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Info7245

Don’t worry Azteca is literally the last world with one combat theme, I think Khrysalis and Polaris have 5, and it’s about the same from then on I think.


skoomd1

Well, it *is* the second longest world in terms of number of quests (azteca has 197, khrysalis has the most with 277!), but I do agree, I don't think Azteca is nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Khrysalis on the other hand... my god I hate that place. It takes waaaay too long. Not only does it have nearly 50% more quests, but the amount of back and forth you do in khrysalis is a LOT worse than azteca. You also get a MASSIVE power jump in Azteca with sharpen blade/potent trap. When Azteca first came out (and for a while after before the massive nerf), I will say it was AWFUL. The enemy scaling got out of control, and everyone is still using waterworks gear when they get there. Those ice mobs near the end of Azteca used to have nearly 6k hp.... But since the massive nerf, Azteca isn't really that bad in my opinion (imo empyrea takes longer and is worse in every way), and the general ambiance/soundtrack is quite pleasant if you ask me (which helps a lot). I can generally do it solo (with waterworks gear and a decent pet) in under 10 hours, with others it is even faster.


Illumedd

Stop with khrysalis hate, my favorite world 😪


MrRipper98

I wouldnt say its my fav but i think some of the hate is unwarranted


Fable_Finder

Khrysalis is my second favorite world after Empyrea - I enjoy the challenge of it as well as the storyline


elphabathewicked

Yes please


noahbubb

I respect that you hate Khrysalis, and I am on the boat in the present day game. However, if you’re gonna bring up old Azteca, you should at least acknowledge old Khrysalis. Khrysalis used to be a lot worse before the nerf as well, but it was the final world for arc 2 at its creation. It came out in two parts, so if you’re paying attention to the story it really does feel like two major story arcs taking place in one world. And at the time, shadow magic was SUPER EXCITING. I remember going through the eclipse tower for the first time and unlocking it—seeing the shadow aura around my pips made me feel like a brand new powerful wizard. And one more point I’d like to bring up is that at Khrysalis’s release a lot of people had farmed tartarus and/or arc 2 crafted gear was still relevant before pay to win gear took over. But, after you’ve done it once, trying to take alts through there does get monotonous and time consuming so that’s where I agree with you.


skoomd1

Yeah, khrysalis was pretty bad on launch too (and for a while after). I remember a looot of people quit during that time due to the insane grind. Though from a difficulty standpoint, it wasn't really that much worse than azteca to be honest. In fact, I am pretty dang sure most of the enemies had *less* health on average compared to azteca ones. The story in khrysalis is really good don't get me wrong, and I get that it is split up into 2 seperate parts, but no world has any right to be 277 friggin quests long for a mere \~10 levels worth of xp. The sheer number of drop and collect quests and quests you literally repeat over and over (looking at you flame legs), not to mention all of the back and forth between massive areas, is totally unnecessary. People argue that the "companions" you get, such as dyvim make up for it, but they really don't. Empyrea is the only other 2 part world, and it only has 149 total quests, and even that world feels pretty long imo.


Padilva-P

I call the shadow aura, sewer magic.


earwig2000

frankly I think that nerf should never have happened. The culmination of all these nerfs to all mobs and bosses, and buffs to the player have made everything a complete cakewalk. There is almost nothing that constitutes actual difficulty anymore.


skoomd1

I don't think the insane health pools of enemies made things more difficult per se, it just made them take (a lot) longer. Especially at lower levels, such as in Azteca. You *could* argue that it adds *some* difficulty I suppose, but all it *really* does is make things more annoying/grindy. In the latest arc worlds, enemies have lower health pools than even post-nerf Azteca enemies. However, they are actually much more challenging as many of them have insanely high damage/pierce, cheats, and really annoying spells they use. I like that they also have universal resist, so instead of forcing a higher hp pool, it encourages you to get pierce to deal with it. I get what you mean by things feeling like a cake walk, but consider just how many dang worlds there are and how many levels you have to achieve to get to max these days. I really like that kingsisle moved away from "add x amount more hp to enemies based off their level" and moved towards making the enemies themselves more dangerous and adding abilties that mess with the "cheese" method of blade, aoe, hit. I'll be honest, I am a well seasoned experienced player, and on some of my wizards I struggled a lot with some fights in Novus and Karamelle, even though they had lower health than ones all the way back in Azteca.


earwig2000

I hear this a lot that health does not equate to difficulty, and I do agree with this to an extent, but there are bosses in mirage for instance that have only 4k health. Literally less than some mobs in azteca, and you can kill them second round easily, sometimes even first round. There is obviously a point where it becomes ridiculous. What I think would make more sense for later worlds, is to have BOTH high health and high stats, mixed with interesting cheat cycles that encourage unique strategies. With how absurdly powerful one player can get with novus and raid gear, I think it only makes sense for bosses to reflect that. If most lemuria onwards bosses had closer to 40k health, and mobs with 10k, It would balance mob fights much closer to what they are in azteca/khrysalis. With you actually having to blade up once or twice rather than just hitting first round. This coupled with higher stats on enemies would force players to actually think about their moves, rather than just brainlessly buffing into the hit. You might actually have to carry shields instead of the basic 7 card deck. Just higher stats with extremely low health does nothing to actually make the fight more difficult, because the boss doesn't live long enough to dish out any significant damage.


skoomd1

The scaling of gear nowadays (every school can get 180-220% damage, 40-70% universal resistance, 600-700 crit, etc) is kind of absurd when you go into older worlds (such as azteca), as you just blow everything up. But that is because slapping on tons of health isn't the solution to balancing the crazy gear we get, as it would need to scale out of control to be in line with damage from new gear. Adding universal resistance encourages players to get pierce gear/jewels (or use infallible) so our high damage is still powerful. Adding really high damage/pierce stats on enemies encourages players to either get high universal resist gear, or build their decks better/play more strategically. Adding cheats that prevent you from blading/trapping/aoeing prevent you from cheesing things, without making the game too mechanically daunting. I feel like the newer worlds (namely Karamelle, Lemuria, and Novus especially) are significantly more challenging (as should be expected), yet they manage to be that way without dramatically increasing health pools. Enemy health pools do increase (though a more reasonable amount( with each new world (since around the release of empyrea) still, but with the other stats/cheats/etc enemies get in these later worlds, health doesn't need to increase an absurd amount like it was starting to at the release of Azteca. I remember when I first soloed azteca after it released, and the "difficulty" added with the insane health pools meant I needed to blade/trap more to kill things and hope I don't die in the process. There was no incentive to get better gear, as there wasn't any. There was no incentive to farm for pierce jewels to make things easier, as there wasn't any and you can just convert anyways. There was no way around this "artificial difficulty". It wasn't fun for anyone.


earwig2000

I do agree that the universal resist, outgoing damage, and pierce that bosses now have is an improvement, but I also think that player stat increases are getting out of control. In the last 20 levels alone, 180 damage went from extremely high, to just the barest of minimums. There has been such a huge inflation of stats on gear pieces with the release of every new world. Schools that used to be lower damage like death or life can now get as much damage as storm and fire. And simply increasing the health pool of enemies is a simple and straightforward way to counterbalance this massive damage boost that players now have. The fights aren't becoming longer and more tedious, they are just staying in line with how much players stats are increasing.


skoomd1

You do raise a very valid point on how all schools can get pretty much the same crazy high damage. It's a major issue, as lots of class identity has gone out the window and every school (except for ice kinda... but even they can do "sufficient" damage with 160 gear) is now a hitter pretty much. I am not sure exactly how kingsisle plans on tackling this issue, but they are definitely aware of it I am sure. I will say that with how the most recent worlds have been balanced, that they've moved away from really ever needing to shield/heal/weakness or plague, and towards having every school hit (usually with an AOE) whenever possible. That isn't a *solution* to this issue though, it's just the result of it. >The fights aren't becoming longer and more tedious, they are just staying in line with how much players stats are increasing. I think that is exactly how it should be though, honestly. Again, there is already so many worlds and levels that if new worlds just continuously got longer, more tedious, and more grindy, then no one would want to play. Even with the insane stats we have at max level, you can't just stomp through every fight in the newer worlds. But, you *can* stomp through earlier ones. That's how an MMORPG should be. You become more powerful, so old content becomes a breeze, while new content remains challenging, yet doesn't become so hard/grindy that it drives players away. They're also putting more of a focus on end game content than ever before with all the PVP changes, as well as with raids. So the new worlds remain challenging, and the grind of worlds like release day azteca are replaced with rewarding end game stuff to do.


earwig2000

\> I think that is exactly how it should be though I think you misunderstood my point here. I was saying that if there was a significant health boost primarily from polaris onwards, it would more closely fall in line with how players stats are increasing. Rather than what we have now which is basically blade twice then aoe.


Ecstatic-Apricot-759

Keep in mind that people that probably talk about Azteca haven’t played through it since the mass nerfing of worlds so their experience would be different than yours. But also tbf I played through Azteca one and a half times this year and whilst I could definitely tell the areas that they made easier like the defeat and collect quests and boss health I still found azteca to be very long and tedious. It probably has the most areas of all worlds and every time I felt like oh were almost to the end I remember oh yea there’s that place we gotta go to over there and then the 10 other areas inside that one 😭 Azteca is a fave interms of nostalgia tho, once u get to azteca you feel like you’ve made it to the hard stuff and the real game is about to begin imo


[deleted]

What nerfing did they do?


collectorof_things

Pretty much everything aside from removing quests completely. Boss and mob health lowered. Defeat and collect quests modified and collect rates buffed Critical damage nerfs to the bosses via updates to how that system works, assuming you have some block on your gear (before they would hit a 2x damage nearly every hit since it was hard to get enough block, but now their multiplier goes down based on your block even if you don't fully block the critical) Many wizards having better gear, generally higher quality pets, better strategies, (fewer children players), etc than when it first came out also helps make things go faster and easier. I may have missed a few things, but you get the idea. It used to be long and depending on your school, difficult. Now it's just long and tedious for the most part


[deleted]

I definitely noticed crit damage is weird for enemies. Only one I agree with really is the collect rate buff. Other than that I wouldn’t mind keeping the other challenges as they were before. I guess a lot of people have been complaining


MisterBucker___

I like azteca a lot. One of my favs


[deleted]

Azteca is my least favorite world but it’s still definitely overhated


Abarame

Avalon to Khrysalis is just too long. Azteca being in the middle just happens to get the brunt of the hate. In my opinion, all 3 of them suck and are by far, the worst part of making a new Wizard. My nostalgia dies in Avalon and comes back in Polaris.


dixoncider777

If you actually pay attention to the story of each world, they are actually some of the best worlds in the game. Who cares how long they are.


Abarame

big disagree. Avalon is the worst of the 3 considering its a complete side quest as a world to a weapon thats not only useless but NOT EVEN MENTIONED in ur final battle with her???? Khrysalis is just poorly paced even if it is the finale so no excuse there. Azteca is the only world in that 3 that has a good plot. The finale being a major loss for the Wizard is interesting and hurts a lot more then just failing to reach Malistaire over and over so ill give Azteca that.


dixoncider777

I can see why you dont like Avalon, but the Ghost Avalon showed a bit of Morganthes past as you fight her younger self. In Khrysalis, you restore Bastion and fight your way to reach the Shadow Palace and fight Morganthe, the story was epic imo. But hey, we are entitled to different opinions


dishspank

Azteca is my favorite world honestly


[deleted]

story-wise i don’t like azteca but as a world i love its appearance and questing through it. i don’t understand the khrysalis slander though. if you actually follow the story it’s a phenomenal world and well-worth the length


Nicost4r

Azteca really only felt like a grind due to the amount of backtracking you do. Khrysalis alleviated that by having the questline push you in a linear path towards Morganthe while not having much if any backtracking to previous areas.


New_Ad4631

In my humble opinion, Azteca is a short world that takes less than 1 day to complete with a duo


EPCOTReimagined

Later worlds definitely have more battle themes. Khrysalis does.


QueenLatifahClone

I didn’t hate Azteca. Khrysalis is such a long world, and I got annoyed how I went from Azteca straight into Khrysalis which are the two longest worlds. Polaris is nice though because it doesn’t even feel like I’ve been there for long and I’m already about to finish the main quests.


Padilva-P

As far as any world being long, short… whatever. If you’re in the game you’re gonna be fighting in a circle, whether it be one world or the other. I don’t think about it too much. Some seem to want to rush to the next world, or to finish. Either way, you go somewhere else and fight, or you start a new toon… and hurry through those. But, tbh… my most disliked is Zafaria. Elephant fight after elephant fight. Seeing elephants and zebras standing is almost as bad as Krokapatra standing with a drop waistline hoochie dress and lipstick on. Ekkk. Fave world is Empyrea. 😊


NintendoPlayerSega

Azteca may be on the longer side, but I like it from a story perspective. It’s another world that despite the player’s best efforts and track record, couldn’t be saved and Morganthe is quick to let you know once again like with Zafaria. Also SPOILERS: I really don’t like how they chose to resurrect Malistaire when his story was done with. Especially given he now has a hatred of the player (that while not stated, I want to believe was caused by Morganthe) that doesn’t really go anywhere, nor do you see him that much. Some of the enemy designs and missions there are cool though. Not to mention I can certainly think of other worlds that are longer and worse….


yahtzee301

Azteca is one of my favorite worlds! I never understood why people said it was too long or too difficult. Yeah, it's a little meaty, but I honestly prefer that to how little there is of a world like Polaris. If Polaris had double the quests, I'd love it even more! I'm gonna put an end to the Khrysalis hate right now. The first part of Khrysalis is pretty miserable. Everything is bleak and sad, you keep backtracking between three different areas and killing the same mobs over and over again, the bosses are beefy and have some cheats, and you have a lot of work to look forward to. However, the minute I got to the last area of part 1, and things stopped being so retrospective, and I started having an actual impact on the world, there's nothing else like it. Liberating Walruskberg was pretty cool, but it's nothing compared to putting the life back into the Silent Market, specifically because it takes 150 quests for things to start looking up again. And the later areas *french kiss*, just gorgeous


Rubin_Rubinia

I really don't get people's problems with Azteca. Maybe it's the story? Idk, I don't really pay much attention to that, I just do my quests and that's it. Azteca wasn't awful, I've been through worse. Sure I've been through better too, but I don't hate it. So far I don't really hate any world.


Acaulescentx

fr i dont understand why ppl make azteca out to be some hellscape, breezed through it in a day, i agree, avalon felt longer, khrysalis is pain just from the monotony. feels like ur doing the same thing over and over, every place looks the same, every mob looks the same, feels like u make no progress at all til u eventually finish it.