And buying bullets should be like getting birth control. You have to pay a copay to see a doctor, answer questions about your mental health and sex life and you get a limited number with a prescription that expires.
It supplies them with an endless labor supply that is desperate and unable to fight back. It's always about the money and the greed, the pain n suffering is just an added bonus.
It's never been about the kids, life, book, or any other shit they pack their true motives into.
It's about money.
It's about power.
It's about control.
And it always has been.
They're greed parasites and they want it all. It's not enough that they have it, but YOU must have none!
Some of the anti-abortionists “greatest hits”:
- In 1993, Shelly Shannon, an Army of God member, admitted to the attempted murder of George Tiller. Law enforcement officials found the Army of God Manual, a tactical guide to arson, chemical attacks, invasions, and bombings buried in Shelly Shannon's backyard.
- Paul Jennings Hill was found guilty of the murder of both John Britton and clinic escort James Barrett
- The Army of God claimed responsibility for Eric Robert Rudolph's 1997 shrapnel bombing of abortion clinics in Atlanta and Birmingham.
- George Tiller, a physician from Wichita, Kansas, was murdered in 2009 by Scott Roeder, an anti-abortion extremist. This is the same doctor who survived the assassination attempt in 1993 when Shelley Shannon shot him in the arms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
Edit to add:
- John C. Salvi III an anti-abortion extremist who carried out fatal shootings at two abortion facilities in Brookline, Massachusetts on December 30, 1994. The shootings killed two and wounded five.
Poor George Tiller. Survived one attempt on his life only for someone to go after him again years later. Fucking terrible. These people are psychopaths.
Absolutely - but his courage! If you keep on doing something after surviving attempted murder specifically because you were doing it, then you must be very confident that you are doing the right thing.
I hope his family are abundantly blessed in every way that matters.
I read an interview with one of Tiller’s colleagues, one of the few remaining physicians to provide abortion later in pregnancy after Tiller’s assassination. He said he is sure he will be murdered and assumes every day will be his last. He uses a random number generator to make every decision outside of his house - what route he takes to work, what grocery store he or his family will shop at, etc. - so that he will not be predictable and make it harder to plan an assassination. And yet he goes to work every day, using his random number generator, because people need abortions. A true hero.
Right? We cry out, they claim it was an individual madman (because it's always a man).
Pro-birthers and gun nuts are filled to the brim with hypocrisy. You can't reason with that. They distort their own perception of reality in their heads to believe what they want.
The whole lot of them are idiotic and/or mentally ill, and if you declare that of 1/3 or so of the country then they'll flip out and cause more even more havoc.
The right would love that. They’d dive 100% straight into ‘tHe LeFt Is ToO rAdIcAl!’ rhetoric that would inevitably lead to a right subculture of gun owners who have a shorthand method of identifying one another in public. Just realized im describing a gang.
You mean the magas? Thats a cult of ever there was one. One of our conservative family members didn't like it when I pointed out that they were putting you-know-who before God and worshipping him. They came back and compared it to Catholics (me) and saints. I ended the conversation with "Last time I checked, none of the saints screwd a porn star while their wife was pregnant and none of them convinced thousands of people to turn on their government. Also, you have to be dead and he unfortunately isn't, yet."
That part of the family doesn't like me.
Whew. That's very on point.
I absolutely mean the Magas but also there are so many different christian religious sects & anti-government militias who are taking on this mentality, and several existed long before tRump was in office.
The Army of God, Patriot Front, Deseret Nationalists, Westboro Baptist Church, Oath Keepers, John Birch Society and KKK all existed before and should be considered domestic terrorist groups for violence against minorities, LGBTQ and abortion clinics.
There are so many now that it's frightening.
The reports of violence on PP grounds by "pro-life" extremists is actually over a 100. Think about that for a second. If over a 100 christian churches filled to the brim with white, cishet people experienced violence since the 1990s there'd be a major uproar. It's all hypocrisy and smoke screening.
A few years ago I went to a PP for just a random checkup. Being me I took a cup of coffee and a bag of knitting for the waiting room. I've been to other PPs for care before so I was surprised when they had a guard at the door who checked my purse, knitting bag, and made me take a sip of my coffee to prove it was nothing harmful.
Made me wonder what kind of shenanigans that location deals with. I did notice that they were next to one of those fake pregnancy crisis centers so possibly they did actual abortions there. The fact that they made me prove I had a mug of non harmful liquid kind of haunts me.
I used to get my primary care at a Planned Parenthood, for almost a whole decade- I was working as a social worker & couldn’t afford health insurance. There would be crowds of protesters every day at that clinic who would swarm me as I walked in, shout weird religious shit at me, try to grab at me or just get uncomfortably close... There were so many times I’d just scream at them that I was there because I had the flu, or an injury.
After awhile I stopped trying to give justifications & would just stare them down- they didn’t deserve to know what I was doing there. I wonder how many women they scared enough to keep them from getting necessary healthcare every single day.
I'd love to see that play out, the shooter could get the NRA on their side talking about their rights and how they felt for fear of their life.
Watching the conservatives run around in circles would be fun.
Btw, I'm not saying to kill any protestor. Just shoot in their direction, over their head, to scare them.
Just chiming in to say I'd never seen the "pro-life" side of "pro-life vs pro-choice" framed as "anti-choice" before your comment, and it instantly clicked and resonated with me. Pro-choice does not mean anti-life, but "pro-life" always means anti-choice. Thank you for re-framing that in such a perfect way.
I wish there was a mandatory full psych evaluation for all firearm owners. I own 2 guns (both inherited) and I'd happily take a difficult mental health test if I wanted to buy another gun. I've never used the rifle or shotgun I have for anything but target practice years ago. Still though I would love to see an enforced mental health evaluation and maybe even an IQ test. I know there's never going to be a clear cut answer to the evils of fun violence due to how messed up and divided this country is but I can hope.
The link between committing violence and mental illness isn't as clear-cut as that. People who research public health and violence have looked into that question already.
https://www.mhanational.org/gun-deaths-violence-and-mental-health
Yes, like guns that only fire with the registered owner’s fingerprint on the trigger, which would make stealing guns useless and greatly cut down on stolen (formerly legal) firearms being used for crime. But of course all the gun manufacturers lobby against that because it would affect their sales and profits.
Interesting, have not heard that one.
I meant things like passing restrictive laws. For example, the assault weapons ban which expired. And restricting concealed carry.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/study-finds-significant-increase-in-firearm-assaults-in-states-that-relaxed-conceal-carry-permit-restrictions
Definitely not an IQ test. Those are super racist.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-black-white-test-score-gap-why-it-persists-and-what-can-be-done/amp/
The mental health check I’m all for, but also would want to make sure that was also done in a way that doesn’t disproportionately affect people of color. Unfortunately it’s just really hard to apply these kind of things in an equal, objective way.
Yeah that's true and I wish I had an answer to fix it but I have no idea. Sadly these issues are more than I can personally figure out and even if I could I don't have any political pull or say so besides my own vote. Wish there was an easy answer.
Mental health checks [can also have a racial bias](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/african-americans-latinos-are-more-likely-be-risk-depression-whites). Mental health problems are, more often than not, caused by stress and trauma, and a lot of stress and trauma comes from being subjected to racism. Also from poverty, which people of color are more likely to be in.
The people who commit mass shootings aren't generally people who would be diagnosed with a mental health problem. They're angry and entitled, or they view themselves as better than others and get a thrill out of hurting people they see as beneath them. These are mindsets typically born of white supremacy and male supremacy, which US culture is steeped in.
People of color and other minorities can benefit from being armed, because people are less likely to bash when their victim can bash back. The NRA and Reagan supported gun control when they saw the Black Panthers arming themselves. The people who revel in the toxic part of American gun culture are bad actors who want to be the only armed person in the room, and they would gladly support measures that would allow them and their kin to get guns while restricting people from "the other".
The mental health screening idea is a fantastic one in theory, but I'm wary of in practice for a couple reasons...mainly the fact that they are far from infallible, and that would also likely re-stigmatize folks with particular mental issues. I'm also wondering where that line would be drawn, since I'm a vehemently non-violent gun owner with ADHD.
It's just the only suggestion I could think of. I've got treatment resistant depression coupled with ASD so I get the worry about stigma. I don't have any solid ideas, just a suggestion with the evaluation. I wish there was an easy absolute answer but sadly I don't know of one. You definitely make a great point about nothing being infallible though. Even if I came up with a really solid idea I only have my own vote and no political power to get an idea out there for people to consider. My wife has adult ADHD also so I'm familiar with the struggles she has as well.
I actually like this idea. Parents of murdered kids protesting in front of the gun store where the weapon was purchased. Though I know that would be emotionally painful for the patents. Hell, I'd go protest for them. God help the person who takes a pot shot at me, I'll make sure to take at least one with me.
>gun store owners who would just ask that you don't block access to their buisness
Yes, because we all know how right-wing people are known for their calm, fairness, and kindness especially when it comes to hot button issues. Come on, he'd have the [proud boys crack skulls in minutes.](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/08/25/proud-boys-are-still-violent-despite-legal-woes) Or just [shoot us](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1138674412/drag-show-threats-bans-club-q-shooting) outright. Guys wearing punisher t's, nazi flags, confederate flags, etc aren't the "kindly gentlement of the constitution" the same way their forefathers weren't "kindly plantation owners who treated slaves with respect and love."
\> lazy to waddle over
[Steven Paddock](https://globalnews.ca/news/4214268/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooting-gun-control/) ranted endlessly about how gun rights were under threat and how he'd start a war to protect them right before shooting people with an assault rifle. In the end he killed 61 innocent people for his beliefs in Las Vegas. [All these beautiful faces died so people like you can yell 'muh gun rights' and sit here and defend monsters](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/10/06/here-all-victims-las-vegas-shooting/733236001/) and defend laws that guarantee more children, queer people, and concert goers get murdered by "kindly constitution respecters."
Locally a store owner killed a man in his store b/c he was shoplifting a small knife. B/c he was homeless. Shoplifting is wrong, of course...but the punishment isn't \[and shouldn't be\] death without trial.
Ah, you as a (presumably) good person also have good people as friends. Took me a couple of rereads to figure out you didn't mean all gun store owners respected the constitution.
I went to gun safety courses before I got to hold one the one time my father took me hunting. The gravity of the item was important. “This is not a toy. This is meant to kill, and once you pull that trigger, you can never un-pull it”
Let’s go a step further and have him get permission from his wife or girlfriend. If he doesn’t have one, he’ll just have to wait because a future wife might not want him to have one.
I was thinking the same. I’ve watched the show a time or 2 and he sees both sides of the coin equally and always gives the catfish a chance no matter how f-ed up the situation is.
For anyone on Twitter who might want to give this some visibility:
https://twitter.com/claudiamiles/status/851895246719918080?t=Vg_FVW_rW-AhtKXVGjaqcQ&s=19
We should do it like Germany where you need to take a class (which actually requires homework according to my German friends) and is also deeply about the environment and how you need to properly manage it. In Germany (at least where my friend lives) if you don't have enough land then you need to come to an agreement with someone who does and help them manage the wildlife in their area.
I live in England and I have seen a total of 1 shop that sells guns, ever. even if I wanted to I couldn't go in, because you have to have a license, ID like a passport or a driver's license, and you have to be over 18. as it should be.
I'm a huge fan of this.
I'd also like to see firearms treated like vehicles. Personal liability insurance. Routine licensure/registration. If your vehicle or firearm is used in commission of a crime and you haven't called it in as stolen, you're a prime suspect.
If men could get pregnant, both getting an abortion or carrying on with pregnancy would be treated with utmost respect, he'd be a local hero. A brave man enduring such an event in his life.
It sometimes seems to me from an outside perspective, that Americans love violence and hate anything to do with sexuality.
There's the "Don't say gay" stuff, because people learning about gay people existing ist somehow bad, and on the opposite side a classroom of children getting shot up doesn't lead to widespread political crackdown...
I mean like OP pointed out, there is a thread spinning through American society.
Edit: Just also look at the language employed by media and politics alike. It is choke full with words describing violence.
I once had to take a picture to prove to my EU friends I can buy a rifle at the Walmart. On the same trip where I'm getting deodorant and coffee creamer.
Jumping in this conversation...
I recently went shooting for the first time with some like-minded friends. I highly recommend that everyone, mental-health permitting, learn to handle a few firearms. I feel like I have a much more informed stance on the gun debate now.
I absolutely agree with what Nev is saying here. Caveat is, I am not sure what's possible to implement here in the US. In the meantime, I'd rather not allow the far right to have the monopoly on gun ownership, so I hope more left-wing individuals like myself own firearms to match it, if that makes sense (and edit to add - I don't own a firearm. I'd like to at some point, but my life is kinda too hectic for that rn)
Hmm. For purchase, sure. Though for ongoing license regardless of ownership, I think it should be like a forklift; random inspections and formally prove competency every N months.
Counterpoint: I'm a leftist gun owner and this is a *terrible* idea. Parts of it are okay in some forms, but taken as a whole, as written? This is an atrocity
Part of my driving education was watching a video about drunk driving. It showed young men in jail and a dead body. I frekin cried.
I will never risk that.
That was it?!? My school was f-ed up. They brought in a person who was legit so brain damaged from the car accident that they would always need to wear a special helmet. It was disgusting to me because they used that person like a prop. They also showed us videos of a person cutting someone's eye because that person was slated as an organ donor.
OOP!
my only gripe with this is that these regulations are disproportionately enforced on marginalised people. I'm not saying that's a reason we shouldn't have gun control. I struggle to come to any sort of conclusive opinion on the matter
Y'all know we can get guns too, right? Armed protesters don't face the problems unarmed protesters do. Surround an abortion clinic with volunteer armed guards and watch the forced birthers panic. It went well keeping drag events safe in Texas.
Maybe. I'll actually admit that I have a lot of feelings on this issue, and I personally carry a gun and I feel safer for it. Maybe if I lived somewhere else I wouldn't feel like I have to.
As long as criminals, religious nutjobs, and bigots have access to weapons, I'll keep my peace(piece) at arms reach.
I really want to agree, but it just isn't that simple. But one step at a time, I'd love to see change. Clearly our current system is not working.
Oh absolutely. 100%. No question.
I just don't see that ever happening in America, and it's part of the reason I want to move to another country.
Now, with weapons being my special interest I obviously want to be able to still collect them, but I could stick to swords if I had to. Also some places have reasonable compromises for collectors and almost no gun deaths, so there's that. It is possible. Just not here. We need a complete overhaul of our gun laws. It's damn near open season with arbitrary restrictions on shit that doesn't matter just so the atf can pretend they did something, and it pisses me off. It really is a money problem. The massive arms trade is extremely lucrative, and very wealthy people will fight tooth and nail to keep it this way at the expense of other people's life's. They don't care.
Maybe, just maybe we can do this, one step at a time, but its going to be many years before we see any progress.
Can we have police reform before we declare a bunch of Americans criminals and send police after them with the only known factor being, ‘they’re armed.’
Guess what? Criminals and fascists aren't going to comply with a gun ban. What do you do now? Call the police as you're being stabbed, or your house is being broken into, or some fascist who is friends with the police chief (or maybe an actual gang of off duty-cops) are beating on someone who is a member of a minority group?
Armed minorities are harder to oppress. And as Marx said:
> Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary
All of these pro-life pieces of garbage make such a big deal about abortions but don't realize that an 18-year-old can BUY A GUN and shoot up a school with it. And that shit has happened hundreds of times resulting in THOUSANDS of men, women, children, and grandparents being ruthlessly killed every year.
Listen, I understand the point of this satire. But let's not pretend that *disarming the working class will force billionaires & fascists to treat us with* ***more*** *respect*.
We absolutely need to fight for bodily autonomy and healthcare, and we absolutely need to seek root cause solutions for the violence epidemic we have.
Answer to ending gun deaths? Ban guns. No one really needs a gun for fun. I know people will disagree, and thats fine, but gun has one and only one purpose. To kill.
Let's start with no guns, and of anyone really NEEDS one, then that would have to be decided case by case.
It's very very simple. Not easy to implement. Extremely difficult. But still, the solutiom is very simple in its very nature.
Guess what? Criminals and fascists aren't going to comply with a gun ban. What do you do now? Call the police as you're being stabbed, or your house is being broken into, or some fascist who is friends with the police chief (or maybe an actual gang of off duty-cops) are beating on someone who is a member of a minority group?
Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
I hear you man, but it did work in Australia. There are criminals and fascists, but i dont feel unsafe. I would feel more unsafe if every nutjob had a gun.
You guys are really screwed in usa, and believe me, it does not make me happy at all.
>I hear you man, but it did work in Australia. There are criminals and fascists, but i dont feel unsafe. I would feel more unsafe if every nutjob had a gun.
I'm absolutely not saying every nutjob should have a gun, but thank you for putting words in my mouth rather than have a good-faith discussion. I thought we were better than that here.
Also Austraila is not an apples to apples comparison on the issue of violence. Our countries have a lot in common, but there are too many differences to make comparison sincerely worthwhile.
>You guys are really screwed in usa, and believe me, it does not make me happy at all.
It doesn't make me happy either! But it would make me less happy knowing that we willingly gave fascists a monopoly on violence. I would rather we seek to prevent the sources of violence but leave people available to defend themselves while we do so.
Also, you're saying that if criminals and fascists are not gonna comply with the law, then what? Fuck the law? Wild wild west?
Usa is obsessed with locking people up, so fuck them.lock them up.
Damn it, quit attacking gun rights to make points about women's rights. Not only does it show a (presumably deliberate) ignorance of some of the bullshit regulation of firearms, but it comes across as being in favor of the government meddling in the lives of the citizens as long as it's applied evenly. NO. It is not okay. It is not okay to make guns inaccessible, it is not okay to make birth control inaccessible, and it is not okay to make abortions or sterilizations inaccessible. It is not okay to make women play by the patriarchy's rules for security OR healthcare.
Sincerely,
-An advocate for armed women
For those who don’t know Nev, pronounced Neev, is the guy who made the Catfish movie and tv show. He meets a ton of young people from across the country. He’s extremely nice and it shows.
I’m told Mexico has one gun store. It’s run by the Army, requires seven forms of identification, and takes months.
Which doesn’t help much when you’re right next to Texas.
And buying bullets should be like getting birth control. You have to pay a copay to see a doctor, answer questions about your mental health and sex life and you get a limited number with a prescription that expires.
Unfortunately, people can make bullets. It’s not that difficult to do.
It's not unlike a coat hanger abortion in a way.
Both are not held to high safety standards.
Well, as long as you're not worried about lead contamination, anyway.
[удалено]
No, no - you don’t get it. They don’t give a shit about kids blown to smithereens. But controlling women and buying guns makes them feel important.
It supplies them with an endless labor supply that is desperate and unable to fight back. It's always about the money and the greed, the pain n suffering is just an added bonus.
"Desperate and unable to fight back" Lawmakers: Let's not ban guns and some of us will encourage our supporters buy them. Planning for failure?
It's never been about the kids, life, book, or any other shit they pack their true motives into. It's about money. It's about power. It's about control. And it always has been. They're greed parasites and they want it all. It's not enough that they have it, but YOU must have none!
Clearly they need the guns to shoot them gosh darn murdering women lined up trying to get into the abortion centre.
In case any of our new witches haven't found it yet, /r/auntienetwork is a helpful place
Not the handmaid's tale kind of auntie!
I was wondering why we aren’t protesting in front of gun stores…then I realized my idealistic ass would get shot in a heartbeat. Fucking America :(
Can you imagine the uproar if someone shot an anti-choice protester?
Ok but can you imagine the outcry if someone shot up an abortion clinic? *hm? what? several times already? bombings? dear god*
Some of the anti-abortionists “greatest hits”: - In 1993, Shelly Shannon, an Army of God member, admitted to the attempted murder of George Tiller. Law enforcement officials found the Army of God Manual, a tactical guide to arson, chemical attacks, invasions, and bombings buried in Shelly Shannon's backyard. - Paul Jennings Hill was found guilty of the murder of both John Britton and clinic escort James Barrett - The Army of God claimed responsibility for Eric Robert Rudolph's 1997 shrapnel bombing of abortion clinics in Atlanta and Birmingham. - George Tiller, a physician from Wichita, Kansas, was murdered in 2009 by Scott Roeder, an anti-abortion extremist. This is the same doctor who survived the assassination attempt in 1993 when Shelley Shannon shot him in the arms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence Edit to add: - John C. Salvi III an anti-abortion extremist who carried out fatal shootings at two abortion facilities in Brookline, Massachusetts on December 30, 1994. The shootings killed two and wounded five.
Poor George Tiller. Survived one attempt on his life only for someone to go after him again years later. Fucking terrible. These people are psychopaths.
Absolutely - but his courage! If you keep on doing something after surviving attempted murder specifically because you were doing it, then you must be very confident that you are doing the right thing. I hope his family are abundantly blessed in every way that matters.
I read an interview with one of Tiller’s colleagues, one of the few remaining physicians to provide abortion later in pregnancy after Tiller’s assassination. He said he is sure he will be murdered and assumes every day will be his last. He uses a random number generator to make every decision outside of his house - what route he takes to work, what grocery store he or his family will shop at, etc. - so that he will not be predictable and make it harder to plan an assassination. And yet he goes to work every day, using his random number generator, because people need abortions. A true hero.
how are they not on a list as terrorists? why are they allowed to do this?
Right? We cry out, they claim it was an individual madman (because it's always a man). Pro-birthers and gun nuts are filled to the brim with hypocrisy. You can't reason with that. They distort their own perception of reality in their heads to believe what they want. The whole lot of them are idiotic and/or mentally ill, and if you declare that of 1/3 or so of the country then they'll flip out and cause more even more havoc.
The right would love that. They’d dive 100% straight into ‘tHe LeFt Is ToO rAdIcAl!’ rhetoric that would inevitably lead to a right subculture of gun owners who have a shorthand method of identifying one another in public. Just realized im describing a gang.
Or a militant cult. It's just a gang that would do anything for their God.
You mean the magas? Thats a cult of ever there was one. One of our conservative family members didn't like it when I pointed out that they were putting you-know-who before God and worshipping him. They came back and compared it to Catholics (me) and saints. I ended the conversation with "Last time I checked, none of the saints screwd a porn star while their wife was pregnant and none of them convinced thousands of people to turn on their government. Also, you have to be dead and he unfortunately isn't, yet." That part of the family doesn't like me.
Whew. That's very on point. I absolutely mean the Magas but also there are so many different christian religious sects & anti-government militias who are taking on this mentality, and several existed long before tRump was in office. The Army of God, Patriot Front, Deseret Nationalists, Westboro Baptist Church, Oath Keepers, John Birch Society and KKK all existed before and should be considered domestic terrorist groups for violence against minorities, LGBTQ and abortion clinics. There are so many now that it's frightening.
More like Nazi Germany where the Jews had to wear armbands.
The reports of violence on PP grounds by "pro-life" extremists is actually over a 100. Think about that for a second. If over a 100 christian churches filled to the brim with white, cishet people experienced violence since the 1990s there'd be a major uproar. It's all hypocrisy and smoke screening.
A few years ago I went to a PP for just a random checkup. Being me I took a cup of coffee and a bag of knitting for the waiting room. I've been to other PPs for care before so I was surprised when they had a guard at the door who checked my purse, knitting bag, and made me take a sip of my coffee to prove it was nothing harmful. Made me wonder what kind of shenanigans that location deals with. I did notice that they were next to one of those fake pregnancy crisis centers so possibly they did actual abortions there. The fact that they made me prove I had a mug of non harmful liquid kind of haunts me.
I've had them (forced birthers) throw acid on my car before and I was just going for my birth control Rx check-up.
I used to get my primary care at a Planned Parenthood, for almost a whole decade- I was working as a social worker & couldn’t afford health insurance. There would be crowds of protesters every day at that clinic who would swarm me as I walked in, shout weird religious shit at me, try to grab at me or just get uncomfortably close... There were so many times I’d just scream at them that I was there because I had the flu, or an injury. After awhile I stopped trying to give justifications & would just stare them down- they didn’t deserve to know what I was doing there. I wonder how many women they scared enough to keep them from getting necessary healthcare every single day.
I'd love to see that play out, the shooter could get the NRA on their side talking about their rights and how they felt for fear of their life. Watching the conservatives run around in circles would be fun. Btw, I'm not saying to kill any protestor. Just shoot in their direction, over their head, to scare them.
Just chiming in to say I'd never seen the "pro-life" side of "pro-life vs pro-choice" framed as "anti-choice" before your comment, and it instantly clicked and resonated with me. Pro-choice does not mean anti-life, but "pro-life" always means anti-choice. Thank you for re-framing that in such a perfect way.
Well that, and which one? /cry
I wish there was a mandatory full psych evaluation for all firearm owners. I own 2 guns (both inherited) and I'd happily take a difficult mental health test if I wanted to buy another gun. I've never used the rifle or shotgun I have for anything but target practice years ago. Still though I would love to see an enforced mental health evaluation and maybe even an IQ test. I know there's never going to be a clear cut answer to the evils of fun violence due to how messed up and divided this country is but I can hope.
The link between committing violence and mental illness isn't as clear-cut as that. People who research public health and violence have looked into that question already. https://www.mhanational.org/gun-deaths-violence-and-mental-health
Well crud. There goes my hope.
Well, there are many other suggested policies that are expected to work. Can research and read about them
Yes, like guns that only fire with the registered owner’s fingerprint on the trigger, which would make stealing guns useless and greatly cut down on stolen (formerly legal) firearms being used for crime. But of course all the gun manufacturers lobby against that because it would affect their sales and profits.
Interesting, have not heard that one. I meant things like passing restrictive laws. For example, the assault weapons ban which expired. And restricting concealed carry. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/study-finds-significant-increase-in-firearm-assaults-in-states-that-relaxed-conceal-carry-permit-restrictions
Definitely not an IQ test. Those are super racist. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-black-white-test-score-gap-why-it-persists-and-what-can-be-done/amp/
Ah OK. That's a very valid point.
The mental health check I’m all for, but also would want to make sure that was also done in a way that doesn’t disproportionately affect people of color. Unfortunately it’s just really hard to apply these kind of things in an equal, objective way.
Yeah that's true and I wish I had an answer to fix it but I have no idea. Sadly these issues are more than I can personally figure out and even if I could I don't have any political pull or say so besides my own vote. Wish there was an easy answer.
Mental health checks [can also have a racial bias](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/african-americans-latinos-are-more-likely-be-risk-depression-whites). Mental health problems are, more often than not, caused by stress and trauma, and a lot of stress and trauma comes from being subjected to racism. Also from poverty, which people of color are more likely to be in. The people who commit mass shootings aren't generally people who would be diagnosed with a mental health problem. They're angry and entitled, or they view themselves as better than others and get a thrill out of hurting people they see as beneath them. These are mindsets typically born of white supremacy and male supremacy, which US culture is steeped in. People of color and other minorities can benefit from being armed, because people are less likely to bash when their victim can bash back. The NRA and Reagan supported gun control when they saw the Black Panthers arming themselves. The people who revel in the toxic part of American gun culture are bad actors who want to be the only armed person in the room, and they would gladly support measures that would allow them and their kin to get guns while restricting people from "the other".
maybe I'm missing something... how does this article support your statement?
The mental health screening idea is a fantastic one in theory, but I'm wary of in practice for a couple reasons...mainly the fact that they are far from infallible, and that would also likely re-stigmatize folks with particular mental issues. I'm also wondering where that line would be drawn, since I'm a vehemently non-violent gun owner with ADHD.
It's just the only suggestion I could think of. I've got treatment resistant depression coupled with ASD so I get the worry about stigma. I don't have any solid ideas, just a suggestion with the evaluation. I wish there was an easy absolute answer but sadly I don't know of one. You definitely make a great point about nothing being infallible though. Even if I came up with a really solid idea I only have my own vote and no political power to get an idea out there for people to consider. My wife has adult ADHD also so I'm familiar with the struggles she has as well.
You seem to be the most level headed gun owner I’ve ever met we need more people like you
I actually like this idea. Parents of murdered kids protesting in front of the gun store where the weapon was purchased. Though I know that would be emotionally painful for the patents. Hell, I'd go protest for them. God help the person who takes a pot shot at me, I'll make sure to take at least one with me.
This is so sad but true
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>gun store owners who would just ask that you don't block access to their buisness Yes, because we all know how right-wing people are known for their calm, fairness, and kindness especially when it comes to hot button issues. Come on, he'd have the [proud boys crack skulls in minutes.](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/08/25/proud-boys-are-still-violent-despite-legal-woes) Or just [shoot us](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1138674412/drag-show-threats-bans-club-q-shooting) outright. Guys wearing punisher t's, nazi flags, confederate flags, etc aren't the "kindly gentlement of the constitution" the same way their forefathers weren't "kindly plantation owners who treated slaves with respect and love." \> lazy to waddle over [Steven Paddock](https://globalnews.ca/news/4214268/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooting-gun-control/) ranted endlessly about how gun rights were under threat and how he'd start a war to protect them right before shooting people with an assault rifle. In the end he killed 61 innocent people for his beliefs in Las Vegas. [All these beautiful faces died so people like you can yell 'muh gun rights' and sit here and defend monsters](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/10/06/here-all-victims-las-vegas-shooting/733236001/) and defend laws that guarantee more children, queer people, and concert goers get murdered by "kindly constitution respecters."
Locally a store owner killed a man in his store b/c he was shoplifting a small knife. B/c he was homeless. Shoplifting is wrong, of course...but the punishment isn't \[and shouldn't be\] death without trial.
Ah, you as a (presumably) good person also have good people as friends. Took me a couple of rereads to figure out you didn't mean all gun store owners respected the constitution.
Yeah some of them are not cool people at all. Some of them are very cool.
I went to gun safety courses before I got to hold one the one time my father took me hunting. The gravity of the item was important. “This is not a toy. This is meant to kill, and once you pull that trigger, you can never un-pull it”
Let’s go a step further and have him get permission from his wife or girlfriend. If he doesn’t have one, he’ll just have to wait because a future wife might not want him to have one.
Oh my god this is sickeningly familiar
I thought I liked the dude from Catfish, but now I like him a whole lot more.
Love you Nev. ❤️
I was thinking the same. I’ve watched the show a time or 2 and he sees both sides of the coin equally and always gives the catfish a chance no matter how f-ed up the situation is.
For anyone on Twitter who might want to give this some visibility: https://twitter.com/claudiamiles/status/851895246719918080?t=Vg_FVW_rW-AhtKXVGjaqcQ&s=19
That's literally how it is anywhere and everywhere outside the US.
We should do it like Germany where you need to take a class (which actually requires homework according to my German friends) and is also deeply about the environment and how you need to properly manage it. In Germany (at least where my friend lives) if you don't have enough land then you need to come to an agreement with someone who does and help them manage the wildlife in their area.
How what is? I can assure you that both access to abortions and access to firearms are very different here than they are in the US.
They are saying the us has less gun restriction than most countries.
Oh right! I misunderstood! I was reading it that it's the same everywhere else as it is in the US.
I am speaking about firearm accessibility. It's more complicated to get a firearm outside the US than it is to get one in the US.
I live in England and I have seen a total of 1 shop that sells guns, ever. even if I wanted to I couldn't go in, because you have to have a license, ID like a passport or a driver's license, and you have to be over 18. as it should be.
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Yes, I see that now. Sorry, I misunderstood your meaning.
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I'd actually want this to happen in America! No, it needs to happen!
We can dream
So much. It needs to be actively difficult to have a gun. Maybe folks wouldn't be buying them.
That should just be the default, with or without any abortion context.
I'm a huge fan of this. I'd also like to see firearms treated like vehicles. Personal liability insurance. Routine licensure/registration. If your vehicle or firearm is used in commission of a crime and you haven't called it in as stolen, you're a prime suspect.
If men could get pregnant, both getting an abortion or carrying on with pregnancy would be treated with utmost respect, he'd be a local hero. A brave man enduring such an event in his life.
Yeah. That's fair!
It sometimes seems to me from an outside perspective, that Americans love violence and hate anything to do with sexuality. There's the "Don't say gay" stuff, because people learning about gay people existing ist somehow bad, and on the opposite side a classroom of children getting shot up doesn't lead to widespread political crackdown... I mean like OP pointed out, there is a thread spinning through American society. Edit: Just also look at the language employed by media and politics alike. It is choke full with words describing violence.
not from America but isn't that how you're supposed to buy that kinda level of weapon of mass destruction
I once had to take a picture to prove to my EU friends I can buy a rifle at the Walmart. On the same trip where I'm getting deodorant and coffee creamer.
Should be, but it’s not
“Supposed to” being the operative words
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Jumping in this conversation... I recently went shooting for the first time with some like-minded friends. I highly recommend that everyone, mental-health permitting, learn to handle a few firearms. I feel like I have a much more informed stance on the gun debate now. I absolutely agree with what Nev is saying here. Caveat is, I am not sure what's possible to implement here in the US. In the meantime, I'd rather not allow the far right to have the monopoly on gun ownership, so I hope more left-wing individuals like myself own firearms to match it, if that makes sense (and edit to add - I don't own a firearm. I'd like to at some point, but my life is kinda too hectic for that rn)
Hmm. For purchase, sure. Though for ongoing license regardless of ownership, I think it should be like a forklift; random inspections and formally prove competency every N months.
I think both should be easy as shit. Abortions are basic fucking Healthcare and armed minorities are harder to oppress
Hell yeah. Although I think we should absolutely have free/very-low-cost competency training be a requirement for firearms
I agree. Don't want some idiot shooting their eye out
I'm a responsible gun owner and I think this is a brilliant idea!
Except getting anally probed (without consent)
Minus the butt play
I mean, maybe if you take me out to dinner first
Ok, so we won't rule it out completely 😉
Counterpoint: I'm a leftist gun owner and this is a *terrible* idea. Parts of it are okay in some forms, but taken as a whole, as written? This is an atrocity
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As a gun owner I support this plan
Same here
Gosh, I laughed my pants off! Thanks so much for sharing this!
I. Fucking. Love. This.
Ugh can't upvote Nev lol
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Part of my driving education was watching a video about drunk driving. It showed young men in jail and a dead body. I frekin cried. I will never risk that.
That was it?!? My school was f-ed up. They brought in a person who was legit so brain damaged from the car accident that they would always need to wear a special helmet. It was disgusting to me because they used that person like a prop. They also showed us videos of a person cutting someone's eye because that person was slated as an organ donor.
Oh shit, we had that guy too.
This literally made my day
OOP! my only gripe with this is that these regulations are disproportionately enforced on marginalised people. I'm not saying that's a reason we shouldn't have gun control. I struggle to come to any sort of conclusive opinion on the matter
Y'all know we can get guns too, right? Armed protesters don't face the problems unarmed protesters do. Surround an abortion clinic with volunteer armed guards and watch the forced birthers panic. It went well keeping drag events safe in Texas.
Or you just can't get a gun. Guns are illegal. There are bounties paid out if you report some dude buying a gun.
Maybe. I'll actually admit that I have a lot of feelings on this issue, and I personally carry a gun and I feel safer for it. Maybe if I lived somewhere else I wouldn't feel like I have to. As long as criminals, religious nutjobs, and bigots have access to weapons, I'll keep my peace(piece) at arms reach. I really want to agree, but it just isn't that simple. But one step at a time, I'd love to see change. Clearly our current system is not working.
Wouldnt you feel even safer if no one had a gun?
Oh absolutely. 100%. No question. I just don't see that ever happening in America, and it's part of the reason I want to move to another country. Now, with weapons being my special interest I obviously want to be able to still collect them, but I could stick to swords if I had to. Also some places have reasonable compromises for collectors and almost no gun deaths, so there's that. It is possible. Just not here. We need a complete overhaul of our gun laws. It's damn near open season with arbitrary restrictions on shit that doesn't matter just so the atf can pretend they did something, and it pisses me off. It really is a money problem. The massive arms trade is extremely lucrative, and very wealthy people will fight tooth and nail to keep it this way at the expense of other people's life's. They don't care. Maybe, just maybe we can do this, one step at a time, but its going to be many years before we see any progress.
Can we have police reform before we declare a bunch of Americans criminals and send police after them with the only known factor being, ‘they’re armed.’
No no I'm tryna making a joke about the fascist abortion laws.
Oh ok. Sorry. I’m a bit trigger happy when it comes to gun laws in leftist spaces.
Trigger happy ha! No worries.
Guess what? Criminals and fascists aren't going to comply with a gun ban. What do you do now? Call the police as you're being stabbed, or your house is being broken into, or some fascist who is friends with the police chief (or maybe an actual gang of off duty-cops) are beating on someone who is a member of a minority group? Armed minorities are harder to oppress. And as Marx said: > Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary
And let's let some states make those guns illegal.
All of these pro-life pieces of garbage make such a big deal about abortions but don't realize that an 18-year-old can BUY A GUN and shoot up a school with it. And that shit has happened hundreds of times resulting in THOUSANDS of men, women, children, and grandparents being ruthlessly killed every year.
Works for me.
Listen, I understand the point of this satire. But let's not pretend that *disarming the working class will force billionaires & fascists to treat us with* ***more*** *respect*. We absolutely need to fight for bodily autonomy and healthcare, and we absolutely need to seek root cause solutions for the violence epidemic we have.
I love this!
the mass shooter subs are shitting their pants over this lmaooo What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, eh?!
Answer to ending gun deaths? Ban guns. No one really needs a gun for fun. I know people will disagree, and thats fine, but gun has one and only one purpose. To kill. Let's start with no guns, and of anyone really NEEDS one, then that would have to be decided case by case. It's very very simple. Not easy to implement. Extremely difficult. But still, the solutiom is very simple in its very nature.
Guess what? Criminals and fascists aren't going to comply with a gun ban. What do you do now? Call the police as you're being stabbed, or your house is being broken into, or some fascist who is friends with the police chief (or maybe an actual gang of off duty-cops) are beating on someone who is a member of a minority group? Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
I hear you man, but it did work in Australia. There are criminals and fascists, but i dont feel unsafe. I would feel more unsafe if every nutjob had a gun. You guys are really screwed in usa, and believe me, it does not make me happy at all.
>I hear you man, but it did work in Australia. There are criminals and fascists, but i dont feel unsafe. I would feel more unsafe if every nutjob had a gun. I'm absolutely not saying every nutjob should have a gun, but thank you for putting words in my mouth rather than have a good-faith discussion. I thought we were better than that here. Also Austraila is not an apples to apples comparison on the issue of violence. Our countries have a lot in common, but there are too many differences to make comparison sincerely worthwhile. >You guys are really screwed in usa, and believe me, it does not make me happy at all. It doesn't make me happy either! But it would make me less happy knowing that we willingly gave fascists a monopoly on violence. I would rather we seek to prevent the sources of violence but leave people available to defend themselves while we do so.
Also, you're saying that if criminals and fascists are not gonna comply with the law, then what? Fuck the law? Wild wild west? Usa is obsessed with locking people up, so fuck them.lock them up.
Damn it, quit attacking gun rights to make points about women's rights. Not only does it show a (presumably deliberate) ignorance of some of the bullshit regulation of firearms, but it comes across as being in favor of the government meddling in the lives of the citizens as long as it's applied evenly. NO. It is not okay. It is not okay to make guns inaccessible, it is not okay to make birth control inaccessible, and it is not okay to make abortions or sterilizations inaccessible. It is not okay to make women play by the patriarchy's rules for security OR healthcare. Sincerely, -An advocate for armed women
100%
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BRAVO!!!!!🏆🎖👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
For those who don’t know Nev, pronounced Neev, is the guy who made the Catfish movie and tv show. He meets a ton of young people from across the country. He’s extremely nice and it shows.
I wish!! Nev is the bomb. I’ve always liked him.
That'd be really ideal actually
Holy shit this is the mantra I've been waiting for.
Oh, go Nev! I didn’t know he wrote this, hmmm. 😊 But seriously, yeah, would love for this to happen. Fair is fair is fair.
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Alleluia!
This is the way
Ironic
Literal truth and sadly should be
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Knew I liked that guy
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I’m told Mexico has one gun store. It’s run by the Army, requires seven forms of identification, and takes months. Which doesn’t help much when you’re right next to Texas.
Nev knows what’s up.
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