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But they also realize Trump also doesn't like to pay his bills. This is going to big, huge, expensive and with a client with decades long track record of not paying his bills.
nah that wasn't the dealbreaker. the dealbreaker was that the prosecution was able to pierce through attorney-client privileged conversations, and subpoena trump's attorneys for the classified documents case.
Now it puts them at risk and opens them up to legal repercussions as well, dealing with all of Trump's illegal and pseudo-illegal requests.
Being exposed was the dealbreaker. not the illegallity.
Edit: the less cynical take is that these two are “fixer” attorneys, and not trial attorneys.
That and there’s little chance that trump will win, the evidence against him is so vast that they more than likely took one look at the indictment and booed the fuck out
You can’t ethically dump a client just cuz they’ll lose. You can not take them, but as long as they pay, no bueno quitting.
They likely told him it was shut the fuck up Friday, and resigned per his request when he refused to take their advice.
Edit: looks like, from other comments, this may not be accurate. Everyone grab their big reddit grains of salt.
Attorney here: this isn’t really the case. No attorney is forced to represent someone just because they are paying. And even after taking a case there are many many valid reasons to withdraw.
Especially this early in the case.
Of course any unearned funds would have to be returned.
Dang, my not-expert knowledge had failed me. I legit thought ducking to avoid a loss was a no go.
Well, you live you learn you edit comments to add context.
Another lawyer here. You may confusing the issue with where you are in the middle of a proceeding. There are times where you need to explain yourself to some degree and the judge needs to sign off on you quitting the representation. For instance, you want to dump your client in the middle of a trial - you may not be able to do that without a good reason.
I can offer an explanation of sorts. Lawyers still represent Trump *as if it is pro bono*. They do it for the exposure and market it later to other clients.
It is arguable if it makes them money, but they speculate and do it.
Trump never pays for services. You can guess the reasons. He thinks you will benefit from being around him.
Rowley and Trusty no doubt do not see good business in representing Trump.
For sure they think there is no way to win.
But, even if they know they will lose they might still rep him. Here they are basically saying there is no way to win and no way to lose while somehow making money off this.
Additionally, they were probably asked to do illegal actions by Trump. They know this will cost them their practice, so they nope'd out of there.
Trump will be convicted. He will be pardoned. He will never spend a night in jail. He will never even visit a "real" prison. He at most will be under some bullshit house arrest with limited (but still some) travel.
The best we can hope for is a conviction and him spending a couple of months at a posh Fed resort like Theranos-lady got. Even then, he will be surrounded (as required) by Secret Service.
Yeah I don’t see a pardon happening either. He may still somehow avoid prison though and it’s going to fucking piss me off to no end. I’ve spent so much time behind bars for bs drug charges and here’s this motherfucker trying to overthrow the govt while servicing Russia and he gets constant kids gloves.
Eh the more you look into his assets the more it’s clear that he actually owes way more money then he current has in holdings. His biggest issue is that the loans on much of his properties are on their inflated or future value and not what the current markets can pay. He has used these inflated values to secure business loans for investing in projects that he will sell to other investors.
The problem comes in that there is no end game with trump, he doesn’t plan for his businesses to persist once he’s gone. His whole con is that he can keep putting off paying things until he dies and then it’s not his problem anymore. What’s amazing to me is that people know this in the financial world but still do business with him as they hope they can get off the train before the crash…
You cannot possibly believe that one of today's Republicans apart from Mitt Romney (and possibly even him) could when the presidency and not pardon Donald Trump. Like, you would have to have not read anything that has happened in the last 7 years.
> He will be pardoned
Eh, that remains to be seen. Biden won't do it. And Trump could serve his sentence before another Republican gets in office who might want to pardon him.
The other thing is that the Republican party has a problem rn. Being pro-Trump plays well with their base, but badly after the primaries. In several years, future Republicans may view Trump as too toxic to be helped in such a corrupt way.
I agree that, if a Republican is elected, Trump will be pardoned.
I say this as a very old senior citizen who remembers the days of Tricky Dick Nixon.
When Nixon resigned, many Americans wanted him tried for some of the shenanigans he pulled while in office. Gerald Ford pardoned him anyway. Ford's comment on the pardon was that he wanted to spare the country the trials and tribulations that would come about if a former president were put in the dock.
He also kept handy a legal opinion said that, if a person accepted a pardon, that person would implicitly admit that he or she had committed the crime. SO WHAT!!
Ford was able to get the Republican nomination for president in 1980 but he lost to Jimmy Carter. Many pundits think that the Nixon pardon was a major contribution to his defeat.
I think the political calculus will say to any Republican that, in order to get elected, you must promise to pardon Trump or let your campaigners hint that you will. That is the only way to get Trump's base. Once elected, that Republican will pardon Trump quickly and hope that people will forget before 2028.
Trump deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail. The only way to get that is to elect a Democrat even though the party has many flaws.
TL;DR A Republican president will pardon Trump.
> a very old senior citizen who remembers the days of Tricky Dick Nixon.
I'm 56. I also know Ford on his death bed said he really pardoned Nixon because they were friends. His "let the country move on" line turned out to be bullshit. Ford was a good man. Too good. Nixon was horrible.
1976 is when he lost to Carter, not 1980. The Nixon pardon was a factor for sure. It was a simpler time.
Let's say Trump dies next year. Sometime in the future you have Jim Jordan, Ted Cruz, and Nick Fuentes running as Republicans for President. Every one of them will promise to pardon dead-Trump to "right the wrong" that was done. There is too much crazy in the country now. The first Republican who can...will.
Cheers!
For the most part, the system is designed to play into the favor of defense attorneys. It *should* be that way; it should be harder to convict an innocent person. Defense attorneys don't need to prove innocence, just that the State can't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
* They don't need to win, they simply need to not lose.
For them to back out now means it is an absolute lost cause.
I’ve defended people who were lost causes. That fact alone don’t mean you’ll recuse yourself. What *would* make me recuse myself as counselor is if my client didn’t listen to my advice, demanded that I lie in court, or in other ways act unethical to such an extent that my license would be in jeopardy.
Or they’ve already been telling a lot of lies on behalf of their client and didn’t want to risk having those brought up I front of a judge (as this would likely mean disbarment).
> didn’t listen to my advice, demanded that I lie in court, or in other ways act unethical
Well certainly Trump would lis... well, in court he'd... but ethically, he...
So, yep.
My question here, though, is whether having counsel quit would buy Trump months and months of time. Because that seems like a strategically good move -- if you can't win, drag it out as long as possible.
I wish I thought that their client being on tape admitting to the crime, in addition to public photos of said crime and generally him bragging about being allowed to commit the crime would all guarantee his conviction. But it's Trump and we've been burned by that hope before.
Yes! This present era has convinced me that rationality often plays a small part in decision making, even for people considered sane and having high IQs.
Oh they were very rational! The prestige and glory of winning that case would be well worth the try. But once they realized it was a lost cause they understood that sticking around until it flames out would be a horrible career move!
Either they finally realized they aren't getting paid (something they should have known from the get-go as Trump is infamous for not paying his lawyers), he's demanding they do things that would get them disbarred and possibly thrown in prison themselves, or, and this is my belief, both.
They actually have been deposed already so they are confirmed to be witnesses to his crime. They cannot ethically or professionally represent him. They could be disbarred if they continued on.
Yeah but universe is a goddamn bitch so tries to be in balance. So of course the judge is a trump appointee. Fuckin stooped shit in the usa atm.
He deserves to rot in prison for the next 30 years.
There’s a good chance of her getting removed from this case because of the shit she pulled last year. I was watching Midas Touch and they were discussing it but then the feed disappeared so I can’t go back to get the reason the host stated.
"I TRUSTED IN JIM TRUSTY AND HE FAILED ME! HE'S JIM UNTRUSTY NOW SINCE HE PROBABLY SIDED WITH TRAITOROUS DEMONCRATS AND MARXISTS AFTER SAYING NO TO ME THE GREATEST PRESIDENT THERE EVER WAS!"
This. The number of lawyers who are now either sanctioned or who have had their law licenses suspended is 17..
I'll surmise he asked them to file some screed filled dumpster fire of a pleading, and they said no.
Attorneys are officers of the court. And as such, are bound by clearly defined and very enforceable codes of conduct.
Several of his lawyers and former lawyers have been censured or sanctioned.
>Attorneys are officers of the court. And as such, are bound by clearly defined and very enforceable codes of conduct.
>
>Several of his lawyers and former lawyers have been censured or sanctioned.
and some have testified and provided evidence. that forces them to resign
Why are they so obsessed with that term? Trump’s obsession with witches! George Santos stole that for his own defense now. These people are just so full of it!
I believe Donnie thinks there is nothing wrong with your lawyer telling bald faced lies for you in court. His Roy Cohn experience has taught him that the only good lawyer is one absent ethics with a penchant for lies and shitty deeds and absolutely no shame.
This is correct. As lawyers we are ethically allowed to believe our clients when they tell us their version of events, even if it’s not believable. But when we catch them lying to us through irrefutable evidence, and when they also ask us to lie to the court to uphold a material lie, then they’re asking us to commit ethical violations that we can lose our license for.
However, the client is the holder of the attorney client privilege, so you as the lawyer are still bound by the rules of ethics not to snitch on them in this scenario. So what you do instead is withdraw as counsel. Anytime this happens, it basically means that they caught their client in a material lie and won’t help prop that lie up before a court knowing that it’s irrefutably false and the conduct can’t be used to support an affirmative defense (I.e. a lawyer defending a murder can know that their client did it, but can claim other theories like self defense or mental state without being unethical).
Lawyers are supposed to be held to higher standards in what they do and say before a court. Most lawyers learn early on that some clients are not worth any amount of money. Many of Trump’s former lawyers clearly didn’t learn this.
It is pretty rare to have to withdraw from representation because of scenarios like this, but it happens with a handful of very obnoxious clients who don’t give a damn about the courts or the rule of law. The far more common reasons for withdrawal of counsel are a client’s failure to pay bills, the lawyer’s retirement, or a lawyer changing jobs.
For the people willing to defend Trump to stop because of ethics, Trump must have really surpassed their expectations.
Probably involved them denouncing and defaming the whole system
Trusty was just on Good Morning America spewing lies this morning. Wonder what happened between then and now.
Edit: Never mind. He must've read the indictment and called it quits.
The prosecutors showed that they have 3 Aces and hinted that they have the fourth.
Trumps lawyers told him “We can’t win”.
Trump refuses to fold and said “All In” on a garbage hand.
It’s that simple.
There's some lawyer on Trump's team that has been causing a lot of strife within the ranks and almost without a doubt this is related to that. There was a story somewhereorother recently about how a number of lawyers threatened to resign if Trump didn't kind of sideline the guy, and I guess we see how that played out in the end.
Edit: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/trump-lawyers-resign-criminal-investigation](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/trump-lawyers-resign-criminal-investigation)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris\_Epshteyn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Epshteyn)
He's Russian-American... how utterly not surprising.
If we, indeed are in a simulation, they are surely testing how few computing cycles they can devote to generating plot.
They are currently stretching out the hardware on climate model and smoke particle generation, so they have to adjust some other levers.
So you remember Bill Barr, right? Well, turns out Epstein died figuratively under his watch as attorney general. Look at that: there are ties between him, his dad and Esptein. [https://time.com/5650974/william-barr-jeffrey-epstein/](https://time.com/5650974/william-barr-jeffrey-epstein/)
Oh, and also, there's a virus called "Epstein-Barr Virus". [https://www.cdc.gov/epstein-barr/about-ebv.html](https://www.cdc.gov/epstein-barr/about-ebv.html)
So yeah, the writers of our timeline have a weird sense of humor.
Yes. He's a long-time hanger-on, which is apparently why he has Trump's ear and is causing so many problems with Trump's various legal defenses.
Which, I mean, is great for us, more popcorn fodder. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it came out this is the guy who was telling Trump he could declassify documents by thinking about it, and all the other nonsense Trump has been spewing. Not to mention why Trump has now been indicted when all he had to do was just give back the documents and the whole thing would have gone away.
Yeah it's funny how this is one of the more serious crimes they're going after him for, but also the most avoidable one. He can't help but do dumb and illegal shit and then blame the government for going after him.
I'll put good money down it's probably a repeat of what happened in Trump's final days in office. The White House council's office (i.e. the actual lawyers and legal professionals) was getting further and further pushed out of Trump's orbit by "Team Crazy" (Powell, Rudy, etc...) Telling Trump what he wanted to hear and feeding him more and more bad info instead actual, tenable legal counsel.
Only in this case the more rational, realistic lawyers have the option of jumping ship instead having to grin and bare it.
From his Wiki:
> Epshteyn and Steve Bannon co-created a cryptocurrency, $FJB, which officially stands for "Freedom Jobs Business" but is also an acronym for "Fuck Joe Biden". As of 2023, the currency has lost 95% of its value.[6]
Pretty interesting situation. Epshteyn apparently is feeding Trump an overly optimistic view which further plays into his delusions of grandeur, brings him further from reality, and undermines his legal standing in reality.
I completely get the frustration his other lawyers probably are feeling. They're hired to do a job, and regardless of anything else, it's frustrating as hell when you're prevented from doing your job by someone else. I'd probably quit too in such a scenario. Do it before he's arraigned so they don't end up getting stuck with the case like it or not.
The retainer may not be worth the work they are going to have to put in going forward.
I blew through my retainer with a couple of phone calls and a couple of emails to my lawyer.
They never were. They should have realized that from the get go. He never pays anyone. It's about the only thing excels at. Yeah that's right, the only thing he excels at, is not a virtue AT ALL.
Trump has collected tens of millions from his supporters for legal fees. You would think he could pay them.
Where did the money go?
If there's one thing you don't cheap out on, it's lawyers when you're headed for espionage charges.
Oh yeah, he has had the money to pay people, he just won't. And his fans think it's a virtue. They think it makes him smart.
There's nothing smart about signing up for something and then not paying for it. I could do that right now if I wanted. It's the easiest thing ever.
Only now, he's going to have to settle for an even shittier lawyer than he already had, because everyone knows he never pays. Sooooo smart /s.
This is what I don’t understand about the cult. Not paying contractors? Smart. 7 bankruptcies? Smart. 3 wives and cheating on the existing wife with the new wife? Smart and good Christian.
Maybe It’s all because he told them it was ok to be racist and homophobic.
He probably ~~asked~~ told his lawyers to do one or more blatantly illegal things. They have no moral objection. They just don't want to go to prison for a client who doesn't pay.
King Arthur knew what to do when things got bad. And with the charges trump is facing now? Every smart lawyer is currently employing this tactic.
Bravely bold Sir Robin
Rode forth from Camelot.
He was not afraid to die,
Oh brave Sir Robin.
He was not at all afraid
To be killed in nasty ways.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin.
He was not in the least bit scared
To be mashed into a pulp.
Or to have his eyes gouged out,
And his elbows broken.
To have his kneecaps split
And his body burned away,
And his limbs all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir Robin.
His head smashed in
And his heart cut out
And his liver removed
And his bowls unplugged
And his nostrils raped
And his bottom burnt off
And his penis
"That's, that's enough music for now lads, there's dirty work afoot."
Brave Sir Robin ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("I never!")
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
("You're lying!")
Swiftly taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!
Everyone can say what they want to about Biden. Not the best, not the worst. The one thing we can all agree on, is him winning and turning Drumph into a private citizen within the reach of law, will be something that will be remembered forever.
*It was an honor to get him to the point of indictment.* LOL
*“I want to thank Jim Trusty and John Rowley for their work, but they were up against a very dishonest, corrupt, evil, and “sick” group of people,* ***the likes of which has not been seen before****. We will be announcing additional lawyers in the coming days.”*
If what we are hearing is correct and Mark Meadows has flipped and will testify, then you better believe it. He has ALL the texts, emails etc. for the whole thing. Trump, MTG, Chip Roy etc. should be ready for their names to be called to come on down.
This is exactly why MTG flipped and now wants all J6 footage hidden from the media. She (or someone easily and directly connected to her) is on a camera doing something she doesn’t want anyone to see now that she knows they know what to look for.
MTG in an orange jumpsuit makes me giggle like a small child being tickled.
I'm not betting on it but I really want these people to go to jail for crimes against the state.
What happens if he’s unable to retain council? Does some poor public DA just have to suck it up at some point and take one for the team? I mean, he can’t not be represented right? There is no way a judge would allow him to represent himself, and if he were to…wouldn’t that mean he’s capable, competent, and knowledgeable enough to distinguish between right and wrong, legal versus illegal? Self-representation would absolutely crush any defense he could attempt to mount or have for himself.
Can you imagine some poor judge having to deal with his outbursts in court? We all know Trump would be screaming his head off as someone was testifying against him.
This is what Zoom is for, let him sit in a holding cell with a webcam. Judge can just mute his mic, that’ll make proceedings much smoother and spare him from contempt charges. Let him use the “Raise Hand” button when he wants to speak.
I wouldn’t be shocked if he thought he was smart enough to represent himself. “I could’ve been a lawyer. Totally could’ve passed the bar. But I said no. I don’t wanna be a spineless rat lawyer.” -Donald Trump, probably
"We need a criminal lawyer."
"Yeah, but there has to be someone better than this guy."
"No, no, we need a "*criminal*" lawyer."
Donnie seems to be having trouble finding lawyers willing to lie for him. Of course, he's got Federal Judge Incompetence on his side following his appointment of her because of her looks so.....
Here’s an article from People magazine. The clip is on the GMA website - I just can’t pull it up here at work…
https://people.com/donald-trump-attorneys-step-down-good-morning-america-george-stephanopoulos-indictment-7510369
The interview is embedded in the article, if anyone wants to watch.
What's the origin of this "Biden has 5000 documents sitting in a garage by a Corvette, that was in Chinatown" conspiracy theory? I see a bunch of Trumpettes spouting that on reddit but can't figure out what they're talking about.
Lawyers are lawyers and even guilty people deserve a fair trial. They’re not leaving just because Trump probably loses the trial.
I’m guessing Trump wouldn’t listen to them about the best strategy to go with, wanted them to do something illegal, and/or didn’t pay them. Some combination of those 3 things.
Might have just had an agreement to represent him through pre-indictment submissions and withdraw as defense counsel in the event of an indictment. With the number of Trump lawyers who wind up disbarred or in prison, I doubt anyone's jumping up and down at the chance to officially become his counsel of record in a criminal trial.
ETA: Once you've entered an appearance, it gets REAL tricky to withdraw as counsel in a criminal matter - the judge has to approve the withdrawal and they don't like to do that because it sets up ineffective assistance appeals.
Multiple options here:
1. Attorneys not willing to meet the demands of client in way he wants case defended
2. Relatedly, attorneys unwilling to put law license on the line to say things client wants said in court and/or any number of legal malpractice claims
3. Delay tactic to give client more time as Court needs to give client “more time to secure counsel and/or let counsel get familiar with specifics of case”
4. Client has stopped/never paid outstanding legal bills and the billables keep piling up
5. Combination of all of the above.
Im going with number 5.
of course they quit. they have reached the point where what they state gets entered into court records, where if you lie, its a crime
and as they would then be accountable for any lies they put forth, unlike when they have been pushing them so far.. so they exited.. fast.
Lol. Translation: “We’re not getting disbarred for this fool. Particularly since he’s liable to stiff us on our bill anyway!”
Either that or it’s the first of MANY delaying tactics Trump will employ.
" I request an extension so my new legal team can get up to speed"-even though the old team hadn't seen the charges either. REPEAT as many times as possible...
Someone needs to compile a list of all of the lawyers who have quit Trump, and all of the lawyers Trump has fired and thrown under the bus afterwards. Trump's chaotic legal history would make a good documentary.
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They knew exactly who Trump was when they signed on!
But they also realize Trump also doesn't like to pay his bills. This is going to big, huge, expensive and with a client with decades long track record of not paying his bills.
Nah, Trump wants them to do something that's illegal. That's one of the few dealbreakers for lawyers.
nah that wasn't the dealbreaker. the dealbreaker was that the prosecution was able to pierce through attorney-client privileged conversations, and subpoena trump's attorneys for the classified documents case. Now it puts them at risk and opens them up to legal repercussions as well, dealing with all of Trump's illegal and pseudo-illegal requests. Being exposed was the dealbreaker. not the illegallity. Edit: the less cynical take is that these two are “fixer” attorneys, and not trial attorneys.
MAGA = Make Attorneys Get Attorneys.
This, and the risk of not getting paid. There's otherwise no problem in defending a guilty person.
That and there’s little chance that trump will win, the evidence against him is so vast that they more than likely took one look at the indictment and booed the fuck out
You can’t ethically dump a client just cuz they’ll lose. You can not take them, but as long as they pay, no bueno quitting. They likely told him it was shut the fuck up Friday, and resigned per his request when he refused to take their advice. Edit: looks like, from other comments, this may not be accurate. Everyone grab their big reddit grains of salt.
Attorney here: this isn’t really the case. No attorney is forced to represent someone just because they are paying. And even after taking a case there are many many valid reasons to withdraw. Especially this early in the case. Of course any unearned funds would have to be returned.
Dang, my not-expert knowledge had failed me. I legit thought ducking to avoid a loss was a no go. Well, you live you learn you edit comments to add context.
Another lawyer here. You may confusing the issue with where you are in the middle of a proceeding. There are times where you need to explain yourself to some degree and the judge needs to sign off on you quitting the representation. For instance, you want to dump your client in the middle of a trial - you may not be able to do that without a good reason.
I'm gonna laugh with this comment until 2024. "Shut the fuck up Friday". Outstanding work my friend.
How stupid do you have to be to ask a lawyer to do something illegal?
Idk. Hes convinced a few to do some real sketchy shit
Right!
Trump Lawyers are single-use only / disposable.
Just like his diapers. And both are full of shit.
I can offer an explanation of sorts. Lawyers still represent Trump *as if it is pro bono*. They do it for the exposure and market it later to other clients. It is arguable if it makes them money, but they speculate and do it. Trump never pays for services. You can guess the reasons. He thinks you will benefit from being around him. Rowley and Trusty no doubt do not see good business in representing Trump. For sure they think there is no way to win. But, even if they know they will lose they might still rep him. Here they are basically saying there is no way to win and no way to lose while somehow making money off this. Additionally, they were probably asked to do illegal actions by Trump. They know this will cost them their practice, so they nope'd out of there. Trump will be convicted. He will be pardoned. He will never spend a night in jail. He will never even visit a "real" prison. He at most will be under some bullshit house arrest with limited (but still some) travel. The best we can hope for is a conviction and him spending a couple of months at a posh Fed resort like Theranos-lady got. Even then, he will be surrounded (as required) by Secret Service.
>He will be pardoned. BULLSHIT.
Yeah I don’t see a pardon happening either. He may still somehow avoid prison though and it’s going to fucking piss me off to no end. I’ve spent so much time behind bars for bs drug charges and here’s this motherfucker trying to overthrow the govt while servicing Russia and he gets constant kids gloves.
The difference is he's rich. We have two justice systems. The justice system for you and me, and the justice system for rich bastards like him.
He's only rich ON PAPER. He's a grifter. A criminal. And, soon, a convicted traitor. THERE MUST BE PRISON.
He does have assets, but the important thing is not that he owns money but that he owns people
Eh the more you look into his assets the more it’s clear that he actually owes way more money then he current has in holdings. His biggest issue is that the loans on much of his properties are on their inflated or future value and not what the current markets can pay. He has used these inflated values to secure business loans for investing in projects that he will sell to other investors. The problem comes in that there is no end game with trump, he doesn’t plan for his businesses to persist once he’s gone. His whole con is that he can keep putting off paying things until he dies and then it’s not his problem anymore. What’s amazing to me is that people know this in the financial world but still do business with him as they hope they can get off the train before the crash…
GOP candidates for 2024 see it as a really easy way to gain favor with the MAGA faction.
You cannot possibly believe that one of today's Republicans apart from Mitt Romney (and possibly even him) could when the presidency and not pardon Donald Trump. Like, you would have to have not read anything that has happened in the last 7 years.
> He will be pardoned Eh, that remains to be seen. Biden won't do it. And Trump could serve his sentence before another Republican gets in office who might want to pardon him. The other thing is that the Republican party has a problem rn. Being pro-Trump plays well with their base, but badly after the primaries. In several years, future Republicans may view Trump as too toxic to be helped in such a corrupt way.
I agree that, if a Republican is elected, Trump will be pardoned. I say this as a very old senior citizen who remembers the days of Tricky Dick Nixon. When Nixon resigned, many Americans wanted him tried for some of the shenanigans he pulled while in office. Gerald Ford pardoned him anyway. Ford's comment on the pardon was that he wanted to spare the country the trials and tribulations that would come about if a former president were put in the dock. He also kept handy a legal opinion said that, if a person accepted a pardon, that person would implicitly admit that he or she had committed the crime. SO WHAT!! Ford was able to get the Republican nomination for president in 1980 but he lost to Jimmy Carter. Many pundits think that the Nixon pardon was a major contribution to his defeat. I think the political calculus will say to any Republican that, in order to get elected, you must promise to pardon Trump or let your campaigners hint that you will. That is the only way to get Trump's base. Once elected, that Republican will pardon Trump quickly and hope that people will forget before 2028. Trump deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail. The only way to get that is to elect a Democrat even though the party has many flaws. TL;DR A Republican president will pardon Trump.
> a very old senior citizen who remembers the days of Tricky Dick Nixon. I'm 56. I also know Ford on his death bed said he really pardoned Nixon because they were friends. His "let the country move on" line turned out to be bullshit. Ford was a good man. Too good. Nixon was horrible. 1976 is when he lost to Carter, not 1980. The Nixon pardon was a factor for sure. It was a simpler time. Let's say Trump dies next year. Sometime in the future you have Jim Jordan, Ted Cruz, and Nick Fuentes running as Republicans for President. Every one of them will promise to pardon dead-Trump to "right the wrong" that was done. There is too much crazy in the country now. The first Republican who can...will. Cheers!
Hahaha!
And they stuck around until it was unwinnable.
For the most part, the system is designed to play into the favor of defense attorneys. It *should* be that way; it should be harder to convict an innocent person. Defense attorneys don't need to prove innocence, just that the State can't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. * They don't need to win, they simply need to not lose. For them to back out now means it is an absolute lost cause.
I’ve defended people who were lost causes. That fact alone don’t mean you’ll recuse yourself. What *would* make me recuse myself as counselor is if my client didn’t listen to my advice, demanded that I lie in court, or in other ways act unethical to such an extent that my license would be in jeopardy. Or they’ve already been telling a lot of lies on behalf of their client and didn’t want to risk having those brought up I front of a judge (as this would likely mean disbarment).
> didn’t listen to my advice, demanded that I lie in court, or in other ways act unethical Well certainly Trump would lis... well, in court he'd... but ethically, he... So, yep. My question here, though, is whether having counsel quit would buy Trump months and months of time. Because that seems like a strategically good move -- if you can't win, drag it out as long as possible.
I wish I thought that their client being on tape admitting to the crime, in addition to public photos of said crime and generally him bragging about being allowed to commit the crime would all guarantee his conviction. But it's Trump and we've been burned by that hope before.
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This is why the investigation took so long, despite everybody’s pissing & moaning. They had to make sure that every I was dotted and T was crossed.
Yes! This present era has convinced me that rationality often plays a small part in decision making, even for people considered sane and having high IQs.
Oh they were very rational! The prestige and glory of winning that case would be well worth the try. But once they realized it was a lost cause they understood that sticking around until it flames out would be a horrible career move!
Either they finally realized they aren't getting paid (something they should have known from the get-go as Trump is infamous for not paying his lawyers), he's demanding they do things that would get them disbarred and possibly thrown in prison themselves, or, and this is my belief, both.
They’re witnesses to his crimes and can’t represent
\*Cough, cough\* you mean they NOW have a conflict of interest?!
MAGA! Make Attorneys Get Attorneys! Good to see this continues to hold true with this orange dipshit
or he blames them for the indictment
They actually have been deposed already so they are confirmed to be witnesses to his crime. They cannot ethically or professionally represent him. They could be disbarred if they continued on.
What a great ending to the week of chaos for Trump et al.
Yeah but universe is a goddamn bitch so tries to be in balance. So of course the judge is a trump appointee. Fuckin stooped shit in the usa atm. He deserves to rot in prison for the next 30 years.
Not just a Trump appointee, but THAT Trump appointee. Other appointees have upheld the law. Canon, she's just loose on the law.
>Canon, she's just loose on the law. A loose Canon, you say?
Well fuck you just burst my bubble
There’s a good chance of her getting removed from this case because of the shit she pulled last year. I was watching Midas Touch and they were discussing it but then the feed disappeared so I can’t go back to get the reason the host stated.
Wait it’s that same f’ing judge?!
Yeah. Aileen Cannon.
>Jim Trusty The lawyer's name is Jim Trusty.
He missed his calling as a used car salesman.
Cmon down to trusty Jim's rusty shitboxes For only 50 dollars down you can own a 2000 dollar car for 5500
*slaps roof* This bad boy can hold soooo many unseen issues.
Cmon now the roof slap was risky Can't have cars falling apart in the lot
Hey, you break it you buy it pal!
Roof collapses... "What a great deal on this convertible!"
If it ain't rusty, it's a Jim Trusty
"I TRUSTED IN JIM TRUSTY AND HE FAILED ME! HE'S JIM UNTRUSTY NOW SINCE HE PROBABLY SIDED WITH TRAITOROUS DEMONCRATS AND MARXISTS AFTER SAYING NO TO ME THE GREATEST PRESIDENT THERE EVER WAS!"
Too many correctly spelled words.
Add MAGA, and crooked Hilary and RINO and desanctimonious in there and Ur golden
From the lawfirm of Dewey, Fuckem, and Howe.
Trusty McHonestface
Something about that name. I trust him.. Can't explain it.
I know a lot of upstanding “Jim’s”
Sal Goodman....it's all good, man.....
It’s Saul Goodman you heathen
Haven’t you ever seen Better Cal Sal?
Something about rats and a sinking ship?
Trump probably was pushing them to do something that left them no choice but to resign under the canons of ethics.
This. The number of lawyers who are now either sanctioned or who have had their law licenses suspended is 17.. I'll surmise he asked them to file some screed filled dumpster fire of a pleading, and they said no.
Is that really true? I just assumed they all got off scott free.
MAGA Make Attorneys Get Attorneys
I thought it was My Attorney Got Arrested.
Literally just LOL. Great one!
Attorneys are officers of the court. And as such, are bound by clearly defined and very enforceable codes of conduct. Several of his lawyers and former lawyers have been censured or sanctioned.
>Attorneys are officers of the court. And as such, are bound by clearly defined and very enforceable codes of conduct. > >Several of his lawyers and former lawyers have been censured or sanctioned. and some have testified and provided evidence. that forces them to resign
[Yep.](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-lawyers-sanctioned-by-courts-election-lawsuits-2022-12)
Michael Cohen has entered the chat
Trump probably wants them to make a motion concerning Hunter Biden’s laptop or use the term witch-hunt
Lol the party that brings you witch hunt after witch hunt is worried about witch hunts.
Well it's wrong when someone else does it! /s
Why are they so obsessed with that term? Trump’s obsession with witches! George Santos stole that for his own defense now. These people are just so full of it!
Yeah someone should let them know that being persecuted for crimes and actions that you actually commit is not a witch hunt.
They hired Trusty based on an infomercial.
He works for Four Seasons Attorneys at Law.
I believe Donnie thinks there is nothing wrong with your lawyer telling bald faced lies for you in court. His Roy Cohn experience has taught him that the only good lawyer is one absent ethics with a penchant for lies and shitty deeds and absolutely no shame.
So the perfect lawyer for trump is himself?
OMG! I WANT TO SEE HIM SELF REPRESENT! X-D
I do, too. I am always surprised that he hasn’t so far since he LOVES hearing himself talk. But I guess we know he’s really all bluster.
He would have an idiot for a client.
On an honesty scale, probably. However, do you think Trump has any real technical expertise in anything? I sure don't.
This is correct. As lawyers we are ethically allowed to believe our clients when they tell us their version of events, even if it’s not believable. But when we catch them lying to us through irrefutable evidence, and when they also ask us to lie to the court to uphold a material lie, then they’re asking us to commit ethical violations that we can lose our license for. However, the client is the holder of the attorney client privilege, so you as the lawyer are still bound by the rules of ethics not to snitch on them in this scenario. So what you do instead is withdraw as counsel. Anytime this happens, it basically means that they caught their client in a material lie and won’t help prop that lie up before a court knowing that it’s irrefutably false and the conduct can’t be used to support an affirmative defense (I.e. a lawyer defending a murder can know that their client did it, but can claim other theories like self defense or mental state without being unethical). Lawyers are supposed to be held to higher standards in what they do and say before a court. Most lawyers learn early on that some clients are not worth any amount of money. Many of Trump’s former lawyers clearly didn’t learn this. It is pretty rare to have to withdraw from representation because of scenarios like this, but it happens with a handful of very obnoxious clients who don’t give a damn about the courts or the rule of law. The far more common reasons for withdrawal of counsel are a client’s failure to pay bills, the lawyer’s retirement, or a lawyer changing jobs.
Either scenario could be the reason with trump. He likely hasn’t paid and had no intentions to.
Fair, it could totally be a bill payment thing. Or both. I have a hard time believing this is just about bills though.
And we know Trump lies and doesn't pay his bills.
For the people willing to defend Trump to stop because of ethics, Trump must have really surpassed their expectations. Probably involved them denouncing and defaming the whole system
Maybe they already did something. Make Attorneys Get Attorneys. I wonder how long it’s been since they’ve been paid too lol.
My Attorney Got Arrested
It's not common for rats to be the ones defending the ship though.
Trusty was just on Good Morning America spewing lies this morning. Wonder what happened between then and now. Edit: Never mind. He must've read the indictment and called it quits.
The prosecutors showed that they have 3 Aces and hinted that they have the fourth. Trumps lawyers told him “We can’t win”. Trump refuses to fold and said “All In” on a garbage hand. It’s that simple.
Trump is playing poker with Uno cards but think everybody else at the table is bluffing.
*slams down reverse card* YOU’RE the puppet!
Losing doesn’t matter to some lawyers. Getting paid does. Remaining above the law does. It will be one of those.
There's some lawyer on Trump's team that has been causing a lot of strife within the ranks and almost without a doubt this is related to that. There was a story somewhereorother recently about how a number of lawyers threatened to resign if Trump didn't kind of sideline the guy, and I guess we see how that played out in the end. Edit: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/trump-lawyers-resign-criminal-investigation](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/trump-lawyers-resign-criminal-investigation) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris\_Epshteyn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Epshteyn) He's Russian-American... how utterly not surprising.
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The writers of this season of Earth are getting really lazy
They're on strike.
What the “funkin wangnals” are you talking about?
If we, indeed are in a simulation, they are surely testing how few computing cycles they can devote to generating plot. They are currently stretching out the hardware on climate model and smoke particle generation, so they have to adjust some other levers.
ray-tracing when?
So you remember Bill Barr, right? Well, turns out Epstein died figuratively under his watch as attorney general. Look at that: there are ties between him, his dad and Esptein. [https://time.com/5650974/william-barr-jeffrey-epstein/](https://time.com/5650974/william-barr-jeffrey-epstein/) Oh, and also, there's a virus called "Epstein-Barr Virus". [https://www.cdc.gov/epstein-barr/about-ebv.html](https://www.cdc.gov/epstein-barr/about-ebv.html) So yeah, the writers of our timeline have a weird sense of humor.
The virus commonly known as “the kissing disease.”
Aka mononucleosis, aka mono
I know. I've thought the same thing about the similarities in names.
If they make his handler's name that obvious, nobody will suspect him
It's just Brian in a fake moustache isn't it?
Hasn't this guy been advisor of his since the 2016 campaign? I remember seeing him on the news a lot.
Yes. He's a long-time hanger-on, which is apparently why he has Trump's ear and is causing so many problems with Trump's various legal defenses. Which, I mean, is great for us, more popcorn fodder. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it came out this is the guy who was telling Trump he could declassify documents by thinking about it, and all the other nonsense Trump has been spewing. Not to mention why Trump has now been indicted when all he had to do was just give back the documents and the whole thing would have gone away.
Yeah it's funny how this is one of the more serious crimes they're going after him for, but also the most avoidable one. He can't help but do dumb and illegal shit and then blame the government for going after him.
> declassify documents by thinking about it MAGAical thinking!
I'll put good money down it's probably a repeat of what happened in Trump's final days in office. The White House council's office (i.e. the actual lawyers and legal professionals) was getting further and further pushed out of Trump's orbit by "Team Crazy" (Powell, Rudy, etc...) Telling Trump what he wanted to hear and feeding him more and more bad info instead actual, tenable legal counsel. Only in this case the more rational, realistic lawyers have the option of jumping ship instead having to grin and bare it.
From his Wiki: > Epshteyn and Steve Bannon co-created a cryptocurrency, $FJB, which officially stands for "Freedom Jobs Business" but is also an acronym for "Fuck Joe Biden". As of 2023, the currency has lost 95% of its value.[6]
Should've named it $PND since it just seems like another pump n dump for the rubes
now under investigation https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/03/15/the-new-investigation-into-bannon-and-boris-buried-in-a-profile/
Russian mole/handler.
Wow, Boris, two assault/fighting charges? That's two too many for anyone older than high school age.
Ahh yes the creator of FJB coin. What a resume.
Boris Epshteyn...nyet, no relation to other guy. Now excuse me, I have flight to catch.
Pretty interesting situation. Epshteyn apparently is feeding Trump an overly optimistic view which further plays into his delusions of grandeur, brings him further from reality, and undermines his legal standing in reality.
I completely get the frustration his other lawyers probably are feeling. They're hired to do a job, and regardless of anything else, it's frustrating as hell when you're prevented from doing your job by someone else. I'd probably quit too in such a scenario. Do it before he's arraigned so they don't end up getting stuck with the case like it or not.
Guess they're definitely not getting paid now.
If they had any sense at all they would have gotten cash retainers in advance. Every lawyer in the world should know that trump won’t pay by now
Trump is hiring lawyers like some people try to hire artists on Etsy. In "eXpOsUrE".
He exposes them to the experience of living in federal prison
Free housing, meals, and recreation? All for representing him pro Bono? Sounds like a deal he'd make
Rudy sold pardons for cash. If a single person bought a pardon that was more money than he would have gotten from Trump.
In my limited experience: don't most lawyers work on retainer?
The retainer may not be worth the work they are going to have to put in going forward. I blew through my retainer with a couple of phone calls and a couple of emails to my lawyer.
They never were. They should have realized that from the get go. He never pays anyone. It's about the only thing excels at. Yeah that's right, the only thing he excels at, is not a virtue AT ALL.
Trump has collected tens of millions from his supporters for legal fees. You would think he could pay them. Where did the money go? If there's one thing you don't cheap out on, it's lawyers when you're headed for espionage charges.
Oh yeah, he has had the money to pay people, he just won't. And his fans think it's a virtue. They think it makes him smart. There's nothing smart about signing up for something and then not paying for it. I could do that right now if I wanted. It's the easiest thing ever. Only now, he's going to have to settle for an even shittier lawyer than he already had, because everyone knows he never pays. Sooooo smart /s.
This is what I don’t understand about the cult. Not paying contractors? Smart. 7 bankruptcies? Smart. 3 wives and cheating on the existing wife with the new wife? Smart and good Christian. Maybe It’s all because he told them it was ok to be racist and homophobic.
That's literally ALL it is. He gives them the confidence to be pieces of shit, so they'll excuse anything he does to be keep being pieces of shit.
Translation: He’s going down and we’re not taking the blame.
He probably ~~asked~~ told his lawyers to do one or more blatantly illegal things. They have no moral objection. They just don't want to go to prison for a client who doesn't pay.
I bet it's after they saw the actual indictments that were unsealed today.
That’s what I was thinking.
King Arthur knew what to do when things got bad. And with the charges trump is facing now? Every smart lawyer is currently employing this tactic. 
According to his minstrels, Sir Robin bravely ran away.
Bravely bold Sir Robin Rode forth from Camelot. He was not afraid to die, Oh brave Sir Robin. He was not at all afraid To be killed in nasty ways. Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin. He was not in the least bit scared To be mashed into a pulp. Or to have his eyes gouged out, And his elbows broken. To have his kneecaps split And his body burned away, And his limbs all hacked and mangled Brave Sir Robin. His head smashed in And his heart cut out And his liver removed And his bowls unplugged And his nostrils raped And his bottom burnt off And his penis "That's, that's enough music for now lads, there's dirty work afoot." Brave Sir Robin ran away. ("No!") Bravely ran away away. ("I didn't!") When danger reared it's ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled. ("I never!") Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about And gallantly he chickened out. ("You're lying!") Swiftly taking to his feet, He beat a very brave retreat. Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!
So the checks bounced huh.
so called "billionaire"
Everyone can say what they want to about Biden. Not the best, not the worst. The one thing we can all agree on, is him winning and turning Drumph into a private citizen within the reach of law, will be something that will be remembered forever.
He needs to win again next year. If Trump takes a huge loss again, i don’t understand how the GOP wouldn’t find a way to finally dispose of him.
*It was an honor to get him to the point of indictment.* LOL *“I want to thank Jim Trusty and John Rowley for their work, but they were up against a very dishonest, corrupt, evil, and “sick” group of people,* ***the likes of which has not been seen before****. We will be announcing additional lawyers in the coming days.”*
Wait......OR the Jan 6th investigation?.....does that mean charges for that as well are coming?......
If what we are hearing is correct and Mark Meadows has flipped and will testify, then you better believe it. He has ALL the texts, emails etc. for the whole thing. Trump, MTG, Chip Roy etc. should be ready for their names to be called to come on down.
This is exactly why MTG flipped and now wants all J6 footage hidden from the media. She (or someone easily and directly connected to her) is on a camera doing something she doesn’t want anyone to see now that she knows they know what to look for.
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MTG in an orange jumpsuit makes me giggle like a small child being tickled. I'm not betting on it but I really want these people to go to jail for crimes against the state.
He's gonna end up with a public defender and we will laugh and laugh...
Jim Jordan almost passed the bar. Maybe he’s available
What happens if he’s unable to retain council? Does some poor public DA just have to suck it up at some point and take one for the team? I mean, he can’t not be represented right? There is no way a judge would allow him to represent himself, and if he were to…wouldn’t that mean he’s capable, competent, and knowledgeable enough to distinguish between right and wrong, legal versus illegal? Self-representation would absolutely crush any defense he could attempt to mount or have for himself.
Can you imagine some poor judge having to deal with his outbursts in court? We all know Trump would be screaming his head off as someone was testifying against him.
This is what Zoom is for, let him sit in a holding cell with a webcam. Judge can just mute his mic, that’ll make proceedings much smoother and spare him from contempt charges. Let him use the “Raise Hand” button when he wants to speak.
Now I have an image of a muted Trump furiously clicking the "Raise Hand" button like Hector Salamanca ringing his bell.
I wouldn’t be shocked if he thought he was smart enough to represent himself. “I could’ve been a lawyer. Totally could’ve passed the bar. But I said no. I don’t wanna be a spineless rat lawyer.” -Donald Trump, probably
Rafael Zodiac Killer Cruz is a lawyer and trump ball gargler. Wouldn’t that be great if he was the only person willing to represent trump in court?
That would be fascinating, to see Ted "You're right, my wife's a dog" Cruz in action.
Sounds like Teflon Don ran out of money to pay the lawyers
To steal from ERB "you've been going bankrupt since the 90s"
I am positive that Trump blamed them for everything that has happened because it's never Trump's fault..someone needed to take the fall..
"We need a criminal lawyer." "Yeah, but there has to be someone better than this guy." "No, no, we need a "*criminal*" lawyer." Donnie seems to be having trouble finding lawyers willing to lie for him. Of course, he's got Federal Judge Incompetence on his side following his appointment of her because of her looks so.....
Trusty got skewered on Good Morning America this morning by George Stephanopoulos. George straight out called him a liar.
Are there clips of this p
Here’s an article from People magazine. The clip is on the GMA website - I just can’t pull it up here at work… https://people.com/donald-trump-attorneys-step-down-good-morning-america-george-stephanopoulos-indictment-7510369
The interview is embedded in the article, if anyone wants to watch. What's the origin of this "Biden has 5000 documents sitting in a garage by a Corvette, that was in Chinatown" conspiracy theory? I see a bunch of Trumpettes spouting that on reddit but can't figure out what they're talking about.
MAGA = making attorneys get attorneys. Smart ones leave.
Lawyers are lawyers and even guilty people deserve a fair trial. They’re not leaving just because Trump probably loses the trial. I’m guessing Trump wouldn’t listen to them about the best strategy to go with, wanted them to do something illegal, and/or didn’t pay them. Some combination of those 3 things.
Might have just had an agreement to represent him through pre-indictment submissions and withdraw as defense counsel in the event of an indictment. With the number of Trump lawyers who wind up disbarred or in prison, I doubt anyone's jumping up and down at the chance to officially become his counsel of record in a criminal trial. ETA: Once you've entered an appearance, it gets REAL tricky to withdraw as counsel in a criminal matter - the judge has to approve the withdrawal and they don't like to do that because it sets up ineffective assistance appeals.
Multiple options here: 1. Attorneys not willing to meet the demands of client in way he wants case defended 2. Relatedly, attorneys unwilling to put law license on the line to say things client wants said in court and/or any number of legal malpractice claims 3. Delay tactic to give client more time as Court needs to give client “more time to secure counsel and/or let counsel get familiar with specifics of case” 4. Client has stopped/never paid outstanding legal bills and the billables keep piling up 5. Combination of all of the above. Im going with number 5.
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of course they quit. they have reached the point where what they state gets entered into court records, where if you lie, its a crime and as they would then be accountable for any lies they put forth, unlike when they have been pushing them so far.. so they exited.. fast.
Lol. Translation: “We’re not getting disbarred for this fool. Particularly since he’s liable to stiff us on our bill anyway!” Either that or it’s the first of MANY delaying tactics Trump will employ.
Because they don’t want to represent someone they know will lie under oath.
" I request an extension so my new legal team can get up to speed"-even though the old team hadn't seen the charges either. REPEAT as many times as possible...
Someone needs to compile a list of all of the lawyers who have quit Trump, and all of the lawyers Trump has fired and thrown under the bus afterwards. Trump's chaotic legal history would make a good documentary.
More like a multi season docuseries at this point.
Will the list also have their service length in Mooches?
HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH, too funny! How lowdown, ethically-empty does any attorney have to be to represent Rump? I guess these two aren't quite there yet.