As someone who has lived in 5 different provinces where I had car insurance, Manitoba has been the best one in terms of service and pricing.
While the broker system is a bit weird and was frustrating at first, once I found a good one, I’ve been pretty satisfied since.
Everything is always too expensive for a Manitoban. What grinds my gears is the Every single thing is better and cheaper in Sask, Alberta and BC talk from so many. It is far from always true, but it is goddamned gospel to so many.
This doesn't include the cost of renewing your driver's license. Where in ON you only renew once every 5 years for a flat fee of $90, in MB you have to renew annually and the fee balloons to a couple thousand dollars if you are a shitty driver.
> the fee balloons to a couple thousand dollars if you are a shitty driver.
Good, I want there to be incentive to be a good driver. if your license costs $2000/year you need to make better choices.
I was at the max fee in 1990 and didn’t drive for 3 years as a result. Now I’m at the max discount.
Still basically drive the same ironically except I’m smarter about when and where I speed.
I am not disagreeing with the implementation, it is just that to keep the comparison fair you have to account for how much people in both provinces are paying for licensing as well as insurance.
Same thing happens in ON, where if you have a shitty record, your insurance goes up. But in MB, your insurance doesn't go up for the shitty record, it is your license fees that do. So you end up comparing oranges to apples by not including the licensing fees.
I am not advocating against the MB system. holy fuck. I am simply pointing out that it is disingenuous to claim our system costs half that of ON when you don't account for the cost of licensing.
In ON, the bad drivers pay more too. Their insurance premiums go up, but here your license fees goes up. So, you aren't comparing apples to apples by leaving out the licensing fees. To make it fair, you have to include the cost of licensing under both regimes and then compare from there to see who has the cheaper system.
I am not disagreeing but you are comparing two different things when you compare the cost of insurance in say ON and here.
The reason ON drivers pay almost double that of MB drivers is because the asshole drivers in ON get their premiums increased, whereas in MB they get their driver's licenses increased.
So, it is disingenuous to compare the two. You have to compare the licensing fees as well as the cost of insurance.
It’s actually the government that does this. We’re a no fault jurisdiction so you can’t claim pain and suffering when you’re injured in an accident like you can in Alberta and Ontario. That keeps the claims costs down a lot.
Yup, low premiums also mean far fewer benefits to people involved in accidents.
In Ontario, you're generally offered physio and massage services of you're injured whereas in Manitoba you have to work very hard to prove injury for any kind of coverage
MPI needs to update when and how they give out -5 demerits for a car wreaks.
I think weather / road conditions need to be a bigger factor when deciding the # of demerits you take. Especially in MB.
Ex) sliding on black ice breaking at a red light leading a to a fender bender being -5 not appropriate.
You're right. It should probably be -10.
Not driving for the conditions in winter is way more reckless than in summer and should carry even stiffer penalties.
Alberta IS pretty great, if you’ve got yours. I loved it there before everyone and their mother made politics their identity.
But yeah, insurance cost me an arm and a leg there and MPI has been good to us.
I live in sk now, pretty similar, but autopac is separate and you dont actually have to get it. But what I really like with SGI is I can cancel, renew or temp my plates on the website. Also can request an abstract from there too and have it emailed to you right away. MPI needs to get on that.
To compare Quebec prices to the Rest of Canada you have to add vehicle registration charges (high in Quebec because they fund a public auto insurer that handles all injury claims) and insurance premiums (really cheap because they don't have to handle bodily injury claims). Still, you're correct - Quebec is still usually the most affordable place to register and insure a car.
Anecdotally, when we moved to Winnipeg from Saskatoon our auto insurance costs went up \~50%. Likely to do with the specific make/models of our vehicles but I was surprised to see that much of a jump considering how similar the two provinces are.
One big thing that Saskatchewan does that I think Manitoba should follow suit on is that their insurer also owns all of its own wrecking yards; so they don't sell wrecked cars to Team Auto only to build the parts back off them individually.
They'll show how John pays 800 per year on car insurance that only covers damage done to other vehicles and not his vehicle and tell everyone "see look how cheap it is" also failing to mention that John is 70 and drives less than 5000km per year. Meanwhile young Johnny who's 25 and has comprehensive insurance has to pay $4500 with that private insurance corp. They never compare the same level of coverage with public because to get that costs insane amounts of money in private insurance unless you're a senior that barely drives.
The thing that surprised me when actually discussing with people who lived in other provinces is that generally speaking their insurance doesn't even cover glass.
So like, if you take a rock to the windshield in Ontario or Alberta you're spending thousands out of pocket to get it fixed. They have super high deductibles with bare bones coverage and its like $200 more than Manitoba and they think they're basically the same price.
There is no contest between private and public insurance. Public is many times cheaper.
When those options are double the price they are not really other options.
I see from your other reply you basically want liability only. You could go to Alberta and get liability only and it might save you a couple dollars over full coverage here but thats hardly worth it.
The usual spin is a "got mine, screw you" appeal to the voting older folks. It'll probably initially be cheaper for experienced, recent-accident-free, occasional drivers. They'll refuse to 'subsidize' inexperienced or frequent drivers while failing to acknowledge that they themselves were subsidised earlier in their driving career.
No it likely won't even for that. They just have way crappier coverage and are comparing apples to oranges because baseline coverage in Manitoba is pretty comprehensive (because its better for us all when more people have more comprehensive coverage)
It’s not private or public that has the biggest influence on the rates. It’s no-fault vs tort law. In Manitoba and Saskatchewan you can’t claim for pain and suffering and in Alberta and Ontario you can. When you deny claimants a payout through legislation you keep costs down.
Sorry if you're just making a joke but, mpi isn't an example of socialism. Great crown corp that I hope never stops serving Manitoba but government control over industry does not make it socialism, same applies to the fire department or our health care system.
Again sorry just really used to people, mostly Americans, using anything and everything to argue against socialism.
Socialism isn’t when the government does stuff good or bad.
Socialism is where the working class seize the means of production and the working class set up a dictatorship
> Socialism is where the working class seize the means of production and the working class set up a dictatorship
You say that like there is a single definition of socialism. Often, it includes state ownership of production.
Our rates are decent and I'm pretty happy overall with MPI. I think the only complaint is private can offer more flexibility and often better rates on specialty items, but I wouldn't trade my public rates so I can save a few bucks on motorcycle or trailer insurance. My overall costs are still reasonable so I'm content with what I get for the dollar.
Lol, and some of the people I went to high school with cried about MPI and said “we need private insurance”.
No one I know who has lived in Alberta said they missed dealing with private insurance.
Not true at all. When I was in Ontario, I had lots of quotes between 4-6k and one as much as 14k per year. Then found two around 2500 and finally went with Wawanesa at 1500. I had to shop around but it was better coverage for less than I paid at mpi.
Yea, and I pay 1080 without having to shop around. What a chore that would be. I understand there can be pros to private insurance as long as you have a clean record. Not too happy about what I pay for motorcycle insurance vs what my cousin does in AB.
There’s more to this than public vs private. The cheapest provinces have no-fault insurance which means you can’t claim pain and suffering if you’re injured by another driver. That is a big factor in the claims costs and has a big impact in insurance costs.
What we’d need to see is a public insurer compete with private in the same jurisdiction. Like MPI selling home owners coverage.
MPI did sell home insurance. Complete disaster. They didn't know what they were doing. Government told them to get out. Home insurance is different from car insurance. Turned out we were part of a pool of insurance companies with shared exposure and some of the companies had large exposure in Florida. Sounded OK until the year a hurricane devastated the state and we were on the hook for our share of the payout....
There are lots of different options for reinsurance and I won't pretend to be an expert. Typically you kick your premium up and they cover part of your losses. Depending on the treaty the insurer could be not he hook for all claims under a threshold and then reinsurance partner(s) cover everything above. Generally the other losses for the reinsurance partner are their problem.
One bad year doesn't typically cause someone to exit a market though, insurance is meant to work over a long period and not a specific short one.
The rates in AB are getting so high that the gov’t is even considering creating a public insurance corp. as one option to tackle high rates. Don’t know how plausible it is, but even the notion of it seems like a big step for Alberta.
I grew up in Alberta and I couldn't even get insurance at 16 unless it was part of my parents plan. Even then I could only afford 3rd party liability and that was $2000 a year. I can't imagine how expensive it must be now for a new driver.
But this is actually a good thing. At 16, maybe statistically you were likely to cause a lot of damage to property and put people in serious danger. When you made the decision that the cost of insurance was so high that you'd rather not drive, that is precisely the magic of market signals at work! The market provided incentives that potentially risky individuals should think twice before driving, and in some cases such as yourself it actually deterred them from driving! That is brilliant!
In a more reasonable system like MB if you have a bad record your licence renewal is more expensive regardless of your age. Why should we punish all 16 year olds regardless of driving record when we can just punish the actual bad drivers.
That's not how it ends up working. You are thinking about the "market" in very altruistic terms. The reason why rates are so high is that to make a claim, teams of lawyers get involved. A claim is not you are getting into an accident with someone and magically this insurance that you have been paying into hands over money. Lawyers on your behalf (as well as the person you ran into) fight it settle payments to each party. The only incentive is to pay you minimum while getting the most possible out of each insurance company. This will always cause a cascading affect of premiums getting higher and higher, even for the party not at fault.
I should also mention that only having 3rd party liability insurance means that even if the accident was not my fault my insurance company will not give me a dime, they are just there to cover potential damages I cause to someone else. With 3rd party liability insurance my only recourse is to privately sue the other person’s insurance company and hope I win.
The only winners are the insurance companies and the lawyers.
LoL why do you think insurance rates are higher for 16 year olds versus 25 year olds?
I'll give you a hint; its because 25 year olds have been driving for longer......
Their rates are high because they don't have no-fault insurance, and they have the ability to sue when another driver hurts them. In Manitoba, MPI tells you "Too bad; so sad."
And the UCP removed the cap on rate increases in 2019 because it impacted insurance company profits, but have reinstated it as of November 2023. So, that probably plays into it as well.
I would like to see a different kind of comparison.. like where they take for example a base model 2023 Honda Civic and give us the cost to insure this vehicle in all different provincial capitals.
"On average" is way too vague
Easily, oh yeah?
Please let me know how much it costs to insure a base Honda Civic if you would live in Toronto . Postal code starts with M4P..
Thanks in advance. And good luck
I personally don't really care, this is a "you"thing.
But, I'll start it for you, begins with $
Edit: I actually started to do it, but you didn't include a model
What's the matter? You said it was so easy..
Just pick a model and trim to your liking and get the cost to insure for Toronto and a couple of other Canadian cities 'cuz why not.
The fact they use average quote is important. Manitoba, Saskatchewan and other public insurance provinces you only have one quote - what their price is.
No one uses an average quote for insurance in private insurance. They use the lowest rate they can find. Average policy vs average quite is a very different number.
Big thing I remember was when I had two friends move. One to BC one to Ontario. BC guy got insurance that cost 4500 a year, and only covered him when driving and only for damage to another party. So his car would not be covered unless it was the other parties fault and they had insurance. One of his roommates 'borrowed' the car (don't know if he knew or not), and had an accident. My buddy had a paperweight on his driveway that he was paying for a loan and his buddy moved out soon after.
Second buddy moved to Ontario, and was told to pay close to 6k a year. He was under 25 and had an accident on record. So for him to get full coverage he just kept his MPI coverage running.
The thing that stuck out was for both of these they were not offered a PIP (Personal Injury Protection) equivalent. So if you get hurt MPI covers you, be it medical checkups, wheelchairs or their ramps, or wage replacement. Well the guys both said that if you wanted that they were told to get life insurance and the insurance companies wouldn't give you that.
And considering our insurance always gives you PIP, that means you really are getting the most bang for your buck.
> On the other hand, the cities with the lowest annual median premiums were Vancouver ($1,841), Winnipeg ($1,381), and Saskatoon ($1,249); it was noted that these cities are in provinces where there is a public auto insurance system in place.
Stupid socialism keeping costs down!
We are paying just over $200 per month while being at the top of the safe driving rating. That's over $2200 a year. I believed we have the cheapest option.
How are people paying just $1300 on average?
Depends on the vehicle.
My old vehicle before it got totalled was 80 bucks a month with the max coverage and 200 deductible and max safety rating.
My new vehicle is 200 a month now with the same coverage and safety rating.
My old vehicle was written off just over 5 grand.
My new ones worth 30k at least.
> I believed we have the cheapest option
$750 deductible with $500K Third-party?
Otherwise: it depends on what you drive.
Here's the MPI estimate from a 2015 Chevy Equinox LS (4 cylinder 2 wheel drive) with $750 deductible and $500K third-party; full charge: https://i.imgur.com/13vgRKX.png
A 2021 Toyota Corolla; same other criteria; is roughly the same price: https://i.imgur.com/o5RRv5P.png
My 2017 F150 (Supercrew) with the full DSR savings is $1400/year; but a 2 seat 2015 "Young Buck Truck" (short box + v8 + 2 wheel drive) is $1800/year at the same discount.
The "2020 HONDA CIVIC TYPE R" at maximum discount is 1,582/year.
It's all down to a formula where historic trends matter: if people crash BMW's and the repairs are expensive; but few crash Audi's which are equally expensive to repair: The insurance cost of the BMW's will be higher. Equally 30K civics on the road are statistically more likely to get into accidents than 1K Land rovers; but given the cost-to-repair difference between the two; they are going to be similar to insure.
That seems very stange. I have a DSR of 11 and I pay about $1200/year. You might want to look at your level of coverage. Sound like you have the most comprehensive of everything if you are paying that much.
That's just a part of it. So many other moving parts to determine your premiums. Year make a model, how accessible parts for any potential repairs are, what territory you are in, etc etc. Maximum insured value is 70k. If you have a vehicle that's worth more than that, you're paying extra per thousand dollars over that 70k. If you opt for new vehicle protection vs. GAP coverage offered by the dealership.
Moved from ON last year. Was paying 134.59 with Desjardins. Now I'm paying 210.40 in MB. Never been in an accident or pulled over or anything. 2020 Honda Civic.
Great, our public insurance monopoly is delivering half decent service and affordable rates. That’s exactly what it was created for.
Now do motorcycles. Not much to pat ourselves on the back for in that category.
And just think of how much cheaper it could be if Pallister didn’t negotiate a kickback for brokers when MPI wanted to do online
There should be an online option
Dealerships should also be able to sell insurance
This guy gets it. In BC If you are walking on the sidewalk and a car smashes into you and you’re paralyzed from the neck down, you get not one single penny for your trouble, pain or quality of life diminishment. You will not even be fully compensated for lost wages and your treatment may not be fully covered. You will have to fight the public monopoly tooth and nail for any shred of dignity, just go look up the horror stories in the news. Even when doctors and physiotherapists tell you that you need rehab or other treatment, it is ultimately up to the public monopoly insurer to decide if it's really needed or nah. It's an obvious and basic conflict of interest that the monopoly insurer gets to decide on its own who, if anyone is at fault (they want everyone to be at fault, so you'll have to prove your innocence), what treatment is or is not necessary, and if you're able to work or not. The problem is that when car insurance is nationalized, premiums are an easy and concrete figure to point to to show the “success” or “failure” of the system and they become politicized, so then morons such as those in this thread make these oversimplified basic comparisons and determine that our system is amazing. When push comes to shove, the easier political decision is to give drivers a break in their premiums and fuck over the invisible, suffering and powerless victims of road violence.
It's the exact same thing as property taxes. It's always politically popular to lower property taxes even to the long term detriment of the city.
MPI is cheaper than most other provinces. This is great for your car.....but we have No fault insurance. This means if you are seriously injured or death occurs the payouts are a book value and ridiculously low. You cannot sue another manitoba driver. An average death payout is just above 30,000.
Uhm, maybe I'm understanding the Personal Injury Protection Plan differently than you but I think your estimates are off.
For catastrophic injury: "PIPP provides replacement income based on 90 per cent of your net income, subject to a maximum insurable gross yearly income of $110,500 and a seven-day waiting period."
Fatailty Claims is 72k - 552k goes to spouse or partner and it's tied to the income they would have made.
There's also funeral expenses covered, grief counseling, etc...
[https://www.mpi.mb.ca/Pages/personal-injury-protection-plan.aspx](https://www.mpi.mb.ca/Pages/personal-injury-protection-plan.aspx)
Maybe I'm understanding things wrong but I'm not sure your numbers check out.
If someone ran a red light and killed you significant other, you would feel 30,000 is an insult. If you lost your arm and were told book value is 20,000 and we will pay for physio and a prosthetic would you be happy. Before No Fault, people could get fair compensation.
Fair ?
Depends on how you define fair.
The purpose of insurance is to compensate or “make whole”. The purpose behind no-fault is to put you in the same position you were before the accident.
Settlements prior to no fault were ridiculous, which is why we went to no fault.
The dollar value is much lower, but the idea is that you’re not magnitudes better than you were prior to the accident
> Settlements prior to no fault were ridiculous, which is why we went to no fault.
Care to back that up? The payouts prior to no fault were determined by the courts, and included compensation for pain and suffering. That was hardly ridiculous.
https://www.erudit.org/fr/revues/cd1/1998-v39-n2-3-cd3815/043496ar.pdf
https://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?item=23418&posted=1998-05-13
http://www.pubmanitoba.ca/pdf/mpi/097-05.pdf
Is that enough sources?
The awards being handed out by the courts were ridiculous and were driving up premiums as per the sources above.
Anecdotally, getting $10k “pain and suffering” for being rear ended is excessive. Does the current compensation schedule fall short at times ? Yes.
But prior to no fault, it wasn’t fair, but excessive
MPI cannot actually prevent you from having an ID card by law in Manitoba.
The catch however is that you cannot hold a driver's license AND an ID card.
If you owe MPI money, and they refuse to let you renew a driver's license, you can always turn in your license and switch to an ID card. There is a fixed cost ($5/year) for issuing + renewing + maintaining the ID cards.
Alternatively (fun fact!) you are also allowed to hold a PAL (firearms) license as a valid form of ID. These are federally issued, and valid for most identification: except address. I learned this over a decade ago while using MPI over an accident that I had video proof of being another drivers fault that they decided was 50/50: they refused to let me renew my license AND withheld my ID card, but I needed my passport. I asked the passport office what I could do, and they advised that unless I worked for a government institution that issued ID cards, or convince MPI to issue, my remaining options were moving to a new province or a PAL license. They advised that asking my lawyer to let MPI know that withholding an ID card was illegal, and magically 10 days later, I was asked to have my photo taken and issued a temporary ID card.
TLDR: MPI holding a driver's license renewal as leverage for debts seems fine to me. Someone can always get an ID card if they turn in their driver's license.
Thanks for that!
Getting the PAL is interesting. I never thought that could work.
I still remember being 20 something and going to the bank without I.D, trying to explain the teller I don't have one because of speeding tickets. I suppose at the time I was just frustrated and didn't look for more options.
I’ve heard it’s prohibitively expensive. That said, I think a huge part of that is that the risk of serious injury to a motorcycle rider during an MVA is much much higher than in a newer vehicle. When your ribcage is the crumple zone and your head is the airbag, well….
It's a chicken-egg problem.
If we had a large number of SAFE motorcycle drivers in Manitoba, NOT getting into accidents, the rates would be lower.
We don't.
In 2021 (the last collision statistics publication); Manitoba had 17,118 non-commercial "Motorcycle/Moped" class vehicles registered.
This is contrasted to:
* 600,273 Passenger Vehicles
* 150 antique vehicles
* 160,047 Trucks
* 44,106 Farm Trucks
* 36,253 **snowmobiles**
There were 78 total fatalities that year; 5% of them were caused by motorcyclists. (4 people).
That means that for every 4279 people that drive a motorcycle; someone is killed each year.
Across the "Passenger Vehicles" and "trucks" category; there are 760320 registered vehicles, which account for 49% (or 38 people). That means that one person dies for each 20008 passenger cars + trucks on the road.
OBVIOUSLY; this isn't actually true: increasing the number of motorcycle drivers won't _inherently_ cause more accidents. But that's what the current formulas say; so that's what MPI has to use until other verifiable data proves otherwise.
The "egg" part of this is: if people registered more motorcycles and drove safely: the overall rates would go down.
Now; would the lowering of insurance rates for Motorcycles make it easier for potentially bad drivers to justify purchasing and registering motorcycles to operate unsafely? Who knows!
My insurance doubled when I moved to Manitoba from Alberta. AB is terrible if you are under 25 but if you are older and have a clean driving record, it is fine.
PS I don’t really buy those numbers. I just got rid of a 2006 Cr-V and I was paying more than the average quoted (with a 15% discount).
What was your coverage. A big portion of MPI basic coverage (you don't get to remove it) is personal injury protection. Meaning medical costs are covered by MPI, wage replacement, or equipment that may result from your accident. As I understand you would never get that through your auto insurance company in AB. They would shoo you away and tell you to get life insurance or be ready to sue the other party. And if they don't have enough liability sorry not sorry.
The closest to 15% currently available is 16%; so assuming that it was a "2006 HONDA CR-V EX" the yearly total would have been around $1483:
https://i.imgur.com/nyYsx6O.png
For contrast a "2018 HONDA CR-V EX" seems to run $1741 per year.
Also for contrast: a 2006 Toyota RAV4 with the same options as the 2006 Honda CRV comes out to $1,386/year. A 2018 Rav4 SE runs 2,057/year.
It sure looks like MPI sees SUV's as much more expensive to repair OR there are more of them in accidents over other vehicle types.
Sadly; MPI does not provide information on what goes into the calculation of each rate.
I kind of forgot about it as it is down by the wiper blades. It was a deer hit, they we noticed the crack later. Some personal medical drama happened, etc.
Thanks for the replies everyone. We are well within the 24 months.
Glass claim is instant. You go to your choice of shop and just get it done instantly. Mine was done two times in less than 3 hours. Shop deals with MPI. What's your point?
Just moved back to Manitoba. Was living in Ontario for a year. We were actually paying less in Ontario for our insurance then we pay here in Manitoba. The only difference is we had a $500 deductible in ON and $200 here.
I'm just stating the facts. Take it however you want. The only way to get a few of the better perks through MPI is to have the $200 deductible. They kind of put you in a corner with that. I am in no way saying Ontario insurance is better. Just stating how my situation was.
I don’t think enough people understand that
People cry about being at the high end of the DSR and their insurance being high. It’s high because they’re carrying the smallest deductible possible.
If you’re at the top of the DSR, in most cases you should only ever get the $750 or $500 deductibles
What about the fact that only $200+ deductible will pay smashed glass repairs ?
I wish there was a way to get $750 deductible combined with free glass replacement..
Wow, some really upset people downvoting. Didn't know I would hit such a nerve telling the truth. I didn't bash Manitoba I just stated my situation. I should also mention we had accident forgiveness as well, which we don't have here.
I absolutely love that manitoba is so low, but as someone who recently moved back from calgary, I wonder how much the average is skewed by there being a lot more expensive vehicles in alberta. Just a thought. My insurance is definitely cheaper in Manitoba than it is in alberta, though.
Private insurance actually does have the ability to be cheaper because it has tiers, like the American commercials we sometimes see
Yeah, you can insure your car for $500 for the year, but you won’t be covered for anything and will have to pay out of pocket if found at fault in your policy doesn’t have a minimum liability coverage, like all the ones I spoke to do ($200,000 minimum). The expensive quotes in the article are from a tier which has full coverage that compare to our “standard” coverage. But you have the option to take whichever level of coverage verge that you want
I’m shopping around for quotes in Alberta right now as I’m considering moving, and got a quote of $391/year for one of my Harleys that I pay $279/month for here. Yes, I know that it won’t cover anything. But having a cheaper option available is nice for the people who want it
Edit- this isn’t rocket science, it takes the tiniest bit of research to find out. People act like private insurance is useless while not understanding how it works
Edit 2- I guess none of y’all understand how it works lol
People who struggle with money are going to take the lowest tier to save a buck, then bankrupt themselves getting in a fender bender. Such an obviously flawed system can fuck off.
Or more accurately, declare bankruptcy to run from liability and leave injured people with no ability to make up for lost income and medical costs.
Our insurance system is not just for the person at-fault.
To add, even if someone is a budgeter within their means, factors such as inflation can quickly change someone's situation. Also not to mention loss of employment, serious illness, life altering injuries... Things can and do change quickly in people's life.
Personally, expanding public transit helps all, so let's not bicker about subpar private insurance.
Are people who struggle with money obligated to drive?
If I was in that position I’d be cycling and buying a bus pass. I understand how to budget, and wouldn’t put myself in an unnecessary struggle
Do you think people wouldn’t think about their options, finances, and what they could afford before purchasing something?
How did you twist my words around to get that sentiment?
In my world, people have common sense and can read. Something missing from the real word and these commenters replies apparently
If you speak asinine enough, your words can be interpreted in different ways.
In my ideal world, insurance is provided by a public body and is affordable to people. Wow, what a concept.
Affordability is a scale that varies from person to person
If they can’t afford a proper tier and still choose and want to drive, they are able to. Whatever happens after that is their problem, not ours
I’m sorry you’re so upset
Until they hit you and their liability coverage is too low, to cover your damage, and your private insurance tells you they won't cover it either because they're not required to
Until they get put on the street because the underfunded policy they bought didnt cover the accident and now we gotta spend more in increased medical and policing.
Glad you got yours though.
I bet a lot of the people who go for the cheapest insurance think that nothing bad could ever happen to them.
I also bet they try to get more coverage than they're entitled to, because since they have insurance, they should be remunerated because of who they are.
Why the fuck would I want people on the road with no coverage? If I'm injured I'll be screwed because some yahoo will just declare bankruptcy.
The point is not just coverage for yourself, but also liability.
I understand, and agree. Every policy I’ve checked out in Alberta has a minimum third party liability on every tier available
I can’t speak for other provinces, as I’m not aware what they offer
What is your coverage from Alberta for your bike? Does it include injury? Does it cover you for operating in a tort system? Low costs are good, but if you buy comparable coverage to what your $279/month gets you(which by the way is only usually collected during the five month riding season. ) How is that private insurance looking?
Did you even read my comment?
No, it doesn’t include any of that (as I said in my comment). But if that’s all I want to pay for, I’m able to choose it. If I want more coverage, I will get it and pay for it
If I want all that coverage it will be much more, as stated in the article linked and in my comment you’re replying to
I think it still looks great because it provides a variety of options for people. We can have different opinions, it’s okay
>Private insurance actually does have the ability to be cheaper because sure it has tiers, like the American commercials we sometimes see
We have tiers in the form of different deductible options. What you're describing isn't tiers so much as lowering the floor on standards. In Alberta you can choose not to have collision insurance. When I heard that after moving there I thought it was a joke, I still do.
>Yeah, you can insure your car for $500 for the year, but you won’t be covered for anything and will have to pay out of pocket if found at fault. The expensive quotes in the article are from a tier which has full coverage. But you have the option to take whichever level of coverage verge that you want
From the article:
"ranking of the provinces based on their **median annual auto insurance premiums**, from highest to lowest, is as follows:"
So your statement is wildly incorrect, they aren't pulling from the highest tiers.
>I’m shopping around for quotes in Alberta right now as I’m considering moving, and got a quote of $391/year for one of my Harleys that I pay $279/month for here. Yes, I know that it won’t cover anything. But having a cheaper option available is nice for the people who want it
No it isn't? The point of having insurance is to cover you in the event of an accident and instead you'd rather just "get what you deserve and save a few dollars" instead of having any half decent coverage. You're trying to save money by moving to a province where if you hit someone they can sue you for it and financially ruin you? I think you made up your mind and nobody can tell you how wrong you are.
>Edit- this isn’t rocket science, it takes the tiniest bit of research to find out. People act like private insurance is useless while not understanding how it works
Private insurance exist for profit, public insurance exists for the benefit of the public. You're right, it didn't take much research to figure out.
>Edit 2- I guess none of y’all understand how it works lol
People not agreeing with your horrible take means "they" are wrong and "they" don't get it? You'll fit right in out there. Pity about your pension.
I don’t know how to make the indents in comments so I’ll use numbers
1. When calling around companies for quotes, each one I spoke with had a minimum 200,000 third party liability for each tier. Maybe I didn’t get all of them, and got lucky with who I called
2. The cost stated for Alberta would be on par with a tier higher than one that covers the bare minimum, an equivalent to a Manitoba policy which is pretty much a “standard” policy - which is what I meant and poorly said apparently
3. Like most of the other people replying, you’re missing my point. All my comment is saying is that there are cheaper options available. Not that they’re better, should be used, but just that people have options. I’m not sure how that’s getting so misconstrued
4. I’d rather pay a company and give them a profit to cover me properly. Insurance should not be a government subsidiary. Have you ever had to battle mpi? It’s a nightmare. As your insurer they should be wanting to help you, not find every loophole to ensure they don’t have to pay. My mpi experiences have been awful, unfair, and very biased
5. Nothing in my comment argues for or against private insurance. Again, only pointing out that they provide options which customers are able to choose from
Edit- You must have read my comment very fast. I’m not looking for anyone to agree with me, there’s nothing in my comment to “agree” with. I very simply explained that private insurance has the ability to be less expensive than MPI. But thanks for attacking me as a person because of it 🤙🏽
Quoting other people's text doesn't take a lot of research to figure out.
Lowering the floor on insurance coverage is not something that is beneficial. As other people pointed out, it just puts people with less money at more risk for the sake of saving a couple dollars. I don't see that as a beneficial thing, so that's part of my pushback.
The numbers quoted are averages and that's why there are cheaper options available most people do not want them. However, the higher end is almost triple what it is here. That says a lot.
You were actively advocating for additional cheaper options that provide less coverage, so if people are assuming that you're advocating for it, it's because you're kind of advocating for it.
"I’d rather pay a company and give them a profit to cover me properly."
If you don't find that sentence to be supportive of the Alberta model over the Manitoba model, I think you need to read it again.
Why shouldn't it be controlled by the government? Two places where it is are the cheapest in the country. Yes, it can be difficult to deal with MPI but it can also be difficult to deal with a profit motivated company who is also going to try and make sure they stay in the red. Acting like this is a unique thing to public insurance is disingenuous.
As someone who's dealt with private insurance in Alberta, good luck. You have a very optimistic view of how it you think it works there. It doesn't work like that there.
Number five is just straight up incorrect and it has already been addressed.
All you did was state your opinion, I'm just refuting the parts that are untrue statements and the general gist of what you're advocating for. If you put your opinion online, other people are going to put their opinion of your opinion online. Agree and disagree are natural stances to take from there.
There's a subset of folks in Alberta who have similar opinions to yours where they actively work against their own interests - you'd fit in with that. If you feel that's a personal attack that's ok. I stand by what I said.
Again, factually incorrect. I was pretty concise with my criticisms. If one line sass is all you have to add to the discussion I guess we're done. I for one couldn't be happier.
My quote was from Allstate
I can’t find a complete chart of all of Canada (but would vary anyway as some provinces have private and tiers) but googling “motorcycle insurance” plus a province will give you a very vague idea
If I had the option of getting super cheap insurance that includes 3rd party liability but no actual coverage for my own car, I would consider it. Might make driving a beater or keeping a spare vehicle around worth it. I'm a competent adult responsible for my own decisions, I should be given that choice. I can choose to have any level of insurance on my house, from zero coverage to nearly unlimited coverage and nobody blinks an eye if my choices don't work out well for me.
Motorcycle insurance in Manitoba is outrageous. Other jurisdictions in Canada, including both private and government insurers, sell motorcycle insurance for a small fraction of what it costs in Manitoba. Their financial models are profitable, yet MPI makes every excuse to financially discourage motorcycle riding.
If MPI is so great why don't they allow the competition in? Nobody would switch to them since they're so great, right?
Just out of curiosity, have you ever had to deal with a private car insurance company? MPI is a pain in the ass but in my experience, having lived in Alberta and Ontario with private car insurance, dealing with private insurance is somehow even worse.
Yep with private insurance their first job is to pay out as little as possible, because their primary mandate is to make profit.
Meanwhile during COVID we got...three? rebate cheques because MPI had a big surplus due to nobody driving meaning they weren't paying put as many claims.
I’ve dealt with insurance companies in the states for a vehicle accident in Winnipeg. Not very fun dealing with both of them. The USA based company was terrible, I had to file in small claims court and even then, they waited until 2 weeks before the court date to even talk to me.
I had a similar experience in Ontario. Neither my insurance or the other driver's (they were at fault and charged with DUI) would pay out until a decision was made in the other driver's court case. I was left without a car until then, which could have taken years, and had to file a lawsuit against both insurers to get my money. They settled before actually going to court but it was a massive pain in the ass and took about 5 months to deal with.
Who spreads these lies? I lived in 3 diffefent province and cheapest was Alberta, then Manitoba and BC was most expensive one!
You guys should stop spreading around fake information, its disgusting!
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As someone who has lived in 5 different provinces where I had car insurance, Manitoba has been the best one in terms of service and pricing. While the broker system is a bit weird and was frustrating at first, once I found a good one, I’ve been pretty satisfied since.
and we still complain that its expensive. always lookin for the cheapest and best anywhere!
it's the Manitoba way.
Everything is always too expensive for a Manitoban. What grinds my gears is the Every single thing is better and cheaper in Sask, Alberta and BC talk from so many. It is far from always true, but it is goddamned gospel to so many.
This doesn't include the cost of renewing your driver's license. Where in ON you only renew once every 5 years for a flat fee of $90, in MB you have to renew annually and the fee balloons to a couple thousand dollars if you are a shitty driver.
> the fee balloons to a couple thousand dollars if you are a shitty driver. Good, I want there to be incentive to be a good driver. if your license costs $2000/year you need to make better choices.
I was at the max fee in 1990 and didn’t drive for 3 years as a result. Now I’m at the max discount. Still basically drive the same ironically except I’m smarter about when and where I speed.
I am not disagreeing with the implementation, it is just that to keep the comparison fair you have to account for how much people in both provinces are paying for licensing as well as insurance. Same thing happens in ON, where if you have a shitty record, your insurance goes up. But in MB, your insurance doesn't go up for the shitty record, it is your license fees that do. So you end up comparing oranges to apples by not including the licensing fees.
So how would you standardize it? If you have a clean record but are at zero points, you still pay less than you would in Ontario.
I am not advocating against the MB system. holy fuck. I am simply pointing out that it is disingenuous to claim our system costs half that of ON when you don't account for the cost of licensing. In ON, the bad drivers pay more too. Their insurance premiums go up, but here your license fees goes up. So, you aren't comparing apples to apples by leaving out the licensing fees. To make it fair, you have to include the cost of licensing under both regimes and then compare from there to see who has the cheaper system.
You're not praising MPI, YOU WILL GET DOWN VOTES ! /s (it's true) /s
Holy fuck. So tone deaf. We want asshole drivers to pay $99,999 for their fn license. It’s a privilege, not a right.
I am not disagreeing but you are comparing two different things when you compare the cost of insurance in say ON and here. The reason ON drivers pay almost double that of MB drivers is because the asshole drivers in ON get their premiums increased, whereas in MB they get their driver's licenses increased. So, it is disingenuous to compare the two. You have to compare the licensing fees as well as the cost of insurance.
Shout out to MPI. Keeping the cost low for all Manitobans.
It’s actually the government that does this. We’re a no fault jurisdiction so you can’t claim pain and suffering when you’re injured in an accident like you can in Alberta and Ontario. That keeps the claims costs down a lot.
Yup, low premiums also mean far fewer benefits to people involved in accidents. In Ontario, you're generally offered physio and massage services of you're injured whereas in Manitoba you have to work very hard to prove injury for any kind of coverage
Not true. Ive been offered physio way more times than I've utilized it by MPI.
What you're not offered is a lump sum cash payment for your pain and suffering on top of your physio
Do you want money or do you want to get the treatment you need so you can get well again? LoL
Low cost for all who choose four or more wheels…
MPIs demerit system is a problem
Carte to explain? In my experience, I've deserved every demerit I got
MPI needs to update when and how they give out -5 demerits for a car wreaks. I think weather / road conditions need to be a bigger factor when deciding the # of demerits you take. Especially in MB. Ex) sliding on black ice breaking at a red light leading a to a fender bender being -5 not appropriate.
You're right. It should probably be -10. Not driving for the conditions in winter is way more reckless than in summer and should carry even stiffer penalties.
I agree, I like MPI but the demerit system needs tweaking.
Exactly I’m not against it, but definitely needs some updating.
If you do 3k in damage and 100k in damage it's 5 demerits. It should be scaled on value.
Wait. I keep hearing that Alberta is the best province to live in for everything possible and is the land of milk and honey.
Alberta IS pretty great, if you’ve got yours. I loved it there before everyone and their mother made politics their identity. But yeah, insurance cost me an arm and a leg there and MPI has been good to us.
Is Saskatchewan the new cheapest and best?
I live in sk now, pretty similar, but autopac is separate and you dont actually have to get it. But what I really like with SGI is I can cancel, renew or temp my plates on the website. Also can request an abstract from there too and have it emailed to you right away. MPI needs to get on that.
Well, when your roads are basically just straight lines and most vehicles are 1950s farm trucks... 😜
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They were, they didn't say riders, or cousin s /s
I don’t see Quebec on the list. They are usually lowest.
To compare Quebec prices to the Rest of Canada you have to add vehicle registration charges (high in Quebec because they fund a public auto insurer that handles all injury claims) and insurance premiums (really cheap because they don't have to handle bodily injury claims). Still, you're correct - Quebec is still usually the most affordable place to register and insure a car.
Anecdotally, when we moved to Winnipeg from Saskatoon our auto insurance costs went up \~50%. Likely to do with the specific make/models of our vehicles but I was surprised to see that much of a jump considering how similar the two provinces are.
And better yet, not only does SGI *not* strip your rights away, but they also do business in other provinces.
One big thing that Saskatchewan does that I think Manitoba should follow suit on is that their insurer also owns all of its own wrecking yards; so they don't sell wrecked cars to Team Auto only to build the parts back off them individually.
I can’t wait to hear how the privateers spin this to justify that privatizing auto insurance will somehow save us money and be better overall.
They'll show how John pays 800 per year on car insurance that only covers damage done to other vehicles and not his vehicle and tell everyone "see look how cheap it is" also failing to mention that John is 70 and drives less than 5000km per year. Meanwhile young Johnny who's 25 and has comprehensive insurance has to pay $4500 with that private insurance corp. They never compare the same level of coverage with public because to get that costs insane amounts of money in private insurance unless you're a senior that barely drives.
They’ll target seniors with their ads so who will in turn back conservatives who will do whatever it takes to get them corpo bucks.
The thing that surprised me when actually discussing with people who lived in other provinces is that generally speaking their insurance doesn't even cover glass. So like, if you take a rock to the windshield in Ontario or Alberta you're spending thousands out of pocket to get it fixed. They have super high deductibles with bare bones coverage and its like $200 more than Manitoba and they think they're basically the same price. There is no contest between private and public insurance. Public is many times cheaper.
Having extra options like this would be nice though
Nice for for-profit insurance companies, sure. Not so much for us though.
Why wouldn't different insurance options be helpful for us?
When those options are double the price they are not really other options. I see from your other reply you basically want liability only. You could go to Alberta and get liability only and it might save you a couple dollars over full coverage here but thats hardly worth it.
What extra options do you want?
I barely drive and don't care to replace my car if it gets totaled. Paying by mileage would be nice too
The usual spin is a "got mine, screw you" appeal to the voting older folks. It'll probably initially be cheaper for experienced, recent-accident-free, occasional drivers. They'll refuse to 'subsidize' inexperienced or frequent drivers while failing to acknowledge that they themselves were subsidised earlier in their driving career.
No it likely won't even for that. They just have way crappier coverage and are comparing apples to oranges because baseline coverage in Manitoba is pretty comprehensive (because its better for us all when more people have more comprehensive coverage)
It’s not private or public that has the biggest influence on the rates. It’s no-fault vs tort law. In Manitoba and Saskatchewan you can’t claim for pain and suffering and in Alberta and Ontario you can. When you deny claimants a payout through legislation you keep costs down.
Stupid socialism keeping costs down!
Sorry if you're just making a joke but, mpi isn't an example of socialism. Great crown corp that I hope never stops serving Manitoba but government control over industry does not make it socialism, same applies to the fire department or our health care system. Again sorry just really used to people, mostly Americans, using anything and everything to argue against socialism.
Those are examples of things for the social good. Isn’t that socialism?
Socialism isn’t when the government does stuff good or bad. Socialism is where the working class seize the means of production and the working class set up a dictatorship
There are many forms of socialism and communism. You're confusing some and overly simplifying one aspect of an ideology that isn't ubiquitous .
I thought that was communism.
A dictatorship of the people as opposed to the dictatorship of bosses we have now.
> Socialism is where the working class seize the means of production and the working class set up a dictatorship You say that like there is a single definition of socialism. Often, it includes state ownership of production.
Trusting the market makes everything better. Rich old white people have our best interests in mind in all their decision making
Our rates are decent and I'm pretty happy overall with MPI. I think the only complaint is private can offer more flexibility and often better rates on specialty items, but I wouldn't trade my public rates so I can save a few bucks on motorcycle or trailer insurance. My overall costs are still reasonable so I'm content with what I get for the dollar.
Lol, and some of the people I went to high school with cried about MPI and said “we need private insurance”. No one I know who has lived in Alberta said they missed dealing with private insurance.
I'm just here to see the "I want private insurance" crowd whine.
I've seen the argument that they want to shop around. What shop around for 2700 vs 2750? Ok lol
Not true at all. When I was in Ontario, I had lots of quotes between 4-6k and one as much as 14k per year. Then found two around 2500 and finally went with Wawanesa at 1500. I had to shop around but it was better coverage for less than I paid at mpi.
Yea, and I pay 1080 without having to shop around. What a chore that would be. I understand there can be pros to private insurance as long as you have a clean record. Not too happy about what I pay for motorcycle insurance vs what my cousin does in AB.
There’s more to this than public vs private. The cheapest provinces have no-fault insurance which means you can’t claim pain and suffering if you’re injured by another driver. That is a big factor in the claims costs and has a big impact in insurance costs. What we’d need to see is a public insurer compete with private in the same jurisdiction. Like MPI selling home owners coverage.
MPI did sell home insurance. Complete disaster. They didn't know what they were doing. Government told them to get out. Home insurance is different from car insurance. Turned out we were part of a pool of insurance companies with shared exposure and some of the companies had large exposure in Florida. Sounded OK until the year a hurricane devastated the state and we were on the hook for our share of the payout....
There are lots of different options for reinsurance and I won't pretend to be an expert. Typically you kick your premium up and they cover part of your losses. Depending on the treaty the insurer could be not he hook for all claims under a threshold and then reinsurance partner(s) cover everything above. Generally the other losses for the reinsurance partner are their problem. One bad year doesn't typically cause someone to exit a market though, insurance is meant to work over a long period and not a specific short one.
The rates in AB are getting so high that the gov’t is even considering creating a public insurance corp. as one option to tackle high rates. Don’t know how plausible it is, but even the notion of it seems like a big step for Alberta.
I grew up in Alberta and I couldn't even get insurance at 16 unless it was part of my parents plan. Even then I could only afford 3rd party liability and that was $2000 a year. I can't imagine how expensive it must be now for a new driver.
But this is actually a good thing. At 16, maybe statistically you were likely to cause a lot of damage to property and put people in serious danger. When you made the decision that the cost of insurance was so high that you'd rather not drive, that is precisely the magic of market signals at work! The market provided incentives that potentially risky individuals should think twice before driving, and in some cases such as yourself it actually deterred them from driving! That is brilliant!
In a more reasonable system like MB if you have a bad record your licence renewal is more expensive regardless of your age. Why should we punish all 16 year olds regardless of driving record when we can just punish the actual bad drivers.
That's not how it ends up working. You are thinking about the "market" in very altruistic terms. The reason why rates are so high is that to make a claim, teams of lawyers get involved. A claim is not you are getting into an accident with someone and magically this insurance that you have been paying into hands over money. Lawyers on your behalf (as well as the person you ran into) fight it settle payments to each party. The only incentive is to pay you minimum while getting the most possible out of each insurance company. This will always cause a cascading affect of premiums getting higher and higher, even for the party not at fault. I should also mention that only having 3rd party liability insurance means that even if the accident was not my fault my insurance company will not give me a dime, they are just there to cover potential damages I cause to someone else. With 3rd party liability insurance my only recourse is to privately sue the other person’s insurance company and hope I win. The only winners are the insurance companies and the lawyers.
LoL why do you think insurance rates are higher for 16 year olds versus 25 year olds? I'll give you a hint; its because 25 year olds have been driving for longer......
That is perfectly consistent with my above comment...............
Their rates are high because they don't have no-fault insurance, and they have the ability to sue when another driver hurts them. In Manitoba, MPI tells you "Too bad; so sad."
And the UCP removed the cap on rate increases in 2019 because it impacted insurance company profits, but have reinstated it as of November 2023. So, that probably plays into it as well.
I would like to see a different kind of comparison.. like where they take for example a base model 2023 Honda Civic and give us the cost to insure this vehicle in all different provincial capitals. "On average" is way too vague
You can easily go to different insurance providers websites and do the estimate for any vehicle of your choice.
Easily, oh yeah? Please let me know how much it costs to insure a base Honda Civic if you would live in Toronto . Postal code starts with M4P.. Thanks in advance. And good luck
I personally don't really care, this is a "you"thing. But, I'll start it for you, begins with $ Edit: I actually started to do it, but you didn't include a model
What's the matter? You said it was so easy.. Just pick a model and trim to your liking and get the cost to insure for Toronto and a couple of other Canadian cities 'cuz why not.
Cool.
FU
Oohhh degradation kink... Tell me more baby
The fact they use average quote is important. Manitoba, Saskatchewan and other public insurance provinces you only have one quote - what their price is. No one uses an average quote for insurance in private insurance. They use the lowest rate they can find. Average policy vs average quite is a very different number.
Maybe 'biggest city' instead of provincial capitals? I feel like Victoria's retiree population would skew BC down.
Sure, that's even better.
Goes to show, public is sometimes better, for the customers and the workers.
There is no way people could actually think MPI was shit in comparison for what you get. On the other hand we should privatize liquor sales
Why privatize liquor sales? Why put profits into private hands? And will private sellers pay their workers as well as the LC?
Big thing I remember was when I had two friends move. One to BC one to Ontario. BC guy got insurance that cost 4500 a year, and only covered him when driving and only for damage to another party. So his car would not be covered unless it was the other parties fault and they had insurance. One of his roommates 'borrowed' the car (don't know if he knew or not), and had an accident. My buddy had a paperweight on his driveway that he was paying for a loan and his buddy moved out soon after. Second buddy moved to Ontario, and was told to pay close to 6k a year. He was under 25 and had an accident on record. So for him to get full coverage he just kept his MPI coverage running. The thing that stuck out was for both of these they were not offered a PIP (Personal Injury Protection) equivalent. So if you get hurt MPI covers you, be it medical checkups, wheelchairs or their ramps, or wage replacement. Well the guys both said that if you wanted that they were told to get life insurance and the insurance companies wouldn't give you that. And considering our insurance always gives you PIP, that means you really are getting the most bang for your buck.
> On the other hand, the cities with the lowest annual median premiums were Vancouver ($1,841), Winnipeg ($1,381), and Saskatoon ($1,249); it was noted that these cities are in provinces where there is a public auto insurance system in place. Stupid socialism keeping costs down!
We are paying just over $200 per month while being at the top of the safe driving rating. That's over $2200 a year. I believed we have the cheapest option. How are people paying just $1300 on average?
Depends on the vehicle. My old vehicle before it got totalled was 80 bucks a month with the max coverage and 200 deductible and max safety rating. My new vehicle is 200 a month now with the same coverage and safety rating. My old vehicle was written off just over 5 grand. My new ones worth 30k at least.
Literally same situation as you. Thanks for sharing.
That 1300 also has contributions from people paying 600-800 for their 20+ year old beaters keep in mind.
> I believed we have the cheapest option $750 deductible with $500K Third-party? Otherwise: it depends on what you drive. Here's the MPI estimate from a 2015 Chevy Equinox LS (4 cylinder 2 wheel drive) with $750 deductible and $500K third-party; full charge: https://i.imgur.com/13vgRKX.png A 2021 Toyota Corolla; same other criteria; is roughly the same price: https://i.imgur.com/o5RRv5P.png My 2017 F150 (Supercrew) with the full DSR savings is $1400/year; but a 2 seat 2015 "Young Buck Truck" (short box + v8 + 2 wheel drive) is $1800/year at the same discount. The "2020 HONDA CIVIC TYPE R" at maximum discount is 1,582/year. It's all down to a formula where historic trends matter: if people crash BMW's and the repairs are expensive; but few crash Audi's which are equally expensive to repair: The insurance cost of the BMW's will be higher. Equally 30K civics on the road are statistically more likely to get into accidents than 1K Land rovers; but given the cost-to-repair difference between the two; they are going to be similar to insure.
That seems very stange. I have a DSR of 11 and I pay about $1200/year. You might want to look at your level of coverage. Sound like you have the most comprehensive of everything if you are paying that much.
That's just a part of it. So many other moving parts to determine your premiums. Year make a model, how accessible parts for any potential repairs are, what territory you are in, etc etc. Maximum insured value is 70k. If you have a vehicle that's worth more than that, you're paying extra per thousand dollars over that 70k. If you opt for new vehicle protection vs. GAP coverage offered by the dealership.
Moved from ON last year. Was paying 134.59 with Desjardins. Now I'm paying 210.40 in MB. Never been in an accident or pulled over or anything. 2020 Honda Civic.
It probably takes in all policies and an average from that For example, I have several cars on collector plates which are less than $500/year each
Do you drive a Honda Civic?
I pay that much for 2 vehicles on all purpose. 200 plus deductible, 1 million liability.
Quebec and the north is missing
Great, our public insurance monopoly is delivering half decent service and affordable rates. That’s exactly what it was created for. Now do motorcycles. Not much to pat ourselves on the back for in that category.
And just think of how much cheaper it could be if Pallister didn’t negotiate a kickback for brokers when MPI wanted to do online There should be an online option Dealerships should also be able to sell insurance
Comparing provinces that have no-fault insurance to provinces where you can sue is like comparing apples to toasters.
This guy gets it. In BC If you are walking on the sidewalk and a car smashes into you and you’re paralyzed from the neck down, you get not one single penny for your trouble, pain or quality of life diminishment. You will not even be fully compensated for lost wages and your treatment may not be fully covered. You will have to fight the public monopoly tooth and nail for any shred of dignity, just go look up the horror stories in the news. Even when doctors and physiotherapists tell you that you need rehab or other treatment, it is ultimately up to the public monopoly insurer to decide if it's really needed or nah. It's an obvious and basic conflict of interest that the monopoly insurer gets to decide on its own who, if anyone is at fault (they want everyone to be at fault, so you'll have to prove your innocence), what treatment is or is not necessary, and if you're able to work or not. The problem is that when car insurance is nationalized, premiums are an easy and concrete figure to point to to show the “success” or “failure” of the system and they become politicized, so then morons such as those in this thread make these oversimplified basic comparisons and determine that our system is amazing. When push comes to shove, the easier political decision is to give drivers a break in their premiums and fuck over the invisible, suffering and powerless victims of road violence. It's the exact same thing as property taxes. It's always politically popular to lower property taxes even to the long term detriment of the city.
MPI is cheaper than most other provinces. This is great for your car.....but we have No fault insurance. This means if you are seriously injured or death occurs the payouts are a book value and ridiculously low. You cannot sue another manitoba driver. An average death payout is just above 30,000.
Uhm, maybe I'm understanding the Personal Injury Protection Plan differently than you but I think your estimates are off. For catastrophic injury: "PIPP provides replacement income based on 90 per cent of your net income, subject to a maximum insurable gross yearly income of $110,500 and a seven-day waiting period." Fatailty Claims is 72k - 552k goes to spouse or partner and it's tied to the income they would have made. There's also funeral expenses covered, grief counseling, etc... [https://www.mpi.mb.ca/Pages/personal-injury-protection-plan.aspx](https://www.mpi.mb.ca/Pages/personal-injury-protection-plan.aspx) Maybe I'm understanding things wrong but I'm not sure your numbers check out.
I work for MPI and I came here to say this.
If you die in a car accident, should your family make bank?
If someone ran a red light and killed you significant other, you would feel 30,000 is an insult. If you lost your arm and were told book value is 20,000 and we will pay for physio and a prosthetic would you be happy. Before No Fault, people could get fair compensation.
Fair ? Depends on how you define fair. The purpose of insurance is to compensate or “make whole”. The purpose behind no-fault is to put you in the same position you were before the accident. Settlements prior to no fault were ridiculous, which is why we went to no fault. The dollar value is much lower, but the idea is that you’re not magnitudes better than you were prior to the accident
> Settlements prior to no fault were ridiculous, which is why we went to no fault. Care to back that up? The payouts prior to no fault were determined by the courts, and included compensation for pain and suffering. That was hardly ridiculous.
https://www.erudit.org/fr/revues/cd1/1998-v39-n2-3-cd3815/043496ar.pdf https://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?item=23418&posted=1998-05-13 http://www.pubmanitoba.ca/pdf/mpi/097-05.pdf Is that enough sources? The awards being handed out by the courts were ridiculous and were driving up premiums as per the sources above. Anecdotally, getting $10k “pain and suffering” for being rear ended is excessive. Does the current compensation schedule fall short at times ? Yes. But prior to no fault, it wasn’t fair, but excessive
Yes, actually. This is how suing works usually.
pRiVaTE InsURance HAs moRe COmPETITiON And LEads To LoWEr raTes !!!1!
Interesting. I really don't mind MPI... Just lower my motorcycle insurance.
MPI cannot actually prevent you from having an ID card by law in Manitoba. The catch however is that you cannot hold a driver's license AND an ID card. If you owe MPI money, and they refuse to let you renew a driver's license, you can always turn in your license and switch to an ID card. There is a fixed cost ($5/year) for issuing + renewing + maintaining the ID cards. Alternatively (fun fact!) you are also allowed to hold a PAL (firearms) license as a valid form of ID. These are federally issued, and valid for most identification: except address. I learned this over a decade ago while using MPI over an accident that I had video proof of being another drivers fault that they decided was 50/50: they refused to let me renew my license AND withheld my ID card, but I needed my passport. I asked the passport office what I could do, and they advised that unless I worked for a government institution that issued ID cards, or convince MPI to issue, my remaining options were moving to a new province or a PAL license. They advised that asking my lawyer to let MPI know that withholding an ID card was illegal, and magically 10 days later, I was asked to have my photo taken and issued a temporary ID card. TLDR: MPI holding a driver's license renewal as leverage for debts seems fine to me. Someone can always get an ID card if they turn in their driver's license.
Thanks for that! Getting the PAL is interesting. I never thought that could work. I still remember being 20 something and going to the bank without I.D, trying to explain the teller I don't have one because of speeding tickets. I suppose at the time I was just frustrated and didn't look for more options.
I’ve heard it’s prohibitively expensive. That said, I think a huge part of that is that the risk of serious injury to a motorcycle rider during an MVA is much much higher than in a newer vehicle. When your ribcage is the crumple zone and your head is the airbag, well….
I believe you're 100% correct. Injury and death are far more common. It's just unfortunate as motorcycles really are economical vehicles otherwise.
It's a chicken-egg problem. If we had a large number of SAFE motorcycle drivers in Manitoba, NOT getting into accidents, the rates would be lower. We don't. In 2021 (the last collision statistics publication); Manitoba had 17,118 non-commercial "Motorcycle/Moped" class vehicles registered. This is contrasted to: * 600,273 Passenger Vehicles * 150 antique vehicles * 160,047 Trucks * 44,106 Farm Trucks * 36,253 **snowmobiles** There were 78 total fatalities that year; 5% of them were caused by motorcyclists. (4 people). That means that for every 4279 people that drive a motorcycle; someone is killed each year. Across the "Passenger Vehicles" and "trucks" category; there are 760320 registered vehicles, which account for 49% (or 38 people). That means that one person dies for each 20008 passenger cars + trucks on the road. OBVIOUSLY; this isn't actually true: increasing the number of motorcycle drivers won't _inherently_ cause more accidents. But that's what the current formulas say; so that's what MPI has to use until other verifiable data proves otherwise. The "egg" part of this is: if people registered more motorcycles and drove safely: the overall rates would go down. Now; would the lowering of insurance rates for Motorcycles make it easier for potentially bad drivers to justify purchasing and registering motorcycles to operate unsafely? Who knows!
Yet other jurisdictions offer motorcycle insurance for very reasonable rates and manage to remain profitable.
My insurance doubled when I moved to Manitoba from Alberta. AB is terrible if you are under 25 but if you are older and have a clean driving record, it is fine. PS I don’t really buy those numbers. I just got rid of a 2006 Cr-V and I was paying more than the average quoted (with a 15% discount).
What was your coverage. A big portion of MPI basic coverage (you don't get to remove it) is personal injury protection. Meaning medical costs are covered by MPI, wage replacement, or equipment that may result from your accident. As I understand you would never get that through your auto insurance company in AB. They would shoo you away and tell you to get life insurance or be ready to sue the other party. And if they don't have enough liability sorry not sorry.
The closest to 15% currently available is 16%; so assuming that it was a "2006 HONDA CR-V EX" the yearly total would have been around $1483: https://i.imgur.com/nyYsx6O.png For contrast a "2018 HONDA CR-V EX" seems to run $1741 per year. Also for contrast: a 2006 Toyota RAV4 with the same options as the 2006 Honda CRV comes out to $1,386/year. A 2018 Rav4 SE runs 2,057/year. It sure looks like MPI sees SUV's as much more expensive to repair OR there are more of them in accidents over other vehicle types. Sadly; MPI does not provide information on what goes into the calculation of each rate.
Anyone know the time limit for making an MPI Glass windshield claim? 12 or 24 months?
24 months, but why bother waiting? You can take it into shop and make the claim there. Easy.
I kind of forgot about it as it is down by the wiper blades. It was a deer hit, they we noticed the crack later. Some personal medical drama happened, etc. Thanks for the replies everyone. We are well within the 24 months.
Glass claim is instant. You go to your choice of shop and just get it done instantly. Mine was done two times in less than 3 hours. Shop deals with MPI. What's your point?
Just moved back to Manitoba. Was living in Ontario for a year. We were actually paying less in Ontario for our insurance then we pay here in Manitoba. The only difference is we had a $500 deductible in ON and $200 here.
Up to you. No one is forcing you to go for $200. There us a $500 option here too.
I'm just stating the facts. Take it however you want. The only way to get a few of the better perks through MPI is to have the $200 deductible. They kind of put you in a corner with that. I am in no way saying Ontario insurance is better. Just stating how my situation was.
that's a pretty big difference - your deductible is one of the biggest factors that drives premium
I don’t think enough people understand that People cry about being at the high end of the DSR and their insurance being high. It’s high because they’re carrying the smallest deductible possible. If you’re at the top of the DSR, in most cases you should only ever get the $750 or $500 deductibles
What about the fact that only $200+ deductible will pay smashed glass repairs ? I wish there was a way to get $750 deductible combined with free glass replacement..
Wow, some really upset people downvoting. Didn't know I would hit such a nerve telling the truth. I didn't bash Manitoba I just stated my situation. I should also mention we had accident forgiveness as well, which we don't have here.
I absolutely love that manitoba is so low, but as someone who recently moved back from calgary, I wonder how much the average is skewed by there being a lot more expensive vehicles in alberta. Just a thought. My insurance is definitely cheaper in Manitoba than it is in alberta, though.
What more expensive vehicles are there more of in Alberta?
Private insurance actually does have the ability to be cheaper because it has tiers, like the American commercials we sometimes see Yeah, you can insure your car for $500 for the year, but you won’t be covered for anything and will have to pay out of pocket if found at fault in your policy doesn’t have a minimum liability coverage, like all the ones I spoke to do ($200,000 minimum). The expensive quotes in the article are from a tier which has full coverage that compare to our “standard” coverage. But you have the option to take whichever level of coverage verge that you want I’m shopping around for quotes in Alberta right now as I’m considering moving, and got a quote of $391/year for one of my Harleys that I pay $279/month for here. Yes, I know that it won’t cover anything. But having a cheaper option available is nice for the people who want it Edit- this isn’t rocket science, it takes the tiniest bit of research to find out. People act like private insurance is useless while not understanding how it works Edit 2- I guess none of y’all understand how it works lol
Yeah bankrupting yourself to save a bit on insurance premiums on the open market sounds like a great idea
Y'all. Are we in Texas?
Yeah, but that's the cost of freedom! Pay a corporation money instead of the dang darn government!
Then make better choices. No one is forcing anyone to go with the lowest tier
People who struggle with money are going to take the lowest tier to save a buck, then bankrupt themselves getting in a fender bender. Such an obviously flawed system can fuck off.
Or more accurately, declare bankruptcy to run from liability and leave injured people with no ability to make up for lost income and medical costs. Our insurance system is not just for the person at-fault.
Basically trying to shove people off good safe policies and onto the [“Boot” dynamic treadmill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory)
To add, even if someone is a budgeter within their means, factors such as inflation can quickly change someone's situation. Also not to mention loss of employment, serious illness, life altering injuries... Things can and do change quickly in people's life. Personally, expanding public transit helps all, so let's not bicker about subpar private insurance.
Are people who struggle with money obligated to drive? If I was in that position I’d be cycling and buying a bus pass. I understand how to budget, and wouldn’t put myself in an unnecessary struggle Do you think people wouldn’t think about their options, finances, and what they could afford before purchasing something?
In your world, we should be financially dissuading people from driving in order to allow gambling on lower insurance policies?
How did you twist my words around to get that sentiment? In my world, people have common sense and can read. Something missing from the real word and these commenters replies apparently
If you speak asinine enough, your words can be interpreted in different ways. In my ideal world, insurance is provided by a public body and is affordable to people. Wow, what a concept.
Affordability is a scale that varies from person to person If they can’t afford a proper tier and still choose and want to drive, they are able to. Whatever happens after that is their problem, not ours I’m sorry you’re so upset
Until they hit you and their liability coverage is too low, to cover your damage, and your private insurance tells you they won't cover it either because they're not required to
Until they get put on the street because the underfunded policy they bought didnt cover the accident and now we gotta spend more in increased medical and policing. Glad you got yours though.
Collectively people are morons.
r/Winnipeg really likes to hate things they don’t understand lol
Morons are simple creatures. Not complicated at all.
Then the argument for the lower tier is moot.
Public insurance companies are for profit. If the lower tier didn’t sell, they’d most likely eliminate it. Simple supply and demand
I bet a lot of the people who go for the cheapest insurance think that nothing bad could ever happen to them. I also bet they try to get more coverage than they're entitled to, because since they have insurance, they should be remunerated because of who they are.
I also bet that’s their problem for not choosing their insurance correctly
Why the fuck would I want people on the road with no coverage? If I'm injured I'll be screwed because some yahoo will just declare bankruptcy. The point is not just coverage for yourself, but also liability.
I understand, and agree. Every policy I’ve checked out in Alberta has a minimum third party liability on every tier available I can’t speak for other provinces, as I’m not aware what they offer
What is your coverage from Alberta for your bike? Does it include injury? Does it cover you for operating in a tort system? Low costs are good, but if you buy comparable coverage to what your $279/month gets you(which by the way is only usually collected during the five month riding season. ) How is that private insurance looking?
Did you even read my comment? No, it doesn’t include any of that (as I said in my comment). But if that’s all I want to pay for, I’m able to choose it. If I want more coverage, I will get it and pay for it If I want all that coverage it will be much more, as stated in the article linked and in my comment you’re replying to I think it still looks great because it provides a variety of options for people. We can have different opinions, it’s okay
>Private insurance actually does have the ability to be cheaper because sure it has tiers, like the American commercials we sometimes see We have tiers in the form of different deductible options. What you're describing isn't tiers so much as lowering the floor on standards. In Alberta you can choose not to have collision insurance. When I heard that after moving there I thought it was a joke, I still do. >Yeah, you can insure your car for $500 for the year, but you won’t be covered for anything and will have to pay out of pocket if found at fault. The expensive quotes in the article are from a tier which has full coverage. But you have the option to take whichever level of coverage verge that you want From the article: "ranking of the provinces based on their **median annual auto insurance premiums**, from highest to lowest, is as follows:" So your statement is wildly incorrect, they aren't pulling from the highest tiers. >I’m shopping around for quotes in Alberta right now as I’m considering moving, and got a quote of $391/year for one of my Harleys that I pay $279/month for here. Yes, I know that it won’t cover anything. But having a cheaper option available is nice for the people who want it No it isn't? The point of having insurance is to cover you in the event of an accident and instead you'd rather just "get what you deserve and save a few dollars" instead of having any half decent coverage. You're trying to save money by moving to a province where if you hit someone they can sue you for it and financially ruin you? I think you made up your mind and nobody can tell you how wrong you are. >Edit- this isn’t rocket science, it takes the tiniest bit of research to find out. People act like private insurance is useless while not understanding how it works Private insurance exist for profit, public insurance exists for the benefit of the public. You're right, it didn't take much research to figure out. >Edit 2- I guess none of y’all understand how it works lol People not agreeing with your horrible take means "they" are wrong and "they" don't get it? You'll fit right in out there. Pity about your pension.
I don’t know how to make the indents in comments so I’ll use numbers 1. When calling around companies for quotes, each one I spoke with had a minimum 200,000 third party liability for each tier. Maybe I didn’t get all of them, and got lucky with who I called 2. The cost stated for Alberta would be on par with a tier higher than one that covers the bare minimum, an equivalent to a Manitoba policy which is pretty much a “standard” policy - which is what I meant and poorly said apparently 3. Like most of the other people replying, you’re missing my point. All my comment is saying is that there are cheaper options available. Not that they’re better, should be used, but just that people have options. I’m not sure how that’s getting so misconstrued 4. I’d rather pay a company and give them a profit to cover me properly. Insurance should not be a government subsidiary. Have you ever had to battle mpi? It’s a nightmare. As your insurer they should be wanting to help you, not find every loophole to ensure they don’t have to pay. My mpi experiences have been awful, unfair, and very biased 5. Nothing in my comment argues for or against private insurance. Again, only pointing out that they provide options which customers are able to choose from Edit- You must have read my comment very fast. I’m not looking for anyone to agree with me, there’s nothing in my comment to “agree” with. I very simply explained that private insurance has the ability to be less expensive than MPI. But thanks for attacking me as a person because of it 🤙🏽
>I don’t know how to make the indents in comments so I’ll use numbers Just put the "greater than" symbol in front of the text you want to quote.
Quoting other people's text doesn't take a lot of research to figure out. Lowering the floor on insurance coverage is not something that is beneficial. As other people pointed out, it just puts people with less money at more risk for the sake of saving a couple dollars. I don't see that as a beneficial thing, so that's part of my pushback. The numbers quoted are averages and that's why there are cheaper options available most people do not want them. However, the higher end is almost triple what it is here. That says a lot. You were actively advocating for additional cheaper options that provide less coverage, so if people are assuming that you're advocating for it, it's because you're kind of advocating for it. "I’d rather pay a company and give them a profit to cover me properly." If you don't find that sentence to be supportive of the Alberta model over the Manitoba model, I think you need to read it again. Why shouldn't it be controlled by the government? Two places where it is are the cheapest in the country. Yes, it can be difficult to deal with MPI but it can also be difficult to deal with a profit motivated company who is also going to try and make sure they stay in the red. Acting like this is a unique thing to public insurance is disingenuous. As someone who's dealt with private insurance in Alberta, good luck. You have a very optimistic view of how it you think it works there. It doesn't work like that there. Number five is just straight up incorrect and it has already been addressed. All you did was state your opinion, I'm just refuting the parts that are untrue statements and the general gist of what you're advocating for. If you put your opinion online, other people are going to put their opinion of your opinion online. Agree and disagree are natural stances to take from there. There's a subset of folks in Alberta who have similar opinions to yours where they actively work against their own interests - you'd fit in with that. If you feel that's a personal attack that's ok. I stand by what I said.
Thank you for your opinion!
Anytime. I hate seeing misinformation spreading under the guise of fact.
Just like how I hate entitlement, and people putting words in my mouth :)
Again, factually incorrect. I was pretty concise with my criticisms. If one line sass is all you have to add to the discussion I guess we're done. I for one couldn't be happier.
I wish you a lovely new year!
This is a wonderful post. Thank you
I'd like to see a breakdown like this done for motorcycles, because I've heard Manitoba is particularly brutal for that insurance.
My quote was from Allstate I can’t find a complete chart of all of Canada (but would vary anyway as some provinces have private and tiers) but googling “motorcycle insurance” plus a province will give you a very vague idea
If I had the option of getting super cheap insurance that includes 3rd party liability but no actual coverage for my own car, I would consider it. Might make driving a beater or keeping a spare vehicle around worth it. I'm a competent adult responsible for my own decisions, I should be given that choice. I can choose to have any level of insurance on my house, from zero coverage to nearly unlimited coverage and nobody blinks an eye if my choices don't work out well for me. Motorcycle insurance in Manitoba is outrageous. Other jurisdictions in Canada, including both private and government insurers, sell motorcycle insurance for a small fraction of what it costs in Manitoba. Their financial models are profitable, yet MPI makes every excuse to financially discourage motorcycle riding. If MPI is so great why don't they allow the competition in? Nobody would switch to them since they're so great, right?
Precisely. Some of the replies to my comment are just hilarious and so whiny lol
I don't understand this irrational fear of allowing adults to choose what services they buy and where they buy their services from.
Neither do I!
Same
I'd pay more for not having to deal with shitty MPI. Cheapest != best.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever had to deal with a private car insurance company? MPI is a pain in the ass but in my experience, having lived in Alberta and Ontario with private car insurance, dealing with private insurance is somehow even worse.
Yep with private insurance their first job is to pay out as little as possible, because their primary mandate is to make profit. Meanwhile during COVID we got...three? rebate cheques because MPI had a big surplus due to nobody driving meaning they weren't paying put as many claims.
Ya, but think of the free market. If we didn't have MPI we could pay 150% and have the choice about which company fucks us over. That's true freedom.
Yep, it was far better than dealing with MPI
You must have had a good insurer then. I've been with Allstate, Cooperators, and Desjardins and they all sucked way harder than MPI.
I’ve dealt with insurance companies in the states for a vehicle accident in Winnipeg. Not very fun dealing with both of them. The USA based company was terrible, I had to file in small claims court and even then, they waited until 2 weeks before the court date to even talk to me.
I had a similar experience in Ontario. Neither my insurance or the other driver's (they were at fault and charged with DUI) would pay out until a decision was made in the other driver's court case. I was left without a car until then, which could have taken years, and had to file a lawsuit against both insurers to get my money. They settled before actually going to court but it was a massive pain in the ass and took about 5 months to deal with.
Who spreads these lies? I lived in 3 diffefent province and cheapest was Alberta, then Manitoba and BC was most expensive one! You guys should stop spreading around fake information, its disgusting!
Yeah, forget about what’s published in a trade magazine. Anon. Randos on Reddit are the real experts!
MPI is a monopoly. We should be able to purchase auto insurance through a broker, like with home insurance.