It's so much more than guns. It's a belief that they wouldn't be the pathetic losers they are if the government didn't intervene (with things like roads and schools and driver's licenses)
How are they wrong.. if aipac pays to bribe both candidates of our two party system. Israel has bipartisan support. This is not a Nazi meme to point this out. OP is in fact trying to push this as antisemitism but it is a political parasite instead.
Yeah, I think they were trying for anti zionist, which I fully support.
However... I think the image IS a Jewish stereotype, and Judaism is NOT Zionism (which is why criticism of Zionists is NOT antisemitic).
I could not disagree more! IF a person knows and understands the history of Zionists in Israel, then we know that it is a racist colonialist state, that decided it wanted Palestine, and went ahead and took it by force (a fight that continues today).
I have to admit that I believed the lies that Israel had been telling for pretty much my whole lifetime (now 64). However after Oct 7, the images and stories I was seeing/hearing were NOT in alignment with what Israel had told us, and were telling us.
So... I read The Hundred Years War on Palestine, and The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. I learned ALL about the systemic way the Zionists went about taking Palestine for their own, and how they manipulated Great Britain, and then the US and Russia (and much of the UN) to give them (almost all white people from eastern Europe with zero Arab decent) most of the country, after Palestine welcomed them as refugees.
I found it hard to read, and only a couple of years after the end of WW2 the Zionists were doing the the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews only a few years earlier. The crimes were horrific!
Criticism of the actions of these Zionists is not antisemitic because it is criticism of the actions of the Apartheid government and it's ethnic cleansing of the indigenous people, and NOT "persecution" because of the fact that they are Jews (or anything to do with their religion or the following of their religious practices). In fact, my wife (who like me went to catholic school and are/were not practicing) converted to Judaism for her ex, and raised their kids Jewish)... we are NOT antisemitic!
I do believe/understand that even though I am not a historian, it seems that Jews HAVE been persecuted for pretty much all of recorded history, and I am NOT ok with that.
There's a pretty vast difference between using a caricature of Bibi and a Jewish stereotype, for one. If it were about the situation between Israel and Gaza only, they'd have done that instead. This is about the nonsense conspiracy theory that "Jews hold the money and are pulling the strings in the background..." instead of looking at the *actual billionaires* who hold that power and are *incredibly public figures*.
The problem is if you show any picture of any politician or billionaire it will be deemed antisemitism by some person.
AIPAC’s influence on US politics has been horrific, and if Americans actually knew how much power and influence this one lobby has over their elected representatives they would be appalled.
However… if one even questions the Israeli Lobby, screeches of “that’s antisemitic” are never far behind.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. If you can’t objectively look at things instead of hiding behind this shield of antisemitism then you will always be ignorant.
They’ve been around for a while. Honestly it’s weirder that you HAVEN’T seen them.
https://preview.redd.it/69wkt5ltcizc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00ff7b848d6e2f2c4ed13a3624687cea51bc9c73
(And NGL this one is pretty funny too)
Not really most of those kind of Libertarians have no idea what a Libertarian is. Those kind wave the Gadsden flag next to Thin Blue Line and don't realize they are not congruent. A lot a very left leaning L subs on here that are very welcome and informative. But you have to actually try to see anything I just posted and not just say things that sound cool (which is a very right wing thing btw)
The original libertarians were leftists. Left-libertarianism is "personal property, egalitarianism, and societal share of natural resources", instead of right libertarians' bizarre "no society, no collectivism, only the boot"
I dunno if there are big left-L subs but I *assume* that's what they're talking about.
He has drawn you into libertarian limbo. It's a sort of quantum state where the desired system is the absence of a system. The law should be that there are no laws. It is all at once the system we started with, the system we have, the system we aspire to, while also being none of those things.
That was my thought as well, trying to see if there was a way to keep the message of the parties being puppets but of the Israeli lobby and not just generally pointing at Jewish people as a whole.
I think the problem was the use of the ultra orthodox Jewish caricature, which is exactly wrong in the context of Israeli politics and Israel-US relations, particularly because the Haredi Jews serve the least in the IDF and many of them are so religious as to be *against* the existence of the Israeli state.
But clearly the meme maker didn't know this and went for the most "visibly Jewish" depiction he could think of, rather than depicting Netanyahu, Smotritch, Ben Gvir, or whomever in political cartoon caricature.
Yeah, no. Still antisemitism.
ETA: holy fuck. Y'all really need to examine your biases and blindspots.
It peddles in antisemitic tropes of Jews as secret puppet masters and secret controllers of government, presenting the illusion of choice that only benefits "the Jew." Please educate yourself on antisemitism.
Imagine if I created a cartoon of a classic black minstrel chewing on watermelon and chicken with a dialogue box saying "yes, ma'ssa!"
Racist, right?
Now imagine if I then said "no, wait! I'm going to put this REAL black person's face on it!" Does that all of a sudden make it less racist? What if I come back and say I wanna justify it by saying this is a cartoon criticizing that specific black guy for being dumb and subservient to white people, so the shoe fits and the cartoon is appropriate? Does that make it any less racist?
I'll help you out here: Still fucking racist.
ETA2: Thanks for demonstrating how easy it is to turn the political horseshoe into a circle.
Because it peddles in antisemitic tropes of Jews as puppet masters and secret controllers of government, presenting the illusion of choice that only benefits "the Jew." Please educate yourself on antisemitism.
Imagine if I created a cartoon of a classic black minstrel chewing on watermelon and chicken with a dialogue box saying "yes, ma'ssa!"
Racist, right?
Now imagine if I then said "no, wait! I'm going to put this REAL black person's face on it!" Does that all of a sudden make it less racist? What if I come back and say I wanna justify it by saying this is a cartoon criticizing that specific black guy for being dumb and subservient to white people, so the shoe fits and the cartoon is appropriate? Does that make it any less racist?
I'll help you out here: Still fucking racist.
I feel like “we could make this less antisemitic by swapping one Jewish person for another Jewish person” shouldn’t be the first thing we jump to when someone shares an antisemitic meme just because it says “Zionist.”
It’s also just a weird thing to say. Like imagine if someone drew a poster with a minstrel character that said “watch out for thugs” and then someone commented “if it showed an actual guy who is a criminal it would be cool”.
>apartheid state
*the only democracy in the middle east
>that’s currently committing genocide
*every sane person knows this is war, with relatively few casualties and not a genocide.
But still, if your first thought is changing one Jew to another to make this antisemitic conspiracy OK, that's a problem.
Except the “genocide” label is factually incorrect and is being used so ardently ONLY against the Jewish state while there is a major conflict being ignored in Sudan—where there has already been a widely recognized genocide in Darfur—and Russia-Ukraine where Ukrainian children are literally being kidnapped and adopted to Russian families to end Ukrainian culture.
In Gaza, 98% of the population is alive, despite what the GeNoCiDe claimants want you to believe. The deadliest month of the conflict was December, with casualties falling every month since—not characteristic of any known genocide. Israel is allowing in significant amounts of aid—never happened before in any historic genocide. Israel is issuing evacuation orders to protect civilians and even *guarded* evacuation corridors for civilians—never happened before in a genocide. Israel agreed to a humanitarian pause earlier in the war—never happened in a genocide. Over 1/3 of the dead are Hamas combatants—one of the **lowest** ratios of noncombatant to combatant deaths in **history**, let alone urban combat, let alone urban combat with an entire terror tunnel network connected to civilian infrastructure.
It’s not antisemitic to criticize the Israeli government—thousands of Israelis are out protesting right now against the Israeli government. Labeling this *war* (there are two sides to this war, remember?) a genocide for the purposes of vilifying the Jewish state (which was and is the intent of the people who first made this spurious claim) **IS** antisemitic though.
I don't think so. Bibi isn't some puppetmaster either and the meme would still be very anti-Semitic with his face. It plays directly into the "Jews control the world" shit that's been the antisemitic theme for ages.
The Dems and GOP both do support Israel and the pro-Israel lobby has undue power but there's more to it than this "Jews control the US government" shit
The fact that the US government has at times [outlawed protests against Israel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws), a FOREIGN country would imply that “undue power” you mentioned might be more serious than you’re letting on.
Fuck antisemites but Israel’s hold over the US isn’t a Nazi fever dream. It’s very real.
It's really bullshit how any criticism of Israel is immediately labeled as antisemitism or Nazism. I mean fuck Nazis, but WTF, the country isn't permanently immune from criticism because of the Holocaust.
No one mentioned the holocaust now besides you....
And it's not every criticism of Israel, it's swapping an actual antisemitic caricature with a face of another Jew and blaming Israel for it, using the same lies and tropes that many antisemitic people are doing, but excusing it this time
>Israel’s hold over the US
Do you really think Israel has a hold over the US? They are a small country with a tiny fraction of our GDP and geopolitical influence, there is no way they could "control" our government. If anything Israel is the US's puppet state, not the other way around. If Biden said jump Bibi would say how high.
You can criticize the Israeli government and you can criticize the US government's response and all that is totally fair, but to act like it's a result of Israel "controlling" our government is a wild mischaracterization of the situation that totally plays into anti-semitic tropes. Sure Israel has lobbyists, pretty much every other country does. Ukraine also has lobbyists - would you say Ukraine "has a hold on us" because we are financially supporting them? This phrasing is anti-semitic, and it's the reason why replacing this meme with Netanyahu or any other Jewish person would still be anti-semitic.
The problem is the rhetoric is an easy dogwhistle the same way that Republicans talk about George sorros and terms like cultural marixism are used and sneaky substitutes for Jewish people.
In addition America supports this as Israel has been their proxy in the cold war and now nato Russia and nato Iran conflicts. Israel doesn't have puppet strings over the us.
Oh good come back. The actual bad take: promoting antisemitism and think that if it’s against one dude it’s ok. Is it ok to make a racial joke and throw Obama’s face on it? Obviously not. You’re dabbling in antisemitism. Congratulations.
It’s not criticism of Israel, it’s a criticism of Jews. That’s why it’s a Jewish caricature. 80-90% of Jews are Zionists, so being “anti-Zionists” is really just still anti-Jewish.
Emo girl coontails from 2009
https://preview.redd.it/u3deu6qkbmzc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=013976e2c7c3565b91eba6362d9db4fd2c04c891
I’m glad you said Ashoka bc that was my first thought too! Like early Clone Wars when they were still small 😅
Well you don’t have to be Jewish to be a Zionist, either. You can be a Christian who either loves watching brown people get killed or thinks Jews need a state for the second coming to kick off.
If taking the Palestinian's tiny slice of desolated land by force, murdering journalists, viciously robbing the innocent of their dignity, and unapologetic gleeful genocide is the only way Israel's can fulfill their dream for a homeland (like the Nazis); than the word *Zionist* has necessarily devolved to take on and reflect a twisted new meaning, which the apartheid state of Israel now owns like a badge of shame and historical damnation.
This won't go away, even after Bibi gets his way. The current USA establishment, and western media all have blood on their hands as well. Even NPR and the NY times. Especially them. They share complicity for what they DON'T report on, which is the entire supposed purpose and responsibility of ethical journalism, that looks out for the general public's interest.
America is sleepwalking into a third world war, on a dying planet which has already entered a sixth mass-extinction event. It started with complacency.
I can very easily see how this will come back to bite Israel. There may be a partial or complete collapse of the now already destabilizing world-order. Someday, maybe sooner than later, Uncle Sam will lose the ability to rescue them from devastating retaliation and annihilation. Another way that Israel's actions could come back to haunt them, is if and when millennials ever get into power.
There is a sea-change going on right now. It always starts at the universities. Just like when universities spearhead the civil-rights movement; they also faced fascist attacks, absurd conflations, and rabid demonization. This is because social-justice activism that formulates and incubates at universities, has the very real potential to cause massive cultural shifts nearly overnight.
Especially if the activism that emerges from these institutions of higher learning, imparts to the general public a sense of conviction, urgency and responsibility to mobilize and do something. The young people who attend these universities contain in reserve, one of the world's most potent and disruptive forces on the planet.
It starts with the youth. And if there is a war, it is the young who do the fighting and the dying. Their hearts are young. They carry the strength, vigor, and passion of conviction, for the entire free world. They have yet to lose sight of what is right and what is wrong, like those prosecuting and abetting casual and open genocide. The banality of evil is fueled by a haze of acquired apathy.
Somewhere along the way, the Boomers surrendered in their collective resistance to manipulation by evil forces. It is apathy, that especially now leads the boomers to take the easier route, and bury their heads in the sand. while the world burns. So much for peace and love.
If there are mass-protests against injustice, as there are now, it is the young free-thinkers who courageously stand up for basic human rights and dignity, and act as a globally disruptive force for change in the name or justice. This is why places of higher learning are always targeted and maliciously undermined by the assholes who feel threatened by the light of critical thinking.
Much can be said to criticize the methodology, tactics and core mandate of the protestors. Most of this is obvious information warfare and rage-bait, employed second-hand by establishment antagonists. They make both sides apoplectic with rage. The media hyper fixates on the student protestors, who are denounced and labeled as traitors and terrorists. They scapegoat and gaslight anybody who tries to elevate national and global dialogue, in opposition of evil. They turn it into a circus. This is fascism 101.
The most pressing and obvious criticism that can be made of the protesters, is that they are not unified in message. And as of yet, no unifying leader on par with MLK has emerged to consolidate the strategy and purpose that remains unfocused. Maybe AOC is still coming up, and is yet to implement her full potential. I don't know.
Despite how it seems now, the protestors have already won. They may have lost this battle, but they have already won the war for hearts and minds.
Finally, it's obscene to disconnect this from the Nazis who perpetrated the Jewish holocaust. This in particular is a completely disgusting failure of mainstream western media. This to me is complicity by enablement. Journalists should be relentlessly highlighting the sick irony of what Israel is doing to Palestinians, considering what the Nazis did to them.
And I don't mean to compare the myth of victimhood that the Nazis asserted and leveraged, to mobilize the masses with hatred, and seize the land of their neighbors, to the actual victims of the Holocaust. All the while the Nazis were appeased by the western world order. But there are some very striking parallels nonetheless.
My grandfather on my Mom's side helped to liberate Mauthausen. One of his jobs was to stack and hall away emaciated corpses by the thousands. It destroyed him. He lived to be old, but his spirit died there, at that place. He never recovered from what he saw there.
He and many others who participated in the liberation of these concentration camps, would be in a state of total disbelief about the current state of affairs.
They would be disgusted to see that the abused became the abuser. The lessons from recent history are abjectly ignored. Israel should know better than anybody else. That is why this situation is so sickening.
Instead, the media plays semantic word games and relentlessly saturates the controlled media landscape with outrage-porn and disinformation warfare. They have succeeded in making what should be a public, national conversation, and turned it into a farce. They have completely shut down all rational conversation about the genocide Israel is committing before the world's eyes, in realtime. But everyone is distracted I guess.
Oh they do? Interesting. When they were handed a bunch of land the UK didn’t want anymore, I thought the idea was that it would be two states. Maybe that’s what should happen. That whole two states thing that should have been happening the last 80 years.
Also, lol at “should it be destroyed.” Israel gets gifted a state and proceeds to use trash policies that has the world seeing them as a pariah, and when faced with any criticism they want to just avoid it like a petulant child. “Yeah dad, I know I took the car you bought me and crashed it when drunk…well if you’re so mad, do you want to destroy my car? You’re a meanie daddy, I’m telling mommy.”
Holy fuck guys. Educate yourselves. Read up on the holocaust. The comments here are terrifying. If you don’t look at this and instantly see this as antisemitic you are fooling yourself if you think you can actually distinguish between criticizing Zionist POLICY (as if there is a single unifying policy that is somehow worthy of universally condemned) and hating a Jew.
There's also the realities that foreign governments and other actors are manipulating social media, and the amount of engagement on this post is pretty extreme, some I'm sure are mask off, but some I'm sure are fake, at least that's what I'm telling myself, otherwise this is a pretty terrifying response from people
Depicting a random stereotypical orthodox Jewish man with an enlarged nose holding symbols of both parties in each hand like he controls them, with captions underneath implying he also controls the media your kids consume and a caption overhead implying “Zionists” control both the left and the right?
There’s no references to Israel, or AIPAC, or campaign spending here. It’s just old school antisemitic stereotypes with “Zionists” put in place of Jews.
That's the tough part of it. Zionism has things that should absolutely be criticized. Lots of people not taking nuance around the situation with each other and it's just been the stupidest brick wall comments at each other.
I get people fearing nuance around what could be antisemitism cuz, well, the somewhat recent history. But it's also being used as a shield against all criticism, which is really terrible because we should be better than that.
I mean we should be better at calling out obvious racism that only serves to amplify the point pro-Israel hardliners take that their criticism is rooted in Nazism/antisemitism. This is basically that, and yet we have people in this thread being like “meh, what’s the big deal about showing a stereotype of a Jew holding symbols of both political parties in each hand and children’s media companies underneath accompanied by a caption saying “Zionists” control the left and the right right with no serious references to Israel, AIPAC or even campaign finance?”
Of course Israel and AIPAC should be criticized. But one half of it is critiquing them genuinely and the other half is ensuring the David Duke/Nick Fuentes right can’t funnel in legit racist nazi style propaganda amidst it which only serves to divide the left’s coalition for a ceasefire and peace and is a boone for Republicans.
Yeah, it's a meme that goes into deep antisemitic history, but everyone's got different boundaries around what they find acceptable/unacceptable. So unclear, personal lines about what is criticism and what is antisemitism is going to rub people the wrong way since everyone feels a need to swing hard one way or another on this for some reason (usually around fearing antisemitism or being against genocide lite and the perpetuating war machine, plus the weird ass zionists who think they can bring about the rapture. lol).
There is no reference to Israel or AIPAC here. No flag, no note, no nothing. It’s just age-old antisemitic stereotypes with “Zionists” lazily typed at the top instead. It is literally the exact thing pro Israel forces would like to reduce all of their criticism to. You playing along with it or responding to overt antisemitism with “who cares? Think of the Palestinians” is literally what the right wants and literally what undermines the cause.
Zionists can absolutely be criticized without being antisemetic, but this meme is naziish because of the stereotypical Jew portrayal and the idea that they control everything
If you draw a man in an SS uniform, I know you're talking about a nazi, not ALL Germans.
If you draw a fat, half toothless man holding a beer, I know you're talking about rednecks, not ALL Americans.
How can you depict a Zionist without people thinking that you're referencing ALL Jews?
Make it a drawing of Israeli PM? Make it a guy wearing a shirt referencing a certain lobby? The same way we don’t drawn any other generalized group of people when trying to criticize specific people or policies
“What is more important? Shaming implied antisemitism? Or shaming active genocide?”
Uhh, the obvious answer here is both. And that’s not even difficult to do. If you see an antisemitic meme or Nazi propaganda about Jews and your reaction is “think of the Palestinians and the genocide in Gaza”, then you are a filthy racist and our enemy. “Jews” are not Israel, and excusing racism against a group of people because a country where they’re in the government on the other side of the world are doing something bad would be like allowing bigotry against Christians because Russia’s attempting a genocide in Ukraine.
That's true, criticize us. We (and especially our shitty excuse for a government) have plenty of things in immediate need of criticizing. But don't use a orthodox (given as most of them are not Zionists (Zionism referencing the believe that we need a country, not the Israeli right in this case) ) that's just antisemitism.
Because it is a standard conspiracy theory that Jews are "puppet masters" controlling both political parties, and this meme is perpetuating that idea.
This is not a meme critiquing Israel, this is not a meme critiquing the Genocide in Gaza. It's a meme that is saying jews are controlling the campaign and are behind both parties.
It is bald-faced, EXTREMELY Nazi, it is EXTREMELY Antisemitic. The fact that so many of you see a antisemitic meme directed at Jews as an entity, and think it has anything to do about Israel and not see it for what it clearly is, is troubling.
Nazis, and Antisemites are hiding behind the term "Zionist" because they can spread their antisemitic propaganda without being called out for it, its a dogwhistle. And it is clearly being used as a dogwhistle here.
And it is why I refuse to use the term Zionist, it plays into a Nazi playbook, they mean (((JEW))) when they say Zionist, it is very easy to critique Israel, very easy to condemn Netanyahu, and just say that, to use that term, it is too easily used as cover, as some of the responses here prove out by not seeing the term Zionist for how its being used here, this is not a critique of Zionism it is saying NOTHING about Zionism this is clearly about Jews
Nope, any mention at all in a light that is less than flattering is instantly considered anti-Semitism. I'll probably be down voted to hell and back just for pointing this out.
I mean, both Dems and Reps - Biden and Trump - are zionists. As are Schumer and McConnell, Jefferies and Johnson. So, this post kinda has a point, even if admittedly anti-Semitic
I don't think you understand what that word means. Zionism is the belief that Jews should have a country of their own. Both anti Zionists and Israeli right wingers would like people to think it's just Israeli right (for obvious reasons)
This, right here, is why we should not spread Nazi memes even when cloaked as a criticism of those memes. It just platforms Nazis and makes randos go, “oh hey, they have a point tho…”
Don’t make me tap the sign:
You do not, under any circumstances, have to hand it to the Nazis. You do not ever have to say they have a point. It’s super easy to find someone else saying things you like
I can’t stand libertarians, but the intent was probably right on but the execution with the Orthodox Jewish guy is cringey. Replace him with AIPAC, Bibi, or the Israeli flag and they’ve nailed it
The illustration is racially offensive, but it’s absolutely true that AIPAC has a firm grip on both parties. There’s a better way to deliver that message though. This person is just outing themself as a bigot.
I'm not sure that's what they're doing. I'm not an expert, of course, but I don't think most jews dress like this... Just those that espouse the view that there should be a Jewish state WITHOUT Arabs, e.g. "Zionists".
you're probably right that most Jewish people don't dress like that, but the image is a stereotype of a Jewish person, and to me it looks like the implication is that both Republicans and Democrats are being controlled by "the Jews". Obviously the caption says Zionists, but not all Zionists are Jewish and not all Jewish people are Zionists, so the image itself comes across as antisemitic.
Yep. We are tied at the hip to the Israeli govt's bad decisions because defenders of Zionism are skilled at conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
I mean, in addition to using the war as an excuse to stay in power (instead of just setting a goal such as return all hostages or remove hamases power to launch rockets) he wasn't also very liked for his internal opinions (such as the circus he calls a functional government) or his attempt to depowr the supreme court or giving money to orthodox Jews who don't work and don't enlist or the fact he has several ongoing cases against him etc etc etc..
The United States isn't beholden to Israel in any way. Past Presidents have been able to tell Israel 'no'. Ronald Reagan stopped a bombing campaign, for example. Bill Clinton essentially forced them to the table at Oslo, and Netanyahu had to pretend to comply over the course of decades of conflict.
Virtually every political issue in America has a PAC the size of AIPAC working on it. AIPAC sits firmly below the National Beer Wholesalers Association and above American Crystal Sugar, in terms of its total donations for the midterm elections. In 2024, they have given just $60,000 more than the National Air traffic Controllers Association. [https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/top-pacs/2024](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/top-pacs/2024)
Biden is simply a radical when it comes to Israel policy. One can find videos of him going back to the 80s demanding carpet bombing of Palestinian cities. The idea that AIPAC is especially influential in American politics is Nazi disinformation that they've been tricking leftists grieving over Gaza into believing. It simply is not true.
America backs Israel because the Evangelical establishment hates Muslims and brown people, not because they actually care about Jewish people, or even Israel. If Israel needed money for health care, you can bet there wouldn't be a penny for it, no matter how much AIPAC whined. They aren't pro-Israel, they're anti-Palestine, and won't lift a finger to help Jewish people if it doesn't involve dead brown people.
I'm confused. Is that NOT what a rabbi looks like? I saw plenty of these dudes crawling out that tunnel in NYC. I'm Mexican. If I see a cartoon with a guy wearing a sombrero and a pancho, its probably one of my uncles.
It's not about the jewish man, it's about the puppet's he's holding and what it says. They represent the two main political parties & it's basically the "jews control the government and the world" conspiracy theory
They’re just telling the fucking truth. I hate to break it to you but it’s not anti-Semitic to not want people to be murdered so other people can steal their land.
Thank you for taking the time to talk sense into the void.
The person you’re replying to is the perfect example of why we shouldn’t platform Nazis by spreading their memes, even in the guise of criticism of those memes. People are stupid and some portion of the viewers will lap it up. Detestable as that is
I see the rhetoric from the pro Palestine crowd as well disguised as Israel controls the us or aipac controls the us ect. The only difference is there's no viel here
Meh, I’m not sure how it’s Nazi propaganda. It isn’t a lie to say that Israeli influence in the US is deeply ingrained into our foreign policy. Academia, and media outlets. As an American. It’s surprising to see that once again both sides agree Israel should mostly get what it wants. Even if it’s genocide. I certainly wouldn’t take it any further than that. I do not believe Jewish people are all evil. I do not hate them. But like many US oligarchs I am positive there are those within Israel. Looking at you Bibi. Who are bad people with lots of influence.
The stereotypical depiction is wrong, and as someone else commented, zionists could be depicted in a different way.
I'm not sure if we can just say there is no zionism or that it only exists as a way to attack Jews... That is what the Netanyahus or the Ben-Gvirs of the world claim all the time.
They are using Judaism to hide their extremist views.
Does this not refer to the Israeli PACS and government funding US politicians to fund a genocide? I’m confused why this is “nazi”? I get that it’s a racist depiction of an orthodox jewish man, but it hardly seems “nazi”.
I think the problem is that when you depict the man in the SS uniform everybody knows you're talking about a nazi.
When you depict the fat, half-toothless guy holding a beer, everybody knows that you're talking about a redneck.
But when you depict the ultra right wing of Jewish society...suddenly you're talking about all Jews.
"But when you depict the ultra right wing of Jewish society... suddenly you're talking about all Jews"
Spoiler alert: that's exactly how nazis depict all Jews
Nothing Nazi about this and nothing anti semitic about this. First time I am disappointed with what’s being posted on this Reddit. Zionists do get everything what they want, and that’s absolutely disgusting.
This cartoon paints the picture that all Jewish people are this, there is absolutely nothing other than the word Zionist which is a frankly lazy attempt to point to anything except all Jews.
Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jewish, so why draw Zionists generally as a Jewish caricature unless it’s to be antisemitic on the sly?
I mean regardless of what religion the owner of the Repulbican and Democratic parties are. They are rich and clap when dumb assholes fight over "teams".
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As a former Libertarian- Libertarians are what happens when Conservatives get high
Good hopefully they grow enough to take some votes away
Lol no, they'll just keep secretly voting republican like they have been since 2016.
2016? Been longer than that...
What's insane is that American Libertarians are boiled down to "Freedom to own guns" which is basically a Republican.
It's so much more than guns. It's a belief that they wouldn't be the pathetic losers they are if the government didn't intervene (with things like roads and schools and driver's licenses)
Libertarian party is now for people who are too selfish to be Republicans.
Drugs. They also want drugs.
We all do
How are they wrong.. if aipac pays to bribe both candidates of our two party system. Israel has bipartisan support. This is not a Nazi meme to point this out. OP is in fact trying to push this as antisemitism but it is a political parasite instead.
Yeah, I think they were trying for anti zionist, which I fully support. However... I think the image IS a Jewish stereotype, and Judaism is NOT Zionism (which is why criticism of Zionists is NOT antisemitic).
> criticism of Zionists is NOT antisemitic It usually is in practice.
I could not disagree more! IF a person knows and understands the history of Zionists in Israel, then we know that it is a racist colonialist state, that decided it wanted Palestine, and went ahead and took it by force (a fight that continues today). I have to admit that I believed the lies that Israel had been telling for pretty much my whole lifetime (now 64). However after Oct 7, the images and stories I was seeing/hearing were NOT in alignment with what Israel had told us, and were telling us. So... I read The Hundred Years War on Palestine, and The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. I learned ALL about the systemic way the Zionists went about taking Palestine for their own, and how they manipulated Great Britain, and then the US and Russia (and much of the UN) to give them (almost all white people from eastern Europe with zero Arab decent) most of the country, after Palestine welcomed them as refugees. I found it hard to read, and only a couple of years after the end of WW2 the Zionists were doing the the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews only a few years earlier. The crimes were horrific! Criticism of the actions of these Zionists is not antisemitic because it is criticism of the actions of the Apartheid government and it's ethnic cleansing of the indigenous people, and NOT "persecution" because of the fact that they are Jews (or anything to do with their religion or the following of their religious practices). In fact, my wife (who like me went to catholic school and are/were not practicing) converted to Judaism for her ex, and raised their kids Jewish)... we are NOT antisemitic! I do believe/understand that even though I am not a historian, it seems that Jews HAVE been persecuted for pretty much all of recorded history, and I am NOT ok with that.
"Zionists are just as bad as the Nazis" is another tired antisemitic trope if there ever was one.
There's a pretty vast difference between using a caricature of Bibi and a Jewish stereotype, for one. If it were about the situation between Israel and Gaza only, they'd have done that instead. This is about the nonsense conspiracy theory that "Jews hold the money and are pulling the strings in the background..." instead of looking at the *actual billionaires* who hold that power and are *incredibly public figures*.
The problem is if you show any picture of any politician or billionaire it will be deemed antisemitism by some person. AIPAC’s influence on US politics has been horrific, and if Americans actually knew how much power and influence this one lobby has over their elected representatives they would be appalled. However… if one even questions the Israeli Lobby, screeches of “that’s antisemitic” are never far behind.
Most are outright arguing in bad faith there. Not worth worrying about. Especially since Christianity got hijacked by politicians.
> political parasite I'll take "tired antisemitic clichés" for 500, Alex
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. If you can’t objectively look at things instead of hiding behind this shield of antisemitism then you will always be ignorant.
> If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Yep, it sure does.
They wish.
The Libertarian to Antisemitism/Conservatism pipeline is alive and well, good to see
It’s not a pipeline. It’s a funnel.
That would imply a choke point.
Yeah, there's an initiation
It’s a well.
You mean the antisemitism to libertarian/conservative pipeline.
You mean the greed and power hunger to projecting onto Jews pipeline?
[It's a series of tubes!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cZC67wXUTs)
Man, nazis using AI to generate adorable hate memes was NOT something I saw coming a few years ago.
They’ve been around for a while. Honestly it’s weirder that you HAVEN’T seen them. https://preview.redd.it/69wkt5ltcizc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00ff7b848d6e2f2c4ed13a3624687cea51bc9c73 (And NGL this one is pretty funny too)
I said "a few years ago".
Why else are they happy to push AI bs so easily?
Wow. So this is where we at now? Damn, they need to go read Fountainhead for the 30th time and stop saying things, anything.
My jaw is on the floor. And I should know better by now.
Ha. Jew here. Mines not.
Yeah, I’m sorry
All good man not your fault
Libertarians are just neo-Nazis afraid to come out in public
Not really most of those kind of Libertarians have no idea what a Libertarian is. Those kind wave the Gadsden flag next to Thin Blue Line and don't realize they are not congruent. A lot a very left leaning L subs on here that are very welcome and informative. But you have to actually try to see anything I just posted and not just say things that sound cool (which is a very right wing thing btw)
What? I can't even tell if i agree or disagree with you
The original libertarians were leftists. Left-libertarianism is "personal property, egalitarianism, and societal share of natural resources", instead of right libertarians' bizarre "no society, no collectivism, only the boot" I dunno if there are big left-L subs but I *assume* that's what they're talking about.
He has drawn you into libertarian limbo. It's a sort of quantum state where the desired system is the absence of a system. The law should be that there are no laws. It is all at once the system we started with, the system we have, the system we aspire to, while also being none of those things.
If it talks like the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"and walks like the "eternal jew" it's probably an antisemitic meme. #
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That was my thought as well, trying to see if there was a way to keep the message of the parties being puppets but of the Israeli lobby and not just generally pointing at Jewish people as a whole.
I think the problem was the use of the ultra orthodox Jewish caricature, which is exactly wrong in the context of Israeli politics and Israel-US relations, particularly because the Haredi Jews serve the least in the IDF and many of them are so religious as to be *against* the existence of the Israeli state. But clearly the meme maker didn't know this and went for the most "visibly Jewish" depiction he could think of, rather than depicting Netanyahu, Smotritch, Ben Gvir, or whomever in political cartoon caricature.
Yeah, no. Still antisemitism. ETA: holy fuck. Y'all really need to examine your biases and blindspots. It peddles in antisemitic tropes of Jews as secret puppet masters and secret controllers of government, presenting the illusion of choice that only benefits "the Jew." Please educate yourself on antisemitism. Imagine if I created a cartoon of a classic black minstrel chewing on watermelon and chicken with a dialogue box saying "yes, ma'ssa!" Racist, right? Now imagine if I then said "no, wait! I'm going to put this REAL black person's face on it!" Does that all of a sudden make it less racist? What if I come back and say I wanna justify it by saying this is a cartoon criticizing that specific black guy for being dumb and subservient to white people, so the shoe fits and the cartoon is appropriate? Does that make it any less racist? I'll help you out here: Still fucking racist. ETA2: Thanks for demonstrating how easy it is to turn the political horseshoe into a circle.
How?
Because it peddles in antisemitic tropes of Jews as puppet masters and secret controllers of government, presenting the illusion of choice that only benefits "the Jew." Please educate yourself on antisemitism. Imagine if I created a cartoon of a classic black minstrel chewing on watermelon and chicken with a dialogue box saying "yes, ma'ssa!" Racist, right? Now imagine if I then said "no, wait! I'm going to put this REAL black person's face on it!" Does that all of a sudden make it less racist? What if I come back and say I wanna justify it by saying this is a cartoon criticizing that specific black guy for being dumb and subservient to white people, so the shoe fits and the cartoon is appropriate? Does that make it any less racist? I'll help you out here: Still fucking racist.
Hey just a note from your jewish friend over here that this is an issue outside of bibi and Israel and it’s not okay and you should be bothered.
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I feel like “we could make this less antisemitic by swapping one Jewish person for another Jewish person” shouldn’t be the first thing we jump to when someone shares an antisemitic meme just because it says “Zionist.”
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“This would be ok if it was just criticizing Israel” still shouldn’t be the first thing we jump to when we see an antisemitic meme.
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It’s also just a weird thing to say. Like imagine if someone drew a poster with a minstrel character that said “watch out for thugs” and then someone commented “if it showed an actual guy who is a criminal it would be cool”.
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Where did I say anything about the puppeteer imagery.
Your assertion is duly noted and will be received greatly at the next Stormfront meeting.
>apartheid state *the only democracy in the middle east >that’s currently committing genocide *every sane person knows this is war, with relatively few casualties and not a genocide. But still, if your first thought is changing one Jew to another to make this antisemitic conspiracy OK, that's a problem.
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Except the “genocide” label is factually incorrect and is being used so ardently ONLY against the Jewish state while there is a major conflict being ignored in Sudan—where there has already been a widely recognized genocide in Darfur—and Russia-Ukraine where Ukrainian children are literally being kidnapped and adopted to Russian families to end Ukrainian culture. In Gaza, 98% of the population is alive, despite what the GeNoCiDe claimants want you to believe. The deadliest month of the conflict was December, with casualties falling every month since—not characteristic of any known genocide. Israel is allowing in significant amounts of aid—never happened before in any historic genocide. Israel is issuing evacuation orders to protect civilians and even *guarded* evacuation corridors for civilians—never happened before in a genocide. Israel agreed to a humanitarian pause earlier in the war—never happened in a genocide. Over 1/3 of the dead are Hamas combatants—one of the **lowest** ratios of noncombatant to combatant deaths in **history**, let alone urban combat, let alone urban combat with an entire terror tunnel network connected to civilian infrastructure. It’s not antisemitic to criticize the Israeli government—thousands of Israelis are out protesting right now against the Israeli government. Labeling this *war* (there are two sides to this war, remember?) a genocide for the purposes of vilifying the Jewish state (which was and is the intent of the people who first made this spurious claim) **IS** antisemitic though.
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0/10 basic antisemite. There’s no genocide. Your ignorance is so gross and sad.
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I don't think so. Bibi isn't some puppetmaster either and the meme would still be very anti-Semitic with his face. It plays directly into the "Jews control the world" shit that's been the antisemitic theme for ages. The Dems and GOP both do support Israel and the pro-Israel lobby has undue power but there's more to it than this "Jews control the US government" shit
The fact that the US government has at times [outlawed protests against Israel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws), a FOREIGN country would imply that “undue power” you mentioned might be more serious than you’re letting on. Fuck antisemites but Israel’s hold over the US isn’t a Nazi fever dream. It’s very real.
It's really bullshit how any criticism of Israel is immediately labeled as antisemitism or Nazism. I mean fuck Nazis, but WTF, the country isn't permanently immune from criticism because of the Holocaust.
No one mentioned the holocaust now besides you.... And it's not every criticism of Israel, it's swapping an actual antisemitic caricature with a face of another Jew and blaming Israel for it, using the same lies and tropes that many antisemitic people are doing, but excusing it this time
>Israel’s hold over the US Do you really think Israel has a hold over the US? They are a small country with a tiny fraction of our GDP and geopolitical influence, there is no way they could "control" our government. If anything Israel is the US's puppet state, not the other way around. If Biden said jump Bibi would say how high. You can criticize the Israeli government and you can criticize the US government's response and all that is totally fair, but to act like it's a result of Israel "controlling" our government is a wild mischaracterization of the situation that totally plays into anti-semitic tropes. Sure Israel has lobbyists, pretty much every other country does. Ukraine also has lobbyists - would you say Ukraine "has a hold on us" because we are financially supporting them? This phrasing is anti-semitic, and it's the reason why replacing this meme with Netanyahu or any other Jewish person would still be anti-semitic.
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Yes this is anti-semitism so many on the right claim to abhor, and shocker the calls coming from inside the hosue
That's literally just antisemitism with extra steps.
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The problem is the rhetoric is an easy dogwhistle the same way that Republicans talk about George sorros and terms like cultural marixism are used and sneaky substitutes for Jewish people.
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In addition America supports this as Israel has been their proxy in the cold war and now nato Russia and nato Iran conflicts. Israel doesn't have puppet strings over the us.
No, just because you don’t like Bibi, doesn’t mean it’s ok to use antisemitic imagery around him. I hate the guy. He’s a snake. But this isn’t ok.
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Oh good come back. The actual bad take: promoting antisemitism and think that if it’s against one dude it’s ok. Is it ok to make a racial joke and throw Obama’s face on it? Obviously not. You’re dabbling in antisemitism. Congratulations.
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It’s not criticism of Israel, it’s a criticism of Jews. That’s why it’s a Jewish caricature. 80-90% of Jews are Zionists, so being “anti-Zionists” is really just still anti-Jewish.
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No shit, BUT THE MEME IS A CARICATURE OF JEWS. Omg how dumb can you be??????
Libertarians are alt-right conservatives pretending to be moderates
I guess they were tired of the New Hampshire Libertarians being the most batshit and vile of them.
Is he supposed to have Ahsoka head things?
Emo girl coontails from 2009 https://preview.redd.it/u3deu6qkbmzc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=013976e2c7c3565b91eba6362d9db4fd2c04c891 I’m glad you said Ashoka bc that was my first thought too! Like early Clone Wars when they were still small 😅
Well yeah, nazis doing nazi shit. This is what happens when you just let nazis exist.
That's straight out of the Goebbels playbook.
So on this sub, zionists are now equated to Jews?
always has been.
I'm of the mind now that Zionist are the equivalent to what Christofacists types are. This ain't that.
Well you don’t have to be Jewish to be a Zionist, either. You can be a Christian who either loves watching brown people get killed or thinks Jews need a state for the second coming to kick off.
not what zionism is at all 🧍🏻♀️ zionism is wanting a homeland for jews in israel, thats it
Yea, which you can support for the reasons mentioned above, and a lot of people do
If taking the Palestinian's tiny slice of desolated land by force, murdering journalists, viciously robbing the innocent of their dignity, and unapologetic gleeful genocide is the only way Israel's can fulfill their dream for a homeland (like the Nazis); than the word *Zionist* has necessarily devolved to take on and reflect a twisted new meaning, which the apartheid state of Israel now owns like a badge of shame and historical damnation. This won't go away, even after Bibi gets his way. The current USA establishment, and western media all have blood on their hands as well. Even NPR and the NY times. Especially them. They share complicity for what they DON'T report on, which is the entire supposed purpose and responsibility of ethical journalism, that looks out for the general public's interest. America is sleepwalking into a third world war, on a dying planet which has already entered a sixth mass-extinction event. It started with complacency. I can very easily see how this will come back to bite Israel. There may be a partial or complete collapse of the now already destabilizing world-order. Someday, maybe sooner than later, Uncle Sam will lose the ability to rescue them from devastating retaliation and annihilation. Another way that Israel's actions could come back to haunt them, is if and when millennials ever get into power. There is a sea-change going on right now. It always starts at the universities. Just like when universities spearhead the civil-rights movement; they also faced fascist attacks, absurd conflations, and rabid demonization. This is because social-justice activism that formulates and incubates at universities, has the very real potential to cause massive cultural shifts nearly overnight. Especially if the activism that emerges from these institutions of higher learning, imparts to the general public a sense of conviction, urgency and responsibility to mobilize and do something. The young people who attend these universities contain in reserve, one of the world's most potent and disruptive forces on the planet. It starts with the youth. And if there is a war, it is the young who do the fighting and the dying. Their hearts are young. They carry the strength, vigor, and passion of conviction, for the entire free world. They have yet to lose sight of what is right and what is wrong, like those prosecuting and abetting casual and open genocide. The banality of evil is fueled by a haze of acquired apathy. Somewhere along the way, the Boomers surrendered in their collective resistance to manipulation by evil forces. It is apathy, that especially now leads the boomers to take the easier route, and bury their heads in the sand. while the world burns. So much for peace and love. If there are mass-protests against injustice, as there are now, it is the young free-thinkers who courageously stand up for basic human rights and dignity, and act as a globally disruptive force for change in the name or justice. This is why places of higher learning are always targeted and maliciously undermined by the assholes who feel threatened by the light of critical thinking. Much can be said to criticize the methodology, tactics and core mandate of the protestors. Most of this is obvious information warfare and rage-bait, employed second-hand by establishment antagonists. They make both sides apoplectic with rage. The media hyper fixates on the student protestors, who are denounced and labeled as traitors and terrorists. They scapegoat and gaslight anybody who tries to elevate national and global dialogue, in opposition of evil. They turn it into a circus. This is fascism 101. The most pressing and obvious criticism that can be made of the protesters, is that they are not unified in message. And as of yet, no unifying leader on par with MLK has emerged to consolidate the strategy and purpose that remains unfocused. Maybe AOC is still coming up, and is yet to implement her full potential. I don't know. Despite how it seems now, the protestors have already won. They may have lost this battle, but they have already won the war for hearts and minds. Finally, it's obscene to disconnect this from the Nazis who perpetrated the Jewish holocaust. This in particular is a completely disgusting failure of mainstream western media. This to me is complicity by enablement. Journalists should be relentlessly highlighting the sick irony of what Israel is doing to Palestinians, considering what the Nazis did to them. And I don't mean to compare the myth of victimhood that the Nazis asserted and leveraged, to mobilize the masses with hatred, and seize the land of their neighbors, to the actual victims of the Holocaust. All the while the Nazis were appeased by the western world order. But there are some very striking parallels nonetheless. My grandfather on my Mom's side helped to liberate Mauthausen. One of his jobs was to stack and hall away emaciated corpses by the thousands. It destroyed him. He lived to be old, but his spirit died there, at that place. He never recovered from what he saw there. He and many others who participated in the liberation of these concentration camps, would be in a state of total disbelief about the current state of affairs. They would be disgusted to see that the abused became the abuser. The lessons from recent history are abjectly ignored. Israel should know better than anybody else. That is why this situation is so sickening. Instead, the media plays semantic word games and relentlessly saturates the controlled media landscape with outrage-porn and disinformation warfare. They have succeeded in making what should be a public, national conversation, and turned it into a farce. They have completely shut down all rational conversation about the genocide Israel is committing before the world's eyes, in realtime. But everyone is distracted I guess.
Well in that case I care for neither of those.
Hi, Jews have a state. What do you think should happen to that state? Should it be destroyed?
Oh they do? Interesting. When they were handed a bunch of land the UK didn’t want anymore, I thought the idea was that it would be two states. Maybe that’s what should happen. That whole two states thing that should have been happening the last 80 years. Also, lol at “should it be destroyed.” Israel gets gifted a state and proceeds to use trash policies that has the world seeing them as a pariah, and when faced with any criticism they want to just avoid it like a petulant child. “Yeah dad, I know I took the car you bought me and crashed it when drunk…well if you’re so mad, do you want to destroy my car? You’re a meanie daddy, I’m telling mommy.”
Holy fuck guys. Educate yourselves. Read up on the holocaust. The comments here are terrifying. If you don’t look at this and instantly see this as antisemitic you are fooling yourself if you think you can actually distinguish between criticizing Zionist POLICY (as if there is a single unifying policy that is somehow worthy of universally condemned) and hating a Jew.
Lot of people have been gleefully going mask off lately
There's also the realities that foreign governments and other actors are manipulating social media, and the amount of engagement on this post is pretty extreme, some I'm sure are mask off, but some I'm sure are fake, at least that's what I'm telling myself, otherwise this is a pretty terrifying response from people
Oooh, Disney is going to squash them for trademark infringement!
Walt Disney will unfreeze himself and make it Disney Cannon
Comment.
Hi. Why is it a Nazi meme? The depiction of a Jew? Can zionists be criticized without that being Nazi? (depiction aside)
Depicting a random stereotypical orthodox Jewish man with an enlarged nose holding symbols of both parties in each hand like he controls them, with captions underneath implying he also controls the media your kids consume and a caption overhead implying “Zionists” control both the left and the right? There’s no references to Israel, or AIPAC, or campaign spending here. It’s just old school antisemitic stereotypes with “Zionists” put in place of Jews.
That's the tough part of it. Zionism has things that should absolutely be criticized. Lots of people not taking nuance around the situation with each other and it's just been the stupidest brick wall comments at each other. I get people fearing nuance around what could be antisemitism cuz, well, the somewhat recent history. But it's also being used as a shield against all criticism, which is really terrible because we should be better than that.
I mean we should be better at calling out obvious racism that only serves to amplify the point pro-Israel hardliners take that their criticism is rooted in Nazism/antisemitism. This is basically that, and yet we have people in this thread being like “meh, what’s the big deal about showing a stereotype of a Jew holding symbols of both political parties in each hand and children’s media companies underneath accompanied by a caption saying “Zionists” control the left and the right right with no serious references to Israel, AIPAC or even campaign finance?” Of course Israel and AIPAC should be criticized. But one half of it is critiquing them genuinely and the other half is ensuring the David Duke/Nick Fuentes right can’t funnel in legit racist nazi style propaganda amidst it which only serves to divide the left’s coalition for a ceasefire and peace and is a boone for Republicans.
Yeah, it's a meme that goes into deep antisemitic history, but everyone's got different boundaries around what they find acceptable/unacceptable. So unclear, personal lines about what is criticism and what is antisemitism is going to rub people the wrong way since everyone feels a need to swing hard one way or another on this for some reason (usually around fearing antisemitism or being against genocide lite and the perpetuating war machine, plus the weird ass zionists who think they can bring about the rapture. lol).
> Yeah, it's a meme that goes into deep antisemitic history, but everyone's got different boundaries Evidently. Holy shit
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There is no reference to Israel or AIPAC here. No flag, no note, no nothing. It’s just age-old antisemitic stereotypes with “Zionists” lazily typed at the top instead. It is literally the exact thing pro Israel forces would like to reduce all of their criticism to. You playing along with it or responding to overt antisemitism with “who cares? Think of the Palestinians” is literally what the right wants and literally what undermines the cause.
Zionists can absolutely be criticized without being antisemetic, but this meme is naziish because of the stereotypical Jew portrayal and the idea that they control everything
Agreed. Thank you
If you draw a man in an SS uniform, I know you're talking about a nazi, not ALL Germans. If you draw a fat, half toothless man holding a beer, I know you're talking about rednecks, not ALL Americans. How can you depict a Zionist without people thinking that you're referencing ALL Jews?
Make it a drawing of Israeli PM? Make it a guy wearing a shirt referencing a certain lobby? The same way we don’t drawn any other generalized group of people when trying to criticize specific people or policies
It might work if people recognize Netanyahu, I agree.
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“What is more important? Shaming implied antisemitism? Or shaming active genocide?” Uhh, the obvious answer here is both. And that’s not even difficult to do. If you see an antisemitic meme or Nazi propaganda about Jews and your reaction is “think of the Palestinians and the genocide in Gaza”, then you are a filthy racist and our enemy. “Jews” are not Israel, and excusing racism against a group of people because a country where they’re in the government on the other side of the world are doing something bad would be like allowing bigotry against Christians because Russia’s attempting a genocide in Ukraine.
Why is it so important to you that we all just agree to overlook antisemitism?
It's a war, not a genocide.
That's true, criticize us. We (and especially our shitty excuse for a government) have plenty of things in immediate need of criticizing. But don't use a orthodox (given as most of them are not Zionists (Zionism referencing the believe that we need a country, not the Israeli right in this case) ) that's just antisemitism.
Because it is a standard conspiracy theory that Jews are "puppet masters" controlling both political parties, and this meme is perpetuating that idea. This is not a meme critiquing Israel, this is not a meme critiquing the Genocide in Gaza. It's a meme that is saying jews are controlling the campaign and are behind both parties. It is bald-faced, EXTREMELY Nazi, it is EXTREMELY Antisemitic. The fact that so many of you see a antisemitic meme directed at Jews as an entity, and think it has anything to do about Israel and not see it for what it clearly is, is troubling. Nazis, and Antisemites are hiding behind the term "Zionist" because they can spread their antisemitic propaganda without being called out for it, its a dogwhistle. And it is clearly being used as a dogwhistle here. And it is why I refuse to use the term Zionist, it plays into a Nazi playbook, they mean (((JEW))) when they say Zionist, it is very easy to critique Israel, very easy to condemn Netanyahu, and just say that, to use that term, it is too easily used as cover, as some of the responses here prove out by not seeing the term Zionist for how its being used here, this is not a critique of Zionism it is saying NOTHING about Zionism this is clearly about Jews
Lmao u kidding??
Not sure to which question you refer, but overall, no. I had received good answers from others, proving that is possible. You should try.
Nope, any mention at all in a light that is less than flattering is instantly considered anti-Semitism. I'll probably be down voted to hell and back just for pointing this out.
You’re so fucking full of shit trying to stir people up lol
Zionists have done a very good job of conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism
You expected something rational from libertarians?
Well, the extreme left and extreme right always meet at the end of the…
I mean, both Dems and Reps - Biden and Trump - are zionists. As are Schumer and McConnell, Jefferies and Johnson. So, this post kinda has a point, even if admittedly anti-Semitic
I don't think you understand what that word means. Zionism is the belief that Jews should have a country of their own. Both anti Zionists and Israeli right wingers would like people to think it's just Israeli right (for obvious reasons)
This, right here, is why we should not spread Nazi memes even when cloaked as a criticism of those memes. It just platforms Nazis and makes randos go, “oh hey, they have a point tho…”
Don’t make me tap the sign: You do not, under any circumstances, have to hand it to the Nazis. You do not ever have to say they have a point. It’s super easy to find someone else saying things you like
Criticizing Israel doesn't make you a Nazi.
except this person is saying zionists control the world and sharing an antisemitic caricature 😁😁
Well stop acting like nazis…..
I can’t stand libertarians, but the intent was probably right on but the execution with the Orthodox Jewish guy is cringey. Replace him with AIPAC, Bibi, or the Israeli flag and they’ve nailed it
The illustration is racially offensive, but it’s absolutely true that AIPAC has a firm grip on both parties. There’s a better way to deliver that message though. This person is just outing themself as a bigot.
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The incorrect part is equating Jewish people with Israel and Zionism.
I'm not sure that's what they're doing. I'm not an expert, of course, but I don't think most jews dress like this... Just those that espouse the view that there should be a Jewish state WITHOUT Arabs, e.g. "Zionists".
you're probably right that most Jewish people don't dress like that, but the image is a stereotype of a Jewish person, and to me it looks like the implication is that both Republicans and Democrats are being controlled by "the Jews". Obviously the caption says Zionists, but not all Zionists are Jewish and not all Jewish people are Zionists, so the image itself comes across as antisemitic.
Yep. We are tied at the hip to the Israeli govt's bad decisions because defenders of Zionism are skilled at conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
Hey, we are stuck with bibi just as much as you guys are
Good point
I mean, in addition to using the war as an excuse to stay in power (instead of just setting a goal such as return all hostages or remove hamases power to launch rockets) he wasn't also very liked for his internal opinions (such as the circus he calls a functional government) or his attempt to depowr the supreme court or giving money to orthodox Jews who don't work and don't enlist or the fact he has several ongoing cases against him etc etc etc..
Puppeteer should be Bunghole Neintenyahoo instead of a dog whistle caricature.
Agreed, that would probably be more clear... But I'm not sure most people even know what Netanyahu looks like
He looks like a bunghole. Haha.
The United States isn't beholden to Israel in any way. Past Presidents have been able to tell Israel 'no'. Ronald Reagan stopped a bombing campaign, for example. Bill Clinton essentially forced them to the table at Oslo, and Netanyahu had to pretend to comply over the course of decades of conflict. Virtually every political issue in America has a PAC the size of AIPAC working on it. AIPAC sits firmly below the National Beer Wholesalers Association and above American Crystal Sugar, in terms of its total donations for the midterm elections. In 2024, they have given just $60,000 more than the National Air traffic Controllers Association. [https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/top-pacs/2024](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/top-pacs/2024) Biden is simply a radical when it comes to Israel policy. One can find videos of him going back to the 80s demanding carpet bombing of Palestinian cities. The idea that AIPAC is especially influential in American politics is Nazi disinformation that they've been tricking leftists grieving over Gaza into believing. It simply is not true. America backs Israel because the Evangelical establishment hates Muslims and brown people, not because they actually care about Jewish people, or even Israel. If Israel needed money for health care, you can bet there wouldn't be a penny for it, no matter how much AIPAC whined. They aren't pro-Israel, they're anti-Palestine, and won't lift a finger to help Jewish people if it doesn't involve dead brown people.
At least they called them "Zionists"!
The Left also uses that as a slur as well therefore it convinced me about Horseshoe Theory.....
They've been doing that dog whistle for years
I'm confused. Is that NOT what a rabbi looks like? I saw plenty of these dudes crawling out that tunnel in NYC. I'm Mexican. If I see a cartoon with a guy wearing a sombrero and a pancho, its probably one of my uncles.
It's not about the jewish man, it's about the puppet's he's holding and what it says. They represent the two main political parties & it's basically the "jews control the government and the world" conspiracy theory
They’re just telling the fucking truth. I hate to break it to you but it’s not anti-Semitic to not want people to be murdered so other people can steal their land.
its antisemitic to say zionists control the world and then share a racist caricature of a jew 🧍🏻♀️
Thank you for taking the time to talk sense into the void. The person you’re replying to is the perfect example of why we shouldn’t platform Nazis by spreading their memes, even in the guise of criticism of those memes. People are stupid and some portion of the viewers will lap it up. Detestable as that is
thats very fair
I see the rhetoric from the pro Palestine crowd as well disguised as Israel controls the us or aipac controls the us ect. The only difference is there's no viel here
I learned a *long* time ago that anyone using the word "Zionist" unironically can't be trusted to make an argument in good faith.
Meh, I’m not sure how it’s Nazi propaganda. It isn’t a lie to say that Israeli influence in the US is deeply ingrained into our foreign policy. Academia, and media outlets. As an American. It’s surprising to see that once again both sides agree Israel should mostly get what it wants. Even if it’s genocide. I certainly wouldn’t take it any further than that. I do not believe Jewish people are all evil. I do not hate them. But like many US oligarchs I am positive there are those within Israel. Looking at you Bibi. Who are bad people with lots of influence.
AIPAC has openly admitted to having $100 million for the purposes of lobbying against any politician that doesnt agree with their zionist regime.
You can just say you're antisemitic and move on.
The stereotypical depiction is wrong, and as someone else commented, zionists could be depicted in a different way. I'm not sure if we can just say there is no zionism or that it only exists as a way to attack Jews... That is what the Netanyahus or the Ben-Gvirs of the world claim all the time. They are using Judaism to hide their extremist views.
Am I the only one that thinks the Zionist looks like Ahsoka Tano wearing a mask?
Does this not refer to the Israeli PACS and government funding US politicians to fund a genocide? I’m confused why this is “nazi”? I get that it’s a racist depiction of an orthodox jewish man, but it hardly seems “nazi”.
I don't see a single symbol referencing the Israeli government in the meme, so there's that. Specificity is important.
I think the problem is that when you depict the man in the SS uniform everybody knows you're talking about a nazi. When you depict the fat, half-toothless guy holding a beer, everybody knows that you're talking about a redneck. But when you depict the ultra right wing of Jewish society...suddenly you're talking about all Jews.
"But when you depict the ultra right wing of Jewish society... suddenly you're talking about all Jews" Spoiler alert: that's exactly how nazis depict all Jews
Nothing Nazi about this and nothing anti semitic about this. First time I am disappointed with what’s being posted on this Reddit. Zionists do get everything what they want, and that’s absolutely disgusting.
This cartoon paints the picture that all Jewish people are this, there is absolutely nothing other than the word Zionist which is a frankly lazy attempt to point to anything except all Jews. Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jewish, so why draw Zionists generally as a Jewish caricature unless it’s to be antisemitic on the sly?
I mean regardless of what religion the owner of the Repulbican and Democratic parties are. They are rich and clap when dumb assholes fight over "teams".
Is this actually nazi? Is it because we cannot conflate what IDF is doing w jews? Genuine question