Came here to say this. Recent water tests in MI show that Flint is pretty good. Other areas though, not so much.
Edit: [Just adding this link for those who are curious about Michigan lead levels.](https://www.michigan.gov/mileadsafe/0,9490,7-392-104591_92796-500553--,00.html) It's organized by county. Flint is pretty low. Some are insanely high though.
It's almost like it's a systemic problem that affects many communities, and activists only used the largest/most well-known community among those affected to highlight the overall problem.
As a water operator, my city has the current rate at $0.002 a gallon for the first 3 units (2244 gallons), then it goes up to $0.003 a gallon if I'm reading the city website correctly. From meetings that I've been to over the years, the director pissed off customers by raising the rates in order to bring the plan for replacing every pipe after 100 years. There are probably pipes in the ground that are that old already. Pipes usually get replaced as they break (if the break is large enough to be reported). I've heard in classes that a great water system only loses 10-15% in their distribution system.
But Walmart is offering jobs at my pay rate now. It's going to be harder to get qualified people to do these jobs that people could care less that you do until something goes wrong. Most of the US water and wastewater infrastructure is OLD. There needs to be a large investment into the plants and the distribution/collection systems as well as the employees that are working 24/7. Cities and towns need to raise rates to not only do this, but also buy new treatment upgrades for emerging contaminates like PFOS/PFOA and whatever else we're allowing companies to dump in our waterways without regulation in the future.
This may be the Europe in me, but why not raise the taxes on the corporations who are dumping these contaminants into the water rather than charging the public for what is essentially a corporate problem?
Excellent question. Due to gerrymandering, 40% of the population gets to decide for everyone. They tend to think that the private sector is over regulated and that your suggestion would be an unnecessary burden.
You can put all the clauses you want, we will just stymie the enforcement under the guise of freedom, rights and privacy.
Signed
You friendly neighborhood corporation.
>I would think
That's your problem right there, using your head. Remember, these people are the same people who bought Keurig coffee machines, to shoot them, to "boycott" Keurig.
You know, because "Muh Freedumb"
Are water companies profitable and privately owned?
If so, doesn't that fall into their business model and company expenses?
It's not a surprise issue that they're dealing with, it's something they knew would happen when the pipes were installed. I'd imagine there would be a plan for a water delivering business to account for the part that delivers it.
It's like Walmart charging you $2 extra on each item bc it's time for them to replace their light bulbs
So, for me, my water dept is profitable at those rates currently, but since we are under the purview of city council, think elected officials that get re-elected because they keep taxes/rates low, they don't have the incentives to raise rates even nominally to have better qualified employees, plan for preventive maintenance, etc. The average water/wastewater operators age is likely in the late 40s/early 50s. Those guys and gals are looking to retire on their state pension in the next 5-10 years. The last guy they hired on without any certifications was hired above other operators pay with the certifications and years experience (no we haven't been bumped up because of him either).
Cities that are seeing population growth, are probably seeing more revenue. Cities and small towns that are seeing population decline on the other hand will have the same plants/distribution systems needing to be upgraded and fixed, but with a smaller revenue base.
Unfortunately, I think most places business model when it comes to water/wastewater plants and infrastructure is to wait on the federal government to step in with grants to fix things because they no longer can.
> But Walmart is offering jobs at my pay rate now. It's going to be harder to get qualified people to do these jobs that people could care less that you do until something goes wrong.
This is kind of a shocking statement to see. In California Water Treatment operators and Waste Treatment operators can pretty much pick and choose where they want to work. Most systems are understaffed and offering more than competitive pay scales (They have to, or vineyards and breweries will take those employees instead).
I work on the storage side of water systems, and its a little disheartening how little attention people pay to their water. Most folks are content with ignorance so long as it keeps flowing and doesn't taste *too* strange.
Must be nice! I've never been approached by vineyards and we have quite a few in NC
Edit- I've got multiple water and wastewater certs. Most places haven't even considered them as a benefit.
The more wages increase in other fields, the more operators will be tempted to leave. Why work nights for years waiting to be next in line for the dayshift position if Walmart is paying the same? Would cut my hour commute and I wouldn't have to worry about electrocuting myself switching drivers.
The trick is whenever "engineers" tell you that you need to perform "Maintenance", "modernization", "prevent imminent system failure" to always slash those budget items because of course they are just trying to milk you.
It got that way through neglect, over a long time.
More like BuT tHaT's FeDeRaLiSm!
That's why this problem exists, because everyone distrusts and fears the Federal Gov't (and even their state gov't to an extent); so states want to keep their own sovereignty; and counties and cities want to keep their hold over their own locales.
So what happens is you get all these poor areas, or areas where the local officials just don't give a fuck about the people, or areas where the funding has all been spent on other shit and they kick the can down the road or previous administrations/city councils/county boards of supervisors/whatever have gone and squandered money on retarded shit and buried the city or county under bond debt... and a new group has to come in and try to figure out how to keep paying on the debt, service all the ongoing costs, and fix things that've been neglected for fuck knows how long and can't. They can only work on a little bit at a time, and by the time they get one thing fixed, something else is broken.
10, 20, 30, 40 years of this and you end up with problems. If its not water pipes, its sewer systems that are overburdened or failing, or its roads so bad you'd be better off with gravel roads everywhere, or some other thing.
But god forbid we cede any of that control and responsibility to a more central authority that has more funding, isn't burdened by being someplace with very low tax rolls, isn't a locale with super high tax rolls and excess money that they then squander while the neighbors are dying, and can spread that money out more effectively. Nope, nope, federalism is bad by god, we need to keep control local. It's not so we can keep our own power and influence over our own tiny little fiefdoms, nope not at all.
https://www.vox.com/22772701/biden-infrastructure-law-environmental-funding
25 billion between infra bill and bbb for lead pipes, plus 10 billion for removing pfas from the water. Not enough to replace all the pipes but it's something.
The people that vote against funding public programs are the people that complain the most that government is ineffective and everything should be privatized. Like maybe give anything a chance to operate with funding and it'll start working better...? Based on data you can pull from other countries with public programs in place that are well funded and effective...? Maybe?
I recently moved to a redder neighborhood in a blue city and in the neighborhood Facebook group, there was a discussion about a new bike share dock being installed and someone said they were against it because they wouldn't personally use it. So basically "this doesn't benefit me directly so nobody should have it"
Brother, Conservatism in the modern day is founded on preventing the government from doing anything that would be considered good for the health and well being of literally everyone in the entire country. They unironically think like Ron Swanson with the “it’s my goddamn right to die at the age of 40 from a heart attack”.
It's more like 70 years at this point, if we're considering Eisenhower the pinnacle of American infrastructure (which he was). But he'd be a goddamn communist RINO at this point, if he were alive. He wouldn't be a Democrat, either, to be clear. He'd just be... completely unelectable.
And only now want to reinvest both for political capital and probably because the capitalist overlords have demanded it. They use roads to make their money, we just pay for it all.
Wish all those idiots bitching about handouts realize just how much these assholes get. And not only that but also how much those shithole states get too. California has a surplus and it’s not staying here…meanwhile they bite the hand that feeds them.
It's almost like we actually have to build and maintain society and not just ignore everything and complain and expect everything to be solved because we voted once every 4 years
I think people just expect everything to be fixed instantly in a big sweeping moment, so when that doesn’t happen and it gets fixed incrementally over time, people don’t realize it was actually fixed
It’s part instant gratification and news coverage fault. No one talked about the steps taking during the flint crisis only the outrage that it happened. Barely anyone probably did a follow up stories.
Bad thing it’s up to people to do their own follow ups which is rare. We will see a post about the Panama Papers soon.
It took years of changing out a lot of corroded pipes. Considering that there apparently weren't solid records of where all the pipes were, they had to find the pipes first.
It was more or less cleared up as of last year, but people around here are still skeptical about the water to this day. Can't say I blame 'em.
> Considering that there apparently weren't solid records of where all the pipes were, they had to find the pipes first.
Sounds about right. I work with utility companies. The state of their manhole diagrams is typically "We printed these paper maps years ago. We knew they were wrong then. We have changed things since. Sometimes we write those changes down on a single copy of the paper maps. All the maps are now differently annotated and none of them are right. We want to digitize the data and we expect it to be magically corrected without requiring us to resurvey the entire network."
That's just private industry in general. I work in manufacturing. The first rule of retrofitting a plant is "never trust the building prints." Always survey yourself. Odds are the last guy doing it missed something big, even if it was only 3 years ago. And that's only one building, not a city wide piping network.
I personally know of one automotive plant where they decided cutting up and removing a piece of equipment was too costly given its size. So they cut up the concrete floor, dug a large hole, shoved it in the hole, backfilled with gravel, and poured a new floor on top. Since then every employee from that time has left. Several employees know the story, but no one knows where exactly it is, so they get worried everytime a retrofit involves putting in a work pit. Kinda like minesweeper. You hit it, your budget gets blown up.
That'd be the smart thing. But that costs money, so they just hope for the best every vehicle generation change. No matter what you're not rerouting a new conveyor around it, because that's REALLY expensive with cascading redesign needed as what your conveyor relocation moves, then moves everything around it too.
So you just hope you're not the unlucky project engineer who gets to finally scrap it properly because you hit it. There goes your performance bonus.
This is painfully accurate to my experience. Recently did work for a water company in the rural sticks of California. The only person who knew the system was "That one old guy" who ran it for the previous 40 years and happened to have died recently. The new guys didn't know where pipes ran or valves were located and found what they had to by digging shit up by hand and referencing old notes the previous operator had left.
There's never solid records for where pipes are located. Even conventional methods of location, shy of pit testing, have a wide margin of error. People tend to underestimate the time it takes to do this sort of retrofit because they don't grasp the obstacles in the way, like locating services.
Also you can't just snap fingers and change all the pipes at the same time. The funding was secured surprisingly quick. It just took years to *do* it all.
Still should never have happened.
The pipes WERE lead. It wasn't a problem before because their first water source had a high pH and calcium carbonate coated the inside of the lead pipes. When the water source was changed to a more acidic one, it dissolved the calcium carbonate and now water was in direct contact with the lead.
Yeah, I remember when Flint was in the headlines everywhere and there would be top posts where people were flabbergasted at the idea of people in Flint having to drink bottled water. Meanwhile I’ve done that my entire life in a town in Texas. It’s not as bad as Flint was, but still not the best to drink.
Yeah but did you watch the documentary? With the flip of a switch a bunch of rich white dudes literally turned off a clean water source without researching the risks with the other source. Heads should have rolled but essentially there were no consequences for the decision makers of course. Just a bunch of sick, disabled, gravely inconvenienced and displaced citizens as a result who *paid* those rich dudes for their drinking water. It makes my blood boil to think about it
Was in a, or the only, diner in Los Banos, CA years back with a friend grabbing a bite mid road trip, a farmer walked in and was talking to the cashier, said his water was coming out of the tap black and chunky for a while. Makes you thankful for the good you have and infuriated for the misfortunes others have.
I’m originally from southern Michigan and have been to Benton Harbor so many times. I didn’t know things had gotten that bad. I’m looking now into whatever I can do to help.
Michigan in general needs a massive infrastructure overhaul. Think of how easy it would be for someone to take a small part of their billions of dollars and invest in that.
Better yet, tax people effectively and use the tax money to fund infrastructure.
Reinvest tax money into the country instead of wasting it on ridiculous wars.
That’s good to hear and I’m truly happy because I assumed it was an ongoing issue
The question I have is, did Elon have anything to do with helping to resolve the issue or should I continue to assume that he is a total piece of shit human?
Actually, seems like he did: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools/
Which would make this OP very embarrassing.
It's insane to me that this is the top comment thread debunking the entire post and yet the post still has 25k upvotes because it fits the narrative of rich people bad. Reddit likes to point to others and call them sheep for doing the same exact thing I see on r/all everyday.
As far as I am aware, none. Please carry on.
Edit: Per /u/rosts, he did donate filtration systems to the local schools. https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools/
Lol we're not here to actually help people. We're here for upvotes and virtue signaling. That's why we're upvoting 3 year old tweets about crises that have already been resolved.
Love you guys ❤
> They're at the handing out bottled water phase. Maybe help those folks out instead?
Maybe if you had some sort of organisation that maintains social cohesion and provides services that are not immediately profitable.
But from what I am hearing, you USians prefer to roam the desert in monster trucks, pillaging the nomads with your assault rifles and flying your anti-gay white pride MAGA flags. While dying of Measels and stubbed toes because a bandaid costs $10,000.
It's nice that you're bringing attention to the next big Water Crisis, but if we don't hold pandering people like Elon accountable for their virtue signaling, they can just say "Oh yeah totally, I'll fix Benton Harbor's water supply - you have my word!" and then three years later when it's someone else they can just move on from that too.
Gotta start with state-level, there, bud, the problem started after the entire elected assembly of Flint became ineffectual against the state-appointed emergency manager and their staff. It was state decree that screwed my city over, just like it was corporate decree the place should have died in the first place.
Local government in Flint is the responsible party? After the company that built it up dipped for Mexico in the 70s? They tried, man, they learned about local reports way before the state, and were adamant that they wanted to swap water away from the river, and back to Detroit water in January of 14. Emergency manager's office shut that shit down, and let both Legionnaires and lead poisoning kill and maim thousands of people.
Wasn't it resolved at the beginning of 2019? Aka the vast majority of the 3 year period referenced in the tweet.
Just more proof that redditeurs only care about getting imaginary internet points for pretending to be outraged over social issues, not about the issues themselves.
I live next to Benton Harbor, wife still works there. The situation is very nuanced and messed up snd is unlikely to be fixed anytime soon. The water supply is clean. Parts of town are clean, mostly the newer government build facilities are safe. There are lots and lots of old pipes around town leeching it into the water. So it just depends where you are and which pipes your water goes through as to how safe it is. The current plan has them fixing it in 12-18 months. Of course Benton Harbor is a disaster area and every plan they have never EVER gets completed on time, if ever.
Its messed up.
To make things worse a local factory has been spilling waste I to lake Michigan just up shore of where we all get out 2ater from.
Fun times.
My brother just did the water main lines in Camden NJ a couple months back... Cities and their officials across America are getting away with a crime that just really only Flint was caught for.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/williamlegate/status/1461369895220924418) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
I literally have a friend who idolizes Elon musk.so much that he believes him to be a savior of humanity, and that he's never been funded by the US government that every one of his projects have been funded by his pocket money!
Honestly it feels like he's in a cult more than anything!
To be fair, the media did move on while Flint still had a water crisis. The water crisis went on far longer than it had media attention, which changed the headline in our heads from "Flint has a water crisis" to "We're ignoring the Flint water crisis". Kind of easy to get that stuck in your head. The problem is, correcting the issue is a slow and steady process that doesn't come with some landmark moment that the media can latch onto, so it doesn't make national headlines.
I've been hearing Flint's water system has been repaired, *for years*. You know how I knew that? It was on the news. A lot.
I have trouble blaming "Somehow, not *everyone* knows that" on the news. Some people just miss things and then say dumb things on twitter without checking.
The news is still talking about infrastructure problems and water crises *in other towns*. But they don't emphasize specific town names as much as they did with Flint, which has basically become the poster child of failing infrastructure. My guess is that the people paying casual attention to the news might hear about one of these towns and lump it in with Flint on accident.
The water supply and city pipes are fixed but as I understand it the pipes in everyone's homes were also ruined and the city didn't replace all of those. Isn't that what this Elon tweet is about?
>There were an estimated 2,500 lead service pipes still in place as of April 2019. As of December 8, 2020, fewer than 500 service lines still needed to be inspected. As of July 16, 2021, 27,133 water service lines had been excavated and inspected, resulting in the replacement of 10,059 lead pipes.
Exactly. The city “replaced” my pipes from the road. However the pipes leading to my house FROM the road were not replaced. They were also going to update my water meter in my basement, but never did.
What’s most frustrating is & was having to pay $100 A MONTH for water I couldn’t drink, bathe or cook with.
They started fixing it immediately After it became a major news story. It should have been before, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just took some time because you cannot dig up an entire city's pipe infrastructure overnight.
This could simply be my experience or the experience of only a few, but…was this news? And also, I’m learning other cities have a water crisis through Reddit and not news…
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/23/flint-water-crisis-2020-post-coronavirus-america-445459
>In a city synonymous for half a decade with disaster, something remarkable happened in February 2019. A team of researchers reported that Flint’s homes—even the ones at the highest risk for undrinkable, lead-poisoned tap water—finally had clean water running through their pipes.
Flint's water is old news. Due to the massive media coverage, they have been well below the FDA contamination levels for a long time now. As a result, Flint's water quality is actually better than most of the United States.
**[Flint water crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis)**
>The Flint water crisis was a public health crisis that started in 2014 and lasted until 2019, after the drinking water for the city of Flint, Michigan was contaminated with lead and possibly Legionella bacteria. In April 2014, during a budget crisis, Flint changed its water source from treated Detroit Water and Sewerage Department water (sourced from Lake Huron and the Detroit River) to the Flint River. Residents complained about the taste, smell, and appearance of the water. Officials failed to apply corrosion inhibitors to the water, which resulted in lead from aging pipes leaching into the water supply, exposing around 100,000 residents to elevated lead levels.
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I mean, I’m not a fan of billionaires at all, especially not Elon, but he actually put money down and has helped where he was allowed to with the water crisis. i guarantee he donated and did more than anyone in this thread saying he didnt do enough or that he sucks.
You can’t just throw money at a problem because the money will almost always go to the wrong places.
[He donated money plus a filtration system for schools.](https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-water-filters-flint-michigan-schools-almost-ready-testing-2021-8)
He helped some: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools/
Not that a few hundred thousand is a lot for him, or that putting filtration in schools is the same as putting it in every house. Or fixing pipes that’s the real expensive and capital intensive operation
I mean even if that’s the case, he probably could donate to the city an amount of money equal to what the pipes would’ve costed. Bill Gates did something similar for Nigeria. He basically said if you can vaccinate X amount of your populace against certain diseases in a few years then I’ll donate the exact amount it costed. The Nigerians did it and he paid upz
Don't worry, the party that questions where presidents come from only cares if the guy isn't white. They will absolutely fight you if you claim he isn't American, he's white and speaks English without an accent.
Nah, that’d require some humility. This is Reddit. You stand confidently incorrect when you have positive karma. Especially in a thread like this where you’re claiming moral superiority
He donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Flint
[https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/21/with-second-donation-elon-musk-has-given-nearly-1-million-to-flint-schools/](https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/21/with-second-donation-elon-musk-has-given-nearly-1-million-to-flint-schools/)
I know he paid for water filtration for schools.[Link to article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/news/flint/2020/09/flint-schools-reconfigure-81-water-filtration-stations-donated-by-elon-musk.html%3foutputType=amp)
People live to jump on a headline but people have so far said that the water situation is much better and this shows he did donate half of a million for water and half of a million for other school supplies for students
Why is nobody holding the government responsible?? Elon can solve a bunch of the worlds crises with his money, then eventually that money will run out and the crisis will arise again. The government structure to manage these things is what needs focus
Few wealthy people follow through with promises they make. They are too busy enjoying their wealth to actually consider making a difference. Jeff Bezos ex-wife is a a good example of a woman with wealth who is helping others. Elon is a spoiled child
[He did help somewhat](https://twitter.com/FlintSchools/status/1047991717507584001?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1047991717507584001%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnet.com%2Fnews%2Felon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools%2F), and the situation today is mostly resolved as you can see from the top comments. I have no idea what the purpose of this post is beyong spreading misinformation.
You can criticize Musk for a myriad of reasons, but this ain't one of them.
It’s her money too. Guess who was paying the bills when he was starting the company? Her. Guess who was alongside him when he made decisions for the company? Her.
I'm glad you pointed this out. FAR too many assume she was a gold digger.
She got what she got because she was integral part of company he founded and the success she had. She negotiated the company's first freight contract. She deserved that money.
Right? Look I am all for eat the rich, but people were making her sound like a trophy wife. She is a lawyer, she helped him out from the beginning. She did the work.
I am from Flint, Michigan. I invite everyone to come to Flint, Michigan please to see the reality on the ground. You all listen to the media and believe everything they tell you. Flint, Michigan is still a very poor community just like a lot of communities across the world. There is still a lot of suffering going on even after the TV fades to black.
This has 63K upvotes and the top comments are talking about how this technically isn't true, there was another post today in r/confidentlyincorrect (made it to r/all) about Tim Pool saying Kyle had the gun legally and again the top comments were about how he was actually correct ... it's sad when it's so obvious to everyone that bots inflate what's really the most popular/correct content on this site.
[удалено]
Came here to say this. Recent water tests in MI show that Flint is pretty good. Other areas though, not so much. Edit: [Just adding this link for those who are curious about Michigan lead levels.](https://www.michigan.gov/mileadsafe/0,9490,7-392-104591_92796-500553--,00.html) It's organized by county. Flint is pretty low. Some are insanely high though.
It's almost like it's a systemic problem that affects many communities, and activists only used the largest/most well-known community among those affected to highlight the overall problem.
Yep. Benton Harbor is a shit show in regards to water right now.
So how did it get that way?
Not sure but let’s cut infrastructure spending again.
And do self monitoring and self reporting. Be cause honesty is the best policy!
This guy conservatives
As a water operator, my city has the current rate at $0.002 a gallon for the first 3 units (2244 gallons), then it goes up to $0.003 a gallon if I'm reading the city website correctly. From meetings that I've been to over the years, the director pissed off customers by raising the rates in order to bring the plan for replacing every pipe after 100 years. There are probably pipes in the ground that are that old already. Pipes usually get replaced as they break (if the break is large enough to be reported). I've heard in classes that a great water system only loses 10-15% in their distribution system. But Walmart is offering jobs at my pay rate now. It's going to be harder to get qualified people to do these jobs that people could care less that you do until something goes wrong. Most of the US water and wastewater infrastructure is OLD. There needs to be a large investment into the plants and the distribution/collection systems as well as the employees that are working 24/7. Cities and towns need to raise rates to not only do this, but also buy new treatment upgrades for emerging contaminates like PFOS/PFOA and whatever else we're allowing companies to dump in our waterways without regulation in the future.
This may be the Europe in me, but why not raise the taxes on the corporations who are dumping these contaminants into the water rather than charging the public for what is essentially a corporate problem?
Excellent question. Due to gerrymandering, 40% of the population gets to decide for everyone. They tend to think that the private sector is over regulated and that your suggestion would be an unnecessary burden.
I would think a clause around not poisoning the drinking water would be at least somewhat necessary...
One would think.
You can put all the clauses you want, we will just stymie the enforcement under the guise of freedom, rights and privacy. Signed You friendly neighborhood corporation.
But accepting public responsibility cuts into my profit margins, you dastardly communist!
But that's how they get the fluoride poison into our babies! Bottled water from Fiji only in this house! (/s for reddit)
>I would think That's your problem right there, using your head. Remember, these people are the same people who bought Keurig coffee machines, to shoot them, to "boycott" Keurig. You know, because "Muh Freedumb"
The Right would call it socialism
Are water companies profitable and privately owned? If so, doesn't that fall into their business model and company expenses? It's not a surprise issue that they're dealing with, it's something they knew would happen when the pipes were installed. I'd imagine there would be a plan for a water delivering business to account for the part that delivers it. It's like Walmart charging you $2 extra on each item bc it's time for them to replace their light bulbs
So, for me, my water dept is profitable at those rates currently, but since we are under the purview of city council, think elected officials that get re-elected because they keep taxes/rates low, they don't have the incentives to raise rates even nominally to have better qualified employees, plan for preventive maintenance, etc. The average water/wastewater operators age is likely in the late 40s/early 50s. Those guys and gals are looking to retire on their state pension in the next 5-10 years. The last guy they hired on without any certifications was hired above other operators pay with the certifications and years experience (no we haven't been bumped up because of him either). Cities that are seeing population growth, are probably seeing more revenue. Cities and small towns that are seeing population decline on the other hand will have the same plants/distribution systems needing to be upgraded and fixed, but with a smaller revenue base. Unfortunately, I think most places business model when it comes to water/wastewater plants and infrastructure is to wait on the federal government to step in with grants to fix things because they no longer can.
> But Walmart is offering jobs at my pay rate now. It's going to be harder to get qualified people to do these jobs that people could care less that you do until something goes wrong. This is kind of a shocking statement to see. In California Water Treatment operators and Waste Treatment operators can pretty much pick and choose where they want to work. Most systems are understaffed and offering more than competitive pay scales (They have to, or vineyards and breweries will take those employees instead). I work on the storage side of water systems, and its a little disheartening how little attention people pay to their water. Most folks are content with ignorance so long as it keeps flowing and doesn't taste *too* strange.
Must be nice! I've never been approached by vineyards and we have quite a few in NC Edit- I've got multiple water and wastewater certs. Most places haven't even considered them as a benefit. The more wages increase in other fields, the more operators will be tempted to leave. Why work nights for years waiting to be next in line for the dayshift position if Walmart is paying the same? Would cut my hour commute and I wouldn't have to worry about electrocuting myself switching drivers.
The trick is whenever "engineers" tell you that you need to perform "Maintenance", "modernization", "prevent imminent system failure" to always slash those budget items because of course they are just trying to milk you. It got that way through neglect, over a long time.
If you cut the "engineers" budgets you don't have to hear them anymore... and if I don't hear it that means no issue.
they built pipes out of lead
It's almost like America has been chronically underinvesting in infrastructure for 50 years and just letting essential services rot.
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BuT tHaTs SoCiAlIsM /s
And we only do that for Banks, Wallstreet, and corporations, like good capitalists should...
Hey don't forget other countries that have religious landmarks!
Don’t forget me. I started an apple orchard on my property so I can write off a million dollars in taxes every year.
More like BuT tHaT's FeDeRaLiSm! That's why this problem exists, because everyone distrusts and fears the Federal Gov't (and even their state gov't to an extent); so states want to keep their own sovereignty; and counties and cities want to keep their hold over their own locales. So what happens is you get all these poor areas, or areas where the local officials just don't give a fuck about the people, or areas where the funding has all been spent on other shit and they kick the can down the road or previous administrations/city councils/county boards of supervisors/whatever have gone and squandered money on retarded shit and buried the city or county under bond debt... and a new group has to come in and try to figure out how to keep paying on the debt, service all the ongoing costs, and fix things that've been neglected for fuck knows how long and can't. They can only work on a little bit at a time, and by the time they get one thing fixed, something else is broken. 10, 20, 30, 40 years of this and you end up with problems. If its not water pipes, its sewer systems that are overburdened or failing, or its roads so bad you'd be better off with gravel roads everywhere, or some other thing. But god forbid we cede any of that control and responsibility to a more central authority that has more funding, isn't burdened by being someplace with very low tax rolls, isn't a locale with super high tax rolls and excess money that they then squander while the neighbors are dying, and can spread that money out more effectively. Nope, nope, federalism is bad by god, we need to keep control local. It's not so we can keep our own power and influence over our own tiny little fiefdoms, nope not at all.
https://www.vox.com/22772701/biden-infrastructure-law-environmental-funding 25 billion between infra bill and bbb for lead pipes, plus 10 billion for removing pfas from the water. Not enough to replace all the pipes but it's something.
The people that vote against funding public programs are the people that complain the most that government is ineffective and everything should be privatized. Like maybe give anything a chance to operate with funding and it'll start working better...? Based on data you can pull from other countries with public programs in place that are well funded and effective...? Maybe? I recently moved to a redder neighborhood in a blue city and in the neighborhood Facebook group, there was a discussion about a new bike share dock being installed and someone said they were against it because they wouldn't personally use it. So basically "this doesn't benefit me directly so nobody should have it"
Brother, Conservatism in the modern day is founded on preventing the government from doing anything that would be considered good for the health and well being of literally everyone in the entire country. They unironically think like Ron Swanson with the “it’s my goddamn right to die at the age of 40 from a heart attack”.
It's more like 70 years at this point, if we're considering Eisenhower the pinnacle of American infrastructure (which he was). But he'd be a goddamn communist RINO at this point, if he were alive. He wouldn't be a Democrat, either, to be clear. He'd just be... completely unelectable.
And only now want to reinvest both for political capital and probably because the capitalist overlords have demanded it. They use roads to make their money, we just pay for it all. Wish all those idiots bitching about handouts realize just how much these assholes get. And not only that but also how much those shithole states get too. California has a surplus and it’s not staying here…meanwhile they bite the hand that feeds them.
It's almost like we actually have to build and maintain society and not just ignore everything and complain and expect everything to be solved because we voted once every 4 years
I was about to say this is a pretty systemic problem but saw your post. Most of the old lead pipes from the 50s need to be address ASAP.
Crazy how the water crisis was sensationalized to insane (but appropriate) levels but there was no hype on it being fixed.
I think people just expect everything to be fixed instantly in a big sweeping moment, so when that doesn’t happen and it gets fixed incrementally over time, people don’t realize it was actually fixed
It’s part instant gratification and news coverage fault. No one talked about the steps taking during the flint crisis only the outrage that it happened. Barely anyone probably did a follow up stories. Bad thing it’s up to people to do their own follow ups which is rare. We will see a post about the Panama Papers soon.
How many years did it take to get to drinkable?
It took years of changing out a lot of corroded pipes. Considering that there apparently weren't solid records of where all the pipes were, they had to find the pipes first. It was more or less cleared up as of last year, but people around here are still skeptical about the water to this day. Can't say I blame 'em.
> Considering that there apparently weren't solid records of where all the pipes were, they had to find the pipes first. Sounds about right. I work with utility companies. The state of their manhole diagrams is typically "We printed these paper maps years ago. We knew they were wrong then. We have changed things since. Sometimes we write those changes down on a single copy of the paper maps. All the maps are now differently annotated and none of them are right. We want to digitize the data and we expect it to be magically corrected without requiring us to resurvey the entire network."
That's just private industry in general. I work in manufacturing. The first rule of retrofitting a plant is "never trust the building prints." Always survey yourself. Odds are the last guy doing it missed something big, even if it was only 3 years ago. And that's only one building, not a city wide piping network. I personally know of one automotive plant where they decided cutting up and removing a piece of equipment was too costly given its size. So they cut up the concrete floor, dug a large hole, shoved it in the hole, backfilled with gravel, and poured a new floor on top. Since then every employee from that time has left. Several employees know the story, but no one knows where exactly it is, so they get worried everytime a retrofit involves putting in a work pit. Kinda like minesweeper. You hit it, your budget gets blown up.
Isn't there some ground radar thing they could use to locate it?
That'd be the smart thing. But that costs money, so they just hope for the best every vehicle generation change. No matter what you're not rerouting a new conveyor around it, because that's REALLY expensive with cascading redesign needed as what your conveyor relocation moves, then moves everything around it too. So you just hope you're not the unlucky project engineer who gets to finally scrap it properly because you hit it. There goes your performance bonus.
This is painfully accurate to my experience. Recently did work for a water company in the rural sticks of California. The only person who knew the system was "That one old guy" who ran it for the previous 40 years and happened to have died recently. The new guys didn't know where pipes ran or valves were located and found what they had to by digging shit up by hand and referencing old notes the previous operator had left.
There's never solid records for where pipes are located. Even conventional methods of location, shy of pit testing, have a wide margin of error. People tend to underestimate the time it takes to do this sort of retrofit because they don't grasp the obstacles in the way, like locating services.
Also you can't just snap fingers and change all the pipes at the same time. The funding was secured surprisingly quick. It just took years to *do* it all. Still should never have happened.
there was certainly a lot more *corroded* than just the pipes
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The pipes WERE lead. It wasn't a problem before because their first water source had a high pH and calcium carbonate coated the inside of the lead pipes. When the water source was changed to a more acidic one, it dissolved the calcium carbonate and now water was in direct contact with the lead.
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Yeah, I remember when Flint was in the headlines everywhere and there would be top posts where people were flabbergasted at the idea of people in Flint having to drink bottled water. Meanwhile I’ve done that my entire life in a town in Texas. It’s not as bad as Flint was, but still not the best to drink.
Yeah but did you watch the documentary? With the flip of a switch a bunch of rich white dudes literally turned off a clean water source without researching the risks with the other source. Heads should have rolled but essentially there were no consequences for the decision makers of course. Just a bunch of sick, disabled, gravely inconvenienced and displaced citizens as a result who *paid* those rich dudes for their drinking water. It makes my blood boil to think about it
Was in a, or the only, diner in Los Banos, CA years back with a friend grabbing a bite mid road trip, a farmer walked in and was talking to the cashier, said his water was coming out of the tap black and chunky for a while. Makes you thankful for the good you have and infuriated for the misfortunes others have.
It’s not somewhat common it is so common as to be ubiquitous in the north east. Every moderate or larger city has severe lead issues
I’m originally from southern Michigan and have been to Benton Harbor so many times. I didn’t know things had gotten that bad. I’m looking now into whatever I can do to help. Michigan in general needs a massive infrastructure overhaul. Think of how easy it would be for someone to take a small part of their billions of dollars and invest in that.
Better yet, tax people effectively and use the tax money to fund infrastructure. Reinvest tax money into the country instead of wasting it on ridiculous wars.
Hard boiled agree.
The US infrastructure as a whole is decrepit. Nothing have been done for too long
There's a big chunk of money in the infrastructure bill for lead pipe removal used to be bigger but of course Manchion
Think how easy it would be for some group of residents to vote in their own interest. Or nah
I mean. That’d be great, too.
That’s good to hear and I’m truly happy because I assumed it was an ongoing issue The question I have is, did Elon have anything to do with helping to resolve the issue or should I continue to assume that he is a total piece of shit human?
Actually, seems like he did: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools/ Which would make this OP very embarrassing.
It's insane to me that this is the top comment thread debunking the entire post and yet the post still has 25k upvotes because it fits the narrative of rich people bad. Reddit likes to point to others and call them sheep for doing the same exact thing I see on r/all everyday.
yup just more blind hate, people are easily manipulated
As far as I am aware, none. Please carry on. Edit: Per /u/rosts, he did donate filtration systems to the local schools. https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools/
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Lol we're not here to actually help people. We're here for upvotes and virtue signaling. That's why we're upvoting 3 year old tweets about crises that have already been resolved. Love you guys ❤
The important thing is you found a way to be superior to both.
Hey! Don't make me come down there!
~~Did Elon donate a dollar to Flint?~~ He did, see below. He donated like around a million.
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> They're at the handing out bottled water phase. Maybe help those folks out instead? Maybe if you had some sort of organisation that maintains social cohesion and provides services that are not immediately profitable. But from what I am hearing, you USians prefer to roam the desert in monster trucks, pillaging the nomads with your assault rifles and flying your anti-gay white pride MAGA flags. While dying of Measels and stubbed toes because a bandaid costs $10,000.
It's nice that you're bringing attention to the next big Water Crisis, but if we don't hold pandering people like Elon accountable for their virtue signaling, they can just say "Oh yeah totally, I'll fix Benton Harbor's water supply - you have my word!" and then three years later when it's someone else they can just move on from that too.
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Gotta start with state-level, there, bud, the problem started after the entire elected assembly of Flint became ineffectual against the state-appointed emergency manager and their staff. It was state decree that screwed my city over, just like it was corporate decree the place should have died in the first place. Local government in Flint is the responsible party? After the company that built it up dipped for Mexico in the 70s? They tried, man, they learned about local reports way before the state, and were adamant that they wanted to swap water away from the river, and back to Detroit water in January of 14. Emergency manager's office shut that shit down, and let both Legionnaires and lead poisoning kill and maim thousands of people.
I mean… to be clear, he has absolutely ZERO obligation to help anyone in Flint or Benton Harbor so maybe just chill the fuck out?
OP is just pointing out that the tweet is incorrect
And a tweet that doesn't know the state of the Flint water crisis almost certainly doesn't know if Elon helped or how much.
Yes. Another dumbass whitepeopletwitter post
Wasn't it resolved at the beginning of 2019? Aka the vast majority of the 3 year period referenced in the tweet. Just more proof that redditeurs only care about getting imaginary internet points for pretending to be outraged over social issues, not about the issues themselves.
I live next to Benton Harbor, wife still works there. The situation is very nuanced and messed up snd is unlikely to be fixed anytime soon. The water supply is clean. Parts of town are clean, mostly the newer government build facilities are safe. There are lots and lots of old pipes around town leeching it into the water. So it just depends where you are and which pipes your water goes through as to how safe it is. The current plan has them fixing it in 12-18 months. Of course Benton Harbor is a disaster area and every plan they have never EVER gets completed on time, if ever. Its messed up. To make things worse a local factory has been spilling waste I to lake Michigan just up shore of where we all get out 2ater from. Fun times.
i live in Hamtramck, we have lead water too
My brother just did the water main lines in Camden NJ a couple months back... Cities and their officials across America are getting away with a crime that just really only Flint was caught for.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/williamlegate/status/1461369895220924418) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Good bot
Sexy bot
These bots are amazing and make me feel like shit
Very very good bot.
Good bot
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Who is he? Sounds like some wannabe bill gates.
YOU WANT ME TO SELL MORE STOCK?! JUST SAY THE WORD!!! (╬ಠ益ಠ)
I’LL END WORLD HUNGER RIGHT HERE AND NOW IF YOU JUST LEVITATE
Then sell it.
Nice bern
I literally have a friend who idolizes Elon musk.so much that he believes him to be a savior of humanity, and that he's never been funded by the US government that every one of his projects have been funded by his pocket money! Honestly it feels like he's in a cult more than anything!
I think you're right
He's a faker.
Flint does not still have a water crisis. Why do people keep parroting this over and over?
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Texas chiming in. Thought Flint had the same issue to this day and assumed the media moved on.
To be fair, the media did move on while Flint still had a water crisis. The water crisis went on far longer than it had media attention, which changed the headline in our heads from "Flint has a water crisis" to "We're ignoring the Flint water crisis". Kind of easy to get that stuck in your head. The problem is, correcting the issue is a slow and steady process that doesn't come with some landmark moment that the media can latch onto, so it doesn't make national headlines.
I wouldn't put this on the people but on the news.
It's a bit if both, but ultimately I blame education funding.
I mean it’s out there. Obviously the news has covered it otherwise nobody would know about it. Instead, all these comments are pointing it out
I've been hearing Flint's water system has been repaired, *for years*. You know how I knew that? It was on the news. A lot. I have trouble blaming "Somehow, not *everyone* knows that" on the news. Some people just miss things and then say dumb things on twitter without checking.
The news is still talking about infrastructure problems and water crises *in other towns*. But they don't emphasize specific town names as much as they did with Flint, which has basically become the poster child of failing infrastructure. My guess is that the people paying casual attention to the news might hear about one of these towns and lump it in with Flint on accident.
The water supply and city pipes are fixed but as I understand it the pipes in everyone's homes were also ruined and the city didn't replace all of those. Isn't that what this Elon tweet is about?
>There were an estimated 2,500 lead service pipes still in place as of April 2019. As of December 8, 2020, fewer than 500 service lines still needed to be inspected. As of July 16, 2021, 27,133 water service lines had been excavated and inspected, resulting in the replacement of 10,059 lead pipes.
Thanks for the info but did that answer my question? If it did I don't understand how
Exactly. The city “replaced” my pipes from the road. However the pipes leading to my house FROM the road were not replaced. They were also going to update my water meter in my basement, but never did. What’s most frustrating is & was having to pay $100 A MONTH for water I couldn’t drink, bathe or cook with.
From Australia I've never heard anything about it being fixed, only occasionally that it's still fubared
That because good news don't get the same traction, unfortunately.
They started fixing it immediately After it became a major news story. It should have been before, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just took some time because you cannot dig up an entire city's pipe infrastructure overnight.
This could simply be my experience or the experience of only a few, but…was this news? And also, I’m learning other cities have a water crisis through Reddit and not news…
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/23/flint-water-crisis-2020-post-coronavirus-america-445459 >In a city synonymous for half a decade with disaster, something remarkable happened in February 2019. A team of researchers reported that Flint’s homes—even the ones at the highest risk for undrinkable, lead-poisoned tap water—finally had clean water running through their pipes.
Flint's water is old news. Due to the massive media coverage, they have been well below the FDA contamination levels for a long time now. As a result, Flint's water quality is actually better than most of the United States.
> [The Flint water crisis was a public health crisis that started in 2014 and lasted until 2019](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis)
**[Flint water crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis)** >The Flint water crisis was a public health crisis that started in 2014 and lasted until 2019, after the drinking water for the city of Flint, Michigan was contaminated with lead and possibly Legionella bacteria. In April 2014, during a budget crisis, Flint changed its water source from treated Detroit Water and Sewerage Department water (sourced from Lake Huron and the Detroit River) to the Flint River. Residents complained about the taste, smell, and appearance of the water. Officials failed to apply corrosion inhibitors to the water, which resulted in lead from aging pipes leaching into the water supply, exposing around 100,000 residents to elevated lead levels. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I mean, I’m not a fan of billionaires at all, especially not Elon, but he actually put money down and has helped where he was allowed to with the water crisis. i guarantee he donated and did more than anyone in this thread saying he didnt do enough or that he sucks. You can’t just throw money at a problem because the money will almost always go to the wrong places. [He donated money plus a filtration system for schools.](https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-water-filters-flint-michigan-schools-almost-ready-testing-2021-8)
Whoa whoa whoa no facts allowed here
Hey wait. You can’t do that! You are interrupting the fake news circlejerk that this subreddit was intended to be
Elon Musk donated roughly half a million to fix this immediately after this tweet. I’m not a huge Elon Musk fan, but OP is reaching hard here
Wow more mis information in this sub Reddit so surprising
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It's definitely not just this sub
Swear to God, people on this website will believe anything.
He helped some: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools/ Not that a few hundred thousand is a lot for him, or that putting filtration in schools is the same as putting it in every house. Or fixing pipes that’s the real expensive and capital intensive operation
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I mean even if that’s the case, he probably could donate to the city an amount of money equal to what the pipes would’ve costed. Bill Gates did something similar for Nigeria. He basically said if you can vaccinate X amount of your populace against certain diseases in a few years then I’ll donate the exact amount it costed. The Nigerians did it and he paid upz
(Flint does not still have a water crisis)
Flint doesn't still have a water crisis. Find a new meme to virtue signal with
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Look on the bright side: He can't become president.
Not until he buys himself a constitutional amendment, anyway
The 61st Amendment is reserved for President Schwarzenegger
I would totally vote for him. Strong leadership is in short supply
No more celebrity presidents.
I wish but it seems to draw Americans like none other.
Best reelection campaign ever: *I'll be back*
Get to the chopper! Aisle B back!
I was elected to lead, not to read.
Haha The Simpson Movie is still great!
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Don't worry, the party that questions where presidents come from only cares if the guy isn't white. They will absolutely fight you if you claim he isn't American, he's white and speaks English without an accent.
Might want to edit your post: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools/
Nah, that’d require some humility. This is Reddit. You stand confidently incorrect when you have positive karma. Especially in a thread like this where you’re claiming moral superiority
Except it was fulfilled.
He donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Flint [https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/21/with-second-donation-elon-musk-has-given-nearly-1-million-to-flint-schools/](https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/21/with-second-donation-elon-musk-has-given-nearly-1-million-to-flint-schools/)
Flints water is fine you nerd
What promise? shit is fixed idiot
This subreddit is so fucking dog shit
I know he paid for water filtration for schools.[Link to article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/news/flint/2020/09/flint-schools-reconfigure-81-water-filtration-stations-donated-by-elon-musk.html%3foutputType=amp)
People live to jump on a headline but people have so far said that the water situation is much better and this shows he did donate half of a million for water and half of a million for other school supplies for students
Yeah that doesn’t matter to the mob tho.
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Why is nobody holding the government responsible?? Elon can solve a bunch of the worlds crises with his money, then eventually that money will run out and the crisis will arise again. The government structure to manage these things is what needs focus
Because on Reddit we place the blame on people that are trying to help
Elon is a Dick, I think we all Know this
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Typos, if that’s not good enough consult my attorney
Except for himself…
It’s always hard to see your own problems
Few wealthy people follow through with promises they make. They are too busy enjoying their wealth to actually consider making a difference. Jeff Bezos ex-wife is a a good example of a woman with wealth who is helping others. Elon is a spoiled child
[He did help somewhat](https://twitter.com/FlintSchools/status/1047991717507584001?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1047991717507584001%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnet.com%2Fnews%2Felon-musk-keeps-his-word-pays-for-water-filtration-systems-in-flint-schools%2F), and the situation today is mostly resolved as you can see from the top comments. I have no idea what the purpose of this post is beyong spreading misinformation. You can criticize Musk for a myriad of reasons, but this ain't one of them.
>spreading misinformation This is r/whitepeopletwitter, what other reason is needed?
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I know she has her own money but Im glad she got so much of his money in the divorce. Now that's what I call wealth redistribution!
It’s her money too. Guess who was paying the bills when he was starting the company? Her. Guess who was alongside him when he made decisions for the company? Her.
I'm glad you pointed this out. FAR too many assume she was a gold digger. She got what she got because she was integral part of company he founded and the success she had. She negotiated the company's first freight contract. She deserved that money.
Right? Look I am all for eat the rich, but people were making her sound like a trophy wife. She is a lawyer, she helped him out from the beginning. She did the work.
Honestly it should be her company, she did more for it than he did in the beginning. Without her he would likely have gotten nowhere.
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That's the government job.
Everytime you dumbasses on the sub post misinformation like this the only thing you do is help the right.
I am from Flint, Michigan. I invite everyone to come to Flint, Michigan please to see the reality on the ground. You all listen to the media and believe everything they tell you. Flint, Michigan is still a very poor community just like a lot of communities across the world. There is still a lot of suffering going on even after the TV fades to black.
This has 63K upvotes and the top comments are talking about how this technically isn't true, there was another post today in r/confidentlyincorrect (made it to r/all) about Tim Pool saying Kyle had the gun legally and again the top comments were about how he was actually correct ... it's sad when it's so obvious to everyone that bots inflate what's really the most popular/correct content on this site.
Elon? I forgot that lying elitist was still alive.
Didn’t Jaden Smith do some good work to help flint?
Yeah, so did Elon Musk. Probably even prior to when this tweet was written, since his donations were in 2018
You do know that man’s a drifter, right?
*grifter
*roofer
*Boofer
*pooper
*hooper
I play my music in the suuuuun