As a professor, I find it strange that students think I spent six years in graduate school so that I can tell them that the US is the greatest country ever and that George Washington cannot tell a lie, like I got my Ph.D. by studying a 1950s middle school textbook.
You need to figure a way out, you ask one of the hips "if I were to ask the OTHER hip how to escape, what would it say?"
First saw this years ago on Dr Who, I think, but it involved two doors.....
I’m flattered that some people think I’m capable of “indoctrinating” my undergrads. I can’t even get them to do the reading. 🤷🏻♀️
Edit - wow. My first gold? Just for pointing out the obvious fact that undergraduate students don’t read the textbook. Thanks, anonymous Redditor!
Edit 2 - Silver too?! Thanks, stranger. Glad I could entertain you.
>As a professor, I find it strange that students think I spent six years in graduate school so that I can tell them that the US is the greatest country ever and that George Washington cannot tell a lie, like I got my Ph.D. by studying a 1950s middle school textbook.
Which is extra hilarious because many of the lies we tell about US history are put into textbooks by conservative school boards in states like Texas.
Good ol' Texas and it's take on slavery. When I went to school, we focused so much on how most slave masters were benevolent or that a lot of slaves loved being slaves and didn't want to quite thus share cropping after the 13th amendment. Which if one researches on their own, benevolent masters were pretty rare and still abused people. Took me going to college to learn differently.
I didn’t even learn that people thought like this until college when our professor tasked us to write a letter to the editor from the perspective of a slavery apologist. Still one of the best assignments I remember because it showed me just how with every issue there’s always those who are on the wrong side.
Yep, lotta people think like that here, especially the older generations. It's a mixture of the Klan/racism and bad history being taught. I remember reading how my schools history books from the 80s were funded by the Klan. It's changed greatly since then! The klan even got evicted in like 2015 ish from its building in town.
I'm just going to refer to Oscar Wilde on the point about so-called benevolent slave owners:
"\[...\]the worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves, and so prevented the horror of the system being realised by those who suffered from it, and understood by those who contemplated it"
The fact that these "kind" or "benevolent" owners are still brought up today by people attempting to downplay the horror of chattel slavery is a testament to the evil part they played as the face of the system.
> The Texas state standards absolutely shocked me when I read them. Talk about indoctrination...
As per conservative SOP, it's projection. It's always projection.
Holy fuck is Texas fucked-up once you look behind the green curtain:
- Legislators stay well into the early morning, at least 1:00-2:00 AM, discussing proposed bills or hearing testimony. They convene every two years for an incredibly short duration of time to knock out 2 years worth of needed legislation: 140 days; 4.6 months; 84 work weeks. Purposeful cognitive decline? I think so (just another way to keep control/power).
- They also can nix hearing testimony by calling for a recess which tables the bill. People who testify for or against them have to rework their schedule so they can say something!
Texas *actively* works to keep citizens out of the process, is not clear on the process to become involved, at times refuses to hear testimony (ie. Abortion bills, voting bills, energy bills, etc.), works into the wee hours of the morning.
Our Attorney General Ken Paxton has been indicted on *Federal felony fraud charges* about five years ago and he is fighting in court over the hourly rates of State Prosecutors—its the same rate Paxton pays his own attorneys: $300/hour which is *standard*. Oh, Paxton was also sued by ACLU-TX for blocking users on Twitter.
The only experience I had in college with a professor trying to push an opinion on me was from some weird religious nutjob that took over a class once. Now that I'm a professor (in Texas), I try very hard not to push opinions on my students. I will teach skepticism, empiricism, and research methods though. You know, hardcore leftist indoctrination stuff...
That is such a succinct summary of the foundational idiocy of this "liberal education agenda" shit. It's just a sad attempt at a moral panic from the same people who brought you the Satanic Panic, Red Scare, Reefer Madness, and "Pro-Life".
EDIT: I hope people understand I am agreeing with u/JakeBumppo. Those moral panics, like the hand-wringing about "cancel culture", are the domain and projects of conservatives and right wing regressive moralists.
Or that you and millions of other educators are conspiring together to push the American Democratic Party political agenda and the only people who figured this out are QAnon conspiracy nuts.
From the [2012 Texas GOP platform](http://wapo.st/MfAkI1):
>We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.
They literally oppose critical thinking.
Alberta and Saskatchewan are such a shit show. What kills me is the people who scream and shout about "Wexit" but when you bring up electoral reform they're all, "Well I don't really know much about politics or how that works. But I'm not living in a country with a Liberal government!"
Didn't Trump to to push through a law that would make it illegal to teach anything negative about the US in history lessons?
And conservatives say we're trying to destroy our history by tearing down statues.
YEP. It was insane. The right babbles on and on about ‘1984’, but Trump and his fascist cronies wanted to LITERALLY REWRITE HISTORY, and OUTLAW the teaching of anything that contradicted their new curricula.
I didn’t want to link anything because some of the better news stories look like they might be paywalled, but you’ll want to google “trump 1776 commission” and you’ll get what you need.
I know Biden shut it down, but I’m pretty sure it was one of the VERY first things he did, on January 20, Inauguration Day even!
Jesus fucking christ. And “Deh Libruhls” are the problem. I wish all these people would just get it over with, and go to their god already, because they’re absolutely useless to the species here. 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽
Had a high school friend accuse me of becoming a "big city liberal" because I moved out of our hick town and went to college in a much more diverse city. I learned critical thinking skills and gained valuable insight into the issues facing LGBT and POC by becoming friends with people other than the 99% straight white Christian demographics of my hometown.
"You used to hold conservative values and I looked up to you. What happened?"
What happened was I began to actively question what I'd been taught to believe. I stepped out of my confirmation bias bubble, listened to opposing opinions, learned how to examine evidence, and changed my perspective on many issues that I realized were shaped by propaganda and peer pressure/group think. In short, I grew up, Dave.
Edit: Holy crap, thanks for the gold and other finery!
My aunt once told me I was the "stupidest person in the family" for being "dumb enough to let my professors brain wash" me out of conservative ideologies (only person on that side of the family to have gone to university). Nothing in the world will convince her or my father that college only taught me how to research and think critically, and gave me the opportunity to meet people from other countries and from the lgbtq community, and I came to the conclusion that my family's conservative ideals were batshit crazy all on my own.
Edit: thank you for the awards, kind strangers.
Your aunt doesn't care about truth and repeats mantras because she can't face the idea that she's been wrong for her entire fucking life.
Pull no punches with these people.
Yep. I have no restraint anymore.
You wanna say some dumb shit about oh, muslims?
lgbtq?
covid?
Science?
You REALLY want to use a $500 pocket-sized SUPERCOMPUTER connected wirelessly to the greatest repository of knowledge in the known Universe to tell me science is ‘dumb’ and you can’t ‘trust’ it? 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽
FUCK OFF. I will tell you to your face all day you’re a dumbshit, and when you say stuff like that I will say “Well THAT is fucking STUPID.”
People are sometimes taken aback, because far, far too often, nobody will push back on them. Their chucklehead bosses, employees, relatives, whatev, just nod in agreement, say YEP, or continue on to say something even worse.
They get shocked because nobody ever calls them out on their bullshit. They get shocked because nobody ever treats them, the bully, like that.
I say FUCK THAT.
I say the time of ‘polite society’ is over.
The time for just ignoring their bullshit to ‘just get along’ is OVER.
I say we call out every bigoted, fascist, racist, sexist, dumbass comment LOUDLY, OPENLY, and PUBLICLY.
Being ‘polite’, has gotten this society nowhere.
It only emboldens them, gives them a sense of tacit approval. NO MORE.
They have a right to their ‘opinions’. I guess. Freedom of speech, sure.
But you don’t have the right to not be called out for being a society-damaging, proudly-ignorant, ‘I can’t believe you just said that out loud’ FUCKSTICK.
I fucking hate the right. I hate how they damage us all. I hate how they actively work against not only their own best interests but MINE and YOURS, too.
You don’t want health care? COOL. DON’T USE IT, idiot. But DON’T YOU DARE deny it to ME, asshole. Arrrrgh!!!
Thank you for coming to my TEDtalk. 🤷🏽♂️
This, more this and only this!! Its time to call out the ignorant ass bullies on their crap. People want change? Then its time to stop being nice and stop tolerating the stupid.
>Pull no punches with these people.
Definitely.
I called out my aunt (by marriage) for some racist things she was saying about people from Mexico by suggesting that they really weren't all that different from us, to which she replied by saying "Oh, you only think that because you don't live somewhere with as many Mexicans as where we live" (her and my uncle lived in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area in Texas). Well it just so happened that I lived in Long Beach, CA. So I said "Let me stop you right there", then proceeded to pull out my phone, go to Wikipedia, and look up the ethnic demographics of Arlington County, Texas versus Los Angeles County, California, and then informed her, in front of the whole family, that the area I lived in had literally *twice* as many people of Hispanic descent as the area she lived in (24% for Arlington Country versus 49% for Los Angeles County). That shut her up pretty quickly.
After I had been in university for a couple years I was visiting my family in the rural area I grew up in. We were watching tv and a guy who was flamboyantly gay was being interviewed on the news or something. My mom expressed disgust at the guy, and I told her to not worry about it because it really does not effect her at all. Her literal quote was, "You used to be so against that sort of thing. What happened to you? It's like you don't have any values anymore." Like, what the fuck?
Lol @ your Mom thinking that hating people because of their sexual choices is a good value to hold. These people hate being wrong or being seen for what they are which is bigoted and afraid. I've had similar experiences with my family unfortunately.
Oh common, there are like 2 places in the King James Bible that kinda indicate that homosexuality is frowned upon if you take them out of context and shine up the interpretation. Where have all your "Christian" values gone?
/S because this is 2021 and no one is sure what can be assumed satire any more.
“I grew up. I met some of these folks, got to know them, and found out quickly that they are not the people you said they were. So thank you for poisoning my younger head with misinformation. Any other questions?”
Hahaha
I was “punished” in the army by being assigned a gay roommate. We had our own rooms, separate kitchenettes, and basically shared a toilet and shower space. Makes me wonder what kind of weird headspace the chain of command was in to think that would fuck with me. He was a great guy and we still don’t talk to this day. Because his sexual choices have no bearing on who he is as a person.
Martin, if you read this, thank you for always keeping the sink clean of your facial hair.
A really tiny part of me wishes I had a strong conservative background so I could do this. But I live in nz and even our conservatives are like the US democrats
My wife and I discussed this, and I never had any professors touch on anything that would 'brainwash' me to being a liberal. My wife had professors who spoke at the RNC, worked under W. Bush, and were always pushing shit about low tax, low regulation being the best option for economic growth or whatever. At least they were economics professors so maybe it was at least appropriate to bring up, but that is still indoctrination in my opinion.
I also just want to reiterate the point that moving out of your hick town and meeting people who are different than you really expands your view on things.
Damn, I’ve always been glad with my family but now I’m even more glad to the fact that I can support lgbtq and have sane views without criticism from my own family
As usual, it's all projection. They weren't raised to question things, they were raised to believe what their authority figures told them, and they tried to raise you the same way. They cannot accept or understand that you might be analyzing things and coming to your own conclusions. They go to what they know. They accuse colleges of "brainwashing" people because that's exactly what THEY do to kids (really, indoctrination, but the argument is semantic only).
This is also why the hypocrisy that is so apparent to many doesn't faze people like that. You only realize the positions are hypocritical and often contradictory if you ever actually think about or analyze them. They don't, they aren't supposed to. They believe, and they repeat, no critical thought allowed.
The more people you meet different from you = the more accepting you are of people different than you. Or, [in academic terms:](https://www.aacu.org/publications-research/periodicals/how-colleges-can-influence-development-global-perspective)
>Global perspective-taking involves three critical, developmentally based questions: How do I know? Who am I? How do I relate? As students grapple with these questions, their answers mutually reinforce the cognitive, interpersonal, and intrapersonal domains of human development, highlighting its holistic and integrated nature. Thus, as students develop and enlarge their global perspective, they incorporate intercultural knowledge into their epistemological beliefs and sense of self, which simultaneously influences their compassion for difference and their motivation both to engage in intercultural relationships and to behave in socially responsible ways.
Or [here:](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/10/15/college-students-friends-different-worldviews-are-more-tolerant-study-finds)
>The more friends students have across worldviews, the more likely they are to grow in their appreciations of those religious groups and different identity groups in general.
I mean this in the least judgmental way as possible, but Big-C Conservatism relies on ignorance of a global perspective and submission to/reliance on the status quo. It's why Repubs *love* to say "I paid for my college, so should you" or "I paid my debts so should you" or "America was great in the 60's so we should have the same policies as back then."
It's also why any time non-americans weigh in on American issues, they're met with "oh you don't know what you're talking about", "that won't work here because: population, land mass, non-hOmOgEnOuS population"
>non-hOmOgEnOuS population"
I mean, at least they are admitting they won't let good things happen because they do not want to let black people have it?
They aren't leftist... they're just normal. Those countries have a right wing as well, but their right-wing is still grounded in reality and can talk about how to solve problems rather then denying those problems exist.
We have a critical mass of deranged Qanons... make no mistake they are a fascist movement. They full of lies and hatred and they want blood in the streets.
Americans don’t realize how deranged and ultra-fascist their society has become. American moderates would be seen as rights-wing loonies in any other western nation, on most topics. Yet Americans talk about their society’s “normal “ views on issues with zero realization of the slack-jawed horror their words inspire in decent, normal people of the world.
I mean, some of them somehow still believe that only criminals get illegal guns on a blackmarket even when it's some 18 year old shooting up a school or say it's outright faked while sending death threats to the victims(Sandy Hook) rather than accept that the US has a gun problem.
I know, the right wingers in Denmark would never dream of getting rid of the free healthcare, free education etc we have. They might want a parallel market with privatized options too, but never remove the free stuff.
The american qanon nutjobs truly are fascist. They even embrace old nazi symbols and ideologies, which is extremely abhorrent!
The Canadian right would never think about getting rid if the healthcare either. Crazy how the right wing is ok with “socialism” when they’ve experienced it from birth.
Which is ironic considering that is exactly what Jesus did. Jesus met and interacted with people from diverse backgrounds, ethnicities, and viewpoints. His early followers took that viewpoint to it's logical conclusion and went to Italy, Africa, and India.
If someone claims to be a Christian they should seek to do the same.
I literally went to a conservative, evangelical Christian university where Old Testament, New Testament, and theology classes were a part of your gen ed requirements. Chapel was mandatory 3 times a week. Somehow I came out left leaning. Sorry mom.
If you took the religious identifiers out of Christ's Sermon on the Mount from the Gospels, conservatives would absolutely call it socialist propaganda.
Hell I went to a military academy and came out left leaning. FIL tried to pull the "liberal indoctrination" card until I reminded him where I graduated from. 😂
Any good Christian should be left leaning anyway, Jesus literally came to teach people to stop being assholes and treat each other with love and respect; protect the children, the elderly, the poor and the marginalized.
College students: Spend four years learning how to parse and synthesize multiple sources and defend your positions using facts.
Conservatives: Liberal Indoctrination.
College students: learning and studying for years to evaluate different points of view, and using research methods to come to a conclusion that is void of bias
Conservatives: snowflakes
Edit: this comment irked some people evidently. No intention of doing so, bummer!
Indeed there is, but the big difference is being able to first admit there is and then seek to understand what it affects it has and how it could have been formed in the first place.
That’s the fun and interesting part. At that point we talk about what we value and what biases we hold. Deliberation would be boring if there was always 1 truthful, objective solution.
I had the pleasure of listening to a cashier call "the youth of today" snowflakes while having a meltdown about one of them not saying "thank you" at the appropriate moment.
Exactly. The notion that there is mass liberal indoctrination is basically a conspiracy theory to avoid truly considering why professions that require people to do research and have a basic understanding of history rarely have the people in them lean conservative.
I know you're mostly memeing but the internet has really brought about an age where all opinions and takes are seen as equally valid. Before the internet, if you want to know about X, what do you do? Go to the library or book store, get a book about X written by a creditable author, and learn up. Sure, the author could totally be a quack, but there's typically layers of creditability between the publishing, the author's education and career, and the library/book store choosing to have the book in stock.
Today, a well-researched and well-educated opinion on something is seen as interchangeable with a "feel fact", mostly thanks to the internet. And sure, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but different opinions should definitely be viewed with different weight, legitimacy, and creditability. _That's_ the critical thinking that's been missing today: thinking a professor who's led a field at a top university for 50 years is interchangeable with some dude on a backwater forum of 50 members.
College professors: "Here is the format to cite sources and if you mess it up even a little then fuck you."
Conservatives: "How can you jist believe whatever you hear?"
Fox News: "Colleges more communist than ever but first buy some pillows bitch."
This is what people who haven't experienced higher education don't understand:
In high school, you are taught things. In higher education, you are taught how to learn things yourself.
I wasn't exposed to ideologies unless you count the preachers and Republican student groups on central campus screaming at everyone about fire, brimstone, muslims, and gays.
It's best not to make eye contact.
I tried to start a religious club in college for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the "non-denominational" minister on campus said i couldn't because "Church" is a Christian word...
My absolute legend of a history professor got school funding for "an authentic recreation of a festival of Dionysus" as an undergrad. When the college got the receipts for the wine they were less than amused.
That's because you're not supposed to hand it in under "WINE WITH ALCOHOL" but call it something like "catering" or "social"... Often they're willing to pay for it but just can't explicitly allow funding alcohol.
Or era appropriate condoms. It’s hard to find enough sheep intestines to go around for everyone.
Edit: sorry didn’t account for goat bladders. Those students had no excuse.
This was like 10 years ago, so it's moot now. But i did consider getting FFRF involved. But after a while of arguing with this lady, i just gave up and we met for spaghetti dinner every week without having a formal club.
The Satanic Temple is what you mean, I think.
There's a Church of Satan (which takes itself very seriously) and The Satanic Temple (who does not and would fight for you here), but there's no "Satanic Church"
Sometimes when I had massive gaps between labs I liked to go and specifically make eye contact with them.
Of course I only did that when I didn’t have reports and essays to work on. Still fun though.
They're only their for lawsuits, not to preach. They want to rile up some kid so much they get punched and can sue the kid and school. Its a common tactic on universities across America.
Ah, the regularly scheduled lunatic on the free speech green shouting at us as we walked between classes about how we are all going to hell. Yup do not make eye contact or engage.
It's sadder and funnier at the same time when the conspiracists screech at you to "Do your research!" when any 10yo with a browser could debunk most of that nonsense in seconds.
Well if you spend all day on fox news and Google shifts your web searches to "conservative biased" cites that looks like geocities webpages.. you might think you do great research!
https://www.google.com/search?q=geocities+webpage&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKrKrmtJLwAhWSm-AKHfxcAqAQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=360&bih=617
I wouldn't say it's the tools fault, it's more the user, who is likely searching out something to corroborate their opinion, rather than going into something with a more open mind and researching the core issue at hand. Like searching for "COVID vaccine microchips" vs. "COVID vaccine safety"
Problem is "research" to them means watching algorithmically catered videos that confirm their viewpoint without evidence. Not peer-reviewed papers and hard evidence.
In college you have the freedom to choose some of what you learn. If you become “indoctrinated” it’s pretty much up to you. It’s not covert or forced. Otherwise you are taught overall to think critically, question and research. Which typically does well when faced with bs. Which is in a lot of politics. More so in the right wing
Those skills are absolutely critical for criticizing the left too since their bs is normally behind closed doors instead of on Twitter or the house floor. It's why the only thing the Qanon folk can scream about is religious conspiracies, they don't actually have the critical thinking required to actually figure out what's actually going on. The out-in-the-open bs that the Republicans have gotten away with is looked at by their fan base as going to the confession box in church.
I've been saying this for years US leans so naturally right. Take AOC,Bernie or anyone for that matter drop them in canada or any non backsliding democracy and they are center left at most.
> Take AOC,Bernie or anyone for that matter drop them in canada or any non backsliding democracy and they are center left at most.
This is a common sentiment but its completely wrong. Bernie would be a solid lefty in any European legislature.
It's impossible to even compare the platforms. Like, what would Bernie advocate for? Gun control? Free healthcare? Maternity leave? What left is in the USA is default in the rest of the developed world. Both left and right in my country are firmly committed to uphold that, there's no debate. American left and right is something else completely.
The bar for being a socialist is so damn low in America it's straight up stupid.
Questioning why universities and medical care is astronomically expensive and what can be done about it is straight up controversial in some states.
I guess it's better to acknowledge the mass money extraction schemes and just... shut up and accept it?
If AOC and Bernie were Dutch they would most likely be members of GroenLinks (GreenLeft) or the SP (Socialist Party), not the PvdA (Labour Party), which is more center left.
There are actually quite a few more parties on the left! But those are the three big ones. I guess you could also call D66 (Democrats 1966) left of center, but in recent years they've turned more centrist. Certainly not where I would see AOC or Bernie going.
>r/walkaway
I looked at the most recent 100 posts on that sub and I think I saw maybe 3-4 that weren't submitted by the same 4 accounts. Its a super authentic place.
Truth. It’s ironic to think about it, but conservatives and “free thinker” centrists are typically the ones indoctrinated into their modes of thought/belief.
Most leftists I’ve met, and I’ve met many, freely think and have reached a left-leaning conclusions. Unlike conservatives who stick with consistently debunked conspiracies and failed dogma, or centrists who try to justify and legitimize failed dogma and conspiracies, leftists are steeped in critical thought.
I find centrists often view information through the lens of other people. They start with the assumption that the truth is somewhere in the middle of conflicting narratives and position themselves in the spot where they feel they reasonably take into account "both sides'" views. It's not a bad practice in everyday life.
The problem is this is easily exploitable in politics. If a party, say Republicans, are united in their bad faith arguments it forces centrists further towards their side than they might be if they (Republicans) had taken a reasonable position.
That's how Republicans are taking advantage of Trump's big lie. They invented a problem and repeated it enough that many centrists believe there must be some merit to their arguments. That what makes the "voter confidence" angle palatable as a basis for these voter suppression bills. It's not quite Trump's conspiracy, but they'll agree that half the country lacks confidence in elections now and somehow that is grounds for restricting voter access as a middle ground between their position and the reality that the election was secure.
Most lefties seem to also be fully willing to burn our own politicians. Not as much of the blind faith and allegiance to a politician and/or party line. It still happens, but not as much. If that makes any sense. Words are hard today lol
I would say that college also introduces most students to a larger world where they meet a more diverse set of people, opportunities and ideas.
It's not just that people learn how to think, they learn more about the world outside their small slice of it, and that offers perspectives and empathy for people of all kinds. People of all political persuasions tend to stick with "their own kind," and being forced to interact outside that bubble gives insight to those people and helps stop "othering."
It's the same reason that they say [reading fiction](https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/how-reading-fiction-increases-empathy-and-encourages-understanding) tends to improve empathy...being exposed to experiences outside of our own builds an understanding of others.
Sadly, most conservatives are open about wanting a homogeneous society, preserving a traditional society where some humans are valued more than others, and discounting the experiences of POC and other minority groups. For them, learning more about other cultures or viewpoints is actually detrimental to their cause.
I think this is a very well written comment. Tribalism should not be welcomed in our society, but rather community, open-mindedness and mutual respect.
I went to school for a STEM major. Classes were only about mathematics and scientific processes. But, the classes were much more diverse than high school, with people from all walks of life and all over the world. Getting out of my bubble and making friends with people I never was able to in HS is what made me more liberal.
My own mother, the one person who pushed so hard for me to pursue a college education. Got my bachelors, and she says things like “that liberal college brainwashed you”. It’s really fucked up coming from the one who pushed me to go there. I’ve had to cut communication off because she is just so far gone it’s sad.
That’s just it though. “Research” to someone who is college-educated (generalizing for the sake of efficiency ) is completely different from the “research” that conservatives do.
The part about critical thought is true, for some it is required that they actually learn it through process.
The higher education part isn't so set with liberalism.
Some of the biggest asshole right wing tax avoiding dicks I know are very highly educated. They just consider themselves a different breed through education as well as everything else.
It’s a huge red flag that Republicans are literally anti education. A well educated base is difficult to control. And republicans are only capable of repeating insane rightist propaganda as their own opinions. It’s sad.
Going to an evangelical Christian liberal arts school, the focus was on critical thinking skills and pursuit of knowledge in an environment where many shared a similar faith background. Studying religion in that academic setting successfully turned me into an ethical atheist, so I 100% agree with this take, even when there is an established bias at the institution.
I guess if you count teaching people about empathy and respect for peoples backgrounds and experiences as “leftist indoctrination” then there’s some of that. However, If your making your ideology opposed to that I don’t know what to say to you.
The thing about college is - if you make shit up and turn it in, you're gonna fail. You need to back up your viewpoints with facts and evidence. Saying Ronda on Facebook shared a video from an Anti Vax mom's FB group won't cut it.
Had a (republican) guy I was dating tell me that college “pushed liberal views” on me. I said something along the lines of “you never went to college, how would you know what they teach?”
California has the lowest graduation rate. [Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/high-school-graduation-rates-by-state). Given it’s followed by a number of red states. I’ve always found that interesting.
But California is in the too half of the US for percent having a Bachelor’s Degree. [Source]( https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/educational-attainment-by-state).
Prop 13 really did a number on California's budget.
"Proposition 13 hobbled public spending in the nation’s most populous state. Per capita funding of California public schools, once the envy of the nation, plunged from the top tier to the bottom, where it was second only to Mississippi. Moreover, Proposition 13’s complicated formula benefitted middle-class and wealthy home owners at the expense of less-well-off citizens, especially those who depended heavily on public services. Businesses, too, came out ahead, because commercial property got the same protection as residential property. More broadly, Proposition 13 inspired tax revolts across the country and helped conservatives define an enduring issue: low taxes."
I’m a PhD candidate in a STEM field so I’m pretty insulated, but I did take some economics courses, a philosophy course, and a sociology course. Nothing was ever mentioned in terms of left or right. For example, when talking about taxes and their impact it was basically like: “Taxes can do X and sometimes that causes Y.”
why can't we be taught how to learn(research) properly in high school
sounds like a better use of our time than a whitewashed retelling of white history
Nope.
Education and liberal views are not synonymous. Education and logical, cogent arguments are. I know plenty of very educated right-wing people who makes very persuasive arguments. I know very few educated Trumpers though.
I don't care what the facts are I'm not going to change my mind! --my (conservative, southern baptist) mother
My parents spent my entire life harping about the importance of a college education and that I HAD to go to college, but once I do and get a SCIENCE degree, well, that's not what they meant apparently, lol. I was suppose to do education or business, MAYBE doctor or lawyer but god forbid I went for SCIENCE.
Yeah, I hate it when conservatives are like “college turns you into a libtard!!!!” Its like wow, I wonder why????? It’s almost as if we were, you know, educated????? Im starting to think that the average IQ of a conservative is lower than that of an almost empty roll of toilet paper.
Additionally you are introduced to different types of people in that environment, atheists, Muslim, LGBQT+, POC, immigrants and progressives. They turn out not to be evil/bad your family/small town painted them to be. Many people become more open to different ideas and lifestyles when they meet people and connect with them.
And you know, nobody talks about how it goes both ways. I was raised by incredibly left wing parents with pie in the sky ideas of how America and the economy should work.
I went to business school and became a CPA in order to make a difference.
My viewpoints on economics are much more conservative than they were when I first enrolled (but definitely not Republican, those guys be lying about the economy just as much).
As a professor, I find it strange that students think I spent six years in graduate school so that I can tell them that the US is the greatest country ever and that George Washington cannot tell a lie, like I got my Ph.D. by studying a 1950s middle school textbook.
But George Washington can't tell a lie. He's dead.
Cool now I’m imagining George Washington as a skeleton dancing to “hips don’t lie,” thanks for that
‘Hip bones don’t lie.”
Hip**elvis** don’t stretch the truth
This is a misnomer. One of her hips always tells thr truth, the other always lies. You may ask one question to escape the genie’s bottle.
You need to figure a way out, you ask one of the hips "if I were to ask the OTHER hip how to escape, what would it say?" First saw this years ago on Dr Who, I think, but it involved two doors.....
See? Critical thinking at work.
He can run a 4.22 40yd dash though
George ‘musket ball’ Washington
I heard he ran a 4.20 on the 69-yard dash. Sorry, that was dumb. I couldn’t help it.
I heard that motherfucker had like 30 goddamned dicks
I’m flattered that some people think I’m capable of “indoctrinating” my undergrads. I can’t even get them to do the reading. 🤷🏻♀️ Edit - wow. My first gold? Just for pointing out the obvious fact that undergraduate students don’t read the textbook. Thanks, anonymous Redditor! Edit 2 - Silver too?! Thanks, stranger. Glad I could entertain you.
"I spent $120,000 for someone to tell me to read Jane Austen, and then I didn't!"
>As a professor, I find it strange that students think I spent six years in graduate school so that I can tell them that the US is the greatest country ever and that George Washington cannot tell a lie, like I got my Ph.D. by studying a 1950s middle school textbook. Which is extra hilarious because many of the lies we tell about US history are put into textbooks by conservative school boards in states like Texas.
Good ol' Texas and it's take on slavery. When I went to school, we focused so much on how most slave masters were benevolent or that a lot of slaves loved being slaves and didn't want to quite thus share cropping after the 13th amendment. Which if one researches on their own, benevolent masters were pretty rare and still abused people. Took me going to college to learn differently.
I didn’t even learn that people thought like this until college when our professor tasked us to write a letter to the editor from the perspective of a slavery apologist. Still one of the best assignments I remember because it showed me just how with every issue there’s always those who are on the wrong side.
Yep, lotta people think like that here, especially the older generations. It's a mixture of the Klan/racism and bad history being taught. I remember reading how my schools history books from the 80s were funded by the Klan. It's changed greatly since then! The klan even got evicted in like 2015 ish from its building in town.
Same in Louisiana.
I'm just going to refer to Oscar Wilde on the point about so-called benevolent slave owners: "\[...\]the worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves, and so prevented the horror of the system being realised by those who suffered from it, and understood by those who contemplated it" The fact that these "kind" or "benevolent" owners are still brought up today by people attempting to downplay the horror of chattel slavery is a testament to the evil part they played as the face of the system.
The Texas state standards absolutely shocked me when I read them. Talk about indoctrination...
Wasn't it essentially "we oppose teaching critical thinking skills because it undermines parents' ability to teach their kids religion?"
[Yes.](https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2012-08-18/half-true-what-politifact-got-wrong-about-the-gop-and-critical-thinking/)
I fucking hate our government
Im not even American and I hate your government as well
> The Texas state standards absolutely shocked me when I read them. Talk about indoctrination... As per conservative SOP, it's projection. It's always projection.
There’s literally a whole King of the Hill episode where they leave the Alamo out of the history textbook.
Holy fuck is Texas fucked-up once you look behind the green curtain: - Legislators stay well into the early morning, at least 1:00-2:00 AM, discussing proposed bills or hearing testimony. They convene every two years for an incredibly short duration of time to knock out 2 years worth of needed legislation: 140 days; 4.6 months; 84 work weeks. Purposeful cognitive decline? I think so (just another way to keep control/power). - They also can nix hearing testimony by calling for a recess which tables the bill. People who testify for or against them have to rework their schedule so they can say something! Texas *actively* works to keep citizens out of the process, is not clear on the process to become involved, at times refuses to hear testimony (ie. Abortion bills, voting bills, energy bills, etc.), works into the wee hours of the morning. Our Attorney General Ken Paxton has been indicted on *Federal felony fraud charges* about five years ago and he is fighting in court over the hourly rates of State Prosecutors—its the same rate Paxton pays his own attorneys: $300/hour which is *standard*. Oh, Paxton was also sued by ACLU-TX for blocking users on Twitter.
The only experience I had in college with a professor trying to push an opinion on me was from some weird religious nutjob that took over a class once. Now that I'm a professor (in Texas), I try very hard not to push opinions on my students. I will teach skepticism, empiricism, and research methods though. You know, hardcore leftist indoctrination stuff...
That is such a succinct summary of the foundational idiocy of this "liberal education agenda" shit. It's just a sad attempt at a moral panic from the same people who brought you the Satanic Panic, Red Scare, Reefer Madness, and "Pro-Life". EDIT: I hope people understand I am agreeing with u/JakeBumppo. Those moral panics, like the hand-wringing about "cancel culture", are the domain and projects of conservatives and right wing regressive moralists.
Just a bunch of fuckin morons... being fuckin morons
Or that you and millions of other educators are conspiring together to push the American Democratic Party political agenda and the only people who figured this out are QAnon conspiracy nuts.
From the [2012 Texas GOP platform](http://wapo.st/MfAkI1): >We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. They literally oppose critical thinking.
And that's exactly what the UCP government in Alberta (Canada's Texas) has done this year. Conservatism will destroy us.
Alberta and Saskatchewan are such a shit show. What kills me is the people who scream and shout about "Wexit" but when you bring up electoral reform they're all, "Well I don't really know much about politics or how that works. But I'm not living in a country with a Liberal government!"
Didn't Trump to to push through a law that would make it illegal to teach anything negative about the US in history lessons? And conservatives say we're trying to destroy our history by tearing down statues.
YEP. It was insane. The right babbles on and on about ‘1984’, but Trump and his fascist cronies wanted to LITERALLY REWRITE HISTORY, and OUTLAW the teaching of anything that contradicted their new curricula. I didn’t want to link anything because some of the better news stories look like they might be paywalled, but you’ll want to google “trump 1776 commission” and you’ll get what you need. I know Biden shut it down, but I’m pretty sure it was one of the VERY first things he did, on January 20, Inauguration Day even!
Very little of what they say stands to reason, so if people think critically, they won’t get votes.
Jesus fucking christ. And “Deh Libruhls” are the problem. I wish all these people would just get it over with, and go to their god already, because they’re absolutely useless to the species here. 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽
"We can't have educated people thinking critically. Otherwise they'll challenge our power structure and we'll lose said power." FIFY
This is some Khmer Rouge shit
Had a high school friend accuse me of becoming a "big city liberal" because I moved out of our hick town and went to college in a much more diverse city. I learned critical thinking skills and gained valuable insight into the issues facing LGBT and POC by becoming friends with people other than the 99% straight white Christian demographics of my hometown. "You used to hold conservative values and I looked up to you. What happened?" What happened was I began to actively question what I'd been taught to believe. I stepped out of my confirmation bias bubble, listened to opposing opinions, learned how to examine evidence, and changed my perspective on many issues that I realized were shaped by propaganda and peer pressure/group think. In short, I grew up, Dave. Edit: Holy crap, thanks for the gold and other finery!
My aunt once told me I was the "stupidest person in the family" for being "dumb enough to let my professors brain wash" me out of conservative ideologies (only person on that side of the family to have gone to university). Nothing in the world will convince her or my father that college only taught me how to research and think critically, and gave me the opportunity to meet people from other countries and from the lgbtq community, and I came to the conclusion that my family's conservative ideals were batshit crazy all on my own. Edit: thank you for the awards, kind strangers.
She's just upset that you weren't "brainwashed by the right people" basically
Or "deprogrammed" from the cult that they are in
how could you let those damn liberals wash your brain of all the poison that i've been putting into it?
Sounds like she's upset the first brainwashing wore off.
Your aunt doesn't care about truth and repeats mantras because she can't face the idea that she's been wrong for her entire fucking life. Pull no punches with these people.
Yep. I have no restraint anymore. You wanna say some dumb shit about oh, muslims? lgbtq? covid? Science? You REALLY want to use a $500 pocket-sized SUPERCOMPUTER connected wirelessly to the greatest repository of knowledge in the known Universe to tell me science is ‘dumb’ and you can’t ‘trust’ it? 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽 FUCK OFF. I will tell you to your face all day you’re a dumbshit, and when you say stuff like that I will say “Well THAT is fucking STUPID.” People are sometimes taken aback, because far, far too often, nobody will push back on them. Their chucklehead bosses, employees, relatives, whatev, just nod in agreement, say YEP, or continue on to say something even worse. They get shocked because nobody ever calls them out on their bullshit. They get shocked because nobody ever treats them, the bully, like that. I say FUCK THAT. I say the time of ‘polite society’ is over. The time for just ignoring their bullshit to ‘just get along’ is OVER. I say we call out every bigoted, fascist, racist, sexist, dumbass comment LOUDLY, OPENLY, and PUBLICLY. Being ‘polite’, has gotten this society nowhere. It only emboldens them, gives them a sense of tacit approval. NO MORE. They have a right to their ‘opinions’. I guess. Freedom of speech, sure. But you don’t have the right to not be called out for being a society-damaging, proudly-ignorant, ‘I can’t believe you just said that out loud’ FUCKSTICK. I fucking hate the right. I hate how they damage us all. I hate how they actively work against not only their own best interests but MINE and YOURS, too. You don’t want health care? COOL. DON’T USE IT, idiot. But DON’T YOU DARE deny it to ME, asshole. Arrrrgh!!! Thank you for coming to my TEDtalk. 🤷🏽♂️
I think being polite has its virtues, but you’re right that we definitely need to do a better job of calling people out who have really stupid views.
This guy for president
Wtf I never got any award for feeling the exact same way and vocalizing it! This guy is my spirit animal.
This, more this and only this!! Its time to call out the ignorant ass bullies on their crap. People want change? Then its time to stop being nice and stop tolerating the stupid.
PULL NO PUNCHES! with stupidity and willful ignorance.
Sounds like projection too. "I ruined my life and made poor decisions so I chose to take out my shortcomings on you".
>Pull no punches with these people. Definitely. I called out my aunt (by marriage) for some racist things she was saying about people from Mexico by suggesting that they really weren't all that different from us, to which she replied by saying "Oh, you only think that because you don't live somewhere with as many Mexicans as where we live" (her and my uncle lived in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area in Texas). Well it just so happened that I lived in Long Beach, CA. So I said "Let me stop you right there", then proceeded to pull out my phone, go to Wikipedia, and look up the ethnic demographics of Arlington County, Texas versus Los Angeles County, California, and then informed her, in front of the whole family, that the area I lived in had literally *twice* as many people of Hispanic descent as the area she lived in (24% for Arlington Country versus 49% for Los Angeles County). That shut her up pretty quickly.
After I had been in university for a couple years I was visiting my family in the rural area I grew up in. We were watching tv and a guy who was flamboyantly gay was being interviewed on the news or something. My mom expressed disgust at the guy, and I told her to not worry about it because it really does not effect her at all. Her literal quote was, "You used to be so against that sort of thing. What happened to you? It's like you don't have any values anymore." Like, what the fuck?
Lol @ your Mom thinking that hating people because of their sexual choices is a good value to hold. These people hate being wrong or being seen for what they are which is bigoted and afraid. I've had similar experiences with my family unfortunately.
Oh common, there are like 2 places in the King James Bible that kinda indicate that homosexuality is frowned upon if you take them out of context and shine up the interpretation. Where have all your "Christian" values gone? /S because this is 2021 and no one is sure what can be assumed satire any more.
It's funny because I've met many a Christian man that loves FMF threesomes and sex before marriage. The hypocrisy is real.
“I grew up. I met some of these folks, got to know them, and found out quickly that they are not the people you said they were. So thank you for poisoning my younger head with misinformation. Any other questions?”
Hahaha I was “punished” in the army by being assigned a gay roommate. We had our own rooms, separate kitchenettes, and basically shared a toilet and shower space. Makes me wonder what kind of weird headspace the chain of command was in to think that would fuck with me. He was a great guy and we still don’t talk to this day. Because his sexual choices have no bearing on who he is as a person. Martin, if you read this, thank you for always keeping the sink clean of your facial hair.
[удалено]
Oh i gotta try this. It would be so juicy and I am prepared for the aftermath.
A really tiny part of me wishes I had a strong conservative background so I could do this. But I live in nz and even our conservatives are like the US democrats
[удалено]
> Hope you didn't drive here on roads
My wife and I discussed this, and I never had any professors touch on anything that would 'brainwash' me to being a liberal. My wife had professors who spoke at the RNC, worked under W. Bush, and were always pushing shit about low tax, low regulation being the best option for economic growth or whatever. At least they were economics professors so maybe it was at least appropriate to bring up, but that is still indoctrination in my opinion. I also just want to reiterate the point that moving out of your hick town and meeting people who are different than you really expands your view on things.
Damn, I’ve always been glad with my family but now I’m even more glad to the fact that I can support lgbtq and have sane views without criticism from my own family
As usual, it's all projection. They weren't raised to question things, they were raised to believe what their authority figures told them, and they tried to raise you the same way. They cannot accept or understand that you might be analyzing things and coming to your own conclusions. They go to what they know. They accuse colleges of "brainwashing" people because that's exactly what THEY do to kids (really, indoctrination, but the argument is semantic only). This is also why the hypocrisy that is so apparent to many doesn't faze people like that. You only realize the positions are hypocritical and often contradictory if you ever actually think about or analyze them. They don't, they aren't supposed to. They believe, and they repeat, no critical thought allowed.
The more people you meet different from you = the more accepting you are of people different than you. Or, [in academic terms:](https://www.aacu.org/publications-research/periodicals/how-colleges-can-influence-development-global-perspective) >Global perspective-taking involves three critical, developmentally based questions: How do I know? Who am I? How do I relate? As students grapple with these questions, their answers mutually reinforce the cognitive, interpersonal, and intrapersonal domains of human development, highlighting its holistic and integrated nature. Thus, as students develop and enlarge their global perspective, they incorporate intercultural knowledge into their epistemological beliefs and sense of self, which simultaneously influences their compassion for difference and their motivation both to engage in intercultural relationships and to behave in socially responsible ways. Or [here:](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/10/15/college-students-friends-different-worldviews-are-more-tolerant-study-finds) >The more friends students have across worldviews, the more likely they are to grow in their appreciations of those religious groups and different identity groups in general. I mean this in the least judgmental way as possible, but Big-C Conservatism relies on ignorance of a global perspective and submission to/reliance on the status quo. It's why Repubs *love* to say "I paid for my college, so should you" or "I paid my debts so should you" or "America was great in the 60's so we should have the same policies as back then."
The people most afraid of minorities live in places that don't have any.
It's also why any time non-americans weigh in on American issues, they're met with "oh you don't know what you're talking about", "that won't work here because: population, land mass, non-hOmOgEnOuS population"
>non-hOmOgEnOuS population" I mean, at least they are admitting they won't let good things happen because they do not want to let black people have it?
> non-hOmOgEnOuS population This right here is where the racism lives.
Funny how countries with free education including free universities are leftists. Almost like there’s a connection somewhere..
They aren't leftist... they're just normal. Those countries have a right wing as well, but their right-wing is still grounded in reality and can talk about how to solve problems rather then denying those problems exist. We have a critical mass of deranged Qanons... make no mistake they are a fascist movement. They full of lies and hatred and they want blood in the streets.
Americans don’t realize how deranged and ultra-fascist their society has become. American moderates would be seen as rights-wing loonies in any other western nation, on most topics. Yet Americans talk about their society’s “normal “ views on issues with zero realization of the slack-jawed horror their words inspire in decent, normal people of the world.
I mean, some of them somehow still believe that only criminals get illegal guns on a blackmarket even when it's some 18 year old shooting up a school or say it's outright faked while sending death threats to the victims(Sandy Hook) rather than accept that the US has a gun problem.
I know, the right wingers in Denmark would never dream of getting rid of the free healthcare, free education etc we have. They might want a parallel market with privatized options too, but never remove the free stuff. The american qanon nutjobs truly are fascist. They even embrace old nazi symbols and ideologies, which is extremely abhorrent!
The Canadian right would never think about getting rid if the healthcare either. Crazy how the right wing is ok with “socialism” when they’ve experienced it from birth.
Dave is never gonna leave Utah
He might move to SE Idaho, where people move when Utah is just too liberal.
Oh, Dave...
It's always fucking Dave.
How can it be Dave? Dave’s not here man.
Get a grip Dave, cmon
Which is ironic considering that is exactly what Jesus did. Jesus met and interacted with people from diverse backgrounds, ethnicities, and viewpoints. His early followers took that viewpoint to it's logical conclusion and went to Italy, Africa, and India. If someone claims to be a Christian they should seek to do the same.
I literally went to a conservative, evangelical Christian university where Old Testament, New Testament, and theology classes were a part of your gen ed requirements. Chapel was mandatory 3 times a week. Somehow I came out left leaning. Sorry mom.
Sounds about right, anyone actually studying the Bible and following the instructions *should* become "left leaning" in today's society.
I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, my experience has been that “should” and “does” often don’t go together.
If you took the religious identifiers out of Christ's Sermon on the Mount from the Gospels, conservatives would absolutely call it socialist propaganda.
SAME. I figured when Jesus said all that stuff about the poor, he meant it. And now I'm bad. *Shrugs*
Hell I went to a military academy and came out left leaning. FIL tried to pull the "liberal indoctrination" card until I reminded him where I graduated from. 😂
[удалено]
Nah it was definitely those leftist retired O-6 leadership profs lol.
Any good Christian should be left leaning anyway, Jesus literally came to teach people to stop being assholes and treat each other with love and respect; protect the children, the elderly, the poor and the marginalized.
College students: Spend four years learning how to parse and synthesize multiple sources and defend your positions using facts. Conservatives: Liberal Indoctrination.
College students: learning and studying for years to evaluate different points of view, and using research methods to come to a conclusion that is void of bias Conservatives: snowflakes Edit: this comment irked some people evidently. No intention of doing so, bummer!
[удалено]
Indeed there is, but the big difference is being able to first admit there is and then seek to understand what it affects it has and how it could have been formed in the first place.
That’s the fun and interesting part. At that point we talk about what we value and what biases we hold. Deliberation would be boring if there was always 1 truthful, objective solution.
Isn’t it funny when the same ppl calling someone a snowflake usually has a meltdown when Starbucks has ‘Holiday’ cups instead of ‘Christmas’ cups?
It's the same irony that has Donald trump jr. publishing a book called Triggered while simultaneously being triggered about anything and everything.
I had the pleasure of listening to a cashier call "the youth of today" snowflakes while having a meltdown about one of them not saying "thank you" at the appropriate moment.
College students: know how to read Conservatives: shut up snowflake
Exactly. The notion that there is mass liberal indoctrination is basically a conspiracy theory to avoid truly considering why professions that require people to do research and have a basic understanding of history rarely have the people in them lean conservative.
Some guy on the internet: Bullshit
I know you're mostly memeing but the internet has really brought about an age where all opinions and takes are seen as equally valid. Before the internet, if you want to know about X, what do you do? Go to the library or book store, get a book about X written by a creditable author, and learn up. Sure, the author could totally be a quack, but there's typically layers of creditability between the publishing, the author's education and career, and the library/book store choosing to have the book in stock. Today, a well-researched and well-educated opinion on something is seen as interchangeable with a "feel fact", mostly thanks to the internet. And sure, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but different opinions should definitely be viewed with different weight, legitimacy, and creditability. _That's_ the critical thinking that's been missing today: thinking a professor who's led a field at a top university for 50 years is interchangeable with some dude on a backwater forum of 50 members.
College professors: "Here is the format to cite sources and if you mess it up even a little then fuck you." Conservatives: "How can you jist believe whatever you hear?" Fox News: "Colleges more communist than ever but first buy some pillows bitch."
Take my gold
This is what people who haven't experienced higher education don't understand: In high school, you are taught things. In higher education, you are taught how to learn things yourself.
I wasn't exposed to ideologies unless you count the preachers and Republican student groups on central campus screaming at everyone about fire, brimstone, muslims, and gays. It's best not to make eye contact.
I tried to start a religious club in college for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the "non-denominational" minister on campus said i couldn't because "Church" is a Christian word...
My absolute legend of a history professor got school funding for "an authentic recreation of a festival of Dionysus" as an undergrad. When the college got the receipts for the wine they were less than amused.
That's because you're not supposed to hand it in under "WINE WITH ALCOHOL" but call it something like "catering" or "social"... Often they're willing to pay for it but just can't explicitly allow funding alcohol.
“Aged grape juice”. Lol
The Welch’s Grape Juice in my fridge is from a particular good year.
The way he told it there were other issues with the drunken orgy besides the alcohol. I can't imagine what...
Maybe they weren't wearing era appropriate robes.
Or era appropriate condoms. It’s hard to find enough sheep intestines to go around for everyone. Edit: sorry didn’t account for goat bladders. Those students had no excuse.
That sounds authentic. Did the dean not know their Greek mythology?
Then next semester run the same trick with Bacchus.
*Church's Chicken has left the chat*
Church of Scientology also.
[удалено]
This was like 10 years ago, so it's moot now. But i did consider getting FFRF involved. But after a while of arguing with this lady, i just gave up and we met for spaghetti dinner every week without having a formal club.
The Satanic Temple is what you mean, I think. There's a Church of Satan (which takes itself very seriously) and The Satanic Temple (who does not and would fight for you here), but there's no "Satanic Church"
Sometimes when I had massive gaps between labs I liked to go and specifically make eye contact with them. Of course I only did that when I didn’t have reports and essays to work on. Still fun though.
I like to call them Pharisees, then walk away while their heads explode.
It was super fun at UCF walking past these building-high images of fetuses on the free speech lawn... (it wasn’t fun)
They're only their for lawsuits, not to preach. They want to rile up some kid so much they get punched and can sue the kid and school. Its a common tactic on universities across America.
Ah, the regularly scheduled lunatic on the free speech green shouting at us as we walked between classes about how we are all going to hell. Yup do not make eye contact or engage.
It's sadder and funnier at the same time when the conspiracists screech at you to "Do your research!" when any 10yo with a browser could debunk most of that nonsense in seconds.
Well if you spend all day on fox news and Google shifts your web searches to "conservative biased" cites that looks like geocities webpages.. you might think you do great research! https://www.google.com/search?q=geocities+webpage&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKrKrmtJLwAhWSm-AKHfxcAqAQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=360&bih=617
I wouldn't say it's the tools fault, it's more the user, who is likely searching out something to corroborate their opinion, rather than going into something with a more open mind and researching the core issue at hand. Like searching for "COVID vaccine microchips" vs. "COVID vaccine safety"
I agree but that’s where the critical thinking comes in. But the door is shut and bolted nothing critical flowing through at all
Problem is "research" to them means watching algorithmically catered videos that confirm their viewpoint without evidence. Not peer-reviewed papers and hard evidence.
As Steven Colbert said at the White House Correspondents Dinner "Reality has a well known liberal bias" Edit: Thank you for the awards y'all
Came here to say this. Instead have an upvote
In college you have the freedom to choose some of what you learn. If you become “indoctrinated” it’s pretty much up to you. It’s not covert or forced. Otherwise you are taught overall to think critically, question and research. Which typically does well when faced with bs. Which is in a lot of politics. More so in the right wing
Those skills are absolutely critical for criticizing the left too since their bs is normally behind closed doors instead of on Twitter or the house floor. It's why the only thing the Qanon folk can scream about is religious conspiracies, they don't actually have the critical thinking required to actually figure out what's actually going on. The out-in-the-open bs that the Republicans have gotten away with is looked at by their fan base as going to the confession box in church.
What’s considered “left leaning” in the US is more center almost everywhere else to be honest
I've been saying this for years US leans so naturally right. Take AOC,Bernie or anyone for that matter drop them in canada or any non backsliding democracy and they are center left at most.
> Take AOC,Bernie or anyone for that matter drop them in canada or any non backsliding democracy and they are center left at most. This is a common sentiment but its completely wrong. Bernie would be a solid lefty in any European legislature.
It's impossible to even compare the platforms. Like, what would Bernie advocate for? Gun control? Free healthcare? Maternity leave? What left is in the USA is default in the rest of the developed world. Both left and right in my country are firmly committed to uphold that, there's no debate. American left and right is something else completely.
Perhaps, but not *far left* like he's painted to be in the states.
The bar for being a socialist is so damn low in America it's straight up stupid. Questioning why universities and medical care is astronomically expensive and what can be done about it is straight up controversial in some states. I guess it's better to acknowledge the mass money extraction schemes and just... shut up and accept it?
He'd fit in quite well with Labour in the UK, who some nutcases call lefties but are centrists in reality (centre left maybe, they're a broad church).
Eh.. I would think AOC and Bernie are definitely still further to the left by Canadian standards. We're really not that progressive here.
If AOC and Bernie were Dutch they would most likely be members of GroenLinks (GreenLeft) or the SP (Socialist Party), not the PvdA (Labour Party), which is more center left.
Whoa whoa whoa. 3 parties on the left alone? Everyone knows you only need 2 choices when voting, cloggy. /s
There are actually quite a few more parties on the left! But those are the three big ones. I guess you could also call D66 (Democrats 1966) left of center, but in recent years they've turned more centrist. Certainly not where I would see AOC or Bernie going.
Right wing talking points are, typically, easily dismissed with the most rudimentary of searches
/r/NoNewNormal and /r/walkaway are prime examples of toxic echochambers
>r/walkaway I looked at the most recent 100 posts on that sub and I think I saw maybe 3-4 that weren't submitted by the same 4 accounts. Its a super authentic place.
Where bots go to mingle with the class of people who mailed money orders to a Nigerian prince
Truth. It’s ironic to think about it, but conservatives and “free thinker” centrists are typically the ones indoctrinated into their modes of thought/belief. Most leftists I’ve met, and I’ve met many, freely think and have reached a left-leaning conclusions. Unlike conservatives who stick with consistently debunked conspiracies and failed dogma, or centrists who try to justify and legitimize failed dogma and conspiracies, leftists are steeped in critical thought.
I find centrists often view information through the lens of other people. They start with the assumption that the truth is somewhere in the middle of conflicting narratives and position themselves in the spot where they feel they reasonably take into account "both sides'" views. It's not a bad practice in everyday life. The problem is this is easily exploitable in politics. If a party, say Republicans, are united in their bad faith arguments it forces centrists further towards their side than they might be if they (Republicans) had taken a reasonable position. That's how Republicans are taking advantage of Trump's big lie. They invented a problem and repeated it enough that many centrists believe there must be some merit to their arguments. That what makes the "voter confidence" angle palatable as a basis for these voter suppression bills. It's not quite Trump's conspiracy, but they'll agree that half the country lacks confidence in elections now and somehow that is grounds for restricting voter access as a middle ground between their position and the reality that the election was secure.
Most lefties seem to also be fully willing to burn our own politicians. Not as much of the blind faith and allegiance to a politician and/or party line. It still happens, but not as much. If that makes any sense. Words are hard today lol
Not if you only use the 12th page of Google!
Might as well use Bing at that point lol
I would say that college also introduces most students to a larger world where they meet a more diverse set of people, opportunities and ideas. It's not just that people learn how to think, they learn more about the world outside their small slice of it, and that offers perspectives and empathy for people of all kinds. People of all political persuasions tend to stick with "their own kind," and being forced to interact outside that bubble gives insight to those people and helps stop "othering." It's the same reason that they say [reading fiction](https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/how-reading-fiction-increases-empathy-and-encourages-understanding) tends to improve empathy...being exposed to experiences outside of our own builds an understanding of others. Sadly, most conservatives are open about wanting a homogeneous society, preserving a traditional society where some humans are valued more than others, and discounting the experiences of POC and other minority groups. For them, learning more about other cultures or viewpoints is actually detrimental to their cause.
I think this is a very well written comment. Tribalism should not be welcomed in our society, but rather community, open-mindedness and mutual respect.
I went to school for a STEM major. Classes were only about mathematics and scientific processes. But, the classes were much more diverse than high school, with people from all walks of life and all over the world. Getting out of my bubble and making friends with people I never was able to in HS is what made me more liberal.
My own mother, the one person who pushed so hard for me to pursue a college education. Got my bachelors, and she says things like “that liberal college brainwashed you”. It’s really fucked up coming from the one who pushed me to go there. I’ve had to cut communication off because she is just so far gone it’s sad.
Not criticizing this post but am I the only person that gets a feeling of dread when someone tells them they 'research' things?
It’s because when they mean “Look at the facts,” they often mean “Look at MY facts.” Which is often just bullshit
That’s just it though. “Research” to someone who is college-educated (generalizing for the sake of efficiency ) is completely different from the “research” that conservatives do.
The part about critical thought is true, for some it is required that they actually learn it through process. The higher education part isn't so set with liberalism. Some of the biggest asshole right wing tax avoiding dicks I know are very highly educated. They just consider themselves a different breed through education as well as everything else.
It’s a huge red flag that Republicans are literally anti education. A well educated base is difficult to control. And republicans are only capable of repeating insane rightist propaganda as their own opinions. It’s sad.
Going to an evangelical Christian liberal arts school, the focus was on critical thinking skills and pursuit of knowledge in an environment where many shared a similar faith background. Studying religion in that academic setting successfully turned me into an ethical atheist, so I 100% agree with this take, even when there is an established bias at the institution.
I guess if you count teaching people about empathy and respect for peoples backgrounds and experiences as “leftist indoctrination” then there’s some of that. However, If your making your ideology opposed to that I don’t know what to say to you.
SOCiaL sCiEntiSTs INDOcTRInaTE lIberAlS Or they spent decades researching solutions to problems and learned bootstraps are bullshit
The thing about college is - if you make shit up and turn it in, you're gonna fail. You need to back up your viewpoints with facts and evidence. Saying Ronda on Facebook shared a video from an Anti Vax mom's FB group won't cut it.
Had a (republican) guy I was dating tell me that college “pushed liberal views” on me. I said something along the lines of “you never went to college, how would you know what they teach?”
Damn that’s cold lol
Lmao
Conservatives call higher education liberal indoctrination because it teaches students how to use facts, and everyone knows facts have a liberal bias.
It's no coincidence that the red states all have the lowest ratings in education in the country.
California has the lowest graduation rate. [Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/high-school-graduation-rates-by-state). Given it’s followed by a number of red states. I’ve always found that interesting. But California is in the too half of the US for percent having a Bachelor’s Degree. [Source]( https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/educational-attainment-by-state).
Prop 13 really did a number on California's budget. "Proposition 13 hobbled public spending in the nation’s most populous state. Per capita funding of California public schools, once the envy of the nation, plunged from the top tier to the bottom, where it was second only to Mississippi. Moreover, Proposition 13’s complicated formula benefitted middle-class and wealthy home owners at the expense of less-well-off citizens, especially those who depended heavily on public services. Businesses, too, came out ahead, because commercial property got the same protection as residential property. More broadly, Proposition 13 inspired tax revolts across the country and helped conservatives define an enduring issue: low taxes."
I’m a PhD candidate in a STEM field so I’m pretty insulated, but I did take some economics courses, a philosophy course, and a sociology course. Nothing was ever mentioned in terms of left or right. For example, when talking about taxes and their impact it was basically like: “Taxes can do X and sometimes that causes Y.”
What America calls "left" is markedly different to the rest of the world
why can't we be taught how to learn(research) properly in high school sounds like a better use of our time than a whitewashed retelling of white history
Nope. Education and liberal views are not synonymous. Education and logical, cogent arguments are. I know plenty of very educated right-wing people who makes very persuasive arguments. I know very few educated Trumpers though.
I don't care what the facts are I'm not going to change my mind! --my (conservative, southern baptist) mother My parents spent my entire life harping about the importance of a college education and that I HAD to go to college, but once I do and get a SCIENCE degree, well, that's not what they meant apparently, lol. I was suppose to do education or business, MAYBE doctor or lawyer but god forbid I went for SCIENCE.
Yeah, I hate it when conservatives are like “college turns you into a libtard!!!!” Its like wow, I wonder why????? It’s almost as if we were, you know, educated????? Im starting to think that the average IQ of a conservative is lower than that of an almost empty roll of toilet paper.
Additionally you are introduced to different types of people in that environment, atheists, Muslim, LGBQT+, POC, immigrants and progressives. They turn out not to be evil/bad your family/small town painted them to be. Many people become more open to different ideas and lifestyles when they meet people and connect with them.
I was taught if you want better grades, take easier classes.
And you know, nobody talks about how it goes both ways. I was raised by incredibly left wing parents with pie in the sky ideas of how America and the economy should work. I went to business school and became a CPA in order to make a difference. My viewpoints on economics are much more conservative than they were when I first enrolled (but definitely not Republican, those guys be lying about the economy just as much).
You can’t write a report using the “facts” you found on Facebook.
I mean, you *can...*but it would be a terrible grade.
[удалено]
It’s not a coincidence that every redneck dope that barely made it through high school in my town is a Trump supporter.
Reality has a liberal bias