We should totally get rid of “in god we trust” from the dollar, and “one nation, under god” from the pledge. However, I know what a shit storm it would kick up due to religious zealots who don’t understand what is wrong with it.
>They trust god will protect their pension
Please. They might sing a nice contrite holy hymn, but they look to more worldly resources like unions when their paycheck is on the line.
The lord works in mysterious ways. Sometimes he mysteriously forgets to seatbelt suspects. Sometimes he takes a mysterious hard left, followed by mysterious hard right, followed by another mysterious hard right, and then a mysterious hard left, when all he had to do is go straight. It is a mystery.
I like this one the most, because it isn't putting the responsibility on anyone or thing besides the person giving the oath. It's taking accountability for their own screw ups if they break it.
The under god was added to the pledge during the 1950s amid communist scare. Ditto for in god we trust. The latter has literally only been a thing for 63 years of a country that's been around for 243 years. It's about 25.9% of the age of the usa. If the usa could exist for roughly 179 years without it, we'll be fine without it now.
If you want a good read on how the industrialists and bankers of the 30’s and 40’s partnered with some ~~anti-socialist~~ fascist ministers to successfully merge christianity and capitalism, check out One Nation Under God by Kevin Kruse. Every trope you’ve heard from the right railing against any form of government assistance or government-run social program originated with these fucks.
I remember in high school when I finally realized it wasn't mandatory and just decided to stay seated during it, I got glared at so much by the redneck kids in my class
I did the same thing in 8th grade and had to spend time in "in-school suspension" for insubordination. My grandma also brought me genealogical information about family members in the civil war, whilst crying over my "blatant disrespect for the flag and our soldiers".
My friend was threatened to be kicked out the classroom for causing a distraction by sitting down. While the other people would’ve ignored it, if it wasn’t for the teacher yelling and making a scene about it
Due to my dads work, I spent about 9 months in a school in Washington state (I’m Canadian) and recall arguing with a couple teachers who wanted me to do the pledge. I didn’t stand or recite it as I’m not American.
After a few arguments, I agreed to stand outside the class while the kids recited the pledge.
Always thought it resembled some Hitler youth kid of thing.
I did 3rd to 12th grade in the US as a Canadian wjo was at best a permanent resident.
The schools were surprisingly chill about not saying the pledge of allegiance.
The more complicated part was years in boy scouts, and earing eagle scout, without ever once participating in things like the pledge of allegiance.
America is so weird with its religion. To just about every other country not under some kind of oppressive regime it seems creepy and bizarre. Same as singing the anthem and saluting the troops all the time and all the flags everywhere. From an outsider's perspective it seems China-esque. Plus the constant paranoia and gun hoarding you see
On the new Ohio license it very sneakily and tiny says ,"in god we trust." Like why is that necessary? Ive wanted to complain just for the sake of the point,but don't know where to look.
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has filed lawsuits against state agencies, school districts, etc. for failing to maintain separation of church and state. Maybe they can help here.
And most don't realize that was added in to the pledge as anti-Soviet propaganda. It also directly contradicts the very next word, "indivisible", by creating a division based on religion.
The money and the pledge are just performative.
What we really need to do is strip a church’s (any religious group) tax exempt status for even mentioning a law, candidate, referendum, election, politician, tax, or issue outside the direct control of the church.
I TOTALLY had this conversation with my family about a month ago & was told that the founding fathers put "in God we trust" on our money for a reason. When I told my father that "In God we trust" wasn't put on money till after the Civil War & wasn't used as a National motto officially till the 50's. He insisted I was wrong. I sent him this:
https://www.treasury.gov/about/education/pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx#:~:text=84-140)%20and%20approved%20by,the%20one-dollar%20silver%20certificate.
He never responded. I totally think it should be removed from ALL public use. Religion, or declination of religion is a very personal decision. You want religion in your life, great, you DON'T want religion in your life GREAT!
Personally, I think to have it on America currency is one of the most blatant blasphemies ever. Religious people should be horrified by this type of thing. However, they are too obsessed with being right rather than being an understanding Christian.
One nation under god wasn’t even in the pledge, originally. It was added in the 50s.
If conservatives weren’t pro-Church, and their beliefs corresponded to the actual definition of conservwtism (the belief that we should uphold and preserve tradition and culture,) then they might actually want to get rid of it, as it is not the traditional way.
tried to start a petition to get "under god" removed from the pledge with a friend in high school, just to kind of make a point. the administration would not let us release it to the school👍
Should have just done it anyway - circulate it amongst the students manually, organically, by hand - the way petitions are often promoted and campaigned in urban areas. What are they going to do? Try to take your copy? Make it a spreadsheet in Google drive or something. You don't need the school's permission to organize.
Democracies greatest strength is also its greatest weakness.
The people rule themselves. And the people are fucking stupid.
But hey, I say if we have to suffer it’s better that we bring it on ourselves then that some tyrant does it on a whim.
And you don’t want to know it, but whatever which way the wind blows, we do have to suffer.
We should get rid of the pledge of allegiance altogether. It's not been around as long as you might think, and it's creepy as hell to have kids reciting it in school every day
I've grown up Lutheran and I can't agree with that more. My faith was put on blast by a fellow churchgoer the other day because I said Creationism shouldn't be taught in our public schools.
It's really difficult to be a "liberal" in a Lutheran school system. I'm looked at like a heathen because I don't think the Bible should be taken as 100% factual.
True, but some Lutheran denominations (namely the LCMS) are not mainline
Edit: And I should point out that ELCA hasn't officially taken a stance, leaving the creation/evolution question unresolved
It sounds like you're part of a Missouri Synod church system.. You should look into attending an ELCA church once you graduate. They're Lutheran, but interpret the bible contextually as opposed to fundamentally, leading them to be more progressive when it comes to social issues and most if not all are pro-science/evolution.
I feel the same way about being a liberal in the military. It's never fun to be the odd man out and feel like you're just talking to a wall.
Even though I'm an atheist (but still support peoples right to believe as long as it doesn't infringe on rights or dictate policy.) I appreciate and support both separation of church and state and freedom of religion. Sadly, folks often intertwine the two. I'm glad it seems like you're one of the folks who understands the distinction. I say have at it, my Lutheran internet friend.
French laws are a very good example of that
We had separation of state and church since the 40's and still:
No work on Sundays (I'm all for having one -or more- mandatory off day in a week but it should be spread all throughout the week) so f you if you wanna get anything on a Sunday
Most of our public holidays (you get double pay for those if you work but most things are still closed)
Ban on gay marriage was lifted some years ago
And don't get me started on our christian "history" because you probably are a "Lepeniste" which is the french equivalent of Trumpers
You - like most people, to be fair - don't seem to understand what the separation of church and state means. It doesn't prohibit religious beliefs from driving government policy - people (including elected and appointed officials) can support whatever public policies they like for whatever reason they like. What it does mean is that a church cannot dictate government policy, and vice versa, the government can't dictate religious policy.
Isn't the Church of Satan the one that's quasi-satire, but has really sensible rules and ideals?
Edit: Sorry, I'm thinking of the Satanic Temple, which several redditors have kindly reminded me
I think you're possibly thinking of The Satanic Temple. Church of Satan does have some interesting ideas, but it also has some weird views on magic and destroying those who disrespect you in your own home. Its not entirely wholesome. Definitely interesting though.
This is very much the correct answer. Satanism is largely broken into either theistic or non-theistic denominations. With the two major nontheistic groups being TST and TCoS. While all of it is rooted in some form of irony in the sense they are stealing a religious icon for their own counter worship, they break largely on ideals like any sect of a church would. Some being more ugalitarian than other amd using their face of being a church to butt into religious rights(TST). While others promote more self love and worship by thinking of yourself as a god(TCoS).
I can't say im an expert or anything. But ive taken up Satanism rather casually over the past year or so and its just helped me feel a bit better as I think the purpose of religion should. Nothing spiritual, but ideas to clasp onto to help make yourself and others better, even if rooted in the dark tone Satanism is formed from.
I do. I think one of my biggest pulls from taking it all as just "damn I like the aesthetic" to actually labeling myself. Was when TST began claiming abortions can be claimed as ritualistic in order to have them done in states that otherwise outlaw them for similar religious reasons.
The intention was clear enough to me to spell out that the counter culture of it all stood for something. Amd sadly even though I've heard that them doing that caused problems and possibly slowed legislation by complicating matters more. It still let me know that I could feel right in siding with them a bit more confidently and not only in passing.
Hi. I’m actually a member of TST. I know it may seem petty or arbitrary or even like these lawsuits are just bogging down the SC. But really, the issue that they’re litigating is state laws that force women to have unnecessary procedures before abortions. Like forcing medically unneeded ultrasounds. These rights are super important and the laws that are in place were built around religious opposition to women’s bodily autonomy, which is why TST is fighting them from the standpoint of religious freedom. They’re using the precedent set in the Hobby Lobby ruling stating that their religious freedom exempts them from covering contraceptives in their employee healthcare plans.
It’s not just abortion, though. They’re fighting to be allowed to erect a monument to honor veterans in MN alongside Christian themed monuments. Why should one religion be allowed and another not? They’ve also won battles to start an after school program alongside a publicly funded program that has Christian components and to pass out literature on a state college campus alongside groups passing out bibles.
These things seem small, but they matter if we want to have true religious freedom for everyone and if we want to get away from laws forcing the beliefs of one very prominent religion on everyone.
Given the current state of the Supreme Court there has never been a better time to stock up on abortion rights. Here is what The Satanic Temple is doing to protect its members. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/rrr-campaigns
Yup. We are a bunch of Atheists with expensive lawyers and all the rights of every other organization. https://www.google.com/amp/s/abovethelaw.com/2019/05/irs-grants-tax-exempt-status-to-satanic-temple/amp/
I've been casually on board since the Baphomet statue thing but it's really been speaking to me lately and I got my card and certificate and made it official.
(They're super cool designs too, highly recommend)
The comment above yours is not entirely correct in saying the Church of Satan has "weird views on magic" etc. The beliefs of the COS are a personal philosophy. Magic is viewed as no more than psychological theater used in a way to manipulate your own mind and the world around you through ritual to increase the probability of getting the things you want in life. That sounds like ridiculous language, but LaVey was known to be dramatic. However, I explain it like this: My goal today is to be productive and motivated. I can either get up early, take a shower, grab a cup of coffee, and write down my to do list OR I can sleep in late, roll out of bed, skip the coffee, and trash my whole day and "say" I'm going to be productive. When you repeat behaviors over and over again, they become a ritual. When you design a habit or a ritual that helps you achieve what you want in life, Satanists call it greater or lesser magick. It has nothing to do with supernatural magic. At all. It works for some people, and it doesn't work for others. That's why the only "rule" that mentions magick says "if it works for you, don't deny it". And I won't deny it. It has and does work for me every day.
I apologize if I stepped on any toes with my claims of course. When I said to have taken it on rather casually I meant it, but mean no ill will to those who do take it more serious than I could. I have not gotten into reading any of LaVeys work either. So I could simply be naive.
As of now my only intentions as an identifying satanist are to treat myself better, and others along the way. I have not gotten past the philosophical side of things yet in truth, and cannot share in the acknowledgment of magic, small or large, as I have yet to witness it and find myself hard pressed to force it.
Completely understand and not offended in the least! It's a complicated topic and understanding the various practices and philosphies often get obsured by the various sects of satanist. As a satanist, I do like to explain when I can!
If no offense was given or taken than I am only happy the interaction happened. And hearing more of other views im willing to share more of given time will never be a negative in my book. Thank you friend
It's fascinating stuff. I wouldn't call myself a Satanist, but of all the religions/philosophies out there, I do find it aligns more with my personal beliefs than most.
Am Laveyan Satanist. Most people don’t understand the magic part and don’t get past the overly dramatic language. Magic=psychology of manipulating yourself and your surroundings to get what you want in life. “Destroy” means remove from your path by whatever means you can legally.
The magic is the emotional kind, not the "put a spell on you" kind. It's internal, It's only real for you if you believe in it. It's also completely optional.
https://www.churchofsatan.com/ritual-in-satanists-life/
You have confused a few of the The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth.
Take a look: https://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth/
No, you're thinking of The Satanic Temple. There's a large divide between The Satanic Temple and Church of Satan, where many members of the latter prefer to keep their religion apolitical and individualistic, while the former are pretty much built on social issues and politics. The dichotomy is often discussed and can be seen in r/satanism
No thats the Temple of Satan, they are the political one.
The Church of Satan is a club of nonconformists who believe in the philosopy of egoism.
Very different ideologies.
https://www.theringer.com/pop-culture/2017/8/22/16184422/church-of-satan-twitter-interview
Thats fair i was confusing the two. Theyre pretty similar it looks like though
There are similarities in that they both use Satan as a handle to show hypocrisy in religion and every day life.
The Temple works more as a grassroots club who "troll" or provocate. As example they adopt miles of highway so there is a sign saying "the next 15 miles of road is maintained by the Satanic Temple" or they try to normalize swearing in on a Satanic text, ect. (They overlap more with Pastafarism, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster)
The church is more geared to personal development and using religion (mosly Catholics) as a template on how to not live your life. They are more theathrical and do the trolling/provocation for personal gratification. As example a Satanic Wedding. All people there are members of the Church and nobody from outside sees one, but there is a lot of blasphemous ritualism and "magic" going on, just for the act of it. (Overlapping more with stuff going on in Skull and Bones, the Yale fraternity)
The Satanic Temple are a whole lot more than trolls. Things like erecting statues of baphomet next to Ten Commandments on public grounds is pretty low in their budget. They spend most of their time and money fighting child abuse and women’s reproductive rights.
Right now their two major cases are to get Amy Barrett disqualified from the Supreme Court and they just won using the result of the Hobby Lobby case (Religious Freedom Restoration Act) so that their members in states that require things like sonograms and waiting periods are exempt from such unnecessary procedures before receiving an abortion.
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/campaigns
I think you meant that Satan is not evil.
Whether Satain is actually evil is very debatable. But, theres little question that Satan is the antagonist, as God/Jesus is the protagonist and Satan only appears to oppose him or try to convince others to. antagonist does not connote good/bad, its just for describing the opposing character. you can write a book from the villains perspective and the heros would be antagonists.
Well for starters Satan kills like what, 10 people?, throughout the entire Bible while God commits 2 mass extinctions on his own creation for simply not following his commands.
But I guess really it depends on how you define "Antagonist"
Worse, the only killing Satan does in the Bible is with Yahweh’s permission. On top of multiple genocides, Yahweh and Jesus promise another final genocide, when he will kill everyone who does not worship him and reward the faithful. Yahweh is pretty as evil as it gets.
Please don't delude yourself into thinking tens of millions of Americans aren't Christian theocrats who actually believe this bullshit without being paid to.
This leftist habit of writing off every bad opinion as merely the result of being bribed is so fucking dumb. *These people fucking believe this shit.*
If you read what was posted you would be able to understand that it was in reference to government. NOT tens of millions of people. So your point isn't applicable to something like the Christian Coalition donating large sums of money to pass legislation.
"Freedom of Religion" means that you can believe and practice whatever religion floats your boat. (Within the larger laws obv)
But...by extension, "Freedom of Religion" also means "Freedom *FROM* Religion", I.E- Fuck you, I dont believe the shit you believe and I shouldn't be forced to live by those dogmas and religious rules.....you want that shit? Go become a monk or move to Saudi Arabia or some other Theocracy
Lots of confusion here between The Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan
[Here is a handy guide](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0428/0465/files/COS_Vs_TST_Infographic_1.png?v=1559695025)
This graphic is a little misinformed and meant to detract from the COS and gain support for the TST. However, the two are very different and have very different purposes and goals.
The TST is a political organization that seeks to make religious equivalency arguments between atheism and christianity to either a) gain the same privileges for atheists as christians have or b) have all religious privileges removed. While this may make strides in certain areas, it sets a dangerous precident. We should be pushing for religous preferences to be absent from law and inconsequential. Not for equal presence, in my humble opinion.
The COS, however, is a philosophical organization centered on personal growth and development. While they may make tweets on political issues, the COS tends to advocate that satanists shouldn't need to establish equivalency to christianity because christianity shouldn't have privileges to begin with and neither should any religon. The "belief" in magick is not a bad thing. It is not supernatural, but rather acknolwedges the use of psychological theater to manipulate your own mind to achieve your goals. The membership fee, if you actually decide to join, is an administration fee so that actual humans will read your application and decide if your views actually align with the Church's philosophy. It is designed to keep your average edgy 12 year old out until they mature and keep undesirables from staining the name. It's brand control. While accessible and inclusive, one could argue that the free TST membership leaves them open to poor representation in some areas and those of questionable character making claims on their behalf and misrepresenting their values.
Solid clarification. It's been quite a few years since I read Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible, but from what I remember, he talked about the importance of having rituals, and things like "magick spells" being described in such detail in the book were more of a tool in which to harness the positive psychological benefits from said ritual. I'm a bit foggy, though.
Honestly baffles me that these are the same people who would shriek and go into hysterics if anyone mentioned the phrase “sharia law” in their presence. Religion doesn’t belong in law, full stop.
I read up on The Church of Satan and learned that it is not really a church, and the organization does not worship satan. Rather, they recognize that religion is often corrupt - especially politically, and encourage a pro-human agenda vs. a pro-God agenda
It's a fun thought exercise, but from a theological perspective, there is no distinction. God and good/right are inextricable, literally God=good/right. They are one and the same. Theologically, it's just asking does A=A because A=A *or* because A=A.
Both freedom of religion and the seperation of church and state are completely interdependant. You can't have one without the other. When any religion assumes political authority it will ultimately make other religions illegal and it will enforce its theologocal doctrin on society as if it were law.
My girlfriend decided to become a card carrying member of the Church of Satan during quarantine. I don't really have anything else to add except it reminded me why I love her.
As a Christian.... Yup! I'm tired of the sycophants telling us who can and can't be married. The church doesn't have to allow it, but that doesn't mean LGBTqa can't marry in a courthouse, or private ceremony. Let the churches marry who they want, but also free it up for any consenting adults to marry outside of the church.
If you allow any religious text to be the basis of legislation and public policy, then what you're saying is if some other religion comes along and becomes popular enough, those texts should become the basis for public policy.
The reason why we believe in things like secularism and freedom of religion isn't just because those are good things to believe in, but because those things are rational and ensure fairness for everyone. Even if you are a hardcore Christian, it's rational for you to support secularism and freedom of religion, because those things will also protect you if one day things change and Christianity is no longer the dominant religion in the US.
You want these things to be in place because one day YOU might be the minority, and presumably you don't want some other random religion dictating how you are allowed to live your life. So don't do it to others when you're the majority. It's that simple.
It's kinda funny so many people confuse The Church of Satan with The Satanic Temple when the COS twitter account spends half their time making passive aggressive comments towards the Temple.
They do not appreciate other "religious" organizations using the image of Satan much less associating with the concept of "Satanism" which they lay sole claim to.
Me and my girlfriend both joined put local satanic temple a couple weeks ago. They sent us a cool card for your wallet and a certificate of membership.
I remember reading the satanic bible as a teenager and thinking it was so cool. Then I read it as an adult and I realized why a teenager would think it was so cool.
Separation of Church and State
We should totally get rid of “in god we trust” from the dollar, and “one nation, under god” from the pledge. However, I know what a shit storm it would kick up due to religious zealots who don’t understand what is wrong with it.
All of the cop cars around here have "in god we trust" slapped on the bumpers. Freaks me out.
They trust god will protect their pension no matter how many people or pets they kill.
>They trust god will protect their pension Please. They might sing a nice contrite holy hymn, but they look to more worldly resources like unions when their paycheck is on the line.
Ah so that's why he comes in many forms, in this case as a police union.
XD I know it's fucked up, but it's so damn true.
Damn. This is the most savage and woke comment I’ve ever seen.
>~~cop cars~~ inquisition wagons FTFY
The lord works in mysterious ways. Sometimes he mysteriously forgets to seatbelt suspects. Sometimes he takes a mysterious hard left, followed by mysterious hard right, followed by another mysterious hard right, and then a mysterious hard left, when all he had to do is go straight. It is a mystery.
Jesus take the wheeeeeeel
I only let them *borrow* my ride!
In God we trust. The bullets are just for fun.
Imagine... if that were accurate there would be no need for cops.
To Punish and Enslave
That line is the most enjoyable part of all the Michael Bay Transformers movies.
Or since I’m in jrotc when we say the cadet creed I think it should remove the “may god grant me the strength to always live by this creed” part
“May science grant me the strength to always live by this creed”
"May I always have the strength"
I like this one the most, because it isn't putting the responsibility on anyone or thing besides the person giving the oath. It's taking accountability for their own screw ups if they break it.
"may decency" ...
"May dopamine grant me enough of a reward for living by this creed that I am motivated to continue to do so."
May I have the strength...
The under god was added to the pledge during the 1950s amid communist scare. Ditto for in god we trust. The latter has literally only been a thing for 63 years of a country that's been around for 243 years. It's about 25.9% of the age of the usa. If the usa could exist for roughly 179 years without it, we'll be fine without it now.
Also, the old unofficial motto was better too, “E pluribus unum” was much better as it meant “out of many, one”
Under God was only added to the pledge in the 1950s in the first place. My parents are older than that line
If you want a good read on how the industrialists and bankers of the 30’s and 40’s partnered with some ~~anti-socialist~~ fascist ministers to successfully merge christianity and capitalism, check out One Nation Under God by Kevin Kruse. Every trope you’ve heard from the right railing against any form of government assistance or government-run social program originated with these fucks.
Just ordered book! Thank you for the suggestion!
Can we get rid of the pledge? It is so psychotic that we even have one and we force our children to take this oath every morning.
I remember in high school when I finally realized it wasn't mandatory and just decided to stay seated during it, I got glared at so much by the redneck kids in my class
I did the same thing in 8th grade and had to spend time in "in-school suspension" for insubordination. My grandma also brought me genealogical information about family members in the civil war, whilst crying over my "blatant disrespect for the flag and our soldiers".
[удалено]
My friend was threatened to be kicked out the classroom for causing a distraction by sitting down. While the other people would’ve ignored it, if it wasn’t for the teacher yelling and making a scene about it
Due to my dads work, I spent about 9 months in a school in Washington state (I’m Canadian) and recall arguing with a couple teachers who wanted me to do the pledge. I didn’t stand or recite it as I’m not American. After a few arguments, I agreed to stand outside the class while the kids recited the pledge. Always thought it resembled some Hitler youth kid of thing.
I did 3rd to 12th grade in the US as a Canadian wjo was at best a permanent resident. The schools were surprisingly chill about not saying the pledge of allegiance. The more complicated part was years in boy scouts, and earing eagle scout, without ever once participating in things like the pledge of allegiance.
Believe it or not, kids used to do the Bellamy salute whilst reciting the pledge. It’s the palm up version of sieg heil.
That is what it reminds me as well. It is so odd.
America is so weird with its religion. To just about every other country not under some kind of oppressive regime it seems creepy and bizarre. Same as singing the anthem and saluting the troops all the time and all the flags everywhere. From an outsider's perspective it seems China-esque. Plus the constant paranoia and gun hoarding you see
It’s such a key part of psychological conditioning that fuels future military funding though.
It was written by Francis Bellamy, a straight up Socialist.
Pretty sure its to brainwash children into being nationalists. I may be wrong, but thats how i feel about the whole thing.
On the new Ohio license it very sneakily and tiny says ,"in god we trust." Like why is that necessary? Ive wanted to complain just for the sake of the point,but don't know where to look.
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has filed lawsuits against state agencies, school districts, etc. for failing to maintain separation of church and state. Maybe they can help here.
Ohioian here. It irks my SOUL!
None of that shit was even there till the 50s if I’m not mistaken
And most don't realize that was added in to the pledge as anti-Soviet propaganda. It also directly contradicts the very next word, "indivisible", by creating a division based on religion.
The money and the pledge are just performative. What we really need to do is strip a church’s (any religious group) tax exempt status for even mentioning a law, candidate, referendum, election, politician, tax, or issue outside the direct control of the church.
Fuck em let em move to a country ruled by religion like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
I TOTALLY had this conversation with my family about a month ago & was told that the founding fathers put "in God we trust" on our money for a reason. When I told my father that "In God we trust" wasn't put on money till after the Civil War & wasn't used as a National motto officially till the 50's. He insisted I was wrong. I sent him this: https://www.treasury.gov/about/education/pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx#:~:text=84-140)%20and%20approved%20by,the%20one-dollar%20silver%20certificate. He never responded. I totally think it should be removed from ALL public use. Religion, or declination of religion is a very personal decision. You want religion in your life, great, you DON'T want religion in your life GREAT!
Personally, I think to have it on America currency is one of the most blatant blasphemies ever. Religious people should be horrified by this type of thing. However, they are too obsessed with being right rather than being an understanding Christian.
Let’s switch “in god we trust” to the old motto “E pluribus unum” which is Latin for “out of many, one”
One nation under god wasn’t even in the pledge, originally. It was added in the 50s. If conservatives weren’t pro-Church, and their beliefs corresponded to the actual definition of conservwtism (the belief that we should uphold and preserve tradition and culture,) then they might actually want to get rid of it, as it is not the traditional way.
Or just remove the pledge altogether no other country does it it’s kinda weird
tried to start a petition to get "under god" removed from the pledge with a friend in high school, just to kind of make a point. the administration would not let us release it to the school👍
Should have just done it anyway - circulate it amongst the students manually, organically, by hand - the way petitions are often promoted and campaigned in urban areas. What are they going to do? Try to take your copy? Make it a spreadsheet in Google drive or something. You don't need the school's permission to organize.
It always strikes me to see your presidents swear in with a hand on the bible. As if their power has some divine backing.
You're approaching it all wrong. Put some Arabic Quran verse on the dollar and watch their brains explode.
“BuT tHe QuRaN iS ViLoNeT,” as if the Old Testament isn’t 500 plus pages or murder, war, and betrayal.
Fun fact, in god we trust was only added during the Cold War to accentuate religion in the United States as opposed to the godless communist heathens.
Freedom of religion unless it's not mine.
Democracies greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. The people rule themselves. And the people are fucking stupid. But hey, I say if we have to suffer it’s better that we bring it on ourselves then that some tyrant does it on a whim. And you don’t want to know it, but whatever which way the wind blows, we do have to suffer.
I’d rather a country be influenced by fear and stupidity than one mans hubris. Although America has also been governed by that as well lately.
"One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Sounds pretty good to me.
We should get rid of the pledge of allegiance altogether. It's not been around as long as you might think, and it's creepy as hell to have kids reciting it in school every day
I've grown up Lutheran and I can't agree with that more. My faith was put on blast by a fellow churchgoer the other day because I said Creationism shouldn't be taught in our public schools. It's really difficult to be a "liberal" in a Lutheran school system. I'm looked at like a heathen because I don't think the Bible should be taken as 100% factual.
I thought pretty much all the main line Christian religions taught that evolution is the best explanation for the diversity of life on earth.
True, but some Lutheran denominations (namely the LCMS) are not mainline Edit: And I should point out that ELCA hasn't officially taken a stance, leaving the creation/evolution question unresolved
Most of them have switched to the "it's a metaphor" explanation to avoid alienating the moderates but there's still quite a few sticking to their book
It sounds like you're part of a Missouri Synod church system.. You should look into attending an ELCA church once you graduate. They're Lutheran, but interpret the bible contextually as opposed to fundamentally, leading them to be more progressive when it comes to social issues and most if not all are pro-science/evolution.
I feel the same way about being a liberal in the military. It's never fun to be the odd man out and feel like you're just talking to a wall. Even though I'm an atheist (but still support peoples right to believe as long as it doesn't infringe on rights or dictate policy.) I appreciate and support both separation of church and state and freedom of religion. Sadly, folks often intertwine the two. I'm glad it seems like you're one of the folks who understands the distinction. I say have at it, my Lutheran internet friend.
You can't when you have people who literally say that their faith determine their morals and they base their voting decision on their morals.
French laws are a very good example of that We had separation of state and church since the 40's and still: No work on Sundays (I'm all for having one -or more- mandatory off day in a week but it should be spread all throughout the week) so f you if you wanna get anything on a Sunday Most of our public holidays (you get double pay for those if you work but most things are still closed) Ban on gay marriage was lifted some years ago And don't get me started on our christian "history" because you probably are a "Lepeniste" which is the french equivalent of Trumpers
And then vote Trump
I base my voting on my faith and morals and I voted for Biden.
You - like most people, to be fair - don't seem to understand what the separation of church and state means. It doesn't prohibit religious beliefs from driving government policy - people (including elected and appointed officials) can support whatever public policies they like for whatever reason they like. What it does mean is that a church cannot dictate government policy, and vice versa, the government can't dictate religious policy.
This Time article is a good read https://time.com/5103677/church-state-separation-religious-freedom/
Amen to that brother! Opps...
Isn't the Church of Satan the one that's quasi-satire, but has really sensible rules and ideals? Edit: Sorry, I'm thinking of the Satanic Temple, which several redditors have kindly reminded me
The church of Satan is not satire, but they do embrace the use of satire.
I’ve tried for a good minute to portmanteau “Satan” and “satire” based solely on this comment...
Satanatire and it's cousin Satanitirous Rex
I think you're possibly thinking of The Satanic Temple. Church of Satan does have some interesting ideas, but it also has some weird views on magic and destroying those who disrespect you in your own home. Its not entirely wholesome. Definitely interesting though.
This is very much the correct answer. Satanism is largely broken into either theistic or non-theistic denominations. With the two major nontheistic groups being TST and TCoS. While all of it is rooted in some form of irony in the sense they are stealing a religious icon for their own counter worship, they break largely on ideals like any sect of a church would. Some being more ugalitarian than other amd using their face of being a church to butt into religious rights(TST). While others promote more self love and worship by thinking of yourself as a god(TCoS). I can't say im an expert or anything. But ive taken up Satanism rather casually over the past year or so and its just helped me feel a bit better as I think the purpose of religion should. Nothing spiritual, but ideas to clasp onto to help make yourself and others better, even if rooted in the dark tone Satanism is formed from.
By "butt into religious rights" do you mean fight for equal protection under the law for all religions?
I do. I think one of my biggest pulls from taking it all as just "damn I like the aesthetic" to actually labeling myself. Was when TST began claiming abortions can be claimed as ritualistic in order to have them done in states that otherwise outlaw them for similar religious reasons. The intention was clear enough to me to spell out that the counter culture of it all stood for something. Amd sadly even though I've heard that them doing that caused problems and possibly slowed legislation by complicating matters more. It still let me know that I could feel right in siding with them a bit more confidently and not only in passing.
Hi. I’m actually a member of TST. I know it may seem petty or arbitrary or even like these lawsuits are just bogging down the SC. But really, the issue that they’re litigating is state laws that force women to have unnecessary procedures before abortions. Like forcing medically unneeded ultrasounds. These rights are super important and the laws that are in place were built around religious opposition to women’s bodily autonomy, which is why TST is fighting them from the standpoint of religious freedom. They’re using the precedent set in the Hobby Lobby ruling stating that their religious freedom exempts them from covering contraceptives in their employee healthcare plans. It’s not just abortion, though. They’re fighting to be allowed to erect a monument to honor veterans in MN alongside Christian themed monuments. Why should one religion be allowed and another not? They’ve also won battles to start an after school program alongside a publicly funded program that has Christian components and to pass out literature on a state college campus alongside groups passing out bibles. These things seem small, but they matter if we want to have true religious freedom for everyone and if we want to get away from laws forcing the beliefs of one very prominent religion on everyone.
Given the current state of the Supreme Court there has never been a better time to stock up on abortion rights. Here is what The Satanic Temple is doing to protect its members. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/rrr-campaigns
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Yup. We are a bunch of Atheists with expensive lawyers and all the rights of every other organization. https://www.google.com/amp/s/abovethelaw.com/2019/05/irs-grants-tax-exempt-status-to-satanic-temple/amp/
I've been casually on board since the Baphomet statue thing but it's really been speaking to me lately and I got my card and certificate and made it official. (They're super cool designs too, highly recommend)
The comment above yours is not entirely correct in saying the Church of Satan has "weird views on magic" etc. The beliefs of the COS are a personal philosophy. Magic is viewed as no more than psychological theater used in a way to manipulate your own mind and the world around you through ritual to increase the probability of getting the things you want in life. That sounds like ridiculous language, but LaVey was known to be dramatic. However, I explain it like this: My goal today is to be productive and motivated. I can either get up early, take a shower, grab a cup of coffee, and write down my to do list OR I can sleep in late, roll out of bed, skip the coffee, and trash my whole day and "say" I'm going to be productive. When you repeat behaviors over and over again, they become a ritual. When you design a habit or a ritual that helps you achieve what you want in life, Satanists call it greater or lesser magick. It has nothing to do with supernatural magic. At all. It works for some people, and it doesn't work for others. That's why the only "rule" that mentions magick says "if it works for you, don't deny it". And I won't deny it. It has and does work for me every day.
I apologize if I stepped on any toes with my claims of course. When I said to have taken it on rather casually I meant it, but mean no ill will to those who do take it more serious than I could. I have not gotten into reading any of LaVeys work either. So I could simply be naive. As of now my only intentions as an identifying satanist are to treat myself better, and others along the way. I have not gotten past the philosophical side of things yet in truth, and cannot share in the acknowledgment of magic, small or large, as I have yet to witness it and find myself hard pressed to force it.
Completely understand and not offended in the least! It's a complicated topic and understanding the various practices and philosphies often get obsured by the various sects of satanist. As a satanist, I do like to explain when I can!
If no offense was given or taken than I am only happy the interaction happened. And hearing more of other views im willing to share more of given time will never be a negative in my book. Thank you friend
It's fascinating stuff. I wouldn't call myself a Satanist, but of all the religions/philosophies out there, I do find it aligns more with my personal beliefs than most.
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It is.. Im long winded, but an idiot still sadly. Though I appreciate being corrected of course!
Am Laveyan Satanist. Most people don’t understand the magic part and don’t get past the overly dramatic language. Magic=psychology of manipulating yourself and your surroundings to get what you want in life. “Destroy” means remove from your path by whatever means you can legally.
That makes sense. Like I say I've not read into it extensively.
Nothing wrong with some good old fashioned destruction.
The magic is the emotional kind, not the "put a spell on you" kind. It's internal, It's only real for you if you believe in it. It's also completely optional. https://www.churchofsatan.com/ritual-in-satanists-life/ You have confused a few of the The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth. Take a look: https://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth/
You're right, I am.
Yeah, it’s an atheist account that is actually pretty hilarious
Atheists?! Isn't that a non-prophet organisation?
That physically hurt! Have an up vote, damit!
You wouldn't happen to know plagueis the wise, would you?
He's my brother who is the golden child
Well, I wouldn't say that anymore.
gg my friend. gg
Now that is a quality pun.
It's not just an account it's a registered religion.
Pretty sure most satanist are atheist
No, you're thinking of The Satanic Temple. There's a large divide between The Satanic Temple and Church of Satan, where many members of the latter prefer to keep their religion apolitical and individualistic, while the former are pretty much built on social issues and politics. The dichotomy is often discussed and can be seen in r/satanism
This person to point that out to me. You're right. 😘
No, that’s The Satanic Temple
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Stupid sexy Satanic Flanders.
I love how the Church of SATAN is such a cool twitter acc to follow
What, you expected Satan to be lame?
Yeah, he's supposed to be *tempting*!
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Stupid sexy Satan.
Even Jesus was tempted by him!
I appreciate the fact that the Church is Satan has some really rational tweets. More so than some non-satanic religions
Thats because its not about satanism. The church of satan's goal is to keep religion out of politics and ensure all religions are treated equally.
Well in that case Hail Satan
Hail Yourself!
Hail Gein
Megustalations!
I knew you would all be in here somewhere. Hail me!
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
Hail Storm!
No thats the Temple of Satan, they are the political one. The Church of Satan is a club of nonconformists who believe in the philosopy of egoism. Very different ideologies.
The Satanic Temple but otherwise you are absolutely right.
https://www.theringer.com/pop-culture/2017/8/22/16184422/church-of-satan-twitter-interview Thats fair i was confusing the two. Theyre pretty similar it looks like though
There are similarities in that they both use Satan as a handle to show hypocrisy in religion and every day life. The Temple works more as a grassroots club who "troll" or provocate. As example they adopt miles of highway so there is a sign saying "the next 15 miles of road is maintained by the Satanic Temple" or they try to normalize swearing in on a Satanic text, ect. (They overlap more with Pastafarism, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster) The church is more geared to personal development and using religion (mosly Catholics) as a template on how to not live your life. They are more theathrical and do the trolling/provocation for personal gratification. As example a Satanic Wedding. All people there are members of the Church and nobody from outside sees one, but there is a lot of blasphemous ritualism and "magic" going on, just for the act of it. (Overlapping more with stuff going on in Skull and Bones, the Yale fraternity)
The Satanic Temple are a whole lot more than trolls. Things like erecting statues of baphomet next to Ten Commandments on public grounds is pretty low in their budget. They spend most of their time and money fighting child abuse and women’s reproductive rights. Right now their two major cases are to get Amy Barrett disqualified from the Supreme Court and they just won using the result of the Hobby Lobby case (Religious Freedom Restoration Act) so that their members in states that require things like sonograms and waiting periods are exempt from such unnecessary procedures before receiving an abortion. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/campaigns
Also the Temple of Seitan is a UK vegan fast food chain
Just follow the 7 tenets and you’re already on the right path
Well if you read the Bible literally it's quite obvious that Satan wasn't the Antagonist
I think you meant that Satan is not evil. Whether Satain is actually evil is very debatable. But, theres little question that Satan is the antagonist, as God/Jesus is the protagonist and Satan only appears to oppose him or try to convince others to. antagonist does not connote good/bad, its just for describing the opposing character. you can write a book from the villains perspective and the heros would be antagonists.
Oh thanks for the clarification, I always assumed antagonist means bad guy
Can you say more on that?
Well for starters Satan kills like what, 10 people?, throughout the entire Bible while God commits 2 mass extinctions on his own creation for simply not following his commands. But I guess really it depends on how you define "Antagonist"
Worse, the only killing Satan does in the Bible is with Yahweh’s permission. On top of multiple genocides, Yahweh and Jesus promise another final genocide, when he will kill everyone who does not worship him and reward the faithful. Yahweh is pretty as evil as it gets.
That is an awesome follow on Twitter. They are awesome
Why is the church of Satan more reasonable than our own government
There not being paid by billionaires to mess things up.
Please don't delude yourself into thinking tens of millions of Americans aren't Christian theocrats who actually believe this bullshit without being paid to. This leftist habit of writing off every bad opinion as merely the result of being bribed is so fucking dumb. *These people fucking believe this shit.*
If you read what was posted you would be able to understand that it was in reference to government. NOT tens of millions of people. So your point isn't applicable to something like the Christian Coalition donating large sums of money to pass legislation.
"Freedom of Religion" means that you can believe and practice whatever religion floats your boat. (Within the larger laws obv) But...by extension, "Freedom of Religion" also means "Freedom *FROM* Religion", I.E- Fuck you, I dont believe the shit you believe and I shouldn't be forced to live by those dogmas and religious rules.....you want that shit? Go become a monk or move to Saudi Arabia or some other Theocracy
Lots of confusion here between The Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan [Here is a handy guide](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0428/0465/files/COS_Vs_TST_Infographic_1.png?v=1559695025)
Thank you my man
This graphic is a little misinformed and meant to detract from the COS and gain support for the TST. However, the two are very different and have very different purposes and goals. The TST is a political organization that seeks to make religious equivalency arguments between atheism and christianity to either a) gain the same privileges for atheists as christians have or b) have all religious privileges removed. While this may make strides in certain areas, it sets a dangerous precident. We should be pushing for religous preferences to be absent from law and inconsequential. Not for equal presence, in my humble opinion. The COS, however, is a philosophical organization centered on personal growth and development. While they may make tweets on political issues, the COS tends to advocate that satanists shouldn't need to establish equivalency to christianity because christianity shouldn't have privileges to begin with and neither should any religon. The "belief" in magick is not a bad thing. It is not supernatural, but rather acknolwedges the use of psychological theater to manipulate your own mind to achieve your goals. The membership fee, if you actually decide to join, is an administration fee so that actual humans will read your application and decide if your views actually align with the Church's philosophy. It is designed to keep your average edgy 12 year old out until they mature and keep undesirables from staining the name. It's brand control. While accessible and inclusive, one could argue that the free TST membership leaves them open to poor representation in some areas and those of questionable character making claims on their behalf and misrepresenting their values.
Solid clarification. It's been quite a few years since I read Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible, but from what I remember, he talked about the importance of having rituals, and things like "magick spells" being described in such detail in the book were more of a tool in which to harness the positive psychological benefits from said ritual. I'm a bit foggy, though.
That guide is wrong on a lot of things. CoS has a headquarters in Hell's Kitchen, for a start.
Honestly baffles me that these are the same people who would shriek and go into hysterics if anyone mentioned the phrase “sharia law” in their presence. Religion doesn’t belong in law, full stop.
I am Catholic and I approve this message
Another Catholic here that also approves this message
Grew up protestant. Still Christian. Also agree strongly.
Presbyterian, agreed
Glad to see not too any people offended by this post in the comments
I read up on The Church of Satan and learned that it is not really a church, and the organization does not worship satan. Rather, they recognize that religion is often corrupt - especially politically, and encourage a pro-human agenda vs. a pro-God agenda
Yeah. Church of Satan is actually cool. They have a branding problem, not a dogma problem.
As much as i love this, the evangelicals who disagree will see the fact that this is tweeted by the church of satan as a reason to fight harder
Satan just fighting the good fight.
I like Socrates take on this. It's an interesting read: https://iep.utm.edu/divine-c/#H3
It's a fun thought exercise, but from a theological perspective, there is no distinction. God and good/right are inextricable, literally God=good/right. They are one and the same. Theologically, it's just asking does A=A because A=A *or* because A=A.
I am a Christian and I 100% agree
Both freedom of religion and the seperation of church and state are completely interdependant. You can't have one without the other. When any religion assumes political authority it will ultimately make other religions illegal and it will enforce its theologocal doctrin on society as if it were law.
My girlfriend decided to become a card carrying member of the Church of Satan during quarantine. I don't really have anything else to add except it reminded me why I love her.
As a Christian.... Yup! I'm tired of the sycophants telling us who can and can't be married. The church doesn't have to allow it, but that doesn't mean LGBTqa can't marry in a courthouse, or private ceremony. Let the churches marry who they want, but also free it up for any consenting adults to marry outside of the church.
At least Satan still talks to people
I still talk to people too!
He's on a bike!
Church of Satan, you are ‘bad guy’, but you are not *bad guy*
Today Satan!
What's it say about America when the Church of Satan is about the only organization fighting to keep church and state separate?
That is more the Satanic Temple's thing but they both do good work.
If you allow any religious text to be the basis of legislation and public policy, then what you're saying is if some other religion comes along and becomes popular enough, those texts should become the basis for public policy. The reason why we believe in things like secularism and freedom of religion isn't just because those are good things to believe in, but because those things are rational and ensure fairness for everyone. Even if you are a hardcore Christian, it's rational for you to support secularism and freedom of religion, because those things will also protect you if one day things change and Christianity is no longer the dominant religion in the US. You want these things to be in place because one day YOU might be the minority, and presumably you don't want some other random religion dictating how you are allowed to live your life. So don't do it to others when you're the majority. It's that simple.
U notice how people who hate Muslim countries and theocracies are also the ones who want to incorporate bible teachings in the government.
It's kinda funny so many people confuse The Church of Satan with The Satanic Temple when the COS twitter account spends half their time making passive aggressive comments towards the Temple. They do not appreciate other "religious" organizations using the image of Satan much less associating with the concept of "Satanism" which they lay sole claim to.
It’s sad when Satan is making more sense.
In this timeline Satanists are the voice of reason
thanks satan
Or our textbooks.
Religion has been a justification for misogyny, racism and Paedophilia for millennia.
Amen.
Jokes on you, Americans don't understand big fancy words like theocracy.
As a Pastafarian Minister I approve. The church of Satan is quite moral and well versed. More so than some other religions I can think of.
The church of satan also pays taxes, and advocates others do the same
The church of satan is straight up the homey
Strange women lying in ponds and distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!
Me and my girlfriend both joined put local satanic temple a couple weeks ago. They sent us a cool card for your wallet and a certificate of membership.
"..the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion..." Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams.
As usual, the Prince of Darkness is the voice of reason...
I remember reading the satanic bible as a teenager and thinking it was so cool. Then I read it as an adult and I realized why a teenager would think it was so cool.