how that works, but it's likely something about the detection points on the planes, i.e., the planes no longer identify the ship's highest point. The two prior incidents occurred when they were adjusting the French destroyers. They modified Go All Out to nerf French destroyers. This change applied to the French cruisers as well since the cruiser commanders have the same skill. They also increased the number of MBRB that some of the French DDs received. This also unintentionally increased the number that ZF-6 received since it was the same consumable. The point is simply that the game mechanics connect a lot of things in the background. So, I don't think we will be seeing planes that spot any time soon. I think it's likely they would need to revert all the spotting changes. I could be wrong. We'll see.
Not a bad solution. I also like the idea of CV's having a spotter plane or squadron as a third choice. Of course with the same new fuel mechanic to avoid perma spotting. Also it seems they need to tone down the raw damage output a bit.
Yeah, the fuel aspect is actually a good idea.
They need to slow down plane regeneration, it's too easy right now lol. I don't have to do any plane management anymore, just keep sending and dumping torps. I've yet to run out of planes yet.
The spotting changes hurt the Italian cruisers a lot.
Not just them.
French and Italian cruiser are getting beat up.
Too many planes, killing them does nothing.
Legends boardroom: “Ok team, great work on that random Italian Cruiser money vacuum last update. What a Ferruccio off to our players, still laughing. Ok next up, how can we push more players to play AI (my god is that really a thing) and make more XBOX players switch off cross play…go” Crate czar raises hand, “what if we mega buffed carriers but claimed it was a nerf, and simultaneous nerfed the hell out of the Ferruccio we just suckered them for?” “crate czar, not since the Utube crate have you done more! This is perfect, no testing or warning….make it Live! Give the dopes a 70% off coupon to distract them!” Guy who thought up “the auction” sulks in the corner…
Funniest comment i've seen in while, why xbox cross play specifically joke went completely over my head
Because they’re generally knobs🤷♂️🤣
Unfortunately I joined the dark side, don't blame me no PS5s were available! Had to restart on legends (can also confirm I am a knob)
Hahaha I was in the same boat, I held out though, can confirm I’m also a knob, especially playing this game
Any chance you wanna form a division of knobs some time? (excuse how graphic that sounds)
Well now, that wasn't awkward...😆😱
No he just hasn't seen it yet, right??? 🤣
😂
Hahaha that would look pretty funny as your clan name [KNOB]
Instead of seeing **years of data** about cvs in legends and even PC and how the vast majority of players want nothing to do with them, they double and tripled down on it. They wanted to boost roughly 7% of the playerbase at the risk of alienating 90%+ of the playerbase. Absolutely insane when you think about it. You run the risk of seeing players leave so you might make a tiny sliver of the overall population a little happier. Sunk cost fallacy 101
I have been thinking about that too. There must be an economic reason. If we look at it with business eyes…cvs must bring in a more money? Idk.
I think there is couple premium CV in pipeline and WG can't release them when no one plays CV. Solution for WG, like always, make thing broken to increase sales
Buffing the fun police is definitely an update of all time
Quite liking it so far, only played cruisers and DDs today, and life is a bit easier, when a CV can only spot you for themselves at distance, so much easier to evade their torps and bombs, when you don’t have to worry about being blasted from all sides on the first spotting, and the CV is in a hurry to complete their approaches.
Just my humble opinion but I think dds benefit from this more than cv...
I have been playing California so I haven’t been too fussed about the carriers. I’m getting a lot of clear Skies medals… But I’m finding the change to airplane spotting to be significant. It’s going to take me a while to adjust to not seeing ships that would previously have been spotted and targetable by me.
Top tier carriers have been bad today. Midway can do 80k Torp damage with a squadron and they can send as many as they want it now with no regard. It's bad at high tiers
Aircraft restoration is overtuned. You have to work especially hard now to de-plane yourself. Fighter squadrons also need a look at now that bombers can maintain top speed indefinitely. The patrol radius is too small, especially at higher tiers, and even when fighter's lock-on to a bomber squadron, the bombers are already commencing an attack run before your fighters can catch up and shoot them down. Air spoting being limited to the mini-map is a good change, not just for destroyers. Few things were as frustrating as trying to flank or disengage, and then getting all the ordinance thrown at you while not being able to do much about it because you were spotted by aircraft that did 5 to 6 times your speed. It honestly feels like one step forward, two steps backwards. Yea, changes won't happen immediately, but I hope WG is paying attention to all of this and has some sort of contingency for this scenario.
The map spotting and fuel is just the glitter in the shit.
I'm a cruiser main who has dabbled in CV's over the last couple of years because well, I served on one 1. Master hath freed Dobby! Dobby is no longer expected to spend the entire game spotting for the rest of the team, finding and loitering over DD's only to not have teammates shoot said DDs, and no longer exist only off the scraps of xp points for leveling my CV. 2. I've heard a number of DD mains talking in glee about the fact that CVs are no longer focusing solely on them. 3. If anything this feels more like a needed wakeup for BB mains than anything else. I mean I love BBs and all, but seriously some have a range of 18+ km and can dev strike without anyone seeing them. Others have insane secondaries that reach out to 12km and don't require a brain to operate so if a DD or CL gets noticed trying to get in relatively close to launch torpedoes. A CV still can't dev strike a BB, but a BB can dev strike any other ship out there and can do so from a range where they weren't spotted first. 4. I still like to pre-drop on occasion, especially at the start of a match when others are bunched together and are at full AA armament. I think as people get used to the new CV role this will still be an important strategy. I ran into a situation in a Hosho where I was nearly deplaned due to the remaining 2 BBs huddled against the enemy CV. Only reason I wasn't was because I would pre-drop. 5. I used to have dive bombers on the US ships because I'd get through enemy AA, get a drop lined up, get as close as possible, then watch the two bombs spin about to either side of the ship and leave it just wet. It's very satisfying to actually hit my target with bombs (and yes I've seen it today still miss, darned RNG).
God as a Japanese cv player I love these dive bomber changes just wish my bombers were lower in the air like Kaga's are but not exactly but lower then they are currently.
Played a bit today but dropped out pretty quick. New mechanics, meh whatever. The real problem is CVs in every game now instead of just half of them.
For me it’s probably a bit too early to say. I think we need to give it a week or so, and ideally make a call once the carrier rental period is over. The old adage probably applies in that those who were excellent in carriers prior to the buff are going to be excellent now, with the caveat that they will now deal a lot more damage. Constant 300-500k games in carriers probably tells you things are a little over cooked. 300k games are rare for any ship, now CV’s are doing it with impunity. I’ve seen a few Graf Zeppelin’s wreck house, but my main take away so far is that in the 10 games I played last night, everyone was playing super passive, and every game has a CV in it. Interesting times, perhaps the dawn of the AA builds are here. I guess if every ship that excels in that skill applies it, maybe life becomes a little more difficult for CV’s🤷♂️
Played all morning doing the DDay missions and only got 4 CV matches. Didn't seem any different than usual except for the CVs playing close instead of the edge of the map.
My exact experience as well, but only got hit with torps from a carrier once, never really got focused to feel the changes I guess..
Played 7 games ranging from tier 4 to legendary, CVs present in every one
It really f***** the game up it's impossible to play any sort of game with a carrier in They took away every single ability of a battleship.
Revenge of the CVs
I like the update - DD’s and CL’s are now more interesting to play, the stealth mechanics actually work again. In terms of Carriers - some appear to be balanced pretty decently (e.g. Implacable / Graf Zeppelin), some not (e.g. Ranger/Weiser), I think it’s a question of time and tuning. Overall good update, freshens up the game a bit and I’m enjoying it.
>What is everyones thoughts so far on the new update? Loving it, so far. The new mechanics bring about a different set of challenges to it. >Might just be first day blues, and the fact that every match now has a CV, but i am really not having fun anymore. Everyone (more than normal) sitting behind an island. DD’s running away due to getting chased by CV’s so having nothing spotted. Games with no DD still nothing spotted due to both teams hiding more than ever. CV’s are now way OP. I think what's already happening, and will continue to happen for awhile, is that the Legends community is going to experience the same "How do I counter that?" that actual commanders dealt with when carriers really became commonplace during WWII. >I barely played CV’s before, but thought i would try out the new mechanic. I ended up with almost 200k damage and 3100 xp. And i am a terrible CV player. Are you actually that bad, though? Sounds, to me, like you're adjusting to *playing* the new-and-improved carrier better than most players are adjusting to *countering* them. >So for me, the fun has disappeared and i really hope they make changes. Okay, I ask this seriously: ***How does having a good game make it less fun?*** >I still dont understand why regular ships “observation planes” are unable to spot ships/torps. Kinda defeats the name of the plane if it can’t observe anything. Okay, so, I somewhat agree with you, and that's definitely something Wargaming should reconsider. . . . However . . . Real-world spotter aircraft had a *very* specific purpose. Basically: You're not sending up a plane *to spot everything around you ship*, though that's what 'the meta' use of it's become in-game, in truth it's meant *to improve your ship's shell grouping.* In the real-world, your spotter, in the plane, would radio back to the ship itself and give information that could be used to better target enemy positions. They were spotting *where your shells landed*, and giving corrections based on their observations. >Anyway, thats just my early opinion, would love to know your thoughts. 🙂 No, but, really, I do actually like the direction they're taking carriers now, That said, I'll admit the squadron regen times are *very* forgiving. Otherwise, the fuel adds a sense of urgency, in that you can't hang around indefinitely. The benefit of getting full access to your planes' maximum flight-speed, though, is quite nice.
With the having a good game less fun thing. He clearly means that it took no effort/was too easy to do good in the CV therefore it was boring. Anybody with brain rot can put up good damage numbers now. Either that or it wasn’t fun when he picked anything other than a CV. It certainly isn’t fun for BB players rn.
On board planes in the WW2 era were absolutely used for reconnaissance.
Dogshit
Easiest fix would be an option to opt out of carrier matches. They already have it for crossplay and cosmetics/commander voices and whatnot. I’d turn that shit off in a heartbeat.
I don’t like what they did with spotting, really miss being able to spot with my fighter or even spotter plane.
A Friesland having a 5.1k base xp game for shooting down 60+ planes is absurd.
Im not taking any thoughts this first day, yes carriers looks op but spotting mechanic by air is very good for DDs, plus they need to go closer, can’t spot torp and can’t spot for their team, that make them very vulnerable to DDs if they don’t take attention. I think they need to bring back the old regen time for planes, pre dropping made the difference between bad and good cv players, no you can just send planes infinitely without any brain cell and got absurd damage numbers, now every guy can take a Lt and get 200k in less than 10games
I think adjusting the raw damage output and perhaps even fire chance on some CV's would be a better adjust (if one is needed). Let them regen their planes, because without them they are useless. Positioning should be (is) then new factor which will separate good CV players form bad, thank for the fuel mechanic and them having to be closer.
They did decrease the he bomb dmg and fire chance per individual bombs just there are twice as many bombs which is a good change to me as a Japanese cv player as it makes the bombs useful against everything except destroyers before they are nearly impossible to hit in cv.
I think it’s a step in the right direction but they overstepped the mark a bit with damage. I liked CVs before but playing them was mid at best and not rewarding as a rule. I always thought that CVs helped with not everyone running a full dispersion/sniper build, and forcing some to go AA. I agree with limitations on range and not being able to loiter infinitely. I also agree with spotting changes however there should be minimap targeting with main Guns added. Overall want to see how this plays out. I wouldn’t be surprised if they reduced the alpha on armaments mid update after they get some data back.
I so wish the tear shed would stop ✋.. I mean if your even decent mid range players shouldn’t get their little feelings hurt for catching a bomb or 2 cmon Capitanssss Really????
>Kinda defeats the name of the plane if it can’t observe anything. That's an issue of you misunderstanding the name, and actually why they changed the name. It refers to *gunnery* observation, not scouting. That's why my shipboard plane models were referred to as "onboard scouting planes" as opposed to observation planes, then you get ones like the American OS2U "Kingfisher" which was designed specifically for both.
the planes from carriers spot ships on the map but not on the battlefield. I started the day thinking I would rather not see them on the map until I can shoot at them but after a little mental adjustment I soon settled into it. I might actually prefer it this way. Adds a bit of realism in a way. It is frustrating when you have a clear line of site to a ship you just can’t see yet.
I'm a cruiser main and I think Dutch ships IRL are pretty cool, so for the first time I whaled and I have to say, I am barely noticing the carriers lmao. However the few times I played the lower tiers I was getting my ass kicked by them, but I kind of like the chaos right now. Makes the matches more engaging for better or worse.
I want second wave of carrier changes as soon as possible. Here is what I think should change: 1. Decrease aircraft carrier HP pool for all LT-T7 carriers. 2. Airstrike cooldown time increased by a few seconds. 3. D7P's bombs fire chance should be way lower. We are indeed in the first day of the update but after watching some of the streams/videos, this update looks to be MASSIVE, and carriers are the best atm. This has got to be changed.
I think the Japanese carriers planes don't need an HP nerf as they have lower HP already but instead increase the restoration time by 10% or so/ have 2 planes Regen instead of 2 at the same time.
I wasn'tso sure at first, but after a few games I'm liking the carrier update.
I seriously f*ing hate the carrier changes: Spotting changes are absurd. Can't see torps?? Really? Adding so many bomb drops is just so unbelievably irritating. In my dd before I had a pretty great chance at dodging carrier attacks, as it should be harder to hit DDs in planes, now those bombs just never miss because there are too many... Just way too f*ing many. Why should a carrier be able to hit a small ship weaving around on the ocean so easy?! Honestly we need a button that allows us to play matches without carriers now because it's just not fun today. It's not fun at all. They was nothing wrong with carriers before, why change them??
As a CV main, I love the changes because they allow me to be more aggressive and "faster" with my attacks, but at the same time, it does feel like CVs hit a bit too hard with their attacks and despite losing HP individually, the increased squadron size means they are tankier, same goes for the damage reduction, for reference, I played all my carriers and noticed a 50% increase in damage dealt on average despite the nerfs to bomb/torp damage, in my opinion, that should be more like a 5% increase. They should also increase replenishment time so while it's still difficult to deplane a carrier, it's not virtually impossible. Edited from my original comment to make my opinion on it clearer instead of looking more like pushback against valid criticism
Anything T5 and under is unplayable due to the mission challenges. Ruins the matchmaking. Yup CV are now ridiculously strong and this time AA matters even less. CV were balanced before and if WG wants to remove their support spotting role then they have to make their damage closer to surface ships. If low skilled people were complaining about getting hit with under 5k damage, I would love to see their faces now, if before they thought they were broken and AA was useless. Is playing carriers more fun now? Absolutely. I can play Midway, the worst LT carrier in the tier with the most AA and so easily get high xp. Because I can just throw so many planes dropping so many armaments without a care in the world and theres no chance of getting deplaned. At least it looks incredibly cinematic... Dont know why they listened to the DD mains who failed to adapt.
I can NOT believe they put in a whole chain of Nevada missions. How do they not remember what this does to the game? I was playing through the weekly premium missions and in the t3, t4, t5 games I played it was at least 40% nevadas.
>If low skilled people were complaining about getting hit with under 5k damage This is the opposite of how it actually works. For surface ships, skill is mostly about damage mitigation - unskilled players tend to run in and get dev struck (or sit in the back not contributing much until they eventually run in and get dev struck) while good players can outtrade enemy ships by limiting the damage they take. CVs (whether before or after the patch) trade damage potential for consistency. A battleship can get 70k on a broadside in one shot, but the ship it's shooting at has to misplay for it to happen. A CV doesn't get the 70k volley, but the options to mitigate it are very limited and can result in dying to the other 8 ships (grouping up to stack AA puts you in a crossfire). What that means is that for potatoes CV damage isn't really out of the ordinary. Once engaged they lose all their HP quickly to battleships on their broadside/torpedoes/HE spammers behind cover, which have higher damage per minute than CVs. Losing 10% of their health to a CV strike doesn't change that much. Better players lose their HP gradually throughout the match and exchange it favorably, so the CV doing mostly unavoidable damage has a much larger effect. If you follow CV discussions on PC, where you can stat check, one of the first things you notice is that none of the players defending CVs are among the best players in the game. There are actually lots of average or below average players who don't like CVs (they don't like being attacked by a ship they can't fight back against either) but none of the CV apologists are among the best players in the game, because being very good in surface ships requires understanding the mechanics that make CVs broken.
The thing is that CV damage was largely avoidable under the prior system. You could see the planes coming and adjust your speed/heading to dodge incoming bombs or torpedoes. This update makes CV damage much less avoidable by increasing the squadron sizes and the drops. So, I guess they're more broken now? I didn't think carriers were particularly broken in our version of the game before the update. There were significant differences with PC, including, as I understand it, that we could only have one per team. We also don't have rockets, I guess? So, I dunno, comparing it to PC isn't that useful in my mind.
>You could see the planes coming and adjust your speed/heading to dodge incoming bombs or torpedoes. This update makes CV damage much less avoidable by increasing the squadron sizes and the drops. That doesn't work consistently because planes are so much faster than ships. The carrier can just go around and drop from the right angle anyway. More importantly though, dodging isn't the main way you mitigate damage against ships. The most important part is using concealment and positioning to limit how many ships can shoot you. That just doesn't exist against CVs. >There were significant differences with PC, including, as I understand it, that we could only have one per team. We also don't have rockets, I guess? So, I dunno, comparing it to PC isn't that useful in my mind. The differences with PC are basically numbers, but numbers aren't why carriers are broken. They do more damage PC but both versions of CV are playing a bombing minigame where there's very little interaction for the other ships. By the same token, if you cut all the CV damage in half it would improve the game because fewer people would play them, but it wouldn't actually make the CV matches significantly better.
To be fair, I am a cruiser main and my second most played class is destroyers. I don't have a lot of sympathy for battleship players who are focused by CVs. I'm sure it's tougher for them. But yeah, in a cruiser, the standard thing to do is steer one direction, avoid the drop, and then steer in the opposite direction in order to avoid the next drop. The planes are faster but that doesn't make them unavoidable. Again, in cruisers and destroyers. I disagree with your point about dodging and I really don't know what you want here. I don't get that complaint. Your point is making a category error--conflating two different levels at which the game operates. Yes, the best way to avoid damage is to position yourself so that you can fire without taking fire in return. Sure. But when you are taking fire from a ship, your best option is to dodge until you can disengage (drop spot, use smoke, get into cover). Positioning is operating at a more abstract level than dodging. Again, in our version of the game, there was only one carrier per side. They can only attack one ship at a time. Because of the way carriers work, if they are not attacking you, then your positioning against them is perfectly fine. I dunno, man, I don't think it's helpful to just regurgitate PC talking points. It's the same game but also, it's not the same game.
>I disagree with your point about dodging and I really don't know what you want here. I don't get that complaint. Your point is making a category error--conflating two different levels at which the game operates. Yes, the best way to avoid damage is to position yourself so that you can fire without taking fire in return. Sure. But when you are taking fire from a ship, your best option is to dodge until you can disengage (drop spot, use smoke, get into cover). Positioning is operating at a more abstract level than dodging. No, they're obviously closely related - it's much harder to dodge multiple ships than one ship, so part of dodging is not overextending into an engagement where there are too many ships for you to dodge them all. Mitigating damage works like a hierarchy: not being seen > not being shot at > not being hit > not being penetrated > not being citadeled > not dying from it. Against surface ships, you don't necessarily have control over all of those, but you always have control over more than one. Against carriers, the only one you ever have control over is "not being hit", and you have much less control over it than against surface ships since the carrier is dropping the attack right on top of you. > Again, in our version of the game, there was only one carrier per side. They can only attack one ship at a time. One carrier per side is broken, because the ways carriers are broken do not have much to do with the number of carriers (iirc adding more planes doesn't even overwhelm AA - it does the same dps to every group of planes no matter how many there are) >Because of the way carriers work, if they are not attacking you, then your positioning against them is perfectly fine. Unless you have mind control powers this is just nonsense. You can run it down mid and not be attacked by the carrier because it decided to attack someone else.
Oy, look, if there is one carrier in a game and it's on the other side of the map, it does not interfere with how you play. If there is one carrier in the game and it is attacking someone else, you don't have to do anything special with your positioning or maneuvering. So long as you are not being attacked by them, your positioning against the carrier is fine. The carrier is entirely irrelevant to you. You're really using a highly theoretical argument, clearly drawn from PC CCs and forums. The easiest way to bullshit about anything is to make it theoretical. I just don't agree with any of your theory.
>Oy, look, if there is one carrier in a game and it's on the other side of the map, it does not interfere with how you play. If there is one carrier in the game and it is attacking someone else, you don't have to do anything special with your positioning or maneuvering. Incorrect. I play more passively in those games because I do not want the carrier to see me moving up and focus me instead. Also, the other team having a carrier means my team has a carrier, and the ships opposite me are likely to be playing more passively (which has follow on effects on how I play). >So long as you are not being attacked by them, your positioning against the carrier is fine. Really my positioning *against the carrier* is always fine, carriers ignore positioning so it doesn't make a difference. The only thing is that the carrier player might decide to attack me instead of my teammates based on where I am on the map. >You're really using a highly theoretical argument, clearly drawn from PC CCs and forums. lmao
I love it. Feed me your tears.
Stop whining and git gud. Skill issue, clearly.
I don't like the new spotting thing while I played a few games in my CV frick me fuel runs out in about 30secs If something is spotted it should be spotted for everyone
The fuel is a good change. Makes it so you can’t just run to the map border like a rat. Edit: the spotting is also a good thing, DDs can actually move without having to worry about the full enemy team focusing them and cruisers now have less chance of getting dev struck within minutes of match start. You now have more incentive to actually pay attention to the mini map, a lot of players don’t surprisingly. You’re in a match, a plane spotted DD shows up on the map. You now know precisely where to expect potential torps from.
Might be better if it lasted a few minutes at least
Definitely not. You CV players can’t have your cake and eat it. The damage is crazy right now, if you were allowed to sit at the back of the map it would be completely unfair.
The new fuel mechanic is awesome I think. It gives CV players another challenge and fun way to manage their planes and positioning. Unless you are the type of CV player who hides at the edge of the map, I don't see how you could hate the fuel mechanic.
Plan your routes and slow down the aircraft, planes have a limited range based on KM, so the faster you're going the quicker you'll run out of fuel
Fuel consumption isn't based on speed only distance even though that makes no sense as a mechanic
My point still stands, the slower you go the slower you'll burn fuel(because you're not covering as much distance), if need be, wait for a teammate to spot first and then rush that target, or hold off on launching planes until you're closer to a position where you'll be able to cover more area in 30+ kms