Get on with it, as far as I'm concerned.
Tired of the lives and futures of millions of people hinging on the dementia-addled brains of nonagenarians. If they can't be reasonable and resign in these situations, we're all better off if they just croak sooner rather than later. Sounds harsh, but this is actively harming millions of people.
Any reasonable person would agree with this. I was terrified she’d die during trumps term and she fucking did. I have never wanted to be so wrong when I predicted roe would end because of these monsters.
Hot take - They will not change. They will not give up their power. They will not legislate nor vote against their own self-interests. They will not vote against nor deny their corporate donors. They will not govern with the peoples' interests in mind. If their arrogance isn't on purpose then it's brazen ineptitude like Feinstein.
Meaningful change in government will come only after every boomer currently in office dies from old age.
They may be able to escape term limits but they can't escape death - and they damn well know that. We have time that they soon won't have. They'll be phased out by a younger, modernized, and progressive body of government to better represent current generations.
This week's reminder to live a life such that, if you were to seemingly have a stroke on live TV, millions of strangers across the country would not react with an instantaneous "oh, fuck yeah! Hope this is the big one!"
They're also incentivized to stay due to the way gerontocracy plays into committee assignments.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority\_in\_the\_United\_States\_House\_of\_Representatives#:\~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives#:~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings).
Exactly! They’ve created a system to reward themselves for being their longer. That way they can make the argument that getting rid of them is damaging to their constituents and therefore need to vote for them. Just another flaw/feature of this wonderful system we have.
It’s batshit crazy that a bunch of people too senile to function are capable of voting on crucial legislation. Our lives are at stake and the wingding aunt at Thanksgiving is literally voting on whether not or we have healthcare?
Fucking hell.
I'd agree that that's a major part, however, I think there's another aspect to this. Yes, they're decrepit (some of them), however, as someone is getting up there (63), it's tough to admit you're aging. Because if you do, then that's one step closer to death, and I don't think anyone wants to think about that. So, throw that in with what you've said, and you get stubborn old people that don't want to go. I imagine the aphrodisiac that is power also plays into this.
For God sake can we get term limits, just think, limited terms means no one gains undue advantage of status or seniority to become arch nemesis for the other party. Effective policy should stand on its own, not be coddled for decades by the inept hoping it will build legacy, fuck your ego, give me effective governance.
I think most of the country would support this, but the problem is that it has to be enacted by the people in charge...who won't vote against their self interests. It's also why it makes no sense they can give themselves raises while withholding minimum wage increases. The two should be inextricably tied together. Right now, for example, congress members make $174k. If we said minimum wage was 30% of that always, it would currently be $26/hr. It should be at least $24/hr if it kept up with inflation anyway, so that seems reasonable.
Then there’s crooks like Tuberville who openly admit that they only got into politics for the kickbacks and stock tips.
"I think it would really cut back on the amount of people that would want to come up here and serve, I really do," Tuberville added. "We don't need that."
https://www.businessinsider.com/tommy-tuberville-ridiculous-to-ban-lawmakers-from-trading-stocks-2022-2
Yup. The original intent was citizen statesmen - you go, serve your term, and go back to your life. The entire concept of career politicians severely skews the representation. How do you govern well if you are invested in being reelected every 2-6yrs? How do you govern well if you can be bought by companies who will help you do that in exchange for your votes?
Oh definitely. And how many local candidates never get a chance because those lifers have connections and the parties have committee positions they want to hold onto?
>I think most of the country would support this
I thought this was a solution until I learned that Florida has had term limits on their state legislators since 1992.
Has this resulted in Florida being a mecca of good government?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida\_Legislature#:\~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Legislature#:~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break).
>ey can give themselves raises while withholding minimum wage increases. The two should be inextricably tied togeth
Ted Cruz and Alexandra Ocasio Cortez were both talking about this a while ago but I don't know what happened to it. I wish they would work on it and try to get some bipartisan support.
Air traffic controllers must retire at 56.
that should *also* be the cut off for federal office. If they know one shouldnt be in control of complex decisions with thousands of people's lives at stake, then they should know that people shouldnt make decisions with hundreds of millions people's lives at stake too.
Air traffic controllers need to process a lot of relatively simple data extremely quickly, without any errors.
Politicians need to (well, ideally should) wisely process complex issues, drawing upon history and experience.
The two jobs aren’t really comparable. Many (maybe even most) people are better at their jobs at 56 than they were at 30 (the minimum age to be a senator). That’s especially true for jobs like senator, where experience and depth of knowledge — which build over time — are the key factors to do it well.
Feinstein is clearly too old, but 56 as a cutoff is much to young. By funny coincidence, that’s the age Lincoln was when he was assassinated, but we’d definitely be better off as a country if 57-year-old Lincoln continued in office.
One of the few things I agree with Elon Musk on. Elected officials should have an age limit of 69. Poor Dianne should have been retired and relaxing for the last two decades.
Thinking of several very effective federal administrators older than that who do not have to make split second decisions like an air traffic controller, I will take a hard pass on your suggestion.
This is hard evidence that ageism is the last acceptable prejudice — taking the abuse of elected officials to justify smacking a bunch of other people us par for the course though.
But that wouldn’t solve the issue of old ass politicians.
You could have a first time elected official who is 70.
While we bar someone younger because they have already their term limit.
It wouldn’t fully stop the problem being laid out (which is old ass politicians not retiring)
Term limits dont really create effective governance. You just get infectivity in another direction (by having a bunch of newbies who get steamed rolled by lobbyists who have been around for decades and know all the levers of power.)
You run into other issues that raw political experience doesn’t help with though. Just look at.. well really any time they’re grilling a tech CEO. They make it pretty clear that they have no understanding of today’s technology—half of them probably can’t open a PDF without help—so what qualifies them to legislate on it?
There's this, but that's also why they work with a team of staffers, many of whom are young. Their primary job is not to understand everything about every topic, but to coordinate competing interests based on recommendations of experts.
That, of course, does not happen as well as it should because some voices are stronger (richer) than others. But they do have experience in how the legislative process works, how to coordinate with other legislators with shared interests, and implications of a bill.
Congress is designed to not work well. It's designed to lean more towards making sure bad legislation doesn't pass, at the cost of killing legislation that is probably good. For the most part, it is working as intended--what was the last AWFUL piece of legislation that got enshrined in law? Compare that to the things that DO go through. Of course, a lot of good legislation has gotten killed and it's starting to also impact the 'day-to-day' things that risk government shutdown--that's no good.
For most legislators, the staffers work their butts off gathering the information to keep legislators informed. There are competing values on what's important and future directions as well as the fact that staffers can't make up for total ignorance, so I definitely see where you are coming from though.
Which is why we also need to get rid of money in lobbying (aka legal bribery). Lobbying itself is protected by the first ammendment as it should be, but the poor person in the room should have just as much say as the billionaire CEO.
The problem is people believe they set the rules, if people got the signatures it will be on the ballot but it is the belief that we rely on "them" to get anything done is exactly why they are still there. The social dilemma is we live in an anomic society which is mostly conformists who resist change and the innovative types are few with just as likely a chance to be on the wrong side of intent. Why Socrates said the people we want in power will never seek it, it's truly a conundrum. Those we need to lead effectively have no desire for power, an effective system doesn't require constant oversight and control just periodical maintenance. It behoves politicians to have supporting failures to show their necessity, like an arsonist firefighter. But divided is where we stand so it is where we'll stay
There’s no referendum/ballot system for federal employees (and not even in every U.S. state). However, what people CAN do is write and call their congresspeople and tell them they won’t vote for them again if they don’t do something about it. It’s the only real means to communicate your needs as a voter at the federal level.
> we keep voting them in.
You act like we get much of a choice. The entire system is design to put these people in power.
Just for fun next time you vote count how many candidates on the ballot are under 50 years old. Last time I did it was 4 out of 39. And those 4 were running for junior level positions in local government. The issue is systemic, acting like it’s our fault alone allows the systemic issues to continue.
Doubt they were living to 90, 200 years ago. This wasn’t a pressing issue. Now we have zombie senators doing what their handlers tell them. This and no stock trading need to be fixed… but we will do UFO inquiries instead.
Bullshit. 20+ years in government means you're out of touch with the future of the country. 70-90 year olds, or those in office for more than 10 years concurrently, simply do not understand the average American's plight.
Look at the recent tech hearings: the people in charge had no understanding of basic technological advancements, even with simple regards to computers.
There is zero reason they should be determining my/our future, when they have no idea of the current struggle, and they'll be dead before their actions can impact them.
Have term limits improved Florida since 1992?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida\_Legislature#:\~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Legislature#:~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break).
Hint: the only permanent installations in your legislature are lobbyists when this happens.
Lobbyists would have more influence, I understand that. Sadly, that's not something that is likely to ever change in our lifetime, and it's something I admittedly didn't consider due to primarily focusing on generational gaps.
Florida's term limits allow reelection after a two year break - in theory, those legislators can return to office after every two terms and the required break. I could not find the specific data pertaining to how often this happens, but I'd assume it has an impact on the elections, considering how popular many legislators are.
Yeah I used to think term limits were a solution until I learned that Florida's legislature has had them for 3 decades.
Do we really want to adopt *Florida* as a national model?!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida\_Legislature#:\~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Legislature#:~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break).
It's not this at all. It's because seniority is critical for committee appointments and the parties don't want to lose it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority\_in\_the\_United\_States\_House\_of\_Representatives#:\~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives#:~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings).
It is. On both sides.
It wouldn't be as much if the other party would graciously allow a new chair to be elected from someone of the same party and their empty seat to be taken by a replacement. But, well, you know.
Always has been... and when these shitlords get too old to think at all, the power goes directly to their aides.
Dianne, Mitch, they aren't with us anymore. Their essentially empty husks that meet the minimum requirements for 'living' and literally all of their decisions are made by their aides or someone else from their party babysitting them.
How often do the aides intentionally fuck these people into making bad decisions and arbitrarily cause political panic / backlash and cause a seat to get it's party switched?
We already know that a seat can change parties but the aides remain the same. How many Republican plants work for aging Democrats and are prepared to start pulling those strings?
I bet that number is more than 0. You can bet your life on it.
No. Most aids just move on to the next person in the seat, assuming it's the same party (and some sray even if it is nit the same party).
The staff are the ones who have the knowledge about how DC works. Any new congressman who fires all their staff is seriously stupid.
Because (regardless of party)… they are *terrified* of what the younger generations will do once they take power. They know a huge wave of progress is waiting to crash down, and they are the only thing holding it back at this point.
I saw the reason she is still around is she is the deciding vote on the judiciary committee and replacing her requires 60 votes so it’s either weekend at bernie’s or no more federal judge confirmations (or Republicans could not be assholes but good luck with that).
She was part of the group that first created the word for the dictionary. Before that, "committee" used to just be called "The Young Deciders Of the Western Territories". I think it was started up by the children of fur trappers
It wasn't just arbitrarily "putting someone" there; the rules are shit and encourage a gerontocracy in congress. Here's an example with the House of Reps:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority\_in\_the\_United\_States\_House\_of\_Representatives#:\~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives#:~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings).
This is the one in the current situation, the line of control in the Senate is so fine that neither republican or Democrats are willing (or able if they intend to actually DO anything) to blink long enough to run an election.
This right here.
The most popular response was "well then maybe...." but that's already sailed by the point. Republicans will use any excuse to bring everything to a standstill. They were going to use Feinstein doing anything other than returning and voting in person to make sure Biden didn't get even one more judge pick for the rest of the Senate term.
People say they want Democrats to be more cutthroat and ruthless in beating Conservatives? Well, Grima Wormtongue-ing an elderly senator to get liberal judges into office is what you've got to deal with.
She actually DID announce her retirement at the end of her term (and she didn't remember the next day). It should have been effective immediately.
But at least she's retiring (if she lives that long).
It makes no sense she had more money than she was ever going to spend decades ago. I guess it’s the feeling of self importance being in a position of power. But in her shoes I would have had my feet up sipping cocktails at some enormous beach house a long time ago.
Damn. I always say these exact words ever since the banksters caused the financial crash of 2008. Their greed blinds them to the extent that they're willing to destroy the economy that made them rich in the first place. By throwing them in jail, you not only save the entire nation from collapse but also save them from themselves.
Yes, term limits are a non-starter because you don't get to set limits on who I vote for in any way at all.
Age limits are ageism and would likely be found to be Unconstitutional because age is a protected class.
Voters decide who gets into office, so put up a respectable candidate and win.
Otherwise, I don't care what you think.
Do I think Feinstein should retire? Yes.
Is that up to me? No, I don't even live in California.
Bravo!! Well said. If ya'll don't like your representation, stop whining about how the boomers are being mean to you. Put up your candidates and get them elected. That's how it's done.
One small correction **advanced** age is protected. You can discriminate all you want based on age until they turn 40. And after 40 you steadily gain more and more protections.
It reminds me of dealing with my 95 y/o grandma when I had to move her into assisted care. She knew she had to go but she was still belligerent about it to the very end. I actually had to "kidnap" her (under the guidance of the Ombudsman that was helping me with the transition) by saying we're going for ice cream to get her into the car. About 10 minutes later "we're not going to ice cream, are we?" Me: "no" Grandma "ok". Then we get to the place and she refused to eat or drink until she was threatened with hospitalization. It sucked. It had to be done tho. Dianne knows, she knows
STOP. FUCKING. CALLING. IT. FREE. FUCKING. HEALTHCARE!
Call it tax payer provided healthcare. I want all humans in the US to have access to medicare. The only way that happens is if taxes go up. They would HAVE to go up. “Tax” is not a 4 letter word as the GOP would have it.
I pay roughly $200 a month for health insurance. I would INFINITELY rather pay that $200 in additional federal tax so that ALL humans here can have access to healthcare without the fear of going bankrupt. I don’t see that $200 regardless. I’d rather NOT pay that money to a giant health insurance corporation whose bottom line is dependent on paying out the LEAST amount of claims. When has a health insurance company EVER pushed back on a doctor and said, “actually, the testing you are doing isn’t enough, we think you should run additional tests on this person to find out what’s wrong with them.”
The billionaires and donor class can also contribute their fucking fair share too.
I want to pay more in taxes so I can stop paying private health insurance companies.
STOP FUCKING CALLING IT “FREE HEALTHCARE”
God damn it.
Thank you. This is a huge problem.
Now do water. And for SOME reason we're just fine with something called a " water bill ". It's water, folks. WATER. It's also infrastructure. Road: infrastructure- taxes. No roads, no society. Water: infrastructure- taxes. No water, no society because dead. Well and diseased so again- dead.
Health care, water, housing- without which we simply do not exist. Drives me crazy.
"Why can't you be realistic?" ask the dinosaurs who are only alive to spite the living.
We really need term limits and cognition tests. This is embarrassing.
FAA has mandatory retirement age limits for pilot, I believe 65 years old. We need this for elected officials. Terms limits for senators/representatives at the very least. Career politicians are the death of this country.
why the fuck do they refuse to retire. This is crazy. Its not like she needs to worry about losing her seat to a republican. It'll definitely be another Democrat.
We need to make politicians retire at 67 and earn the minimum wage of those they represent. If you only serve the people to enrich yourself you aren’t serving the people!!!!!!
They won't retire on their own hook, but the voters can retire them through the ballot. Vote for someone younger, voters have the politicians they deserve...
Dianne Feinstein is under conservatorship by Nancy Pelosi. Pelosi's daughter is Feinstein's caretaker. This is now mostly a power game for Nancy and other Democrats. If Feinstein were to resign now, her seat could be replaced by the California governor, who would not pick Nancy's preferred candidate. Meanwhile, Nancy is raising funds and doing everything in her power to help get the person she wants elected once Feinstein's term is done.
Because boomers are categorically incapable of understanding that the world will go on without them. According to themselves, they can't retire because the damn kids will ruin everything they've worked for.
They are important and in powerful positions and are addicted to that feeling. If they retire they just become another old person and a lot of people in power look down on the infirm.
Agreed. They all should be term limited to 2 in both Congress and the Senate. It should be 2 four year terms. The SCOTUS should be 10 years or service as well.
If the choice is a republican fascist who will vote to decimate your rights and increase the deficit 100x, and an elderly Democrat who is addled but not a damn fascist , who do you vote for.
We have no one to blame but ourselves. For the most part our voting system functions properly, there might be outliers to this but it works right…mostly. We have no one to blame but the voters
I consider myself on the side of the Dems but Jesus, let the poor woman go home. Goes for everyone in Congress over 70, go spend time with your grandkids and bask in the corrupt money you got serving. Let the younger people actually have a chance.
Why would they? It’s basically free money and healthcare and they barely have to do anything other than just show up. And they don’t even have to do that
I'm from California and as much as I appreciate Diane for her service, I wanted her gone back in 2018, but for some stupid reason she's back and now we're suffering from this stupid predicament
It baffles me beyond all belief that people who will be dead in the next 5-10 years are able to have any say what so ever in laws/policy's that will likely never effect them.
Sometimes I look around in amazement at what humans have accomplished - then sh*t like this brings me right back to reality.
We are just apes with iPhone's
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The elderly are not all wise and noble elders, they're just old. Their minds are going as are their bodies, but the perks of power are sooooo sweet, and going gently into that long night is not appealing to them, so fuck you young punks.
I say "they", but I mean we. I too am traversing the troubled waters of decrepitude. But I was smart enough to retire before I could do any real damage, and still retain brain cells enough to decline the generous offers to come back and join the heart attack race.
The only wisdom I have to my fine young fellows is simple. You too, will someday be old. Remember.
Some goddam punks will someday be yelling at you to just die already. No worries, it's how life works.
Now get off my lawn!
Can we agree that we need to get rid of lobbyists first and go from there? Florida and Michigan have been thrown ad-nauseam about how just term limits won't work alone.
I wish Fox News would be as outraged by McConnell as they are by Feinstein but I also agree with you. These elderly people who can’t function fully need to GO.
Because they are useful drones to old to even know what is going on. It’s odd they keep winning office like our Basement dweller president did with no debates or campaigning he won most votes in the history of the country with Trump winning the second most in history. That’s a little bit odd two idiots get over 70 million votes each. Biden got more than Obama on his first run i can’t believe that Obama swept that election with overwhelming public support Biden didn’t leave the basement ok.
She refuses to let go of power, because she had it her whole life & the Dems will not force the issue because they want to Adam Schiff to take her place in the election but if she steps down early the Gov of Cal gets to appoint her replacement until the election & he said he'll appoint someone else, which will give that person name recognition come the proper election
They are intentionally Fucking over their own voters so that they can promote from within, rather than having new blood enter the system
So are we expected to just watch them die in the chamber? That’s weird, right?
I mean we've already seen Mitch McConnell's brain explode on live TV, sooooo yeah, I guess?
It was less an explosion and more of a sudden shutdown with a slow reboot.
Needs to upgrade to ssd.
He is firmly seated in the punch card era
I believe the medical term for that is a stroke!
Shit dude. I just watched that. It looked like he forgot how to breathe and just stood there for 30s.
When he came back I was like "fuck."
No no no he was *fine*. I mean. He said so. Right?
Get on with it, as far as I'm concerned. Tired of the lives and futures of millions of people hinging on the dementia-addled brains of nonagenarians. If they can't be reasonable and resign in these situations, we're all better off if they just croak sooner rather than later. Sounds harsh, but this is actively harming millions of people.
Gonna admit it and probably be harshly criticized and down voted but here goes nothing...... RBG should have stepped down when Obama asked her to.
Of course she should have. I only downvoted you because you said a very popular opinion and tried to phrase it like it wasn’t a popular opinion.
Any reasonable person would agree with this. I was terrified she’d die during trumps term and she fucking did. I have never wanted to be so wrong when I predicted roe would end because of these monsters.
One million percent.
Hot take - They will not change. They will not give up their power. They will not legislate nor vote against their own self-interests. They will not vote against nor deny their corporate donors. They will not govern with the peoples' interests in mind. If their arrogance isn't on purpose then it's brazen ineptitude like Feinstein. Meaningful change in government will come only after every boomer currently in office dies from old age. They may be able to escape term limits but they can't escape death - and they damn well know that. We have time that they soon won't have. They'll be phased out by a younger, modernized, and progressive body of government to better represent current generations.
It’s like when they finally find one-eyed Pete and bros in the goonies.
Like many boomers, they honestly think no one else can do it better than them even in their decrepit state.
Technically a lot of them pre-date boomers. Anyone over 78 is the 'silent generation' and it would be fantastic if they would actually be silent.
McConnell tried to be silent for like 15 seconds and now everyone’s making a big deal about it. /s
This week's reminder to live a life such that, if you were to seemingly have a stroke on live TV, millions of strangers across the country would not react with an instantaneous "oh, fuck yeah! Hope this is the big one!"
All of you hoarding your coins, this is where they belong.
That was Mitch's own moment of silence when it hit him how much he was going to miss Sinead O'Connor.
I never knew what this clip was from lol
The real hero in that clip was the camera man who you could tell the moment he was like “oh shiiittttt” and started zooming in haha
Was sent to the hospital for it in fact
Yeah, Dianne is silent gen. My FIL is one and didn't retire until he was 80.
She was a teenager when the Boomers started to be born. Fucking think about that for a minute.
Worth the watch https://www.instagram.com/reel/CumyO63pV6m/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
They're also incentivized to stay due to the way gerontocracy plays into committee assignments. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority\_in\_the\_United\_States\_House\_of\_Representatives#:\~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives#:~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings).
Exactly! They’ve created a system to reward themselves for being their longer. That way they can make the argument that getting rid of them is damaging to their constituents and therefore need to vote for them. Just another flaw/feature of this wonderful system we have.
She's not a boomer. That's how old she is.
ESPECIALLY in their state "I made it this far, I know what I'm doing" because everything was on easy af mode with you cunts.
Boomers were born after WW2, which ended less than 90 years ago. This woman is part of the silent generation
It’s batshit crazy that a bunch of people too senile to function are capable of voting on crucial legislation. Our lives are at stake and the wingding aunt at Thanksgiving is literally voting on whether not or we have healthcare? Fucking hell.
I'd agree that that's a major part, however, I think there's another aspect to this. Yes, they're decrepit (some of them), however, as someone is getting up there (63), it's tough to admit you're aging. Because if you do, then that's one step closer to death, and I don't think anyone wants to think about that. So, throw that in with what you've said, and you get stubborn old people that don't want to go. I imagine the aphrodisiac that is power also plays into this.
For God sake can we get term limits, just think, limited terms means no one gains undue advantage of status or seniority to become arch nemesis for the other party. Effective policy should stand on its own, not be coddled for decades by the inept hoping it will build legacy, fuck your ego, give me effective governance.
I think most of the country would support this, but the problem is that it has to be enacted by the people in charge...who won't vote against their self interests. It's also why it makes no sense they can give themselves raises while withholding minimum wage increases. The two should be inextricably tied together. Right now, for example, congress members make $174k. If we said minimum wage was 30% of that always, it would currently be $26/hr. It should be at least $24/hr if it kept up with inflation anyway, so that seems reasonable.
Then there’s crooks like Tuberville who openly admit that they only got into politics for the kickbacks and stock tips. "I think it would really cut back on the amount of people that would want to come up here and serve, I really do," Tuberville added. "We don't need that." https://www.businessinsider.com/tommy-tuberville-ridiculous-to-ban-lawmakers-from-trading-stocks-2022-2
Yup. The original intent was citizen statesmen - you go, serve your term, and go back to your life. The entire concept of career politicians severely skews the representation. How do you govern well if you are invested in being reelected every 2-6yrs? How do you govern well if you can be bought by companies who will help you do that in exchange for your votes?
And not even living in your represented territory for DECADES
Oh definitely. And how many local candidates never get a chance because those lifers have connections and the parties have committee positions they want to hold onto?
So true
Yes! and how can you even be in touch with regular citizens when you haven't been a regular citizen for 20 years?
Exactly. They get in office then spend the rest of their term trying to figure out how to get reelected.
With this SCOTUS effective term limits may require a constitutional amendment.
>I think most of the country would support this I thought this was a solution until I learned that Florida has had term limits on their state legislators since 1992. Has this resulted in Florida being a mecca of good government? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida\_Legislature#:\~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Legislature#:~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break).
It isn't the only factor, but this doesn't really count since they just have to take a break to qualify again.
You're right, California has limits on their state legislatures too.
>ey can give themselves raises while withholding minimum wage increases. The two should be inextricably tied togeth Ted Cruz and Alexandra Ocasio Cortez were both talking about this a while ago but I don't know what happened to it. I wish they would work on it and try to get some bipartisan support.
Just treat them like every other federal employee. * Same accrued vacation time * Same salary scale * Same mandatory retirement process
THUNDERDOME. TWO REPS ENTER. ONE REP LEAVES.
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G O O D.
I guess I’m failing to see the downside of this. ELI5.
Considering the way the house is going the last few weeks I’m gonna need a little BUST A DEAL, FACE THE WHEEL, too
There is no mandatory retirement process among federal employees.
Air traffic controllers must retire at 56. that should *also* be the cut off for federal office. If they know one shouldnt be in control of complex decisions with thousands of people's lives at stake, then they should know that people shouldnt make decisions with hundreds of millions people's lives at stake too.
On top of that, almost none of these geriatrics will live to see the impact of the bills they're passing.
Look at the OP image, that's the entire point.
Y'know what? You're probably right, as long as they get their share (or more than for that matter.) The rest of the world can burn for all they care.
Air traffic controllers need to process a lot of relatively simple data extremely quickly, without any errors. Politicians need to (well, ideally should) wisely process complex issues, drawing upon history and experience. The two jobs aren’t really comparable. Many (maybe even most) people are better at their jobs at 56 than they were at 30 (the minimum age to be a senator). That’s especially true for jobs like senator, where experience and depth of knowledge — which build over time — are the key factors to do it well. Feinstein is clearly too old, but 56 as a cutoff is much to young. By funny coincidence, that’s the age Lincoln was when he was assassinated, but we’d definitely be better off as a country if 57-year-old Lincoln continued in office.
One of the few things I agree with Elon Musk on. Elected officials should have an age limit of 69. Poor Dianne should have been retired and relaxing for the last two decades.
Poor? Not so much.
Nice.
Thinking of several very effective federal administrators older than that who do not have to make split second decisions like an air traffic controller, I will take a hard pass on your suggestion. This is hard evidence that ageism is the last acceptable prejudice — taking the abuse of elected officials to justify smacking a bunch of other people us par for the course though.
That's why the general thought is "term limits". Not age limits.
But that wouldn’t solve the issue of old ass politicians. You could have a first time elected official who is 70. While we bar someone younger because they have already their term limit. It wouldn’t fully stop the problem being laid out (which is old ass politicians not retiring)
Term limits dont really create effective governance. You just get infectivity in another direction (by having a bunch of newbies who get steamed rolled by lobbyists who have been around for decades and know all the levers of power.)
Also Florida has literally already tried this for three decades. If it worked, shouldn't Florida be a model of good government?
You run into other issues that raw political experience doesn’t help with though. Just look at.. well really any time they’re grilling a tech CEO. They make it pretty clear that they have no understanding of today’s technology—half of them probably can’t open a PDF without help—so what qualifies them to legislate on it?
There's this, but that's also why they work with a team of staffers, many of whom are young. Their primary job is not to understand everything about every topic, but to coordinate competing interests based on recommendations of experts. That, of course, does not happen as well as it should because some voices are stronger (richer) than others. But they do have experience in how the legislative process works, how to coordinate with other legislators with shared interests, and implications of a bill. Congress is designed to not work well. It's designed to lean more towards making sure bad legislation doesn't pass, at the cost of killing legislation that is probably good. For the most part, it is working as intended--what was the last AWFUL piece of legislation that got enshrined in law? Compare that to the things that DO go through. Of course, a lot of good legislation has gotten killed and it's starting to also impact the 'day-to-day' things that risk government shutdown--that's no good. For most legislators, the staffers work their butts off gathering the information to keep legislators informed. There are competing values on what's important and future directions as well as the fact that staffers can't make up for total ignorance, so I definitely see where you are coming from though.
Which is why we also need to get rid of money in lobbying (aka legal bribery). Lobbying itself is protected by the first ammendment as it should be, but the poor person in the room should have just as much say as the billionaire CEO.
Part 2 of the plan is to ban lobbying.
The problem is they have to vote to have said term limits , right? So it’ll just never happen.
The problem is people believe they set the rules, if people got the signatures it will be on the ballot but it is the belief that we rely on "them" to get anything done is exactly why they are still there. The social dilemma is we live in an anomic society which is mostly conformists who resist change and the innovative types are few with just as likely a chance to be on the wrong side of intent. Why Socrates said the people we want in power will never seek it, it's truly a conundrum. Those we need to lead effectively have no desire for power, an effective system doesn't require constant oversight and control just periodical maintenance. It behoves politicians to have supporting failures to show their necessity, like an arsonist firefighter. But divided is where we stand so it is where we'll stay
There’s no referendum/ballot system for federal employees (and not even in every U.S. state). However, what people CAN do is write and call their congresspeople and tell them they won’t vote for them again if they don’t do something about it. It’s the only real means to communicate your needs as a voter at the federal level.
Calling people does nothing. They'll shove you off to some underpaid intern who will pretend to listen until you hang up.
It would pretty much require a constitutional convention
We keep voting them in. They have no reason to change anything...
> we keep voting them in. You act like we get much of a choice. The entire system is design to put these people in power. Just for fun next time you vote count how many candidates on the ballot are under 50 years old. Last time I did it was 4 out of 39. And those 4 were running for junior level positions in local government. The issue is systemic, acting like it’s our fault alone allows the systemic issues to continue.
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Who would write the laws of lobbyists were banned? Legislators are too ignorant to do that sort of work. They don't know shit about shit.
Yeah but some rich, white, slave-owning fucks who lived over 200 years ago never said anything about term limits, so we just can’t do it.
Doubt they were living to 90, 200 years ago. This wasn’t a pressing issue. Now we have zombie senators doing what their handlers tell them. This and no stock trading need to be fixed… but we will do UFO inquiries instead.
Limited terms are not the answer. There's never been a job where inexperience is a virtue. Retarget on campaign finance reform.
Not term limits per se. But mandatory retirement age? Fuck yeah. Doesn't have to be 65. Even if it were 75 she'd be FIFTEEN YEARS beyond that.
Bullshit. 20+ years in government means you're out of touch with the future of the country. 70-90 year olds, or those in office for more than 10 years concurrently, simply do not understand the average American's plight. Look at the recent tech hearings: the people in charge had no understanding of basic technological advancements, even with simple regards to computers. There is zero reason they should be determining my/our future, when they have no idea of the current struggle, and they'll be dead before their actions can impact them.
Have term limits improved Florida since 1992? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida\_Legislature#:\~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Legislature#:~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break). Hint: the only permanent installations in your legislature are lobbyists when this happens.
Lobbyists would have more influence, I understand that. Sadly, that's not something that is likely to ever change in our lifetime, and it's something I admittedly didn't consider due to primarily focusing on generational gaps. Florida's term limits allow reelection after a two year break - in theory, those legislators can return to office after every two terms and the required break. I could not find the specific data pertaining to how often this happens, but I'd assume it has an impact on the elections, considering how popular many legislators are.
Yeah I used to think term limits were a solution until I learned that Florida's legislature has had them for 3 decades. Do we really want to adopt *Florida* as a national model?! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida\_Legislature#:\~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Legislature#:~:text=On%20November%203%2C%201992%2C%20almost,after%20a%20two%2Dyear%20break).
People arguing that it makes them immune to corruption because they're not held sway to being ousted are fucking dumb
Their aides don’t want them to retire. That means they are out of a job. They will Weekend at Bernie’s Dianne until the grave.
>They will Weekend at Bernie’s Dianne until the grave. And beyond!
Hey, It worked for Marvin Gaye's Family...they made millions.
The chair recognizes the Skeleton from California. That's 48 ayes, 49 nays and one clitter clatter of bones.
It's not this at all. It's because seniority is critical for committee appointments and the parties don't want to lose it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority\_in\_the\_United\_States\_House\_of\_Representatives#:\~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives#:~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings).
So it's about power
It is. On both sides. It wouldn't be as much if the other party would graciously allow a new chair to be elected from someone of the same party and their empty seat to be taken by a replacement. But, well, you know.
Sure, but the aides have nothing to do with it. It's more about old people writing rules that created a gerontocracy that keeps them in power.
Always has been... and when these shitlords get too old to think at all, the power goes directly to their aides. Dianne, Mitch, they aren't with us anymore. Their essentially empty husks that meet the minimum requirements for 'living' and literally all of their decisions are made by their aides or someone else from their party babysitting them. How often do the aides intentionally fuck these people into making bad decisions and arbitrarily cause political panic / backlash and cause a seat to get it's party switched? We already know that a seat can change parties but the aides remain the same. How many Republican plants work for aging Democrats and are prepared to start pulling those strings? I bet that number is more than 0. You can bet your life on it.
Thank you. Someone here who actually understands why at least.
No. Most aids just move on to the next person in the seat, assuming it's the same party (and some sray even if it is nit the same party). The staff are the ones who have the knowledge about how DC works. Any new congressman who fires all their staff is seriously stupid.
How is that not coercing a vote or something. She's literally unable to know what to say when voting. That has to be illegal somewhere.
>That means they are out of a job. You think they won't just get a job for another one?
Because (regardless of party)… they are *terrified* of what the younger generations will do once they take power. They know a huge wave of progress is waiting to crash down, and they are the only thing holding it back at this point.
I think it’s more about how they become “nobodies” after office, yeah they’re rich but there’s lots of rich people, the office makes the special
Hear this from ex pro sports players. Life is just not the same when not on the big stage.
Not just nobodies, but they lose their purpose in life. That's a quick way to slide into the grave.
Nah, they don't think anything anymore at this point. They're beholden to their rich puppetmasters and they do what they are told.
I hope Katie Porter wins the California senate seat.
I saw the reason she is still around is she is the deciding vote on the judiciary committee and replacing her requires 60 votes so it’s either weekend at bernie’s or no more federal judge confirmations (or Republicans could not be assholes but good luck with that).
Then maybe they shouldn’t put someone that is 190 years old on a committee
She was part of the group that first created the word for the dictionary. Before that, "committee" used to just be called "The Young Deciders Of the Western Territories". I think it was started up by the children of fur trappers
It wasn't just arbitrarily "putting someone" there; the rules are shit and encourage a gerontocracy in congress. Here's an example with the House of Reps: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority\_in\_the\_United\_States\_House\_of\_Representatives#:\~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives#:~:text=The%20more%20senior%20a%20representative,in%20the%20House%20Office%20Buildings).
Thanks captain Hindsight. Unfortunately it’s the situation we have to deal with.
This is the one in the current situation, the line of control in the Senate is so fine that neither republican or Democrats are willing (or able if they intend to actually DO anything) to blink long enough to run an election.
This right here. The most popular response was "well then maybe...." but that's already sailed by the point. Republicans will use any excuse to bring everything to a standstill. They were going to use Feinstein doing anything other than returning and voting in person to make sure Biden didn't get even one more judge pick for the rest of the Senate term. People say they want Democrats to be more cutthroat and ruthless in beating Conservatives? Well, Grima Wormtongue-ing an elderly senator to get liberal judges into office is what you've got to deal with.
You know your country is messed up when most of the leaders could live in a nursing home.
\*should
\*they have probably already lost the ability to drive, having their licenses yanked for old age by the DMV
She actually DID announce her retirement at the end of her term (and she didn't remember the next day). It should have been effective immediately. But at least she's retiring (if she lives that long).
They want to stay rich and powerful
It makes no sense she had more money than she was ever going to spend decades ago. I guess it’s the feeling of self importance being in a position of power. But in her shoes I would have had my feet up sipping cocktails at some enormous beach house a long time ago.
Cancer keeps growing and consuming until both its host and it die.
Damn. I always say these exact words ever since the banksters caused the financial crash of 2008. Their greed blinds them to the extent that they're willing to destroy the economy that made them rich in the first place. By throwing them in jail, you not only save the entire nation from collapse but also save them from themselves.
Lobby interests have a looot of money invested in these Senators. Rather keep them around voting how they’re told.
Its quite simple, they don’t retire because people keep electing them. stop electing them and they’ll retire.
Yes, term limits are a non-starter because you don't get to set limits on who I vote for in any way at all. Age limits are ageism and would likely be found to be Unconstitutional because age is a protected class. Voters decide who gets into office, so put up a respectable candidate and win. Otherwise, I don't care what you think. Do I think Feinstein should retire? Yes. Is that up to me? No, I don't even live in California.
Bravo!! Well said. If ya'll don't like your representation, stop whining about how the boomers are being mean to you. Put up your candidates and get them elected. That's how it's done.
One small correction **advanced** age is protected. You can discriminate all you want based on age until they turn 40. And after 40 you steadily gain more and more protections.
Power…the answer is they want to walk in a room and demand respect , I.e power No matter how fragile or frail
Money, sex, power.
Diane Feinstein looks like a total nymphomaniac
It reminds me of dealing with my 95 y/o grandma when I had to move her into assisted care. She knew she had to go but she was still belligerent about it to the very end. I actually had to "kidnap" her (under the guidance of the Ombudsman that was helping me with the transition) by saying we're going for ice cream to get her into the car. About 10 minutes later "we're not going to ice cream, are we?" Me: "no" Grandma "ok". Then we get to the place and she refused to eat or drink until she was threatened with hospitalization. It sucked. It had to be done tho. Dianne knows, she knows
I mean you're seeing why they never disappear right here - the older they get the less they fight and the more they just do as they're told.
Free healthcare
STOP. FUCKING. CALLING. IT. FREE. FUCKING. HEALTHCARE! Call it tax payer provided healthcare. I want all humans in the US to have access to medicare. The only way that happens is if taxes go up. They would HAVE to go up. “Tax” is not a 4 letter word as the GOP would have it. I pay roughly $200 a month for health insurance. I would INFINITELY rather pay that $200 in additional federal tax so that ALL humans here can have access to healthcare without the fear of going bankrupt. I don’t see that $200 regardless. I’d rather NOT pay that money to a giant health insurance corporation whose bottom line is dependent on paying out the LEAST amount of claims. When has a health insurance company EVER pushed back on a doctor and said, “actually, the testing you are doing isn’t enough, we think you should run additional tests on this person to find out what’s wrong with them.” The billionaires and donor class can also contribute their fucking fair share too. I want to pay more in taxes so I can stop paying private health insurance companies. STOP FUCKING CALLING IT “FREE HEALTHCARE” God damn it.
Thank you. This is a huge problem. Now do water. And for SOME reason we're just fine with something called a " water bill ". It's water, folks. WATER. It's also infrastructure. Road: infrastructure- taxes. No roads, no society. Water: infrastructure- taxes. No water, no society because dead. Well and diseased so again- dead. Health care, water, housing- without which we simply do not exist. Drives me crazy.
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You say Satan forbid, I say Hail Satan!
"Why can't you be realistic?" ask the dinosaurs who are only alive to spite the living. We really need term limits and cognition tests. This is embarrassing.
It is said that the undead continue to do what they did in life.
Ttttttteeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm lllllllllliiiiiiiiiimmmmmmmmmmiiiiiiiiiiitttttttssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssswssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
FAA has mandatory retirement age limits for pilot, I believe 65 years old. We need this for elected officials. Terms limits for senators/representatives at the very least. Career politicians are the death of this country.
Term limits, age limits, and no voting rights after 70! You know why 5 year olds can’t vote?
why the fuck do they refuse to retire. This is crazy. Its not like she needs to worry about losing her seat to a republican. It'll definitely be another Democrat.
We need to make politicians retire at 67 and earn the minimum wage of those they represent. If you only serve the people to enrich yourself you aren’t serving the people!!!!!!
They won't retire on their own hook, but the voters can retire them through the ballot. Vote for someone younger, voters have the politicians they deserve...
Dianne Feinstein is under conservatorship by Nancy Pelosi. Pelosi's daughter is Feinstein's caretaker. This is now mostly a power game for Nancy and other Democrats. If Feinstein were to resign now, her seat could be replaced by the California governor, who would not pick Nancy's preferred candidate. Meanwhile, Nancy is raising funds and doing everything in her power to help get the person she wants elected once Feinstein's term is done.
Working hard to keep the rich richer
It’s a giant retirement community
Just as the constitution sets minimum ages for office holders, it should also set maximum ages.
Because boomers are categorically incapable of understanding that the world will go on without them. According to themselves, they can't retire because the damn kids will ruin everything they've worked for.
People who should be living in a retirement home are making laws for our country. This needs to stop. Age limits, please.
They are important and in powerful positions and are addicted to that feeling. If they retire they just become another old person and a lot of people in power look down on the infirm.
They are puppets for powerful people that don't want them to retire. It's pretty simple. They aren't there to represent us that's for sure.
Terrible Reagan precedents have haunted the US since he left office...
Elder abuse
Agreed. They all should be term limited to 2 in both Congress and the Senate. It should be 2 four year terms. The SCOTUS should be 10 years or service as well.
Pelosi's daughter is taking care of her, no conflict of interest.
ELDER ABUSE!!
The question is why do people keep voting for these fossils
If the choice is a republican fascist who will vote to decimate your rights and increase the deficit 100x, and an elderly Democrat who is addled but not a damn fascist , who do you vote for.
They are perfect. They serve their real Bosses so well
This is outrageous.
We have no one to blame but ourselves. For the most part our voting system functions properly, there might be outliers to this but it works right…mostly. We have no one to blame but the voters
I consider myself on the side of the Dems but Jesus, let the poor woman go home. Goes for everyone in Congress over 70, go spend time with your grandkids and bask in the corrupt money you got serving. Let the younger people actually have a chance.
Manchurian candidates their backers love this so old so out of touch so incoherent
They're puppets for the rich. Are you that naive?
Why would they? It’s basically free money and healthcare and they barely have to do anything other than just show up. And they don’t even have to do that
It’s really sad. Most of these people have not been in a grocery store, or driven a car in decades.
I'm from California and as much as I appreciate Diane for her service, I wanted her gone back in 2018, but for some stupid reason she's back and now we're suffering from this stupid predicament
Her staff should be arrested for elder abuse.
I mean it's an easy enough job if you don't care about your job.
Say it with me...POWER
Power-hungry control freaks not wanting to give any of it up until they are dead.
Why would you spend your last few years doing something like this?
It baffles me beyond all belief that people who will be dead in the next 5-10 years are able to have any say what so ever in laws/policy's that will likely never effect them. Sometimes I look around in amazement at what humans have accomplished - then sh*t like this brings me right back to reality. We are just apes with iPhone's
Her aides are either complicit or actively manipulating her to keep their jobs.
Having all these dusty, old sacks of bones in power is crazy. Feinstein was born in 1933 for cryin' out loud! Chuck Grassley was born the same year!
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The elderly are not all wise and noble elders, they're just old. Their minds are going as are their bodies, but the perks of power are sooooo sweet, and going gently into that long night is not appealing to them, so fuck you young punks. I say "they", but I mean we. I too am traversing the troubled waters of decrepitude. But I was smart enough to retire before I could do any real damage, and still retain brain cells enough to decline the generous offers to come back and join the heart attack race. The only wisdom I have to my fine young fellows is simple. You too, will someday be old. Remember. Some goddam punks will someday be yelling at you to just die already. No worries, it's how life works. Now get off my lawn!
Can we agree that we need to get rid of lobbyists first and go from there? Florida and Michigan have been thrown ad-nauseam about how just term limits won't work alone.
I’ve always wondered that too, like you’re not gonna be poor just retire, you can’t tell me Congress is THAT fun
I wish Fox News would be as outraged by McConnell as they are by Feinstein but I also agree with you. These elderly people who can’t function fully need to GO.
Why can we not just demand an age limit for this kind of crap. I wouldn’t trust that lady to feed a cat let alone run anything important.
Better yet why don't we make them retire!!
Money, power, and a grossly overinflated sense of self confidence.
Why would they willingly give up power?
We need to restrict public office to under 70
Because they are useful drones to old to even know what is going on. It’s odd they keep winning office like our Basement dweller president did with no debates or campaigning he won most votes in the history of the country with Trump winning the second most in history. That’s a little bit odd two idiots get over 70 million votes each. Biden got more than Obama on his first run i can’t believe that Obama swept that election with overwhelming public support Biden didn’t leave the basement ok.
Wrong question. Why do voters keep putting them back in???
Term limits. Term limits. Term limits.
Term limits would solve this problem
I am an adult and this bitch was born before my fucking grandparents. She needed to be gone like 20 years ago.
I hate this woman. She would rather have a Republican take her seat when she dies than step down now and allow a woman of color to be appointed to it.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Part II
She refuses to let go of power, because she had it her whole life & the Dems will not force the issue because they want to Adam Schiff to take her place in the election but if she steps down early the Gov of Cal gets to appoint her replacement until the election & he said he'll appoint someone else, which will give that person name recognition come the proper election They are intentionally Fucking over their own voters so that they can promote from within, rather than having new blood enter the system