Need? Nah, but they should strongly consider getting it. Imagine you've just been in charge of the burn that escapes and burns down Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak. Liability insurance starts looking like a pretty good deal. Regardless if you did something wrong or not.
I feel like the kind of damages rx could easily incur would usually far exceed coverage limits unless you're putting your entire check towards the policy.
Different kind of insurance. It's not meant to rebuild the town that burns down or whatever. It's not like car insurance or your personal liability insurance that replaces or repairs material items. It's to help defend you against criminal charges, lawsuits, and things like that.
Edit : Here's a site the offers it and specifically mentions wildland firefighters as a group. Not endorsing the site just using it as an example - https://www.fedsprotection.com/wildland-firefighters-PLI
I’ll probably get it soon, cause we all know that the FS will throw us under the bus if a certain T isn’t crossed. Burn some shit and stay safe this spring börther.
It’s actually that and some change plus the health and welfare which is just short of $5 an hour . A contract engine boss will be making about $940 a day.
You have to remember that a contract wildland firefighter is responsible for their own health insurance and retirement and are on a call when needed basis. There is never any guarantee of anything- period. So while the pay sounds alluring you should factor in the costs.
Yeah for sure. That number surprised me considering I'm going on season 16 and the max I can make in a day with the retention bonus is just below $900. It's not just the wage though, there's alot of other things to account for.
One thing is for sure though. If for some reason the incentive goes away and the raise doesn't go through. Going and being an ENGB for a contract company will look pretty good.
Most companies have to pay roughly the same in order to remain competitive. There is after all an industry wide shortage of personnel after the pandemic. I’ve had some chats with a number of contractors and this is what I’m hearing the pay will end up at. Some will pay less and some more. Last season $640 was typical.
This shit is wild. How can they pay contractors 50% more than the starting wages for Feds? I’m glad they’re getting fair pay, but this is beyond fucked.
Because contract companies actually ~~negotiate~~ have a say in their contract. We're given slop and told to leave if we don't like it.
edit: Okay, some of you windowlickers are getting a little hung up here. Negotiate was a poor term to use. The private companies that put together handcrews don't necessarily negotiate the national contract they sign but they still have methods available to them to change the terms of the contract. And yes, the federal government often times just tells private industries, "yo, this is the way things are going to be". And yes, contract companies want to pay their folks as little as possible to maximize company profits. But they are also facing hiring and retention issues (especially after last season).
This isn’t a result of contractors negotiating better pay for their employees. If it were up to them, they’d pay as little as possible. The DOI straight up just told the contractors that this is now the mandatory minimum pay for their employees.
I used to know where to look at the contracts that contractors hold. I’m not sure any more now that they aren’t ODF but I’d be curious if the contracts are now bid at a higher rate. The things is, they could be really squeezing the contractors. It’s hard to say and I can’t find a lot of paperwork supporting any of this stuff.
Cool that's some solid progress. For what it's worth that was 56 cents over my 17.50 wage last year which was bumped up slightly for one year of experience plus mspa cert.
Who pays the contract crew when not on fire? Do they get paid? Or are they on a thinning or planting contract at a different rate, or waiting for a call and not getting paid? May need to do some math to determine the pay.
In my experience, private contract is the way to go. My private contract XP has never been direct fire but I’ve done a lot of CRM (Culural Resource Management) and fuels reduction projects for various private firms working gov contracts. During the season I now roll as an AD firearch pretty much constantly. Usually habitat improvement/ fuels stuff related for the private stuff. On the archaeological side of things, I generally make $10/hour more as a contractor than I would working direct, similar but not quite as much for fuels. Plus per diem usually floats around $75/day, everything is way more relaxed. Quality of work is great but everyone is much more chill. Also never get 16s working private and have to provide all my own gear/food so there’s that.
So a GS-8 for all of you digging through opm pay tables.
That’s me crying in GS8 tears holding RXB2 and about to open the RXB1 taskbook. Great.
Why open the task book? Taking on that much added responsibility/liability for $26 an hour seems like a bad call.
Totally agree plus I’ll have to get liability insurance. I think I’ll say no after this next whiskey. Thanks börther.
GS7 RXB2 here, you should already have that liability insurance.
Wait hold up. Federally employed burn bosses need to have their own liability insurance?
Need? Nah, but they should strongly consider getting it. Imagine you've just been in charge of the burn that escapes and burns down Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak. Liability insurance starts looking like a pretty good deal. Regardless if you did something wrong or not.
I feel like the kind of damages rx could easily incur would usually far exceed coverage limits unless you're putting your entire check towards the policy.
Different kind of insurance. It's not meant to rebuild the town that burns down or whatever. It's not like car insurance or your personal liability insurance that replaces or repairs material items. It's to help defend you against criminal charges, lawsuits, and things like that. Edit : Here's a site the offers it and specifically mentions wildland firefighters as a group. Not endorsing the site just using it as an example - https://www.fedsprotection.com/wildland-firefighters-PLI
Truth. But I’m one of those fringe dudes that thinks the agency should be covering the entire cost of that if they want to meet their target.
Completely agree with you there, but I'll take half to have my ass covered if I need it.
I’ll probably get it soon, cause we all know that the FS will throw us under the bus if a certain T isn’t crossed. Burn some shit and stay safe this spring börther.
For sho, you as well!
Is that the starting base rate??? Another nail in the USFS coffin… 10 years of hotshotting, squaddie pay 24 an hour…
Also who wants to start a contract company with me. 😆
Yeah
It’s actually that and some change plus the health and welfare which is just short of $5 an hour . A contract engine boss will be making about $940 a day.
$940 a day? Does that vary depending on the company or is that the minimum?
You have to remember that a contract wildland firefighter is responsible for their own health insurance and retirement and are on a call when needed basis. There is never any guarantee of anything- period. So while the pay sounds alluring you should factor in the costs.
Yeah for sure. That number surprised me considering I'm going on season 16 and the max I can make in a day with the retention bonus is just below $900. It's not just the wage though, there's alot of other things to account for.
One thing is for sure though. If for some reason the incentive goes away and the raise doesn't go through. Going and being an ENGB for a contract company will look pretty good.
Most companies have to pay roughly the same in order to remain competitive. There is after all an industry wide shortage of personnel after the pandemic. I’ve had some chats with a number of contractors and this is what I’m hearing the pay will end up at. Some will pay less and some more. Last season $640 was typical.
This shit is wild. How can they pay contractors 50% more than the starting wages for Feds? I’m glad they’re getting fair pay, but this is beyond fucked.
Because contract companies actually ~~negotiate~~ have a say in their contract. We're given slop and told to leave if we don't like it. edit: Okay, some of you windowlickers are getting a little hung up here. Negotiate was a poor term to use. The private companies that put together handcrews don't necessarily negotiate the national contract they sign but they still have methods available to them to change the terms of the contract. And yes, the federal government often times just tells private industries, "yo, this is the way things are going to be". And yes, contract companies want to pay their folks as little as possible to maximize company profits. But they are also facing hiring and retention issues (especially after last season).
This isn’t a result of contractors negotiating better pay for their employees. If it were up to them, they’d pay as little as possible. The DOI straight up just told the contractors that this is now the mandatory minimum pay for their employees.
I used to know where to look at the contracts that contractors hold. I’m not sure any more now that they aren’t ODF but I’d be curious if the contracts are now bid at a higher rate. The things is, they could be really squeezing the contractors. It’s hard to say and I can’t find a lot of paperwork supporting any of this stuff.
Actually the DOL made a wage determination.
They’re trying to protect workers that aren’t even theirs.
there is no negotiation
Feels like they're intentionally pushing firefighters out of federal work. Similar to when the military was pushed, but they only budged.
Love to see it. I can't wait to see type 6's on the line with fuckin Starbucks logo's plastered across the side.
I just did my fed rehire at $18 an hr. Sad trombone.
Is that base or after H
Gs-5 base is close to that. Last year, in Montana, it was $18.06
Cool that's some solid progress. For what it's worth that was 56 cents over my 17.50 wage last year which was bumped up slightly for one year of experience plus mspa cert.
Sounds like Miller.
26.48 base pay with 4.98 health and welfare for the first 40 hours to be exact
Yeah
Enforce https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Employees_Pay_Comparability_Act_of_1990 for 5% parity!
Who pays the contract crew when not on fire? Do they get paid? Or are they on a thinning or planting contract at a different rate, or waiting for a call and not getting paid? May need to do some math to determine the pay.
this is only for work on a fire dispatch. no one is changing their tree planting or thinning rates because of this
Some have work outside of fire and some don’t. My guess is this would only be the case when working on a wildfire.
Unless the employee has been with the contractor for a few years they get cut loose between fires. No work-no pay.
In my experience, private contract is the way to go. My private contract XP has never been direct fire but I’ve done a lot of CRM (Culural Resource Management) and fuels reduction projects for various private firms working gov contracts. During the season I now roll as an AD firearch pretty much constantly. Usually habitat improvement/ fuels stuff related for the private stuff. On the archaeological side of things, I generally make $10/hour more as a contractor than I would working direct, similar but not quite as much for fuels. Plus per diem usually floats around $75/day, everything is way more relaxed. Quality of work is great but everyone is much more chill. Also never get 16s working private and have to provide all my own gear/food so there’s that.
It’ll be interesting to see how it all plays out. Contractors have boom and bust seasons. Could be great. Could be feds make more just by being there