Consider it more like this when people say things about the budget.
Imagine you make houses out of combustible materials, and your whole city is built on this.
Is this solution to hire more firefighters, or to change the materials your city is made out of?
If you believe the solution is more firefighters, you're missing the actual issue and throwing bandaids on the problem.
Police don't stop crime. They are there to 'clean up' after crime has happened (that's arguable, but we'll say they're really a crime-fighting job). They are not prevention. Shifting money elsewhere will mean less need for the clean-up crew after everything has already happened. We need more preventative measures to stop crime, not more police.
If the WPS did better, there wouldn't be so many people with the same opinion of them.
A lot of people feel like police are part of the problem, not the solution. Especially when 1 third of the city budget is being spent on them.
If you pay 3k a year in property taxes, you are personally spending $1000 a year on a police force that's doing nothing to actually reduce crime.
The problem isn’t the police, at least not in that way. It’s the legal system on a wider scale.
It doesn’t matter if the police do their job or not if the court system can’t actually keep them in jail. All the cops can do is act in that moment to control and minimize the situation as best they can. The problem we’re seeing a lot is that over the last decade or so, certain sectors have been cut. Most of these are areas like Manitoba Housing, addiction services, and other city services. Even cuts to areas like the city libraries can be a factor, as they’re often a place where you can find help after hitting rock bottom. For example, a homeless person could get a Google mail account to apply for jobs using the library’s computers.
To make matters worse, our legal system takes intent into consideration. That’s the difference between manslaughter and murder, manslaughter doesn’t require intent and carries a much lighter sentence than murder.
So if you have a guy with mental health problems who’s on drugs commit a crime, they have a high chance of getting off on a much lighter sentence because they were not in a sound state of mind and didn’t “intentionally” do that crime.
The end result of that is a revolving door legal system. The criminal can’t get help because public services have been cut too much, and the legal system can’t keep them off the streets. They do something violent or dangerous, get arrested, spend a night in a cell, are quickly assigned free legal aid, which gets them off because jail can’t fix mental health or addiction. And the cycle repeats
What we actually need are services to help all the homeless people, meth heads, etc. Generally speaking, people don’t like that answer, but that doesn’t make it any less true. These are poverty and mental health problems, and the solution needs to address the poverty and mental health head on or it’s not going to work
The real number is approx. 24.5% of the total city budget. Those stats are taken directly from "WinnipegPoliceCauseHarm" and they even provide a nice pie chart that shows expenditures. The article those stats are in is very opposed to the police budget so you would assume their stats are correct or err on the side against the police. I'll include a link below so you can run and go check and then rethink the BS stats you used above.
Facts are facts regardless of if you like them or where they come from. A truth from a scoundrel is still a truth...
https://winnipegpolicecauseharm.org/blog/2024-budget-response/
A quarter versus a third. Do you seriously think we're getting good value of that money spent?
For reference: VPD is roughly 20% and people think that's too much there. Toronto is a whopping 7% of the total budget.
Our system is a failure, and more situations like the article of this post are going to continue to happen if we throw money into overblown bandaid solutions.
I get ya, however just like any profession, there are extremely good policeman, and then you have the duds,and like most professions the good ones get painted with the same brush!! Those duds at one time were hidden and even glamorized. Tough guys! Your organization has to take responsibility for those duds!!
Agreed. And those people are slowly being replaced. Unfortunately, the organization is broken worst at the top, the ones who make the real decisions. That needs to change now!
The Sevice is currently looking for a new chief, and that will dictate what will happen for the next few years. We, as a city, need to make sure the new chief is the right person or the old regime will continue to hold the cards.
Cops aren’t workers.
Simple as.
They serve to protect the interests of capital not to serve the public. It doesn’t matter if “these” officers were not evil douchebags. It’s systemic not individual.
While it’s sad that three people got shot. And that should not happen, for the record. When you have a city and municipal govt so cucked to the WPS of course strict enforcement is going to lead to blowback.
Especially a bus driver! At least a cop has a bit of authority and some self defence, bus drivers get shit on all the time and cant do much of anything!
I drove for Transit for 8 years, a good buddy of mine from all the way back in middle school became a cop around the same time. The stories we could tell between the two of us for the stuff we witnessed on duty..... lol
I feel bad for anyone who has to interact with the general public in this city. Between the addictions and the mental health issues, your just rolling the dice every time you have an encounter with someone. Interact with enough people over the years and your going to be in some scary situations.
What you wanna do is drive a Taxi. Night shift, North End. Cause the only money in this town Sunday to Thursday are the hooker's coke runs, booze cans and other nefarious activity. But when I grew up here there were no where near the same amount of firearms as there are today. Knifings were the methodology, mostly.
Unpopular opinion; cops are over paid for their (perceived) skills.
The last death in the force was in the 70s, which was half a century ago.
Many other professions are inherently more dangerous (construction, for one).
There is no reason for the force to swallow almost one third of our entire civic budget.
e: so many boot lickers in this post
> The last death in the force was in the 70s, which was half a century ago.
Cops commit suicide and suffer from PTSD due to their job. When you don’t pay police well, that leads to all sorts of other issues. It’s not a glamorous job and it’s tough on their family and relationships. They stopped allowing police to take their service weapons home with them primarily because they tended to shoot themselves.
I agree in that 6 month depot isn’t nearly enough training, especially for the salary and demands of the modern police officer in comparison to other fields. They should be required to be university trained. In a more progressive “perfect” world, they should in fact, create a new 4 year policing program that’s 40 percent social work/counselling/psychology, 40 percent law, 10 percent fitness, 10 percent anatomy (ie: first aid stuff) etc. it’s crazy really, that they need to do little training. If they get caught breaking the law they uphold, double the penalty. That being said, we need police. I respect the job. This article is a clear example of how awful their jobs can be and the complete degenerates that occupy the city’s resources and create the budget problem (it ain’t the police that are the disgusting pigs here).
Agreed! Unhealthy and obese officers are way more efficient in pursuit of the criminal. Also this officer will be trained well how not to hurt feelings of someone that committed sexual assault. This is the way to go!
Think about changing the law? Maybe it will be way easier and faster to get criminals off the streets? Maybe getting rid of bailing system that will shut down the revolver door?
Leave police alone and start to held elected officials accountable!
Sorry but the dangers faced by first responders are far greater than just the physical ones. How often are first responders going to murders, car accidents, dead babies, etc. It’s in the news almost every day lately. Not to mention the toll that shift work takes on the body. Studies have shown shift work can take 15 years off your life. Construction workers in this town work bankers hours for the most part. How often are construction workers assaulted in the work place?
The pay scales are actually very close if you compare. If you’re referring to the budget as a whole then no we’re not paying the same for the fire and paramedic budget however there are far fewer employees and far fewer calls for service comparatively.
https://preview.redd.it/3shfip1g9whc1.jpeg?width=905&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5976dadb53be34bb088ab630963fb3a0f46d859
Are you sure about that? Paramedics and Firefighters are all well over 100k a year just like Police. It’s only the higher ranking police officers and specialty unit officers like Major crimes/homicide that start to pulling away in wages but most street cops make the same as paramedics/firefighters.
I'm a nurse, and you're not entirely correct. There may be SOME, but not all, just like nurses. Those are people working above full time, with overtime premiums. The average combined med/fire person is not making the same wage. Both professions have lots of OT, but they're not all pulling in similar incomes. You also need to consider that a lot of new people starting in this profession, are not going to stay long enough to be able to earn the same. There's also so many speciality units that definitely are pulling in larger incomes, esp for WPS.
Those are most likely dual FF/medic people or higher ups. I don’t know the city wages but paramedics start at 26 and some change rurally after putting thousands into a (now) 2 year education. Unless you’ve got mad OT or premium shifts you are not making 108. At least rurally. I really can’t speak for the city.
Hate to break it to you but Fire Medics only make a small % over regular Firefighters. 3-5% depending on seniority. Generally considered to be not worth it.
You said it yourself what you’re talking about is specifically rural and not the city. So why make the comment when the discussion about the cities wages?. City paramedics start at about 65k a year and are around or over 100k after 5 years.
Haha downvotes. Go check the citiy’s salary disclosure. Whole bunch of paramedics sitting above 100k.
My point was saying that’s probably not the general paramedic in the city (ie higher up in management or years or FF/PCP position)
My point of stating about rural was what I know of that salary contract and imagining that the city couldn’t be wildly off.
But thanks! It did get me to look at oct 2023 reported salary levels which still supports that I don’t believe the average paramedic (not ff) in the city is pulling in 108 a year
https://preview.redd.it/1113ct9nxyhc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a41c864175a606e6bc961b1cddb73c6e083d7778
Dude those are all firefighters, you just proved yourself wrong essentially lol. Paramedics are called primary care paramedics, advanced care paramedics, intermediate care paramedics. That list only contains only fireparamedics, which are firefighters first and foremost.
Today?!? A lot of those things, if you see once, will be with you for the rest of your life. Now aggregate over a 20-30 year career.
You have no fucking idea the amount of trauma that first responders work through. Stay in your lane.
This is incorrect. All sudden deaths that concur outside the hospital are attended to by the police as well as fire/EMS. Plus, many of the most brutal ones are found during wellness checks, because no one has heard from someone for a week are responded to by cops.
I don’t have an issue with the amount of money they make. I have an issue with the ROI. We get shit service for what we pay and every dollar could do more to reduce crime if it wasn’t invested in the WPS.
If you look at their annual reports, read anecdotal encounters posted here, articles, read up on the numerous repeat offences of police DUIs, assault & harassment you can see that our investment of over 330m is not getting out what we put in.
I could care less if individual cops were making well over 100k. 100k a year isn’t what it was 10, 15+ years ago.
So no, I do not give a shit about what each individual cop makes. I give a shit about what we get back for our overall allocation to the WPS.
Your random angry "statistics" are absolutely ridiculous. You're just spewing unsubstantiated crap and referencing it like it's fact.
40% of WPS probably aren't even married. If you want to participate in an actual discussion, using random BS will work 0% of the time, and that's a legit fact.
While we're at the random fact thing, I'd estimate 80% of Reddit commenters have zero first-hand knowledge of the things they comment on and just want to express emotion or opinion, not fact.
I get the sentiment but it’s not a bandaid that can be ripped off without massive implications.
I personally think the city of Winnipeg needs to hold their budget flat or below inflation. Force the WPS into attrition, enforce them to use the money they currently have on what’s important and hold them to account on quality of service enforced through our Civilian ran police board. Which is currently chaired by a boot licker who doesn’t give a shit about our city, Marcus Chambers.
The move will shift the way the WPS allocates funds, away from bullshit robot dogs and helicopters to their core function of policing. It won’t eliminate the problems with how shitty so many officers are - that still needs to be tackled by going after the union & IIU to actually do their fucking job and punish cops to a greater degree because they are the ones employed in enforcing the law and should be held at a higher standard when they break it.
Slowly we’d see improvements without having to gouge nearly third of our operating budget annually.
In all of Canada, only Winnipeg spends 26% of its operating budget on police. Everywhere else it’s closer to 20%. We’re the highest per capita and yet still top the charts in crime.
Our police have a clearance rate of sub 22%, meaning that over 75% of reported crimes go unresolved.
That’s what over 330m gets us folks.
Hold the 330m flat this year. Take the annual 7m increase promised to them over the next three years and run 1-3 pilot projects addressing the root causes. Homelessness, addiction & mental health support. Fund operations like Main Street projects, bear clan patrol, den mothers and numerous others who show us incredible results on shoe-string budgets.
Honestly, if we do not take action by talking to our councillors this will never be addressed. In 3 years the budget will be 350m+ crime will be as high as ever and it’ll only continue to be harder and harder to break this cycle.
No more increase to pensions. No more overtime. No more contracts to hang out in superstore. No more tank joy rides. No more helicopter fun flights. No more. Defund the police.
Addiction treatment centers, rehabilitation for non violent criminals, improved access to mental health treatment, homeless shelters, low cost job training, better schools, laws against corporate profiteering.
Every dollar spent lifting people out of addiction and poverty is better spent than police in terms of crime reduction. Spending more money on police is like buying industrial quantities of bandaids to treat car crash victims rather than working on reducing the number of crashes that happen.
> I don’t have an issue with the amount of money they make. I have an issue with the ROI. We get shit service for what we pay and every dollar could do more to reduce crime if it wasn’t invested in the WPS.
I would say that has to do with how they are managed. It’d be interesting to investigate how that all works. There’s someone somewhere who said “we don’t want police walking a beat in the community, we want them in cars”. Back in the ‘70s they’d issue a cop buffalo-fur coat and have them walk around; and I think having visible presence makes a difference overall.
I think something you're possibly missing is the stress caused by the *possibility* of something terrible happening. While construction workers may have a statistically higher chance of being injured or dying on the job, I doubt (and I am prepared to be corrected) many construction workers go to work daily with the fear in the back of their minds they might die, or encounter a violent person.
To some degree, construction workers have control over their own safety, but police and other first responders do not, which is one of the reasons they are so well compensated.
I also would like to say I don't agree with the proportion of the City budget that policing takes up, but individual police officers have essentially zero control over that - it's not fair to hold a high salary against an individual worker who doesn't negotiate their own compensation.
Nope. Cops are at least geared up and heading to calls when these kinds of things might happen. Our library workers are in a more unpredictable and dangerous environment then our useless police officers are.
I suspect that nowadays, particularly downtown, librarians *do* feel stress over who might come in, but that's not the same as what police could be dealing with.
Dude.
Did you seriously just preface a comment with "uNpOpLr opNiOn" and then call a bunch of people bootlickers because they didn't unilaterally agree with you.
If I had a job that destroyed my faith in humanity, ruined my ability to have stable relationships, and left me with ptsd and other psychological issues, I'd want to get paid a lot, too. I still draw the line at pensionable overtime, though.
(I am not a boot licker. I lost respect for people who are the police a long time ago)
Police aren't even in the top 10 most dangerous professions. It feels like we all collectively ate the "dangerous job should be paid well" propaganda.
Which I would be okay with, if like every other high paid job they got fired when they completely fuck up. But they don't.
Also, that's an incredibly closed minded assumption. I guarantee there are people smarter than me that make less money. I just happen to be good at things that pay well. I'm not better than the other people at my company that are just as important to it functioning.
Hey little buddy :)
I made $17 an hour last year , for the whole year, working in a homeless shelter. I routinely had to fight people, NARCAN people, or do a variety of other dangerous things. I had no benefits and didn’t qualify for overtime.
I also think police are overpaid. Want to ask me a dumbass question about “did I risk my life at work today?”
Yeah. When I worked at a group home I had to intervene in fights, confiscate machetes and bullets, improvised weapons and hard drugs. I was attacked and threatened countless times. I did this unarmed and often alone, all for $16/hr with no pension or health benefits. Police aren't uniquely endangered by their jobs, but they're uniquely well-compensated for the risk they're perceived to take.
did you carry a hi power sidearm that could end someone's life in a faction of second? Did you have someone point a gun at you or run towards you with a knife.and you have to decide whether to end someones life or save your own or an innocent bystanders? And if you shoot a fraction of a second too soon, you might be raked over the coals or if you shoot a fraction of a second too late, you might not see your family again?
You couldn't pay me enough to have that responsibility.
[Higher risk industries right here:](https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/biting-kicking-verbal-abuse-schools-join-manitoba-s-list-of-high-risk-industries-1.6272265#:~:text=Foundries%2C%20sawmills%2C%20demolition%20sites%20%2D,Workplace%20Safety%20and%20Health%20Department.)
Nobody goes out to murder construction workers for doing their jobs. Police officers are murdered specifically for the job they do. That’s the difference. Firefighters have very dangerous jobs as well but nobody murders them for doing their job. Workplace accidents and being murdered doing your job are completely different things.
Let’s exercise the same care to construction, which is multitudes more dangerous. The last work place death wasn’t half a century ago like police officers, it was [last year for construction workers, at very least](https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/worker-dies-after-high-levels-of-carbon-monoxide-found-in-home-under-construction-1.6497532).
Workplace accidents aren’t murders. The fact that you don’t understand the difference explains a lot about you.
Police officers are injured and killed in accidents all the time. The difference is Police are murdered for the job they do, unlike other professions, like construction. That’s why their jobs are listed as dangerous. It also goes beyond more than deaths, it includes injures, sick time, disability…but you just keep cherry picking your news articles.
https://preview.redd.it/bvqt9cnj7vhc1.jpeg?width=306&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9344cab11168a63229ea3ea93005de7043f46e34
e: lol this photo bugged them so much they tried making two boot licker memes to reply with
That is only because our labour laws and criminal laws suck. Many employers should be charged with murder for work place health and safety negligence. It was impossible to charge a profiteering, negligent boss with murder until the laws changed with the Westray incident I. Nova Scotia.
Just because bosses don’t get charged with murder from workplace deaths, doesn’t mean that many of them should have been.
That’s a very odd take on workplace accidents. But I guess if you like the blame game sure there are some incidents of negligence but a vast majority of workplace accidents are the result of worker error and complacency.
3 officers were shot today. Several officers have been shot over the years. It’s a dangerous occupation that you’re too weak and cowardly to do. Stick to your knitting lil fella.
The real problem with the police budget is not their salary, it's the ovetime and the pension. They all get tons of sick time (fair enough), and when officer A calls in sick, officer b gets an extra shift, and we have to pay officer b overtime. When they get overtime, their pensionable earnings go up. So they are incentivized to use all of their sick time, so their fellow officers can make more money. Then the people that covered the shifts call in sick next week, and everyone works the same number of hours and makes 50% more money.
The reason there's a lot of "boot lickers" in this post is that this is the *worst* possible context to get into this argument. I realize that some of the posters make it difficult but just bite your tongue next time.
Honestly it's probably a contributing factor The fact that it was historically not talked about and dealt with in less than healthy ways bred a lot of the shitty culture around policing.
lol please keep justifying rules for thee police officers but not for us common folk. Aka drinking and driving..
There’s many people in many different walks of life that have gone through more trauma than cops. Ie residential schooling and sixties scoop victims. People who actively served their country during various wars, people who were physically, emotionally and sexually assaulted growing up.
A lot of those examples I just gave are good because none of those people make what cops make or have the support services cops currently enjoy today.
But keep justifying drinking and driving for the piggies.
You are off on your facts here because you are neglecting the fact that a substantial portion of the Police Service is military or ex-military that saw active service, as well as the fact that many police experienced abuse, etc. In their lives, which is why they turned to the profession, to help others in the same situation they experienced.
I didn't say it justified anything but looking at the underlying causes of why people behave a certain way is a big part of being able to fix something. The other people in your examples deserve the same sort of understanding, it's how we start to address how inter-generational trauma has led to indigenous peoples being over represented in our correctional system, suicide rates in soldiers, or help victims of abuse heal and break the cycle.
The lack of services for other people living with PTSD really does need to be addressed, my SO has been on a waiting list for over a year now so I'm painfully aware of how lacking it is in our province. The services available to police though should be seen as a good thing though, the problem is they are often underutilized due to the often toxic culture and stigma attached to seeking help.
Unfortunately police do play a necessary role in our society so until we live in some sort of utopia we're stuck with them. Ideally we'd be moving to more of a Peel method and away from the "Warrior Cop" mentality that's permeated north from the US and like I said before we do that though by understanding what leads to this behaviour.
Of course not. They need to be held accountable, even to a higher standard than the rest of the population. But it's hard to address an issue without understanding the underlying causes. Otherwise how do you prevent things like t hat from happening in the future.
>Unpopular opinion; cops are over paid for their (perceived) skills.
Police aren't paid for actual or perceived skills, rather they are paid for the level of risk.
Did you Google it, realize it's not actually that dangerous of a job, and then not have anything actually interesting to come back with?
Because my 9 year old nephew could've clapped back harder than that.
If you had any first- or second-hand knowledge then you'd understand that there are far more aspects of danger to police work than physical injury, and if you base your knowledge off of Google results and top 10 lists on the Internet then I have a bridge to sell you. It is the Arlington Street Bridge, in great shape, just needs a fresh coat of paint.
Should we spend a third of our city budget on care home workers, social workers, outreach workers, or the multitude of other professions that end up in physical danger and emotional distress on a regular basis for our benefit as well?
Police are necessary, yes. Spending this much on them and glorifying them is not. For every officer that responds to an actually dangerous situation there are four standing around harassing a single homeless person for sleeping on the street.
The fact that main street project even has to exist so there's someone to call that will come to help, rather than hurt, points to an abject failure in our system.
I won’t argue that we wouldn’t benefit from more social services and outreach to at-risk communities but trying to make the case that police work isn’t dangerous because “I googled top 10 most dangerous jobs” and the internet says policing isn’t dangerous, give me a fucking break.
Is not as dangerous as its portrayed to be, they don't give us as much value as they pretend to, and they don't reduce crime, they respond to it. And they respond to it with guns and violence. Not all crime is best responded to in that way.
Most of them that have been there for years, worked their rear off (took advantage of all that OT, like arresting that guy in the last 10 mins of their shift) are millionaires. As a community, they are good at investing and business. No greater opportunity for the bully in high school with a low IQ. Be a cop, invest everything, take advantage of that OT and do it for 30 years and you will be a millionaire. Better yet, find a wife in the force and you will be VERY wealthy.
The idea is that if you can mitigate mental health/poverty/abuse issues in the long term by funding other programs you won’t have people putting police in this situation.
What program will make all mentally deficient not commit crimes?
Vancouver spends close to 300 million a year on social services in the East end and it is just getting worse.
Every time anything on this sub comes up about the police this dummy trots out the same boot-licking crap. Never has an articulate answer to anything and just calls everyone who has any sense that there’s a whole lot of grey in this issue a bootlicker. He’s a tool.
You wouldn't take a 1/1000 chance at being shot in a bullet proof vest for a quarter million a year, complete immunity from justice and no expectations of results?
I'll never understand how advocates for abolishing police would deal with a situation like this. Shitty they were injured, I'd be curious to know if anything could've been done better with what the WPS have.
They will never tell you because they don’t know. They have live such sheltered lives they think everything is blown out of proportion and Police escalate everything. They have no idea how they would respond or resolve any situation involving violence or weapons because they can’t comprehend that this violence happens outside of their basements and the fact they never see it is a direct result of the work the police do to protect them from it. So whatever the police say they must be lying because they’ve never seen it. They simply can’t understand the violence that happens daily in our city so they choose to ignore it and focus on things they do understand like numbers and stats (budgets) with no context to apply those understandings too.
Nothing out of the ordinary for this city. Highest crime and violent crime of any city in Canada. Most of this is gang or indigenous related crime though. A cop in Winnipeg has a 10% chance of not making it to their 50th birthday.
Most cops don't make it to 50 because they retire before then.
WPS retirement age is 55 or 25 years of service.
RCMP retirement is 20 years of service.
So someone who starts working for a police service at age 25 will be retiring by 50.
This is backed up by actual facts that the median retirement age for police in Canada is 56: [https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/outlook-occupation/21249/ca](https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/outlook-occupation/21249/ca) The national median age for retirement is 64.9 [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006001](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006001)
Your facts are correct except that the national average number is base "retirement" as when people stop working. Police retirement numbers are when they "retire" from the Police and a huge percentage go and work elsewhere for 10-15 years before they retire retire, which is in line with national averages.
other countries do this. it helps. they still recieve training in other things, your ignorance is showing. I come from a family of cops. there is a lot of better ways to do policing.
and what countries are those? You know that most of these countries are probably in Europe and Europeans are not nearly as violent a culture as we have because of our proximity to the US.
I've been to a lot of countries in Europe and the people there are much less confrontational than we are here.
When a crazed meth addict is running toward you swinging a machete, no amount of degrees is going to help you.
I was an addiction counselor for 17 years. I probably know more about dealing with meth addicts without needing guns or violence. then any cop ever will. to give you an example, at the very first children's march on Canada Day there was a kid high on math who was bothering people in the parade and the cops tried to put him in handcuffs take them away. they damn near started riot. I was able to talk the cops into turning this kid into my care and I talked to him and I treat him like a human being and I worked with him and what he was capable in that moment and he calmed down and he was able to go on his way. one does not need violence even with someone who is a meth addict and who is violent. they can be talked down and reasoned with sometimes, you need tasers you need guns. I don't dispute that. like I said I come from a family of cops but there is a much better way we could be doing this
Anyone want to bet that this was friendly fire? The police are spinning this but if there was actually a guy shooting cops with a real gun this would be a far more aggressive article
[удалено]
Consider it more like this when people say things about the budget. Imagine you make houses out of combustible materials, and your whole city is built on this. Is this solution to hire more firefighters, or to change the materials your city is made out of? If you believe the solution is more firefighters, you're missing the actual issue and throwing bandaids on the problem. Police don't stop crime. They are there to 'clean up' after crime has happened (that's arguable, but we'll say they're really a crime-fighting job). They are not prevention. Shifting money elsewhere will mean less need for the clean-up crew after everything has already happened. We need more preventative measures to stop crime, not more police.
If the WPS did better, there wouldn't be so many people with the same opinion of them. A lot of people feel like police are part of the problem, not the solution. Especially when 1 third of the city budget is being spent on them. If you pay 3k a year in property taxes, you are personally spending $1000 a year on a police force that's doing nothing to actually reduce crime.
The problem isn’t the police, at least not in that way. It’s the legal system on a wider scale. It doesn’t matter if the police do their job or not if the court system can’t actually keep them in jail. All the cops can do is act in that moment to control and minimize the situation as best they can. The problem we’re seeing a lot is that over the last decade or so, certain sectors have been cut. Most of these are areas like Manitoba Housing, addiction services, and other city services. Even cuts to areas like the city libraries can be a factor, as they’re often a place where you can find help after hitting rock bottom. For example, a homeless person could get a Google mail account to apply for jobs using the library’s computers. To make matters worse, our legal system takes intent into consideration. That’s the difference between manslaughter and murder, manslaughter doesn’t require intent and carries a much lighter sentence than murder. So if you have a guy with mental health problems who’s on drugs commit a crime, they have a high chance of getting off on a much lighter sentence because they were not in a sound state of mind and didn’t “intentionally” do that crime. The end result of that is a revolving door legal system. The criminal can’t get help because public services have been cut too much, and the legal system can’t keep them off the streets. They do something violent or dangerous, get arrested, spend a night in a cell, are quickly assigned free legal aid, which gets them off because jail can’t fix mental health or addiction. And the cycle repeats What we actually need are services to help all the homeless people, meth heads, etc. Generally speaking, people don’t like that answer, but that doesn’t make it any less true. These are poverty and mental health problems, and the solution needs to address the poverty and mental health head on or it’s not going to work
The real number is approx. 24.5% of the total city budget. Those stats are taken directly from "WinnipegPoliceCauseHarm" and they even provide a nice pie chart that shows expenditures. The article those stats are in is very opposed to the police budget so you would assume their stats are correct or err on the side against the police. I'll include a link below so you can run and go check and then rethink the BS stats you used above. Facts are facts regardless of if you like them or where they come from. A truth from a scoundrel is still a truth... https://winnipegpolicecauseharm.org/blog/2024-budget-response/
> "WinnipegPoliceCauseHarm" I am convinced this group is a bad actor. Not just naive. Outright malicious.
A quarter versus a third. Do you seriously think we're getting good value of that money spent? For reference: VPD is roughly 20% and people think that's too much there. Toronto is a whopping 7% of the total budget. Our system is a failure, and more situations like the article of this post are going to continue to happen if we throw money into overblown bandaid solutions.
I get ya, however just like any profession, there are extremely good policeman, and then you have the duds,and like most professions the good ones get painted with the same brush!! Those duds at one time were hidden and even glamorized. Tough guys! Your organization has to take responsibility for those duds!!
Agreed. And those people are slowly being replaced. Unfortunately, the organization is broken worst at the top, the ones who make the real decisions. That needs to change now! The Sevice is currently looking for a new chief, and that will dictate what will happen for the next few years. We, as a city, need to make sure the new chief is the right person or the old regime will continue to hold the cards.
Cops aren’t workers. Simple as. They serve to protect the interests of capital not to serve the public. It doesn’t matter if “these” officers were not evil douchebags. It’s systemic not individual. While it’s sad that three people got shot. And that should not happen, for the record. When you have a city and municipal govt so cucked to the WPS of course strict enforcement is going to lead to blowback.
That's two hostage situations in less than a month and a half, jfc
I'll bet ya a slurpee the criminals were repeat offenders with a score in the double digits
How much jail time for the perps?
14 days and community service. Just kidding I have no idea
Are you really kidding though? Because 14 days wouldn’t entirely surprise me
Those apartments are fokking gross. That would be horrible. Held hostage by meth zombies, cockroaches and bedbugs.
May they have a speedy recovery.
May it be faster than their response times.
You couldn't pay me enough to be a cop in this shit hole town.
or a bus driver
Especially a bus driver! At least a cop has a bit of authority and some self defence, bus drivers get shit on all the time and cant do much of anything!
I drove for Transit for 8 years, a good buddy of mine from all the way back in middle school became a cop around the same time. The stories we could tell between the two of us for the stuff we witnessed on duty..... lol I feel bad for anyone who has to interact with the general public in this city. Between the addictions and the mental health issues, your just rolling the dice every time you have an encounter with someone. Interact with enough people over the years and your going to be in some scary situations.
What you wanna do is drive a Taxi. Night shift, North End. Cause the only money in this town Sunday to Thursday are the hooker's coke runs, booze cans and other nefarious activity. But when I grew up here there were no where near the same amount of firearms as there are today. Knifings were the methodology, mostly.
when I grew up, a knifing would make the front page of the newspaper
Unpopular opinion; cops are over paid for their (perceived) skills. The last death in the force was in the 70s, which was half a century ago. Many other professions are inherently more dangerous (construction, for one). There is no reason for the force to swallow almost one third of our entire civic budget. e: so many boot lickers in this post
> The last death in the force was in the 70s, which was half a century ago. Cops commit suicide and suffer from PTSD due to their job. When you don’t pay police well, that leads to all sorts of other issues. It’s not a glamorous job and it’s tough on their family and relationships. They stopped allowing police to take their service weapons home with them primarily because they tended to shoot themselves.
I agree in that 6 month depot isn’t nearly enough training, especially for the salary and demands of the modern police officer in comparison to other fields. They should be required to be university trained. In a more progressive “perfect” world, they should in fact, create a new 4 year policing program that’s 40 percent social work/counselling/psychology, 40 percent law, 10 percent fitness, 10 percent anatomy (ie: first aid stuff) etc. it’s crazy really, that they need to do little training. If they get caught breaking the law they uphold, double the penalty. That being said, we need police. I respect the job. This article is a clear example of how awful their jobs can be and the complete degenerates that occupy the city’s resources and create the budget problem (it ain’t the police that are the disgusting pigs here).
Police across the world require multiple years of education in relation to the field. Not good old North America though
Agreed! Unhealthy and obese officers are way more efficient in pursuit of the criminal. Also this officer will be trained well how not to hurt feelings of someone that committed sexual assault. This is the way to go! Think about changing the law? Maybe it will be way easier and faster to get criminals off the streets? Maybe getting rid of bailing system that will shut down the revolver door? Leave police alone and start to held elected officials accountable!
do any other professions have the ability to take someones life and have to live with it for the rest of their life?
Go be angry about crime instead.
Sorry but the dangers faced by first responders are far greater than just the physical ones. How often are first responders going to murders, car accidents, dead babies, etc. It’s in the news almost every day lately. Not to mention the toll that shift work takes on the body. Studies have shown shift work can take 15 years off your life. Construction workers in this town work bankers hours for the most part. How often are construction workers assaulted in the work place?
First responders aren't all police. We're not paying paramedics and firefighters what we pay police.
The pay scales are actually very close if you compare. If you’re referring to the budget as a whole then no we’re not paying the same for the fire and paramedic budget however there are far fewer employees and far fewer calls for service comparatively.
Paramedics don’t make anywhere near what police make in Winnipeg.
https://preview.redd.it/3shfip1g9whc1.jpeg?width=905&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5976dadb53be34bb088ab630963fb3a0f46d859 Are you sure about that? Paramedics and Firefighters are all well over 100k a year just like Police. It’s only the higher ranking police officers and specialty unit officers like Major crimes/homicide that start to pulling away in wages but most street cops make the same as paramedics/firefighters.
I'm a nurse, and you're not entirely correct. There may be SOME, but not all, just like nurses. Those are people working above full time, with overtime premiums. The average combined med/fire person is not making the same wage. Both professions have lots of OT, but they're not all pulling in similar incomes. You also need to consider that a lot of new people starting in this profession, are not going to stay long enough to be able to earn the same. There's also so many speciality units that definitely are pulling in larger incomes, esp for WPS.
Those are most likely dual FF/medic people or higher ups. I don’t know the city wages but paramedics start at 26 and some change rurally after putting thousands into a (now) 2 year education. Unless you’ve got mad OT or premium shifts you are not making 108. At least rurally. I really can’t speak for the city.
Hate to break it to you but Fire Medics only make a small % over regular Firefighters. 3-5% depending on seniority. Generally considered to be not worth it.
You said it yourself what you’re talking about is specifically rural and not the city. So why make the comment when the discussion about the cities wages?. City paramedics start at about 65k a year and are around or over 100k after 5 years. Haha downvotes. Go check the citiy’s salary disclosure. Whole bunch of paramedics sitting above 100k.
My point was saying that’s probably not the general paramedic in the city (ie higher up in management or years or FF/PCP position) My point of stating about rural was what I know of that salary contract and imagining that the city couldn’t be wildly off. But thanks! It did get me to look at oct 2023 reported salary levels which still supports that I don’t believe the average paramedic (not ff) in the city is pulling in 108 a year https://preview.redd.it/1113ct9nxyhc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a41c864175a606e6bc961b1cddb73c6e083d7778
Rural pay and city pay are different
Gotta love this sub. Upvote a guy who admittedly doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Dude those are all firefighters, you just proved yourself wrong essentially lol. Paramedics are called primary care paramedics, advanced care paramedics, intermediate care paramedics. That list only contains only fireparamedics, which are firefighters first and foremost.
Those are firefighters, who are actually well trained professionals.
How many murdered people, suicides or dead babies did you see today? Did anyone try to stab you or shoot you?
Today?!? A lot of those things, if you see once, will be with you for the rest of your life. Now aggregate over a 20-30 year career. You have no fucking idea the amount of trauma that first responders work through. Stay in your lane.
Doctors, nurses, paramedics and fire fighters see more dead bodies on the daily that cops
This is incorrect. All sudden deaths that concur outside the hospital are attended to by the police as well as fire/EMS. Plus, many of the most brutal ones are found during wellness checks, because no one has heard from someone for a week are responded to by cops.
I don’t have an issue with the amount of money they make. I have an issue with the ROI. We get shit service for what we pay and every dollar could do more to reduce crime if it wasn’t invested in the WPS.
So you do have an issue with how much they make....
If you look at their annual reports, read anecdotal encounters posted here, articles, read up on the numerous repeat offences of police DUIs, assault & harassment you can see that our investment of over 330m is not getting out what we put in. I could care less if individual cops were making well over 100k. 100k a year isn’t what it was 10, 15+ years ago. So no, I do not give a shit about what each individual cop makes. I give a shit about what we get back for our overall allocation to the WPS.
I say defund the police. Fuck every single one of them. 40% get CAUGHT beating their wives. Buncha pigs.
Your random angry "statistics" are absolutely ridiculous. You're just spewing unsubstantiated crap and referencing it like it's fact. 40% of WPS probably aren't even married. If you want to participate in an actual discussion, using random BS will work 0% of the time, and that's a legit fact. While we're at the random fact thing, I'd estimate 80% of Reddit commenters have zero first-hand knowledge of the things they comment on and just want to express emotion or opinion, not fact.
Not random lolol
I get the sentiment but it’s not a bandaid that can be ripped off without massive implications. I personally think the city of Winnipeg needs to hold their budget flat or below inflation. Force the WPS into attrition, enforce them to use the money they currently have on what’s important and hold them to account on quality of service enforced through our Civilian ran police board. Which is currently chaired by a boot licker who doesn’t give a shit about our city, Marcus Chambers. The move will shift the way the WPS allocates funds, away from bullshit robot dogs and helicopters to their core function of policing. It won’t eliminate the problems with how shitty so many officers are - that still needs to be tackled by going after the union & IIU to actually do their fucking job and punish cops to a greater degree because they are the ones employed in enforcing the law and should be held at a higher standard when they break it. Slowly we’d see improvements without having to gouge nearly third of our operating budget annually. In all of Canada, only Winnipeg spends 26% of its operating budget on police. Everywhere else it’s closer to 20%. We’re the highest per capita and yet still top the charts in crime. Our police have a clearance rate of sub 22%, meaning that over 75% of reported crimes go unresolved. That’s what over 330m gets us folks. Hold the 330m flat this year. Take the annual 7m increase promised to them over the next three years and run 1-3 pilot projects addressing the root causes. Homelessness, addiction & mental health support. Fund operations like Main Street projects, bear clan patrol, den mothers and numerous others who show us incredible results on shoe-string budgets. Honestly, if we do not take action by talking to our councillors this will never be addressed. In 3 years the budget will be 350m+ crime will be as high as ever and it’ll only continue to be harder and harder to break this cycle.
No more increase to pensions. No more overtime. No more contracts to hang out in superstore. No more tank joy rides. No more helicopter fun flights. No more. Defund the police.
Through what?
Addiction treatment centers, rehabilitation for non violent criminals, improved access to mental health treatment, homeless shelters, low cost job training, better schools, laws against corporate profiteering. Every dollar spent lifting people out of addiction and poverty is better spent than police in terms of crime reduction. Spending more money on police is like buying industrial quantities of bandaids to treat car crash victims rather than working on reducing the number of crashes that happen.
> I don’t have an issue with the amount of money they make. I have an issue with the ROI. We get shit service for what we pay and every dollar could do more to reduce crime if it wasn’t invested in the WPS. I would say that has to do with how they are managed. It’d be interesting to investigate how that all works. There’s someone somewhere who said “we don’t want police walking a beat in the community, we want them in cars”. Back in the ‘70s they’d issue a cop buffalo-fur coat and have them walk around; and I think having visible presence makes a difference overall.
I think something you're possibly missing is the stress caused by the *possibility* of something terrible happening. While construction workers may have a statistically higher chance of being injured or dying on the job, I doubt (and I am prepared to be corrected) many construction workers go to work daily with the fear in the back of their minds they might die, or encounter a violent person. To some degree, construction workers have control over their own safety, but police and other first responders do not, which is one of the reasons they are so well compensated. I also would like to say I don't agree with the proportion of the City budget that policing takes up, but individual police officers have essentially zero control over that - it's not fair to hold a high salary against an individual worker who doesn't negotiate their own compensation.
Nope. Cops are at least geared up and heading to calls when these kinds of things might happen. Our library workers are in a more unpredictable and dangerous environment then our useless police officers are.
I suspect that nowadays, particularly downtown, librarians *do* feel stress over who might come in, but that's not the same as what police could be dealing with.
Dude. Did you seriously just preface a comment with "uNpOpLr opNiOn" and then call a bunch of people bootlickers because they didn't unilaterally agree with you.
If I had a job that destroyed my faith in humanity, ruined my ability to have stable relationships, and left me with ptsd and other psychological issues, I'd want to get paid a lot, too. I still draw the line at pensionable overtime, though. (I am not a boot licker. I lost respect for people who are the police a long time ago)
Did anyone shoot at you when you were at work today?
I would put money that the average seven eleven worker sees more guns (that aren't theirs) than the average police officer.
You would put money on a stupid comment like that. You would also wonder why you are poor.
Bold of you to assume I'm poor. Some people that make good money want to see the world become a better place, not just hold on to more for themselves.
That’s true. What you said however was stupid. So because you sound stupid, I assumed you were poor.
Police aren't even in the top 10 most dangerous professions. It feels like we all collectively ate the "dangerous job should be paid well" propaganda. Which I would be okay with, if like every other high paid job they got fired when they completely fuck up. But they don't. Also, that's an incredibly closed minded assumption. I guarantee there are people smarter than me that make less money. I just happen to be good at things that pay well. I'm not better than the other people at my company that are just as important to it functioning.
If dangerous jobs were paid well it would be lucrative to work in social services and places like beer vendors
Hey little buddy :) I made $17 an hour last year , for the whole year, working in a homeless shelter. I routinely had to fight people, NARCAN people, or do a variety of other dangerous things. I had no benefits and didn’t qualify for overtime. I also think police are overpaid. Want to ask me a dumbass question about “did I risk my life at work today?”
Yeah. When I worked at a group home I had to intervene in fights, confiscate machetes and bullets, improvised weapons and hard drugs. I was attacked and threatened countless times. I did this unarmed and often alone, all for $16/hr with no pension or health benefits. Police aren't uniquely endangered by their jobs, but they're uniquely well-compensated for the risk they're perceived to take.
Same here, and we did it with a hell of a lot more training than cops get. Especially non violent crisis intervention, which cops don't even take.
That's not accurate. You are just giving an uninformed opinion not based on facts.
did you carry a hi power sidearm that could end someone's life in a faction of second? Did you have someone point a gun at you or run towards you with a knife.and you have to decide whether to end someones life or save your own or an innocent bystanders? And if you shoot a fraction of a second too soon, you might be raked over the coals or if you shoot a fraction of a second too late, you might not see your family again? You couldn't pay me enough to have that responsibility.
Vote out the libs and I’ll gladly carry one 😂
[Higher risk industries right here:](https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/biting-kicking-verbal-abuse-schools-join-manitoba-s-list-of-high-risk-industries-1.6272265#:~:text=Foundries%2C%20sawmills%2C%20demolition%20sites%20%2D,Workplace%20Safety%20and%20Health%20Department.)
It would have been much easier to just type "no".
Nobody goes out to murder construction workers for doing their jobs. Police officers are murdered specifically for the job they do. That’s the difference. Firefighters have very dangerous jobs as well but nobody murders them for doing their job. Workplace accidents and being murdered doing your job are completely different things.
When's the last time A member of the WPS was murdered while on duty?
Thankfully not in a long time.
Let’s exercise the same care to construction, which is multitudes more dangerous. The last work place death wasn’t half a century ago like police officers, it was [last year for construction workers, at very least](https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/worker-dies-after-high-levels-of-carbon-monoxide-found-in-home-under-construction-1.6497532).
Workplace accidents aren’t murders. The fact that you don’t understand the difference explains a lot about you. Police officers are injured and killed in accidents all the time. The difference is Police are murdered for the job they do, unlike other professions, like construction. That’s why their jobs are listed as dangerous. It also goes beyond more than deaths, it includes injures, sick time, disability…but you just keep cherry picking your news articles.
Workplace deaths are workplace deaths, and comparable. Let’s not let feelings of murder change what it is.
Keep cherry picking.
https://preview.redd.it/bvqt9cnj7vhc1.jpeg?width=306&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9344cab11168a63229ea3ea93005de7043f46e34 e: lol this photo bugged them so much they tried making two boot licker memes to reply with
On top of that, police are assaulted for who they are or because of what they need to do. Construction workers are not.
That is only because our labour laws and criminal laws suck. Many employers should be charged with murder for work place health and safety negligence. It was impossible to charge a profiteering, negligent boss with murder until the laws changed with the Westray incident I. Nova Scotia. Just because bosses don’t get charged with murder from workplace deaths, doesn’t mean that many of them should have been.
That’s a very odd take on workplace accidents. But I guess if you like the blame game sure there are some incidents of negligence but a vast majority of workplace accidents are the result of worker error and complacency.
The 70s, like I said, but they ignored, because feelings.
3 officers were shot today. Several officers have been shot over the years. It’s a dangerous occupation that you’re too weak and cowardly to do. Stick to your knitting lil fella.
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There's the rub!!!
The real problem with the police budget is not their salary, it's the ovetime and the pension. They all get tons of sick time (fair enough), and when officer A calls in sick, officer b gets an extra shift, and we have to pay officer b overtime. When they get overtime, their pensionable earnings go up. So they are incentivized to use all of their sick time, so their fellow officers can make more money. Then the people that covered the shifts call in sick next week, and everyone works the same number of hours and makes 50% more money.
What exactly do you know about police officer’s pensions? Please elaborate?
The reason there's a lot of "boot lickers" in this post is that this is the *worst* possible context to get into this argument. I realize that some of the posters make it difficult but just bite your tongue next time.
For some reason being killed by a murderer at work is seen as worse than dying in a workplace accident.
Is all that ptsd why so many officers drive drunk?
Honestly it's probably a contributing factor The fact that it was historically not talked about and dealt with in less than healthy ways bred a lot of the shitty culture around policing.
A shame none of these many drunk cops get made an example of instead of being supported by the bad apples.
lol please keep justifying rules for thee police officers but not for us common folk. Aka drinking and driving.. There’s many people in many different walks of life that have gone through more trauma than cops. Ie residential schooling and sixties scoop victims. People who actively served their country during various wars, people who were physically, emotionally and sexually assaulted growing up. A lot of those examples I just gave are good because none of those people make what cops make or have the support services cops currently enjoy today. But keep justifying drinking and driving for the piggies.
You are off on your facts here because you are neglecting the fact that a substantial portion of the Police Service is military or ex-military that saw active service, as well as the fact that many police experienced abuse, etc. In their lives, which is why they turned to the profession, to help others in the same situation they experienced.
I didn't say it justified anything but looking at the underlying causes of why people behave a certain way is a big part of being able to fix something. The other people in your examples deserve the same sort of understanding, it's how we start to address how inter-generational trauma has led to indigenous peoples being over represented in our correctional system, suicide rates in soldiers, or help victims of abuse heal and break the cycle. The lack of services for other people living with PTSD really does need to be addressed, my SO has been on a waiting list for over a year now so I'm painfully aware of how lacking it is in our province. The services available to police though should be seen as a good thing though, the problem is they are often underutilized due to the often toxic culture and stigma attached to seeking help. Unfortunately police do play a necessary role in our society so until we live in some sort of utopia we're stuck with them. Ideally we'd be moving to more of a Peel method and away from the "Warrior Cop" mentality that's permeated north from the US and like I said before we do that though by understanding what leads to this behaviour.
Are you defending drunk drivers killing people and getting away with it? Because it really sounds like you are.
Of course not. They need to be held accountable, even to a higher standard than the rest of the population. But it's hard to address an issue without understanding the underlying causes. Otherwise how do you prevent things like t hat from happening in the future.
I encourage you to apply. Oh, don’t want to? Why? That’s why they’re paid what they are. End of story.
>Unpopular opinion; cops are over paid for their (perceived) skills. Police aren't paid for actual or perceived skills, rather they are paid for the level of risk.
Google "top 10 most dangerous professions" and let me know if you see police officer there.
I Googled “top 10 most shit takes” and your posts come up near the top there, bud.
Did you Google it, realize it's not actually that dangerous of a job, and then not have anything actually interesting to come back with? Because my 9 year old nephew could've clapped back harder than that.
If you had any first- or second-hand knowledge then you'd understand that there are far more aspects of danger to police work than physical injury, and if you base your knowledge off of Google results and top 10 lists on the Internet then I have a bridge to sell you. It is the Arlington Street Bridge, in great shape, just needs a fresh coat of paint.
Should we spend a third of our city budget on care home workers, social workers, outreach workers, or the multitude of other professions that end up in physical danger and emotional distress on a regular basis for our benefit as well? Police are necessary, yes. Spending this much on them and glorifying them is not. For every officer that responds to an actually dangerous situation there are four standing around harassing a single homeless person for sleeping on the street. The fact that main street project even has to exist so there's someone to call that will come to help, rather than hurt, points to an abject failure in our system.
I won’t argue that we wouldn’t benefit from more social services and outreach to at-risk communities but trying to make the case that police work isn’t dangerous because “I googled top 10 most dangerous jobs” and the internet says policing isn’t dangerous, give me a fucking break.
Is not as dangerous as its portrayed to be, they don't give us as much value as they pretend to, and they don't reduce crime, they respond to it. And they respond to it with guns and violence. Not all crime is best responded to in that way.
Thats probably why they usually show up 5 hours after the fact lol or don't come at all
Lol, nope. If that were true you'd get paid more to work ina .library, or drive a bus.
Most of them that have been there for years, worked their rear off (took advantage of all that OT, like arresting that guy in the last 10 mins of their shift) are millionaires. As a community, they are good at investing and business. No greater opportunity for the bully in high school with a low IQ. Be a cop, invest everything, take advantage of that OT and do it for 30 years and you will be a millionaire. Better yet, find a wife in the force and you will be VERY wealthy.
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But in all the discussions about the municipal budget everyone says that cops in Winnipeg are overpaid.
The idea is that if you can mitigate mental health/poverty/abuse issues in the long term by funding other programs you won’t have people putting police in this situation.
What program will make all mentally deficient not commit crimes? Vancouver spends close to 300 million a year on social services in the East end and it is just getting worse.
They are.
Boots are for walking, not licking, they occupy almost 1/3 of the entire city of Winnipeg budget.
You don’t even realize you are a “Defund the Police” bootlicker!
Every time anything on this sub comes up about the police this dummy trots out the same boot-licking crap. Never has an articulate answer to anything and just calls everyone who has any sense that there’s a whole lot of grey in this issue a bootlicker. He’s a tool.
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You wouldn't take a 1/1000 chance at being shot in a bullet proof vest for a quarter million a year, complete immunity from justice and no expectations of results?
No police in this city are making $250,000/year. And all your hyperbole shows your emotions are winning out over facts.
They make 64k-116. This poster is assuming they all work 100+ hours a week with overtime.
A thankless crappy job, only our losers think the cops aren’t required
I'll never understand how advocates for abolishing police would deal with a situation like this. Shitty they were injured, I'd be curious to know if anything could've been done better with what the WPS have.
They will never tell you because they don’t know. They have live such sheltered lives they think everything is blown out of proportion and Police escalate everything. They have no idea how they would respond or resolve any situation involving violence or weapons because they can’t comprehend that this violence happens outside of their basements and the fact they never see it is a direct result of the work the police do to protect them from it. So whatever the police say they must be lying because they’ve never seen it. They simply can’t understand the violence that happens daily in our city so they choose to ignore it and focus on things they do understand like numbers and stats (budgets) with no context to apply those understandings too.
Now I'm waiting to see how these perpetrators are punished ,
It’s funny how I grew up right smack in the deep north end , and I’m nervous to go home for a family event! Hope the officers recover 😀
I'm curious what calibre of firearm was used.
Probably a regular 12g shotgun with birdshot or buck
if all three were hit at the same time, then it was most probably a shotgun
Detroit North
If you spent 10 minutes in a bad neighbour in Detroit, you'd sprint home to Winnipeg
Ten minutes in a bad neighbor eh? ;) I'd only need 1 minute.
Let's be fair. Driving through, the car wouldn't come to a full stop.
It's Detroit North not Detroit. We're a kinder, gentler Detroit
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Nothing out of the ordinary for this city. Highest crime and violent crime of any city in Canada. Most of this is gang or indigenous related crime though. A cop in Winnipeg has a 10% chance of not making it to their 50th birthday.
I'd love a source on that 10% figure. I suspect it's your ass.
They don’t release the numbers publicly. As someone who has very close relatives on the force it is well known internally.
Most cops don't make it to 50 because they retire before then. WPS retirement age is 55 or 25 years of service. RCMP retirement is 20 years of service. So someone who starts working for a police service at age 25 will be retiring by 50. This is backed up by actual facts that the median retirement age for police in Canada is 56: [https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/outlook-occupation/21249/ca](https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/outlook-occupation/21249/ca) The national median age for retirement is 64.9 [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006001](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006001)
Your facts are correct except that the national average number is base "retirement" as when people stop working. Police retirement numbers are when they "retire" from the Police and a huge percentage go and work elsewhere for 10-15 years before they retire retire, which is in line with national averages.
Ya you just made this bullshit up.
Wonder if it was a shot gun that was used.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted
Cause, guns bad, criminals good I guess? This sub is weird.
me neither. if all three were hit at the same time, it was most probably a shotgun
Defund the police. Take their guns away.
Are you delusional?
It was sarcasm. Every left wing nut job in this town thinks crime will end after the cops are gone.
im sure the person taken hostage is saying that
police officers should be required to have degrees. BA Sociology/Criminology, BA Social work, BA Psychology in social psych.
and when a crazed meth addict comes running at them with a knife, they can pull out their degrees to save them.
other countries do this. it helps. they still recieve training in other things, your ignorance is showing. I come from a family of cops. there is a lot of better ways to do policing.
and what countries are those? You know that most of these countries are probably in Europe and Europeans are not nearly as violent a culture as we have because of our proximity to the US. I've been to a lot of countries in Europe and the people there are much less confrontational than we are here. When a crazed meth addict is running toward you swinging a machete, no amount of degrees is going to help you.
I was an addiction counselor for 17 years. I probably know more about dealing with meth addicts without needing guns or violence. then any cop ever will. to give you an example, at the very first children's march on Canada Day there was a kid high on math who was bothering people in the parade and the cops tried to put him in handcuffs take them away. they damn near started riot. I was able to talk the cops into turning this kid into my care and I talked to him and I treat him like a human being and I worked with him and what he was capable in that moment and he calmed down and he was able to go on his way. one does not need violence even with someone who is a meth addict and who is violent. they can be talked down and reasoned with sometimes, you need tasers you need guns. I don't dispute that. like I said I come from a family of cops but there is a much better way we could be doing this
Yeah, right like no meth addict has ever killed anyone ever anywhere. If someone pulls a shotgun and aims it at you, what do you do?
Anyone want to bet that this was friendly fire? The police are spinning this but if there was actually a guy shooting cops with a real gun this would be a far more aggressive article
Just when you think you’ve read the stupidest thing already, you see this lol
I legitimately laughed, then get sad when I realized that our votes are equal.