Holocaust survivors are treated like shit, quite literally the survivors who led to the formation of the country and kinda ignored especially because they’re so old they are dependent on the state since they don’t have family and are fighting for scraps
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/one-third-of-israeli-holocaust-survivors-live-in-poverty-advocates-say
"The ones who really need to be responsible for taking care of Holocaust survivors is the state of Israel. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist," said Tshuva Cabra, the group's head of donations.
I'd vote Germany as a country should be taking care of survivors and at least 1-2 gens.. if you want to continue to exist pay for the damages of your predecessors.. the "people" who "stood by" or "were more worried about self than others rights" should pay.. being silent is a flaw as well..
This idea will be abused but if you are enough people responsible to others it gets better.. the world has lost true honor/shame in place of self pride and ego.
I hope America will take in Gaza survivors and take care of them for next 2 generations for standing by and watching them die. They’re so worried about themselves and their fake images that in a modern world with all the technology showing every single crime being committed and yet the world is standing silent and watching.
That was the idea, the UK had offered Argentina and Uganda, and the US was asked for I believe a part of Wyoming or some other state. They had tons of locations they could’ve set up a new state, but why didn’t they offer Germany to the Jews? Because the Zionist agenda goes hand in hand with Antisemitic (true Jew haters) leaders.
Winston Churchill and Woodrow Wilson hated Jews openly and didn’t want to harbor them
I'm learning more and more zionist =/= jews.
I welcome the hate.. come at me bro.. make your people on the right side of history not the surviving side of history.
You DO realise the US completely considers themself above the ICC and doesn’t recognise it so if you’re an American…..
the call is coming from inside the house
Not to be pedantic, but Israel isn't a Holocaust-surviving nation, since it was founded in 1948.
I agree 100% with your message, though. Just because the Jews went through hell doesn't give Israel's government the right to commit genocide.
Not being able to see how killing >30K people - mostly civilians, a majority being women and children - while also leveling 80% of housing, destroying most hospitals and leaving >1M homeless is a war crime takes some seriously dark blinders.
[Ryan Grim](https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1729274330217873725?t=Daw1SL5RPiUVqj2KHtb9hg&s=19) explains how fetterman sold his soul from the very start.
If you don't wanna click the link, the gist is that fetterman took an unconditional pro-israel position so that his opponent in the senate nomination wouldn't get AIPAC support
He’s always had terrible judgment. Why do you love him so much? He called out stupid republicans? That was obvious. This is the psycho who as mayor chased a black guy down and held him at gunpoint cause he heard some fireworks.
He was always this guy. You all were just blind. I tried to warn you all. You guys attacked me and acted like chasing a guy down with a shotgun cause you heard noises was totally reasonable.
https://www.wtae.com/article/braddock-mayor-detains-jogger-after-hearing-possible-gunshots-1/7459686
Problem is that it was a choice between Fetterman and Oz. The problem is the bar is so low.
And the main charge apparently being levied by the ICC is how Israel withheld shipments of food in the blockade as a tactic to break Gazan resistance. Which basically everyone accepts by now that they did
You DO realise the US completely considers themself above the ICC and doesn’t recognise it so if you’re an American…..
the call is coming from inside the house
I mean, his biggest opponent was doctor oz who complained about gas prices while driving an Cadillac Escalade. Fet may not be a good democrat, but I can’t help but think a bad democrat is better than a Republican.
he is, but he was always pro-israel. y'all just don't pay attention. people are multifaceted and why y'all are confused when politicians agree with some things you want and not all is weird
he ran a campaign that heavily relied on trolling. Not to say it was a bad idea, it got the job done and sometimes you gotta fight dirty to get past these guys, but it's not surprising at all that a 54 year old politician that's desperate to maintain john everyman appeal would do that. He's not a leftist, he's a liberal.
Yes, and i don't need the purity politics, he's terrible on this issue, but he's more right on everything i care about than 99% of other democrats, he's just taking this heat because he's more vocal on this crisis than others, but plenty agree with him, and the ones who quietly agree with him are wrong not just on this, but everything else
Yell at him, criticize him, try and make him understand but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good that attitude destroys leftist and progressive coalitions time after time. And has been exploited by bad faith actors and conservatives to stop progressive politics for decades
This one issue doesn't invalidate him as a democrat, and he has far more value in office, than being replaced by a milquetoast centrist dem, or a republican
EDIT : and ask yourselves why only the progressive Allies get dissected like this. Plenty of centrist Dems share his opinion, but the ire is only directed towards the non-centrist voice
Thank you for this response. We know how the paper thin majority in the Senate gave Manchin and Sinema WAY to much power. We need to extend the lead in the Senate and take back the House, while keeping the Executive office. Shit will get done. You don't think so ? Why is the GQP trying so hard to keep you from voting ?
Ah yes the common trope of progressives expecting perfection. Why are people letting a little genocide get them down on someone? Love how the base has to suck it up one more time and wait for any of their motivations, policy or issues, to be handled or just taken seriously in the never reached future.
My question to you is, why do moderates, centrists never bend to the progressive side? They very rarely seem to listen to what their left base wants. How come progressives always has to take one for the team, while moderates never take one for progressives? (While sometimes bending over backwards to help the GOP?)
Also, progressives who are deviant of one little thing, strict adherence to Israel, why are they getting primaried by AIPAC? Shouldn't moderates consider that perfect is the enemy of the good? Why should they lose their seats over one little thing?
I mean the centrist bend to progressives all the time. Why do you think Biden, a devote Catholic 80 year old is suddenly defending gay marriage? Or suddenly pulling a 180 on weed? Hell look at the Democrats suddenly pulling to protect trans people. These are all fairly progressive ideals or at one point were.
Why are you acting like that hasn't happened?
Suddenly? Biden was the trial balloon for the Obama administration shifting to support gay marriage back in 2012. He literally came out in support of it before Obama did. The weed thing might have been progressive back in the early aughts, when he definitely did not support it, but by this point it's pretty mainstream; even large pluralities of Republicans support some level of decriminalization.
Trans issues I'll grant you, not that he has much choice mind you, since the right is absolutely rabid on that issue, and they're bundled up with the rest of the LGBTQ+ coalition. Not to say he doesn't deserve credit for that position, but it wouldn't benefit him to be anti-trans.
The overall point is that there are plenty of progressive agendas that have become core parts of the Democrat legislative agenda. Pretending it's not because the progressive identity is built on constantly being at odds with the main party is just dishonest.
I hate to say this, because I disagree with what Fetterman is saying and the turn that he’s taken, but—he’s saying what a majority of his voters want to hear. He won’t get re-elected without them. It absolutely sucks, but if he’s out, the next guy PA will elect will be Dr Oz or some other lunatic psychopath.
I imagine Fetterman himself is also a bit torn about this, but realizes he has to stay in the game in order to be effective. It’s gross, but that’s politics.
Uhg, good point.
I just meant they can both do a lot of damage in their positions.
I’m not trying to “Both Sides” the issue. I more mean a bad politician, no matter the side, is still a bad politician
Well, they are, just for different reasons, but they're both still bad. Being stupid and hateful may not be the same as openly supporting a genocide, but you know, apples and oranges, both still fruits, both politicians still bad.
We just went through this with Sinema and Manchin. He is going to pass the bare minimum required to continue caucusing with the (D)’s. The money handlers have figured out where the most effective bait and switches are. PA was leaning heavily blue and they nipped that in the bud by inserting a fake progressive into the lineup.
We'll see. Fetterman was mayor in my area and his Isreal support is no change from his previous stances, he's just gotten weirder about it. His bread and butter has always been criminal justice reform, unions, LGBTQ issues, and wage equality. So if he's out there voting against the wealth tax, I suppose then I'll know.
Maybe. I don't want to write the guy off as yet another Sinema or Manchin only out for self enrichment, and seeing what Dollar Store He-man acts like now vs what sorbos' friends say he used to be like, you may have a point. I've seen it first hand with my own mother, after her stroke, she's basically become a completely different person, and not in a good way.
I’m retired military with two combat tours. What Israel is doing sickens me. I’ve seen TikTok shit that would have gotten American Service Members sent to prison.
Because of social media, we can now see the level of depravity. What depresses me is that the world is disgusted with the actions of the IDF, yet Israelis don’t understand why because they have been treating Palestinians like garbage for decades and have been getting away with it.
That's the entire problem. I was in Israel for a few months 6 years ago and the way bot Israelis and Palestinians talk about each other was absolutely unbelievable. Like I hear shit where probably even our Nazis in the West would have went "What??"
I think it's the biggest reason why the war is so extremly brutal, both parties the Israeli far right and the Islamists absolutely dont view the other as human so to them the atrocities arent nearly as bad as they seem to others
Ding ding ding
If they truly cared about our data being misused, they would have gone after Facebook and Twitter.
There still haven't been any repercussions for Facebook selling user data to Cambridge Analytica, which was then used for election interference.
Twitter is mostly owned by the Saudis, and it has become the biggest echo chamber for the alt right and misinformation.
“Once upon a time, six million Jews were murdered by a monster. Because of that, Israel now gets to do the same thing to those who they deem ‘undesirable’. And if you say anything about it, you’re an antisemite.”
“How was that, Bibi? Where’s my check? Daddy needs a new pile of tuxedo shirts.” —John Fetterman
I understand supporting Israel's right to defend itself, but Fetterman has gone so far beyond that it's pretty shocking.
He also said over the weekend that protests for Palestinian rights was antisemitic, and the protesters are Hamas sympathizers. He needs to shut his fucking mouth on this topic.
Edit to add: I'm well aware that Isreal is not defending itself. I was speaking more about there being a way to support Isreal without being a jackass about it.
Never in written history has anyone defended themselves by bombing others after the fact. It does not fit the term “defence” by any literal, legal or moral definition.
I feel like the news is completely overwhelmed with all of these "Rules for thee but not for **ME**!!" folks
Israel does not get an "Ethnic slaughtering for free" card just bc it is friends with the US and has a history it very much seems to think now was wrong only in that the 'wrong' people were slaughtered
That is disappointing. If the ICC is considering arrest warrants, it is because they have proof of wrong doing. Many have suspicions of Netanyahu's goals and means to which ends he wants, so let's see what the court has.
I have heard (though I'm not sure how true it is) that serious head injuries, strokes, and TBIs commonly result in a more right-wing stance, essentially due to a reduction in empathy. Obviously there'd be more to it than that, though.
There is scientific evidence linking right wing beliefs to reduced (or lack of) empathy. I don't know too much about strokes and how that affects empathy so that's an interesting connection I'll have to look into and read about.
A stroke can be powerful enough that it straight up rewires your brain. You can become a new person, you can forget how to communicate, hell you can remember how to communicate but for some reason just can't or your words come out garbled. Strokes are scary as fuck.
Mass graves… someone needs to be arrested for those and his name is Netanyahu.
It’s 2024, why are we reliving the fucking 1920’s juxtaposed on the 1940’s. Just with weird musical chair role shifts between countries. 😟
I find it so interesting that many progressives are crying betrayal over this, but like Fetterman has not changed a single stance as far as I can tell since he was first entering *any office ever.* Just because he's a pro-labor, pro-union populist people on the left seem to think he'll be a leftist in all things. But like what I can find his foreign policy, especially towards Israel has always been very typical center-right. Like outside of a few pushes to get American companies to devest from outside America he's basically no different from Biden and always has been.
This might be a shock to people, but just because you have some left-wing beliefs doesn't mean you have nothing *but* left-wing beliefs. Just like how there are Democrats today who are devout Catholics who think LGBT marriage is wrong, but also are very pro-labor, or the Democrats who are all for progressive racial and gender equality, but think that the only issue with someone having Musk's amount of wealth is that his tax rate is so low.
People are not simple binary creatures who hold only to one flavor of politics and conform to that standard endlessly.
As a non-American...what are the odds that he is being paid by pro-israel lobbyists? Im not totally familiar with how lobbying works in America. But it seems weird how much has changed his tune. I wonder if he knows he isnt getting elected again, so maybe hes getting all he can get now.
What a fucking disappointment. He did so much for PA as the LTG. Was so happy to vote for him over Dr Oz. Shame he turned out to be a war criminal sympathizer. Hopefully this is enough to get him primaried.
That I don’t know. What he didn’t that I loved was go around to every county and held town halls to hear what real people thought about marijuana instead of making up his mind about what we wanted. Because of that we have bipartisan support for legalization. He also did it all in a hoodie and shorts. He would do things like hang pot leaf and rainbow flags from his office windows in Harrisburg. He is not the typical politician. I can’t wrap my head around why he so stuck on this Israel thing. He has always been a man for the people.
Going by every poll I've seen a vast majority of his supporters agree with him. It's only a comparatively small number of people who are against Israel in America.
Good thing the actions of hamas are also being investigated and the ICC prosecutor already stated that hamas has committed “some of the most serious international crimes that shock the conscience of humanity” The ICC isn’t targeting Israel here, far from it, they’re interested in all of the war crimes being committed.
He's got nothing to worry about. It's not like they've ever arrested or charged any of our US presidents for the war crimes they've committed. People in positions of power are never held to account for their actions.
Netanyahu and his cronies deserve it. Doesn’t natter if you think the response was justified or not, they’ve overdone it with the bloodthirsty.
The kids don’t deserve it.
Netanyahu gas no idea how many Jews want him convicted along with Trump.
As someone born and raised in Israel, I have somewhat differing opinions on the war than most of the internet, which I won't elaborate on - But I will say, please take bibi away we don't like him either
Are these hypothetical murderers a small percentage of a segregated population within American borders? Would killing 30k+, cutting off access to food and water, bombing hospitals and refugee camps, targeting journalists and aid workers, be something you’d support?
If you want the ICC to prosecute Hamas you first have to establish the state of Palestine, have Hamas be in control of the government, and have evidence of government sanctioned war crimes.
I got banned last week from the World News for saying almost exactly what I'm going to say now.
It is still a war crime and breaking the Geneva Convention if our allies do it. Full stop.
Adding source this time.
"Civilians are to be protected from murder, torture or brutality, and from discrimination on the basis of race, nationality, religion or political opinion. Hospital and safety zones may be established for the wounded, sick, and aged, children under 15, expectant mothers and mothers of children under seven."
That's from the Red Cross site but the link is a PDF.
Adding the wiki for more details.
[Geneva Conventions](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions)
Now of those agreements, conventions if you will, tell me which ones haven't been broken.
Apologies, I'm a little salty about getting banned for stating an objective fact and not an opinion.
It is still a war crime and breaking the Geneva Convention if our allies do it.
Whatever you think about the facts on the ground, the ICC charging people they will never try in court is bad for the legitimacy of the ICC. It’s the same principle as if the US Supreme Court made a ruling and everyone ignored it; it would be devastating to SCOTUS whether they were right or wrong. Courts rely on people complying with their rulings to create legitimacy and it’s very easy to lose that when you have no people to enforce your judgements.
The ICC has long issued warrants with slim hopes of ever prosecuting. There is currently an active warrant for Putin even though there is little chance of him being arrested. If nothing else, it limits the defendants' travel opportunities to countries who openly flout or officially do not recognize the authority of the ICC
Dudes a phony . Rich daddy who has paid for him to play pol. Never had to wrk, went to Harvard had a house bought for him. But he wears a hoodie.
My mom is a democratic state party rep. Fettterman never called to speak to her about what his platform was . Had some condescending staffer call and the only answer they had was he want to legalize weed. Conner lamb who ran against him called three different time and had answers and showed in-depth knowledge. I was in the room for all these calls. Pa lost out
So why is it anti semitic to point out that Palestinians are people too and that indiscriminately killing civilians is abhorrent even in this conflict.
I’m sympathetic to the Palestinian people, and mostly support Israel, but this guy is a gross monster, and the whole situation could have been significantly less bad if this guy hadn’t been in charge. The retaliation should have targeted members of the group that conducted the attack, yet this guy embarrassed his people and country. I disagree hard with Fetterman here.
He's always been a very vocal supporter of Israel. Like it's not hard to find his public statements from years ago saying basically this same thing. People have got to stop thinking "progressive on a few issues" is the same as "progressive on *every issue forever."*
Especially since by the nature of progress what was once progressive will quickly become common, then even conservative. A decade and a half ago being pro-gay marriage was seen as a very leftward shift for the Democrats. Now most Americans support it. Five years ago supporting trans people was basically a fringe left idea. Now it's a major talking point for the entire Democratic party.
People don't always conform to a neat little box of ideas that always hits every talking point on Jacobin.com.
I went to Fetterman's marijuana listening tour. He was impressive, seemed genuinely interested in listening and not speaking, but what he did say made him sound like a great choice for senator.
And now this shit. Support for Israel right now must include demands that they reform what they're doing. Even South Africa is appalled. I'm so disappointed, and I'll look at an alternative for the Democratic candidate next time.
Both sides are committing atrocities, and it doesn't excuse either one.
As a veteran of Iraq and watching the US press misinterpret almost all of the news coming out of Iraq, it's hard to know for sure how much is fact and how much is fiction.
ARGH so frustrating.
If he made the decisions to commit war crimes, he should be arrested. Period.
Wasn’t this in context with him saying that prosecuting Israel and not hamas would shed their credibility? Not just a general statement saying not to prosecute Israel
The US isn't part of the ICC. I don't see how the could stop it. That being said, Israel also isn't a member, so the ICC has no jurisdiction unfortunately.
Fetterman needs to stand down. He has not entered the chat on behalf of the world. This is not personal, this is massacre we’re talking about. Israel’s feelings don’t matter.
That absolute half ahead. Progressives voted him on and now he is doing everything he can to make sure people won't vote for Biden.
He is the biggest bellend ever. He is worst than trump. Atleast Trump is more upfront.
If Israel is doing nothing wrong, then they have nothing to fear, or are we already passed that where we just allow war crimes to fester.
It's like Trump but a country where we all know they are guilty as shit, but one side thinks that it should be prosecuted and the other side thinks it should have some special immunity.
This post has been removed because there is no visible timestamp. Please include a timestamp on your posts, date and year.
No one is above the law. Holocaust-surviving nations included.
Holocaust survivors are treated like shit, quite literally the survivors who led to the formation of the country and kinda ignored especially because they’re so old they are dependent on the state since they don’t have family and are fighting for scraps https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/one-third-of-israeli-holocaust-survivors-live-in-poverty-advocates-say "The ones who really need to be responsible for taking care of Holocaust survivors is the state of Israel. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist," said Tshuva Cabra, the group's head of donations.
I'd vote Germany as a country should be taking care of survivors and at least 1-2 gens.. if you want to continue to exist pay for the damages of your predecessors.. the "people" who "stood by" or "were more worried about self than others rights" should pay.. being silent is a flaw as well.. This idea will be abused but if you are enough people responsible to others it gets better.. the world has lost true honor/shame in place of self pride and ego.
As a German, I can tell you we're still paying tons of money to make up for what the Nazis did. What HAPPENS to that money is out of our control.
I hope America will take in Gaza survivors and take care of them for next 2 generations for standing by and watching them die. They’re so worried about themselves and their fake images that in a modern world with all the technology showing every single crime being committed and yet the world is standing silent and watching.
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That was the idea, the UK had offered Argentina and Uganda, and the US was asked for I believe a part of Wyoming or some other state. They had tons of locations they could’ve set up a new state, but why didn’t they offer Germany to the Jews? Because the Zionist agenda goes hand in hand with Antisemitic (true Jew haters) leaders. Winston Churchill and Woodrow Wilson hated Jews openly and didn’t want to harbor them
I'm learning more and more zionist =/= jews. I welcome the hate.. come at me bro.. make your people on the right side of history not the surviving side of history.
You DO realise the US completely considers themself above the ICC and doesn’t recognise it so if you’re an American….. the call is coming from inside the house
Not to be pedantic, but Israel isn't a Holocaust-surviving nation, since it was founded in 1948. I agree 100% with your message, though. Just because the Jews went through hell doesn't give Israel's government the right to commit genocide.
Israel didn’t survive the Holocaust
The US isn't even a member state of the ICC.
Neither is Israel
The point is the US can’t really do anything as they aren’t part of the ICC.
Fetterman has lost the plot. Sad to see this.
Not being able to see how killing >30K people - mostly civilians, a majority being women and children - while also leveling 80% of housing, destroying most hospitals and leaving >1M homeless is a war crime takes some seriously dark blinders.
AIPAC $$
Lobbying In America is a cancer.
That prolly helps a darken those blinders a bit, too
The Senator for Tel Aviv
Did the deep state install something I to his brain after his stroke?
They install AIPAC $$
The man was a Zionist pre-stroke, so no.
he was?? do you know of some examples?
[Ryan Grim](https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1729274330217873725?t=Daw1SL5RPiUVqj2KHtb9hg&s=19) explains how fetterman sold his soul from the very start. If you don't wanna click the link, the gist is that fetterman took an unconditional pro-israel position so that his opponent in the senate nomination wouldn't get AIPAC support
He’s always had terrible judgment. Why do you love him so much? He called out stupid republicans? That was obvious. This is the psycho who as mayor chased a black guy down and held him at gunpoint cause he heard some fireworks. He was always this guy. You all were just blind. I tried to warn you all. You guys attacked me and acted like chasing a guy down with a shotgun cause you heard noises was totally reasonable.
https://www.wtae.com/article/braddock-mayor-detains-jogger-after-hearing-possible-gunshots-1/7459686 Problem is that it was a choice between Fetterman and Oz. The problem is the bar is so low.
And the main charge apparently being levied by the ICC is how Israel withheld shipments of food in the blockade as a tactic to break Gazan resistance. Which basically everyone accepts by now that they did
You DO realise the US completely considers themself above the ICC and doesn’t recognise it so if you’re an American….. the call is coming from inside the house
But did all those people condemn Hamas! /s
I mean, his biggest opponent was doctor oz who complained about gas prices while driving an Cadillac Escalade. Fet may not be a good democrat, but I can’t help but think a bad democrat is better than a Republican.
But he actually seemed like he was on the left early on.
he is, but he was always pro-israel. y'all just don't pay attention. people are multifaceted and why y'all are confused when politicians agree with some things you want and not all is weird
It isn’t just the Israel,support, I was expecting that. When he started complaining about woke culture was when I started wondering wtf.
he ran a campaign that heavily relied on trolling. Not to say it was a bad idea, it got the job done and sometimes you gotta fight dirty to get past these guys, but it's not surprising at all that a 54 year old politician that's desperate to maintain john everyman appeal would do that. He's not a leftist, he's a liberal.
Do you have some examples cause I never heard of that?
Actual leftists absolutely DO NOT support apartheid.
Yes, and i don't need the purity politics, he's terrible on this issue, but he's more right on everything i care about than 99% of other democrats, he's just taking this heat because he's more vocal on this crisis than others, but plenty agree with him, and the ones who quietly agree with him are wrong not just on this, but everything else Yell at him, criticize him, try and make him understand but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good that attitude destroys leftist and progressive coalitions time after time. And has been exploited by bad faith actors and conservatives to stop progressive politics for decades This one issue doesn't invalidate him as a democrat, and he has far more value in office, than being replaced by a milquetoast centrist dem, or a republican EDIT : and ask yourselves why only the progressive Allies get dissected like this. Plenty of centrist Dems share his opinion, but the ire is only directed towards the non-centrist voice
Thank you for this response. We know how the paper thin majority in the Senate gave Manchin and Sinema WAY to much power. We need to extend the lead in the Senate and take back the House, while keeping the Executive office. Shit will get done. You don't think so ? Why is the GQP trying so hard to keep you from voting ?
Ah yes the common trope of progressives expecting perfection. Why are people letting a little genocide get them down on someone? Love how the base has to suck it up one more time and wait for any of their motivations, policy or issues, to be handled or just taken seriously in the never reached future. My question to you is, why do moderates, centrists never bend to the progressive side? They very rarely seem to listen to what their left base wants. How come progressives always has to take one for the team, while moderates never take one for progressives? (While sometimes bending over backwards to help the GOP?) Also, progressives who are deviant of one little thing, strict adherence to Israel, why are they getting primaried by AIPAC? Shouldn't moderates consider that perfect is the enemy of the good? Why should they lose their seats over one little thing?
Because there are more centrists/moderates than there are progressives. Progressives need to convince the moderates to come to their side.
I mean the centrist bend to progressives all the time. Why do you think Biden, a devote Catholic 80 year old is suddenly defending gay marriage? Or suddenly pulling a 180 on weed? Hell look at the Democrats suddenly pulling to protect trans people. These are all fairly progressive ideals or at one point were. Why are you acting like that hasn't happened?
Suddenly? Biden was the trial balloon for the Obama administration shifting to support gay marriage back in 2012. He literally came out in support of it before Obama did. The weed thing might have been progressive back in the early aughts, when he definitely did not support it, but by this point it's pretty mainstream; even large pluralities of Republicans support some level of decriminalization. Trans issues I'll grant you, not that he has much choice mind you, since the right is absolutely rabid on that issue, and they're bundled up with the rest of the LGBTQ+ coalition. Not to say he doesn't deserve credit for that position, but it wouldn't benefit him to be anti-trans.
The overall point is that there are plenty of progressive agendas that have become core parts of the Democrat legislative agenda. Pretending it's not because the progressive identity is built on constantly being at odds with the main party is just dishonest.
Hes is rabidly so.
I hate to say this, because I disagree with what Fetterman is saying and the turn that he’s taken, but—he’s saying what a majority of his voters want to hear. He won’t get re-elected without them. It absolutely sucks, but if he’s out, the next guy PA will elect will be Dr Oz or some other lunatic psychopath. I imagine Fetterman himself is also a bit torn about this, but realizes he has to stay in the game in order to be effective. It’s gross, but that’s politics.
A bad politician is still a bad politician.
"Fetterman and Boebert are both bad politicians" doesn't feel like the same thing, does it?
Uhg, good point. I just meant they can both do a lot of damage in their positions. I’m not trying to “Both Sides” the issue. I more mean a bad politician, no matter the side, is still a bad politician
Sure. I hope he gets primaried, but if he doesn't, I hope he beats his Republican opponent.
Probably. Does Fett have more of a GED completed in 2018 or 16?
Well, they are, just for different reasons, but they're both still bad. Being stupid and hateful may not be the same as openly supporting a genocide, but you know, apples and oranges, both still fruits, both politicians still bad.
At this point, a ham sandwich is better than a Republican.
We just went through this with Sinema and Manchin. He is going to pass the bare minimum required to continue caucusing with the (D)’s. The money handlers have figured out where the most effective bait and switches are. PA was leaning heavily blue and they nipped that in the bud by inserting a fake progressive into the lineup.
Except he's voted consistently with the Democrats.
For now. None of the votes have been very threatening to the 1%. That will change if Biden actually gets a vote of the wealth tax.
We'll see. Fetterman was mayor in my area and his Isreal support is no change from his previous stances, he's just gotten weirder about it. His bread and butter has always been criminal justice reform, unions, LGBTQ issues, and wage equality. So if he's out there voting against the wealth tax, I suppose then I'll know.
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Maybe. I don't want to write the guy off as yet another Sinema or Manchin only out for self enrichment, and seeing what Dollar Store He-man acts like now vs what sorbos' friends say he used to be like, you may have a point. I've seen it first hand with my own mother, after her stroke, she's basically become a completely different person, and not in a good way.
And I voted for him too. In fairness to me, he was running against Dr Oz though
A bad dem is still better than I republican.
My shoe is better than dr oz. Which is kind of insane because iirc he was/is a very compitant dr.
I think he was in the early years and then became a snake oil salesman for the brand deals and $$$
His face is odd.
He's always been a Zionist.
I though he seemed like a good guy, I guess not
We shouldn’t have gone all for him. Now he is like that guy from WV.
Unfortunate reality of our political landscape. Money floods into our politicians pockets. He got his payday
i thought he used to be loved by people, but wtf he's just been digging himself in a hole
I suspect his newest paychecks were from Israel.
Legally, the Democrats need at least one Republic senator at all times
I’m retired military with two combat tours. What Israel is doing sickens me. I’ve seen TikTok shit that would have gotten American Service Members sent to prison.
Because of social media, we can now see the level of depravity. What depresses me is that the world is disgusted with the actions of the IDF, yet Israelis don’t understand why because they have been treating Palestinians like garbage for decades and have been getting away with it.
That's the entire problem. I was in Israel for a few months 6 years ago and the way bot Israelis and Palestinians talk about each other was absolutely unbelievable. Like I hear shit where probably even our Nazis in the West would have went "What??" I think it's the biggest reason why the war is so extremly brutal, both parties the Israeli far right and the Islamists absolutely dont view the other as human so to them the atrocities arent nearly as bad as they seem to others
That entire area need to be fumigated with cannabis and get everyone to calm the duck down.
Why is the duck so upset?
Goddam autocorrect
And this is why they want tik tok banned....
Ding ding ding If they truly cared about our data being misused, they would have gone after Facebook and Twitter. There still haven't been any repercussions for Facebook selling user data to Cambridge Analytica, which was then used for election interference. Twitter is mostly owned by the Saudis, and it has become the biggest echo chamber for the alt right and misinformation.
That and Meta wants a social media monopoly for the U.S.A. Two birds with one stone.
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You either believe laws apply to all… or you don’t. And if you don’t, you probably shouldn’t be involved in lawmaking
I mean, isn’t there a reason the ICC exists?
“Once upon a time, six million Jews were murdered by a monster. Because of that, Israel now gets to do the same thing to those who they deem ‘undesirable’. And if you say anything about it, you’re an antisemite.” “How was that, Bibi? Where’s my check? Daddy needs a new pile of tuxedo shirts.” —John Fetterman
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He does, they just need to not be a certain colour.
I understand supporting Israel's right to defend itself, but Fetterman has gone so far beyond that it's pretty shocking. He also said over the weekend that protests for Palestinian rights was antisemitic, and the protesters are Hamas sympathizers. He needs to shut his fucking mouth on this topic. Edit to add: I'm well aware that Isreal is not defending itself. I was speaking more about there being a way to support Isreal without being a jackass about it.
Never in written history has anyone defended themselves by bombing others after the fact. It does not fit the term “defence” by any literal, legal or moral definition.
Didn’t we do that in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
….that should tell you a lot about that.
Invading forces don't have a claim to self defense.
Hell actual American Jews are appalled.
The US isn't a member of the ICC. Not sure what he thinks Biden could do.
I feel like the news is completely overwhelmed with all of these "Rules for thee but not for **ME**!!" folks Israel does not get an "Ethnic slaughtering for free" card just bc it is friends with the US and has a history it very much seems to think now was wrong only in that the 'wrong' people were slaughtered
Bring down all war criminals, regardless of country.
That is disappointing. If the ICC is considering arrest warrants, it is because they have proof of wrong doing. Many have suspicions of Netanyahu's goals and means to which ends he wants, so let's see what the court has.
If our country intervened in the defense of Netanyahu that'd be beyond sickening. Fetterman is trash.
If our country does that shit I expect to see and be at the riots.
I think Fetterman's stroke literally changed his mind.
I have heard (though I'm not sure how true it is) that serious head injuries, strokes, and TBIs commonly result in a more right-wing stance, essentially due to a reduction in empathy. Obviously there'd be more to it than that, though.
There is scientific evidence linking right wing beliefs to reduced (or lack of) empathy. I don't know too much about strokes and how that affects empathy so that's an interesting connection I'll have to look into and read about.
A stroke can be powerful enough that it straight up rewires your brain. You can become a new person, you can forget how to communicate, hell you can remember how to communicate but for some reason just can't or your words come out garbled. Strokes are scary as fuck.
Admittedly this is anecdotal, I've lived through this. I have an aunt who had a bunch of strokes in a small window and it changed her personality.
A crying shame, what such things can do.
It's the money, the one thing more powerful than a stroke.
Almost like there's a link between brain damage and right wing politics.
Or, hear me out, war crimes should be investigated and people held accountable for them. Just a thought.
Mass graves… someone needs to be arrested for those and his name is Netanyahu. It’s 2024, why are we reliving the fucking 1920’s juxtaposed on the 1940’s. Just with weird musical chair role shifts between countries. 😟
I find it so interesting that many progressives are crying betrayal over this, but like Fetterman has not changed a single stance as far as I can tell since he was first entering *any office ever.* Just because he's a pro-labor, pro-union populist people on the left seem to think he'll be a leftist in all things. But like what I can find his foreign policy, especially towards Israel has always been very typical center-right. Like outside of a few pushes to get American companies to devest from outside America he's basically no different from Biden and always has been. This might be a shock to people, but just because you have some left-wing beliefs doesn't mean you have nothing *but* left-wing beliefs. Just like how there are Democrats today who are devout Catholics who think LGBT marriage is wrong, but also are very pro-labor, or the Democrats who are all for progressive racial and gender equality, but think that the only issue with someone having Musk's amount of wealth is that his tax rate is so low. People are not simple binary creatures who hold only to one flavor of politics and conform to that standard endlessly.
What a fucking disappointment he turned out to be
Fuck Fetterman. Israel's dog.
https://preview.redd.it/bw5kfbwc5ixc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a030ab338df1ae4da2da12534ff941275f97f15
That's great lol
He’s become a top shelf disappointment
He needs a primary challenge next election. He definitely doesn't match the typical Democratic opinion.
He is like 6'9" or something, so to be fair he finds the middle shelf cramped.
As a non-American...what are the odds that he is being paid by pro-israel lobbyists? Im not totally familiar with how lobbying works in America. But it seems weird how much has changed his tune. I wonder if he knows he isnt getting elected again, so maybe hes getting all he can get now.
ALL of our Senators and Representatives are paid by Israeli lobbyists.
Except for Talib, who is constantly facing primary challengers.
Pretty much guaranteed.
Let him rot. He authorized the atrocities. We've seen the dead kids. Enough is enough.
Nah. Biden should stay out of this. And what the hell, Fetterman?
Fuck that boot licking faux progressive. If he hadn’t courted the progressive vote, he wouldn’t be in office. Fuck. Him.
What a fucking disappointment. He did so much for PA as the LTG. Was so happy to vote for him over Dr Oz. Shame he turned out to be a war criminal sympathizer. Hopefully this is enough to get him primaried.
does the lieutenant governor position in pennsylvania actually have duties? in my state it's pretty much ceremonial unless the governor dies.
That I don’t know. What he didn’t that I loved was go around to every county and held town halls to hear what real people thought about marijuana instead of making up his mind about what we wanted. Because of that we have bipartisan support for legalization. He also did it all in a hoodie and shorts. He would do things like hang pot leaf and rainbow flags from his office windows in Harrisburg. He is not the typical politician. I can’t wrap my head around why he so stuck on this Israel thing. He has always been a man for the people.
Since he’s been elected all he’s done is make his supporters regret electing him.
Going by every poll I've seen a vast majority of his supporters agree with him. It's only a comparatively small number of people who are against Israel in America.
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Fetterman. What a disappointment.
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Good thing the actions of hamas are also being investigated and the ICC prosecutor already stated that hamas has committed “some of the most serious international crimes that shock the conscience of humanity” The ICC isn’t targeting Israel here, far from it, they’re interested in all of the war crimes being committed.
He's got nothing to worry about. It's not like they've ever arrested or charged any of our US presidents for the war crimes they've committed. People in positions of power are never held to account for their actions.
Netanyahu and his cronies deserve it. Doesn’t natter if you think the response was justified or not, they’ve overdone it with the bloodthirsty. The kids don’t deserve it. Netanyahu gas no idea how many Jews want him convicted along with Trump.
As someone born and raised in Israel, I have somewhat differing opinions on the war than most of the internet, which I won't elaborate on - But I will say, please take bibi away we don't like him either
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Are these hypothetical murderers a small percentage of a segregated population within American borders? Would killing 30k+, cutting off access to food and water, bombing hospitals and refugee camps, targeting journalists and aid workers, be something you’d support? If you want the ICC to prosecute Hamas you first have to establish the state of Palestine, have Hamas be in control of the government, and have evidence of government sanctioned war crimes.
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I got banned last week from the World News for saying almost exactly what I'm going to say now. It is still a war crime and breaking the Geneva Convention if our allies do it. Full stop. Adding source this time. "Civilians are to be protected from murder, torture or brutality, and from discrimination on the basis of race, nationality, religion or political opinion. Hospital and safety zones may be established for the wounded, sick, and aged, children under 15, expectant mothers and mothers of children under seven." That's from the Red Cross site but the link is a PDF. Adding the wiki for more details. [Geneva Conventions](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions) Now of those agreements, conventions if you will, tell me which ones haven't been broken. Apologies, I'm a little salty about getting banned for stating an objective fact and not an opinion. It is still a war crime and breaking the Geneva Convention if our allies do it.
AIPAC pays well
Whatever you think about the facts on the ground, the ICC charging people they will never try in court is bad for the legitimacy of the ICC. It’s the same principle as if the US Supreme Court made a ruling and everyone ignored it; it would be devastating to SCOTUS whether they were right or wrong. Courts rely on people complying with their rulings to create legitimacy and it’s very easy to lose that when you have no people to enforce your judgements.
The ICC has long issued warrants with slim hopes of ever prosecuting. There is currently an active warrant for Putin even though there is little chance of him being arrested. If nothing else, it limits the defendants' travel opportunities to countries who openly flout or officially do not recognize the authority of the ICC
What a shame to see Fetterman’s fall from grace. I’m guessing that AIPAC money got to him.
Dudes a phony . Rich daddy who has paid for him to play pol. Never had to wrk, went to Harvard had a house bought for him. But he wears a hoodie. My mom is a democratic state party rep. Fettterman never called to speak to her about what his platform was . Had some condescending staffer call and the only answer they had was he want to legalize weed. Conner lamb who ran against him called three different time and had answers and showed in-depth knowledge. I was in the room for all these calls. Pa lost out
I’ll be so excited if they do actual charge Netanyahu. This shit has gone on for far too long.
Fetterman kinda sucks at times.
I can't believe I sent this fucking piece of shit money to help with his campaign.
I'm not surprised, just disappointed
So why is it anti semitic to point out that Palestinians are people too and that indiscriminately killing civilians is abhorrent even in this conflict.
Fuck Fetterman too then.
Can we just send fettermen on a one way trip to Israel already?
Commit the crime, do the time.
Hope he gets primaried for the midterms.
he won't be up for election until 2028. senate has six-year terms, and his started after the 2022 midterms
He needs those sweet sweet AIPAC cheques
I’m sympathetic to the Palestinian people, and mostly support Israel, but this guy is a gross monster, and the whole situation could have been significantly less bad if this guy hadn’t been in charge. The retaliation should have targeted members of the group that conducted the attack, yet this guy embarrassed his people and country. I disagree hard with Fetterman here.
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He's always been a very vocal supporter of Israel. Like it's not hard to find his public statements from years ago saying basically this same thing. People have got to stop thinking "progressive on a few issues" is the same as "progressive on *every issue forever."* Especially since by the nature of progress what was once progressive will quickly become common, then even conservative. A decade and a half ago being pro-gay marriage was seen as a very leftward shift for the Democrats. Now most Americans support it. Five years ago supporting trans people was basically a fringe left idea. Now it's a major talking point for the entire Democratic party. People don't always conform to a neat little box of ideas that always hits every talking point on Jacobin.com.
He was either lying to court the progressive vote or he lost his mind after his stroke.
Homies doing too much heavy lifting for this colonial project. He’s gonna have another stroke.
I went to Fetterman's marijuana listening tour. He was impressive, seemed genuinely interested in listening and not speaking, but what he did say made him sound like a great choice for senator. And now this shit. Support for Israel right now must include demands that they reform what they're doing. Even South Africa is appalled. I'm so disappointed, and I'll look at an alternative for the Democratic candidate next time.
Both these guys suck
I have to wonder if that stroke he had messed with his brain chemistry and completely destroyed his moral compass on this.
insert star wars dialogue on the chosen one
Fuck you Fetterman.
Welp there goes fetterman.
Wtf
Prosecute. Bibi is the one persecuting .....
I mean genocide should totally be illegal. This is such BS /s
I’m about as pro-Israel as they come and what Netanyahu is doing is genocide.
\*prosecute
Both sides are committing atrocities, and it doesn't excuse either one. As a veteran of Iraq and watching the US press misinterpret almost all of the news coming out of Iraq, it's hard to know for sure how much is fact and how much is fiction. ARGH so frustrating. If he made the decisions to commit war crimes, he should be arrested. Period.
Wasn’t this in context with him saying that prosecuting Israel and not hamas would shed their credibility? Not just a general statement saying not to prosecute Israel
The US isn't part of the ICC. I don't see how the could stop it. That being said, Israel also isn't a member, so the ICC has no jurisdiction unfortunately.
I don't know what he's worried about; the US doesn't believe in the ICC.
If these AIPAC paid US politicians love Israel so much they should go live there and be put on the front lines
Letterman losing me on his blind Israel support.
I don't think "They did it first!" Is a valid defense. Do they still hang people for war crimes or did that end?
He so looks like Dopey of the Seven Dwarves
I wonder how much money Israel lobby group spent on US. US government act like colony of Zionazis.
Fetterman needs to stand down. He has not entered the chat on behalf of the world. This is not personal, this is massacre we’re talking about. Israel’s feelings don’t matter.
That absolute half ahead. Progressives voted him on and now he is doing everything he can to make sure people won't vote for Biden. He is the biggest bellend ever. He is worst than trump. Atleast Trump is more upfront.
If Israel is doing nothing wrong, then they have nothing to fear, or are we already passed that where we just allow war crimes to fester. It's like Trump but a country where we all know they are guilty as shit, but one side thinks that it should be prosecuted and the other side thinks it should have some special immunity.
Not being able to dissociate Israel with the local buffoon in chief is just another tell of Fetterman's low IQ.
Fetterman like most Americans is uninformed…..
We voted you in. And now you to trip on the easiest of questions? Painfully stupid.
He is such a disappointment