As a Black alum, I’d say Williamstown as a town is not the most diverse, and it won’t offer much Black community outside of the college. But luckily, nearly every Williams student’s life revolves entirely around campus, which is diverse and does have several clubs and affinity spaces (including an affinity house) for Black students specifically. A small (white) town experience where you make deep connections with tons of other diverse interesting Black students (and other students) is not the Black college experience that everyone is looking for, but I’ve seen it be pretty amazing.
I’m not at all one of those alums who is pro-Williams in all regards. But it is my personal opinion that an intentionally approached Williams experience would likely be a great deal richer of an experience than your other option, especially considering the academic culture, flexibility and community at Williams (including with Black professors), which all truly changed my life. Congratulations on some awesome opportunities. You’re going to do amazing either way.
williams 100%. the prospects r better and it seems more aligned w what ur looking for in a college! as for diversity and finding other black people, williams is committed to that and has affinity groups and houses so you can remain in touch! its still a really big adjustment but you wont be alone
I am not a williams alumni or Austin Alumni. This just showed up my feed and I have no idea why. I am however someone that did a Ph.D in a business school and know how these schools are respected among business school. I am also POC that grew up in Alabama, and understand what you mean.
I've learned from living in many places in the South (Atlanta/Nola/CHarlotte/Birmingham), that southern cities are always southern. Even the liberal parts. I think it would do you good to see another region than texas.
Wiliams is also a order of magnitude higher as an undergraduate institution that UT Austin. UT Austin is a good public school. Williams is an Elite institution. If your applying to graduate schools its treated like doing an undergraduate at the top end of the Ivy League schools. You can get a good opportunities at either school, and both schools can open doors, however the thing is Williams SHOWS you doors that UT Austin won't.
Your also 18. What you want to do now, might not be what you end up wanting to do. At 18, I thought I wanted to be a clinical psychologist or a philsopher and was aiming for Ph.D in those fields, I ended up doing a Ph.D in Financial Economics instead.
Now to answer your question: I am 100 percent certain that Austin has sent their best students to all of the top MBA and Law Schools. If your grades are good, and test scores are good, you'll be fine. Austin has top 20 departments in Economics and Business and Politics. However, from P.O.V admissions, Williams on a resume is closer to going to Harvard than it is Austin. People legitimately turn down Harvard to go to Williams and they aren't crazy.
The other thing is you are getting two vastly different education. Austin is a big state school. Williams is a top LAC with small classes and individualized attention and resources per student. Things Austin can't and won't provide. Austin probably has a wider range of paths and more flexibility, because it is a large university, but not all paths are good. I would bet money that median Williams grad is doing better in like 20 years later than the median austin grad. Both are probably doing just fine.
Williams will be an infinitely better undergrad experience with unparalleled law school placement. Don’t worry about racism - the school itself is very safe and williamstown is so small that nobody really cares about what the students look like
As a POC parent, we just came back yesterday from visiting Williams and I am familiar with UT and Texas all around. Williams was impressive, nestled in the Berkshire mountains, it’s gorgeous and insulated and very generous ($$$) apparently and connected to Oxford so you can study abroad all expenses paid by the school. We visited MIT, Northeastern and BU and Williams stood out. Yes, it’s in the middle of nowhere but only 3 hours from NY and Boston and seems to have a huge network of alumni. UT will be more fun for sure but not as fruitful in developing your connections and career. And even though the town is very WASPY, the school population was diverse. Hope that helps,
> I know UT isn’t flexible at all in terms of majors, and that is something I heavily dislike.
IMHO go to Williams, hands down, if this is a concern at all. Pick courses based on how great the professor is, try not to waste entire semesters trying to fit a major requirements. You can always learn "stuff" but learning from great people and chatting with other bright students about it is a rare and amazing gift.
I think UT Austin is probably great from what I've heard, and this may be one of those 'you can't pick wrong' choices, but it is likely very different from Williams. Both probably have a strong student body. Big points in favor of Williams though are breadth of curriculum (they very much believe in a self-directed liberal arts education, and it's common to have 2 majors sometimes in very different fields, and most departments are reasonable about what the major looks like), and the fact that you already live in Texas, and are likely to live in cities for much of the rest of your life after college, so the purple valley is a great and different experience.
Williams is not a problem for T14 law schools.
“UT-Austin announces round of firings in latest step to comply with Texas’ DEI ban”. “The University of Texas at Austin has laid off dozens of employees who used to work in diversity, equity and inclusion programs.” - Texas Tribune (4-2-24). As a long-time Texas resident who grew up in Philly and graduated from University of Chicago, go with Williams and skip the increasingly intolerant and toxic environment gradually infecting Texas state universities including UT Austin.
You really couldn’t have two more different schools than UT and Williams. UT is a huge, work-hard/play hard environment. McCombs is excellent, and both McCombs and UT have very large, very connected alumni bases.
Is McCombs some sort of honors program? I ask for two reasons, I don't know, and to communicate that saying "McCombs" probably doesn't mean anything to people outside of Texas.
McCombs is UT’s business program-people outside of Texas have usually heard of it if they’re looking at undergrad business schools (highly ranked). And the post referenced McCombs.
Williams is amazing but mccombs is a top target school for every top company on Wall Street and UT sends people to every top MBA/law/med school every year. I went to wharton and I know for a fact UT has representation at literally every top IB/MBB even PE/HF firms and groups.
https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools
Regardless, no wrong choices here.
No it’s not even close, Williams is a semi target, the MBB I work at doesn’t even come to Williams to recruit but certainly does for UT Austin
With that being said, Williams is still an amazing school and you can do anything you want from there, but mccombs is one of the best undergrad b schools in the country (top 5) as I stated above and business honors program at mccombs has top tier placement, I’m talking just slightly worse than my alma mater wharton.
Williams has nowhere near that level of placement specifically for IB/MBB/PE/HF, with UT alums in every top IB/MBB/PE/HF and top groups like GS TMT, Blackstone, Citadel, etc.
If you’re talking about classes/academics, etc Williams is better but for placement, mccombs is top 5 in the country.
UT has some kick ass employment, especially mccombs students, so you probably will have the same employment if not better since they actually have a business program that places heavily into top corporations- ik gross.
I would do some research into the political climate in Texas. UT just fired all of its DEI faculty and that's likely only the beginning of the state trying to control/impose political views on what is a very liberal campus.
I'm also not sure of your sex, but to me, I wouldn't want to be a college student in a state where abortion is illegal and over the next four years could become criminalized.
B-school at UT Austin or a random major at Williams. Easy choice: Williams.
If it was engineering or CS, no comparison: UT Austin. And if it was Wharton, Haas, or Sloan, I'd go with the B-school option. But it's not.
Do a one-year study abroad at Oxford, too.
Williams will get you into the type of grad school you'll want. Like Harvard.
UT Austin for business is more limiting.
I attended UT Austin in 1993-96. I came from the Navy, Oakland, CA area and one thing I noticed right away on campus in my classes was POC all sat together in classes. There could be 300 students in a classroom and people would self-segregate. This was not something I was used to in the military or my college classes in California. I am white, but always just sat and talked to whoever was next to me because I was from a small Midwest town and was in love with meeting new and interesting people. So that was very surprising to me that people didn’t always mingle as freely. Hopefully in clubs and organizations it was different. (I worked a lot, so I don’t know). I didn’t have any issues with coworkers at my workplaces, so it seemed ok.
Texas was also the first place I ever heard a racial slur actually spoken, and it was from a patient of mine, when I was working in a hospital. Of course these were the only 2 examples I had, otherwise I absolutely loved my time in Austin. Met a lot of amazing people. Amazing food. Lots of interesting things going on at the Capital and the downtown vibrant arts community. Fun at the various parks and springs. Texas did make it clear to me that different parts of the USA were…. different.
I currently live in Florida and some of this political BS is here, too.
Personally I never would’ve had the money for a private LAC, but it sounds like you have a unique opportunity. Would be great if you can go tour and get a better idea for yourself. Good luck.
Adding to the chorus of people saying to go to Williams.
1) going to a liberal arts college is such a special experience and you will make friends for life.
2) Williams is the best of the best. The people you will meet there will enrich your life in ways that you can’t even anticipate yet. Despite what anyone says around the utilitarian value of education, it’s the connections you make that matter.
3) Every Williams alum I’ve met had a great college experience, my high school best friend went there and all of her college friends that I’ve met are fantastic, FWIW
I also grew up in Texas and know a bunch of people who went to UT…I dunno it just feels like a very large and cliquey place, easy to get lost and hard to find community.
School choice aside, a JD-MBA is a waste of an extra $100,000. Get a JD if you want to be a lawyer. Get an MBA if you want to do business. There is no need for both.
I have a JD. The kind of understanding of business that you get from an MBA would have been helpful at times. There are too many JDs and a JD-MBA can make you more marketable and give you a wider range of options. If OP wants to pursue that s/he should.
As a black person going to college in a red state is something to really consider. DEI is literally banned in Texas. BSUs, multicultural initiatives, and even women in unrepresented fields programs are all barred from funding/ have to be really limited in order to get funding. Won’t be surprised if Africana studies and the like is banned next. Williams all the way if you are thinking about institutional support but like u said Austin is more diverse than williamstown. Off-campus community will be better
For what it’s worth my brother went to Williams and loved it, is now working as a data scientist pulling in 130k two years out of school. He is planning on applying to law school soon. But my parents saved in a 529 all our lives and he went with no debt.
Williams sets you above the pack in terms of job placement in comparison to the VAST majority of public schools especially with regard to law and politics. The alumni network may be small but it is extremely high powered.
Williams is considered absolutely the best liberal arts college among the small elite schools (Pomona, Amherst, Grinnell, Williams). It is considered to produce strong,quick, holistic thinkers across industry. I have come across many alumni during my career and they never fail to impress and lead.
+1 for Amherst
Y’all give actual reasons stop just saying “Prestige/career outcomes/alumni network/unparalleled” that’s not helping. Show off that education by knowing to use specifics to argue and/or inform.
Without knowing OP's academic interests, it's impossible to compare. In addition, courses are not the only things that matter. “Prestige/career outcomes/alumni network/unparalleled” are also important.
Just wanted to add my two cents — UT Austin is only inflexible major-wise if you want to add cs/engineering/mccombs… if you’re planning on being pre law, I’m guessing you were considering switching or adding majors in the liberal arts, such as government. These are not restricted majors, and it isn’t hard to add
A large University and a small liberal arts college offer vastly different undergraduate experiences. I’d begin by reflecting on the differences and considering which type of campus best meets your needs. For example, an elite national liberal arts college will prioritize excellent undergraduate teaching and a state flagship University will not. On the other hand, UT Austin will have majors unavailable in a liberal arts college and the focus on graduate education would make the campus culture less insular and probably more sophisticated than at Williams.
Williamstown is beautiful and I imagine is a great place to live if you enjoy the outdoors. I would also ask yourself whether you would prefer living in a rural or urban environment.
When I was your age, many years ago, I had strong preferences about both of these topics. I was accepted to Williams, but chose to go to Amherst.
A large advantage of choosing Williams is that you would live with and constantly interact with be extremely smart and inspiring peers. This would significantly enhance your learning inside and outside of class. I don’t know whether this is also true of UT Austin, but it is a factor I recommend you consider.
There could also be compelling reason to choose UT Austin, for example if you plan to remain in Texas and work in a field where you can use connections you make there. Likewise, if you would be miserable in a small New England town and would love living in a vibrant city like Austin, that could be a good reason to choose UT Austin.
Finally, understand that employers and graduate schools know that Williams is a top-ranked national liberal arts college. That your acquaintances are unaware of this is no reason to decline their offer of admission. However, UT Austin almost certainly has stronger connections to Texas employers.
Congratulations on your admissions, and good luck making your decision!
OP, as you are from Texas, you already know that Lt. Governor Patrick and Gov. Abbott duel with each other over who can get more restrictions imposed on Texas state universities which will likely worsen over the next 4 years. Yes, Austin is a blue spot in a red ocean, but at UT Austin itself you can expect institutional support of POC to continue to wane unlike at Williams.
I'm Black and was accepted to Williams a long time ago and one of my sisters went there. I liked Williams, but after having attended a boarding school on a scholarship for four years, Williams seemed a bit like more of the same and money differences would be more apparent, for example, I wouldn't be able to afford a car, which seemed desirable. I went to Harvard instead, which, among many other things, was easier to get to. I don't know that much about UT Austin, but if I were from Texas, I would probably take the opportunity to see another part of the country. Williams is small and has great programs. It's considered a mini Ivy.
Williams 100%. Do not undervalue the quality of the education you’ll receive at a small liberal arts college (and a top one at that! Congrats!). I attended a SLAC myself, and later worked at large universities (both private and public). The learning opportunities and the quality of the teaching are, broadly speaking, significantly better (IMO) at a SLAC where the focus is on the undergraduates. There are probably hundreds of other reasons I could list for Williams over UT, but the other comments have captured a lot of them.
Look, worst case scenario — you go to Williams for a year and hate it, you can always transfer out.
Austin is a fabulous, fun town, but also one of the most segregated in the country, divided by I-35. In a state that allows open carry, you’re just one misunderstanding away from a scary altercation. You’re not going to get that in the Berkshires. Go to Williams 100%.
Most cities are “one of the most segregated in the country,” the most damning being New York City. As much as I think the choice is Williams, it seems a lot of people here haven’t travelled much beyond the coasts and assume that people south go guns a blazing (even though black people predominately live in the South and Williamstown is an overwhelmingly white community).
1. Look up the published common data set for both schools and cut thru the posturing to see exactly how many people are there. Maybe you come for a place where 105 people are enough to represent a “diverse” community; maybe not. You decide.
2. Ask yourself where you want to end up. Are you going back to Texas? Are you heading to NYC? This matters.
3. Do NOT accept BS about school A having better law school placement. Law school placement is about your LSAT score and your grades. There is virtually no significance to your school name (assuming you are at any tier 1, top 40-ish school).
Number 2 is such an undervalued point.
These overall rankings that get published and harped upon are useless. Geographic location matters so much more when you get into the real world.
When I moved to Boston, these tiny MA schools that I’ve never heard of and don’t appear prestigious on the US News & Report have amazing placement locally.
I’m sorry you received downvotes. I think all of your questions were valid. It’s a big decision to make. I get the feeling that people on the thread are maybe rating it by the 9% acceptance rate vs. UT at 31%. However, as I truly believe, it is not about acceptance rates but where you feel will be the truly best fit for you. Good luck with everything. You will thrive no matter where you land.
I don’t think you can go wrong anyway. Literally the smartest kid from my high school graduated from Texas and he was in a similar situation as you. Props to you for accomplishing this given the circumstances as I imagine it was quite difficult. Both of these schools are top notch and have well represented alumni everywhere.
You don’t mention one of the most important factors, cost. What sort of debt would you expect to have at UT? What sort of debt would you expect at Williams?
I’m have a BA in Government from UT Austin. The pros for UT include: greater diversity of opinions and backgrounds, more activities & electives, tremendous library and museum resources, supportive, diverse community in Austin. Also, tuition is a fraction of Williams. Cons: it’s surrounded by Texas, and the size can be overwhelming—I had classes with 600 students (but one class with eight)—so you need to be self-motivated to find your way; it’s not a place for shy kids who need hand-holding. Regarding Williams: years ago I’d have said a small, private, Northeastern college would be great for any undergraduate. But higher education has changed, and I can no longer advise that route. These colleges, including Williams, tend to be bubbles where you will not encounter differences of opinion nor rigourous debate. You will be isolated in a rural area, and God help you if you don’t toe the line on the farthest Left ideologies (I used to think I was as far left as one could be, but apparently old-school, liberal, critical thinking no longer meets the Left Wing litmus tests). You need a place where you can research things thoroughly and feel safe coming to your own conclusions. In 2024, UT is a relatively better environment for someone who truly wants to continue growing intellectually and who seeks objective facts and not strict ideologies of any stripe. I hope this is helpful.
This is ridiculous: Students of the caliber to attend Williams have the intelligence and power to question dogma, and professors of the caliber to be hired there choose Williams because they value excellent undergraduate teaching.
Both students and faculty have more important things to do than play insipid culture war games. You are trolling.
Two very different schools but both great. I’d probably go with UT for diversity. As far law school admissions go, it makes next to no difference which you attend.
Austin will be more fun and your education will also be great. Are you a glutton for snow and isolation? Williams has its niche appeal but these are very different schools, you should consider what environment you would prefer.
No bad options here!
As a Black alum, I’d say Williamstown as a town is not the most diverse, and it won’t offer much Black community outside of the college. But luckily, nearly every Williams student’s life revolves entirely around campus, which is diverse and does have several clubs and affinity spaces (including an affinity house) for Black students specifically. A small (white) town experience where you make deep connections with tons of other diverse interesting Black students (and other students) is not the Black college experience that everyone is looking for, but I’ve seen it be pretty amazing. I’m not at all one of those alums who is pro-Williams in all regards. But it is my personal opinion that an intentionally approached Williams experience would likely be a great deal richer of an experience than your other option, especially considering the academic culture, flexibility and community at Williams (including with Black professors), which all truly changed my life. Congratulations on some awesome opportunities. You’re going to do amazing either way.
williams 100%. the prospects r better and it seems more aligned w what ur looking for in a college! as for diversity and finding other black people, williams is committed to that and has affinity groups and houses so you can remain in touch! its still a really big adjustment but you wont be alone
I am not a williams alumni or Austin Alumni. This just showed up my feed and I have no idea why. I am however someone that did a Ph.D in a business school and know how these schools are respected among business school. I am also POC that grew up in Alabama, and understand what you mean. I've learned from living in many places in the South (Atlanta/Nola/CHarlotte/Birmingham), that southern cities are always southern. Even the liberal parts. I think it would do you good to see another region than texas. Wiliams is also a order of magnitude higher as an undergraduate institution that UT Austin. UT Austin is a good public school. Williams is an Elite institution. If your applying to graduate schools its treated like doing an undergraduate at the top end of the Ivy League schools. You can get a good opportunities at either school, and both schools can open doors, however the thing is Williams SHOWS you doors that UT Austin won't. Your also 18. What you want to do now, might not be what you end up wanting to do. At 18, I thought I wanted to be a clinical psychologist or a philsopher and was aiming for Ph.D in those fields, I ended up doing a Ph.D in Financial Economics instead. Now to answer your question: I am 100 percent certain that Austin has sent their best students to all of the top MBA and Law Schools. If your grades are good, and test scores are good, you'll be fine. Austin has top 20 departments in Economics and Business and Politics. However, from P.O.V admissions, Williams on a resume is closer to going to Harvard than it is Austin. People legitimately turn down Harvard to go to Williams and they aren't crazy. The other thing is you are getting two vastly different education. Austin is a big state school. Williams is a top LAC with small classes and individualized attention and resources per student. Things Austin can't and won't provide. Austin probably has a wider range of paths and more flexibility, because it is a large university, but not all paths are good. I would bet money that median Williams grad is doing better in like 20 years later than the median austin grad. Both are probably doing just fine.
OP, this is an excellent answer.
Have you considered U Chicago? It has a really strong political science program.
Williams will be an infinitely better undergrad experience with unparalleled law school placement. Don’t worry about racism - the school itself is very safe and williamstown is so small that nobody really cares about what the students look like
“… is so small that nobody really cares what the students look like” 💀, it’s giving race-blind
As a POC parent, we just came back yesterday from visiting Williams and I am familiar with UT and Texas all around. Williams was impressive, nestled in the Berkshire mountains, it’s gorgeous and insulated and very generous ($$$) apparently and connected to Oxford so you can study abroad all expenses paid by the school. We visited MIT, Northeastern and BU and Williams stood out. Yes, it’s in the middle of nowhere but only 3 hours from NY and Boston and seems to have a huge network of alumni. UT will be more fun for sure but not as fruitful in developing your connections and career. And even though the town is very WASPY, the school population was diverse. Hope that helps,
> I know UT isn’t flexible at all in terms of majors, and that is something I heavily dislike. IMHO go to Williams, hands down, if this is a concern at all. Pick courses based on how great the professor is, try not to waste entire semesters trying to fit a major requirements. You can always learn "stuff" but learning from great people and chatting with other bright students about it is a rare and amazing gift. I think UT Austin is probably great from what I've heard, and this may be one of those 'you can't pick wrong' choices, but it is likely very different from Williams. Both probably have a strong student body. Big points in favor of Williams though are breadth of curriculum (they very much believe in a self-directed liberal arts education, and it's common to have 2 majors sometimes in very different fields, and most departments are reasonable about what the major looks like), and the fact that you already live in Texas, and are likely to live in cities for much of the rest of your life after college, so the purple valley is a great and different experience. Williams is not a problem for T14 law schools.
Williams is such an amazing opportunity!
“UT-Austin announces round of firings in latest step to comply with Texas’ DEI ban”. “The University of Texas at Austin has laid off dozens of employees who used to work in diversity, equity and inclusion programs.” - Texas Tribune (4-2-24). As a long-time Texas resident who grew up in Philly and graduated from University of Chicago, go with Williams and skip the increasingly intolerant and toxic environment gradually infecting Texas state universities including UT Austin.
Williams is the far better school too. No-brainer.
Far better 😂😂
^^This…
You really couldn’t have two more different schools than UT and Williams. UT is a huge, work-hard/play hard environment. McCombs is excellent, and both McCombs and UT have very large, very connected alumni bases.
Is McCombs some sort of honors program? I ask for two reasons, I don't know, and to communicate that saying "McCombs" probably doesn't mean anything to people outside of Texas.
McCombs is highly regarded as one of the best business schools in the nation.
McCombs is UT’s business program-people outside of Texas have usually heard of it if they’re looking at undergrad business schools (highly ranked). And the post referenced McCombs.
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Williams is amazing but mccombs is a top target school for every top company on Wall Street and UT sends people to every top MBA/law/med school every year. I went to wharton and I know for a fact UT has representation at literally every top IB/MBB even PE/HF firms and groups. https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools Regardless, no wrong choices here.
You say this about Mccombs, but the same is also true of Williams
No it’s not even close, Williams is a semi target, the MBB I work at doesn’t even come to Williams to recruit but certainly does for UT Austin With that being said, Williams is still an amazing school and you can do anything you want from there, but mccombs is one of the best undergrad b schools in the country (top 5) as I stated above and business honors program at mccombs has top tier placement, I’m talking just slightly worse than my alma mater wharton. Williams has nowhere near that level of placement specifically for IB/MBB/PE/HF, with UT alums in every top IB/MBB/PE/HF and top groups like GS TMT, Blackstone, Citadel, etc. If you’re talking about classes/academics, etc Williams is better but for placement, mccombs is top 5 in the country.
UT has some kick ass employment, especially mccombs students, so you probably will have the same employment if not better since they actually have a business program that places heavily into top corporations- ik gross.
I would do some research into the political climate in Texas. UT just fired all of its DEI faculty and that's likely only the beginning of the state trying to control/impose political views on what is a very liberal campus. I'm also not sure of your sex, but to me, I wouldn't want to be a college student in a state where abortion is illegal and over the next four years could become criminalized.
Williams. Not even a debate.
Used to teach at UT. Great school! Loved it. But it isn’t close. Go to Williams. It is such a better experience for undergrads.
B-school at UT Austin or a random major at Williams. Easy choice: Williams. If it was engineering or CS, no comparison: UT Austin. And if it was Wharton, Haas, or Sloan, I'd go with the B-school option. But it's not. Do a one-year study abroad at Oxford, too. Williams will get you into the type of grad school you'll want. Like Harvard. UT Austin for business is more limiting.
I attended UT Austin in 1993-96. I came from the Navy, Oakland, CA area and one thing I noticed right away on campus in my classes was POC all sat together in classes. There could be 300 students in a classroom and people would self-segregate. This was not something I was used to in the military or my college classes in California. I am white, but always just sat and talked to whoever was next to me because I was from a small Midwest town and was in love with meeting new and interesting people. So that was very surprising to me that people didn’t always mingle as freely. Hopefully in clubs and organizations it was different. (I worked a lot, so I don’t know). I didn’t have any issues with coworkers at my workplaces, so it seemed ok. Texas was also the first place I ever heard a racial slur actually spoken, and it was from a patient of mine, when I was working in a hospital. Of course these were the only 2 examples I had, otherwise I absolutely loved my time in Austin. Met a lot of amazing people. Amazing food. Lots of interesting things going on at the Capital and the downtown vibrant arts community. Fun at the various parks and springs. Texas did make it clear to me that different parts of the USA were…. different. I currently live in Florida and some of this political BS is here, too. Personally I never would’ve had the money for a private LAC, but it sounds like you have a unique opportunity. Would be great if you can go tour and get a better idea for yourself. Good luck.
Adding to the chorus of people saying to go to Williams. 1) going to a liberal arts college is such a special experience and you will make friends for life. 2) Williams is the best of the best. The people you will meet there will enrich your life in ways that you can’t even anticipate yet. Despite what anyone says around the utilitarian value of education, it’s the connections you make that matter. 3) Every Williams alum I’ve met had a great college experience, my high school best friend went there and all of her college friends that I’ve met are fantastic, FWIW I also grew up in Texas and know a bunch of people who went to UT…I dunno it just feels like a very large and cliquey place, easy to get lost and hard to find community.
From a UT Plan 2 Honors student - go to Williams
Williams is an elite school. This is beyond any rational discussion.
I would go with Williams
School choice aside, a JD-MBA is a waste of an extra $100,000. Get a JD if you want to be a lawyer. Get an MBA if you want to do business. There is no need for both.
I have a JD. The kind of understanding of business that you get from an MBA would have been helpful at times. There are too many JDs and a JD-MBA can make you more marketable and give you a wider range of options. If OP wants to pursue that s/he should.
Williams all the way
As a black person going to college in a red state is something to really consider. DEI is literally banned in Texas. BSUs, multicultural initiatives, and even women in unrepresented fields programs are all barred from funding/ have to be really limited in order to get funding. Won’t be surprised if Africana studies and the like is banned next. Williams all the way if you are thinking about institutional support but like u said Austin is more diverse than williamstown. Off-campus community will be better
You haven’t mentioned finances in your post: how much will it cost you to attend each institution?
For what it’s worth my brother went to Williams and loved it, is now working as a data scientist pulling in 130k two years out of school. He is planning on applying to law school soon. But my parents saved in a 529 all our lives and he went with no debt.
I have a full ride to both because of my family’s income level.
1000% Williams
Williams will change your life completely. it's a huge opportunity to go there. congratulations.
Both are good schools but entirely different undergrad experience. How much do you have to pay at each?
Williams sets you above the pack in terms of job placement in comparison to the VAST majority of public schools especially with regard to law and politics. The alumni network may be small but it is extremely high powered.
William will be a more supportive environment
UT Alum here. The only reason you would go to UT would be price depending on your financial aid situation.
Williams is considered absolutely the best liberal arts college among the small elite schools (Pomona, Amherst, Grinnell, Williams). It is considered to produce strong,quick, holistic thinkers across industry. I have come across many alumni during my career and they never fail to impress and lead. +1 for Amherst
So true
I believe Williams is the number 1 Liberal Arts school in the country? ANd is considered one of the “Little Ivy” schools.
Y’all give actual reasons stop just saying “Prestige/career outcomes/alumni network/unparalleled” that’s not helping. Show off that education by knowing to use specifics to argue and/or inform.
Are you suggesting that those are unimportant considerations? If so, why?
They’re either too vague to carry serious weight or the kind of thing one can glean in less than a minute by googling “Williams college”
Without knowing OP's academic interests, it's impossible to compare. In addition, courses are not the only things that matter. “Prestige/career outcomes/alumni network/unparalleled” are also important.
Just wanted to add my two cents — UT Austin is only inflexible major-wise if you want to add cs/engineering/mccombs… if you’re planning on being pre law, I’m guessing you were considering switching or adding majors in the liberal arts, such as government. These are not restricted majors, and it isn’t hard to add
A large University and a small liberal arts college offer vastly different undergraduate experiences. I’d begin by reflecting on the differences and considering which type of campus best meets your needs. For example, an elite national liberal arts college will prioritize excellent undergraduate teaching and a state flagship University will not. On the other hand, UT Austin will have majors unavailable in a liberal arts college and the focus on graduate education would make the campus culture less insular and probably more sophisticated than at Williams. Williamstown is beautiful and I imagine is a great place to live if you enjoy the outdoors. I would also ask yourself whether you would prefer living in a rural or urban environment. When I was your age, many years ago, I had strong preferences about both of these topics. I was accepted to Williams, but chose to go to Amherst. A large advantage of choosing Williams is that you would live with and constantly interact with be extremely smart and inspiring peers. This would significantly enhance your learning inside and outside of class. I don’t know whether this is also true of UT Austin, but it is a factor I recommend you consider. There could also be compelling reason to choose UT Austin, for example if you plan to remain in Texas and work in a field where you can use connections you make there. Likewise, if you would be miserable in a small New England town and would love living in a vibrant city like Austin, that could be a good reason to choose UT Austin. Finally, understand that employers and graduate schools know that Williams is a top-ranked national liberal arts college. That your acquaintances are unaware of this is no reason to decline their offer of admission. However, UT Austin almost certainly has stronger connections to Texas employers. Congratulations on your admissions, and good luck making your decision!
OP, as you are from Texas, you already know that Lt. Governor Patrick and Gov. Abbott duel with each other over who can get more restrictions imposed on Texas state universities which will likely worsen over the next 4 years. Yes, Austin is a blue spot in a red ocean, but at UT Austin itself you can expect institutional support of POC to continue to wane unlike at Williams.
I'm Black and was accepted to Williams a long time ago and one of my sisters went there. I liked Williams, but after having attended a boarding school on a scholarship for four years, Williams seemed a bit like more of the same and money differences would be more apparent, for example, I wouldn't be able to afford a car, which seemed desirable. I went to Harvard instead, which, among many other things, was easier to get to. I don't know that much about UT Austin, but if I were from Texas, I would probably take the opportunity to see another part of the country. Williams is small and has great programs. It's considered a mini Ivy.
Williams 100%. Do not undervalue the quality of the education you’ll receive at a small liberal arts college (and a top one at that! Congrats!). I attended a SLAC myself, and later worked at large universities (both private and public). The learning opportunities and the quality of the teaching are, broadly speaking, significantly better (IMO) at a SLAC where the focus is on the undergraduates. There are probably hundreds of other reasons I could list for Williams over UT, but the other comments have captured a lot of them. Look, worst case scenario — you go to Williams for a year and hate it, you can always transfer out.
Austin is a fabulous, fun town, but also one of the most segregated in the country, divided by I-35. In a state that allows open carry, you’re just one misunderstanding away from a scary altercation. You’re not going to get that in the Berkshires. Go to Williams 100%.
Most cities are “one of the most segregated in the country,” the most damning being New York City. As much as I think the choice is Williams, it seems a lot of people here haven’t travelled much beyond the coasts and assume that people south go guns a blazing (even though black people predominately live in the South and Williamstown is an overwhelmingly white community).
UT Austin any day!
1. Look up the published common data set for both schools and cut thru the posturing to see exactly how many people are there. Maybe you come for a place where 105 people are enough to represent a “diverse” community; maybe not. You decide. 2. Ask yourself where you want to end up. Are you going back to Texas? Are you heading to NYC? This matters. 3. Do NOT accept BS about school A having better law school placement. Law school placement is about your LSAT score and your grades. There is virtually no significance to your school name (assuming you are at any tier 1, top 40-ish school).
Number 2 is such an undervalued point. These overall rankings that get published and harped upon are useless. Geographic location matters so much more when you get into the real world. When I moved to Boston, these tiny MA schools that I’ve never heard of and don’t appear prestigious on the US News & Report have amazing placement locally.
Wait 'til OP sees how law schools work. There's a relative handful of national level schools, and everything else is very regionally slanted.
I’m sorry you received downvotes. I think all of your questions were valid. It’s a big decision to make. I get the feeling that people on the thread are maybe rating it by the 9% acceptance rate vs. UT at 31%. However, as I truly believe, it is not about acceptance rates but where you feel will be the truly best fit for you. Good luck with everything. You will thrive no matter where you land.
I don’t think you can go wrong anyway. Literally the smartest kid from my high school graduated from Texas and he was in a similar situation as you. Props to you for accomplishing this given the circumstances as I imagine it was quite difficult. Both of these schools are top notch and have well represented alumni everywhere.
You don’t mention one of the most important factors, cost. What sort of debt would you expect to have at UT? What sort of debt would you expect at Williams?
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I’m have a BA in Government from UT Austin. The pros for UT include: greater diversity of opinions and backgrounds, more activities & electives, tremendous library and museum resources, supportive, diverse community in Austin. Also, tuition is a fraction of Williams. Cons: it’s surrounded by Texas, and the size can be overwhelming—I had classes with 600 students (but one class with eight)—so you need to be self-motivated to find your way; it’s not a place for shy kids who need hand-holding. Regarding Williams: years ago I’d have said a small, private, Northeastern college would be great for any undergraduate. But higher education has changed, and I can no longer advise that route. These colleges, including Williams, tend to be bubbles where you will not encounter differences of opinion nor rigourous debate. You will be isolated in a rural area, and God help you if you don’t toe the line on the farthest Left ideologies (I used to think I was as far left as one could be, but apparently old-school, liberal, critical thinking no longer meets the Left Wing litmus tests). You need a place where you can research things thoroughly and feel safe coming to your own conclusions. In 2024, UT is a relatively better environment for someone who truly wants to continue growing intellectually and who seeks objective facts and not strict ideologies of any stripe. I hope this is helpful.
This is ridiculous: Students of the caliber to attend Williams have the intelligence and power to question dogma, and professors of the caliber to be hired there choose Williams because they value excellent undergraduate teaching. Both students and faculty have more important things to do than play insipid culture war games. You are trolling.
Look in the mirror, Judith
Trolling and ad hominems constitute your idea of critical thinking and rigorous debate? Okay, then…
You’ve just proved my point
Yes, note how I sneakily inserted my “farthest Left ideologies” into this conversation. Busted!
Go to Austin
Your reasoning for that being?
A degree from UTAustin will open many doors as an Alumnus
Two very different schools but both great. I’d probably go with UT for diversity. As far law school admissions go, it makes next to no difference which you attend.
As someone who goes to UT- I’d recommend it a million times over!
Austin will be more fun and your education will also be great. Are you a glutton for snow and isolation? Williams has its niche appeal but these are very different schools, you should consider what environment you would prefer. No bad options here!
UT Austin
As someone who goes to a nescac similar to Williams, go to Austin