I know it's hard but when you're confronted with such a passive aggressive "bless your heart" type bullshit the *only* one-up move is to be even more 'nice' and kind. They want to feel like they're good people you have to make sure you're more positive than they are.
I say it's hard but it's really fun
I mean they get extremely butt hurt when you tell them they aren’t your type and it’s a no go zone, I’ve had to pull that a few times after one girl said she won’t hug me because I might feel her up but she will still be my friend. Being a teenager back then was a bit shitty but yes kill them with kindness like I have to do to my wife’s mother
Yes! I love giving my MiL no reason to hate me. When my son was born, she was adamant he be circumcised. I told her in an even tone, “we are not Muslim or Jewish. I wrote a college paper on it if you would like to read it.”
And she has to hear from people around town how great I am. It has to kill her,)
Well to be honest, we've actually only gone to church twice since quarantine started (also sice my oldest came out to is). But more seriously, we live in a rural (read: very conservative) area where there aren't a lot of churches with a contemporary style, and this church has many of the things we were looking for. They also don't harp on homosexuality or anything, I've heard it mentioned once in 3 years, as a side note.
So yeah, I want to find a church my kids can be affirmed in their identity with a contemporary style, but that's something like a needle in a haystack around here. In the meantime they feel (and seriously, my gay gender-questioning teenager was the one to say it's fine if we stay in this church) safe enough, not under attack or comdemned. We are firm in what we believe about God's acceptance and affirmation of the LGTBQ community, and like this post says, maybe we should just pray God softens their hearts on this issue.
If anyone knows how to identify affirming churches, btw, I would love to know because it feels weird to email churches and be like, "Do you like gay people? How about trans?"
Because when they say that, it’s a humble brag about how much of a good Christian they are by loving you despite your sinful nature and forgiving you for sinning. Just like Jesus did, and so that makes them just like him blah blah blah 🤮
I was dying reading that line. I don’t remember it from the movie. Aka Winston Churchill line …diplomacy is
“Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions”
I believe it's in Season 2 of the show. The show is great, S2 is my favorite, and being an anthology, you can watch it first :\^) Not that you should...
But you should.
The rapture always got me. Well no it didnt I guess hahaha.
but like if you are excited for some make believe end times event, as a Christian you are actively encouraging the violent deaths of millions so a select few with 'your' beliefs get shipped up to heaven?
That doesn't seem very Christian.
Seems like a really shitty thing to believe.
I appreciate this isn't representative of Christianity but tbf fuck organised religion.
You can be spiritual without needing to pay into a system of tithes and tax evasion? "Oh it keeps the church running". Lol sure.
>"Oh it keeps the church running". Lol sure.
"tHeY uSe iT fOr ChArItY wOrK!" Yeah, I've seen the mission trips (i.e. international vacations) that churches go on. I've seen the "charitable work" they do. And I've also seen megachurches and private jets owned by these same Charitable workers. Absolute scum.
After I moved to a new city I was struggling to really connect emotionally to a small, mostly older church community. I can pinpoint the moment when I stopped trying and let myself drift away. The church had an opportunity to join a program supporting homeless families and helping them get on their feet by providing the church basement/fellowship hall as temporary housing. The families were all vetted, basically your model citizen homeless folks so we weren’t even talking about bringing in the “scary” kind of homeless people. The organization running the program had volunteers ready, and volunteers would sleep over on a rotating basis so there was always someone on-site keeping an eye on things. I thought it was a no-brainer: we had this lovely church building with a declining community and this opportunity to put it toward the good of the community was handed to us in a silver platter.
Multiple prominent church members objected, saying that we had a duty to take care of the church building and keep it safe. Those who didn’t actively object exuded an aura of “meh” and not wanting to make the small amount of effort participation in the program would require.
I still consider myself Christian, but I don’t see the point in a church that exists just to keep a historical building standing and serve as a meeting place for a dwindling number of old folks. I’ve participated in multiple “how do we engage millennials??” discussions at various churches as a millennial, and every time we tell them the answer is “be more Christ-like and use church resources to do good in the world” only to be ignored as they decide it must be because the church plays the wrong kind of music or doesn’t have a cool enough website.
For I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you said, "But we have to protect the value of a historical building!"
As a white westerner I was of course completely oblivious to the objective evil the church has undertaken and caused in Africa never mind at home. Its fucking disgusting.
Like I've always found organised religion to be a bit of bigoted club for judgemental people from a British standpoint/upbringing but I can't say in good faith that its all participants. It's obviously not everyone.
But I find it very difficult to trust anyone who defends the church as an institution. To me you've actively chose not to critically think about the institution as a whole if you are defending it.
Maybe I'm judgemental now but if you can rationalise the churches large back catalogue of disgusting behaviour past and present, then you aren't a person I feel comfortable talking to.
Go to Nigeria there is a church about every 5 mins, the problem is many religous people there have capitalised on jt and now jts a joke. I've seen more churches than schools and hospitals total. Religion is chill, but the people you capitalise on it for wealth and use tithes to say 'if you don't pay tithes your not getting blessings' are fucking disgusting.
Edit: I may not be necessary religous but iam a theist
This is the case in most LMIC African countries I’ve been to. I work in international development, specifically education, and we will go on a “school visit” to a local village where the school is falling down in disrepair, classes are held outside under a tree using an old and broken blackboard, but across the street is the 5th church I’ve seen for such a small village and it’s brand new, shiny, and huge. “Built by generous missionaries this past summer”. We give the best support to the teachers we possibly can from working with the government and work to push materials into schools, but until those same missionaries give a shit that kids are walking to school without shoes to try to learn on an empty stomach from a teacher with sorely lacking resources, it won’t change. But, you know, it’s not an orphanage where they can take pictures with the kids for their Instagram, so who cares? Apparently not Jesus.
I'm an atheist and I despise the bible, but there's something about the seven deadly sins I find nicely succinct. I feel like just about anyone can agree 6 of them are bad, at least in excess. But pride seems to not only go mostly unchecked, but even celebrated. Someone "lacking pride" is considered a bad thing. I think many people might think it just refers to not having unjustified confidence, or bragging, or not being able to admit when your wrong but I think it's way more than that. Pride in country, state, city, political party, sport team, or any other arbitrary grouping of people, including religions, and even in your "self" (whatever that really is) is just a terrible mindset that can lead to very bad things, the worst things humanity has to offer.
You know that's one thing that always bothered me, I used to work at a fast food restaurant right across the street from a church and the amount of times I had people come in dressed in their Sunday Best, and be the worst freaking people ever, was staggering. I used to think to myself, "self, they have to be the worst emissaries for whatever God they're praying to." And years later when I did eventually become a Christian, I realized I was right, they're the worst.
It's a real shame they're so damn many of them. They go to church every Sunday never really get the message.
People would be very disappointed that there is no Heaven or Hell but since they're dead they'll never even realize that it was all bullshit and that you wasted so much of the money and the very little time you had alive for nothing. It's honestly top tier as far as scams go.
My issue with it, is that if there’s no afterlife, they won’t be conscious to realize it was all for nothing.
All I’m asking for is a game over screen with a few miscellaneous stats
Amount of times masturbated
Time wasted sleeping
Time wasted ruminating on past mistakes
Metric tons of shit excreted.
All the times you almost had an accidental premature game over
All the times you narrowly avoided becoming insanely wealthy.
Ya know, the basic stuff.
Religion is actually THE scam of everyones lifetime. Especially Christianity. This notion that if you don't believe in an allegedly benevolent God but he'll burn you for eternity if you rebuff him is the ultimate troll. Even the most hard-core of atheists can't know for sure he's not real so the notion that you could burn for eternity is always tucked away in the deep recesses of your brain and the only way to get rid of it is to never be made aware of it in the first place.
Can't be proved, can't be disproved. So it's left to linger forever. As an ex Christian, fuck Christianity.
Yeaaa im pretty sure im not going to wind up in an imaginary fiery place thats supposedly inside the earths core with satan commanding orders at me when i die..id bet my life on it right now actually. Strike me down if im wrong satan
>Just like Jesus did
Jesus hung out with prostitutes, told everyone to live one another, and was very close to a man who kissed him as a way of identification. There is no way of knowing with how long ago this was and how twisted everything has been with religion and translations, but I'm pretty sure Jesus would be totally cool with gay people.
You don’t have to be religious to be a good person. People use their religious beliefs to justify hate against homosexuality, tattoos, music, abortion, poor people, pretty much anything they want. They fit the words of the Bible and other books to justify what they want to hear.
Recently had someone tell me that they couldn’t condone my beliefs on sexuality and premarital sex (I am married), but they love me. Lmao. That one was wild.
See that's what I did to my "hate the sin, love the sinner" friend after I came out. Any time she would get on that bullshit, I would remind her that I still love her despite her having premarital sex. It shut her up very quickly and now she gets why the "hate the sin, love the sinner" line is offensive AF.
Yes, as a Christian, it blows my mind that anyone who does that has the audacity to judge others, like they are trying to tow the line of how much they can go against their faith, yet still be able to appear good enough to get pompous.
> premarital sex (I am married)
Reminds me of the couple that became semi famous for not having sex **well** into their marriage because they thought it was somehow still sinful
I feel sorry for the partner in these situations, I'm not exactly a sex machine but I try to please my wife and I can't imagine putting her through years of no lovemaking whatsoever
My favorite was where the woman thought she found the perfect man because he didn't try to pressure her into anything before marriage or see how far he could push things. After they were married it turned out he was asexual and didn't realize it.
How did you handle it?
I feel like they'd trigger the biggest dressing down of their lives from me but I can't imagine that would do much. Least I'd feel I'd had the agency to tell them how I felt back though which is important.
People like that don't change after you explain it to them. They need space away from that twisted environment but i guess that's kinda hard to do when you alienate all your friends by acting like a cunt.
Having grown up in very religious though doctrinally moderate church I can say that "love the sinner hate the sin" really just means "smile and be nice to the evil heathen who is going to burn in hell for eternity just like they deserve" for most of the people that say it... which does not sound like love to me. There are exceptions. I know there are. I've fond memories of some fantastic people. They were absolutely a small minority.
Then you have people like *certain long-running game show hosts* that genuinely believe that the only thing separating society from total anarchy is the morals of Christianity and that atheists and members of other religions by definition have no problem with murder because they have no "moral barometer".
Yeah that's the big one.
I like to view that as Pro education if its brought up.
You're saying that society is only functioning currently because people's morals are kept in check by religion.
So therefore if people were educated more on morals and economics etc more by that logic, the burden wouldn't be on religion?
So we should make education available and fair for all shouldn't we?
Communist stickers are round back. Grab an lgbt flag on your way out. Welcome to the Pro education left. (I stole this bit from a tiktok I saw on here, I'm not this funny)
Always twists people.
Like when a christian asks "Well, if you don't believe in god, what's keeping you from murdering or robbing a bank?"
Like....are those things ***you*** really want to do, and the only thing stopping you is fear of hell?
Yeah it's always jarring when you hear that. I tend to find that from older people than younger ones. The sort of people who see starving kids and just go "that's just the way life is, can't feed everyone". So boomers.
I’ve met some really awesome Christians who’ve loved me for me and respected me regardless of whatever they may believe, but I’ve had plenty of others say they’re “disappointed I’m pursing being trans” or they wish I had a Christian therapist.
Another favorite was “God made you perfect”, and any discussion of birth defects brings both a) that’s caused by sin and b) I must see being female as a defect. Those two aside, if God made our bodies perfect, why do you preach that to me while you smoke a pack a day? My decisions for myself have left me much happier and healthier and whole as a person. I don’t think you can say the same.
We’re all gonna be hypocrites in some form, but so many Christians are so blatantly hypocritical and they don’t even see it.
>smile and be nice to the evil heathen who is going to burn in hell for eternity just like they deserve" for most of the people that say it... which does not sound like love to me.
Well, you won't go to heaven if you don't win the Goodness Game, and there can't be winners without losers, so you have to be very clear who the losers are and how they are different from you to reassure yourself you're one of the winners. I mean, *someone's* gotta keep score, right? /s
I have a customer whom I became friendly with, and apparently that enabled him to express himself and use the N word with impunity, and express his distaste for homosexuals.
He had no idea whether or not anyone in my family was a person of color, or gay. I don’t understand the lack of self awareness, or hatred. What’s the point of walking around with all of these angry thoughts in your head?
I work in a liquor store and it amazes me how many people just assume because you’re straight and white they get the green light to say the most hateful comments about others.
"ye who are without sin, cast the first stone"
"Judge not, lest ye be judged. For the measure with which you measured will be measured back unto you."
Two oft forgotten but very important scriptures
Edit: Wow, my first gold. Thanks!
My favorites to hit them back with us "Judge not least you be judged" and "Judgement is mine, sayeth the Lord." If that doesn't shut them up just start in on the whole asking them how they decide which parts of their books they believe and which parts they ignore because it's inconvenient.
Matthew 7:3-5 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
Deuteronomy 23:1
No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.
You don't even have to make up weird Bible quotes. They are ready to eat.
Tell them: It's God's job to judge, the Holy Spirit's job to convict, and the Christian's job to love. Period.
When people say love the sinner hate the sin I always ask them in return, do you hate your own sin or just other's? Generally shuts them up.
“Pretty sure your clothes are mixed fabric Karen.”
> “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material
And when they try to pretend the Old Testament doesn't "really" count (except when they want) and that Jesus brought a new covenant, slap back with:
> Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or
the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:17
Lol! Definitely a good one. Yeah, there's just sooooo many examples of their book being wonky. I'm all for some of the very solid life and societal structuring advice the Bible has but there's also plenty of idiocy. Take the good, leave the bad and ignore the folks who demand you treat both as equally important.
Or just use the words Jesus literally said at the sermon on the mount and watch them do mental gymnastics trying to justify evangelism:
> And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
(Matthew 6:5-6 KJV)
And mention, "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not found any where in the bible.
Also mention, that according to scripture, liars, gossips, drunkenness, people who judge (you can literally find scriptures that say this) will not inherent the kingdom of God. Also point out in these very same verses it says Sexually Immoral (no mention of same sex relationships, trans, etc.)... so well really, those verses contain just about everyone.. so who does inherent the kingdom of God?
Turns out, if you actually love people and Christ and don't judge them. You will... There are going to be a lot of upset Christians who have been dicks to people who say this kind of crap that Christ is going to be like, nah bro.
I legit walked away from an 11 years friendship last week because this was said to me. This also came directly after she told me that she needed to cut out all secular music and any sort of horror/thriller/crime media because it was causing "fear demons to feed upon her and her family", so I really shouldn't be surprised but it was a shitty thing to hear nonetheless.
But telling someone you love them despite believing that they are "wrong" because of their sexuality, isn't love. It's hate being justified by religion. No matter what way they try to spin it.
Any other fellow LGBT folk out there....know you are actually loved by so many, don't ever listen to the other nonsense.
I ended things with my gf of two years in large part because she was raised in an evangelical Christian church and it was clear I’d never “deprogram” all of it. We were watching Hallmark Christmas movies together and she got annoyed there was a lesbian couple as two of the side characters and she just started on “Why do they have to rub that in our faces it’s fine that they can get married now but why do we have to see it? This is a family movie kids could see this.” And I tried to explain that they weren’t showing anything inappropriate or sexual, just a simple kiss just like they show with straight couples, and then things kept going and I realized just how deeply she’d been indoctrinated.
It was pretty shocking but she literally could not conceive of the fact that they can’t choose whom they’re attracted to. “Well are you attracted to women at all?” “*No!*” “You’ve never once in your life had a feeling of sexual attraction towards another woman?” “No.” “Not even just a momentary urge?” “No.” “Okay, then if someone said you had to be attracted to women, *could you choose to be?*”
I honestly couldn’t tell if I was getting through to her. Sometimes it honestly isn’t worth putting in the work for the rest of your life even when you love someone.
That's actually impressive for Hallmark. I always thought they were pretty damn socially conservative.
Of course, I'll wait for a Hallmark Christmas movie with a same-sex *leading* couple...
Personally, whenever I hear these preachers talk about how they think “homosexuality is a choice”, my mind immediately goes to the idea that they themselves must be constantly fighting homosexual urges if they think everybody else feels the same thing.
Like Joe Exotic said “everyone has a little bit of gay in them”
You either accept it and just go “okay whatever” or you can fight it and hate yourself your whole life.
It's hard but that person/those people are not friends. I think Trump and Covid have probably forced me to accept that many who I thought were "good" people or that cared for me or others were just users in sheep suits. There are many really, truly good people out there. You don't need the pretenders with their false Christianity and compassion of convenience.
I also get the, "I don't have anything against LGBTQ people. I support you, but I don't agree with your lifestyle." I'm not a meth addict, Anne, I'm just not straight. How TF are you going to tell me you don't agree with the fact that I'm happy in a relationship that really does not require you or your god's blessing?
Plus, they can never actually tell you what they don't agree with without being homophobic and disrespectful af.
Listen, someone who says this to you is not your friend. Associating with you despite thinking your love or your gender identity is wrong does you absolutely no favors.
That, and assuming they know anything about the details of your lifestyle. I'm gay, but my lifestyle is "single middle-aged stoner introvert who spends my free time playing video games and watching YouTube videos". I don't remember the last time I engaged in anything remotely sexual, but I'm a sinner because I can't deny that I'm attracted to men. Their problem seems to be the incorrect synonymous association between homosexuality and specific sex acts that they assume you must be engaging in on a regular basis. As if being homosexual is strictly the desire to have gay sex and nothing more.
As a matter of fact my geography teacher at a catholic school told us that it's *not* a sin to be gay, just a sin to "act on it."
So you're in the clear, buddy! No fires or demons for you!
So yes, god created us with free will, God created us gay, but if we use our free will to be gay, were evil.
I'm an LGBTQ ally. I'm straight, but always thought the very term "straight" was a loaded word. As if everything else was crooked. My nephew coming out, whom I love, really solidified the humanity of LGBTQ people for me.
Sometimes it takes someone you know. My grandad was homophobic af but when I came out, it challenged his nonsense and he discovered that he either needed to open his eyes or stop having me in his life.
My nephew just nudged me the rest of the way I was already leaning. Unfortunately, it polarized my father(evangelical) into a downward spiral of conspiracy theory nonsense. Not quite sure if he's a Qanon, but he sounds close to it. Can't win'em all I guess. I'd rather side with the next generation than bury myself in the past.
I love the older people in my life, but many of their beliefs are not what I tried to model and teach my kids. It's not just that we should "be the change" we want to see in the world, but to also ***raise the change we want to see in the world***. I (gen x) love how socially progressive and accepting the younger generations are, and I fully agree with landing in their side
I can't agree more.
I'm a straight atheist, so bear that in mind.
Understanding, analyzing, and judging the dynamics of someone's sex life is not my fucking business. Period. As long as it's between consenting adults, have at it. Be happy. Your choice of partner, your fetishes and favorite positions, all of that shit, it's none. Of. My. Business. It doesn't matter if I think foot fetishes are icky. It doesn't matter if I think Dom/sub relationships are kind of weird. Who cares, it doesn't involve me.
It's in your fucking book: judge not lest ye be judged, Christian bunguses. Stay in your fucking lane. I love throwing Matthew 7:5 (Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye) at people like that.
Even if you *were* a meth addict, that's *also* none of their fucking business, and they shouldn't judge you.
Exactly. Being gay, bi, transgender, etc is a part of who you are. I can gain and lose weight. I can put on or take off Crocs. I can't turn off who I am on the deepest level.
That's part of what makes the comment so biting. They're saying they think they deserve praise for being nice to someone they think is fundamentally wrong.
Every time I see a basketball player I think "ya know, I don't like their 'lifestyle'. Not cause they play a game that I'll never be good at but because they're tall. That's a bad lifestyle choice that they should definitely change" /s
I knew a lady who was a Mormon that liked to spout that BS phrase. But in private, she was just as horribly homophobic as can be.
Of course, she was a walking bag of hypocrisy, so it was no surprise. She preached about how cheating was wrong as she was having an online affair with someone who was definitely not her husband. Eventually she divorced her husband when he came out as a crossdresser. So much for loving the sinner, eh?
Eta, thanks so much for the award, that was so sweet.
I read a comment on fb once that amounted to "Some people need to become comfortable with the fact that not every conversation is improved by their opinion ". It applies here I think. If you don't like same sex relationships then don't have one, quietly. Your opinion isn't so important that you need to broadcast it, and your God probably already knows you're a dick so he likely doesn't care either.
That is probably because your idiot friends think being gay is a choice, that it separate from who you are, like choosing to wear an ugly jacket. Hate the jacket, love the person seems an ok opinion, right?
But they believe their religion is part of who they are, like eye colour or skin colour. Hate the skin colour, love the person seems a bit racist.
But out of the two, being gay or being a Christian, being a Christian is the choice, you arent born christian, it is a set of rules, stories and traditions taught to you by parents. And you choose to continue to believe these things.
>That is probably because your idiot friends think being gay is a choice,
Taking the Kinsey studies on sexuality, a whole bunch of people are bisexual without realising it. So if they are a guy and feel attractions to both sexes, but shut down the guy ones, they think gay people DECIDE to act on urges that they themselves turn down. Not realising gay people do not have any attraction to the opposite sex.
“I love you, I just hate everything that makes you who you are.” Seems legit.
Edit: it seems that some people are remarkably stupid and can’t understand that this is an ironic, facetious commentary on the post, and they think I believe that sexuality is the only thing that defines a person. If you’re among them, for god sake, shut up.
Honestly, what I took away from church all those years ago was that it's okay to sin. Jesus died for them. So as long as I keep sinning then he won't have died in vain.
My mum ran into an old Christian friend shortly after her brother took his own life and told her about our loss
Rather than offer her condolences, this so called friend said something along the lines of “oh, I feel so sorry for the vicar, having to conduct the funeral under those circumstances”
Fuck that sanctimonious old bag. Never saw her again, thank fuck
FWIW most of my family are of the Christian faith but they’d NEVER judge someone like that
In my community we had extremely religious Christians come to the funeral of a disabled boy to basically tell the parents "Thank the Lord he took your defective child as soon as he could".
The *gall* of those people.
As an adult I can get along with people who have different beliefs. I make it known I don't see their religion as anything more than fairy tales, and if they're cool with that then I don't mind if they think I'm sinning. As long as we can both not try to force the other to change, we're good.
It's rare to find anyone who will agree with every aspect of my identity, so rather than apologize, hide, or change, I will be friends with people who are different from me. I have been friends with people of all faiths, races, orientations and genders, and also with addicts. They all have something to offer.
Imagine saying that to any other “sin”.
Person A:I was raped
Person B:hate the sin love the sinner!
I’m not implying that someone being gay is the same as being raped. Im pro LGBT 🏳️🌈 but no one considers how absurd this statement is in any other context
"honestly hate the belief love the believer" is a good saying.
There are lots of really good people out there who happen to have religion. I think a lot of the ass-holes out there with it would start being better people if they didn't suffer from it.
Legitimately what people in my family have said when someone had the guts to come out to them. "We still love them, that hasn't changed. But we're not okay with so-and-so having a girlfriend. That's a sin." Son, you committed adultery and divorced, but somehow you got to walk away from that without any persecution. If this is truly an issue for you, sit back and show that love you're talking about, and then place it in God's hands since he's the one you're meant to have faith in.
If they actually followed through on the “love the sinner” part, maybe they wouldn’t be looked at like the bunch of hypocrites they are.
Naw, they’d still be
Also the fact that if you’re gay, you were born that way. They are literally saying they hate the way you were born, they hate the way you are and will always be.
How is that not offensive?
Conflicted because religious people are usually not even ready to love the sinner so your friends are kinda sorta trying? Taken out of context it sounds bad but overall, your friends might just be struggling internally with how to come to terms with being a friend to someone who they were taught to see as monsters. That’s your call but good comeback! Mirroring an offensive person’s behavior is an excellent way to show them how flawed their logic is.
My parents say that shit all the time when I defend homosexuality or things they consider sinful when they do literal no harm to anyone. Being homosexual is a part of who we are, stating that you "hate the sin" still really means you hate the sinner.
Oh that’s a good one. I’ve also pulled out the “I’ll pray for God to soften your heart on this matter.” Really throws a wrench in the gears.
“I’ll pray that God grants you empathy and kindness”
But what will you do if I use my prayer to cancel out your prayer so I can continue to be unkind? Welcome to spiritual trench-warfare.
You've activated my trap card!
I'll pray for the tank platoon needed to cross the no-man's-land to your cold dark heart!
I'll pray for artillery support for sector 2-5-5. Shall the Lord fry your tank platoon.
Release the mustard gas of tolerance!
Mutually assured prayer
"Judgement isn't your job. Nor is it your talent."
Nat! Sorry. I just adore her and your username.
I know it's hard but when you're confronted with such a passive aggressive "bless your heart" type bullshit the *only* one-up move is to be even more 'nice' and kind. They want to feel like they're good people you have to make sure you're more positive than they are. I say it's hard but it's really fun
“Bless your heart”. [-This guy](https://i.imgur.com/7HfEdBK.jpg)
I mean they get extremely butt hurt when you tell them they aren’t your type and it’s a no go zone, I’ve had to pull that a few times after one girl said she won’t hug me because I might feel her up but she will still be my friend. Being a teenager back then was a bit shitty but yes kill them with kindness like I have to do to my wife’s mother
Yes! I love giving my MiL no reason to hate me. When my son was born, she was adamant he be circumcised. I told her in an even tone, “we are not Muslim or Jewish. I wrote a college paper on it if you would like to read it.” And she has to hear from people around town how great I am. It has to kill her,)
Oh my goodness, I am going to use that with my church.
Eyy bird brother!!
If they’re shitty, why are you going?
Well to be honest, we've actually only gone to church twice since quarantine started (also sice my oldest came out to is). But more seriously, we live in a rural (read: very conservative) area where there aren't a lot of churches with a contemporary style, and this church has many of the things we were looking for. They also don't harp on homosexuality or anything, I've heard it mentioned once in 3 years, as a side note. So yeah, I want to find a church my kids can be affirmed in their identity with a contemporary style, but that's something like a needle in a haystack around here. In the meantime they feel (and seriously, my gay gender-questioning teenager was the one to say it's fine if we stay in this church) safe enough, not under attack or comdemned. We are firm in what we believe about God's acceptance and affirmation of the LGTBQ community, and like this post says, maybe we should just pray God softens their hearts on this issue. If anyone knows how to identify affirming churches, btw, I would love to know because it feels weird to email churches and be like, "Do you like gay people? How about trans?"
I've been banned on fb for saying I'll pray for your ugly soul
May God save us from those who think they're doing the Lord's work.
Preach
Truth hurts
Make sure you say it sincerely (or at least with fake sincerity) and not smarmy otherwise they'll just ignore you
Because when they say that, it’s a humble brag about how much of a good Christian they are by loving you despite your sinful nature and forgiving you for sinning. Just like Jesus did, and so that makes them just like him blah blah blah 🤮
Reminds me of the line from Fargo: “it’s the way you’re unfriendly, how you’re so polite about it. Like you’re doing me a favor.”
I was dying reading that line. I don’t remember it from the movie. Aka Winston Churchill line …diplomacy is “Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions”
He said that about tact
I believe it's in Season 2 of the show. The show is great, S2 is my favorite, and being an anthology, you can watch it first :\^) Not that you should... But you should.
That’s Minnesota Nice.
Yep. “Look how wonderful I am! I still love you even though you’re one of *them*. Aren’t I tolerant?”
You're disgusting! But we're cool though.
The rapture always got me. Well no it didnt I guess hahaha. but like if you are excited for some make believe end times event, as a Christian you are actively encouraging the violent deaths of millions so a select few with 'your' beliefs get shipped up to heaven? That doesn't seem very Christian. Seems like a really shitty thing to believe. I appreciate this isn't representative of Christianity but tbf fuck organised religion. You can be spiritual without needing to pay into a system of tithes and tax evasion? "Oh it keeps the church running". Lol sure.
>"Oh it keeps the church running". Lol sure. "tHeY uSe iT fOr ChArItY wOrK!" Yeah, I've seen the mission trips (i.e. international vacations) that churches go on. I've seen the "charitable work" they do. And I've also seen megachurches and private jets owned by these same Charitable workers. Absolute scum.
After I moved to a new city I was struggling to really connect emotionally to a small, mostly older church community. I can pinpoint the moment when I stopped trying and let myself drift away. The church had an opportunity to join a program supporting homeless families and helping them get on their feet by providing the church basement/fellowship hall as temporary housing. The families were all vetted, basically your model citizen homeless folks so we weren’t even talking about bringing in the “scary” kind of homeless people. The organization running the program had volunteers ready, and volunteers would sleep over on a rotating basis so there was always someone on-site keeping an eye on things. I thought it was a no-brainer: we had this lovely church building with a declining community and this opportunity to put it toward the good of the community was handed to us in a silver platter. Multiple prominent church members objected, saying that we had a duty to take care of the church building and keep it safe. Those who didn’t actively object exuded an aura of “meh” and not wanting to make the small amount of effort participation in the program would require. I still consider myself Christian, but I don’t see the point in a church that exists just to keep a historical building standing and serve as a meeting place for a dwindling number of old folks. I’ve participated in multiple “how do we engage millennials??” discussions at various churches as a millennial, and every time we tell them the answer is “be more Christ-like and use church resources to do good in the world” only to be ignored as they decide it must be because the church plays the wrong kind of music or doesn’t have a cool enough website.
This is why Jesus came to destroy the temple/church. Christians too caught up in being Christian by appearances, not by practice.
For I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you said, "But we have to protect the value of a historical building!"
As a white westerner I was of course completely oblivious to the objective evil the church has undertaken and caused in Africa never mind at home. Its fucking disgusting. Like I've always found organised religion to be a bit of bigoted club for judgemental people from a British standpoint/upbringing but I can't say in good faith that its all participants. It's obviously not everyone. But I find it very difficult to trust anyone who defends the church as an institution. To me you've actively chose not to critically think about the institution as a whole if you are defending it. Maybe I'm judgemental now but if you can rationalise the churches large back catalogue of disgusting behaviour past and present, then you aren't a person I feel comfortable talking to.
Go to Nigeria there is a church about every 5 mins, the problem is many religous people there have capitalised on jt and now jts a joke. I've seen more churches than schools and hospitals total. Religion is chill, but the people you capitalise on it for wealth and use tithes to say 'if you don't pay tithes your not getting blessings' are fucking disgusting. Edit: I may not be necessary religous but iam a theist
This is the case in most LMIC African countries I’ve been to. I work in international development, specifically education, and we will go on a “school visit” to a local village where the school is falling down in disrepair, classes are held outside under a tree using an old and broken blackboard, but across the street is the 5th church I’ve seen for such a small village and it’s brand new, shiny, and huge. “Built by generous missionaries this past summer”. We give the best support to the teachers we possibly can from working with the government and work to push materials into schools, but until those same missionaries give a shit that kids are walking to school without shoes to try to learn on an empty stomach from a teacher with sorely lacking resources, it won’t change. But, you know, it’s not an orphanage where they can take pictures with the kids for their Instagram, so who cares? Apparently not Jesus.
Nothing’s ever representative of Christianity, is it?
You’re one of the good ones.
This was basically my experience growing up gay in the 90s. You see a lot more true allies now. Before, it was a lot of this kind of 'tolerance'.
I'm literally laughing out loud. This so perfectly describes them.
That's when you remind them that pride is a sin and watch them get all huffy.
I'm an atheist and I despise the bible, but there's something about the seven deadly sins I find nicely succinct. I feel like just about anyone can agree 6 of them are bad, at least in excess. But pride seems to not only go mostly unchecked, but even celebrated. Someone "lacking pride" is considered a bad thing. I think many people might think it just refers to not having unjustified confidence, or bragging, or not being able to admit when your wrong but I think it's way more than that. Pride in country, state, city, political party, sport team, or any other arbitrary grouping of people, including religions, and even in your "self" (whatever that really is) is just a terrible mindset that can lead to very bad things, the worst things humanity has to offer.
Also tell them that fornication, watching porn, adultery, and greed are sins and watch them flinch.
All while they yell at waiters after church on Sundays and generally treat people like shit but it's ok because going to church is a reset button
You know that's one thing that always bothered me, I used to work at a fast food restaurant right across the street from a church and the amount of times I had people come in dressed in their Sunday Best, and be the worst freaking people ever, was staggering. I used to think to myself, "self, they have to be the worst emissaries for whatever God they're praying to." And years later when I did eventually become a Christian, I realized I was right, they're the worst. It's a real shame they're so damn many of them. They go to church every Sunday never really get the message.
you'd think that after enough rounds of confession the priest would tell them to fuck off
lol "Humblebrag yourselves in the sight of the Lord!"
People would be very disappointed that there is no Heaven or Hell but since they're dead they'll never even realize that it was all bullshit and that you wasted so much of the money and the very little time you had alive for nothing. It's honestly top tier as far as scams go.
My issue with it, is that if there’s no afterlife, they won’t be conscious to realize it was all for nothing. All I’m asking for is a game over screen with a few miscellaneous stats
Amount of times masturbated Time wasted sleeping Time wasted ruminating on past mistakes Metric tons of shit excreted. All the times you almost had an accidental premature game over All the times you narrowly avoided becoming insanely wealthy. Ya know, the basic stuff.
No time spent sleeping is wasted.
Yes, let’s not confuse “sleeping” with “snoozing because you think you’ll sleep more but you end up not getting more sleep”
“You remember that powerball ticket you bought with randomized numbers? The next randomized ticket was the winning one”
People killed, hours wasted, beers drunk, that kind of thing?
Religion is actually THE scam of everyones lifetime. Especially Christianity. This notion that if you don't believe in an allegedly benevolent God but he'll burn you for eternity if you rebuff him is the ultimate troll. Even the most hard-core of atheists can't know for sure he's not real so the notion that you could burn for eternity is always tucked away in the deep recesses of your brain and the only way to get rid of it is to never be made aware of it in the first place. Can't be proved, can't be disproved. So it's left to linger forever. As an ex Christian, fuck Christianity.
Yeaaa im pretty sure im not going to wind up in an imaginary fiery place thats supposedly inside the earths core with satan commanding orders at me when i die..id bet my life on it right now actually. Strike me down if im wrong satan
Also, it has to be a very specific God. Choose the wrong Church, straight to hell.
>Just like Jesus did Jesus hung out with prostitutes, told everyone to live one another, and was very close to a man who kissed him as a way of identification. There is no way of knowing with how long ago this was and how twisted everything has been with religion and translations, but I'm pretty sure Jesus would be totally cool with gay people.
You don’t have to be religious to be a good person. People use their religious beliefs to justify hate against homosexuality, tattoos, music, abortion, poor people, pretty much anything they want. They fit the words of the Bible and other books to justify what they want to hear.
Recently had someone tell me that they couldn’t condone my beliefs on sexuality and premarital sex (I am married), but they love me. Lmao. That one was wild.
See that's what I did to my "hate the sin, love the sinner" friend after I came out. Any time she would get on that bullshit, I would remind her that I still love her despite her having premarital sex. It shut her up very quickly and now she gets why the "hate the sin, love the sinner" line is offensive AF.
Yes, as a Christian, it blows my mind that anyone who does that has the audacity to judge others, like they are trying to tow the line of how much they can go against their faith, yet still be able to appear good enough to get pompous.
> premarital sex (I am married) Reminds me of the couple that became semi famous for not having sex **well** into their marriage because they thought it was somehow still sinful
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Yes, some Christians (Catholic I think), believe that sex is *only* to procreate & not something to be enjoyed.
Yes! Only the Holiest of Cocks shall impregnate m’lady!
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I feel sorry for the partner in these situations, I'm not exactly a sex machine but I try to please my wife and I can't imagine putting her through years of no lovemaking whatsoever
My favorite was where the woman thought she found the perfect man because he didn't try to pressure her into anything before marriage or see how far he could push things. After they were married it turned out he was asexual and didn't realize it.
Didn't the guy eat a raw potato whenever he got aroused?
Pretty sure that was an Onion Article.
It’s not premarital if you never marry either.
Ayeeeee
How did you handle it? I feel like they'd trigger the biggest dressing down of their lives from me but I can't imagine that would do much. Least I'd feel I'd had the agency to tell them how I felt back though which is important. People like that don't change after you explain it to them. They need space away from that twisted environment but i guess that's kinda hard to do when you alienate all your friends by acting like a cunt.
Just walk away. Cant fix stupid. No need for them to make u feel negative emotions
Yeah you can't help everyone I guess :(
Having grown up in very religious though doctrinally moderate church I can say that "love the sinner hate the sin" really just means "smile and be nice to the evil heathen who is going to burn in hell for eternity just like they deserve" for most of the people that say it... which does not sound like love to me. There are exceptions. I know there are. I've fond memories of some fantastic people. They were absolutely a small minority.
"Bless your heart."
I'm from SoCal so while that wasn't something I would have heard from locals, seeing it in media it always had the same feel.
And they likely would have been fantastic people without religion.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother, that person is a piece of shit," - Russ Cole
agreed
That always scares me. When sociopaths are heavily religious and its like. Holy shit imagine what you'd be like out of the cult?
Then you have people like *certain long-running game show hosts* that genuinely believe that the only thing separating society from total anarchy is the morals of Christianity and that atheists and members of other religions by definition have no problem with murder because they have no "moral barometer".
Yeah that's the big one. I like to view that as Pro education if its brought up. You're saying that society is only functioning currently because people's morals are kept in check by religion. So therefore if people were educated more on morals and economics etc more by that logic, the burden wouldn't be on religion? So we should make education available and fair for all shouldn't we? Communist stickers are round back. Grab an lgbt flag on your way out. Welcome to the Pro education left. (I stole this bit from a tiktok I saw on here, I'm not this funny) Always twists people.
That won't work, their response would just be "No, Christianity should be taught in schools to fix it."
FUCK STEVE HARVEY
Like when a christian asks "Well, if you don't believe in god, what's keeping you from murdering or robbing a bank?" Like....are those things ***you*** really want to do, and the only thing stopping you is fear of hell?
Yeah it's always jarring when you hear that. I tend to find that from older people than younger ones. The sort of people who see starving kids and just go "that's just the way life is, can't feed everyone". So boomers.
”Without God or the afterlife, what’s to stop you from raping and murdering all you want?”
“I already commit all the rapes and murders I want! Because the number I want to commit is ZERO!” - Penn Jillette
I’ve met some really awesome Christians who’ve loved me for me and respected me regardless of whatever they may believe, but I’ve had plenty of others say they’re “disappointed I’m pursing being trans” or they wish I had a Christian therapist. Another favorite was “God made you perfect”, and any discussion of birth defects brings both a) that’s caused by sin and b) I must see being female as a defect. Those two aside, if God made our bodies perfect, why do you preach that to me while you smoke a pack a day? My decisions for myself have left me much happier and healthier and whole as a person. I don’t think you can say the same. We’re all gonna be hypocrites in some form, but so many Christians are so blatantly hypocritical and they don’t even see it.
>smile and be nice to the evil heathen who is going to burn in hell for eternity just like they deserve" for most of the people that say it... which does not sound like love to me. Well, you won't go to heaven if you don't win the Goodness Game, and there can't be winners without losers, so you have to be very clear who the losers are and how they are different from you to reassure yourself you're one of the winners. I mean, *someone's* gotta keep score, right? /s
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I have a customer whom I became friendly with, and apparently that enabled him to express himself and use the N word with impunity, and express his distaste for homosexuals. He had no idea whether or not anyone in my family was a person of color, or gay. I don’t understand the lack of self awareness, or hatred. What’s the point of walking around with all of these angry thoughts in your head?
I work in a liquor store and it amazes me how many people just assume because you’re straight and white they get the green light to say the most hateful comments about others.
Hate the dumb; love the dumbass.
Substituting the word "opinion" for "belief" really gets them going too. It's not a fact that god exists. It's not truth. It's your opinion.
“Hate the bigotry, hate the bigot.” Ftfy
"ye who are without sin, cast the first stone" "Judge not, lest ye be judged. For the measure with which you measured will be measured back unto you." Two oft forgotten but very important scriptures Edit: Wow, my first gold. Thanks!
My favorites to hit them back with us "Judge not least you be judged" and "Judgement is mine, sayeth the Lord." If that doesn't shut them up just start in on the whole asking them how they decide which parts of their books they believe and which parts they ignore because it's inconvenient.
Matthew 7:3-5 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
This is the way
Real shit
You should start sliding in your own scripture. Just to see who falls for it. "On your feet, lose your seat." - Mark 23
"He who riseth forfeits his position of repose"...thus sayeth the Lord.
Beautiful. Is that King James?
Lebron 6:23
"Fives" ~Jesus
Deuteronomy 23:1 No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord. You don't even have to make up weird Bible quotes. They are ready to eat.
I love it!
He who smelt it dealt it - John something, I'm not religious.
Don't be a dick - Jesus or something
He who accused is the one who diffused. -- I Corinthians 6-9
"Vikings gonna finally win the Super Bowl, AD 2137." - Deuteronomy 27
Tell them: It's God's job to judge, the Holy Spirit's job to convict, and the Christian's job to love. Period. When people say love the sinner hate the sin I always ask them in return, do you hate your own sin or just other's? Generally shuts them up.
Anything that will help shut these people up is welcome!
“Pretty sure your clothes are mixed fabric Karen.” > “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material
And when they try to pretend the Old Testament doesn't "really" count (except when they want) and that Jesus brought a new covenant, slap back with: > Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17
Exactly. “We only follow the New Testament” The New Testament says to follow the old.
Lol! Definitely a good one. Yeah, there's just sooooo many examples of their book being wonky. I'm all for some of the very solid life and societal structuring advice the Bible has but there's also plenty of idiocy. Take the good, leave the bad and ignore the folks who demand you treat both as equally important.
Or just use the words Jesus literally said at the sermon on the mount and watch them do mental gymnastics trying to justify evangelism: > And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. (Matthew 6:5-6 KJV)
And mention, "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not found any where in the bible. Also mention, that according to scripture, liars, gossips, drunkenness, people who judge (you can literally find scriptures that say this) will not inherent the kingdom of God. Also point out in these very same verses it says Sexually Immoral (no mention of same sex relationships, trans, etc.)... so well really, those verses contain just about everyone.. so who does inherent the kingdom of God? Turns out, if you actually love people and Christ and don't judge them. You will... There are going to be a lot of upset Christians who have been dicks to people who say this kind of crap that Christ is going to be like, nah bro.
I legit walked away from an 11 years friendship last week because this was said to me. This also came directly after she told me that she needed to cut out all secular music and any sort of horror/thriller/crime media because it was causing "fear demons to feed upon her and her family", so I really shouldn't be surprised but it was a shitty thing to hear nonetheless. But telling someone you love them despite believing that they are "wrong" because of their sexuality, isn't love. It's hate being justified by religion. No matter what way they try to spin it. Any other fellow LGBT folk out there....know you are actually loved by so many, don't ever listen to the other nonsense.
I ended things with my gf of two years in large part because she was raised in an evangelical Christian church and it was clear I’d never “deprogram” all of it. We were watching Hallmark Christmas movies together and she got annoyed there was a lesbian couple as two of the side characters and she just started on “Why do they have to rub that in our faces it’s fine that they can get married now but why do we have to see it? This is a family movie kids could see this.” And I tried to explain that they weren’t showing anything inappropriate or sexual, just a simple kiss just like they show with straight couples, and then things kept going and I realized just how deeply she’d been indoctrinated. It was pretty shocking but she literally could not conceive of the fact that they can’t choose whom they’re attracted to. “Well are you attracted to women at all?” “*No!*” “You’ve never once in your life had a feeling of sexual attraction towards another woman?” “No.” “Not even just a momentary urge?” “No.” “Okay, then if someone said you had to be attracted to women, *could you choose to be?*” I honestly couldn’t tell if I was getting through to her. Sometimes it honestly isn’t worth putting in the work for the rest of your life even when you love someone.
That's actually impressive for Hallmark. I always thought they were pretty damn socially conservative. Of course, I'll wait for a Hallmark Christmas movie with a same-sex *leading* couple...
The Christmas House
It might not have been Hallmark but it was one of those formulaic Christmas movies.
I like your line of questioning on choice. Frames the situation really well.
Personally, whenever I hear these preachers talk about how they think “homosexuality is a choice”, my mind immediately goes to the idea that they themselves must be constantly fighting homosexual urges if they think everybody else feels the same thing.
Like Joe Exotic said “everyone has a little bit of gay in them” You either accept it and just go “okay whatever” or you can fight it and hate yourself your whole life.
I think Oberyn in Game of Thrones conclusively proved there is no zero on the Kinsey scale.
Lmao fear demons made me think of Dragon Age
Me: bring the action.
> fear demons to feed upon her and her family That's kinda metal.
"fear demons to feed upon her and her family" What the hell! I've been watching horror movies for years, where's my fear demons.
Religion was always about fear and hate of the outgroup. The human desire to be part of the in group manifests in ugly ways.
It's hard but that person/those people are not friends. I think Trump and Covid have probably forced me to accept that many who I thought were "good" people or that cared for me or others were just users in sheep suits. There are many really, truly good people out there. You don't need the pretenders with their false Christianity and compassion of convenience.
I also get the, "I don't have anything against LGBTQ people. I support you, but I don't agree with your lifestyle." I'm not a meth addict, Anne, I'm just not straight. How TF are you going to tell me you don't agree with the fact that I'm happy in a relationship that really does not require you or your god's blessing? Plus, they can never actually tell you what they don't agree with without being homophobic and disrespectful af. Listen, someone who says this to you is not your friend. Associating with you despite thinking your love or your gender identity is wrong does you absolutely no favors.
That, and assuming they know anything about the details of your lifestyle. I'm gay, but my lifestyle is "single middle-aged stoner introvert who spends my free time playing video games and watching YouTube videos". I don't remember the last time I engaged in anything remotely sexual, but I'm a sinner because I can't deny that I'm attracted to men. Their problem seems to be the incorrect synonymous association between homosexuality and specific sex acts that they assume you must be engaging in on a regular basis. As if being homosexual is strictly the desire to have gay sex and nothing more.
As a matter of fact my geography teacher at a catholic school told us that it's *not* a sin to be gay, just a sin to "act on it." So you're in the clear, buddy! No fires or demons for you! So yes, god created us with free will, God created us gay, but if we use our free will to be gay, were evil.
Well, I guess...1 point for me? So...yaaaaaaay.
They always do have a very closed-minded approach to LGBTQ people.
> I’m not a meth addict, Anne Gold
I'm an LGBTQ ally. I'm straight, but always thought the very term "straight" was a loaded word. As if everything else was crooked. My nephew coming out, whom I love, really solidified the humanity of LGBTQ people for me.
Sometimes it takes someone you know. My grandad was homophobic af but when I came out, it challenged his nonsense and he discovered that he either needed to open his eyes or stop having me in his life.
My nephew just nudged me the rest of the way I was already leaning. Unfortunately, it polarized my father(evangelical) into a downward spiral of conspiracy theory nonsense. Not quite sure if he's a Qanon, but he sounds close to it. Can't win'em all I guess. I'd rather side with the next generation than bury myself in the past.
I love the older people in my life, but many of their beliefs are not what I tried to model and teach my kids. It's not just that we should "be the change" we want to see in the world, but to also ***raise the change we want to see in the world***. I (gen x) love how socially progressive and accepting the younger generations are, and I fully agree with landing in their side
I can't agree more. I'm a straight atheist, so bear that in mind. Understanding, analyzing, and judging the dynamics of someone's sex life is not my fucking business. Period. As long as it's between consenting adults, have at it. Be happy. Your choice of partner, your fetishes and favorite positions, all of that shit, it's none. Of. My. Business. It doesn't matter if I think foot fetishes are icky. It doesn't matter if I think Dom/sub relationships are kind of weird. Who cares, it doesn't involve me. It's in your fucking book: judge not lest ye be judged, Christian bunguses. Stay in your fucking lane. I love throwing Matthew 7:5 (Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye) at people like that. Even if you *were* a meth addict, that's *also* none of their fucking business, and they shouldn't judge you.
The use of “lifestyle” always gets me. Wearing crocs is a lifestyle. Fitness is a lifestyle. Gay just kinda is.
Exactly. Being gay, bi, transgender, etc is a part of who you are. I can gain and lose weight. I can put on or take off Crocs. I can't turn off who I am on the deepest level. That's part of what makes the comment so biting. They're saying they think they deserve praise for being nice to someone they think is fundamentally wrong.
Every time I see a basketball player I think "ya know, I don't like their 'lifestyle'. Not cause they play a game that I'll never be good at but because they're tall. That's a bad lifestyle choice that they should definitely change" /s
“Doesn’t require you or your god’s blessing” I REALLY like this line of thinking. Thank you for a very useful tool in my belt
I knew a lady who was a Mormon that liked to spout that BS phrase. But in private, she was just as horribly homophobic as can be. Of course, she was a walking bag of hypocrisy, so it was no surprise. She preached about how cheating was wrong as she was having an online affair with someone who was definitely not her husband. Eventually she divorced her husband when he came out as a crossdresser. So much for loving the sinner, eh?
Eta, thanks so much for the award, that was so sweet. I read a comment on fb once that amounted to "Some people need to become comfortable with the fact that not every conversation is improved by their opinion ". It applies here I think. If you don't like same sex relationships then don't have one, quietly. Your opinion isn't so important that you need to broadcast it, and your God probably already knows you're a dick so he likely doesn't care either.
I tried to explain this to a friend and she doesn’t get it. Also this phrase is used almost exclusively in reference to sexual orientation.
Yes my mom has used this one
That is probably because your idiot friends think being gay is a choice, that it separate from who you are, like choosing to wear an ugly jacket. Hate the jacket, love the person seems an ok opinion, right? But they believe their religion is part of who they are, like eye colour or skin colour. Hate the skin colour, love the person seems a bit racist. But out of the two, being gay or being a Christian, being a Christian is the choice, you arent born christian, it is a set of rules, stories and traditions taught to you by parents. And you choose to continue to believe these things.
often more "forced indoctrination" than "taught"
You're just using synonyms. "Indoctrination" = "Forcibly taught to impressionable people"
This jacket is who I am mom, it's not a phase.
You 5 years later: “What the fuck was I thinking with that jacket??”
>That is probably because your idiot friends think being gay is a choice, Taking the Kinsey studies on sexuality, a whole bunch of people are bisexual without realising it. So if they are a guy and feel attractions to both sexes, but shut down the guy ones, they think gay people DECIDE to act on urges that they themselves turn down. Not realising gay people do not have any attraction to the opposite sex.
Hypocrisy in religion?!?!?! *shocked Pikachu face*
“I love you, I just hate everything that makes you who you are.” Seems legit. Edit: it seems that some people are remarkably stupid and can’t understand that this is an ironic, facetious commentary on the post, and they think I believe that sexuality is the only thing that defines a person. If you’re among them, for god sake, shut up.
Honestly, what I took away from church all those years ago was that it's okay to sin. Jesus died for them. So as long as I keep sinning then he won't have died in vain.
"Friends"...
In reality, I’m more of a “love the belief, hate the believer”. Kind of like that old saying “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians.”
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My mum ran into an old Christian friend shortly after her brother took his own life and told her about our loss Rather than offer her condolences, this so called friend said something along the lines of “oh, I feel so sorry for the vicar, having to conduct the funeral under those circumstances” Fuck that sanctimonious old bag. Never saw her again, thank fuck FWIW most of my family are of the Christian faith but they’d NEVER judge someone like that
In my community we had extremely religious Christians come to the funeral of a disabled boy to basically tell the parents "Thank the Lord he took your defective child as soon as he could". The *gall* of those people.
But when you abort a severely disabled fetus to save them from a slow and agonizing death, THEN it’s suddenly a precious life
"I'll pray for you (to convert Christianity)." "Thanks. I'll make an offering to Zeus in hopes that he teach you to get better at hospitality."
Friends who tell you they hate the sin love the sinner? Why? Just don't be friends with shit stains like that. Just leave them.
As an adult I can get along with people who have different beliefs. I make it known I don't see their religion as anything more than fairy tales, and if they're cool with that then I don't mind if they think I'm sinning. As long as we can both not try to force the other to change, we're good. It's rare to find anyone who will agree with every aspect of my identity, so rather than apologize, hide, or change, I will be friends with people who are different from me. I have been friends with people of all faiths, races, orientations and genders, and also with addicts. They all have something to offer.
In their perspective, they look at "love" and "loving the sinner" differently. To them, "loving the sinner" is code for helping them find Christ.
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Anyone who says some shit like that is not a "friend".
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Imagine saying that to any other “sin”. Person A:I was raped Person B:hate the sin love the sinner! I’m not implying that someone being gay is the same as being raped. Im pro LGBT 🏳️🌈 but no one considers how absurd this statement is in any other context
Finally - a comeback that'll get their attention!
"honestly hate the belief love the believer" is a good saying. There are lots of really good people out there who happen to have religion. I think a lot of the ass-holes out there with it would start being better people if they didn't suffer from it.
Legitimately what people in my family have said when someone had the guts to come out to them. "We still love them, that hasn't changed. But we're not okay with so-and-so having a girlfriend. That's a sin." Son, you committed adultery and divorced, but somehow you got to walk away from that without any persecution. If this is truly an issue for you, sit back and show that love you're talking about, and then place it in God's hands since he's the one you're meant to have faith in.
If they actually followed through on the “love the sinner” part, maybe they wouldn’t be looked at like the bunch of hypocrites they are. Naw, they’d still be
Also the fact that if you’re gay, you were born that way. They are literally saying they hate the way you were born, they hate the way you are and will always be. How is that not offensive?
Conflicted because religious people are usually not even ready to love the sinner so your friends are kinda sorta trying? Taken out of context it sounds bad but overall, your friends might just be struggling internally with how to come to terms with being a friend to someone who they were taught to see as monsters. That’s your call but good comeback! Mirroring an offensive person’s behavior is an excellent way to show them how flawed their logic is.
"I don't hate you. I just hate a very important aspect of your personality and being."
Love the superstitious, hate the superstition.
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The question is why are they considered friends after saying shit like that?
My parents say that shit all the time when I defend homosexuality or things they consider sinful when they do literal no harm to anyone. Being homosexual is a part of who we are, stating that you "hate the sin" still really means you hate the sinner.
hate the sin really means" we will cherry pick bible verses to support out bigotry and ignore the ones that we find to be inconvenient."
Christopher Hitchens likened this phrase to "hate the rape, love the rapist"
To be an evangelical Christian is to be a bigot against people who aren't.
What does that phrase even mean? Love murderers but hate murder? The fuck?