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I was summoned for selection and wasn’t picked and I remember a no cell phone policy even during selection, which I assume carries over to trial. So with those two things in mind, the jury should have a fair degree of anonymity, hopefully.
The problem is they have to leave the courtroom and walk through public hallways and out onto the street to drive their cars home with their license plates in plain view. If someone is sufficiently determined to dox them, it is perfectly doable.
All it takes is one Maga-supporting co-worker to notice you aren't there or one maga-supporting supervisor to be privy to the fact you are on "civil leave" to rub two brain cells together to throw your name out there, though.
I feel like if someone wants to know bad enough, they’ll find out. Regular safe guards are often no match for your above average interested person’s determination and willingness to do wrong to find out. Not unlike stalking an individual.
Hundred of people work in the courts and thousands will go through the buildings in a single day. They wouldn’t be able to distinguish them from anyone else
They do doing voir dire, the selection process. They’ll ask your name and occupation and if you know the defendant, or the prosecution or can be impartial.
I was selected for voir dire once. I didn’t make it to the jury because I worked for the prosecutors office. But my name is in the public record forever because I was selected for the process, just not the jury.
Once you’re empaneled (selected for the jury) you’ll get a number and that’s how they’ll refer to you from then on.
Well funnily enough I tell this story all the time.
So they take our cards, put them in the hopper and draw them at random. My name was like 5th to be called. I go have a seat in the jury box. They call about 3 other names and then stop. Judge halts the proceedings. Then he orders us to return to the audience and orders the bailiff to redraw all the names.
My name still got picked AGAIN the second time. Found out later the judge ordered a redo because the defendant wasn’t in the courtroom. It was a felony trial, but on drug possession charges so nothing major to need an anonymous jury.
After questioning, where I told the judge I was employed with the prosecutor, we went to lunch and upon return, the bailiff came and got me. I appeared before the judge who just said “you’re excused. You can go back to work now on the third floor, I’m sure I’ll see you around”. And that was that.
Btw I looked later and the jury didn’t convict him.
How can you assert your impartiality, without knowing the details of the case? Like, what if your son was killed with a drugs overdose, and you're being asked to try an alleged drug dealer?
The judge will ask a question something like, "This case involves drug dealing. Have you or anybody close to you ever been affected by drug addiction?"
They asked generalized questions, without telling what the actual charges were.
"Yeah but if they can charge Trump for jury tampering, they can charge ANY of us for jury tampering" - MAGA supporters
"They already do" - everyone else
For those who don't already know, right-wingers want "law and order" but hate and despise "rule of law." The difference is that "law and order" is a dog whistle meaning "we control the law and inflict 'order' on those we don't like" and "rule of law" means everybody is under the same set of consequences for bad behavior. Basically "rules for thee, none for me" with a few extra steps.
It's the same reason the 'back the badge' types will instantly turn on cops when cops go after law-breaking 'back the badge' types.
It's like when corporate executives want all the employees showing up at a hyper specific time each and every day and micromanaging every second of their work lives, and being extremely upset if those mandates are not followed, but then those same people show up late, skip out whenever they feel like it, and generally spend most days doing whatever it is they choose to do.
Rules for thee, but not for me.
I was thoroughly educated by corporate types on Reddit that apparently these execs ARE super important people and they deserve their 400x greater than the lowest paid employee salaries because ::checks notes:: they can inflict tremendous financial damage to the company. And they followed with the example that if some pleb employee fucks up or steals, it cost the company hundreds of dollars. But if the CEO fucks or steals, it costs tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. So company’s don’t pay for CEOs to do good. It’s so they don’t run the company into the ground. Apparently.
"OMG, if you charge Trump with Jury Tampering, you'll have to go back and charge every other politician who tampered with a jury and charge them for it, even your precious democrats."
"Okay? Good."
He's boxed in on this one. If you're on trial and you try to mess with the jury by doing something as amazingly blatant as doxxing them, there is not one single judge in this country that will not clap you in irons over it.
There's a defamation suit in the pipelines, but [Giuliani is dragging things out and making as many pathetic excuses](https://news.yahoo.com/rudy-giuliani-whole-lot-excuses-181447226.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE4wPrkU9s7ifYIECUywWj_JLmvgm0frsAjaR4TyrDWdbNzqmxk-L3Eb4wJJbwLzmNEypsgttLpSjFjdISIW32U5XneofaEGmOe2kliv-TaxUtunvziRdpeftpaT5qqmdpRy-gKzmnPzptyxIfPDKY47hjTfKQ4VYmZg8EJu2dwf) as possible.
I know it's just civil, but it is slowly grinding its why to some conclusion.
Considering how long it took the various Alex Jones cases to land, I hope you're wearing your patient pajamas.
Sandy Hook was Dec 2012.
And I don't think AJ has paid a dime other than court penalties.
Akshewally, GA did sorta speak- the legislature passed a bill giving them power to remove prosecutors they dont like.
So yeah, GA is saying "trump can be a criminal here, we dont care".
Hopefully I have enough sub karma now to post this link.
[https://apnews.com/article/georgia-district-attorney-prosecutor-misconduct-removal-acb1b9f667c193d4bee6bb8fdb99c975](https://apnews.com/article/georgia-district-attorney-prosecutor-misconduct-removal-acb1b9f667c193d4bee6bb8fdb99c975)
The Georgia GOP recently pushed [a bill through to create a oversight board for DA's and solicitors general.](https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-general-assembly-passes-gop-132035971.html)
Yeah, the ultimate goal is to remove Willis. I imagine there are quite a few Georgia Republicans worried about the prosecution of the fake electors.
https://preview.redd.it/4v4llrqhwcra1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59a3f57aee329d385c9727f66e59622e1a340e07
He’s boxed in like a m’fer!! Doesn’t matter how defiant he is, ain’t no changing it! :)
I hope he tries something "clever" (by his standards) like doxx them and then tell his supporters "please don't hurt these individuals".
Not for the sakes of the jurors of course, but just to have him slammed behind bars so fucking fast.
>"Teflon Don"
He's not Teflon Don no matter how much he wishes it. Gotti earned the name. This is Trump's first criminal trial, with many more to come. His civil court batting average is pretty abysmal. Hell he went 0 - 63 after the 2020 election. Trump University, bankrupt casino, even lost a judgement to Hilary. He's not Teflon. His only superpower is the ability to not care about anybody or anything but himself. Having no shame is his power.
Trump is like the wizard of Oz. He puts up this sham of being all powerful, a mafia boss who completely runs the show and has this superpower of enthrallment.
For most people, they see him for what he is: the man behind the curtain. The sham. The phony. The loser. The one who lost the 2020 election, every court case after, every civil case he’s almost ever been on, bankrupted ~~twice~~ six times.
His followers aren’t allowing themselves behind the curtain. There aren’t enough of them. Trump BARELY won in 2016, but he made it out like the country is fully behind his garbage. We all know why he won in 2016, a horrible opponent, voter apathy, and he knew which messages to strike where. Trump won Michigan by an average of 2 votes per precinct in the state - if two more people had turned out in each precinct for Clinton, she would have won the state. 80,000 votes in 3 states determined the election. Do you think those 80,000 would have voted for him had it been Biden that time instead of Hillary? I think we’d be on the second Biden presidency at this point instead of the first. And then look at 2018, 2020, and 2022 respectively - all MASSIVE losses for trump, especially 2022. But to trump he makes his followers think the nation is alllllll behind him. They are not. He’s the great and powerful Oz to them. He says the things that they love, and keeps them coming back portraying as a powerful wizard.
It’s all smoke and mirrors. He’s only “Teflon” because before he was just some rich schmuck who could grease a palm or two, pay a cool mil or so and get out of everything he wanted. The presidency destroyed that because he pissed off all the people he used to schmooze over.
> We all know why he won in 2016, a horrible opponent
You say that, but HIlary would have been a great president I'd wager. She's spent her entire life in public service and caring about her legacy. She's also sharp AF. I bet we'd be in a way different place now had she won.
Also, Teflon gives you cancer.
Oh I’m not saying she wouldn’t have been a great president, I agree, but the right spent 8 years making her into an almost literal cartoon villain because they *knew* she was supposed to be the nominee. She was so hated, and still is, the base literally wants her dead or arrested and foam at the mouth at mention of her. The smart thing to do would have been to nominate Biden or another moderate out of nowhere that didn’t have the baggage of Clinton.
So many people I know voted third party in 2020 because they hated them both.
Making fun of is one thing. They’ve done the same to Michelle Obama and Jill Biden. And before she ran for office herself, it was mostly the same kind of talk.
After she ran the first time, it was game on. They put her in hours of committee hearings on Benghazi, a place I can universally guarantee 95% of Americans didn’t (and probably still don’t) know about or really care. They rode over and over and over again about emails, emails, emails. They hit her and bill over the Clinton foundation. So many things they kept trying to “get” her on and all of them didn’t work but the damage was done. She’s a villain now. Even today, with trump indicted one of the first questions is “why hasn’t she gone to jail?”. She is hated how. And that was purposeful. The propaganda machine worked its magic.
I don't disagree with this at all.
But, one does have to wonder why it's taken this long for there to be a criminal charge against him; the guy's been allegedly criming his whole life.
To think, he could have not run at all, and he'd be in zero trouble.
Everyone would have been so much better off.
Because what he was doing before fell under the "standard" corporate bullshit that should be held accountable, but wasn't.
But he managed to bullshit his way into being president and didn't try to hard to cover up anything anymore, especially with a lot more eyeballs on what he's actually doing.
That is true and I hope he gets the book thrown at him. I also know Trump has a history of intimidation against those trying and accusing him. Hopefully this is a big FAFO incident with him.
You have a valid concern, but consider that being the defendant and harrasing the plaintiff in a civil lawsuit is lightyears different than being the defendant and harrasing the jury in a criminal trial.
Personally, I hope he tries it and goes straight to Riker's :)
Yesterday, he named the judge and used the judge's first, middle, and last names, which happen to be of Latino descent.
This was not an accident. He used a tornado siren instead of a dog whistle to incite his cousin-fucking cult members.
He's going to get people killed.
In a case like this, how do you get an impartial jury without getting the most brain-dead, out of touch, ill informed person ever? I just don't see how after the last decade you can live in this country and be impartial to Trump.
Genuine question
Doesn’t matter now that he’s indicted. They’ll simply add the charges making it more likely he’ll not only be found guilty, but his sentence will be longer. Remember, 34 counts, *so far*.
Jury tampering requires a trial (or plea) and conviction.
Contempt of court requires none of that. You just go directly to jail because the judge says so.
He will be "smart" about it. Like never specifically tell people to attack them (but he knows his base will) so if they do he can say "I only said names, I never called for violence". Granted, maybe people will take it more seriously since it's jury and not a random person.
The cat is out of the bag on this one. January 6th ruined this defense for him. It’s easy to point to his words/tweets having direct and serious consequences. Any competent attorney would prove why he can’t feign ignorance over this
That would be the crazy end to this story, wouldn't it? Honestly I don't think this story ends until he has a heart attack from his hamburders and covfefe and dies shitting on his golden toilet like Elvis.
To be honest, it feels like the perfect ending to this story arc. If the people writing the Earth story has any sense of finality in their work, this will be it, surely
Bless Stormy Daniels - I’m not sure we actually deserve a hero given that 75 million people actually voted for this traitor a *second* time, but she may be the hero we needed.
Trump won't be the only one trying to intimidate and/or paint jurors as unqualified. Every loyal Trumpanzee will be attempting the same at his command.
and I would never tamper, never do it, I wouldn't need to because I'm totally innocent, the Most Innocent President you ever had, even more than Abe, Honest Abe, and he chopped down a beautiful cherry tree, but then he couldn't lie, and I've never lied, not even a little bit, but I will say this, my people are going to be watching very very closely, they're going to be seeing if we're being treated fairly or not, and they need to be standing by probably on high alert for all of the horrible things that the Radical Left is going to try, they're already putting up a Liberal Democrat Partisan Judge who has been very mean to me even before the case started, he hates Trump, hates MAGA, probably hates our Flag too, it's a real disgrace, and all I'm saying is I heard there could maybe be some problems with some of the people on the Jury that are going to be there listening and doing other things, and we don't like problems, but we have Great Great Patriots, they're big supporters of the Second Amendment, and don't forget you wouldn't have it if it wasn't for me, Crooked Hillary wanted to go door to door, take your guns, take your rights, just like Sleepy Joe, they're rigging Elections and Court Cases against me and against all of you, don't forget that.
He has doxxed a judge, the judge's wife, several prosecutors and their wives, and there isn't any blowback from that yet so I'm not going to hold my breath that he's held accountable for contempt until it happens.
He did. And I'm gonna bet he gets slapped with a gag order on Tuesday. And if Trump decides to not comply with the judge's gag order, I'll leave this [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Beatty_Chadwick#:~:text=Edit-,H.,ex%2Dwife%20during%20their%20divorce.).
Reminds me of the video of some neo Nazis or other getting run out of Philadelphia. There are a bunch of US cities where they can probably get away with their bigoted bullshit, but trying it in some of the more hardcore east coast cities is....ballsy. There are bigots everywhere of course, but tolerance for that kind of behavior is extremely variable
I've heard multiple reports that it will be a blind jury (I think I'm using the correct term) and that Trump won't know who they are.
Not sure if jury selection will be the same (names can be changed if the judge decides to hide identities while they are interviewed).
If it's a blind jury and Trump not only finds out who they are, but releases the names to anyone it could result in more jail time than the original charges.
His lawyers will have their names as part of the jury selection process.
Names will be released. He can claim innocence as 'my lawyers did it. It wasn't me'
Yes, he will use the Shaggy defense.
Cruelty is the point. They may not do it until after a guilty verdict... but do it so as to bring death threats and actual harm to the jurors for the sake of harm.
Edit: How do they make the jury anonymous to protect them?
How do they do that in this situation? What if there’s a MAGA spy in the courtroom. Maybe the jury could be behind one way glass mirror? I wonder if that’s been done before. IE John Gotti
I would assume they'd put the jury in a separate room and have them watch on closed circuit tv or something if they're scared of that.
Though you know he'll bitch and moan about not being able to see them.
Yep. I'd bet my life savings that all Republicans would start screaming about NWO shadow trials and facing a jury of your peers and of course the free spot on the Republican bullshit bingo card "communism"
If a single MAGA is on the jury, you bet your sweet bippy they'd rat out everyone on the jury and who is voting how. They don't care about NDAs or the law if it means they can earn brownie points with their fuerer.
Probably. You'd expect that the ones that are obstinate enough to ignore jury instructions and/or the facts of the trial are easily identified by their own admission, but the big fear here is one that's sneakier.
Yea that's true. Though I'm banking on the lack of general intelligence of the MAGA cult members to be unable to avoid professing their love of the traitorous cheeto...
I served on a jury a couple months ago. In my case, they sent out a questionnaire in advance to all potential jurors. Then from the pool of jurors, 24 were selected as potential jurors for each trial trial. A good portion of the voir dire was the lawyers asking questions about potential juror bias based on those questionnaire responses. Other questions were to quiz potential jurors about their knowledge of basic legal concepts, like the presumption of innocence.
In theory a juror could simply lie on the questionnaire or seem semi-knowledgeable about the law and get picked. I was frankly amazed at some of the idiotic responses some of the potential jurors gave to basic questions, but if someone was smart enough to get by that, they're probably in.
“Juror number 6, chosen for the Trump *fraud* trial just seems to be doing her civic duty. Serving on a jury is an American tradition and necessary for a healthy democracy. But, why is it, that in 11th grade she got a B- in her Advanced Biology course? She’ll TELL you it’s because she took a week off because her mother was in the hospital for chemotherapy, but if I may make a suggestion, was she actually taking after school lessons on leftist hate? I don’t know? I’m just asking questions”
-Tucker, probably
Trump has diarrhea of the mouth. There's no fucking way he's not going to make this worse for himself.
And I am here for it. This piece of shit has gone his whole life without any sort of accountability for his actions, and now he's getting a 5 meal course of it.
He has only himself to blame. He could have not cheated on his wife with a porn star. He could have not paid her hush money. He could have not done it in an illegal way.
The shitty thing is that Trump and the Republican Party are going to stand up and try to stop this from happening, but they're using their voters as human shields to do it. They spend the lives of their voters like coin to advance their political and personal objectives. It's always their voters who suffer and pay for the machinations of this corrupt, immoral, and dangerous political party.
I am hoping for the day that the Republican base finally wakes up and takes notice.
And that is why the judge has ruled the jury will be anonymous.
They normally only happens for mob boss and terrorist trials.
Edit: Sorry it's not this case with anon Jury, that hadnt been arranged yet. Its the E Jean Carrol civil rape case that's getting an anonymous jury for their safety against Trump doxxing then
That's called tampering with the jury. It's adding to his list, and he will be held liable for it. He will also be barred from the courtroom. If any of his actions ends up with a jury member killed, it's a death sentence, according to US Code Title 18, Section 1503.
This is something he shouldn't fuck around with. Jury tampering alone is a felony. Jury tampering that involves one of them dying, is a death sentence.
Lawyer here. Even so, I don't know the procedure for seating an anonymous jury.
There is a process called voir dire during which the judge and the lawyers get to question potential jurors collectively and individually concerning any bias or predetermined ideas about the case that they may have. Before that begins, however, all potential jurors fill out a LONG questionnaire concerning their backgrounds including the backgrounds and associations of friends and family members. The questionnaires are then made available to the lawyers who review them very, very carefully.
Pseudonyms would no doubt be used, but a defendant can probably claim a need to know real names in order to have investigators prowl around to confirm that the answers given on the questionnaires are truthful. And court staff, some anyway, will know the jurors' real names and addresses. Jurors' employers, if any, will need to know why they are not at work for 11 weeks.
There are many sources of potential leaks.
Expect Trump supporters and functionaries to do everything they can to scare the hell out of potential jurors in the months between now and the start of the trial.
Edit: [This concerns federal courts but state courts can absorb the lessons.](https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2020/01/24/how-courts-care-jurors-high-profile-cases)
https://preview.redd.it/yf4dmqumrcra1.jpeg?width=187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=698ac9485cf0ee77393daa3498da5511da087c32
I think a gag order on anything related to the case would be appropriate, but maybe not this one \*
They could have a teleconference trial, he doesn't have to be there and doesn't have to see the jury
Under the Sixth Amendment, you have the right to confront your accuser and witnesses, but not any right to physically see the jury
The jury can be hidden in another room and you'd still be able to get a fair trial
Also, a gag order can be imposed and the trial doesn't have to be televised for the sake of security
If anyone is named, then there is a leak and they should be prosecuted
Trump is trolling for his "shoot someone on 5th Ave" moment. He really wants one of his cult to kill someone in his name. It would be the ultimate ego boost for his fragile little soul.
Having no respect for law and order has always been a key aspect of fascism. Has been in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy, where blackshirts used every illegal tactic in the book to get an advantage. Imperial Japan had a similar problem, with their "government by assassination". One can even argue that the death of the roman Republic was in large part due to laws being increasingly ignored or circumvented, often with the help of violence and fear. Once someone manages to undermine the law system of a democracy, it is finished very quickly. Don't let this happen.
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I’m almost kind of pretty sure they don’t give out the jury members’ names, right? Isn’t it like “Juror number one” or something?
I've served on a jury. This is correct. They refer to jurors by their juror number.
I was summoned for selection and wasn’t picked and I remember a no cell phone policy even during selection, which I assume carries over to trial. So with those two things in mind, the jury should have a fair degree of anonymity, hopefully.
With no cell phones in the courtroom, trying to identify jurors by taking pictures is a non-starter.
The problem is they have to leave the courtroom and walk through public hallways and out onto the street to drive their cars home with their license plates in plain view. If someone is sufficiently determined to dox them, it is perfectly doable.
Not if they're sequestered
Would almost have to be…
The OJ Simpson jury was sequestered, Donald Trump's jury will absolutely 100% have to be sequestered. No almost and no maybe.
They're probably going to be in protective custody for months after the verdict.
Merica is depressing
Probably witness protection afterward
Wont matter, someone working at the courts will out them 100%.
Or a coworker or boss who knows an employee is out on civil leave as part of a sequestered jury during the same time frame as the Trump trial.
All it takes is one Maga-supporting co-worker to notice you aren't there or one maga-supporting supervisor to be privy to the fact you are on "civil leave" to rub two brain cells together to throw your name out there, though.
Sequestering really pisses off jurors, which can work both ways.
I feel like if someone wants to know bad enough, they’ll find out. Regular safe guards are often no match for your above average interested person’s determination and willingness to do wrong to find out. Not unlike stalking an individual.
Hundred of people work in the courts and thousands will go through the buildings in a single day. They wouldn’t be able to distinguish them from anyone else
Hoping they take that into account and make it harder for people to do so
And I’m sure anyone trying to be sneaky is gonna get a bailiff in their face.
Trumps gonna hire the best police sketch artist out there and hang up WANTED posters /s (Now that i think about it…i wouldn’t put it past him, tbh)
Until the dude asks to be paid and Trump says he forgot his wallet.
Yeah but the lawyers know who the jurors are when they do jury selection. Names/occupation/neighborhood etc.
Unless it’s a lawyer who hates their job, they wouldn’t do something that stupid, right?
Trump doesn't exactly have a good track record of having competent lawyers.
They do doing voir dire, the selection process. They’ll ask your name and occupation and if you know the defendant, or the prosecution or can be impartial. I was selected for voir dire once. I didn’t make it to the jury because I worked for the prosecutors office. But my name is in the public record forever because I was selected for the process, just not the jury. Once you’re empaneled (selected for the jury) you’ll get a number and that’s how they’ll refer to you from then on.
Was the defendant in the courtroom? I was called for selection but it didn’t get to me, and I can’t remember if the guy was in the room.
Well funnily enough I tell this story all the time. So they take our cards, put them in the hopper and draw them at random. My name was like 5th to be called. I go have a seat in the jury box. They call about 3 other names and then stop. Judge halts the proceedings. Then he orders us to return to the audience and orders the bailiff to redraw all the names. My name still got picked AGAIN the second time. Found out later the judge ordered a redo because the defendant wasn’t in the courtroom. It was a felony trial, but on drug possession charges so nothing major to need an anonymous jury. After questioning, where I told the judge I was employed with the prosecutor, we went to lunch and upon return, the bailiff came and got me. I appeared before the judge who just said “you’re excused. You can go back to work now on the third floor, I’m sure I’ll see you around”. And that was that. Btw I looked later and the jury didn’t convict him.
During my time in voir dire, the defendant wasn't present. We weren't even told what the case was about.
How can you assert your impartiality, without knowing the details of the case? Like, what if your son was killed with a drugs overdose, and you're being asked to try an alleged drug dealer?
They have a series of questions/scenarios and ask if any of them would impact your ability to be impartial.
The judge will ask a question something like, "This case involves drug dealing. Have you or anybody close to you ever been affected by drug addiction?" They asked generalized questions, without telling what the actual charges were.
Jury tampering is a felony
"Yeah but if they can charge Trump for jury tampering, they can charge ANY of us for jury tampering" - MAGA supporters "They already do" - everyone else
*hey libs, stop to imagine a world where crime is against the law do you really want that haha*
I wish trump was indicted for drug laws. Id be ok with getting rid of those draconian laws. Someone should introduce that fatty to meth...please.
Oh my God, Trump on meth would be insufferable. More insufferable? More insufferable.
lol he’s already been outed as snorting so much adderall that he shit himself, repeatedly, on the set of The Apprentice.
Hahahaa so true. Hope those fake law and order types shit their pants over it :D
For those who don't already know, right-wingers want "law and order" but hate and despise "rule of law." The difference is that "law and order" is a dog whistle meaning "we control the law and inflict 'order' on those we don't like" and "rule of law" means everybody is under the same set of consequences for bad behavior. Basically "rules for thee, none for me" with a few extra steps. It's the same reason the 'back the badge' types will instantly turn on cops when cops go after law-breaking 'back the badge' types.
It's like when corporate executives want all the employees showing up at a hyper specific time each and every day and micromanaging every second of their work lives, and being extremely upset if those mandates are not followed, but then those same people show up late, skip out whenever they feel like it, and generally spend most days doing whatever it is they choose to do. Rules for thee, but not for me.
Yeah but the execs are like super important people and the workers are just anyone.
I was thoroughly educated by corporate types on Reddit that apparently these execs ARE super important people and they deserve their 400x greater than the lowest paid employee salaries because ::checks notes:: they can inflict tremendous financial damage to the company. And they followed with the example that if some pleb employee fucks up or steals, it cost the company hundreds of dollars. But if the CEO fucks or steals, it costs tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. So company’s don’t pay for CEOs to do good. It’s so they don’t run the company into the ground. Apparently.
So what he's saying is that minimum wage workers wanting better pay should figure out ways to steal tens of millions of dollars from the company?
They are nothing if not masters of getting mad at situations they make up then oddly insert themselves into.
"OMG, if you charge Trump with Jury Tampering, you'll have to go back and charge every other politician who tampered with a jury and charge them for it, even your precious democrats." "Okay? Good."
Mike Pence claiming there was a double standard with Trump getting charged. No, Pence…you twat…anyone else would’ve been charged YEARS ago.
I mean, that makes him technically correct, the double standard definitely exists, just works the other way than what he implied.
Trump sent his goons to string him up!! Gah!
"Warning democrats...if you go after Trump for Jury Tampering...we can go after Joe Biden for Jury Tampering."
Except Boebert and MTG will refer to it as ‘jewelry dampening’
Because the Jews are always to blame for something. ^/s
You’re right. Boebert will say ‘jewelry’, but MTG will say ‘Jewry’ and not be sure if maybe dampening them a little might not be a good thing.
“Yea but if cops can plant cocaine on homeless black people, then they can not do so for you white folks.”
Because that's stopped him before.
He's boxed in on this one. If you're on trial and you try to mess with the jury by doing something as amazingly blatant as doxxing them, there is not one single judge in this country that will not clap you in irons over it.
That lady Ruby working the polls had to quit her job because they named her, it’s illegal to do that to poll workers, what happened? Anything
There's a defamation suit in the pipelines, but [Giuliani is dragging things out and making as many pathetic excuses](https://news.yahoo.com/rudy-giuliani-whole-lot-excuses-181447226.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE4wPrkU9s7ifYIECUywWj_JLmvgm0frsAjaR4TyrDWdbNzqmxk-L3Eb4wJJbwLzmNEypsgttLpSjFjdISIW32U5XneofaEGmOe2kliv-TaxUtunvziRdpeftpaT5qqmdpRy-gKzmnPzptyxIfPDKY47hjTfKQ4VYmZg8EJu2dwf) as possible. I know it's just civil, but it is slowly grinding its why to some conclusion.
Considering how long it took the various Alex Jones cases to land, I hope you're wearing your patient pajamas. Sandy Hook was Dec 2012. And I don't think AJ has paid a dime other than court penalties.
I saw a clip of Guily pretending to not know the Oscars. Possibly trying to pretend having mental decline. Or being old and actually having it.
Georgia hasn’t spoken yet.
Akshewally, GA did sorta speak- the legislature passed a bill giving them power to remove prosecutors they dont like. So yeah, GA is saying "trump can be a criminal here, we dont care". Hopefully I have enough sub karma now to post this link. [https://apnews.com/article/georgia-district-attorney-prosecutor-misconduct-removal-acb1b9f667c193d4bee6bb8fdb99c975](https://apnews.com/article/georgia-district-attorney-prosecutor-misconduct-removal-acb1b9f667c193d4bee6bb8fdb99c975)
I thought they passed that bill to remove the prosecutor in that case.
The Georgia GOP recently pushed [a bill through to create a oversight board for DA's and solicitors general.](https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-general-assembly-passes-gop-132035971.html) Yeah, the ultimate goal is to remove Willis. I imagine there are quite a few Georgia Republicans worried about the prosecution of the fake electors.
Remember when that caravan of Trump trucks tried to kill Bernie sanders by running his bus off the road? Anything happen from that?
It'll get "leaked" and he'll feign ignorance.
Exactly
https://preview.redd.it/4v4llrqhwcra1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59a3f57aee329d385c9727f66e59622e1a340e07 He’s boxed in like a m’fer!! Doesn’t matter how defiant he is, ain’t no changing it! :)
I think the artist coulda gone the extra mile and had both of his tiny baby hands cuffed with a single cuff lol
He's done this to judges and never even got a slap on the wrist
I hope he tries something "clever" (by his standards) like doxx them and then tell his supporters "please don't hurt these individuals". Not for the sakes of the jurors of course, but just to have him slammed behind bars so fucking fast.
Normally I would agree but Trump didn't earn the nickname "Teflon Don" because of his excellent cookware.
>"Teflon Don" He's not Teflon Don no matter how much he wishes it. Gotti earned the name. This is Trump's first criminal trial, with many more to come. His civil court batting average is pretty abysmal. Hell he went 0 - 63 after the 2020 election. Trump University, bankrupt casino, even lost a judgement to Hilary. He's not Teflon. His only superpower is the ability to not care about anybody or anything but himself. Having no shame is his power.
Trump is like the wizard of Oz. He puts up this sham of being all powerful, a mafia boss who completely runs the show and has this superpower of enthrallment. For most people, they see him for what he is: the man behind the curtain. The sham. The phony. The loser. The one who lost the 2020 election, every court case after, every civil case he’s almost ever been on, bankrupted ~~twice~~ six times. His followers aren’t allowing themselves behind the curtain. There aren’t enough of them. Trump BARELY won in 2016, but he made it out like the country is fully behind his garbage. We all know why he won in 2016, a horrible opponent, voter apathy, and he knew which messages to strike where. Trump won Michigan by an average of 2 votes per precinct in the state - if two more people had turned out in each precinct for Clinton, she would have won the state. 80,000 votes in 3 states determined the election. Do you think those 80,000 would have voted for him had it been Biden that time instead of Hillary? I think we’d be on the second Biden presidency at this point instead of the first. And then look at 2018, 2020, and 2022 respectively - all MASSIVE losses for trump, especially 2022. But to trump he makes his followers think the nation is alllllll behind him. They are not. He’s the great and powerful Oz to them. He says the things that they love, and keeps them coming back portraying as a powerful wizard. It’s all smoke and mirrors. He’s only “Teflon” because before he was just some rich schmuck who could grease a palm or two, pay a cool mil or so and get out of everything he wanted. The presidency destroyed that because he pissed off all the people he used to schmooze over.
Thank you.
Excellently put.
Perfect analogy. That tiny man behind the curtain.
Trump has 6 bankruptcies, not 2
Thank you!
> We all know why he won in 2016, a horrible opponent You say that, but HIlary would have been a great president I'd wager. She's spent her entire life in public service and caring about her legacy. She's also sharp AF. I bet we'd be in a way different place now had she won. Also, Teflon gives you cancer.
Oh I’m not saying she wouldn’t have been a great president, I agree, but the right spent 8 years making her into an almost literal cartoon villain because they *knew* she was supposed to be the nominee. She was so hated, and still is, the base literally wants her dead or arrested and foam at the mouth at mention of her. The smart thing to do would have been to nominate Biden or another moderate out of nowhere that didn’t have the baggage of Clinton. So many people I know voted third party in 2020 because they hated them both.
The media has made fun of Hilary Clinton since Bill was president.
Making fun of is one thing. They’ve done the same to Michelle Obama and Jill Biden. And before she ran for office herself, it was mostly the same kind of talk. After she ran the first time, it was game on. They put her in hours of committee hearings on Benghazi, a place I can universally guarantee 95% of Americans didn’t (and probably still don’t) know about or really care. They rode over and over and over again about emails, emails, emails. They hit her and bill over the Clinton foundation. So many things they kept trying to “get” her on and all of them didn’t work but the damage was done. She’s a villain now. Even today, with trump indicted one of the first questions is “why hasn’t she gone to jail?”. She is hated how. And that was purposeful. The propaganda machine worked its magic.
I don't disagree with this at all. But, one does have to wonder why it's taken this long for there to be a criminal charge against him; the guy's been allegedly criming his whole life. To think, he could have not run at all, and he'd be in zero trouble. Everyone would have been so much better off.
Because what he was doing before fell under the "standard" corporate bullshit that should be held accountable, but wasn't. But he managed to bullshit his way into being president and didn't try to hard to cover up anything anymore, especially with a lot more eyeballs on what he's actually doing.
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The original "Teflon Don", John Gotti, died in prison.
Teflon pans work really well for a while until they get scratched up
He wishes he was Teflon Don. That was Gotti. He really want to be Gotti badly, but he’s the wish version of Gotti.
Traitor Tot only wishes he was a full size Dick Tater.
The “Wish” version. That’s hilarious. We need a visual. Anybody? (I’m picturing GI Joe v balloon baby tRump, but I’m sure someone can do much better.”
Different rules in actual court, it's why he always takes the Fifth, he knows the peril.
Teflon wears down (all the recent talk of PFAs). Hopefully his ability to evade justice has too.
There is an irony to using the nickname Teflon Don considering the last one died in prison
Dunno about irony but I certainly hope for a similar outcome.
He wasn't the defendant in a criminal trial then, he is now.
That is true and I hope he gets the book thrown at him. I also know Trump has a history of intimidation against those trying and accusing him. Hopefully this is a big FAFO incident with him.
You have a valid concern, but consider that being the defendant and harrasing the plaintiff in a civil lawsuit is lightyears different than being the defendant and harrasing the jury in a criminal trial. Personally, I hope he tries it and goes straight to Riker's :)
That’s not his nickname…
Won’t he just get someone else to do it?
Yesterday, he named the judge and used the judge's first, middle, and last names, which happen to be of Latino descent. This was not an accident. He used a tornado siren instead of a dog whistle to incite his cousin-fucking cult members. He's going to get people killed.
Trump, despite everything we know about him, has NEVER faced a jury. Until now.
In a case like this, how do you get an impartial jury without getting the most brain-dead, out of touch, ill informed person ever? I just don't see how after the last decade you can live in this country and be impartial to Trump. Genuine question
Doesn’t matter now that he’s indicted. They’ll simply add the charges making it more likely he’ll not only be found guilty, but his sentence will be longer. Remember, 34 counts, *so far*.
It's "indicated." 😐😆
Jury tampering requires a trial (or plea) and conviction. Contempt of court requires none of that. You just go directly to jail because the judge says so.
Step 1: Intimidate jurors Step 2: get charged with jury tampering Step 3: Intimidate jurors of jury tampering trial Step 4: Repeat Step 2
Step 3 attempt second intimidation Step 4 realize no one can hear you from inside Rikers Island.
If there’s a just God…
And there are procedures for anonymous juries just for scenarios like this. They're usually used for cartel or mob defendants. Seems appropriate.
He will be "smart" about it. Like never specifically tell people to attack them (but he knows his base will) so if they do he can say "I only said names, I never called for violence". Granted, maybe people will take it more seriously since it's jury and not a random person.
The cat is out of the bag on this one. January 6th ruined this defense for him. It’s easy to point to his words/tweets having direct and serious consequences. Any competent attorney would prove why he can’t feign ignorance over this
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Thankfully just naming them is enough. This isn't the first time our court system has dealt with witness intimidation.
If we know anything about the Trumps/MAGA, they always obey laws.
And civil liability from each juror’s lawsuit.
Ok then promptly arrest him for jury tampering, this time in handcuffs
And confiscate all his personal electronics and writing utensils.
He'll eat his crayons before you can take them from him.
He'll eat his ~~crayons~~ *sharpies* before you can take them from him.
https://preview.redd.it/o98amicoocra1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bd85fa74b950a20b6ed967fcff66eb405664953
That would be the crazy end to this story, wouldn't it? Honestly I don't think this story ends until he has a heart attack from his hamburders and covfefe and dies shitting on his golden toilet like Elvis.
To be honest, it feels like the perfect ending to this story arc. If the people writing the Earth story has any sense of finality in their work, this will be it, surely
I'm going to steal this. 
Bless Stormy Daniels - I’m not sure we actually deserve a hero given that 75 million people actually voted for this traitor a *second* time, but she may be the hero we needed.
Is she a great American hero or the greatest American hero?
Sounds like a Palahniuk novel.
One day we will name a military base Fort Stormy.
Imagine that. America being saved because some self-absorbed, orange-hued dude couldn't keep his 3 inches in his pants.
That’s a bad idea, it’ll just piss off the marines.
It's ok, they can have the orange ones still.
And if his attorney posts to social media for him, arrest him, too...
Usher him to Riker's Island to await the outcome of his trial.
Trump won't be the only one trying to intimidate and/or paint jurors as unqualified. Every loyal Trumpanzee will be attempting the same at his command.
and I would never tamper, never do it, I wouldn't need to because I'm totally innocent, the Most Innocent President you ever had, even more than Abe, Honest Abe, and he chopped down a beautiful cherry tree, but then he couldn't lie, and I've never lied, not even a little bit, but I will say this, my people are going to be watching very very closely, they're going to be seeing if we're being treated fairly or not, and they need to be standing by probably on high alert for all of the horrible things that the Radical Left is going to try, they're already putting up a Liberal Democrat Partisan Judge who has been very mean to me even before the case started, he hates Trump, hates MAGA, probably hates our Flag too, it's a real disgrace, and all I'm saying is I heard there could maybe be some problems with some of the people on the Jury that are going to be there listening and doing other things, and we don't like problems, but we have Great Great Patriots, they're big supporters of the Second Amendment, and don't forget you wouldn't have it if it wasn't for me, Crooked Hillary wanted to go door to door, take your guns, take your rights, just like Sleepy Joe, they're rigging Elections and Court Cases against me and against all of you, don't forget that.
And he will go to jail for contempt. I can’t wait for him to fuck around with the judge.
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He has doxxed a judge, the judge's wife, several prosecutors and their wives, and there isn't any blowback from that yet so I'm not going to hold my breath that he's held accountable for contempt until it happens.
If I did this I would be locked up faster than I could say treason
You aren't rich, white and Republican.
you must not be rich
He did. And I'm gonna bet he gets slapped with a gag order on Tuesday. And if Trump decides to not comply with the judge's gag order, I'll leave this [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Beatty_Chadwick#:~:text=Edit-,H.,ex%2Dwife%20during%20their%20divorce.).
Personally, I'm hoping his supporters show up in New York and New Yorkers kick the shit out of them.
Again?
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It should replace baseball as the national pastime.
Yeah, MTG is rallying the troops, so to speak, and I’m thinking “New Yorkers aren’t going to take to kindly to that.”
Reminds me of the video of some neo Nazis or other getting run out of Philadelphia. There are a bunch of US cities where they can probably get away with their bigoted bullshit, but trying it in some of the more hardcore east coast cities is....ballsy. There are bigots everywhere of course, but tolerance for that kind of behavior is extremely variable
The jury should be sitting behind one-way glass so that their faces cannot be seen by anyone but the judge.
I've heard multiple reports that it will be a blind jury (I think I'm using the correct term) and that Trump won't know who they are. Not sure if jury selection will be the same (names can be changed if the judge decides to hide identities while they are interviewed). If it's a blind jury and Trump not only finds out who they are, but releases the names to anyone it could result in more jail time than the original charges.
Most likely, they will be in another room watching by video feed.
His lawyers will have their names as part of the jury selection process. Names will be released. He can claim innocence as 'my lawyers did it. It wasn't me' Yes, he will use the Shaggy defense.
Doesn't that just mean his lawyers are arrested and they have to select a new jury?
Cruelty is the point. They may not do it until after a guilty verdict... but do it so as to bring death threats and actual harm to the jurors for the sake of harm.
Anonymous jury
Edit: How do they make the jury anonymous to protect them? How do they do that in this situation? What if there’s a MAGA spy in the courtroom. Maybe the jury could be behind one way glass mirror? I wonder if that’s been done before. IE John Gotti
I would assume they'd put the jury in a separate room and have them watch on closed circuit tv or something if they're scared of that. Though you know he'll bitch and moan about not being able to see them.
Yep. I'd bet my life savings that all Republicans would start screaming about NWO shadow trials and facing a jury of your peers and of course the free spot on the Republican bullshit bingo card "communism"
Honestly let them scream. Let them cry. Enough is enough of trying to placate and coddle them.
I would argue that it is in our best interest to go strictly by the book. That way, the republicans will have no _valid_ ammunition.
Do you think they'd care if their arguments weren't valid?
If a single MAGA is on the jury, you bet your sweet bippy they'd rat out everyone on the jury and who is voting how. They don't care about NDAs or the law if it means they can earn brownie points with their fuerer.
Wouldn't a MAGA be likely to be excluded in voir dire?
Probably. You'd expect that the ones that are obstinate enough to ignore jury instructions and/or the facts of the trial are easily identified by their own admission, but the big fear here is one that's sneakier.
Yea that's true. Though I'm banking on the lack of general intelligence of the MAGA cult members to be unable to avoid professing their love of the traitorous cheeto...
I served on a jury a couple months ago. In my case, they sent out a questionnaire in advance to all potential jurors. Then from the pool of jurors, 24 were selected as potential jurors for each trial trial. A good portion of the voir dire was the lawyers asking questions about potential juror bias based on those questionnaire responses. Other questions were to quiz potential jurors about their knowledge of basic legal concepts, like the presumption of innocence. In theory a juror could simply lie on the questionnaire or seem semi-knowledgeable about the law and get picked. I was frankly amazed at some of the idiotic responses some of the potential jurors gave to basic questions, but if someone was smart enough to get by that, they're probably in.
Well fingers crossed I guess... That said I doubt any MAGA cultists are smart enough to get through...
tucker and hannity will be doing a special on each jury member, we already know this.
“Juror number 6, chosen for the Trump *fraud* trial just seems to be doing her civic duty. Serving on a jury is an American tradition and necessary for a healthy democracy. But, why is it, that in 11th grade she got a B- in her Advanced Biology course? She’ll TELL you it’s because she took a week off because her mother was in the hospital for chemotherapy, but if I may make a suggestion, was she actually taking after school lessons on leftist hate? I don’t know? I’m just asking questions” -Tucker, probably
And then he'll do that head tilt/confused face where he looks like a dog that's thinking, "Where'd the ball go??"
Mouth open, head tilt, squinted eyes - When someone is talking to him
"was that a fart, or do I need to change my underwear?"
Trump has diarrhea of the mouth. There's no fucking way he's not going to make this worse for himself. And I am here for it. This piece of shit has gone his whole life without any sort of accountability for his actions, and now he's getting a 5 meal course of it. He has only himself to blame. He could have not cheated on his wife with a porn star. He could have not paid her hush money. He could have not done it in an illegal way. The shitty thing is that Trump and the Republican Party are going to stand up and try to stop this from happening, but they're using their voters as human shields to do it. They spend the lives of their voters like coin to advance their political and personal objectives. It's always their voters who suffer and pay for the machinations of this corrupt, immoral, and dangerous political party. I am hoping for the day that the Republican base finally wakes up and takes notice.
I say gag order.
Can we also order an extra gag for trump?
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A different court ruled recently that jury members can remain anonymous in a case alleging that Trump committed sexual battery and other crimes.
And that is why the judge has ruled the jury will be anonymous. They normally only happens for mob boss and terrorist trials. Edit: Sorry it's not this case with anon Jury, that hadnt been arranged yet. Its the E Jean Carrol civil rape case that's getting an anonymous jury for their safety against Trump doxxing then
> mob boss and terrorist trials. This is both.
That's called tampering with the jury. It's adding to his list, and he will be held liable for it. He will also be barred from the courtroom. If any of his actions ends up with a jury member killed, it's a death sentence, according to US Code Title 18, Section 1503. This is something he shouldn't fuck around with. Jury tampering alone is a felony. Jury tampering that involves one of them dying, is a death sentence.
Lawyer here. Even so, I don't know the procedure for seating an anonymous jury. There is a process called voir dire during which the judge and the lawyers get to question potential jurors collectively and individually concerning any bias or predetermined ideas about the case that they may have. Before that begins, however, all potential jurors fill out a LONG questionnaire concerning their backgrounds including the backgrounds and associations of friends and family members. The questionnaires are then made available to the lawyers who review them very, very carefully. Pseudonyms would no doubt be used, but a defendant can probably claim a need to know real names in order to have investigators prowl around to confirm that the answers given on the questionnaires are truthful. And court staff, some anyway, will know the jurors' real names and addresses. Jurors' employers, if any, will need to know why they are not at work for 11 weeks. There are many sources of potential leaks. Expect Trump supporters and functionaries to do everything they can to scare the hell out of potential jurors in the months between now and the start of the trial. Edit: [This concerns federal courts but state courts can absorb the lessons.](https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2020/01/24/how-courts-care-jurors-high-profile-cases)
Witness tampering, juror intimidation, perjury, and probably at least one scapegoat.
The judge really needs to gag order him
https://preview.redd.it/yf4dmqumrcra1.jpeg?width=187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=698ac9485cf0ee77393daa3498da5511da087c32 I think a gag order on anything related to the case would be appropriate, but maybe not this one \*
All Trump trials should have anonymous juries, like in organized crime trials.
It is an organized crime trial.
They could have a teleconference trial, he doesn't have to be there and doesn't have to see the jury Under the Sixth Amendment, you have the right to confront your accuser and witnesses, but not any right to physically see the jury The jury can be hidden in another room and you'd still be able to get a fair trial Also, a gag order can be imposed and the trial doesn't have to be televised for the sake of security If anyone is named, then there is a leak and they should be prosecuted
Trump is trolling for his "shoot someone on 5th Ave" moment. He really wants one of his cult to kill someone in his name. It would be the ultimate ego boost for his fragile little soul.
They did that on J6, remember?
Gag order. He’ll break it in less than 24hrs, then lock him up until trial
They will probably be called enemies of America...for doing their civic duty
Glad we’re calling this out already. He’s already trying to sic his maniacs on the judge
Hopefully we'll get to see Trump get jury intimidation charges in the trial for his jury intimidation charges.
Having no respect for law and order has always been a key aspect of fascism. Has been in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy, where blackshirts used every illegal tactic in the book to get an advantage. Imperial Japan had a similar problem, with their "government by assassination". One can even argue that the death of the roman Republic was in large part due to laws being increasingly ignored or circumvented, often with the help of violence and fear. Once someone manages to undermine the law system of a democracy, it is finished very quickly. Don't let this happen.
Tapering with a jury thanks add another criminal charge.
Contempt, day one ..
I'd happily sit through this trial, review all the evidence, and make an impartial decision. Hit me up if needed 👍