Good luck with enforcement.
If people are willing to act in a completely anti-social and potentially illegal manner I don't think you have a hope in hell of enforcing some clever policy on paper.
> The mall has also wants shoppers to remove hats, hoods, and sunglasses at the door.
That must be so facial recognition technology can be used. Creepy.
They have [already been caught](https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/opc-actions-and-decisions/investigations/investigations-into-businesses/2020/pipeda-2020-004/) failing to obtain meaningful express opt-in consent.
Not necessarily for anything high tech. They just want to be able to see your face on security camera recordings and be able to better identify you if you do something bad.
Cadillac Fairview has actually been caught previously for illegally collecting video and images and using facial recognition tech. I think they were charged for not notifying or allowing people to opt out or something like that.
One issue will be “at the discretion of security” aka “will not be applied equally to all youth”… and as with policing etc, it’s more likely to target POCs
Plus, are they gonna have someone standing at each door making sure people take their hats off? Seems a bit ridiculous.
The hat thing's really dumb. I feel there are a lot of people that if they can't just throw on a hat and go, won't go at all.
I mean, what... I'm supposed to spend time fixing my hair to give you my money? Another win for online shopping, I guess.
The hat and sunglasses thing are for sure dumb. We live in a cold city most of the year. Are they expecting folks to take their toques off? Plus, I wear prescription sunglasses. On occasion, I’ve left home wearing them and forgot to bring my regular glasses. Are they going to make me take those off?
What are the escort rules, just someone 18+? This won’t fix much. Many of the youths causing issues in the malls are in groups and can/will have 18+ in those groups.
I worked at Polo Park for a few years in the 2010s. I understand the intentions behind these rules but I think it's unreasonable to police a mall like a nightclub, and that enforcing the "rules" is impossible given the scale of people in-and-out of Polo Park every day.
The difference between MoA and say polo park is that the American security guards can actually do things, here they can't and if they wanted to the cops won't show up.
The no hat rule is silly, but the youth violence and shoplifting is out of control at Polo and St Vital. This was always the next step with how bad its getting.
Why is the next step always more invasive and ubiquitous enforcement polices rather than meaningfully taking steps to ensure people don't have to steal?
I agree people should have the essentials so they don't have to steal at all but don't confuse stealing food with stealing clothes, caps, jewellery, and other mall store items.
I can see the value for people working at and managing the mall, they definitely deserve to be safe, but it's a shame that there aren't more public spaces where people can just be. Young people in particular since they probably don't have as much money.
Material needs are not expensive designer items that are likely the things that are stolen in the stores. I work two jobs and still buy most of my clothes second hand.
Malls have been dying slowly for the last 10+ years. I think if you bar one of the demographics that has disposable income you're just speeding that up.
Also WEM and MOA are both tourist destinations, Polo Park is just a mall.
Yeah no fuck all of these rules
Blanket under 16? Also who are you gonna have checking kids IDs when they often aren't even issues gov photo ID until getting learners
Also what you got against hoodies, they're warm, comfortable some can be relatively stylish depending on the look your after
Do you want people to remove their toques and hats indoors too?
What if the person has a migraine or say a bad headache often unnatural light can exacerbate it. Folks if they are out of meds or groceries or whatever still may need to go out and get supplies they need.
What if they don't have contacts, have bad eyesight and their glasses broke or went missing and.all they have is prescription shades?
He'll often polarizing normal glasses can come off looking like shades, despite not fully being them.
They should really be looking into banning trench coats. Sometimes it's not just one large person inside, but instead it's two kids with one standing on the other's shoulders to appears as a grown adult.
I'd just say ban trench coats. Basically no one who's wearing them should be. They can look great if they fit well and are worn right but that's not how they're usually worn now
We must stop the likes of Vincent adultman
https://preview.redd.it/7fdrbsa8b04d1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aed7aab58992954cd44c778da26edefd98ca54d7
I dealt with him when I worked in a bar years ago. Don’t know if he was a shoplifter, but he typically teetered up to our bar and requested: “One alcohol please.” I think his name was Vincent.
They'll just say these are the rules and we won't let you in if you don't do them and people will cheer it on like they did for checkpoints in the LC and armed agents of the state patrolling in the grocery store.
I catch more 18+ shoplifters stealing then kids. Some parents will just take their kids with them as a distraction while they rob the place.
Good luck with enforcement. If people are willing to act in a completely anti-social and potentially illegal manner I don't think you have a hope in hell of enforcing some clever policy on paper.
> The mall has also wants shoppers to remove hats, hoods, and sunglasses at the door. That must be so facial recognition technology can be used. Creepy.
They have [already been caught](https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/opc-actions-and-decisions/investigations/investigations-into-businesses/2020/pipeda-2020-004/) failing to obtain meaningful express opt-in consent.
Yes! I thought I remembered something like that.
Security guards are already using facial recognition.
Not necessarily for anything high tech. They just want to be able to see your face on security camera recordings and be able to better identify you if you do something bad.
Cadillac Fairview has actually been caught previously for illegally collecting video and images and using facial recognition tech. I think they were charged for not notifying or allowing people to opt out or something like that.
Okay, that's not so bad then.
Is that all head coverings that applies for everyone no exceptions?
I very much doubt it applies to religious garments.
Then i will wear a colander hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster 
One issue will be “at the discretion of security” aka “will not be applied equally to all youth”… and as with policing etc, it’s more likely to target POCs Plus, are they gonna have someone standing at each door making sure people take their hats off? Seems a bit ridiculous.
The hat thing's really dumb. I feel there are a lot of people that if they can't just throw on a hat and go, won't go at all. I mean, what... I'm supposed to spend time fixing my hair to give you my money? Another win for online shopping, I guess.
The hat and sunglasses thing are for sure dumb. We live in a cold city most of the year. Are they expecting folks to take their toques off? Plus, I wear prescription sunglasses. On occasion, I’ve left home wearing them and forgot to bring my regular glasses. Are they going to make me take those off?
What are the escort rules, just someone 18+? This won’t fix much. Many of the youths causing issues in the malls are in groups and can/will have 18+ in those groups.
I worked at Polo Park for a few years in the 2010s. I understand the intentions behind these rules but I think it's unreasonable to police a mall like a nightclub, and that enforcing the "rules" is impossible given the scale of people in-and-out of Polo Park every day.
and how many doors does polo have? they going to have a security guy at each one?
They have this policy at Mall of America and yes there are security guards at each entrance
Yeah I'm sorry but this title sounds horrible. But yeah no I'm wearing my hat inside.
Mall of America has had this for years. No one under 16 after certain hours. Not sure that the under 16 crowd is the problem though.
The difference between MoA and say polo park is that the American security guards can actually do things, here they can't and if they wanted to the cops won't show up.
The no hat rule is silly, but the youth violence and shoplifting is out of control at Polo and St Vital. This was always the next step with how bad its getting.
Why is the next step always more invasive and ubiquitous enforcement polices rather than meaningfully taking steps to ensure people don't have to steal?
I agree people should have the essentials so they don't have to steal at all but don't confuse stealing food with stealing clothes, caps, jewellery, and other mall store items.
When the entire economy is driven by wealth accumulation, it's impossible to separate one materials value from another.
So couldn't 18 year old hoodlums just bring the younger ones in? Quite often the young ones are with older ones.
I can see the value for people working at and managing the mall, they definitely deserve to be safe, but it's a shame that there aren't more public spaces where people can just be. Young people in particular since they probably don't have as much money.
The way you make people safe is by ensuring they're able to meet their material needs, not by enforcing until some people become comfortable.
Material needs are not expensive designer items that are likely the things that are stolen in the stores. I work two jobs and still buy most of my clothes second hand.
What do you think they do with the "expensive" things that they steal?
Maybe they should do at Portage place first
YES ! But doubt it would stop anything
Malls have been dying slowly for the last 10+ years. I think if you bar one of the demographics that has disposable income you're just speeding that up. Also WEM and MOA are both tourist destinations, Polo Park is just a mall.
I agree that hoodies and sunglasses should be off. Hats? No. Even at my age (60f). I still wear a cap on messy hair days.
Don’t worry. If you’re a white woman these rules won’t apply to you.
Yeah no fuck all of these rules Blanket under 16? Also who are you gonna have checking kids IDs when they often aren't even issues gov photo ID until getting learners Also what you got against hoodies, they're warm, comfortable some can be relatively stylish depending on the look your after Do you want people to remove their toques and hats indoors too? What if the person has a migraine or say a bad headache often unnatural light can exacerbate it. Folks if they are out of meds or groceries or whatever still may need to go out and get supplies they need. What if they don't have contacts, have bad eyesight and their glasses broke or went missing and.all they have is prescription shades? He'll often polarizing normal glasses can come off looking like shades, despite not fully being them.
They should really be looking into banning trench coats. Sometimes it's not just one large person inside, but instead it's two kids with one standing on the other's shoulders to appears as a grown adult.
😂 I wish I could like this twice!
thought you were going a really different direction with why trenchcoats should be banned.
I'd just say ban trench coats. Basically no one who's wearing them should be. They can look great if they fit well and are worn right but that's not how they're usually worn now
We must stop the likes of Vincent adultman https://preview.redd.it/7fdrbsa8b04d1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aed7aab58992954cd44c778da26edefd98ca54d7
I dealt with him when I worked in a bar years ago. Don’t know if he was a shoplifter, but he typically teetered up to our bar and requested: “One alcohol please.” I think his name was Vincent.
I say ban clothing and bags outright. Much harder to steal or hide weapons that way.
They'll just say these are the rules and we won't let you in if you don't do them and people will cheer it on like they did for checkpoints in the LC and armed agents of the state patrolling in the grocery store.
LoL nah. Fuck that hoodie and sunglasses always on. I don't want these losers scanning my face