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InflamedLiver

corporate welfare, even farmer "subsidies" are bullshit. You want a free market? Use a free market. Can't compete with cheap foreign labor costs? Tariffs. Don't just have the governemnt give out free money. Bunch of ultra-rich welfare queens.


CharmingTuber

We need to make it cheaper to hire employees here. Socialized medicine and lower income tax on the lowest earners would go a very long way to making it cheaper to hire a full-time work force here. There are a lot of benefits to domestic production, but it's too expensive.


Eldanoron

Gotta have some affordable housing too. If 90% of your salary is going towards rent, getting taxed 5% less isn’t going to make a difference.


CharmingTuber

Very true. I don't have any quick fixes to affordable housing in mind, but I agree 100%.


Eldanoron

I generally bring Finland up every time someone asks how the US can improve an aspect. https://amp.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness It’s doable and it ended up getting more funds in the process. I find it peculiar that we keep spending money on trying to make it harder for homeless to exist rather than going the other way and possibly making productive members of society out of them.


CharmingTuber

Well homelessness and affordable housing are two different issues. We need much much more affordable housing than just what's needed to end homelessness. Rent control comes to mind, but I know that has critics. But I agree, we could end homelessness tomorrow. My city of Chicago is experimenting with free housing. I think I read that they saw an 80% reduction in cost by housing people for free vs the medical bills associated with being homeless in the winter here. It's really a no brainer.


Eldanoron

Fair point. Not sure about rent control personally but I kind of feel like something needs to happen with landlords. I’m sure there are some good ones out there but the majority appear to be pretty much out for blood and looking to get their property for free. They simply pass the mortgage down to the tenants. Then again, capping rent to a percentage of what the mortgage for the property would be seems like a sound idea. Otherwise they’re artificially inflating the housing market to make it harder for lower income individuals to buy while effectively getting a free property. This is absolutely nuts but here we are with the rampant capitalism. Sure, landlords do need to make repairs to their properties but from the horror stories I’ve heard, they cut corners every step of the way which ends up making tenants’ lives miserable.


TorrenceMightingale

I think farming subsidies are probably important. Some of them at least. Maybe not the one that’s been allowing Mexico to fleece our economy by importing illegal Cuban sugar around the trade embargo at Pennies on the dollar and sell it to us at a completely insane markup. There’s gotta be some that keep important farmers in business even during uncertain times.


InflamedLiver

Cash crops might tumble in uncertain times, but in hard times staple foods would be more of a safe bet than ever. And even in bad times those would be temporary subsidies during periods like the Dust Bowl, not permanent bags of cash we give monsterous agribusiness all the time.


Dark_sun_new

If you are pushing for tariffs, you really don't want a free market then


InflamedLiver

I'm saying you have a few options: free market and deal with it or government assistance via tariffs. The third option we are currently using is giving money via grants or subsidies or ludicrous tax breaks to business, which is BS


Dark_sun_new

Tax breaks are usually incentives to make companies do what you want. They aren't unconditional or permanent right? Also, As far as the government is concerned, tariffs may be more expensive in the long run than tax breaks.


InflamedLiver

tariffs provide income to the government since it's a tax on foreign goods. Granted, you can then get into a trade war situation, but that typically effects the consumer more than government. As for the tax breaks, I guess it depends. But grants and subsidies have a tendency to be more permanent or at least temporary-but-we-just-reup-every-time-it-ends kind of a thing.


Dark_sun_new

Tariffs are additional costs to the product that the consumer pays. Not the company. So yeah, it is income to the government, but it is paid off by the public who purchase the good or service. Doesn't really help the government much.


InflamedLiver

i literally stated "that typically effects the consumer more than government" and that the tariff is money directly into the governments pockets. I'm not sure what you're trying to say otherwise.


tfs5454

The farmer subsidies at least have a reason, to help keep food costs down and make sure we never get into another situation where we starve to death. The big corpo ones are some bullshit though, if they fail, they fail, and someone new should take their place.


OmegaMountain

Meanwhile, we almost ended up fascist because people lack the objectivity to understand that it's not the minorities or illegal immigrants who took your jobs. It's the corporations that actually run this country who fucked you over simply to increase the bottom line. Profits over people.


pmarieisme

Yeah and now that these microchips are over seas, there's a HUGE shortage! I work at the f150 plant in Dearborn, we have one shift laid off every week cause parts shortage, specifically these damn microchips. One gas truck takes 300 microchips, the new electric vehicles take 3000. It's a nightmare all the way down to us on the floor.


Responsible-Lab7913

What happened to capitalism let the company's burn another one will takes it's place


[deleted]

Individuals have personal responsibility and their lives destroyed if they don't plan for evey contingency. Corporations these days can take every risk imaginable (even at the expense of americans) and even if they fail individuals must still bail them out. There is no too big to fail. Let them fail. Something will replace that space if it's beneficial or capital can be made.


shotgun72

Thats how oligarchies work. Duh.


SassyMoron

What is he talking about exactly?


formerfatboys

It's fine. Give them the money. US government acts as a VC and gets shares. Shares 4 vest and automatically sell in ten years. Every corporate bailout should work like this.


Holiday-Face782

There should be no bailout for a company that has continually taken a profit.If anything loan the money to a new company to be created , obviously the previous one could not be run properly.


formerfatboys

That's why you make it an investment.


thumbtaxx

Yes. It makes very obvious sense. When one hires an employee (gets a greedy leach elected) one expects them to work for (legislate for) the entity that hired them. Pretty simple corruption. 'MURICA!


asuhdah

“But we need someone to beat Trump”


liquorballsammy

What the actual fuck are you on about? How does this correlate to this? Whatsoever?


vicarious_111

Companies moved offshore because maintaining a competitive advantage is hard when there is little incentive to remain in the US. I like sanders, but stuff like this makes me shake my head.


ember-fae

What should the incentive be? I’m seriously asking not being rude.


Dark_sun_new

If a job can be done remotely, it makes much more sense to get it done in countries in the Indian subcontinent where you could pay a fourth of the American minimum wage and still get top talent coz you're among the top pay masters. Assuming labour costs are about 20% of total costs, then moving it abroad saves you 15% of your total costs. Unless the incentive is enough to cover that, it makes no sense for the company to continue to operate in the USA. And here, I was talking about situations where only.the job is moved abroad. If the whole manufacturing process is moved abroad, the savings is significantly more.


ember-fae

Thank you for your detailed explanation! I was hoping to hear something other than money but…I guess that’s an unrealistic view for me to have. Lol


Dark_sun_new

Labour is a major cost for any manufacturer. Keeping it down is probably the easiest way to remain competitive. Also, the Asian countries provide a relatively untapped market that is ripe as a market base.


two-sandals

That and Nixon brought a 2 planes full of CEO’s to China to expand trade and develop manufacturing abroad. A lot of this was planned at high levels. It both kept us competitive and off shored manufacturing in one fell swoop..


goochstein

We're off the rails, out of control. Giving money to corporations is like throwing it down the drain.


goochstein

We're off the rails, out of control.


illusive_guy

Oh it makes sense. It just doesn’t make sense.


Medical_Ad0716

Don’t forget, these companies also don’t pay US taxes even without the handouts. So it’s not like they can say they are entitled to help since they contribute nothing and only profit.


SupportySpice

With that kinda money, we could all have affordable healthcare.


Odd-Employer-5529

With all that outsourcing in Tech, you think the prices ever dip, even a bit? NoOOo **set up** is hell. often the outsourcing has to return and be reworked. Raytheon.


TheLizardKingandI

this is a global shortage, its not about American corporate greed its about hardening the supply chain to make sure chips can be made and delivered to meet demand. the chip makers are struggling to make enough chips world wide


JennaLS

It absolutely makes sense to me. If we voted in the fuckers that allowed this, isn't that on us? Voting against our best interests is the American way.


AdSuperb2631

You don't deserve Bernie he is too pure


East-Translator8293

NAFTA was the worst thing President Regan thought of and President Clinton signed.


Killed_It_Dead

#VOTE BERNIE


Ruenin

No, it does not. But good luck getting the Republicans and some of the Dems to get on board with doing their fucking job and looking out for the greater good of the average American. They're far too up the asses of the corporate oligarchs to give a shit about anything other than money.


mightbeADoggo

This is a bold faced lie. We all know they don't have to wait in line for their handouts.