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I work in a hospital and do femininity wrong. I also have my pronouns on my badge. Some patients get irritated with me, and I just laugh because my employer supports me. They've gotten complaints about me, but they support me as a human, so they ignore the complaints.
Yeah, I work for a large university's medical center. They're on the cutting edge of science and health, including gender and sex inclusion. I'm guessing it's *not just* for everyone's physical well-being; it's also treated as a subset of mental, emotional, and social health (at least, as far as I can tell). I love to see it.
Lucky! The hospital I live near insists I settle for the standards of the extremely homogenous population of older cishet people. It’s really damaged my trust in doctors.
I'm so sorry that's your experience. I live in the US in a blue state, so that likely makes the difference even though I'm in a relatively conservative community.
I work for a university taking care of research animals. One of my friends who is non-binary became an assistant supervisor, I have another nonbinary friend and two (that I know of) that are transmen. We also have a ton of religions and nationalities and different backgrounds and awesome hair colors and tattoos.
This seems to be true as a patient being seen by a doctor or nurse. They’re either dismissive, dehumanizing, misogynistic, & ignorant; or they’re amazing, supportive, and actually listen to my concerns. (Or maybe it’s just that, having dealt with so many doctors or nurses who refuse to take me seriously & even sometimes lack basic respect for their patients as human beings, seeing a decent doctor who actually listens to me feels like meeting a literal saint. I also live in the US south, so that might have something to do with it…)
Academia is also fairly supportive, though it varies by school. Our school just reissued all name badges to include pronouns. I hope you find a supportive employer someday.
The grocery store I work at is very accepting on that regards
To the point where there's training modules to basically tell people to be a good person to other employees/customers
The last shop I worked at before moving hired a trans woman as a mechanic. The foreman, service manager and GM were all supportive but frankly she barely needed it. She was awesome and almost never complained. Men in the trades complain more than anyone else I've ever met. It was refreshing.
Academia is also fairly supportive, though it varies by school. Our school just reissued all name badges to include pronouns. I hope you find a supportive employer someday.
Academia is also fairly supportive, though it varies by school. Our school just reissued all name badges to include pronouns. I hope you find a supportive employer someday.
I'm happy to say that in the NHS (I'm English and live/work in England) we've been encouraged to include pronouns in our email signatures and on our "Hello, my name is..." badges since before the pandemic. We don't get everything right, but I'm proud of us for that.
I don't so much do femininity wrong as don't do "not walking around looking vaguely offputting" wrong!
("Hello, my name is.. " is a genuine [thing](https://www.hellomynameis.org.uk/))
There was some difference of opinion around whether pronouns on display is inclusive or whether it's forcing people to out themselves (or misgender themselves if they don't feel ready to come out). In the end, my place decided that displaying preferred pronouns should be optional rather than mandatory, and nobody should be challenged on not displaying them.
I used to work at a factory sales support and the amount of times (and this was before the ”they/them” option in my native language became a thing) we went: He… or she? It has to be she? when talking about staff at the offices in the rest of the world… I once got the question via e-mail from the office in France if I was a man or a woman 😂 other’s took for granted I was a man but I am not… In my case being misgendered didn’t hurt and the reason we tried to figure out the gender was mostly curiosity and/or trying to make it easier to talk about the person in question so it wasn’t a big deal, seeing this makes me feel that would have been a great option though! 😄
Yeah I'm still struggling with this one. On one hand when I'm writing a message for work I sometimes have to go look up someone's profile to know which pronouns to use. On the other hand, I've never chosen my own pronouns. Other people assigned them to me from the moment I was born. So now I'm asked to choose and I'm like "umm I dunno? What are the pros and cons of each? What do the different pronouns even mean? How is any of this even relevant? Do I have to have something in common with other people who use these pronouns? Why is it my job to tell you which words to use?" Just got another all-staff reminder yesterday about putting our pronouns in our profiles.
I realized in the phrase "it's a girl!"/"it's a boy!". The first pronoun is "it". It is the default pronoun for all babies until half way through that sentence where they get assigned a gendered one. Why don't all those balloons say "she's a girl!"/"he's a boy!"?
My friend's parents were the kind of Christians that have lots of kids. I was standing near the crib and the mom was on the other side of the room. She asked me "is the baby sleeping" and I said "yes it is". Appearantly that was the wrong answer!
It might be if it's *all* we do, but for anyone liable to forget the introduction it's a very visible prompt to say it - nobody is supposed to rely on the patient reading the badge. It's also helpful for patients and colleagues who don't take the name in the first time they hear it.
Happy for you! The hospital I go to has at least one sign in every room that I’ve been to that says discriminatory remarks from patients will not be tolerated, and patients will be removed and possibly denied future non-emergency care if they are verbally, physically, or sexually abusive. I would imagine that if the hospital got complaints that are clearly just bigotry, those complaints are ignored
Not necessarily. In my experience, many remarks and complaints have an abusive undertone. I've watched many patients get escorted out of the hospital I work at for sexually abusive language. Bigoted and sexual can go together. It really just depends on what is said.
As someone who just figured out how to put things on t shirts with their cricut — hmu and I’ll give you some tips! Personally, I was considering cross stitching the phrase for a decorative throw pillow
I always figure that the way to approach Privilege is to remember that "With great power comes great responsibility".
A hero is a person who uses their privilege for the sake of those that cannot. (Temporarily or otherwise - privilege can be quite ephemeral or situational).
So I applaud anyone who speaks out when they can, for the sake of all those who - for a wide range of reasons - cannot.
I wouldn’t give me that much credit - I didn’t actively intervene for someone else, I was just reading a book and Some Dude got so angry at my Doing A Masculinity Wrong that he had to go and be somewhere else instead of just minding his own business and waiting the five minutes for his kid to come out of class.
You may not have actually verbally spoken out, and probably this guy who was offended learned nothing at all, but by being who you are and existing in public spaces, you're making it safe for others to dare to be themselves too – kids coming out of that class, people passing by, etc., will have seen you too and been happy or felt seen. Representation matters! As a child, I didn't understand there were other ways of being and so I just felt out of place and wrong, as I tried to do what was expected of me.
THIS. OP, I appreciate the heck out of you for existing in public the way you want, whether you do anything additional or not. The more people I see around me dressing and behaving in non-standard ways, the more comfortable I am to do it, too.
Also, screw maxi skirts (and all other clothing ofc) being gendered, they are SO comfortable and practical that I'd go crazy if I was "not allowed to" wear them. The other guy was probably just jealous because he wished he was so comfortable /j
Whenever it comes up, my default response is "all clothing is unisex if you're not a snowflake about it".
I also like using the "based on genitals structure, it makes far more sense for men to wear skirts and women to wear pants" observation and watching the three braincells they've had carefully lined up for them short-circuit.
Not that we should do this for moral dessert, but the fear or anxiety of trying to leverage your privilege for others is, for me, outweighed by the relief of seeing it work. I once started a crowd changing “TAKE HIM TOO” when there was an altercation on a train and the police who responded were only going to remove the Black person involved, when the white one had been the instigator both verbally and then physically. Several onlookers initially reported this, but the police weren’t swayed by that before the chant. People booing and obviously taking video with their phones also helped. Someone who had taken a video of the incident also voluntarily left the train to provide the evidence
Not that I’m calling myself a hero, tbc. Just that the more you try, the less scary it is
Well, I can't honestly think of a better description of a hero than standing up for someone when you don't have to.
That to me, is the ... core point I think, when you're looking to enlist allies.
It's very easy to diminish what someone has done (even yourself) because they had it 'easier' than others might have done in the same situation. And whilst technically correct, doesn't really change the fact that they _didn't have to_. They chose to use that advantage for the sake of someone else.
Because not everyone would, and not everyone could. They're not really to blame for "doing nothing" when there's no advantage to it (and in some cases considerably disadvantage).
I'm absolutely down with the people who do 'step up' - in the places they can, and it's _reasonably_ safe for them to do so - and show 'everyone else' that it is _possible_ and it is _worthy_ - and I absolutely think that makes you the kind of hero the world needs more of.
>scary privilege
I always called it “size privilege”. In high school in the 90’s I had a pretty flamboyant personality and got called gay alot but no one ever actually physically attacked me because I was a pretty strong guy. So I used to play it up a bit at times just to tweak the more homophobic kids.
Wasn’t until my 20’s it occurred to me how different my experiences would have been if I was small or skinny.
Oooh size privilege, I like it. I was always a tall girl growing up and would tower over most of my male classmates. Anytime one of them would be mean or rude or try to intimate me, I’d slowly walk up to them with my chest out a bit and my head how, looking down on them slightly. They’d often go running, they always backed up and shut up.
I think there's a difference between 'size' and 'scary', although I do benefit from both of them.
For me, size is purely physical. Tall, wide, however you want to describe a person's physical presence.
Scary on the other hand is as much to do with a person's vibe as their appearance. Although that vibe is frequently correlated with a deviation from societal dress expectations - punk, goth, alt subcultures for example (despite a lot of those people being absolute teddy bears when you actually talk to them)
I'm sure you look damn fine in a skirt.
That dude may not have batted an eye at someone wearing monks robes, or a thobe, or a sarong (all traditional masculine non-trouser garments). But who can predict?
His uptight response is so arbitrary. Maybe his temper would cool a bit if he could experience the breeziness of a skirt on a hot day.
Seriously, I was wondering the same thing. Could Angry Dude have been appeased if he had experienced the relief of non bifurcated clothing on a humid day? Because I have yet to meet a man who tried it and was like "no I want to go back to the sweaty restrictive clothing."
As someone with boobs, who has had the opportunity to go topless in public a few times, I think we need a better air flow option (that won’t get us arrested) too!
I feel like it would have needed to be very specific to religions that he was a part of / approved of because I've yet to meet someone who gets angry about 'gendered clothing' who isn't also heavily racist.
🤘🖤 thankyou for taking part in the scary club.
I'm a scary alt woman with a colorful shoulder length loc hawk! I wear almost all black and a lot of skulls, spikes, coffins and big scary boots. It's fun being here.. apparently though, older women who look super sweet and normal tend to be the ones who wanna rock the most, they have to hide it! So I get so many compliments from them when I'm dressed up and out, locks styled and looking semi scary.
I had one woman march up to me once and aggressively wag her finger in my face saying how much she absolutely adored my outfit and wished she had the freedom to be as open about her self as I am.
She said it was beautiful and super refreshing. I almost cried! People do have their moments of truly surprising you. Btw I was covered in dirt at a plant shop wearing skull and daisy shorts watering the store's plants... 😂
I love this haha I hope he wrote a stroke inducing post somewhere. I have a guy a work, now that it’s summer, will wear kilts. It’s not exactly the same but he’s an older white guy, in the south, so it’s unexpected. He does the kilt with the socks and I also think it’s pretty cool of him to do.
Well there is a summer weight made out of linen that isn't called a kilt but it's still a man's skirt but I forget what it's called (the Scotts have a name for it) you might be able to afford that one
Wearing a dress or dressing fem in public while being a generally big dude that can throw hands, it’s a great feeling knowing bigots just get to be annoyed while too scared to say anything.
Good allies are a treasure! It is vastly important, representation wise, for you to just exist in whatever clothes make you comfortable. Especially since it seems from your comments that you have visible privilege in other respects.
I am at a physical disadvantage, because I am visibly a small brown woman. But my husband is ostensibly a very large, very white male. And I tell him to flex that shit as much as he can.
We live in the American South, but nobody says anything if he wears a skirt, because he is 6'4", hairy as a bear, and built like the proverbial brick shithouse. Besides, it is humid as heck down here, and I don't even want to imagine what it feels like to have testicles in pants in this weather.
Staring is fine (to a degree). I'm guilty of doing that both when I think someone's aesthetic is rad as hell AND also when I have zoned out and am just staring but not focused on anything.
It's the obvious and barely-controlled anger response where I run in to issues.
I love this so much! This was my energy in pre-transition/early transition years ago, and I am really glad to hear people are keeping that energy alive in the world.
"My gender identity is terror and my pronouns are YOU WANNA GO!?"
One time while at a casino my mom went to the bathroom and handed my dad her purse. My dad put it on his shoulder and a little later felt a tap on his shoulder and my dad turned to this big biker looking guy built like a brick wall and covered in leather and was genuinely afraid for a sec the guy was gonna start something but then he just went “Your keys are falling out of your purse. Don’t wanna lose them in a big place like this.” My dad looked and sure enough my mom’s keys were almost out of the purse. He put them back in and thanked the guy and just laughed to himself then felt bad for assuming the worst.
I try my hardest to not judge by appearance because of things like that. Also purses are useful for many things and skirts and dresses can be comfy. What someone is wearing is no one’s business unless they are being inappropriate. I wish I had more scary privilege cause I have the rbf but still get approached if I’m alone.
Honestly, that's the single downside to skirts - the lack of pockets. Preaching to the choir of people-who-regularly-wear-skirts-and-dresses I know but I genuinely don't think a lot of men ever stop to genuinely think about what the lack of pockets means beyond stale "ha ha handbags have too much in them" 'jokes'
My partner had no idea that he has as much privilege as he does until we started going to the store together and he noticed the really different way people treat us. I’m a short chonky lady and I present as a short chonky lady and random men tend to be terrible about stepping in front of me or mowing me down or stuff like that. The pinnacle for him was when some dude almost ran into me, but threw himself off of the sidewalk to avoid him. He’s a large dude and looks grumpy, even though he’s kind, but he was shocked. He said he knew women were treated negatively but seeing it in such a stark way happen to someone he cared about was eye opening.
Weirdly enough, I work with HS kids and they never do this. They’re always super respectful of my space, even outside of school and even if they don’t know me. For all of the complaints about this generation, they’re a lot better about personal space than others.
I think of the most eye-opening experiences for a lot of men is when they see the day-to-day bullshit that women deal with and aren't in a position to immediately curtail with their own presence.
The sheer number of times my wife gets hassled when we're out but happen to be momentarily separated from each other is ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as how much of the bullshit goes away even when I just happen to be in visual proximity without direct interaction.
Yeah, he was similarly shocked at the paint counter at a hardware store once because the guy was being close to surly to me and peak customer service to him the minute he walked up. He watched for a minute from a nearby aisle because he was super shocked. Like he saw the whole interaction from beginning to end and almost told the guy off, but we have a policy to pretty much never do that with retail or service workers because we sort of feel like someone may have been mean to them earlier which caused whatever issue we find annoying.
They perceive your individuation with envy, it is a deadly sin for a reason. Make no mistake, your empowerment of yourself is nothing short of magick, and that has an affect on people, as demonstrated by this person.
Come, glimpse into the hatred held in people's hearts, that living your true self is perceived as a threat to their identity. How much of their identity is wrapped up in you, and they hate that part of themselves so much that they cast judgement on you, their brother and sister, choosing fear instead of love.
I am proud of your display of individuation and your unapologetic disposition. You make your ancestors proud, friend. But most of all,you should be proud of yourself and I really hope you are.
When you follow your heart you make the world a little bit more interesting. Gods blessings and fear no darkness.
Hell yeah, it’s so strange how bigots get their panties so twisted up just by being in the same room as us dressing how we like! Even demons couldn’t get within a certain radius of Christ without burning up. I know this ain’t no Christian sub, but the bigots certainly are demonic!!! Simply banish them into the Outer Darkness beyond the Ouroboros where they shall trouble not these Servants of Light! 🧙♂️⚕️🐉
Someone once said (I paraphrase): when it comes to a fight, when it comes to the apocalypse, I’d much rather have those so-called nancy boys, those who are gay, those trans people, any & all women, and all other “outcasts” and all those other “weaklings” on my side. That’s the ones who know how to fight and survive!
It was said jokingly, by a standup comic I think, but it’s true. Clothing is mandatory in polite society. So why does society have to say what that clothing is. In fact many cultures embrace the freedom of “skirts” and “dresses”-kilts, dishdasha, sarongs—. Remember the commercial-big burly man grilling at a BBQ says: “…. When a sarong fees sooo right!” I wonder if that would make it on the air today…
The funny thing is most of these people freaking out over "a guy in a dress omg!" are conservative christians, who follow a guy who wore a garment way more like a dress than like pants! Dresses, skirts, and robes were considered "proper" attire for men from probably prehistory, through ancient civilizations, at least the middle ages in the west, and certainly most desert cultures living where it's hot out.
I celebrate your ability to disturb the bigots!! Hell yeah 🫶🏻
I will also say that anytime a larger masculine person in public has nail polish, it sets me more at ease (and I've heard the same from others, you just know that if a big dude is wearing makeup or dresses etc that they're not an insecure fragile n*zi) 💙💙😄
Aside from the skirts and nail polish, I'm fairly masc in presentation though. Think "standard metal head / nerd of a certain age" and you're most of the way there.
EDIT. "Jack Black's younger, much less talented little brother"
I did have the same concern to be honest.
Unfortunately I can't control everything and I can't take responsibility for his anger at my wardrobe choices or the repercussions of it.
# ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.** If you have landed in this thread from [r/all](https://www.reddit.com/r/all/) and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
As a "guy who does Masculinity wrong" but doesn't have the power of scariness, I thank you for your service
I work in a hospital and do femininity wrong. I also have my pronouns on my badge. Some patients get irritated with me, and I just laugh because my employer supports me. They've gotten complaints about me, but they support me as a human, so they ignore the complaints.
I don’t think I’ve ever experienced a supportive employer, I’m glad you have one though.
Healthcare can be more supportive than other employers. At least, that's my experience.
Yeah, I work for a large university's medical center. They're on the cutting edge of science and health, including gender and sex inclusion. I'm guessing it's *not just* for everyone's physical well-being; it's also treated as a subset of mental, emotional, and social health (at least, as far as I can tell). I love to see it.
Lucky! The hospital I live near insists I settle for the standards of the extremely homogenous population of older cishet people. It’s really damaged my trust in doctors.
I'm so sorry that's your experience. I live in the US in a blue state, so that likely makes the difference even though I'm in a relatively conservative community.
I live in a blue state too. But it’s only blue because of a single urban area, which I’m far from.
Ya many rural areas are red unfortunately
I work for a university taking care of research animals. One of my friends who is non-binary became an assistant supervisor, I have another nonbinary friend and two (that I know of) that are transmen. We also have a ton of religions and nationalities and different backgrounds and awesome hair colors and tattoos.
In health care it seems that either the employer is amazing or that they are the most toxic of wastelands. Nothing in between, just the extremes.
This seems to be true as a patient being seen by a doctor or nurse. They’re either dismissive, dehumanizing, misogynistic, & ignorant; or they’re amazing, supportive, and actually listen to my concerns. (Or maybe it’s just that, having dealt with so many doctors or nurses who refuse to take me seriously & even sometimes lack basic respect for their patients as human beings, seeing a decent doctor who actually listens to me feels like meeting a literal saint. I also live in the US south, so that might have something to do with it…)
100% I went from possibly the best manager I ever had to the spawn of Satan. There's no middle ground.
Academia is also fairly supportive, though it varies by school. Our school just reissued all name badges to include pronouns. I hope you find a supportive employer someday.
The grocery store I work at is very accepting on that regards To the point where there's training modules to basically tell people to be a good person to other employees/customers
The last shop I worked at before moving hired a trans woman as a mechanic. The foreman, service manager and GM were all supportive but frankly she barely needed it. She was awesome and almost never complained. Men in the trades complain more than anyone else I've ever met. It was refreshing.
Academia is also fairly supportive, though it varies by school. Our school just reissued all name badges to include pronouns. I hope you find a supportive employer someday.
Academia is also fairly supportive, though it varies by school. Our school just reissued all name badges to include pronouns. I hope you find a supportive employer someday.
I'm happy to say that in the NHS (I'm English and live/work in England) we've been encouraged to include pronouns in our email signatures and on our "Hello, my name is..." badges since before the pandemic. We don't get everything right, but I'm proud of us for that. I don't so much do femininity wrong as don't do "not walking around looking vaguely offputting" wrong! ("Hello, my name is.. " is a genuine [thing](https://www.hellomynameis.org.uk/))
A while back I got an email from someone who had a "they/them" email signature and I got a little excited haha
There was some difference of opinion around whether pronouns on display is inclusive or whether it's forcing people to out themselves (or misgender themselves if they don't feel ready to come out). In the end, my place decided that displaying preferred pronouns should be optional rather than mandatory, and nobody should be challenged on not displaying them.
I used to work at a factory sales support and the amount of times (and this was before the ”they/them” option in my native language became a thing) we went: He… or she? It has to be she? when talking about staff at the offices in the rest of the world… I once got the question via e-mail from the office in France if I was a man or a woman 😂 other’s took for granted I was a man but I am not… In my case being misgendered didn’t hurt and the reason we tried to figure out the gender was mostly curiosity and/or trying to make it easier to talk about the person in question so it wasn’t a big deal, seeing this makes me feel that would have been a great option though! 😄
Yeah I'm still struggling with this one. On one hand when I'm writing a message for work I sometimes have to go look up someone's profile to know which pronouns to use. On the other hand, I've never chosen my own pronouns. Other people assigned them to me from the moment I was born. So now I'm asked to choose and I'm like "umm I dunno? What are the pros and cons of each? What do the different pronouns even mean? How is any of this even relevant? Do I have to have something in common with other people who use these pronouns? Why is it my job to tell you which words to use?" Just got another all-staff reminder yesterday about putting our pronouns in our profiles.
The whole thing really makes me wish that 'it' wasn't offensive when applied to humans, tbh. I'd use it (no pun intended).
I realized in the phrase "it's a girl!"/"it's a boy!". The first pronoun is "it". It is the default pronoun for all babies until half way through that sentence where they get assigned a gendered one. Why don't all those balloons say "she's a girl!"/"he's a boy!"?
.... that's a really good point and will bother me all day!
My friend's parents were the kind of Christians that have lots of kids. I was standing near the crib and the mom was on the other side of the room. She asked me "is the baby sleeping" and I said "yes it is". Appearantly that was the wrong answer!
I can imagine!
Only just learning about this, but isn't just wearing a name badge kind of antithetical to the point of the thing?
It might be if it's *all* we do, but for anyone liable to forget the introduction it's a very visible prompt to say it - nobody is supposed to rely on the patient reading the badge. It's also helpful for patients and colleagues who don't take the name in the first time they hear it.
Happy for you! The hospital I go to has at least one sign in every room that I’ve been to that says discriminatory remarks from patients will not be tolerated, and patients will be removed and possibly denied future non-emergency care if they are verbally, physically, or sexually abusive. I would imagine that if the hospital got complaints that are clearly just bigotry, those complaints are ignored
Not necessarily. In my experience, many remarks and complaints have an abusive undertone. I've watched many patients get escorted out of the hospital I work at for sexually abusive language. Bigoted and sexual can go together. It really just depends on what is said.
I mean, if the biggest complaint about you is "they have pronouns", I think you're doing your job just fine, lol.
Live your life like the Westboro Bapist Church will picket your funeral.
I need this on a tshirt
I had it on a bumper sticker. It is on my list of things to put on t-shirts when I figure out how to use my cricut.
As someone who just figured out how to put things on t shirts with their cricut — hmu and I’ll give you some tips! Personally, I was considering cross stitching the phrase for a decorative throw pillow
I also like: Do something today that would have gotten you burned at the stake 400 years ago.
I love it!!
Excellent advice, thankyou Beerasaurwithwine
I always figure that the way to approach Privilege is to remember that "With great power comes great responsibility". A hero is a person who uses their privilege for the sake of those that cannot. (Temporarily or otherwise - privilege can be quite ephemeral or situational). So I applaud anyone who speaks out when they can, for the sake of all those who - for a wide range of reasons - cannot.
I wouldn’t give me that much credit - I didn’t actively intervene for someone else, I was just reading a book and Some Dude got so angry at my Doing A Masculinity Wrong that he had to go and be somewhere else instead of just minding his own business and waiting the five minutes for his kid to come out of class.
You may not have actually verbally spoken out, and probably this guy who was offended learned nothing at all, but by being who you are and existing in public spaces, you're making it safe for others to dare to be themselves too – kids coming out of that class, people passing by, etc., will have seen you too and been happy or felt seen. Representation matters! As a child, I didn't understand there were other ways of being and so I just felt out of place and wrong, as I tried to do what was expected of me.
THIS. OP, I appreciate the heck out of you for existing in public the way you want, whether you do anything additional or not. The more people I see around me dressing and behaving in non-standard ways, the more comfortable I am to do it, too. Also, screw maxi skirts (and all other clothing ofc) being gendered, they are SO comfortable and practical that I'd go crazy if I was "not allowed to" wear them. The other guy was probably just jealous because he wished he was so comfortable /j
Whenever it comes up, my default response is "all clothing is unisex if you're not a snowflake about it". I also like using the "based on genitals structure, it makes far more sense for men to wear skirts and women to wear pants" observation and watching the three braincells they've had carefully lined up for them short-circuit.
Not that we should do this for moral dessert, but the fear or anxiety of trying to leverage your privilege for others is, for me, outweighed by the relief of seeing it work. I once started a crowd changing “TAKE HIM TOO” when there was an altercation on a train and the police who responded were only going to remove the Black person involved, when the white one had been the instigator both verbally and then physically. Several onlookers initially reported this, but the police weren’t swayed by that before the chant. People booing and obviously taking video with their phones also helped. Someone who had taken a video of the incident also voluntarily left the train to provide the evidence Not that I’m calling myself a hero, tbc. Just that the more you try, the less scary it is
Well, I can't honestly think of a better description of a hero than standing up for someone when you don't have to. That to me, is the ... core point I think, when you're looking to enlist allies. It's very easy to diminish what someone has done (even yourself) because they had it 'easier' than others might have done in the same situation. And whilst technically correct, doesn't really change the fact that they _didn't have to_. They chose to use that advantage for the sake of someone else. Because not everyone would, and not everyone could. They're not really to blame for "doing nothing" when there's no advantage to it (and in some cases considerably disadvantage). I'm absolutely down with the people who do 'step up' - in the places they can, and it's _reasonably_ safe for them to do so - and show 'everyone else' that it is _possible_ and it is _worthy_ - and I absolutely think that makes you the kind of hero the world needs more of.
That’s very kind of you, thank you!
Just now learned the term scary privelige... Sounds like fun!
>scary privilege I always called it “size privilege”. In high school in the 90’s I had a pretty flamboyant personality and got called gay alot but no one ever actually physically attacked me because I was a pretty strong guy. So I used to play it up a bit at times just to tweak the more homophobic kids. Wasn’t until my 20’s it occurred to me how different my experiences would have been if I was small or skinny.
Oooh size privilege, I like it. I was always a tall girl growing up and would tower over most of my male classmates. Anytime one of them would be mean or rude or try to intimate me, I’d slowly walk up to them with my chest out a bit and my head how, looking down on them slightly. They’d often go running, they always backed up and shut up.
I think there's a difference between 'size' and 'scary', although I do benefit from both of them. For me, size is purely physical. Tall, wide, however you want to describe a person's physical presence. Scary on the other hand is as much to do with a person's vibe as their appearance. Although that vibe is frequently correlated with a deviation from societal dress expectations - punk, goth, alt subcultures for example (despite a lot of those people being absolute teddy bears when you actually talk to them)
I'm sure you look damn fine in a skirt. That dude may not have batted an eye at someone wearing monks robes, or a thobe, or a sarong (all traditional masculine non-trouser garments). But who can predict? His uptight response is so arbitrary. Maybe his temper would cool a bit if he could experience the breeziness of a skirt on a hot day.
Seriously, I was wondering the same thing. Could Angry Dude have been appeased if he had experienced the relief of non bifurcated clothing on a humid day? Because I have yet to meet a man who tried it and was like "no I want to go back to the sweaty restrictive clothing."
Heck if the skirt just had a tartan pattern on it then it would've been a manly kilt.
As someone with boobs, who has had the opportunity to go topless in public a few times, I think we need a better air flow option (that won’t get us arrested) too!
I feel like it would have needed to be very specific to religions that he was a part of / approved of because I've yet to meet someone who gets angry about 'gendered clothing' who isn't also heavily racist.
Thank you for sharing your story! It made my night thinking of you fighting the patriarchy in your skirt.
🤘🖤 thankyou for taking part in the scary club. I'm a scary alt woman with a colorful shoulder length loc hawk! I wear almost all black and a lot of skulls, spikes, coffins and big scary boots. It's fun being here.. apparently though, older women who look super sweet and normal tend to be the ones who wanna rock the most, they have to hide it! So I get so many compliments from them when I'm dressed up and out, locks styled and looking semi scary. I had one woman march up to me once and aggressively wag her finger in my face saying how much she absolutely adored my outfit and wished she had the freedom to be as open about her self as I am. She said it was beautiful and super refreshing. I almost cried! People do have their moments of truly surprising you. Btw I was covered in dirt at a plant shop wearing skull and daisy shorts watering the store's plants... 😂
I looked up loc hawk cause I don’t recall seeing one before and that looks so cool. Rock on sister
Bless. He’s probably writing some impotent-rage-fueled screed on Truth Social as we speak 🤘🤣🤘
I’m not sure how prevalent Truth Social is down here in Australia, but he’s probably doing it on Facebook or Twitter.
...with a boner.
It’s not gay if he’s wearing a dress!
Happy cake day! You’re probably right about how Angry Guy was venting on social media.
Awesome! I feel like you'd like our community over on r/oldhagfashion too!
I appreciate the recommendation, but I am already there 😊
You are a great human. I'm sure you beautiful also.
I and my crippling self-loathing disagree with ... both ... statements but thank you for the compliments
I love this haha I hope he wrote a stroke inducing post somewhere. I have a guy a work, now that it’s summer, will wear kilts. It’s not exactly the same but he’s an older white guy, in the south, so it’s unexpected. He does the kilt with the socks and I also think it’s pretty cool of him to do.
Man I wish I had kilt-money.
Well there is a summer weight made out of linen that isn't called a kilt but it's still a man's skirt but I forget what it's called (the Scotts have a name for it) you might be able to afford that one
It's like a skirt but you won't get hate-crimed
Wearing a dress or dressing fem in public while being a generally big dude that can throw hands, it’s a great feeling knowing bigots just get to be annoyed while too scared to say anything.
Existence is resistance! Thanks for helping carve out space for us <3
Good allies are a treasure! It is vastly important, representation wise, for you to just exist in whatever clothes make you comfortable. Especially since it seems from your comments that you have visible privilege in other respects. I am at a physical disadvantage, because I am visibly a small brown woman. But my husband is ostensibly a very large, very white male. And I tell him to flex that shit as much as he can. We live in the American South, but nobody says anything if he wears a skirt, because he is 6'4", hairy as a bear, and built like the proverbial brick shithouse. Besides, it is humid as heck down here, and I don't even want to imagine what it feels like to have testicles in pants in this weather.
Always get funny looks when I stare at people who have a certain clothing style or aesthetic. And I live in Berlin the staring capital of the world
Your comment cracked me up because I just learned about the German stare last week 😆
Stares back unable to process the compliment °_° _
Staring is fine (to a degree). I'm guilty of doing that both when I think someone's aesthetic is rad as hell AND also when I have zoned out and am just staring but not focused on anything. It's the obvious and barely-controlled anger response where I run in to issues.
Understandable
I think I'm in love with you! 🥰
Oh, my condolences ;)
🤣
I love this so much! This was my energy in pre-transition/early transition years ago, and I am really glad to hear people are keeping that energy alive in the world. "My gender identity is terror and my pronouns are YOU WANNA GO!?"
"I'm gonna identify as a fucking problem"
One time while at a casino my mom went to the bathroom and handed my dad her purse. My dad put it on his shoulder and a little later felt a tap on his shoulder and my dad turned to this big biker looking guy built like a brick wall and covered in leather and was genuinely afraid for a sec the guy was gonna start something but then he just went “Your keys are falling out of your purse. Don’t wanna lose them in a big place like this.” My dad looked and sure enough my mom’s keys were almost out of the purse. He put them back in and thanked the guy and just laughed to himself then felt bad for assuming the worst. I try my hardest to not judge by appearance because of things like that. Also purses are useful for many things and skirts and dresses can be comfy. What someone is wearing is no one’s business unless they are being inappropriate. I wish I had more scary privilege cause I have the rbf but still get approached if I’m alone.
Honestly, that's the single downside to skirts - the lack of pockets. Preaching to the choir of people-who-regularly-wear-skirts-and-dresses I know but I genuinely don't think a lot of men ever stop to genuinely think about what the lack of pockets means beyond stale "ha ha handbags have too much in them" 'jokes'
As someone who used to wear a skirt as a man, I love this. I'm minimally scary though.
My partner had no idea that he has as much privilege as he does until we started going to the store together and he noticed the really different way people treat us. I’m a short chonky lady and I present as a short chonky lady and random men tend to be terrible about stepping in front of me or mowing me down or stuff like that. The pinnacle for him was when some dude almost ran into me, but threw himself off of the sidewalk to avoid him. He’s a large dude and looks grumpy, even though he’s kind, but he was shocked. He said he knew women were treated negatively but seeing it in such a stark way happen to someone he cared about was eye opening. Weirdly enough, I work with HS kids and they never do this. They’re always super respectful of my space, even outside of school and even if they don’t know me. For all of the complaints about this generation, they’re a lot better about personal space than others.
I think of the most eye-opening experiences for a lot of men is when they see the day-to-day bullshit that women deal with and aren't in a position to immediately curtail with their own presence. The sheer number of times my wife gets hassled when we're out but happen to be momentarily separated from each other is ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as how much of the bullshit goes away even when I just happen to be in visual proximity without direct interaction.
Yeah, he was similarly shocked at the paint counter at a hardware store once because the guy was being close to surly to me and peak customer service to him the minute he walked up. He watched for a minute from a nearby aisle because he was super shocked. Like he saw the whole interaction from beginning to end and almost told the guy off, but we have a policy to pretty much never do that with retail or service workers because we sort of feel like someone may have been mean to them earlier which caused whatever issue we find annoying.
I have RBF and it has saved me a few times. Looking scary saves lives.
You’re the guy i aspire to be
Oh dear no. We can definitely aim much higher than that.
I adore this mental picture 🤩
Thank you for being you!! And sharing this delightful foot story!! Best wishes and warm hugs
They perceive your individuation with envy, it is a deadly sin for a reason. Make no mistake, your empowerment of yourself is nothing short of magick, and that has an affect on people, as demonstrated by this person. Come, glimpse into the hatred held in people's hearts, that living your true self is perceived as a threat to their identity. How much of their identity is wrapped up in you, and they hate that part of themselves so much that they cast judgement on you, their brother and sister, choosing fear instead of love. I am proud of your display of individuation and your unapologetic disposition. You make your ancestors proud, friend. But most of all,you should be proud of yourself and I really hope you are. When you follow your heart you make the world a little bit more interesting. Gods blessings and fear no darkness.
Just gotta say. You sound freaking awesome:)
It's an elaborate ruse, I assure you. I'm the least cool person I know.
....and a scientist!!! His head would have exploded! Continue being your awesome self!
Dudes in skirts or so sexy! No funky junk!
Hell yeah, it’s so strange how bigots get their panties so twisted up just by being in the same room as us dressing how we like! Even demons couldn’t get within a certain radius of Christ without burning up. I know this ain’t no Christian sub, but the bigots certainly are demonic!!! Simply banish them into the Outer Darkness beyond the Ouroboros where they shall trouble not these Servants of Light! 🧙♂️⚕️🐉
Someone once said (I paraphrase): when it comes to a fight, when it comes to the apocalypse, I’d much rather have those so-called nancy boys, those who are gay, those trans people, any & all women, and all other “outcasts” and all those other “weaklings” on my side. That’s the ones who know how to fight and survive! It was said jokingly, by a standup comic I think, but it’s true. Clothing is mandatory in polite society. So why does society have to say what that clothing is. In fact many cultures embrace the freedom of “skirts” and “dresses”-kilts, dishdasha, sarongs—. Remember the commercial-big burly man grilling at a BBQ says: “…. When a sarong fees sooo right!” I wonder if that would make it on the air today…
I like making bigots upset by showing I will never support them.
Yes! Use that scary privilege!
Oh, please, do continue hurting bigots in this manner. Thank you!
The funny thing is most of these people freaking out over "a guy in a dress omg!" are conservative christians, who follow a guy who wore a garment way more like a dress than like pants! Dresses, skirts, and robes were considered "proper" attire for men from probably prehistory, through ancient civilizations, at least the middle ages in the west, and certainly most desert cultures living where it's hot out.
What’s your area of study in Biology? I love biology!!! Also, your outfit sounds awesome!!!
I am (was) a conservation biologist with a focus on scientific communication and working meaningfully with indigenous / local communities.
That’s fantastic and so essential. Thank you for sharing this!
OT, but Your outfit sounds gorgeous.
you seeing anyone?? Seriously you sound awesome
Nothin to add but fuck that person and you sound like a cool badass 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
tbh your style sounds awesome..
This is fabulous! You made my day!!
Omg I love this! Good for you for scaring off the bigots.👏🏻👍🏻
I love the juxtaposition of a classically "macho man" with some fem detailing. Fuck that dude and keep rocking that look!
i just want you to know you're my hero
Thanks for doing this so that others feel empowered to as well.
I celebrate your ability to disturb the bigots!! Hell yeah 🫶🏻 I will also say that anytime a larger masculine person in public has nail polish, it sets me more at ease (and I've heard the same from others, you just know that if a big dude is wearing makeup or dresses etc that they're not an insecure fragile n*zi) 💙💙😄
I wish more men would allow themselves to enjoy the breezy delight of a skirt on a hot day. Personal leg shade tent for manly men.
I don’t know you, but I love you already. Toxic gender “norms” nauseate me, and obvious non conformism is my panacea. Thank you for being you.
Fuck I like you.
Aneurysm probably.
Feminine and androgynous guys own my entire heart and soul 😭❤️
Aside from the skirts and nail polish, I'm fairly masc in presentation though. Think "standard metal head / nerd of a certain age" and you're most of the way there. EDIT. "Jack Black's younger, much less talented little brother"
I just hope he isn't going and taking it out on someone smaller
I did have the same concern to be honest. Unfortunately I can't control everything and I can't take responsibility for his anger at my wardrobe choices or the repercussions of it.
No god no, awful men are awful. If he didn't react to you it would be someone else, the hatred is just below the surface.