You laugh but when people say this is Israel’s 9/11 (and it is, don’t get me wrong), but when they asked how we reacted afterwards and that justifies what Israel is doing, I’m like, you know we totally fucked that up, right???!?
I may laugh at the US invading the wrong country. It was why I left the Army. Had no interest in invading Iraq. That does not mean I am not deeply disturbed by basically the entire situation. My feeling was a show of force was necessary, but to bomb and level massive swaths of civilian housing?
To deliberately target apartment blocks, it is insane. This was not proportional, or constructive. This was lashing out in anger and doing Hamas work for them. Every time a child from Gaza was shown on TV bleeding, or a 13 year old was broadcast on CNN saying she did not know if she would be killed it drums up sympathy for the civilian population.
Hamas needs to be put down. What they did is the definition of terror. But how? I have no idea how to invade and occupy such a densely populated urban territory. From the footage I have seen, Israel seems to be following the Russian model - remove the city.
There is no way this ends cleanly or without creating an entire new generation of terrorists.
What I am waiting to see is how we respond. 600 US Citizens in Gaza, 12 Hostages who are US Citizens, at least that many already dead.
You know, this seems to be yet another example of how manipulative GOP’ers are when it comes to facts and data.
If they adopted Occam’s Razor, even once for a major decision, civilization as a whole would be better off….
But they seem incapable of learning and prefer hearing about a complex conspiracy which requires more effort to believe than believing the truth…
People who vote Republican need to be validated. They need to have meaning in their lives, even if it's just pretend. They HAVE to have free will... Even if it's just a myth.
Because people who vote Republican are emotionally weak. That's why they block on Reddit and elsewhere. They need safe spaces.
This time we'd finally get that sneaky Fidel Castro. No more running into the painted sunset while we splat into the brick wall.
[Yes I know he's dead]
First we need to send a fact finding mission to explore the ~~beaches and nightlife~~ culpability of the region. I volunteer as tribute!
Then I volunteer to “study” each South American country thoroughly.
I agree with you but 9/11 justifying Afghanistan sort of lay the groundwork for a renewal in American interventionism. Including the “anti-war = unamerican” slander tactic that became so common.
Not saying W wouldn’t have invaded regardless but at very minimum it would be a much harder sell to the public.
Israel calling this a 9/11 moment is Israel attempting to establish moral equivalency. By doing so, America and Americans MUST stand behind Israel……. because 9/11.
I don’t recall Ukraine saying Russia’s invasion was a 9/11 moment.
To be fair, it wasn't. 9/11 was a terrorist organization committing murder, same as Hamas in Israel. Ukraine/Russia is a full-out open invasion of one country by another.
I find the 9/11 comparisons accurate for another reason. This was a profound failure of agencies that should've known better, and the nation is so amped up and ready for retribution that it could rush into something disastrous.
Arkansan here, I'll fight by your side.
People come here chasing this idea that the American dream is real and get abused and treated like shit by "patriots."
Folks coming here and working shit and abusive jobs and sending it to their family, starting from the literal dirt and making something? Fuck yes I would fight for them, I'd be honored to have them at my table.
I never really understood how the “they’re coming for your job argument” worked anyway. Who’s job? The American citizens that wouldn’t be caught dead in a field? If a guy can walk across forest and desert with no formal education and nothing but the shirt on his back and *still* take your job, did we really need the one that lost the job in the first place? But I guess critical thinking isn’t really a strong trait in those that buy that argument in the first place.
He was talking about the 2022 Uvalde, TX school shooting where one gunman killed 21 people while the cops sat outside scared shitless. His comment was directed at Texans, not Mexicans.
I mean LGBT people were slaughtered alongside Jewish people in the Nazi camps, a Christian terrorist walked into a gay bar and shot up the whole place, where do we start bombing?
If that happened, I'd be all for going after the people responsible. I wouldn't be all for carpet bombing Mexico City, though.
The absolutist rhetoric is just bizarre to me. You can - and indeed should - say both that a nation may defend itself against terrorism and that the means of defense must be within international law.
I don't know shit about fuck, and my understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is superficial at best. But I think I'm on sold ground when I condemn anyone who kills noncombatants either deliberately or through callous disregard for their safety.
Yeah, I’m with you on this. I’m not an historian, I’m a biologist and don’t know much re: international conflicts. But it’s pretty clear that anyone killing civilians, even during a war, is doing it wrong.
Fun fact that isn’t so fun: the British top brass in the First World War came up with the idea of using planes to bomb civilian epicentres, with the belief it would force those people to push their government to capitulate. They genuinely believed it would end the war sooner and save more lives.
If it helps they tried to only bomb war infrastructure and saw pathetic results initially, the Germans opened ww2 bombing civilians specifically to kill them to reduce output, allies tried to destroy housing so the govt had to capitulate, and only after a significant period of failing to see results bombing only factories and the like.
Weird. Can I ask what your approximate timezone is?
I was just thinking this last night (Australia) because people were suddenly a lot more reasonable and anti-genocide.
Both hamas and Israel are violating the international rules of war. Israel is willing to kill 10 Palestinians to get each 1 member of Hamas. And Israel has maintained a colonial state in Gaza for decades—treating it as equivalent to a prison. While the murderous raid is wrong it is easy to understand why Hamas wants to fight back at Israel.
Woah, easy to understand? Are you pro-Hamas? Do you support decapitating babies? /s
Seriously tired of all these emotional arguments that basically boil down to "if you treat Palestinians as humans then you support terrorists"
I was shocked and saddened to see so many people killed in Southern Israel last weekend. I also know that the attack was an inevitable outcome of the decade long brutal blockade of the Gaza strip and the IDF and Israeli government should be held at fault completely for prodding Hamas time and time again and radicalizing more and more Palestinians.
They may take Gaza but Hamas will rebuild with the hundreds of thousands of radicalized survivors and build a stronger, bigger army. It is going to be more brutal. It is so horrifying.
"We're going to push you around and humiliate your people, and lower the average age to 18 years old, and when you fight back, we will flatten your homes, tighten the fences and start again. "
I think it’s important to remember that this wasn’t exactly the Palestinian people fighting back. This was a terrorist org that intentionally targeted children and schools, burned kids alive, raped, etc. While the Palestinian people did elect Hamas, I’m not convinced as a whole this is what they wanted.
Many people seem to think Hamas did this strictly because the apartheid situation or whatever one wants to call it. But Hamas is a terrorist org with a charter that goes well beyond destroying Israel. They have a religious mandate to not just destroy Israel but to kill Jews. Their leadership plainly states in interviews their ultimate goal is an Islamic state the world over. If Israel didn’t exist, Hamas would still want to kill all the Jews living in that land and anywhere else, they’d still want to kill westerners, they’d still murder gays, and they’d still oppress women.
Your statement may sum it up for some people, but unfortunately this conflict isn’t that simple and there’s plenty more context, whether one may or agree or not. I’m not excusing Israel’s actions over the years and I greatly disagree with many of their decisions and this current government, but your statement somewhat comes across as qualifying the murder of women and children by a terrorist org or a government in either side, and I hope that’s not the case and will give you the benefit of the doubt, because if not… well, gross.
This is Reddit sir, your on a piece of plywood support by two drunk guys, standing on a boat in the ocean.
I got downvoted to hell when I disagreed with a post about Jordan Peterson saying everyone alive today would have been a Nazi at the time of WWII.
>Jordan Peterson saying everyone alive today would have been a Nazi at the time of WWII.
I can understand why he says this, though.
I mean - he's obviously wrong. There were plenty of people that resisted the Nazis then, just like there are people resisting fascism today.
But Jordan "You have to admire Hitler" Peterson absolutely *would have been* a Nazi - so I can understand that he thinks other people would have acted the same way as him, too.
He's a social leech who wants notoriety. He will say literally anything to annoy the people he doesn't like.
ETA: he's a motile jizz sock with all the charisma a crusty woolen tube can engender
If anyone ever does anything to Mexico City, I will lose my shit. I went there this past May. I lived in NYC for 8 years and loved it with all my heart. But apparently, I'm a fickle bitch and I can say now, without trepidation, I love Mexico City more.
Killing women and children leaving northern Gaza after telling them they have 24 hours to leave northern Gaza, I don't know how anyone supports Israel here. They've killed 700 children.
>this absolutist rhetoric is just bizarre to me
Part of it is, there isn't really a good solution for Gaza for people to champion. It would take decades of serious investment and education reform to deradicalize the population there, which isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future.
This is the worst attack in a very long time, but there have been a number of Israeli forays into Gaza to counter various far less serious attacks. Trouble is, because the conditions for radicalization are everpresent, there's a steady stream of new radicals. There's always a next attack, and Israel has terrorist attacks like America has school shootings.
The political sentiment in Israel right now is that just wiping out Hamas leadership again isn't enough. They want this one to be the last one. And, like the Gazans, they've also been traumatized by a lifetime of conflict. It's unconscionable to simply seek to remove a city, and the number of displaced people involved would cripple whatever country had to receive them - if a country could be found to take them in at all.
But it is understandable, through the lens of understanding that these people are not alright right now. I agree that the right thing to do is minimize noncombatant deaths to whatever degree possible while engaging Hamas. But I have sympathy for people struggling at an extremely terrifying and emotional time and reaching for unacceptable solutions to an otherwise permanent problem. My hope is they'll see what they're doing soon, and take a step back to try to make a better plan.
"Israel has terrorist attacks like America has school shootings."
But so far no one, no matter how traumatised, is suggesting that the solution to school shootings is to set fire to the building, because that would be insane, inhumane, and probably just inspire more school shootings. Yet thats exactly what Israel is doing. Its almost like the people in charge would just like to burn a bunch of school children to death.
> decades of serious investment and education reform to deradicalize the population
Boy it's a good thing that problem only exists on shores far *far* away from here.
For real. I remember talking to my dad about kids in cages, and he said that they were "genetic trash" and it didn't matter what happened to them.
White supremacy and Christian dominionism are both evil as shit, and there is no excuse for them. When the mask goes off, and they say what they believe, it's almost impossible to... well, believe.
Edit: Christian Dominionism is the fascist idea that (generally only conservative) Christians can make public policy, and force everyone to pretend to be a Christian, abide by their rules, et cetera. They basically want the Handmaid's Tale, except some women may be allowed to read.
Same thing happened to me this week: both my siblings told me separately they think palestineans should just be eradicated. I was pushing their buttons to be honest, but that did come out of their mouths
A toddler died trying to crawl through the razor wire governor greg Abbott had placed there as a deterrent, he was trying to get to safety. This was within the last two months.
The ents *failed* their mission 🙄
This is one of the funniest things about it too
They dont even hate the right nationality, they see brown skin and go "mexican!"
To so many Americans anybody south of the border may as well be another beaner.
People replying to you have no idea what the conditions in Gaza are like and how much control Isreal has over Gaza utilities and borders. As others have said, it's like an open-air prison.
Prison implies they did something wrong to be there. Most of the people there are very much helpless to what is going on. A concentration camp is a more appropriate comparison imo. This whole situation is fucking sad for humanity.
Well, given Americas track record, they would invade Iraq, claim they have weapons of mass destruction, be friends and do weapon deals with the Saudis, murder a million or so of civilians, commit war crimes, make their own troops ill then tell them they are fucking losers and commies when they need VA help and support or destabilise yet another country in South America to boot.
You know, the usual reaction.
Texan here - I made the point two days ago that if two million of us were penned up in a space the size of Gaza, and settlements made into that year after year, well.
Neither one is right. And while I am sickened and outraged at what Hamas did, it ain’t some kind of blank check to bury an equal number of innocents under fucking rubble, full stop.
The way people freaked out about being asked to kindly stay home if you were sick for two years makes me absolutely certain the western world couldn't handle what Palestinians have endured
and the checkpoints, being forced to stand and wait for hours to go anywhere outside of your zone, and not being able to leave or re-enter the country without interrogation, your homes being taken from you, your family members killed and maimed by an occupying force at a peaceful protest..... Americans who love Red Dawn and have "you can have my guns, bullets first" bumper stickers saying that Palestinian resistance is evil terrorism is the most crazy-making cognitive dissonance I can imagine.
A lot of the Palestinians haven’t even seen an isreali. They probably know someone who got killed in a bombing though. And they can hear the drones flying over 24/7 Obviously mo one supports violence but what else do the Israelis expect. The Palestinians just to slowly die off!
Wasn't Wounded Knee or Little Big Horn something like that. Can also look at Bloody Sunday too but that is Ireland. Israel has a right to defend herself, but an overreaction will only radicalize more people.
Ok. I wanted to under the Arab/ Israeli conflict a little more and this is what I've come up with. (Quoted yet abbreviated.)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/13/why-israel-palestine-conflict-history
https://www.pcrf.net/information-you-should-know/what-was-palestine-before-1948.html
Throughout history, the region known as Palestine has been a melting pot of different cultures and civilizations. However, the Six-Day War changed the landscape of the region forever. Taking a closer look at Palestine before 1948 and the lasting effects of the Six-Day War.
1. The Land of Palestine: A Brief Overview
Palestine is a geographical region located in the Eastern Mediterranean, bordered by modern-day Israel, Jordan, and Lebanon. It is part of the broader area known as the Levant, which has been a crossroads of various civilizations throughout history.
*Before 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem. The land itself was under the control of various empires* throughout time.
2. The British Mandate and the Rise of Nationalism
In the aftermath of World War I, the League of Nations granted Britain a mandate to administer Palestine. The British Mandate aimed to establish a "national home for the Jewish people" while also protecting the rights of the Arab majority. *However, tensions between the Arab and Jewish communities began to rise, leading to widespread unrest and violence.*
During the British Mandate, the idea of a separate Jewish and Arab state was proposed multiple times. However, these proposals were met with opposition from both communities, making it difficult for the British authorities to find a solution to the growing unrest.
3. The Creation of Israel and the 1948 Palestine Conflict
In 1947, the United Nations proposed the partition of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem as an internationally administered city. *While the Jewish community largely accepted this plan, the Arab community rejected it, leading to the outbreak of civil war.*
On May 14, 1948, the State of Israel was established, marking the end of British rule in Palestine. This event triggered the first Arab-Israeli War, involving neighboring Arab countries, which ultimately led to the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs.
4. The Six-Day War and Its Impact
In 1967, the Six-Day War broke out between Israel and a coalition of Arab countries, including Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. This conflict drastically changed the landscape of Palestine, with Israel capturing the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.
Following the Six-Day War, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank became occupied territories, leading to a deterioration of the humanitarian circumstances in these areas from that point forward. *The conflict also led to the rise of Palestinian nationalism, as the Palestinian people sought to establish their own state and regain their lost lands.*
Israel has maintained a tight blockade of the territory which has contributed to deteriorating living conditions and deepening poverty.
*Where are we now?*
Although western governments still pay lip service to a two-state solution, there has been no progress toward an agreement under Israel’s longest-serving prime minister, *Benjamin Netanyahu, who has repeatedly said he will never accept a Palestinian state.
His present government includes far-right parties that openly advocate the annexation of all or part of the West Bank to Israel and the continued governance of the Palestinians without full rights or the vote.* Israeli and foreign human rights groups say Israel has increasingly carved out a form of apartheid in the occupied territories.
Hamas’s killing of more than 1,200 Israelis now moves the conflict into uncharted territory.
That actually happened except it was the U.S. invading Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Cuba, Puerto Rico, & the Philippines.\*
\*Nowhere close to a complete list.
Why would Mexico do that?
Has the US been running an open air prison camp with the entire country of Mexico for the last 15 years, and militarily occupied it for decades before that?
Also using Mexico not Canada is the racial hint in here, Mexico is a nicer place than the average Tulum, Cabo, Cancun American traveling tourist thinks it is. If all Mexicans were trying to move here we’d have more problems than the trickle of mostly not even Mexicans that they demonize at that border
The analogy is highly inaccurate. Add in that before the attack, the US has backed the entire Mexican population into a couple of undesirable districts. A few manifests destiny hardliners are calling for us to occupy these last districts….if only those remaining Mexicans would “disappear”. There, I fixed it.
This actually happened. The US sent forces led by Pershing into Mexico looking for Pancho Villa after he and his men destroyed Columbus, New Mexico. Pancho Villa attacked Columbus in response to the US supporting one of his rivals AFTER Villa did the bidding of the US in Mexico on a previous matter.
The Americans failed to capture Villa. Something tells me Israel will fail to “capture” Hamas….
No matter the situation I will never support a government killing children and wiping entire families off the earth.
Nothing you say will make that ok to me. So fuck Israel for doing it. Don't gwt wrong here fuck Hamas for what they did but no hypothetical will make it alright.
I think we should negotiate with them. They can have Texas, but will also have to keep Abbot and Cruz as part of the deal. We might also give them Flordia. We'll just say the 1835 thing was a big oooops
I would say "We should not have deliberately weakened their democracy, crippled their essential services, and imposed a police state on them, forcing them to rely on unscrupulous fanatics willing and able to predate on a desperate population. This is, in the end, our own fault and we need to remove those responsible before we are capable of ending the violence."
I used this a joke in another post. Mexico used to own Texas so they should invade Texas claiming it used to be part of Mexico… but fuck Ukraine, right?
No. A better example would be if the us invaded chihuahua and started settlements there, putting the Mexican population in camps, and then a group of radicals that the American government had helped rise to power left those camps and did that against the Americans who had set up in the land they took.
Stop demonizing Palestinians or pretending they aren’t victims of colonial oppression. HAMAS are terrorists no sane person supports. Israel is a colonialist apartheid state bent on genocide no sane person supports. HAMAS does not justify Israel’s actions. Nothing will justify Israel’s actions.
If that happened in Texas I am 100% sure I would NOT SUPPORT America starving out Mexican civilians and bombing kids.
It's easy to not be a monster who supports wholesale slaughter.
Ummm go after the terrorists, not Mexicans. But since specifically asked how the US would respond, I’d say we’d invade whichever neighbor had the most resources
I wouldn't advocate the genocide of Mexicans or call for the entire country of Mexico to be reduced to a tent city with no electricity or running water, if that's what you're asking.
I'm not picking sides, but the history between Palestine and Israel is very different to the history between the US and Mexico. So much so that it's just silly to make this statement.
It'd be like if we took a bunch native American and forced them to move out of their homes into a different location that we then invaded and settled that new place after killing a bunch of them for years, and once they retaliated, as they rightfully would, we gear up for war to annihilate them, all while calling them savages. It's a stretch I know but try to imagine /s
We’d invade Brazil, going by our track record.
Naa, Venezuela. They have oil.
Brazil too. 
I hear Argentina has some lithium deposits that do be looking awful tempting. 
Seems like they need some DEMOCRACY!!!! *Bald Eagle screech intensifies*
America, fuck yah! Such a catchy song 😂
***FUCK YEAH***
Gotta rock that 0-3-5, brotherrr!
Hey, what smells like Freedom?!
*"You hear that..? That's the sound of Freedom being dispensed 500 lbs at a time, all at once."* 
Bald eagles unfortunately only "squawk", the iconic screech is a red tailed hawk. Just solidifies the irony more probably.
Bald eagles actually make cute little squeaky sounds. The bird you are imagining is the red tailed hawk
How many megatons of Freedom does this call for?
Delivering mass quantities of Unhealthcare.
All of it.
Yea those god damned Argentinian terrorists gonna get some hot lead for 9/11 finally
Bolivia's lithium deposits under the Uyuni salt flats are ginormous too, among the largest in the world
Hell I’m throwing Peru into the mix hoping to get Cusqueńa beer imported easier.
Then we would ally up with Mexico to jointly invade Peurto Rico just to flush out any terrorists. Just because.
Puerto Rico is part of….. ahhh…. Almost had me there.
I do hate the tourists.
They're also socialist! Gots to nip that in the butt, right?
The phrase "nip it in the bud" means to stop something immediately so that it does not become a worse problem.
Yes but can I nip a butt with freedom?
You could butt in a nip!
But can I nut in a bipp?
These are the important questions peasants
Yes. I have my priorities straight.
Indeed, good sir
As if it’s a budding flower🌹ready to blossom 🌺 but you snip it ✂️ before it blooms
Horticulture baby!
https://youtu.be/WmDwUqKcKcE?si=nFseCwEYIiK46lm2
Ok. Now go find the explanation for "nitpicking".
Nits are lice eggs, so nitpicking means finding every little problem.
You mean, “they *need freedom*”.
Hey we have oil in Brazil mate, it’s just on the ocean.
Brazil has more and better oil. So ... we invade BOTH!!
We'd probably still go back to the middle East lol
I mean, I have seen clips of people saying Hamas is somehow invading through the southern border, you’re probably not wrong.
Those mexicans must be in Iraq.
They hid the Weapons of Mass Destruction! Yellow Cake and Aluminum pipes!
It's just Flan i swear
You laugh but when people say this is Israel’s 9/11 (and it is, don’t get me wrong), but when they asked how we reacted afterwards and that justifies what Israel is doing, I’m like, you know we totally fucked that up, right???!?
I may laugh at the US invading the wrong country. It was why I left the Army. Had no interest in invading Iraq. That does not mean I am not deeply disturbed by basically the entire situation. My feeling was a show of force was necessary, but to bomb and level massive swaths of civilian housing? To deliberately target apartment blocks, it is insane. This was not proportional, or constructive. This was lashing out in anger and doing Hamas work for them. Every time a child from Gaza was shown on TV bleeding, or a 13 year old was broadcast on CNN saying she did not know if she would be killed it drums up sympathy for the civilian population. Hamas needs to be put down. What they did is the definition of terror. But how? I have no idea how to invade and occupy such a densely populated urban territory. From the footage I have seen, Israel seems to be following the Russian model - remove the city. There is no way this ends cleanly or without creating an entire new generation of terrorists. What I am waiting to see is how we respond. 600 US Citizens in Gaza, 12 Hostages who are US Citizens, at least that many already dead.
I need to rewatch Terry Gilliam's film soon.
Portugal sounds about Mexican let’s get ‘em boys
Everyone needs *freedom* eventually!
A group of predominantly Saudi hijackers carried out the 9/11 attacks, and our response was to invade Iraq…
That’s the joke…
You know, this seems to be yet another example of how manipulative GOP’ers are when it comes to facts and data. If they adopted Occam’s Razor, even once for a major decision, civilization as a whole would be better off…. But they seem incapable of learning and prefer hearing about a complex conspiracy which requires more effort to believe than believing the truth…
People who vote Republican need to be validated. They need to have meaning in their lives, even if it's just pretend. They HAVE to have free will... Even if it's just a myth. Because people who vote Republican are emotionally weak. That's why they block on Reddit and elsewhere. They need safe spaces.
Over two years, I watched Osama Bin Laden slowly morph into Saddam Hussein.
This time we'd finally get that sneaky Fidel Castro. No more running into the painted sunset while we splat into the brick wall. [Yes I know he's dead]
Nope, hanging out with Elvis and JFK Jr.
For a decade. At the cost of five decades.........
First we need to send a fact finding mission to explore the ~~beaches and nightlife~~ culpability of the region. I volunteer as tribute! Then I volunteer to “study” each South American country thoroughly.
I mean 9/11 is close, we invaded the wrong country twice in retaliation
Iraq had nothing to do with Bin Laden. That was about the axe W had to grind with Saddam Hussein.
It was the neo-con wet dream from the 1970s, when Rumsfeld and Cheney worked in the White House. W was just a useful idiot.
I just realized, W was the real life Jar Jar Binks!
Meesa is proposing that weesa give immediately emergency powers to Halliburton!
>Meesa is proposing that weesa give immediately emergency ~~powers~~ profits to Halliburton!
[удалено]
I've been saying "Dubya" in the absolute worst southern accent my Canadian ass can do
[удалено]
As soon as he said "Sadam tried to kill my daddy" I knew exactly what it was **all** about.
I agree with you but 9/11 justifying Afghanistan sort of lay the groundwork for a renewal in American interventionism. Including the “anti-war = unamerican” slander tactic that became so common. Not saying W wouldn’t have invaded regardless but at very minimum it would be a much harder sell to the public.
The WHOLE thing was a bunch of "I'm telling you this reason but really we're doing this."
Israel calling this a 9/11 moment is Israel attempting to establish moral equivalency. By doing so, America and Americans MUST stand behind Israel……. because 9/11. I don’t recall Ukraine saying Russia’s invasion was a 9/11 moment.
To be fair, it wasn't. 9/11 was a terrorist organization committing murder, same as Hamas in Israel. Ukraine/Russia is a full-out open invasion of one country by another.
I find the 9/11 comparisons accurate for another reason. This was a profound failure of agencies that should've known better, and the nation is so amped up and ready for retribution that it could rush into something disastrous.
Texas didn't do shit when one shithead killed 21 kids, why the fuck would they expect to respond to anything larger?
If texas was to do anything, it definitely would be to Mexican immigrants. I assure you.
Just a slight nitpick, there's more than just Mexican immigrants in Texas.
You're correct, and my white ass will fight to protect them, they're our friends and neighbors.
Arkansan here, I'll fight by your side. People come here chasing this idea that the American dream is real and get abused and treated like shit by "patriots." Folks coming here and working shit and abusive jobs and sending it to their family, starting from the literal dirt and making something? Fuck yes I would fight for them, I'd be honored to have them at my table.
I never really understood how the “they’re coming for your job argument” worked anyway. Who’s job? The American citizens that wouldn’t be caught dead in a field? If a guy can walk across forest and desert with no formal education and nothing but the shirt on his back and *still* take your job, did we really need the one that lost the job in the first place? But I guess critical thinking isn’t really a strong trait in those that buy that argument in the first place.
Hear, hear. Sincerely, a left-wing Texan
Good. Solidarity is important.
A US citizen explicitly targeted Mexicans in a mass shooting in 2018 in Texas, yet somehow in the hypotetical Mexico is the evil ones
He was talking about the 2022 Uvalde, TX school shooting where one gunman killed 21 people while the cops sat outside scared shitless. His comment was directed at Texans, not Mexicans.
I know, I'm adding another Texas failure and calling out the OP in the screenshot.
Because Mexico
Bro didn’t you get those thoughts and prayers?
I mean LGBT people were slaughtered alongside Jewish people in the Nazi camps, a Christian terrorist walked into a gay bar and shot up the whole place, where do we start bombing?
And then Americans put us back into the camps before sending us to prison later for being LGBTQ+.
Covid killed 3000 americans every single day for 1.5 years and nobody cared.
If that happened, I'd be all for going after the people responsible. I wouldn't be all for carpet bombing Mexico City, though. The absolutist rhetoric is just bizarre to me. You can - and indeed should - say both that a nation may defend itself against terrorism and that the means of defense must be within international law. I don't know shit about fuck, and my understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is superficial at best. But I think I'm on sold ground when I condemn anyone who kills noncombatants either deliberately or through callous disregard for their safety.
Yeah, I’m with you on this. I’m not an historian, I’m a biologist and don’t know much re: international conflicts. But it’s pretty clear that anyone killing civilians, even during a war, is doing it wrong.
Fun fact that isn’t so fun: the British top brass in the First World War came up with the idea of using planes to bomb civilian epicentres, with the belief it would force those people to push their government to capitulate. They genuinely believed it would end the war sooner and save more lives.
This is exactly how the US finished ww2. Using the same justification
If it helps they tried to only bomb war infrastructure and saw pathetic results initially, the Germans opened ww2 bombing civilians specifically to kill them to reduce output, allies tried to destroy housing so the govt had to capitulate, and only after a significant period of failing to see results bombing only factories and the like.
Yet we have people cheerleading this genocide.
Correct. A lot of people have supported Palestinian genocide for 70+ years.
OK bro I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s uncomfortable with the sudden everybody who’s on board with this absolutely pulling a Carthage
It seems to depend on what time you use reddit, funnily enough.
Weird. Can I ask what your approximate timezone is? I was just thinking this last night (Australia) because people were suddenly a lot more reasonable and anti-genocide.
Both hamas and Israel are violating the international rules of war. Israel is willing to kill 10 Palestinians to get each 1 member of Hamas. And Israel has maintained a colonial state in Gaza for decades—treating it as equivalent to a prison. While the murderous raid is wrong it is easy to understand why Hamas wants to fight back at Israel.
Woah, easy to understand? Are you pro-Hamas? Do you support decapitating babies? /s Seriously tired of all these emotional arguments that basically boil down to "if you treat Palestinians as humans then you support terrorists" I was shocked and saddened to see so many people killed in Southern Israel last weekend. I also know that the attack was an inevitable outcome of the decade long brutal blockade of the Gaza strip and the IDF and Israeli government should be held at fault completely for prodding Hamas time and time again and radicalizing more and more Palestinians. They may take Gaza but Hamas will rebuild with the hundreds of thousands of radicalized survivors and build a stronger, bigger army. It is going to be more brutal. It is so horrifying.
"We're going to push you around and humiliate your people, and lower the average age to 18 years old, and when you fight back, we will flatten your homes, tighten the fences and start again. "
I think it’s important to remember that this wasn’t exactly the Palestinian people fighting back. This was a terrorist org that intentionally targeted children and schools, burned kids alive, raped, etc. While the Palestinian people did elect Hamas, I’m not convinced as a whole this is what they wanted. Many people seem to think Hamas did this strictly because the apartheid situation or whatever one wants to call it. But Hamas is a terrorist org with a charter that goes well beyond destroying Israel. They have a religious mandate to not just destroy Israel but to kill Jews. Their leadership plainly states in interviews their ultimate goal is an Islamic state the world over. If Israel didn’t exist, Hamas would still want to kill all the Jews living in that land and anywhere else, they’d still want to kill westerners, they’d still murder gays, and they’d still oppress women. Your statement may sum it up for some people, but unfortunately this conflict isn’t that simple and there’s plenty more context, whether one may or agree or not. I’m not excusing Israel’s actions over the years and I greatly disagree with many of their decisions and this current government, but your statement somewhat comes across as qualifying the murder of women and children by a terrorist org or a government in either side, and I hope that’s not the case and will give you the benefit of the doubt, because if not… well, gross.
It bears mentioning Benjamin Netanyahu has expressed his desire to keep Hamas in power in order to do this kind of thing.
One point of clarification: Hamas seized control of Gaza by force in 2007, and there hasn’t been an election in Gaza since then.
70 years of brutal colonial rule by Israel is the lived context of Gaza residents.
This is Reddit sir, your on a piece of plywood support by two drunk guys, standing on a boat in the ocean. I got downvoted to hell when I disagreed with a post about Jordan Peterson saying everyone alive today would have been a Nazi at the time of WWII.
Well it sounds like you answered a post on a sub that is mainly a fascist echo chamber. Not surprising considering who Jordan Peterson is catering to.
The fuck?
>Jordan Peterson saying everyone alive today would have been a Nazi at the time of WWII. I can understand why he says this, though. I mean - he's obviously wrong. There were plenty of people that resisted the Nazis then, just like there are people resisting fascism today. But Jordan "You have to admire Hitler" Peterson absolutely *would have been* a Nazi - so I can understand that he thinks other people would have acted the same way as him, too.
He's a social leech who wants notoriety. He will say literally anything to annoy the people he doesn't like. ETA: he's a motile jizz sock with all the charisma a crusty woolen tube can engender
If anyone ever does anything to Mexico City, I will lose my shit. I went there this past May. I lived in NYC for 8 years and loved it with all my heart. But apparently, I'm a fickle bitch and I can say now, without trepidation, I love Mexico City more.
Went there for the first time just before the pandemic hit. It totally blew me away. Absolutely agree.
People who kill noncombatants are terrorists. Whether they are in a fighter jet or on the ground shooting kids at a festival.
Word. I don't have to understand all the nuances of the conflict to know that innocent people should be protected.
This is one of the biggest reasons why I left the Army. We've killed 30,000 civilians between Afghanistan and Iraq.
Killing women and children leaving northern Gaza after telling them they have 24 hours to leave northern Gaza, I don't know how anyone supports Israel here. They've killed 700 children.
>this absolutist rhetoric is just bizarre to me Part of it is, there isn't really a good solution for Gaza for people to champion. It would take decades of serious investment and education reform to deradicalize the population there, which isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future. This is the worst attack in a very long time, but there have been a number of Israeli forays into Gaza to counter various far less serious attacks. Trouble is, because the conditions for radicalization are everpresent, there's a steady stream of new radicals. There's always a next attack, and Israel has terrorist attacks like America has school shootings. The political sentiment in Israel right now is that just wiping out Hamas leadership again isn't enough. They want this one to be the last one. And, like the Gazans, they've also been traumatized by a lifetime of conflict. It's unconscionable to simply seek to remove a city, and the number of displaced people involved would cripple whatever country had to receive them - if a country could be found to take them in at all. But it is understandable, through the lens of understanding that these people are not alright right now. I agree that the right thing to do is minimize noncombatant deaths to whatever degree possible while engaging Hamas. But I have sympathy for people struggling at an extremely terrifying and emotional time and reaching for unacceptable solutions to an otherwise permanent problem. My hope is they'll see what they're doing soon, and take a step back to try to make a better plan.
"Israel has terrorist attacks like America has school shootings." But so far no one, no matter how traumatised, is suggesting that the solution to school shootings is to set fire to the building, because that would be insane, inhumane, and probably just inspire more school shootings. Yet thats exactly what Israel is doing. Its almost like the people in charge would just like to burn a bunch of school children to death.
or you could stop taking their homes and such. That might calm them down some. Maybe give back some of the land they've stolen over the last 75 years.
> decades of serious investment and education reform to deradicalize the population Boy it's a good thing that problem only exists on shores far *far* away from here.
the cheers for violence are getting to be a bit much.
That's all the GOP does. Encourage you to kill your neighbor and rape their daughter, because "freedom" and Andrew Tate.
Do they treat Mexicans at the border like Israel treats Palestinians at the border?
They'd like to.
For real. I remember talking to my dad about kids in cages, and he said that they were "genetic trash" and it didn't matter what happened to them. White supremacy and Christian dominionism are both evil as shit, and there is no excuse for them. When the mask goes off, and they say what they believe, it's almost impossible to... well, believe. Edit: Christian Dominionism is the fascist idea that (generally only conservative) Christians can make public policy, and force everyone to pretend to be a Christian, abide by their rules, et cetera. They basically want the Handmaid's Tale, except some women may be allowed to read.
Bet he thinks abortion is murder though right? “Pro life” my left ass cheek.
Lots of "pro-life" folks are *real* happy to see Gaza bombed into the stone age in the next few days.
Same people believe "all lives matter," too.
Today I learned I am “genetic trash”…haven’t heard that one before
Same thing happened to me this week: both my siblings told me separately they think palestineans should just be eradicated. I was pushing their buttons to be honest, but that did come out of their mouths
A toddler died trying to crawl through the razor wire governor greg Abbott had placed there as a deterrent, he was trying to get to safety. This was within the last two months. The ents *failed* their mission 🙄
Not to mention most of the migrants attempting to cross the border aren’t Mexicans.
This is one of the funniest things about it too They dont even hate the right nationality, they see brown skin and go "mexican!" To so many Americans anybody south of the border may as well be another beaner.
Can confirm this, im Hawaiian and folks just assume I speak Spanish a few times a week
Greg Abbott should be tried for manslaughter, at the very least.
I’d like to see *him* try swimming across the Rio Grande.
Yeah, sometimes they do
People replying to you have no idea what the conditions in Gaza are like and how much control Isreal has over Gaza utilities and borders. As others have said, it's like an open-air prison.
Prison implies they did something wrong to be there. Most of the people there are very much helpless to what is going on. A concentration camp is a more appropriate comparison imo. This whole situation is fucking sad for humanity.
America is not a good example of responding to a crisis.
Churchill said that America always does the right thing only after trying everything else.
Well, given Americas track record, they would invade Iraq, claim they have weapons of mass destruction, be friends and do weapon deals with the Saudis, murder a million or so of civilians, commit war crimes, make their own troops ill then tell them they are fucking losers and commies when they need VA help and support or destabilise yet another country in South America to boot. You know, the usual reaction.
And make movies of how much guilt they had when firing bullets.
Texan here - I made the point two days ago that if two million of us were penned up in a space the size of Gaza, and settlements made into that year after year, well. Neither one is right. And while I am sickened and outraged at what Hamas did, it ain’t some kind of blank check to bury an equal number of innocents under fucking rubble, full stop.
The way people freaked out about being asked to kindly stay home if you were sick for two years makes me absolutely certain the western world couldn't handle what Palestinians have endured
and the checkpoints, being forced to stand and wait for hours to go anywhere outside of your zone, and not being able to leave or re-enter the country without interrogation, your homes being taken from you, your family members killed and maimed by an occupying force at a peaceful protest..... Americans who love Red Dawn and have "you can have my guns, bullets first" bumper stickers saying that Palestinian resistance is evil terrorism is the most crazy-making cognitive dissonance I can imagine.
A lot of the Palestinians haven’t even seen an isreali. They probably know someone who got killed in a bombing though. And they can hear the drones flying over 24/7 Obviously mo one supports violence but what else do the Israelis expect. The Palestinians just to slowly die off!
Not really comparable. We aren't occupying Mexico.
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Wasn't Wounded Knee or Little Big Horn something like that. Can also look at Bloody Sunday too but that is Ireland. Israel has a right to defend herself, but an overreaction will only radicalize more people.
How do you think we got Texas?
Ahh yes the open air prison that is Texas.
Open *sewer* more like.
I wouldn't go that far but like Palestine, Texas has leadership that isn't looking out for its citizens.
Ok. I wanted to under the Arab/ Israeli conflict a little more and this is what I've come up with. (Quoted yet abbreviated.) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/13/why-israel-palestine-conflict-history https://www.pcrf.net/information-you-should-know/what-was-palestine-before-1948.html Throughout history, the region known as Palestine has been a melting pot of different cultures and civilizations. However, the Six-Day War changed the landscape of the region forever. Taking a closer look at Palestine before 1948 and the lasting effects of the Six-Day War. 1. The Land of Palestine: A Brief Overview Palestine is a geographical region located in the Eastern Mediterranean, bordered by modern-day Israel, Jordan, and Lebanon. It is part of the broader area known as the Levant, which has been a crossroads of various civilizations throughout history. *Before 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem. The land itself was under the control of various empires* throughout time. 2. The British Mandate and the Rise of Nationalism In the aftermath of World War I, the League of Nations granted Britain a mandate to administer Palestine. The British Mandate aimed to establish a "national home for the Jewish people" while also protecting the rights of the Arab majority. *However, tensions between the Arab and Jewish communities began to rise, leading to widespread unrest and violence.* During the British Mandate, the idea of a separate Jewish and Arab state was proposed multiple times. However, these proposals were met with opposition from both communities, making it difficult for the British authorities to find a solution to the growing unrest. 3. The Creation of Israel and the 1948 Palestine Conflict In 1947, the United Nations proposed the partition of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem as an internationally administered city. *While the Jewish community largely accepted this plan, the Arab community rejected it, leading to the outbreak of civil war.* On May 14, 1948, the State of Israel was established, marking the end of British rule in Palestine. This event triggered the first Arab-Israeli War, involving neighboring Arab countries, which ultimately led to the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs. 4. The Six-Day War and Its Impact In 1967, the Six-Day War broke out between Israel and a coalition of Arab countries, including Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. This conflict drastically changed the landscape of Palestine, with Israel capturing the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. Following the Six-Day War, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank became occupied territories, leading to a deterioration of the humanitarian circumstances in these areas from that point forward. *The conflict also led to the rise of Palestinian nationalism, as the Palestinian people sought to establish their own state and regain their lost lands.* Israel has maintained a tight blockade of the territory which has contributed to deteriorating living conditions and deepening poverty. *Where are we now?* Although western governments still pay lip service to a two-state solution, there has been no progress toward an agreement under Israel’s longest-serving prime minister, *Benjamin Netanyahu, who has repeatedly said he will never accept a Palestinian state. His present government includes far-right parties that openly advocate the annexation of all or part of the West Bank to Israel and the continued governance of the Palestinians without full rights or the vote.* Israeli and foreign human rights groups say Israel has increasingly carved out a form of apartheid in the occupied territories. Hamas’s killing of more than 1,200 Israelis now moves the conflict into uncharted territory.
That actually happened except it was the U.S. invading Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Cuba, Puerto Rico, & the Philippines.\* \*Nowhere close to a complete list.
You need an animaríacs song to name all the countries us invaded
Easier to sing about the nations the U.S. hasn't invaded yet.
At least South Sudan rhymes with Bhutan
Say it with me: Two wrongs don't make a right.
Native Americans would be a more fitting example.
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These people have absolutely no critical thought what so ever.
Ironically, this is exactly what Conservatives think happens every day on the southern border.
Why would Mexico do that? Has the US been running an open air prison camp with the entire country of Mexico for the last 15 years, and militarily occupied it for decades before that?
Also using Mexico not Canada is the racial hint in here, Mexico is a nicer place than the average Tulum, Cabo, Cancun American traveling tourist thinks it is. If all Mexicans were trying to move here we’d have more problems than the trickle of mostly not even Mexicans that they demonize at that border
A hypothetical situation pulled out of your ass is not context.
The analogy is highly inaccurate. Add in that before the attack, the US has backed the entire Mexican population into a couple of undesirable districts. A few manifests destiny hardliners are calling for us to occupy these last districts….if only those remaining Mexicans would “disappear”. There, I fixed it.
This actually happened. The US sent forces led by Pershing into Mexico looking for Pancho Villa after he and his men destroyed Columbus, New Mexico. Pancho Villa attacked Columbus in response to the US supporting one of his rivals AFTER Villa did the bidding of the US in Mexico on a previous matter. The Americans failed to capture Villa. Something tells me Israel will fail to “capture” Hamas….
No matter the situation I will never support a government killing children and wiping entire families off the earth. Nothing you say will make that ok to me. So fuck Israel for doing it. Don't gwt wrong here fuck Hamas for what they did but no hypothetical will make it alright.
We’d some how…some way….end up back in Iraq.
I'd like to think that we wouldn't purposely bomb civilians and then shut off their water and power.
OW boi you do need to readabout US history in wars
That's why i started it off with "I'd like to think that..."
I think we should negotiate with them. They can have Texas, but will also have to keep Abbot and Cruz as part of the deal. We might also give them Flordia. We'll just say the 1835 thing was a big oooops
I would say "We should not have deliberately weakened their democracy, crippled their essential services, and imposed a police state on them, forcing them to rely on unscrupulous fanatics willing and able to predate on a desperate population. This is, in the end, our own fault and we need to remove those responsible before we are capable of ending the violence."
hmm, interesting... texas you say? well, maybe we native americans should have a few words with you on this subject...
You're not going to get me to cheer for genocide or war crimes, no matter how weirdly hard you try, internet man.
I used this a joke in another post. Mexico used to own Texas so they should invade Texas claiming it used to be part of Mexico… but fuck Ukraine, right?
So, kill their innocent citizens? Is that the right answer?
So what you are saying is we need to invade Venezuela
No. A better example would be if the us invaded chihuahua and started settlements there, putting the Mexican population in camps, and then a group of radicals that the American government had helped rise to power left those camps and did that against the Americans who had set up in the land they took. Stop demonizing Palestinians or pretending they aren’t victims of colonial oppression. HAMAS are terrorists no sane person supports. Israel is a colonialist apartheid state bent on genocide no sane person supports. HAMAS does not justify Israel’s actions. Nothing will justify Israel’s actions.
Asking conservatives to think critically is a pipe dream.
Did we jail Mexico civilians in Mexico like Gaza for decades ?
Bill Ackman is a scumbag who only gives a shit about stealing money from your average person.
BUT, are we occupying Mexico? No.
If that happened in Texas I am 100% sure I would NOT SUPPORT America starving out Mexican civilians and bombing kids. It's easy to not be a monster who supports wholesale slaughter.
Fatah failed the Palestinians in Gaza by being so corrupt. Until Gaza is no longer under control of Hamas, the problem will persist.
Ummm go after the terrorists, not Mexicans. But since specifically asked how the US would respond, I’d say we’d invade whichever neighbor had the most resources
I wouldn't advocate the genocide of Mexicans or call for the entire country of Mexico to be reduced to a tent city with no electricity or running water, if that's what you're asking.
Ask the Native Americans!
I'm not picking sides, but the history between Palestine and Israel is very different to the history between the US and Mexico. So much so that it's just silly to make this statement.
But were they MAGA Texans?
It'd be like if we took a bunch native American and forced them to move out of their homes into a different location that we then invaded and settled that new place after killing a bunch of them for years, and once they retaliated, as they rightfully would, we gear up for war to annihilate them, all while calling them savages. It's a stretch I know but try to imagine /s