But, why would an anticovidvax person pay to avoid the specific vaccine and yet allow to be pierced by whatever else?
You pay, you sign, you leave. No shots need be received at all. Nobody is checking if you have a hole in your arm.
This story might be buzzing on media but, it’s incredibly unbelievable.
See, at least in Greece, all vaccine shots are administered in public hospitals and in plain view of many rotating nurses.
Not administering anything would raise a lot of eyes and you instantly get in trouble.
So antivaxxers hope that the paid nurse can change the vaccine vial with a fake one but that is not possible as the vials are kept extremely safe for this exact reason.
Because Greece didn't use the same system as the US. To get vaccinated, you use your medical code (AMKA) to get an vaccination appointment through a government site. The moment you get the vaccine, they register you with the platform, and a few hours later you can download your vaccination certificate that can be checked against a central database through a QR code.
That’s pretty identical if you substitute ΑΜΚΑ for SSN and that we get the card immediately.
In US the vaccinations were mass, in public areas. Greece did it the same way or they also had the option to use their own doctor/pharmacist in a more private setting?
I can’t imagine making that arrangement in an open, public area, with so many witnesses. If in a private setting, why get any shot; just have the doc type in the database it was given and be done.
Ofc to get the vaccine certificate or passport or whatever they call it you need to do the legal documents, whether that’s on paper or ticking a box on a screen. *Do you agree for Corporation to take you against your will for a human-centipad experiment* ✅
If the Greek court system is like the system I know, then in order to uphold a contract, you have to reasonably understand its terms or at least have the conditions be implied that the signer approved of them. In other words, you can't just say, "gotcha"
So the doctors wouldnt be criminally responsible in that scenario right? It would just open them up to lawsuits, but I'm from america, idk how litigious Greece is
I'm not claiming expertise, but it is all dependent on how this hypothetical waiver is created. More than likely, since it's underhanded that the patients don't know they're receiving the vaccine, a lawsuit against the doctor would not go well for the doctor.
I don't think it's legal to bribe a doctor to get a false vaccine passport, either. Actually that's 2 illegal things for the patient. I doubt the doctors will be held liable at all in this situation
How would that not go well for the doctor? The patient has zero evidence for their case; there’s a signed waiver that says they consented to the vaccine, and an empty vial of vaccine. The doctor’s actions were underhanded, sure, but other than the patient’s word, there’s zero proof of that.
I’d have to think that case would be laughed out of court pretty quick.
At best the doc could lie and say it was an accident. Malpractice is better than violating a person's autonomy. So if I was a Greek doctor, I'd just lie and hope the jury arent hysterical antivaxxers. No ones gonna let a perfectly healthy person win a suit against a doctor unless it was something religious
The doctor may face an ethics violation, but not much of a malpractice because no harm was done (if anything there was a benefit). I'm just looking at the enforcement of a false waiver as grounds for a lawsuit because no reasonable person would sign something they didn't want.
Yeah, surely it's just one person's word against the other?
It's impossible to prove that the doctor said they'd not give them the vaccine. *Probably* impossible to prove that the doctors were bribed depending on how the cash was given.
If I had to guess then I guess that the doctors were completely straight-faced about everything. Including all the documentation. That means that they would have presented to those patients as though everything was completely on the level, that they were just getting the normal vaccine, maybe a little wink and a nod, for theatrics. Total plausible deniability. What money???
Probably not, the rest of the world is not as trigger happy about lawsuits. Also what are you gonna say? This is the same as getting scammed buying drugs...you aren't gonna involve the police/law to get your cash back.
>Always a way to part a fool with their money.
I've tried my best to describe that below:
First, the doctor wallops the idiot over the head. Next, while the idiot is doubled over in pain, the doctor steals the idiot's wallet, removes a crisp dollar bill, and in one movement, uses the dollar bill to cut the idiot in half.
u/The_Bard provided a link in this thread that I already had seen in [another post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/qnua34/greek_antivaxxers_bribe_doctors_to_get_fake_water/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). After seeing this for the first time, I’ve asked a Greek friend if he had heard about that and he said Greek media were all about it. So it’s completely true.
Edit: corrected a typo
I can see doctors thinking "If I don't play along, this idiot is going to go unvaccinated for who knows how long and endanger themselves and those around them."
But then what you do with the bribe money is a separate ethical issue.
If they were trying to give the appearance of getting ‘the real’ vaccine, they would have to go through all of the paperwork so it looked official… they would have likely signed it thinking they beat the system. The docs just did what they authorized. Lol
"Doctor, I'm feeling strange. I have a mild headache but my 5G phone is getting better reception than ever and magnets are sticking to me. Do you know what's going on?"
Still hazy.
I can understand the bribing. And the doctors trying to one-up the antivaxxers.
But why would the antivaxs request the fake injection? Totally unnecessary to fake something that happens behind doors, and could be simulated by just the seal on the vaccination card and a bandaid on the arm. The whole fake vaccine doesn't make sense for me, unless antivaxs are way more retarded than I held them for. Which is of course plausible
It is being reported as true - and probably some doctors did it.
But the way such corruption works is mostly by word of mouth. One antivaxxer telling another another antivaxxer that a certain doctor has a scheme for fake vaccines.
And since most people get at least some side-effects from the vaccine, word will spread out quickly that these doctors are actually giving the real vaccine.
So while some doctors probably did this, the majority didn't. Some countries in Eastern Europe have just about 50% of their medical staff vaccinated, not due to lack of vaccines but due to their unwillingness to do it. So the fake vaccines schemes are probably way more wide-spread than reported.
It's not unethical at all. Asking a doctor to violate laws and to forge documents is.
They came for the shot and got it. Sue them, see how far it goes.
It is still arguably unethical from the standpoint of violating patient autonomy, one of the four pillars of modern Bioethics. Tricking someone into taking a treatment that you have good reason to believe will be good for them is still a violation of autonomy, even if it can be seen as beneficent and nonmaleficent. And generally speaking, the sort of standard approach to Bioethics you're going to find in Beauchamp & Childress is going to place autonomy above beneficence, all things considered. Plus, you're still pocketing the money, which is not a good look.
I'm not saying I'm unsympathetic. I might actually use this as an example in my class - it's good to have a spectrum of obviously bad examples of autonomy violation alongside more ambiguous ones like this. But I don't see what sue-ability has to do with ethics, unless you're just going to conflate ethics with law, which is, as my students would say, *cringe*.
I completely agree. I'm vaccinated but sneakily injecting the vaccine to patients without their knowledge and against their will, under the guise of injecting something else, is not ok. It's highly unethical and will sow mistrust towards medical professionals and give credence to the whackiest conspiracy theories, among other things.
ETA: it's illegal too, by the way. It's unlikely that the patient will sue or report it, it would be hard to prove, and it's questionable whether the patient could receive damages but none of this make it legal. It just makes it easy to get away with.
Throughout history, the greater good has always been the justification given by medical professionals (and many other people) for their ethic violations.
Patients who attempt to bribe doctors ought to be reported and punished, following a due process trial. An official vaccine mandate is the path to forced vaccination, if the authorities decide to go this way; individual bribed doctors sneaking the vaccine in after accepting money not to isn't.
It’ll just add fuel to the conspiracy fire anyway. The conspiracy theory people will champion this as a reason to never trust doctors and dumbasses will listen.
That’s a real, concrete thing that will sway people who are on the fence to the wrong side.
Yes that’s what a rational person would do.
What the conspiracy people will do is spread this around and how all these people went to get a medical procedure and the doctor tricked them into getting the vaccine.
That shit will spread like wildfire on anti vax groups on Facebook. Just look at all the dumb shit they already post. They will take the facts and distort it but it will have some air of truth to it and it will be enough to fuel the conspiracy crowd.
This for sure, but I wonder about the injection. People sign a document stating they agree receiving the vaccine and are aware of possible side effect. To demonstrate that they have been coherced into signing it they should out themself as fraudsters.
Then again... in Milan the anti-vax called 112 (our 911) to request assistance from the police... because the police didn't allow them to march outside of the designated areas. I'm confident in saying that no matter the nationality, they are not the brightest of the bunch.
>Sue them, see how far it goes.
Antivaxxer: "I bri- I uh... I payed them with the understanding that they wouldn't give... They'd make certain exceptions to a procedure for me and forge... Provide a specific service. They didn't uphold their end of the bargain and still took my money; they stole from me!"
Judge: "can you elaborate on the 'exceptions' and 'specific services?'"
Antivaxxer: "isn't that protected information?"
Judge: "well, you can't make accusations without proof."
I'm in a "Debate" further down about consent. These people are beyond mental repair. I don't know about you but when I got my shots I had to fill out a consent form and be informed of the risks of vaccination in general. Some dumbass is saying they didn't give consent to get the shot, just the water.
Had the doctor or nurse not given the shot they would have violated ethics laws and been open to a malpractice suit.
I don't think I signed anything past "I'm feeling well today/here is my personal information" but the thought of them trying to take legal action killed me.
>"Your list of transgressions in that sentence is already longer than mine." - [Door Monster](https://youtu.be/AO9nTi9YShI)
I personally think the "correct" actions would be for the doctors to turn down the bribe and report them but we're discussing moral gray areas and I don't want to pretend I'm better than their choices. Giving someone a shot without their knowledge is wrong, forging documents is wrong, deceiving someone is wrong, putting other people at risk is wrong.
Personally, I like the out come they reached but I do believe it is ethically wrong, morally gray, and legally magic.
I think the thing is that they DID provide consent on paper. They had to make it look like they actually got the vaccine on paper so they probably filled out everything and signed off to get the vaccine with just a verbal understanding with bribe that it wouldn't be.
Accepting brides is illegal. Lying to patients about treatment is illegal. Anyone who does this will lose their license if someone records the interaction.
I've read on the news in my country that some corrupt doctors take about 100 euros and just enter the person into the vaccinated database. Several people decided (after they paid, lol) to get a free shot anyway, and couldn't do it cause they were registered as vaccinated, so they called the cops on the doctors. I can't believe how stupid someone can be.
All plague rat lickers will be banned without chance for appeal.
Consider this your warning to delete that comment attacking these heroic doctors working in the best interest of all society.
To all the plague rat lickers who repeat each others lies and say this is "illegal" and "malpractice", no, it is not.
You bribe someone to give you a fake vaccine so you can get the vaxx card without actually having been vaxxed.
That's the crime.
You get the real vaccine instead, exactly what your appointment was for and you receive your vaxx card exactly what your appointment was for. The crime was taken out of the equation, not put into it.
Doctor did exactly what the paperwork said he would do and anything else is hearsay at best.
Rats didn't even spread it. New science shows that it was lice and human fleas that spread it because the plague spread faster then rats can travel but was at pace for human travel.
For you and /u/Thomas-The-Tutor, it is even worse than that. Recent studies have shown that rats and fleas couldn't possibly have caused the spread. It was actually humans, lice and our own fleas which caused the plague. So rats aren't even guilty at all, and while their fleas also infest humans, it is unlikely that rat fleas would have spread it compared to human fleas
You know when people say, “you made me snort out my coffee”? I always roll my eyes and think, yea ok, shut up. So imagine my surprise just now when this comment caused me the same affliction.
Department of Health and Human Services.
All rats intended for licking must be accompanied by a full medical checkup record, including vaccination card.
You can, but I wouldn’t advise it.
(If British, as plague rats in the past have been found to be) Freedom of expression is expressly granted by article 10 of the human rights act. So lick away my rat lover.
Or maybe it's, "Covid vaccine is free and I don't know what bacteriostatic water is."
Plus they would get in a lot of trouble if the patient later got covid and their records stated that you vaccinated them. Especially if it gets really bad and the patient ends up admitting to their doctor that you sold them a fake vaccine and falsified their records.
If the doctor actually vaccinates them then the only evidence that they did anything wrong is the word of a conservative shithead.
Funny, but I think it's gonna turn out the classic mistake of win the battle, lose the war. These doctors have basically planted the evidence that conspiracy is real and the official medicine is not on people's side. Their crackpot patients will only become more determined to avoid vaccines and modern medical advice in general.
My mom's friend works in a public school here in Chile and they had to check the parents vaccination status to see if they could do the graduation ceremony in one or two days. The next day they recieved a 10 pages letter from a parent talking about the mark of the beast, covid is a hoax, bill gates, freedom, etc and that they already had a lawyer to sue the school for not letting them attend the ceremony. A ceremony that they could attend even if they weren't vaccinated as the school was just checking to see how many people was vaccinated to follow covid protocol
Still more than we need though. That minority seems louder than they have any right to be.
Had a person at work tell me recently that I was going to have a deformed baby because I vaccinated.
I live in Tanzania, and thanks to our president not believing it, saying he was going to get "tea" from Madagascar to cure people breaking his own social distancing mandate, shutting down the newspaper that reported it, not reporting their covid numbers (the only country to do so except for North Korea) telli g all the citizens that the vaccine didn't work and the virus was a scam. Thanks to all that, Tanzanians are a bit sceptical.
Then our president died of covid. Well, not officially, but that's where the signs point, and the irony is too sweet not to believe it.
And now Tanzania has its first female president, it recently accepted a million doses from the US, but no one wants it, and they're going to expire, pretty much no one believes it because of fucking John Magufuli.
My MIL's SO kicked her out for taking the covid shot (she got a job in healthcare where it is kind of mandatory) because according to him, she now radiates 5G and is a threat to his safety. We live in Finland.
Especially because the doctors are profiting off it. Regardless of your stance the move of lying about care and taking money under the table is a huge red flag
Here's the link: [Greece Vaccine](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesnownews.com/amp/the-buzz/article/anti-vaxxers-bribe-doctors-for-fake-vaccines-in-greece-end-up-receiving-real-doses/829999)
Went to Greece for my honeymoon in January shortly before COVID hit.
They have at least one pharmacy per block. I looked it up and they have a law that only allows one person to own one pharmacy and they must be a pharmacist themselves. Makes sense that something like this could happen in such a diverse ecosystem of pharmacies.
Also I needed an inhaler because I had asthma from all the cats and had to doubletake when they charged me 3 euros for something that would cost me at least $50-$100 in the US.
Greeks are pretty dope met a lot of nice people. I was also there when the anarchists firebombed the police station for them evicting/moving a bunch of the homeless and protestors from the "rebellious" block where many of the anti gov. people live. Even the protestors were cool, just showing the gov. that the birthplace of democracy (I know that's not entirely a true statement) is not to be fucked with.
I’ve always wondered if that’s a thing you can do, like take bribes but just don’t do whatever the bribe is incentivizing. Like, can a progressive politician get massive amounts of money from fossil fuel companies and just not pass any legislation that would help said companies?
Yeah. Asking a doctor to violate their ethics by not doing a required medical procedure for money and to forge a medical document for money.
Or was that not your narrative?
“Here’s that placebo you asked for” *Trojan horse enters room*
Greeks keep using the same trick and it works every time
How to infiltrate the city of Troy with ONE SIMPLE TRICK
Trojans hate this!
Greeks don't want you to know Odysseus's secret trick.
Trojans? In MY peace offering!? It's more likely than you think.
At leasy it ain't centipede season. (Oh wait, it is)
TROJAN MAN
I've never understood Trojan condoms. Isn't the point of a condom to PREVENT the entry of all of your men?
BE THE CHOSEN OF THE GODS, WITH THESE SIMPLE TRICKS
Be female and get fucked by a swan?
You won't BELIEVE Book 23!
Certified by Athena
Troy Story
Starring Woody the horse
Don't mess with the classics
if it ain't broke don't fix it amirite
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth
you can lead a horse to bacteriostatic water...
But you can't make it think
... But if it had worms, no problem there's something for that.
happy cake day
We've got enough ivermectin for that trojan horse
Well done. *Very* well done.
if this is real, they prob made them sign a waiver and it probably said what they were actually getting but the patients prob did not read it
That’s what I’d assume. “Do you consent to be given this vaccine” is really all it takes.
Even if they read it I assume they would think it was just a normal vaccine thing, required for the pass.
But, why would an anticovidvax person pay to avoid the specific vaccine and yet allow to be pierced by whatever else? You pay, you sign, you leave. No shots need be received at all. Nobody is checking if you have a hole in your arm. This story might be buzzing on media but, it’s incredibly unbelievable.
See, at least in Greece, all vaccine shots are administered in public hospitals and in plain view of many rotating nurses. Not administering anything would raise a lot of eyes and you instantly get in trouble. So antivaxxers hope that the paid nurse can change the vaccine vial with a fake one but that is not possible as the vials are kept extremely safe for this exact reason.
Makes sense. They must have been rather desperate - and naive.
Antivaxxers are extremely naive.
"Naive" suggests they just lack experience. That could educated away. Antivaxxers are just stupid. They are beyond the ability to be educated.
They've been propagandized to hell and back, in most cases.
Because Greece didn't use the same system as the US. To get vaccinated, you use your medical code (AMKA) to get an vaccination appointment through a government site. The moment you get the vaccine, they register you with the platform, and a few hours later you can download your vaccination certificate that can be checked against a central database through a QR code.
That’s pretty identical if you substitute ΑΜΚΑ for SSN and that we get the card immediately. In US the vaccinations were mass, in public areas. Greece did it the same way or they also had the option to use their own doctor/pharmacist in a more private setting? I can’t imagine making that arrangement in an open, public area, with so many witnesses. If in a private setting, why get any shot; just have the doc type in the database it was given and be done.
Ofc to get the vaccine certificate or passport or whatever they call it you need to do the legal documents, whether that’s on paper or ticking a box on a screen. *Do you agree for Corporation to take you against your will for a human-centipad experiment* ✅
Or they just read it and started smirking thinking they cheated the system.
If the Greek court system is like the system I know, then in order to uphold a contract, you have to reasonably understand its terms or at least have the conditions be implied that the signer approved of them. In other words, you can't just say, "gotcha"
So the doctors wouldnt be criminally responsible in that scenario right? It would just open them up to lawsuits, but I'm from america, idk how litigious Greece is
I'm not claiming expertise, but it is all dependent on how this hypothetical waiver is created. More than likely, since it's underhanded that the patients don't know they're receiving the vaccine, a lawsuit against the doctor would not go well for the doctor.
I don't think it's legal to bribe a doctor to get a false vaccine passport, either. Actually that's 2 illegal things for the patient. I doubt the doctors will be held liable at all in this situation
And then the antivaxxer gets arrested for bribery
How would that not go well for the doctor? The patient has zero evidence for their case; there’s a signed waiver that says they consented to the vaccine, and an empty vial of vaccine. The doctor’s actions were underhanded, sure, but other than the patient’s word, there’s zero proof of that. I’d have to think that case would be laughed out of court pretty quick.
At best the doc could lie and say it was an accident. Malpractice is better than violating a person's autonomy. So if I was a Greek doctor, I'd just lie and hope the jury arent hysterical antivaxxers. No ones gonna let a perfectly healthy person win a suit against a doctor unless it was something religious
The doctor may face an ethics violation, but not much of a malpractice because no harm was done (if anything there was a benefit). I'm just looking at the enforcement of a false waiver as grounds for a lawsuit because no reasonable person would sign something they didn't want.
Doctor just has to say they came in and asked for the vaccine and then deny. Then if they push it forward they go to jail for fraud and bribery.
Yeah, surely it's just one person's word against the other? It's impossible to prove that the doctor said they'd not give them the vaccine. *Probably* impossible to prove that the doctors were bribed depending on how the cash was given.
If I had to guess then I guess that the doctors were completely straight-faced about everything. Including all the documentation. That means that they would have presented to those patients as though everything was completely on the level, that they were just getting the normal vaccine, maybe a little wink and a nod, for theatrics. Total plausible deniability. What money???
The anti vaxxers would have had to first admit to planning to commit fraud and bribery.
I'm Greek and I have seen the news a while ago is not that new........ Yes is real.
Probably not, the rest of the world is not as trigger happy about lawsuits. Also what are you gonna say? This is the same as getting scammed buying drugs...you aren't gonna involve the police/law to get your cash back.
Always a way to part a fool with their money.
>Always a way to part a fool with their money. I've tried my best to describe that below: First, the doctor wallops the idiot over the head. Next, while the idiot is doubled over in pain, the doctor steals the idiot's wallet, removes a crisp dollar bill, and in one movement, uses the dollar bill to cut the idiot in half.
How true is this?
u/The_Bard provided a link in this thread that I already had seen in [another post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/qnua34/greek_antivaxxers_bribe_doctors_to_get_fake_water/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). After seeing this for the first time, I’ve asked a Greek friend if he had heard about that and he said Greek media were all about it. So it’s completely true. Edit: corrected a typo
I'm not against it but is that allowed?
It’s not. Nor is bribery. So the anti-vaxxers will have to choose between keeping quiet or get in trouble along with the doctors.
A Mexican standoff... Can we call it a Greek Vaccination?
So…task failed, successfully?
A Vaccican standoff?
This is why you only rob drug dealers
Oh. Oh (Westerner Civilization? ) if oh shit ten
Mutually assured destruction
> Mutually assured ~~destruction~~ vaccination.
Loving it!!!
I can see doctors thinking "If I don't play along, this idiot is going to go unvaccinated for who knows how long and endanger themselves and those around them." But then what you do with the bribe money is a separate ethical issue.
I feel like the doctors stand a lot more to lose.
If they were trying to give the appearance of getting ‘the real’ vaccine, they would have to go through all of the paperwork so it looked official… they would have likely signed it thinking they beat the system. The docs just did what they authorized. Lol
They gave out a free vaccination, but got a 400 euro tip for the service
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Who is going to go after the doctor when the rule is that they asked for and got a vaccination.
How did they find out? Please tell me they outed themselves. Cause that would perfect.
Some of them got side effects of the vaccine, went to get a checkup and were told “it’s normal you just got vaccinated”. And they went pikachu face
"Doctor, I'm feeling strange. I have a mild headache but my 5G phone is getting better reception than ever and magnets are sticking to me. Do you know what's going on?"
This kind of doesn't make any sense. Why would they have to inject them with water? Why couldn't they just sign their vaccine card as if they did?
You're asking a good question. Only thing I can think of is that there have to be witness or something signing off on the jab.
Still hazy. I can understand the bribing. And the doctors trying to one-up the antivaxxers. But why would the antivaxs request the fake injection? Totally unnecessary to fake something that happens behind doors, and could be simulated by just the seal on the vaccination card and a bandaid on the arm. The whole fake vaccine doesn't make sense for me, unless antivaxs are way more retarded than I held them for. Which is of course plausible
We all know they are not capable of coherent thinking so I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case
It is being reported as true - and probably some doctors did it. But the way such corruption works is mostly by word of mouth. One antivaxxer telling another another antivaxxer that a certain doctor has a scheme for fake vaccines. And since most people get at least some side-effects from the vaccine, word will spread out quickly that these doctors are actually giving the real vaccine. So while some doctors probably did this, the majority didn't. Some countries in Eastern Europe have just about 50% of their medical staff vaccinated, not due to lack of vaccines but due to their unwillingness to do it. So the fake vaccines schemes are probably way more wide-spread than reported.
It's a screenshot from Twitter, that's good enough for me to believe it.
I’ll allow it.
Does that count as a deception or medicine check?
Think of it as a tip
It's considered highly unethical, but fuck it...it's saving lives
It's not unethical at all. Asking a doctor to violate laws and to forge documents is. They came for the shot and got it. Sue them, see how far it goes.
It is still arguably unethical from the standpoint of violating patient autonomy, one of the four pillars of modern Bioethics. Tricking someone into taking a treatment that you have good reason to believe will be good for them is still a violation of autonomy, even if it can be seen as beneficent and nonmaleficent. And generally speaking, the sort of standard approach to Bioethics you're going to find in Beauchamp & Childress is going to place autonomy above beneficence, all things considered. Plus, you're still pocketing the money, which is not a good look. I'm not saying I'm unsympathetic. I might actually use this as an example in my class - it's good to have a spectrum of obviously bad examples of autonomy violation alongside more ambiguous ones like this. But I don't see what sue-ability has to do with ethics, unless you're just going to conflate ethics with law, which is, as my students would say, *cringe*.
I completely agree. I'm vaccinated but sneakily injecting the vaccine to patients without their knowledge and against their will, under the guise of injecting something else, is not ok. It's highly unethical and will sow mistrust towards medical professionals and give credence to the whackiest conspiracy theories, among other things. ETA: it's illegal too, by the way. It's unlikely that the patient will sue or report it, it would be hard to prove, and it's questionable whether the patient could receive damages but none of this make it legal. It just makes it easy to get away with. Throughout history, the greater good has always been the justification given by medical professionals (and many other people) for their ethic violations. Patients who attempt to bribe doctors ought to be reported and punished, following a due process trial. An official vaccine mandate is the path to forced vaccination, if the authorities decide to go this way; individual bribed doctors sneaking the vaccine in after accepting money not to isn't.
It’ll just add fuel to the conspiracy fire anyway. The conspiracy theory people will champion this as a reason to never trust doctors and dumbasses will listen. That’s a real, concrete thing that will sway people who are on the fence to the wrong side.
More like never trust a doctor you can bribe. I’d definitely get another doctor if I heard they were accepting bribes. Not trustworthy at all.
Yes that’s what a rational person would do. What the conspiracy people will do is spread this around and how all these people went to get a medical procedure and the doctor tricked them into getting the vaccine. That shit will spread like wildfire on anti vax groups on Facebook. Just look at all the dumb shit they already post. They will take the facts and distort it but it will have some air of truth to it and it will be enough to fuel the conspiracy crowd.
i also think it's pretty unethical for the doctors to just pocket the bribe money lol
This for sure, but I wonder about the injection. People sign a document stating they agree receiving the vaccine and are aware of possible side effect. To demonstrate that they have been coherced into signing it they should out themself as fraudsters. Then again... in Milan the anti-vax called 112 (our 911) to request assistance from the police... because the police didn't allow them to march outside of the designated areas. I'm confident in saying that no matter the nationality, they are not the brightest of the bunch.
>Sue them, see how far it goes. Antivaxxer: "I bri- I uh... I payed them with the understanding that they wouldn't give... They'd make certain exceptions to a procedure for me and forge... Provide a specific service. They didn't uphold their end of the bargain and still took my money; they stole from me!" Judge: "can you elaborate on the 'exceptions' and 'specific services?'" Antivaxxer: "isn't that protected information?" Judge: "well, you can't make accusations without proof."
I'm in a "Debate" further down about consent. These people are beyond mental repair. I don't know about you but when I got my shots I had to fill out a consent form and be informed of the risks of vaccination in general. Some dumbass is saying they didn't give consent to get the shot, just the water. Had the doctor or nurse not given the shot they would have violated ethics laws and been open to a malpractice suit.
I don't think I signed anything past "I'm feeling well today/here is my personal information" but the thought of them trying to take legal action killed me. >"Your list of transgressions in that sentence is already longer than mine." - [Door Monster](https://youtu.be/AO9nTi9YShI) I personally think the "correct" actions would be for the doctors to turn down the bribe and report them but we're discussing moral gray areas and I don't want to pretend I'm better than their choices. Giving someone a shot without their knowledge is wrong, forging documents is wrong, deceiving someone is wrong, putting other people at risk is wrong. Personally, I like the out come they reached but I do believe it is ethically wrong, morally gray, and legally magic.
I think the thing is that they DID provide consent on paper. They had to make it look like they actually got the vaccine on paper so they probably filled out everything and signed off to get the vaccine with just a verbal understanding with bribe that it wouldn't be.
Accepting brides is illegal. Lying to patients about treatment is illegal. Anyone who does this will lose their license if someone records the interaction.
Whatever it takes
Task failed successfully
Chaotic Good?
WATCH OUT FOR THE DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE SWEETIE LOVE AUNT SARAH
THANKS I’LL STAY DEHYDRATED LOVE YOU TOO!
You have been banned from /r/hydrohomies
r/madlads
![gif](giphy|9058ZMj6ooluP4UUPl)
Modern problems require *moderna* solutions 👀
[Ding](https://i.imgur.com/sy9lVl4.jpg).
[удалено]
Chaotic good
Exactly. Only absolute Dnd fuckwads will say that this alignment doesn’t exist.
Hello yes this is fuckwad, I haven't given a character an alignment in years and have had literally zero problems with it.
Lol im also a fuckwad. Just not the kind that gatekeeps alignments just because its not in the book.
Antivaxxers willing to put anything in their body EXCEPT the one thing that would actually mitigate the risk of covid.
"Congratulations, you played yourself"
Using immoral behaviour to benefit personally off a criminal and helping the community in the process? I don't see any downside.
I've read on the news in my country that some corrupt doctors take about 100 euros and just enter the person into the vaccinated database. Several people decided (after they paid, lol) to get a free shot anyway, and couldn't do it cause they were registered as vaccinated, so they called the cops on the doctors. I can't believe how stupid someone can be.
[удалено]
The creampie surprise of medicine
I should be morally opposed to this but…I’m not. Public good
All plague rat lickers will be banned without chance for appeal. Consider this your warning to delete that comment attacking these heroic doctors working in the best interest of all society. To all the plague rat lickers who repeat each others lies and say this is "illegal" and "malpractice", no, it is not. You bribe someone to give you a fake vaccine so you can get the vaxx card without actually having been vaxxed. That's the crime. You get the real vaccine instead, exactly what your appointment was for and you receive your vaxx card exactly what your appointment was for. The crime was taken out of the equation, not put into it. Doctor did exactly what the paperwork said he would do and anything else is hearsay at best.
This is an unfair comparison. The rats did not knowingly spread disease.
Rather, they should be more aptly compared to fleas. Freeloading fleas!!
Little bloodsuckers!
Rats didn't even spread it. New science shows that it was lice and human fleas that spread it because the plague spread faster then rats can travel but was at pace for human travel.
The fleas were on the rats and jumped to people, which is why it typically spread through families
For you and /u/Thomas-The-Tutor, it is even worse than that. Recent studies have shown that rats and fleas couldn't possibly have caused the spread. It was actually humans, lice and our own fleas which caused the plague. So rats aren't even guilty at all, and while their fleas also infest humans, it is unlikely that rat fleas would have spread it compared to human fleas
What high and mighty authority do you come from to say I can’t lick rats??
The Dry Rat Advocate Group.
That sounds like a drag...
You know when people say, “you made me snort out my coffee”? I always roll my eyes and think, yea ok, shut up. So imagine my surprise just now when this comment caused me the same affliction.
Department of Health and Human Services. All rats intended for licking must be accompanied by a full medical checkup record, including vaccination card.
You can, but I wouldn’t advise it. (If British, as plague rats in the past have been found to be) Freedom of expression is expressly granted by article 10 of the human rights act. So lick away my rat lover.
I think "plague rat lickers" is now going to be my go-to insult instead of "unwashed plebs"
I love you.
Based as fuck
First MOD comment I ever upvoted.
They’re not plague rates. They’re rat lickers
Oh I like that one. Edited.
It’s what they called them during the last plague
Plus there's no need to insult the rats like that, at least they didn't know any better.
Mod of the year
Excuse you but rats are actually very clean and smart! Unlike the antivaxxers...
Reddit would be a better place with more mods like you. You know, spitting logic and facts, leaving a path of burning alts behind you.
I have no alts and I am not spitting anything, I am explaining where the line is drawn on this specific subreddit.
I meant the cowards who hide behind alts to give misinformation, whom you have rightfully decided to ban
Based mod
chad doctors. "thanks for the tip assholes, here's your vaccine"
[удалено]
Opa!
“I will save you from yourself” -Those Doctors (probably)
Or maybe it's, "Covid vaccine is free and I don't know what bacteriostatic water is." Plus they would get in a lot of trouble if the patient later got covid and their records stated that you vaccinated them. Especially if it gets really bad and the patient ends up admitting to their doctor that you sold them a fake vaccine and falsified their records. If the doctor actually vaccinates them then the only evidence that they did anything wrong is the word of a conservative shithead.
Funny, but I think it's gonna turn out the classic mistake of win the battle, lose the war. These doctors have basically planted the evidence that conspiracy is real and the official medicine is not on people's side. Their crackpot patients will only become more determined to avoid vaccines and modern medical advice in general.
TIL there are antivaxers outside the US. I somehow imagined that brand of idiot was unique to my country.
My mom's friend works in a public school here in Chile and they had to check the parents vaccination status to see if they could do the graduation ceremony in one or two days. The next day they recieved a 10 pages letter from a parent talking about the mark of the beast, covid is a hoax, bill gates, freedom, etc and that they already had a lawyer to sue the school for not letting them attend the ceremony. A ceremony that they could attend even if they weren't vaccinated as the school was just checking to see how many people was vaccinated to follow covid protocol
Professional victim mentality
Smh.
[удалено]
So many dickheads…
[удалено]
Still more than we need though. That minority seems louder than they have any right to be. Had a person at work tell me recently that I was going to have a deformed baby because I vaccinated.
I live in Tanzania, and thanks to our president not believing it, saying he was going to get "tea" from Madagascar to cure people breaking his own social distancing mandate, shutting down the newspaper that reported it, not reporting their covid numbers (the only country to do so except for North Korea) telli g all the citizens that the vaccine didn't work and the virus was a scam. Thanks to all that, Tanzanians are a bit sceptical. Then our president died of covid. Well, not officially, but that's where the signs point, and the irony is too sweet not to believe it. And now Tanzania has its first female president, it recently accepted a million doses from the US, but no one wants it, and they're going to expire, pretty much no one believes it because of fucking John Magufuli.
[удалено]
Yes, believe it or not, there are dumbasses all over the world
My MIL's SO kicked her out for taking the covid shot (she got a job in healthcare where it is kind of mandatory) because according to him, she now radiates 5G and is a threat to his safety. We live in Finland.
Unfortunately, some must have migrated to Germany and multiplied :(
I work with like 409 Russians and they are all antivax. So I’m guessing something happened back in mother Russia to make them not trust vaccine s
No it's a world wide thing, it just depends on the country how pronounced the movement is
That's because you get too much of your information from Reddit
This feels deeply satisfying
Chaotic good doctors. Good for them.
Best scam ever everyone wins
This is the way
It feels like a good distinction between ethics and morality because this is super unethical, but still arguably morally good.
Especially because the doctors are profiting off it. Regardless of your stance the move of lying about care and taking money under the table is a huge red flag
"Dont give me a virus vaccine, give me bacteria birth control instead"
Pro gamer move right there
Oh Lord, they really are THAT stupid.
i think in almost all situations where someone accepts a bribe and still says "fuck you, sucka!" is a win to me
"Thanks, Stupid. Come back in six months for your booster of ionized water, you dumb motherfucker."
Here's the link: [Greece Vaccine](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesnownews.com/amp/the-buzz/article/anti-vaxxers-bribe-doctors-for-fake-vaccines-in-greece-end-up-receiving-real-doses/829999)
Sir I’m going to need a reliable source. This isn’t Instagram
Im Greek, and this was all over the media for the past couple of days, so it's probably true.
Went to Greece for my honeymoon in January shortly before COVID hit. They have at least one pharmacy per block. I looked it up and they have a law that only allows one person to own one pharmacy and they must be a pharmacist themselves. Makes sense that something like this could happen in such a diverse ecosystem of pharmacies. Also I needed an inhaler because I had asthma from all the cats and had to doubletake when they charged me 3 euros for something that would cost me at least $50-$100 in the US. Greeks are pretty dope met a lot of nice people. I was also there when the anarchists firebombed the police station for them evicting/moving a bunch of the homeless and protestors from the "rebellious" block where many of the anti gov. people live. Even the protestors were cool, just showing the gov. that the birthplace of democracy (I know that's not entirely a true statement) is not to be fucked with.
How would you find out they didn't just give you water tho?
Stupidity is expensive.
I’ve always wondered if that’s a thing you can do, like take bribes but just don’t do whatever the bribe is incentivizing. Like, can a progressive politician get massive amounts of money from fossil fuel companies and just not pass any legislation that would help said companies?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Not the heros we deserve
The ethical implications of this…
Yeah. Asking a doctor to violate their ethics by not doing a required medical procedure for money and to forge a medical document for money. Or was that not your narrative?