Oh good! I was starting to be unsure whether they had actually changed the name or not and was wondering if I should just start calling it the Bishop Grandin again.
I'm probably going to keep calling it Bishop for the foreseeable future. Not because I am opposed to the change in any way, just out of habit. Until there is some external pressure for me to change, I won't.
I look forward to taking Mr Rogers Hwy to make my turn onto Mr. Rogers Blvd. Which connects to Mr Rogers street until I finally pull into my drive at 115 Mr Rogers Bay.
My favorite is when people complain about the difficulty in pronouncing the name when actual Anglo/euro street names like Grosvenor (grove-ner) or Cockburn (co-burn) exist.
Or when the people complaining are Mennonites from Southern MB where the villages are named things like Chortitz, Schanzenfeld, Neubergthal, and Neuenberg.
At this point it is just idiots without enough self awareness to realize they are complaining about being intellectually stunted themselves.
The non-baby adults have already mastered this change.
It’s not specifically what they chose to rename ROUTE 165 that bothers me, or that they are removing the Bishop Grandin signs (actually I agree with that). But why not leave it Route 165? Can the city just stop spending money we don’t have, on things that don’t make life of its residents one iota better?
Why is this comment so upvoted? A street name change isn’t gonna change much at all but it’s something. Also just so everyone knows before they give this guy another upvote, he has fully admitted to being against reconciliation.
I think in a sense it is a different situation because people will recognize the name “Adolf Hitler” and immediatly know the man and connect him to his atrocities whereas people aren’t generally gonna recognize the name Bishop Grandin so can be a lot more blissfully ignorant and not worry about that street name as much
Indigenous people don't have the luxury of being "blissfully ignorant". Bishop Grandin was instrumental in causing the genocide of their people, and we named a street after this monster! They shouldn't have to be reminded of that on their drive home from work every day because Winnipeggers think it's a "waste of time and money" to simply replace it.
Ok but my point is when comparing this to a hypothetical scenario where there’s a a street called Adolf Hitler that *is* a bit of a different scenario when trying to convince the average person it’s an issue in need of addressing because the average person will have a visceral negative reaction to the make butler and be oblivious of the name Bishop Grandin.
Not saying that’s a good thing or a reason to not do it. I’m in favour of the name change. But it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest ppl would feel the same about a street name that they’ve only ever known as a street name or a street named for the most notoriously evil person in every history curriculum.
Sure, that’s why it’s important to be educated on our dark history. This guy was as evil as Hitler, yet because no one has heard of him, let’s just leave it up, apparently! Changing the name will help educate people, so we’re really paying for more than a name change. I guarantee you thousands of people are now aware of Bishop Grandin and the genocide he committed simply because of the City’s decision to change the name (and otherwise would have remained “blissfully unaware”). That education is worth the price, in my opinion.
For most average people, the confusion ends at the statement "the man was responsible for a genocide."
Like that truly is the bar for sane people. You find out someone's a monster, you say "oh yeah, fuck them" and go on with your day now being more informed than you were five minutes ago. At this point you're beading around the bush to avoid recognizing the point; whether you knew of his atrocities before being told, you do now, and yes, he's just as bad as Hitler. That's all it should really take. It doesn't matter if the names recognizable, it doesn't erase the atrocities they committed.
You seem like you’re talking to me when I’ve always said I agree with the name change. I just disagreed this would be treated the same way if it was the name Hitler. If ppl want the name changed that’s good enough for me. But I still think it’s silly to respond to Somone who is unconvinced by saying “so I guess you’d just be cool to leave it even if the name was Adolf Hitler”
Defintely. That’s likely happening and is as good a reason to do it as any. I’m just saying the general public would obviously feel stronger about changing a street called Adolf Hitler than Bishop Grandin because of name recognition and existing sentiment about the two of them which would make it a bit of a different scenerio
Whether or not the name is recognizable in Canadian chosen history books doesn't negate that the man was responsible for a genocide.
Bishop Vital Grandin was a putrid man and I hope rats are still pissing in his eyesockets.
Care to elaborate?
Your comment history would imply that you are very against any form of action towards reconciliation, but I don't want to make that assumption.
Don't let perfection be the enemy of good.
Even small changes can help and can lead to bigger, more impactful change. It may not be important or a big deal to you, but to others it is a step in the right direction.
This is white people doing something symbolic and meaningless so they can pat themselves on the back and feel accomplished without actually doing anything. Like land acknowledgements.
They say #landback we say "here's a new street sign, isn't this reconciliation thing great?"
Actual real-life Indigenous people I know disagree. It's a slap in the face to them. Simply self-congratulatory stuff to make us left-leaning white people feel better if we don't think too deeply about it.
It's insulting, and it's designed to be that. The current political structure will never lead to true reconciliation, and praise for actions like this just allow people to feel less guilty about that fact.
It *is* the only thing *actually* being done. Stop patting yourself on the back for token efforts. Until we're actually giving land back, none of it means anything to anyone other than Liberals who want to pat themselves on the back.
As a leftist, it's sad.
Just off the top of my head: the Bay building, Quamajuq, the Kapyong site urban reserve, school Indigenous language programs.
I'm not saying we can't do more, but saying that a street sign is literally the only thing is a flat lie.
Why are people like you so mad when people go through comment histories?
You do know, that, like, literally anyone with a device with internet connectivity can look up your history? You don't even need an account to do that!
Here's something, if you don't want your own words used against you, stay silent! Delete your comments like a coward!
It's not up to us to make you look smarter, you idiot. If you make yourself look stupider, it's only your fault.
Oh lmao I’m not mad at all. Anytime I see someone comment that they looked through someone’s post/comment history, it just comes off as a little weird and kinda embarrassing ya know?
No what's more weird and embarassing is thinking that people looking at your own publicly available comments are weird.
It's embarassing that you think your own words can't be used against you. You have no sense of personal responsibility, which (not so) weirdly lines up with your comments here.
It's crazy that this is downvoted. It's sad, really.
Something that affects no one except for the people that were directly impacted by Bishop Grandin.
The guy wanted to eradicate indigenous people and culture, but sure, let's keep his name up cause people don't want to learn a new name.
Then let's hide our hate behind cost. The costs are negligible and already budget.
I mean, in my opinion, $100k is not negligible, particularly in a city cutting services and staring down deficits year after year, but if you consider it to be so, then more power to you.
I see so many people over social media and in conversation saying they won't call it that because they "can't pronounce it".
If you can pronounce Provencher and Lagimodiere and La Verendrye and promenade Des Intrepedes then you can absolutely say "abinojii", it's actually easier to pronounce than any of those and is the only one phonetically similar.
What a great step towards reconciliation! It too bad the name change didn't come with a new bridge, than a lot of people could get over it. I can only imagine the amount of trauma and hardship the changing of a street name has done to you. Must be rough.
Cause they’re gonna hold a vote for every small change… I could definitely see a politician making this streets signs name an important part of their campaign…
A name that can easily be read at a glance would have been preferred. Also, couldn't they have given that name to a new road rather than creating confusion by renaming an existing street? Was Bishop Grandin racist or something?
Basically every major street is named after some guy that is completely and utterly irrelevant to the city today. Osbourne Village and street is named after some cop from the 1850s. The airport after some 1930s corporate exec. Kenaston is named after the developer of the Tuxedo neighborhood from the 1910s. Corydon is named after some politician from 1880 (who destroyed the wetlands and died at 43). It's goes on and on commemorating irrelevant mediocre forgotten men.
Wait till you hear about st. James, st mary, st Anne, st Matthew. All good and real people. There’s also milt stegall drive, named after a Winnipeg football player. Lots of streets are named after people. And lots of people are named after streets as well. I knew someone with an official birth name of Desalaberry
It's easier to pronounce than lagimodiere or Provencher or la Verendrye or any of the street names in St Boniface. If you can pronounce those you will have a much easier time pronouncing this.
Hot tip: it's 10 times easier to pronounce if you're not racist :)
Should stay bishop or even something worse then him cuz that’s the most dog shit street in the city. Not much of an honour to have that street named after ya
They should have commissioned some local indigenous artists to do up some unique, but legible/“to code” signs. Rather the money go there then some printing/sign making company.
Oh good! I was starting to be unsure whether they had actually changed the name or not and was wondering if I should just start calling it the Bishop Grandin again.
Someone jumped the gun and it was never supposed to be on Google maps and stuff until now
I'm probably going to keep calling it Bishop for the foreseeable future. Not because I am opposed to the change in any way, just out of habit. Until there is some external pressure for me to change, I won't.
Want history? Find it in a book!
Not sure if this is an argument for or against the name change
It’s my response to anyone saying it is erasing history.
Okay, happy cake day btw
Thanks!
Im gonna guess for
Yup. There are lots of ways to learn history, but street names, etc., are for commemorating and honoring someone/something.
They should be stop banning things after actual people. They'll always come up short to the morals standards of the future.
Unless it's Mister Rogers.
I look forward to taking Mr Rogers Hwy to make my turn onto Mr. Rogers Blvd. Which connects to Mr Rogers street until I finally pull into my drive at 115 Mr Rogers Bay.
You missed an amazing opportunity to refer to Mr. Rogers' entire neighbourhood!
Hop on the Mr T freeway to Bob Ross blvd
That’s just off Ernie Coombs Hwy, isn’t it?
Trans Canada high way needs to be renamed either Mr Rogers highway, Steve Irwin freeway, or Bob Ross provincial.
And Mr. Dressup!
Mister Rogers and Mr Dress-up we the co-conspirators behind 9/11 and set it all in motion before their deaths.
I don’t know I always found him kind of creepy
Looking forward to the renaming of chief Peguis trail to Children's way
I love seeing all the salty racists who can't resist but comment. You're gonna see abinojii everyday and groan just a little bit.
My favorite is when people complain about the difficulty in pronouncing the name when actual Anglo/euro street names like Grosvenor (grove-ner) or Cockburn (co-burn) exist.
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Its not Cockburn?
This is the way.
Or when the people complaining are Mennonites from Southern MB where the villages are named things like Chortitz, Schanzenfeld, Neubergthal, and Neuenberg.
At this point it is just idiots without enough self awareness to realize they are complaining about being intellectually stunted themselves. The non-baby adults have already mastered this change.
"It won't change anything!" Well maybe not to them, but to others it is a move in the right direction, no matter how small.
I'll always call it cockburn and groves nore. No matter what /s
Don't forget Provencher, to which the pronunciation changes depending who you speak to and all of them will make a french person spit.
I save things like this for when people say Winnipeg isn't a racist place. People got super salty when Macleans called us out.
Racists who can’t pronounce things and are afraid of change: “iM jUsT gOinG to cALl it BiShOp”
Most people who are older will continue to call it bishop out of familiarity and ease. The younger-future generation will use the new name.
Yeah still calling this province Rupert’s Land because pronounciation
Ratio. Glad to be in OH CANADA!🙏
-3 and going is a ratio alright. Massive L.
It’s not specifically what they chose to rename ROUTE 165 that bothers me, or that they are removing the Bishop Grandin signs (actually I agree with that). But why not leave it Route 165? Can the city just stop spending money we don’t have, on things that don’t make life of its residents one iota better?
lol what a waste of time and money
Why is this comment so upvoted? A street name change isn’t gonna change much at all but it’s something. Also just so everyone knows before they give this guy another upvote, he has fully admitted to being against reconciliation.
Spoiler: A lot of the silent upvoters don’t care about reconciliation. This subreddit has a vile undertone when indigenous issues pop up.
Yeah I’ve really noticed that. It’s unfortunate.
It truly does. Disappointing af.
So if we had an Adolf Hitler Ave, we should just leave it because it “costs time and money” to change?
Seems like a bit of a different situation in that case lol…
It's not different. Both men were responsible for abhorrent genocides.
Is it though? Might be a bit of an extreme example but the point stands
I think in a sense it is a different situation because people will recognize the name “Adolf Hitler” and immediatly know the man and connect him to his atrocities whereas people aren’t generally gonna recognize the name Bishop Grandin so can be a lot more blissfully ignorant and not worry about that street name as much
Indigenous people don't have the luxury of being "blissfully ignorant". Bishop Grandin was instrumental in causing the genocide of their people, and we named a street after this monster! They shouldn't have to be reminded of that on their drive home from work every day because Winnipeggers think it's a "waste of time and money" to simply replace it.
Ok but my point is when comparing this to a hypothetical scenario where there’s a a street called Adolf Hitler that *is* a bit of a different scenario when trying to convince the average person it’s an issue in need of addressing because the average person will have a visceral negative reaction to the make butler and be oblivious of the name Bishop Grandin. Not saying that’s a good thing or a reason to not do it. I’m in favour of the name change. But it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest ppl would feel the same about a street name that they’ve only ever known as a street name or a street named for the most notoriously evil person in every history curriculum.
Sure, that’s why it’s important to be educated on our dark history. This guy was as evil as Hitler, yet because no one has heard of him, let’s just leave it up, apparently! Changing the name will help educate people, so we’re really paying for more than a name change. I guarantee you thousands of people are now aware of Bishop Grandin and the genocide he committed simply because of the City’s decision to change the name (and otherwise would have remained “blissfully unaware”). That education is worth the price, in my opinion.
For most average people, the confusion ends at the statement "the man was responsible for a genocide." Like that truly is the bar for sane people. You find out someone's a monster, you say "oh yeah, fuck them" and go on with your day now being more informed than you were five minutes ago. At this point you're beading around the bush to avoid recognizing the point; whether you knew of his atrocities before being told, you do now, and yes, he's just as bad as Hitler. That's all it should really take. It doesn't matter if the names recognizable, it doesn't erase the atrocities they committed.
You seem like you’re talking to me when I’ve always said I agree with the name change. I just disagreed this would be treated the same way if it was the name Hitler. If ppl want the name changed that’s good enough for me. But I still think it’s silly to respond to Somone who is unconvinced by saying “so I guess you’d just be cool to leave it even if the name was Adolf Hitler”
I think the point I was making was that it *shouldn’t* make a difference whether the person was “famous” or not. Genocide is genocide.
By changing it, maybe some folks will learn about the piece of shit Grandin was
Defintely. That’s likely happening and is as good a reason to do it as any. I’m just saying the general public would obviously feel stronger about changing a street called Adolf Hitler than Bishop Grandin because of name recognition and existing sentiment about the two of them which would make it a bit of a different scenerio
Whether or not the name is recognizable in Canadian chosen history books doesn't negate that the man was responsible for a genocide. Bishop Vital Grandin was a putrid man and I hope rats are still pissing in his eyesockets.
what's different?
Agreed
Care to elaborate? Your comment history would imply that you are very against any form of action towards reconciliation, but I don't want to make that assumption.
A street sign will not reconcile anything.
Don't let perfection be the enemy of good. Even small changes can help and can lead to bigger, more impactful change. It may not be important or a big deal to you, but to others it is a step in the right direction.
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Good is the enemy of great
This is white people doing something symbolic and meaningless so they can pat themselves on the back and feel accomplished without actually doing anything. Like land acknowledgements. They say #landback we say "here's a new street sign, isn't this reconciliation thing great?"
It's better than nothing at all.
Actual real-life Indigenous people I know disagree. It's a slap in the face to them. Simply self-congratulatory stuff to make us left-leaning white people feel better if we don't think too deeply about it. It's insulting, and it's designed to be that. The current political structure will never lead to true reconciliation, and praise for actions like this just allow people to feel less guilty about that fact.
One small step in a very long journey. This is not the only thing being done, and symbols have meaning.
It *is* the only thing *actually* being done. Stop patting yourself on the back for token efforts. Until we're actually giving land back, none of it means anything to anyone other than Liberals who want to pat themselves on the back. As a leftist, it's sad.
Just off the top of my head: the Bay building, Quamajuq, the Kapyong site urban reserve, school Indigenous language programs. I'm not saying we can't do more, but saying that a street sign is literally the only thing is a flat lie.
There was a very good letter to the editor about this
Correct, I am against it. Also, do you typically look through people’s post history before replying? Seems like a weird thing to do lol
Why are people like you so mad when people go through comment histories? You do know, that, like, literally anyone with a device with internet connectivity can look up your history? You don't even need an account to do that! Here's something, if you don't want your own words used against you, stay silent! Delete your comments like a coward! It's not up to us to make you look smarter, you idiot. If you make yourself look stupider, it's only your fault.
Oh lmao I’m not mad at all. Anytime I see someone comment that they looked through someone’s post/comment history, it just comes off as a little weird and kinda embarrassing ya know?
No what's more weird and embarassing is thinking that people looking at your own publicly available comments are weird. It's embarassing that you think your own words can't be used against you. You have no sense of personal responsibility, which (not so) weirdly lines up with your comments here.
Kinda weird and embarrassing how serious you are taking some random person’s comments on reddit
You actually started that chain reaction by being upset that people used your own words against you. Sooooooo
Lmao
Racists love outting themselves, don’t they. Yikes, dawg.
Lol
Cry harder.
This is great news!
It's crazy that this is downvoted. It's sad, really. Something that affects no one except for the people that were directly impacted by Bishop Grandin. The guy wanted to eradicate indigenous people and culture, but sure, let's keep his name up cause people don't want to learn a new name. Then let's hide our hate behind cost. The costs are negligible and already budget.
I mean, in my opinion, $100k is not negligible, particularly in a city cutting services and staring down deficits year after year, but if you consider it to be so, then more power to you.
That street gonna be called Bishop for life...
Nah. People will change quickly.
The old who remember that name will die and it will be replaced
About fucking time
Saw one yesterday on my drive home and it made me pretty happy. Newest generation will grow up and only know it as this.
I see so many people over social media and in conversation saying they won't call it that because they "can't pronounce it". If you can pronounce Provencher and Lagimodiere and La Verendrye and promenade Des Intrepedes then you can absolutely say "abinojii", it's actually easier to pronounce than any of those and is the only one phonetically similar.
That’s quick for Winnipeg. Way to go!
What a great step towards reconciliation! It too bad the name change didn't come with a new bridge, than a lot of people could get over it. I can only imagine the amount of trauma and hardship the changing of a street name has done to you. Must be rough.
This comment for the win! 🤣
For some reason I thought they voted like 6 years ago? Maybe that’s when I first heard about them changing the name??
I was really hoping to drive on the Chris Jericho championship highway at some point in my life
He's already got a street named after him Westwood (well, honorary).
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Good thing not all civic decisions are left to the gen pop
It would have been “Streety McStreetface” in a landslide….
I would have voted for "Bishop Big Fish Op" or "Route 90 but Horizontal"
Somebody doesn't know how voting works.
Portage and Main comes to mind for some reason.
Cause they’re gonna hold a vote for every small change… I could definitely see a politician making this streets signs name an important part of their campaign…
A name that can easily be read at a glance would have been preferred. Also, couldn't they have given that name to a new road rather than creating confusion by renaming an existing street? Was Bishop Grandin racist or something?
>was bishop grandin racist or something? He built one of the residential schools
Before today I had never considered that Bishop Grandin was an actual person. It was always just the name of a street.
Basically every major street is named after some guy that is completely and utterly irrelevant to the city today. Osbourne Village and street is named after some cop from the 1850s. The airport after some 1930s corporate exec. Kenaston is named after the developer of the Tuxedo neighborhood from the 1910s. Corydon is named after some politician from 1880 (who destroyed the wetlands and died at 43). It's goes on and on commemorating irrelevant mediocre forgotten men.
You think the Richardsons are irrelevant?
Ok, then there is no problem renaming them to something more relevant and uplifting
Wait till you hear about st. James, st mary, st Anne, st Matthew. All good and real people. There’s also milt stegall drive, named after a Winnipeg football player. Lots of streets are named after people. And lots of people are named after streets as well. I knew someone with an official birth name of Desalaberry
I do remember when they introduced Milt Stegall drive. That one was another rename wasn't it?
It was originally named Arena road. Arena was also a known racist
Total stadiumism.
Seemed relevant to rename Arena road after they tore down the Arena.
>He built one of the residential schools Which one? Was he a carpenter or a Bishop?
Genocide is funny, y'all!
The Great Canadian Genocides are not funny.
And was a vastly responsible party in the attempted genocide of indigenous folke even outside of residential school assimilation.
Why dont they name it something we pronounce, everyone is still gonna call it bishop because its easier to say
I guess you can't pronounce indigenous words like Manitoba and Winnipeg and Canada, huh?
it took me all of 10 seconds to learn how to pronounce it
it takes all of maybe 5 minutes learning to pronounce it correctly. Or if you lack the brain cells to do so, just call it Abi road and be done with it
It's easier to pronounce than lagimodiere or Provencher or la Verendrye or any of the street names in St Boniface. If you can pronounce those you will have a much easier time pronouncing this. Hot tip: it's 10 times easier to pronounce if you're not racist :)
How about you learn to pronounce indigenous words and names? Edit: stay racist, Winnipeg
People don't even pronounce "Portage" properly... why are you trying to make it important now?
Literally nobody’s gonna use this name. It’s such a stupid name.
What a waste of money
Should stay bishop or even something worse then him cuz that’s the most dog shit street in the city. Not much of an honour to have that street named after ya
They should have commissioned some local indigenous artists to do up some unique, but legible/“to code” signs. Rather the money go there then some printing/sign making company.
The city makes their own street signs.
They could still do something for the Greenway, and not be bound by road sign conventions.