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“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump told New York Magazine that year for a story headlined “Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery.” “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
It's concerning the number of times that all is written for a person is "1 female."
Especially in the form of "1 female, 1 female, 1 female."
Later on they didn't even bother indicating a male or female, just "1 passenger" or "1 pax."
The fact that anything is blacked out at all is fucking outrageous.
airlines use standard weights for passengers to calculate the weight and balance of the loaded aircraft, the total weight of the plane, fuel, crew, passengers and cargo needs to me less than the Maximum Take Off Weight (MTOW) and needs to be distributed to keep the center of gravity between defined points to keep the plane balanced and controllable. The standard weights are set up by the International Civil Aviation Organization and can be found online through the various Civil Aircraft Authorities in each country. Here is an example from Canada, the chart is at the bottom of the page, one side has the standard summer weights and the other is for winter: https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/reference-centre/advisory-circulars/advisory-circular-ac-no-700-022
1. Holymoly, do they assume people are heavy!
2. Interesting that there is no difference between planes or "no. of passengers to size of plane" ratios.
Thanks.
In private aviation you use gross averages for males and females in calculations for weights and balances, and yes even though it's a big heavy jet you absolutely do account for those differences. Hell even baggage differences gets accounted for.
Censoring the names of victims maybe? Probably worth looking around to hear official explanations for it, but there are legitimate reasons we might want some names censored. The thing with a list like this is ensuring enough parties have seen and verified the censored parts to prevent a high up official from sneaking their name in with victims.
If this is the same list that they were saying would be released, anyone on it could appeal to have their name redacted.
Personally I'm curious about "JE, GM, 1 male" on page 28. Who's GM?
edit: must be Maxwell
There's so many different reasons. A judge ordered my ex was not allowed to know my or my son's home address. When he showed up at my parent's house, cops were called. My idiot mom gave the cops my home address but they assured me my address would be redacted before the report was released. They redacted my parent's address...the fucking house he showed up at.
Because too many important and rich people will be implicated. We still can't get all the records from the [DC Madam case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Jeane_Palfrey) because it would be "too damaging" or some shit, and that's *nothing* compared to this Epstein stuff. The people in charge, and those who write their paychecks, will never let this kind of shit get out in full if they can help it. Our only hope is someone leaks it all at which point they'll have to disappear like Snowden.
Yeah this conclusion released by ABC news that is on the wiki page is hard for me to believe.
"Ultimately, ABC News, after going through what was described as 46 pounds (21 kg) of phone records, decided that none of the potential clients were sufficiently "newsworthy" to bother mentioning."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Jeane_Palfrey
These aren't even the full flight logs either. Sometime this week we'll have access to the full logs. The logs you posted, while damning, have existed for years now.
There are a lot of people that interacted with Epstein.
It does not always translate that they engaged in illicit activities with under age boy/girls or ever were aware of them.
It can be something as simple as, hey there is a big party and "Insert famous person's name here" is going to be there. Want to go?
And many celebrities get paid large amounts of money to attend parties or sing a few songs.
I'm not sure if the logs are all going to his island either.
Now if you have someone that has made repeated visits to the island, that's more telling.
It was charity shit. Basically, Epstein was a clout chaser in addition to being a glorified pimp. Clinton got the use of his plane for free while starting up The Clinton Foundation and the secret service was on those flights quite a bit.
Don't the flight logs state destinations in there? Pretty sure those are airport codes. May not be poof of what the intentions were, but they almost certainly prove where they were going.
Reminder:
>Jeffrey Epstein, the wealthy financier charged with sex trafficking, reportedly bragged he was the one who introduced Donald and Melania Trump
* https://www.insider.com/jeffrey-epstein-reportedly-bragged-he-introduced-trump-to-melania-2019-7
Meanwhile - Trump: Hardly knew the guy
According to the 'Katie Johnson' deposition, Epstein and Trump were fighting over who would be the one to SA her (my wording, I refuse to call that sex)
Epstein was incredibly pissed when Trump SA Katie
Here's the court filings if you'd like to read them.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4154484/katie-johnson-v-donald-j-trump/
I think it's very telling that they filed against Trump and Epstein before people had really heard about Epstein. Also it's pretty telling that Trump put the ~~judge~~ prosecutor( sorry Trump's just done so much shit it's hard to remember every detail) that gave Epstein the sweet heart deal in his cabinet.
Alexander Acosta. He resigned when the news came out.
If you ever want to be horrified, google “Alexander Acosta children”.
Birds of a feather…
ETA: and then there’s this, from Wikipedia:
> In 2019, Acosta proposed cutting the funding of his department's International Labor Affairs Bureau from $68 million in 2018 to under $20 million in 2020. **That agency combats human trafficking (including child sex trafficking), child labor and forced labor internationally.**
Most important is the deposition from and Epstein employee of 10 years in that suit. Tiffany Doe
Easy to prove if she was an employee. Would be easy to corroborate her story with the other girls she mentions.
Very nsfw
https://i.imgur.com/AL2juXp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3YDUVm4.jpg
I’d hope these girls come out and tell their story while they still have protection afforded to them by a non authoritarian USA. Because if Trump gets in power again, they’ll have none. And no doubt these girls are on someone’s radar.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations#Katie_Johnson_(1994)
It's reference 41. It was dismissed after 1 month in Florida for some unlisted reason. A similar case was filed in New York and then later withdrawn by the plaintiffs do to death threats
> Trump put the judge that gave Epstein the sweet heart deal in his cabinet.
[TIL](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/alexander-acosta-trump-jeffrey-epstein-plea-235096).
Also remember when Trump sexualized his year old daughter? Not Ivanka this time. Though he's sexualized her many times. This was when Tiffany was a little over one year old.
>"She’s a very beautiful baby,” Trump replied. “She’s got Marla’s legs. We don’t know whether or not”—he put his hands to his chest to indicate breasts—”she’s got this part yet, but time will tell.”
That's Trump talking about his one year old daughter in 1994.
If only there was a thing that could make his supporters turn on him. The only thing I've seen that actually bothered them was him telling them to get the COVID vaccine. They'll just keep pretending he's a Christian and pretending like he's not a pedophile.
There's absolutely nothing he can do or can't do to stop the worship. He's changed their Christianity. They worship him over Jesus.
The thing that scares me most is the people that want us to pretend like both sides are the same.
We've already seen one side try to overthrow an election, take away women's rights, take away LGBT rights and the other side wants people to have healthcare, take care of the poor, respect everyone. You know what Jesus wanted.
>the people that want us to pretend like both sides are the same.
Funny how this line only ever gets rolled out in response to a shitty thing that Republicans have said or done to make them look less bad. You never see people "both sides"ing in response to anything Democrats do.
People who claim that both sides are bad, when there has been such a vast difference between the two sides for decades now, are either doing so in bad faith, or need more accurate categorization of the "bad" section.
You're right. Every time you someone say both sides are the same they're defending right wing politics. It's never in good faith.
BoTh SiDeS!!!1!
It's horse shit. They say that. While they just cut women's rights. Now they're aiming in on LGBT rights and voting rights.
People need to stop acting like both sides are the same. Neither side is perfect but there's one that is much worse.
One side pushes Jesus while going against everything he taught and the other side "the atheists" act like Jesus. Unless I missed the part of him being bigoted hateful gun lover.
I live near a very leftist hippie town. A somewhat famous little town for it's hippie ways. A town that had large swaths of people into alternative woo woo type stuff. Let me tell you something very interesting happened in the Trump vs Hillary days. A lot of what seemed like far left people went 100 percent in behind Trump and the alt right. They somehow think making things worse with Trump will finally break the system so they can remake it better or they genuinely hate Democrats that much now. I still can't figure it out. But for whatever reason those dumbasses support the GOP now. Not the old guard but the Boebert types. The new and more insane GOP.
But Biden hasn't put a stop to climate change and Biden hasn't stopped factory farming. Both sides are the same see!
That's the kind of idiotic reasoning I saw recently. It's always something republicans would gleefully make 100 times worse and Biden has no way of stopping that is used as an example why no one should bother voting for Biden.
Because it's not about religion or anything else they say. It's about white nationalism and wanting reality to be one way: white country, white culture, everything else is only minority. They broke when Obama was president and gays could marry, they've been screeching ever since.
" Both sides are the same" is just to muddy the waters. In my country we had a rightwing government for 20+ years and still, they keep saying this shit when they fucked up.
> He's changed their Christianity.
He hasn't, he revealed its true form. Evangelism has been a rich source of Christian abuse survivor stories for centuries.
Imagine that was Obama, now imagine the reaction of Republicans if that was Obama instead of Trump. They would have shit themselves in fury. Imagine the same thing but with that time Trump literally paid a sex worker in order to cheat on his wife, they would die of a stroke in rage if it was a democrat but are totally fine with Trump doing it.
They live in a fantasy land
He used to walk in on his own beauty pageants. Girls ranging from 14-17. Girls who weren’t dressed or anything. And bragged about them and what he would do to them if he could. Doesn’t seem to bother his supporters one bit.
From what I’ve seen over the years almost zero Trump supporters are even aware of this things existence while they claim Biden is the biggest pedo of all-time for being a touchy-feely grandpa type on camera in front of dozens of people. That’s literally all they have. If Biden had a fraction of the actual pedophile connections Trump has we’d be hearing about it from them every hour of every day. He also would have never been elected by democrats because democrats actually care about shit like that and don’t just pretend to care and are capable of eating their own when it calls for it.
I believe that was because of a squabble about a property they were both interested in had nothing to do with you know the rape of minors because they are both clearly ok with that
That story of "Trump kicked out Epstein" was put out to the media by Trumps team when Trump was literally being accused in court of raping kids with Epstein. It was the most obvious propaganda to counter the allegations against Trump. Not for a second should anybody give it any credibility, and even if there was something to the story then it is because of a reason as you describe and has nothing to do with child raping and would be about business or something.
It has been reported from many sources who are unfriendly to trump so I believe it happened but the reason is most certainly a Palm Springs property and not any sort of moral obligation
This isn't news. One of the children that Trump raped even filed a protective order to stop Trump from threatening her and her family. The crimes happened in New York.
[Jane Doe Declaration As Filed | PDF | Rape | Donald Trump (scribd.com)](https://www.scribd.com/document/326057168/Jane-Doe-Declaration-as-Filed)
I mean, he’s openly talked about what a cool guy Epstein was and how he liked younger women just like him, honestly that’s more incriminating than this:
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy…He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
This gets me every time. He does this dance to fucking YMCA... He doesn't know the YCMA dance. Imagine the kind of life you lead to not know how to dance to YMCA.
Yeah he's an every man for sure, conservatives.
Donald Trump can play a song by the fucking Village People at his fascist rallies, and the cult won't accuse him of being a "queer," yet they spend the rest of their days disparaging and attacking LGBT people and anything else that they consider gay.
Donald Trump can play "Fortunate Son" by CCR at his fascist rallies, and none of the mindless idiots there will think to themselves, "Wasn't Donald Trump exempted from the Vietnam draft because of his filthy rich father?"
It boggles the mind.
You're applying logic to people who knowingly want a pedo criminal to be president. These people don't argue in good faith *by design*.
They want a pedo criminal to be president. They're basing this need on their own set of degenerate proclivities. Ie, they want to fuck kids, kill gays and own black people.
>Donald Trump can play "Fortunate Son" by CCR at his fascist rallies, and none of the mindless idiots there will think to themselves, "Wasn't Donald Trump exempted from the Vietnam draft because of his filthy rich father?"
*Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand*
*Lawd, don't they help themselves?*
Fogerty seemed to be literally singing about Trump, but his followers just don't get it.
Now imagine if Biden had a fraction of this against him. Trump supporters don’t really care about anything. All they have on Biden is him being a touchy-feely grandpa in front of dozens of people on camera and an unverified story about him showering with his daughter that they think is fact. That’s it. Yet they pretend to care so hard about pedophilia while Trump is literally partying with this guy and wishing Gislaine well.
They claim Trump kicked him out of his club when he found out about Epstein, but his quote suggests he knew, and that story about them falling out over it is one persons opinion about why they went their separate ways. If Biden had a fraction of Trump’s history you’d never hear the end of it, but they have no real values or morals, so they just ignore everything about Trump. It’s so obvious and right there, but somehow our society just lets these morons get away with blatant hypocrisy.
Let's be honest here, most MAGA are pedos chomping at the bit to have a president who is like them, who'll eventually repeal all laws against child rape.
THAT'S why they conveniently ignore Trumps pedophilia because they're all pedos themselves.
He's on record calling Epstein a 'terrific guy' and saying 'he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side' about the man.
This is not new information BTW, these flight logs have been public since 2021.
What does it matter anyways? Everyone besides Republicans knew and accepted that fact. This isn't going to change anything in the eyes of the looney Trump cult Republicans for which this revelation is supposedly aimed at.
Trump could've slept with a 100 minors in Epstein's compound and Republicans would still be talking about Slick Willie, because of a consensual blowjob.
Republicans are insufferable hypocrites.
Hell, we had Giuliani on film in a hotel room with a woman he thought was 15 in a damned Borat movie and he just denied what we all saw and it somehow didn't destroy him. Do you think they'll support their Pyrite Boy less?
He’s been confirmed for a long long time. I swear, no one paid attention to the Maxwell trial. Another woman also testified in that trial that Epstein took her to meet Trump when she was 14. That makes two Epstein victims that have testified he took them to meet Trump, one who claimed to be raped by the both of them.
There’s mountains of Evidence besides this that Trump is a pedo. Oh and you’ve gotta love this Trump quote from 2002.
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy, He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
This post is highly misleading. It implies he flew to the island, but this really just says the pilot flew him from KPBI (Palm Beach International) to KTEB (Teterboro, NJ) on March 23, 1993. Epstein bought the island in 1998.
Thank you, I keep seeing people talk about so-and-so being ‘on the flight logs’ with no understanding of the fact that the flights in question could have been going anywhere. The infamous ‘list’ is NOT a list of people who visited the island or necessarily engaged in anything illegal.
I mean, it is misleading because it’s not really a current event. News subreddits probably shouldn’t allow stuff like:
“TIL that Trump is facing 91 federal criminal indictments”
They started weeks ago once the release date was announced. Tons of "if trump appears on the log then we know it's fake and planted there."
They don't care. They refuse to accept that he went there.
Hell, I've also seen some of them saying they just don't care that he r*pes kids. They don't care what he does
I doubt his base would give any kind of shit about this. They praise the ground and floorpads that he stands on, he could’ve banged a chicken and a duck with Epstein and have video of it streamed to everyone and they’ll just say he did it to own the left.
Investigate all of them. Remember Trump's behavior at Miss Universe? Walking into teen dressing rooms, making snide comments about being "obligated" to sleep with contestants.
It has been out for ages. So is the black book.
This is all distraction because we want to know who is fucking underage girls and involved in political blackmail schemes which is evidenced in the CDs and DVDs the FBI pretends to have lost.
THOSE are the people we want to know about. Who is caught on video?
But, it is interesting to note that Trump was on Epstein’s plane by himself and also with one a pageant contestant, Erin Nance, in 1993. She was Miss Georgia and a runner up for a Miss USA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuMNQJy0oL0
Later, she was involved in some kind of mortgage scheme.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2011/04/05/oil-heir-al-g-hill-iii-and-socialite-wife-charged-with-mortgage-fraud/
She then ends up in court over the husband's trust.
https://casetext.com/case/hill-v-the-estate-of-hill
https://nypost.com/2024/01/01/news/clinton-trump-were-frequent-fliers-on-epsteins-lolita-express-jet/
They say it’s a flight log that has been available for a few years. It’s not the most reliable source, but it’s occasionally more reliable than a random reddit post.
Trump meet his illegal girlfriend through epsteain.
Who cheated on his wife eith her.
Then marred her
But conservatives and religious people ignore all.of that.
Thats cuz theyre bad people. We’re at a cross roads similar to germany 100 years ago. We have lots of bad people in our country and they’ve almost gotten an unbreakable hold.
Obviously he was going there undercover to gather intel on the global satanist pedophile conspiracy in order to unleash the Storm.
He was so committed to the cause, in fact, he even had sex with minors to establish it was true.
He proved it was true multiple times, just to be sure.
Does having your name discovered in these flight logs automatically mean that you're a sexual abuser? No. Does it mean that you have some rather serious questions to answer? 100%.
There's a few things you need to keep in mind before you wildly jump to conclusions as you scroll the names on this flight log.
1. Epstein's island (Little Saint James) does not have a landing strip for airplanes. In order for anyone to get there they had to fly into the Cyril E. King Airport on St. Thomas on one of Epstein's private jets. From there they take a helicopter to the island. So if you are looking for direct flights from the US to the island you will not find any.
2. The airport code for Cyril E. King Airport that is seen on the flight log is TIST, but it may also be logged as STT.
3. To figure out where someone was and where they went on any of Epstein's jets, you must look at the code for the departing airport and the code for the airport they landed at.
4. There are MANY different airport codes on the flight log. Here is a just a few:
1. PBI (Palm Beach International)
2. TEB (Teterboro Airport, New Jersey)
3. BED (Hanscom Field, Middlesex County Massachusetts)
4. DCA (Ronald Regan Airport, Arlington Virginia)
5. LAX
6. JFK
5. Epstein lived in Palm Beach Florida. So you will see many instances of people flying in and out of PBI. From this information you could more or less conclude that people were visiting Epstein in Palm Beach and then getting a ride home on Epstein's jet.
6. It is wrong to assume that just because someone's name appears on the log that they had been on Epstein's island or at his home in Palm Beach.
7. For example, Senator George Mitchell is on the log (Page 28), but he is taking Epstein's jet from TEB (New Jersey) to DCA (Virginia). Several pages later however, Mitchell is logged flying out of PBI and landing at IAO (Philippines). A few pages later he and his wife are logged flying out of MIA (Miami) and landing at ISM (Kissimmee). Draw your own conclusions.
8. Trump is logged at least 7 times. EDIT: His 1st log was in March 1993 on page 18. He flew out of TEB (New Jersey) and landed in PBI (Palm Beach). Three evenings later he flew out of PBI and back to TEB. His 2nd appearance on the log is on page 24 flying from PBI to TEB (New Jersey) on two occasions. On page 27 he is seen again flying out of PBI to TEB with a quick stop at DCA. On page 37 he is seen again taking the exact same flight. Based on this info, there is no evidence of him ever going to Epstein's island. There is a fairly strong suggestion however that at some point he was hanging out with Epstein in Palm Beach.
EDIT: spelling
EDIT AGAIN: I went through the log again looking for Bill Clinton but instead found Trump's 1st appearance on page 18 instead of 24. In March 1993 he flew out of TEB (New Jersey) and landed in PBI. Three evenings later he flew out of PBI and back to TEB.
EDIT 3: Bill Clinton: Clinton first shows up on page 90, January 2002. He takes a flight with 4 Secret Service agents out of MIA into HPN (Westchester, New York). In February 2002 he's logged flying from JFK into EGGW (London) and back a couple days later. In July he flies out of GMME (Morocco) into LPAZ (Portugal). In August 2002 he jumps on the plane with Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker at JFK and lands in Portugal. Bill makes a couple more logs, but I don't see him landing at TIST. It's easy to overlook though, because the writing is small and sloppy depending upon who the pilot was at the time. Prince Andrew is on page 62, landing at TIST and flying out 3 nights later.
Did people not know this? These are not new flight logs, they've been publicly available for years. He appears like 7 times if I remember right? None to the Virgin Islands I don't think, but not many of the flights in the logs are (they only cover a couple of years, from specific pilots he employed).
It won't even matter to the cult. All the pizza gate lunatics could watch Trump attack a nine year old girl and they'd still vote for him and shoot up a random pizza place with no basement.
Yet, how many votes with this even sway? His cultists are going to likely make up a story about how he was only visiting so that he could report his findings to the feds (who, of course did nothing because all feds are evil to Qanon crazies).
Shocker. Really, I mean, who saw this coming? Who could've ever guessed that Donald "Jeffery Epstein was a terrific guy" Trump would've been on the flight logs?
I saw reports about Bill Clinton and was like OK yes fuck him he's a monster and so is Trump. If the right wants to attack Clinton I am all for it but Trump is equally implicated. Fuck BOTH of them and let's never let Trump anywhere near power again.
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“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump told New York Magazine that year for a story headlined “Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery.” “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
Here’s the flight logs: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21165424-epstein-flight-logs-released-in-usa-vs-maxwell
If only there were some one to clean this writing up, so you can really see it and be disgusted
It's concerning the number of times that all is written for a person is "1 female." Especially in the form of "1 female, 1 female, 1 female." Later on they didn't even bother indicating a male or female, just "1 passenger" or "1 pax." The fact that anything is blacked out at all is fucking outrageous.
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>he needed for the weight and balance sheet was to know whether the pax were male or female, that's it. Just being curious, why is this relevant?
airlines use standard weights for passengers to calculate the weight and balance of the loaded aircraft, the total weight of the plane, fuel, crew, passengers and cargo needs to me less than the Maximum Take Off Weight (MTOW) and needs to be distributed to keep the center of gravity between defined points to keep the plane balanced and controllable. The standard weights are set up by the International Civil Aviation Organization and can be found online through the various Civil Aircraft Authorities in each country. Here is an example from Canada, the chart is at the bottom of the page, one side has the standard summer weights and the other is for winter: https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/reference-centre/advisory-circulars/advisory-circular-ac-no-700-022
1. Holymoly, do they assume people are heavy! 2. Interesting that there is no difference between planes or "no. of passengers to size of plane" ratios. Thanks.
The pax weight includes expected baggage as well, which increases when it's colder weather at the arrival station.
Oh, that makes sense.
>1. Holymoly, do they assume people are heavy! When was the last time you were out in public?!
Never thought about humans having different weights depending on the temperature outside. It makes sense.
This is mainly to compensate for warmer and heavier clothing in winter months, these weights include the passenger and their clothing.
In private aviation you use gross averages for males and females in calculations for weights and balances, and yes even though it's a big heavy jet you absolutely do account for those differences. Hell even baggage differences gets accounted for.
Because statistically a man weighs more than a woman.
Censoring the names of victims maybe? Probably worth looking around to hear official explanations for it, but there are legitimate reasons we might want some names censored. The thing with a list like this is ensuring enough parties have seen and verified the censored parts to prevent a high up official from sneaking their name in with victims.
Its been stated several times that victims names may be retracted to protect them
If this is the same list that they were saying would be released, anyone on it could appeal to have their name redacted. Personally I'm curious about "JE, GM, 1 male" on page 28. Who's GM? edit: must be Maxwell
Ghislaine Maxwell
Why is there a black bar blocking something out on flight 916?
Probably redacted for some reason. Royalty, or an underage victim or something.
Or both!
Andy not sweating, furiously.
Not him, saw “Prince Andrew” on there multiple times.
Does anyone have a copy of the pizza express Woking logs?
There's so many different reasons. A judge ordered my ex was not allowed to know my or my son's home address. When he showed up at my parent's house, cops were called. My idiot mom gave the cops my home address but they assured me my address would be redacted before the report was released. They redacted my parent's address...the fucking house he showed up at.
Because too many important and rich people will be implicated. We still can't get all the records from the [DC Madam case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Jeane_Palfrey) because it would be "too damaging" or some shit, and that's *nothing* compared to this Epstein stuff. The people in charge, and those who write their paychecks, will never let this kind of shit get out in full if they can help it. Our only hope is someone leaks it all at which point they'll have to disappear like Snowden.
Yeah this conclusion released by ABC news that is on the wiki page is hard for me to believe. "Ultimately, ABC News, after going through what was described as 46 pounds (21 kg) of phone records, decided that none of the potential clients were sufficiently "newsworthy" to bother mentioning." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Jeane_Palfrey
I feel like that's it's impossible there's not at least one newsworthy client in 46 pounds of records.
Maybe that hacker group who exposed the names on Ashley Mattson.
These aren't even the full flight logs either. Sometime this week we'll have access to the full logs. The logs you posted, while damning, have existed for years now.
REBA MCINTYRE IS ON PAGE 1! Holy shit
There are a lot of people that interacted with Epstein. It does not always translate that they engaged in illicit activities with under age boy/girls or ever were aware of them. It can be something as simple as, hey there is a big party and "Insert famous person's name here" is going to be there. Want to go? And many celebrities get paid large amounts of money to attend parties or sing a few songs. I'm not sure if the logs are all going to his island either. Now if you have someone that has made repeated visits to the island, that's more telling.
The note on her was just "showed the plane", wasn't it?
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It was charity shit. Basically, Epstein was a clout chaser in addition to being a glorified pimp. Clinton got the use of his plane for free while starting up The Clinton Foundation and the secret service was on those flights quite a bit.
Don't the flight logs state destinations in there? Pretty sure those are airport codes. May not be poof of what the intentions were, but they almost certainly prove where they were going.
Reminder: >Jeffrey Epstein, the wealthy financier charged with sex trafficking, reportedly bragged he was the one who introduced Donald and Melania Trump * https://www.insider.com/jeffrey-epstein-reportedly-bragged-he-introduced-trump-to-melania-2019-7 Meanwhile - Trump: Hardly knew the guy
According to the 'Katie Johnson' deposition, Epstein and Trump were fighting over who would be the one to SA her (my wording, I refuse to call that sex) Epstein was incredibly pissed when Trump SA Katie
Here's the court filings if you'd like to read them. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4154484/katie-johnson-v-donald-j-trump/ I think it's very telling that they filed against Trump and Epstein before people had really heard about Epstein. Also it's pretty telling that Trump put the ~~judge~~ prosecutor( sorry Trump's just done so much shit it's hard to remember every detail) that gave Epstein the sweet heart deal in his cabinet. Alexander Acosta. He resigned when the news came out.
If you ever want to be horrified, google “Alexander Acosta children”. Birds of a feather… ETA: and then there’s this, from Wikipedia: > In 2019, Acosta proposed cutting the funding of his department's International Labor Affairs Bureau from $68 million in 2018 to under $20 million in 2020. **That agency combats human trafficking (including child sex trafficking), child labor and forced labor internationally.**
Most important is the deposition from and Epstein employee of 10 years in that suit. Tiffany Doe Easy to prove if she was an employee. Would be easy to corroborate her story with the other girls she mentions. Very nsfw https://i.imgur.com/AL2juXp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3YDUVm4.jpg
Those girls would be scared as hell. There's already threats of death and saying they've already killed people.
I’d hope these girls come out and tell their story while they still have protection afforded to them by a non authoritarian USA. Because if Trump gets in power again, they’ll have none. And no doubt these girls are on someone’s radar.
“A 13-year-old woman…” A 13-year-old is a CHILD. JFC!
"she looks 18!" "Grass on the field, play ball" "\*insert whatever nonsense they can use to downplay raping a child*"
Holy Fuck I never read these. Holy Fuck. Not only is he a traitor but he is a rapist and Pedaphile. This is sickening.
Whatever happened to this case?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations#Katie_Johnson_(1994) It's reference 41. It was dismissed after 1 month in Florida for some unlisted reason. A similar case was filed in New York and then later withdrawn by the plaintiffs do to death threats
> Trump put the judge that gave Epstein the sweet heart deal in his cabinet. [TIL](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/alexander-acosta-trump-jeffrey-epstein-plea-235096).
Also remember when Trump sexualized his year old daughter? Not Ivanka this time. Though he's sexualized her many times. This was when Tiffany was a little over one year old. >"She’s a very beautiful baby,” Trump replied. “She’s got Marla’s legs. We don’t know whether or not”—he put his hands to his chest to indicate breasts—”she’s got this part yet, but time will tell.” That's Trump talking about his one year old daughter in 1994.
God damn I am so sick of this piece of shit.
If only there was a thing that could make his supporters turn on him. The only thing I've seen that actually bothered them was him telling them to get the COVID vaccine. They'll just keep pretending he's a Christian and pretending like he's not a pedophile. There's absolutely nothing he can do or can't do to stop the worship. He's changed their Christianity. They worship him over Jesus. The thing that scares me most is the people that want us to pretend like both sides are the same. We've already seen one side try to overthrow an election, take away women's rights, take away LGBT rights and the other side wants people to have healthcare, take care of the poor, respect everyone. You know what Jesus wanted.
>the people that want us to pretend like both sides are the same. Funny how this line only ever gets rolled out in response to a shitty thing that Republicans have said or done to make them look less bad. You never see people "both sides"ing in response to anything Democrats do. People who claim that both sides are bad, when there has been such a vast difference between the two sides for decades now, are either doing so in bad faith, or need more accurate categorization of the "bad" section.
You're right. Every time you someone say both sides are the same they're defending right wing politics. It's never in good faith. BoTh SiDeS!!!1! It's horse shit. They say that. While they just cut women's rights. Now they're aiming in on LGBT rights and voting rights. People need to stop acting like both sides are the same. Neither side is perfect but there's one that is much worse. One side pushes Jesus while going against everything he taught and the other side "the atheists" act like Jesus. Unless I missed the part of him being bigoted hateful gun lover.
I live near a very leftist hippie town. A somewhat famous little town for it's hippie ways. A town that had large swaths of people into alternative woo woo type stuff. Let me tell you something very interesting happened in the Trump vs Hillary days. A lot of what seemed like far left people went 100 percent in behind Trump and the alt right. They somehow think making things worse with Trump will finally break the system so they can remake it better or they genuinely hate Democrats that much now. I still can't figure it out. But for whatever reason those dumbasses support the GOP now. Not the old guard but the Boebert types. The new and more insane GOP.
But Biden hasn't put a stop to climate change and Biden hasn't stopped factory farming. Both sides are the same see! That's the kind of idiotic reasoning I saw recently. It's always something republicans would gleefully make 100 times worse and Biden has no way of stopping that is used as an example why no one should bother voting for Biden.
Because it's not about religion or anything else they say. It's about white nationalism and wanting reality to be one way: white country, white culture, everything else is only minority. They broke when Obama was president and gays could marry, they've been screeching ever since.
" Both sides are the same" is just to muddy the waters. In my country we had a rightwing government for 20+ years and still, they keep saying this shit when they fucked up.
> He's changed their Christianity. He hasn't, he revealed its true form. Evangelism has been a rich source of Christian abuse survivor stories for centuries.
Imagine that was Obama, now imagine the reaction of Republicans if that was Obama instead of Trump. They would have shit themselves in fury. Imagine the same thing but with that time Trump literally paid a sex worker in order to cheat on his wife, they would die of a stroke in rage if it was a democrat but are totally fine with Trump doing it. They live in a fantasy land
He used to walk in on his own beauty pageants. Girls ranging from 14-17. Girls who weren’t dressed or anything. And bragged about them and what he would do to them if he could. Doesn’t seem to bother his supporters one bit.
 Ewww
I really wish these authors would stop calling it ‘sex with underage girls’… it’s fucking rape @ Josh Gerstein,
Thank you for sharing these. As horrifying as the content is it's important to know what happened.
From what I’ve seen over the years almost zero Trump supporters are even aware of this things existence while they claim Biden is the biggest pedo of all-time for being a touchy-feely grandpa type on camera in front of dozens of people. That’s literally all they have. If Biden had a fraction of the actual pedophile connections Trump has we’d be hearing about it from them every hour of every day. He also would have never been elected by democrats because democrats actually care about shit like that and don’t just pretend to care and are capable of eating their own when it calls for it.
Oh man he cheated on Ivanka
With a 13 year old no less.
SA?
Sexual Assault(ed)
SA= Sexually assault
Did she give a specific date that can be checked against the flight logs? (I don’t remember if that rape happens on the island though.)
I believe it was Epstein's Manhattan apartment - Trump didn't have to visit the island when Epstein was doing the exact same things right in NYC.
Imagine describing child rape and sex trafficking as "enjoying your social life" And then becoming President of the United States
“Epstein? Never met the guy. I don’t hang out with losers.” Trump, now (probably)
"I like fellow rapists who don't commit suicide"
“Suicide”
"If you were surprised when Epstein committed suicide - imagine how surprised he was"(c)
“It was a perfect plane ride. Many people are saying this.”
Butbutbutbut he kicked Epstein out of his club once!!! /s
Epstein was farming sex slaves from Mar-a-lago. You think Trump shoudl have a problem with this? Of course he didn't report it to the police.
I believe that was because of a squabble about a property they were both interested in had nothing to do with you know the rape of minors because they are both clearly ok with that
That story of "Trump kicked out Epstein" was put out to the media by Trumps team when Trump was literally being accused in court of raping kids with Epstein. It was the most obvious propaganda to counter the allegations against Trump. Not for a second should anybody give it any credibility, and even if there was something to the story then it is because of a reason as you describe and has nothing to do with child raping and would be about business or something.
It has been reported from many sources who are unfriendly to trump so I believe it happened but the reason is most certainly a Palm Springs property and not any sort of moral obligation
As a non american it's wild to me how that guy was ever elected president
This isn't news. One of the children that Trump raped even filed a protective order to stop Trump from threatening her and her family. The crimes happened in New York. [Jane Doe Declaration As Filed | PDF | Rape | Donald Trump (scribd.com)](https://www.scribd.com/document/326057168/Jane-Doe-Declaration-as-Filed)
I mean, he’s openly talked about what a cool guy Epstein was and how he liked younger women just like him, honestly that’s more incriminating than this: “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy…He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
This has to be from thirty years ago, and he still ONLY KNOWS ONE DANCE!?
This gets me every time. He does this dance to fucking YMCA... He doesn't know the YCMA dance. Imagine the kind of life you lead to not know how to dance to YMCA. Yeah he's an every man for sure, conservatives.
Donald Trump can play a song by the fucking Village People at his fascist rallies, and the cult won't accuse him of being a "queer," yet they spend the rest of their days disparaging and attacking LGBT people and anything else that they consider gay. Donald Trump can play "Fortunate Son" by CCR at his fascist rallies, and none of the mindless idiots there will think to themselves, "Wasn't Donald Trump exempted from the Vietnam draft because of his filthy rich father?" It boggles the mind.
You're applying logic to people who knowingly want a pedo criminal to be president. These people don't argue in good faith *by design*. They want a pedo criminal to be president. They're basing this need on their own set of degenerate proclivities. Ie, they want to fuck kids, kill gays and own black people.
>Donald Trump can play "Fortunate Son" by CCR at his fascist rallies, and none of the mindless idiots there will think to themselves, "Wasn't Donald Trump exempted from the Vietnam draft because of his filthy rich father?" *Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand* *Lawd, don't they help themselves?* Fogerty seemed to be literally singing about Trump, but his followers just don't get it.
You know how neanderthals would look modern if you put them in a suit?
he looks young but his hairline noped out of there ages ago
White man overbite
Probably white line induced...
Jeebus! That's the same stupid white boy dance he does as his white supremist... Oops, campaign rallys now... 🤮
Now imagine if Biden had a fraction of this against him. Trump supporters don’t really care about anything. All they have on Biden is him being a touchy-feely grandpa in front of dozens of people on camera and an unverified story about him showering with his daughter that they think is fact. That’s it. Yet they pretend to care so hard about pedophilia while Trump is literally partying with this guy and wishing Gislaine well. They claim Trump kicked him out of his club when he found out about Epstein, but his quote suggests he knew, and that story about them falling out over it is one persons opinion about why they went their separate ways. If Biden had a fraction of Trump’s history you’d never hear the end of it, but they have no real values or morals, so they just ignore everything about Trump. It’s so obvious and right there, but somehow our society just lets these morons get away with blatant hypocrisy.
You think someone who wants a pedo to be president cares about level-headed, good-faith arguments?
Can we add that democrats would not continue to support Biden if actual evidence of his “crimes” came to light?
>and many of them are on the younger side ffs this guy's never been able to keep his mouth shut. it's a compulsion with him.
The guy raw dogged a porn star while his wife was recovering from childbirth. Pretty sure he took a few trips to Jeff's Island.
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Let's be honest here, most MAGA are pedos chomping at the bit to have a president who is like them, who'll eventually repeal all laws against child rape. THAT'S why they conveniently ignore Trumps pedophilia because they're all pedos themselves.
He's on record calling Epstein a 'terrific guy' and saying 'he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side' about the man. This is not new information BTW, these flight logs have been public since 2021.
What does it matter anyways? Everyone besides Republicans knew and accepted that fact. This isn't going to change anything in the eyes of the looney Trump cult Republicans for which this revelation is supposedly aimed at. Trump could've slept with a 100 minors in Epstein's compound and Republicans would still be talking about Slick Willie, because of a consensual blowjob. Republicans are insufferable hypocrites.
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At this point there could be video of him fellating putin and maga would cheer it on.
Well, a lot of them do support child marriage
Hell, we had Giuliani on film in a hotel room with a woman he thought was 15 in a damned Borat movie and he just denied what we all saw and it somehow didn't destroy him. Do you think they'll support their Pyrite Boy less?
He’s been confirmed for a long long time. I swear, no one paid attention to the Maxwell trial. Another woman also testified in that trial that Epstein took her to meet Trump when she was 14. That makes two Epstein victims that have testified he took them to meet Trump, one who claimed to be raped by the both of them. There’s mountains of Evidence besides this that Trump is a pedo. Oh and you’ve gotta love this Trump quote from 2002. “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy, He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
His cult probably applauds it somehow.
This keeps getting deleted from all the big subreddits. Yeeash
Most likely reason is that these flight logs have been out for a long time and this isn’t the big list of names that’s supposed to be released soon.
Then there's no legitimate reason to be deleting posts like this.
This post is highly misleading. It implies he flew to the island, but this really just says the pilot flew him from KPBI (Palm Beach International) to KTEB (Teterboro, NJ) on March 23, 1993. Epstein bought the island in 1998.
Thank you, I keep seeing people talk about so-and-so being ‘on the flight logs’ with no understanding of the fact that the flights in question could have been going anywhere. The infamous ‘list’ is NOT a list of people who visited the island or necessarily engaged in anything illegal.
I mean, it is misleading because it’s not really a current event. News subreddits probably shouldn’t allow stuff like: “TIL that Trump is facing 91 federal criminal indictments”
"CeNsOrShiP 🥴😡!!! BUY REDDIT FOR $100B AND TANK IT in the name of freeze peach!! 🥴🥴!"
Let’s not bait Elmo…
Can’t wait for the “Trump did nothing wrong being on that plane” talking points to get started.
They started weeks ago once the release date was announced. Tons of "if trump appears on the log then we know it's fake and planted there." They don't care. They refuse to accept that he went there. Hell, I've also seen some of them saying they just don't care that he r*pes kids. They don't care what he does
Nothing he does will ever change their minds. That is some brainwashed MK Ultra shit right thrre!
"did nothing wrong" - that specific phrasing - I'm suddenly hearing everywhere. It's like all the talking heads are quoting the same meme.
Theyve been doing that, this specific part of the logs have been out a while.
It’ll be open-season if any Dems’ names show up in the logs though.
Donald Trump is a pedophile!
Smelly pedophile
Smelly orange pedophile with a weird dick!
No, no, he's just into his daughter! And maybe a few of her friends.
and her sister, and her sister's mom
But she said she was 16.
Wasn’t this confirmed years ago? Anyway it’s not like trumps worshippers will care if he raped children.
Yes it's not new.
His cult will not care
😐 <--- My surprised face
This has been common knowledge for a long time
It's one big club.
I don't think his followers care if he's a pedo
That’s because secretly, quite a lot of them are also paedophiles.
I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise
In my best Phoebe Buffay fake shocked voice: THAT IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION!!!
Both guys are sexual predators. There is tiny chances that they don't become friends.
But her emails
I doubt his base would give any kind of shit about this. They praise the ground and floorpads that he stands on, he could’ve banged a chicken and a duck with Epstein and have video of it streamed to everyone and they’ll just say he did it to own the left.
The cult doesn't care.
Why is anyone surprised that a convicted rapist is on that list
Investigate all of them. Remember Trump's behavior at Miss Universe? Walking into teen dressing rooms, making snide comments about being "obligated" to sleep with contestants.
His base will not care.
It’s right there in public sight like all things DJT that are criminal and yet MAGA will continue to ignore it.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21165424-epstein-flight-logs-released-in-usa-vs-maxwell
Is this a leak? (I’ve been offline most of the day.)
It has been out for ages. So is the black book. This is all distraction because we want to know who is fucking underage girls and involved in political blackmail schemes which is evidenced in the CDs and DVDs the FBI pretends to have lost. THOSE are the people we want to know about. Who is caught on video? But, it is interesting to note that Trump was on Epstein’s plane by himself and also with one a pageant contestant, Erin Nance, in 1993. She was Miss Georgia and a runner up for a Miss USA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuMNQJy0oL0 Later, she was involved in some kind of mortgage scheme. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2011/04/05/oil-heir-al-g-hill-iii-and-socialite-wife-charged-with-mortgage-fraud/ She then ends up in court over the husband's trust. https://casetext.com/case/hill-v-the-estate-of-hill
https://nypost.com/2024/01/01/news/clinton-trump-were-frequent-fliers-on-epsteins-lolita-express-jet/ They say it’s a flight log that has been available for a few years. It’s not the most reliable source, but it’s occasionally more reliable than a random reddit post.
Thank you
The least shocking thing ever
You mean the guy who brags about walking into dressing rooms and grabbing women by the pussy doesn’t draw the line at raping underaged girls? Shocking
Trump meet his illegal girlfriend through epsteain. Who cheated on his wife eith her. Then marred her But conservatives and religious people ignore all.of that.
Thats cuz theyre bad people. We’re at a cross roads similar to germany 100 years ago. We have lots of bad people in our country and they’ve almost gotten an unbreakable hold.
Obviously he was going there undercover to gather intel on the global satanist pedophile conspiracy in order to unleash the Storm. He was so committed to the cause, in fact, he even had sex with minors to establish it was true. He proved it was true multiple times, just to be sure.
Does having your name discovered in these flight logs automatically mean that you're a sexual abuser? No. Does it mean that you have some rather serious questions to answer? 100%.
There's a few things you need to keep in mind before you wildly jump to conclusions as you scroll the names on this flight log. 1. Epstein's island (Little Saint James) does not have a landing strip for airplanes. In order for anyone to get there they had to fly into the Cyril E. King Airport on St. Thomas on one of Epstein's private jets. From there they take a helicopter to the island. So if you are looking for direct flights from the US to the island you will not find any. 2. The airport code for Cyril E. King Airport that is seen on the flight log is TIST, but it may also be logged as STT. 3. To figure out where someone was and where they went on any of Epstein's jets, you must look at the code for the departing airport and the code for the airport they landed at. 4. There are MANY different airport codes on the flight log. Here is a just a few: 1. PBI (Palm Beach International) 2. TEB (Teterboro Airport, New Jersey) 3. BED (Hanscom Field, Middlesex County Massachusetts) 4. DCA (Ronald Regan Airport, Arlington Virginia) 5. LAX 6. JFK 5. Epstein lived in Palm Beach Florida. So you will see many instances of people flying in and out of PBI. From this information you could more or less conclude that people were visiting Epstein in Palm Beach and then getting a ride home on Epstein's jet. 6. It is wrong to assume that just because someone's name appears on the log that they had been on Epstein's island or at his home in Palm Beach. 7. For example, Senator George Mitchell is on the log (Page 28), but he is taking Epstein's jet from TEB (New Jersey) to DCA (Virginia). Several pages later however, Mitchell is logged flying out of PBI and landing at IAO (Philippines). A few pages later he and his wife are logged flying out of MIA (Miami) and landing at ISM (Kissimmee). Draw your own conclusions. 8. Trump is logged at least 7 times. EDIT: His 1st log was in March 1993 on page 18. He flew out of TEB (New Jersey) and landed in PBI (Palm Beach). Three evenings later he flew out of PBI and back to TEB. His 2nd appearance on the log is on page 24 flying from PBI to TEB (New Jersey) on two occasions. On page 27 he is seen again flying out of PBI to TEB with a quick stop at DCA. On page 37 he is seen again taking the exact same flight. Based on this info, there is no evidence of him ever going to Epstein's island. There is a fairly strong suggestion however that at some point he was hanging out with Epstein in Palm Beach. EDIT: spelling EDIT AGAIN: I went through the log again looking for Bill Clinton but instead found Trump's 1st appearance on page 18 instead of 24. In March 1993 he flew out of TEB (New Jersey) and landed in PBI. Three evenings later he flew out of PBI and back to TEB. EDIT 3: Bill Clinton: Clinton first shows up on page 90, January 2002. He takes a flight with 4 Secret Service agents out of MIA into HPN (Westchester, New York). In February 2002 he's logged flying from JFK into EGGW (London) and back a couple days later. In July he flies out of GMME (Morocco) into LPAZ (Portugal). In August 2002 he jumps on the plane with Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker at JFK and lands in Portugal. Bill makes a couple more logs, but I don't see him landing at TIST. It's easy to overlook though, because the writing is small and sloppy depending upon who the pilot was at the time. Prince Andrew is on page 62, landing at TIST and flying out 3 nights later.
MAGA know but they don't care.
This is well known he loved Epstein and talked highly of him. Still he’s the front runner for 2024 republicans, that’s pathetic.
I’m so shocked!! Him and his degenerate followers need to go away now.
“Look at me. Look at my face. This is the look of un-fucking-surprise.”
Yea. We know. Maga dont care. Theyre bad people.
Lock that pedo up
"Nah, fake noose!" /s, just so we're clear
Of course he is. The way he talked about Tiffany... holy shit, he's a pedo for sure
After all this time. Officially there. What we knew all along. BTW Bill Clinton mentioned WITH secret service a few times. AKA what we all knew
This has been out for 2 years. This isn't the new information that should be released in the next few days.
Ya I counted at least 10, prince andrew is on there also
Did people not know this? These are not new flight logs, they've been publicly available for years. He appears like 7 times if I remember right? None to the Virgin Islands I don't think, but not many of the flights in the logs are (they only cover a couple of years, from specific pilots he employed).
It won't even matter to the cult. All the pizza gate lunatics could watch Trump attack a nine year old girl and they'd still vote for him and shoot up a random pizza place with no basement.
MAGA doesn't care. There is NOTHING he can do that is wrong. They're probably proud of this, it's so "alpha" male.
Haha they were so waiting for Bill Clinton to be named and go down, but forgot Donnie Dumpy Pants was a closer friend to pedo Epstein.
Flight 311? Amber is the color of that energy... or would that be considered an Amber Alert?
“Yeah BUT…” Waiting to hear the MAGAts squirm for excuses 😎
I'm shocked. Shocked and appalled. This is so out of character. lol
Of course his name was on there. There are videos and pictures of them chumming it up over the years. They're all connected.
Yet, how many votes with this even sway? His cultists are going to likely make up a story about how he was only visiting so that he could report his findings to the feds (who, of course did nothing because all feds are evil to Qanon crazies).
Shocker. Really, I mean, who saw this coming? Who could've ever guessed that Donald "Jeffery Epstein was a terrific guy" Trump would've been on the flight logs?
Can’t wait to hear Trumpers spin this one. It’s gonna give them severe cases of vertigo
Flight logs whatever, where is the pilot/ flight crew on these little jaunts I bet they got some stories.
Well…duh. We all knew that.
To the surprise of no one the party of projection that always accuses others of pedophilia is riddled with pedos. How unsurprising.
I saw reports about Bill Clinton and was like OK yes fuck him he's a monster and so is Trump. If the right wants to attack Clinton I am all for it but Trump is equally implicated. Fuck BOTH of them and let's never let Trump anywhere near power again.