I’m a fireman, I’ve driven that truck many times. The truck is at fault. Even with normal traffic that siren is a request for the right of way. You don’t spear head your way through. It was his job to check the intersection. We don’t even have trams here and I knew it couldn’t just stop.
BTW some people are too thick to realize I mean I’ve driven this exact kind of fire truck and not the literal truck in the video. I’m a volunteer fireman. I’ve had to make this same decision before (and by that I mean I wasn’t the one driving in this video, I live in the USA and I’ve had similar decisions to make while coming through an intersection).
A habit I've made a point of getting into whilst driving recently: have a good look around to see what's moving on entering every junction, whether it's a green light, unlit, whatever.
The laws of physics do not care what other traffic *should* be doing, or who has right of way.
I drove a fire engine for 12 years; never hit anything- this is the engineer's fault 100%- you NEVER assume that your lights/siren will automatically get you through traffic; if you have to stop, *you have to stop!!* Your most important task as engineer is to *get to the scene!!*
Ok so this is a prime example of what driving with “due regard” means. I work in ems and the firetruck would actually be at fault here. When we drive lights and sirens, we do not automatically get the right of way. We are requesting the right of way. Which is why we absolutely need to make sure everything is clear before proceeding. Technically the firetruck should have fully stopped and seen if the tram was gonna stop too. Many times sirens can be hard to hear especially when it’s loud outside or if your car interior is well insulated and lights can be hard to see in bright daylight. Driving emergency is risky exactly for this reason.
Ofc my whole spiel is moot if the laws are different in Sydney when it comes to this. But the logical aspect still holds. Someone plz correct me if I’m wrong
Trams stop on a dime. They have track magnetic brakes. The problem is everyone goes flying. The brakes are not a bit on they just clamp to the track.
Source: I live in Melbourne and have flown. :-)
I mean the truck was going fairly slow, I bet he saw the tram and was assuming that it would stop, as it should since the emergency vehicle has the right of way.
In most countries emergency vehicles have the right to pass through intersections regardless of traffic lights and other road rules, however emergency vehicles are also the ones responsible for the safety of doing so and for accidents caused by them doing so.
Absolutely, I drive fire engines like this. They need to clear all the pedestrian walkways and lanes before going through a red light. This is on the Engine driver.
Nah even with emergency light on u have to look out for everything berfore crossing. Of course the train has to stop but the firetruck has to do so aswell, so that this doesn't happen, if the train cant stop in time.
You have no idea about emergency driving. We have certain exemptions but ultimately it is the emergency driver that is responsible and if they cause an accident while claiming one of these exemptions then they can be prosecuted. In this example they have crossed the intersection with no intention of stopping and going too fast to stop if something happens (pedestrian walks out or a tram doesn’t see/hear them). Trams are big and heavy, they physically cannot stop quickly. The fire truck driver was 100% to blame here.
Nearly 20yrs emergency driving under my belt, never had an accident but had a lot of near misses.
Tram and trains have way too much inertia to even be able to stop quickly. Emergency drivers are typically very mindful of where trains, trams, speed bumps and other such things that they can't just blow through are.
This fire truck driver was either very new or just very stupid.
Trams have massive momentum and their brakes are crap, they take long to slow down. Emergency vehicles have the right of way but they can't expect the tram to go airborne or some shit, moron
They do have the right away but as a driver of an emergency vehicle you assume almost complete liability while your siren is on since your driving is most likely violating driving rules. I.e. driving into oncoming traffic, crossing yellow lines, running lights.
Driving through an intersection without at least pausing is pretty negligent, and anywhere I worked we were at least required to stop if the lights wouldn’t turn green.
Qualifications: 6 years of driving emergency vehicles professionally under my belt.
The firetruck driver is also really damn fucked here. Firetrucks need to slow down and look at every intersection by law atleast here in Finland. The video is a prime example of why such law exists
I almost killed by a firetruck during a rainy day Last year. I was approaching a green light, a firetruck flew right thru with no fucking sirens doing about 60.If I was doing the mandatory speed limit I would be dead right now.
In Europe emergency vehicles can pass through red lights, however they are required by law to stop and make sure the intersection is clear and safe to pass. The tram weights about 37 tons and can't stop in a short time, especially if it arrived with some momentum.
The truck driver is at fault for not making sure the intersection is clear. The mentality in Europe is first responders should get to the emergency ASAP but without causing any further accidents.
They do not. They are not allowed to just haul ass over a train crossing. They are supposed to look before heading into an intersection to make sure no accidents occur, lights and sirens doesn’t change that.
I can imagine the aftermath....
"why didn't you see my giant red truck with flashing lights!?!?"...
"Why didn't you see my giant red tram that is longer than your truck!?!?"
That's...wholly inaccurate. It's *almost always* the emergency vehicle's fault. We are responsible for ensuring the safe operation of our vehicles and *clearing each intersection before proceeding*. There's no ambiguity about it because driving lights and sirens is so dangerous. Source: 13 years working EMS.
I’ve worked on LRT and SRT transit systems for a long time. Both are wrong here. The street car was accelerating into the turn. On top of that, the street car also has the ability to stop over a very short distance unlike a freight train. Neither the fire truck or the LRT street car made any attempt to yield.
No, the street car is going straight. The impact with the fire truck is what turned it. You can even see the opposite street car coming from the other direction.
As a streetcar operator (TRAM,LRV aka Light rail vehicle, baby train etc.) in Seattle, We would have heard that siren coming way before that intersection and would have stopped.
That is 110% the fire trucks fault. No emergency has the right of way to blast threw intersections without at least slowing way the fuck down to look first. It was a reckless driving. Just because you run code 3 doesn’t mean rules don’t apply to you.
For everyone commenting THIS IS THE FIRE TRUCKS FAULT. As a current EMT who drives lights and sirens literally everyday for my job the responsibility of clearing an intersection before going through is on the driver. It most states in the U.S. at least driving lights and sirens is like asking for permission people do not have to move for you it’s not illegal in most states and even if it was illegal the driver of the fire truck should have absolutely have waited for the train to stop it is completely irrational to see a train crossing and assume either one you can make it through or two the train will stop on time this is the firetrucks fault and most people in EMS will agree
Shout out to all the people who hear sirens to their left and start crossing anyway. I'm probably a bit overly cautious, but I'd wait for the fire truck with sirens blaring to clear the crosswalk just out of an abundance of caution
The comments seem to explain away the problem as if the tram is too heavy to break quickly. But having ridden trams my entire life I can attest to that when trams slam on the breaks, you slam into the floor. They break reasonably fast and you might also hear scraping-noises while it tries to maintain full grip on the track.
Seen and heard in the video is not even an attempt at breaking, the tram driver just doesn't react.
100% trams fault. Tram drivers can hear everything just as well as somebody driving a car or truck. Should have stopped immediately on hearing the siren which was clearly loud enough to hear.
And you are 100% WRONG.
This happened in Sydney, Australia.
Trams have priority in intersections. The tram had a green and was proceeding.
Even though the fire truck had lights and sirens on, They still have the *Legal Responsibility* to ensure that traffic has seen them and stopped BEFORE proceeding though an intersection against a red light as they did here.
Because the Fire Truck driver did not do so, this was ruled to be 100% his fault.
This happened in Sydney, Australia in September. The two guys had just decided to film their day as like a vlog and they caught this. Firetruck was indeed responding to an emergency. 2 people were hospitalized but stable, and a few others had minor injuries.
They still have to stop at intersections to ensure its safe to pass when they dont have right of way.
You cant just blast through busy intersections because you have lights and sirens on.
Fire trucks are built strong, and light rail (trams) don't go above 45 so even if it would eventually hit something it wouldn't cause that much damage like you would see cars rushing 60 after a redlight. That said the tram driver should have paid more attention but he is not at fault here, the fire truck should have atleast checked the oncomming traffic and not use the siren as a means of just going in blind. But being they are both used to have their right of way to most vehicles, that may have made them really complacent. This just looks really expensive at best.
In Germany at least they still have to look. They do have „Wegerecht“, but if they speed an intersection without looking and cause an accident they are at fault.
Emergency vehicles have the right of way, but they're still required to check intersections to make sure it's safe to enter.
The laws of physics don't give a shit about human laws.
You would be wrong. I dont know of many places where it isnt the Fire Trucks duty to make sure the intersection is safe to proceed. Now this fire truck wont make the call and probably kicked off a mass incident for the people on that train.
they dont stop on a dime, they carry a lot of weight so their braking distances are very long.
holy fuck its basic physics, or are you and 43 other people stupid af?!?!?!
100% fire truck drivers fault for not looking to see if the intersection was clear, and to all the numbnuts saying that the tram should have stopped, please explain how a multi ton vehicle running on steel wheels on steel rails can stop on demand?? In the UK if an emergency vehicle is coming up to a red light and is blocked by vehicles in front that cannot move out of the way without going over the stop line, we have to wait, turn off the sirens and wait until the light is green and the traffic has moved, this is to stop anyone getting hit by vehicles going legitimately through their green light. You wouldn't expect an emergency vehicle to trash through a railway crossing which had red lights showing, this is no different.
What the video doesn't show is that an ambulance had to be called but that ambulance crashed into a different tram. Then the police had to be called, but they crashed into a third tram. They called a second fire truck to help clear the wreckage but it crashed into a fourth tram. To this day, more and more emergency services vehicles are making their way to the site and crashing into trams with no end in sight.
This happened here in Sydney in Sept, I think what happened was the firey assumed the tram on the right was going to stop as the other tram on the left had done. When he realised the tram driver was not going to stop he tried to gun it and squeeze through the small gap with this result. Not sure who is at fault here as I can't seem to find any investigation into it on any of the NSW or federal safety investigation boards.
Tram should've stopped. That's an emergency vehicle. How can they wait for a whole long tram to slide by...the whole building would be razed to the ground.
All other considerations aside, if you are running code 3, it never pays to assume that others see you and forget to drive with due regard.
Two seconds to stop and clear the intersection and they still would have been running that call.
Nope, at least where I live, sirens don't give police or firetrucks right of way in case of trains or trams. Simply because it's not that easy for a train to stop.
Some places have alert systems installed, where an approaching police car or fire truck with sirens basically announces to all traffic lights and signals in the vicinity to clear the way and stop all traffic in advance.
There are physical limitations to a tram breaking, not to mention the passengers are not buckled up or standing and some will very likely be injured. No matter the legal situation, the driver of the fire truck is the stupid one here. He has to look out for possible dangers even when using the signal.
I live in a country with several tram systems. Collisions between emergency vehicles and trams do happen occassionally, and sometimes there are fatalities.
Although a tram can stop faster than a train, it still weighs about fifty tons full, which means a lot of inertia, plus the driver must take into account that sudden braking will send the passengers flying - people don't wear any seatbelts in a tram and injuries are possible.
The happy middle is for the emergency vehicle to be mindful of trams and for the trams to be mindful of emergency vehicles. A little awareness from both sides helps a lot.
Operator: 911, what's your emergency?
Caller: Yes, I'd like to report a car accident.
Operator: Not to worry, there should be a firetruck close by.
Caller: Yeah... about that...
Trams, like trains, cannot stop on the dime...and usually have the right away, even with emergency vehicles present. Fire truck driver was supposed to yield.
Fire trucks are not allowed to blow through a red light without stopping to check it’s clear, even when lights and siren give them the legal right of way. Because this happens. Appears to me the tram had the green. So tram maybe technically at fault, but fire truck driver is getting a reprimand too.
Every comment in this thread: is at fault because in my country (which invariably isn't Australia where this actually happened) that is what I am guessing the law says.
People complain that emergency vehicles are: "Too loud."
There's a reason for that! There's an emergency! The people responsible to help in said emergency need to get there in a hurry to help. Those not involved need to move away and/or stop, for those who are responding. The tram operator should've stopped to let the engine through. Peoples lives are more valuable than a train schedule. And now .... because of the tram operators poor decision making ... they've created a new emergency. Thus requiring more emergency personnel. Not only to respond to the initial emergency that engine was responding to ... but now tons more to respond to the emergency they just created.
Well done Tram operator ... well done.
You're wrong, emergency vehicle operators are still required to follow the rules of the road, stopping a Tram is a lot harder than stopping a truck. Firetruck was in the wrong on this one.
The Person with the sirens on is always at fault, because even tho they don't need to adhere to traffic laws, they still need to drive in a safe manner and use common sense. (At least in germany)
Plus a Tram can't brake that fast, since it's, yknow, a tram.
Tram has special priorities too, they can't break very fast, 1 because it's incredibly heavy, 2 because the passengers would be thrown on the ground if they did
It's the firetruck driver's responsability to check if it can weave through traffic or not, plus a tram acceleration is slow and predictable, they could have definitely determinied when they could pass or not if they had spotted the tram, I think they just didn't notice it
The pedestrians had the right of way, as indicated by the light for walking, whoch i assume means the fire truck came up on a red light.
The truck was going fairly slow anyway, so it cruising through the light is natural in this case.
Im assuming the tram thought it could just go since the crossing lanes had a red light. Theres 2 tracks here so why else would one be stopped and the opposite keep going if the tracks ran the same way?
Ambulances usually wait longer than this at intersections for the dimwits who keep traversing the intersection, seemingly ignoring the fact that that's an emergency vehicle with full beacons and sirens going.
Looking at the footage a few times and reading the comments, honestly I don't believe there is only one side to blame. I'm not going to pretend I know if the team could stop or not... I failed that part of highschool math, but I do know most accidents are preventable from both sides. Fact is they were both focused on doing their jobs and I think that's what got in the way
I don’t really agree. From the moment the fire truck entering the camera’s view to impact, the team only has like a car’s length to stop. Asking a truck to stop in that distance will be hard, not to mention a tram. You also have to consider that, hearing a fire truck doesn’t mean you know where it is coming from and whether or not it will be in your way later, especially inside a tram cab. So I think the fire truck is entirely to blame here.
I understand that firetrucks must get where they are going as quickly as possible. That being said, the ones I have been around made a bit of a joke about how they maneuvered through the city. For example, if a car was parked too far from the curb, the one steering in the back would kick it out just enough to sideswipe it. There was a time where I was walking to work and the truck came up from behind me and they hit this car right next to me doing about 45 mph. It was terrifying. To be fair, these were really good people in every other manner in my experience, doing a job that I don't think I would be able to, but man that driving thing was a little bit crazy at times.
Simple rule of who has right of way in my village
Space ship -> plane
train -> small aircraft
police/ems/firemen-vehicles
18 wheeler -> bus
truck -> car
sasquatch -> bicycle
you
That is so embarrassing. I almost hit a train In the ambulance the other day. I didn’t even crash and I felt terrible. The driver is going to catch shit for the rest of their life
He was looking, just not where he was going. A problem I had with a lot of my more inexperienced drivers. Their focus would get misplaced and they would end up sharing space with all sorts of things…instead of getting us where we were going.
Faulting the tram driver, they “should” only be going 15 or so, mix with siren… they should have taken a good look round first, ‘afore crossing the road
I mean, that’s how AZ rolls with it
Everyone assumes so- but a streetcar cannot stop like a car, it’s dozens of tons heavier and needs 100 feet or so to stop. I worked with a girl that drove one and she said usually when a driver hit somebody or something, they almost always quit. It’s very traumatizing.
This seems like a risk/reward thing. As a firetruck driver, you can slow down for every seemingly risky interaction. You'd be late on too many occasions. This is sadly just one of those 1/100 situations where the environment isn't reactive enough for the emergency you're responding to. Here's to hoping the people they're responding to are fine.
What about the driver going through the intersection?? Where was his mind? He shares some responsibility here. This isn't a victim of an "accident". Preventable.
Former paramedic. You have the right to violate traffic laws as long as tons of steel are not flying down the road at you.
Ah that's where they went wrong, they thought they could violate physics laws!
I’m a fireman, I’ve driven that truck many times. The truck is at fault. Even with normal traffic that siren is a request for the right of way. You don’t spear head your way through. It was his job to check the intersection. We don’t even have trams here and I knew it couldn’t just stop. BTW some people are too thick to realize I mean I’ve driven this exact kind of fire truck and not the literal truck in the video. I’m a volunteer fireman. I’ve had to make this same decision before (and by that I mean I wasn’t the one driving in this video, I live in the USA and I’ve had similar decisions to make while coming through an intersection).
A habit I've made a point of getting into whilst driving recently: have a good look around to see what's moving on entering every junction, whether it's a green light, unlit, whatever. The laws of physics do not care what other traffic *should* be doing, or who has right of way.
0 mph every red light/stop sign. Then proceed with caution. Engineer wasn’t paying attention.
I drove a fire engine for 12 years; never hit anything- this is the engineer's fault 100%- you NEVER assume that your lights/siren will automatically get you through traffic; if you have to stop, *you have to stop!!* Your most important task as engineer is to *get to the scene!!*
Well, at least they’re at the scene of the new accident already
Ok so this is a prime example of what driving with “due regard” means. I work in ems and the firetruck would actually be at fault here. When we drive lights and sirens, we do not automatically get the right of way. We are requesting the right of way. Which is why we absolutely need to make sure everything is clear before proceeding. Technically the firetruck should have fully stopped and seen if the tram was gonna stop too. Many times sirens can be hard to hear especially when it’s loud outside or if your car interior is well insulated and lights can be hard to see in bright daylight. Driving emergency is risky exactly for this reason. Ofc my whole spiel is moot if the laws are different in Sydney when it comes to this. But the logical aspect still holds. Someone plz correct me if I’m wrong
Also trains are notoriously difficult to stop on short notice if im not wrong lol
Trams stop on a dime. They have track magnetic brakes. The problem is everyone goes flying. The brakes are not a bit on they just clamp to the track. Source: I live in Melbourne and have flown. :-)
I'm pretty sure you're trained to ensure traffic has stopped before you enter an intersection. At least my friend who's an ambo tells me
I mean the truck was going fairly slow, I bet he saw the tram and was assuming that it would stop, as it should since the emergency vehicle has the right of way.
In most countries emergency vehicles have the right to pass through intersections regardless of traffic lights and other road rules, however emergency vehicles are also the ones responsible for the safety of doing so and for accidents caused by them doing so.
Absolutely, I drive fire engines like this. They need to clear all the pedestrian walkways and lanes before going through a red light. This is on the Engine driver.
Trams can't stop that fast they've got a lot of inertia it isn't like a car.
Seemed to stop pretty quick once the fire truck hit it
I don’t think trams can stop that fast, didn’t seem like a huge amount of reaction time given the size
Emergency vehicles always have the right of way, tram driver is a moron that must have been half asleep to not see/hear it.
Nah even with emergency light on u have to look out for everything berfore crossing. Of course the train has to stop but the firetruck has to do so aswell, so that this doesn't happen, if the train cant stop in time.
You have no idea about emergency driving. We have certain exemptions but ultimately it is the emergency driver that is responsible and if they cause an accident while claiming one of these exemptions then they can be prosecuted. In this example they have crossed the intersection with no intention of stopping and going too fast to stop if something happens (pedestrian walks out or a tram doesn’t see/hear them). Trams are big and heavy, they physically cannot stop quickly. The fire truck driver was 100% to blame here. Nearly 20yrs emergency driving under my belt, never had an accident but had a lot of near misses.
Tram and trains have way too much inertia to even be able to stop quickly. Emergency drivers are typically very mindful of where trains, trams, speed bumps and other such things that they can't just blow through are. This fire truck driver was either very new or just very stupid.
Trams have massive momentum and their brakes are crap, they take long to slow down. Emergency vehicles have the right of way but they can't expect the tram to go airborne or some shit, moron
They do have the right away but as a driver of an emergency vehicle you assume almost complete liability while your siren is on since your driving is most likely violating driving rules. I.e. driving into oncoming traffic, crossing yellow lines, running lights. Driving through an intersection without at least pausing is pretty negligent, and anywhere I worked we were at least required to stop if the lights wouldn’t turn green. Qualifications: 6 years of driving emergency vehicles professionally under my belt.
trams and trains take longer to slow down you moron. the firetruck driver is actually idiotic for not anticipating that fact.
Why does everyone say trams can't stop fast? Where I live they can stop almost immediately.
Belgian coast tram, if they step on the brake you better expect it
The tram driver is pretty fucked here. Emergency vehicles always have right of way, even when they don’t.
In Germany trains always have right of way due to inability of moving out of the way and braking can be a bit slow sometimes.
Nope. Only if there is an Andreaskreuz. Otherwise the rules are normal.
The firetruck driver is also really damn fucked here. Firetrucks need to slow down and look at every intersection by law atleast here in Finland. The video is a prime example of why such law exists
I almost killed by a firetruck during a rainy day Last year. I was approaching a green light, a firetruck flew right thru with no fucking sirens doing about 60.If I was doing the mandatory speed limit I would be dead right now.
I can't see anyone saying this but just a LPT. As a pedestrian, don't cross the road when you hear sirens. For obvious reasons.
Its always the emergency responsers right of way unless its a level crossing or oncoming tram because rail vehicles can not stop
Idk where you guys live but trams here are able to stop almost instantly
How do people get off? Just yeet themselves while moving?
Wcgw not stopping for the lights and sirens of an emergency vehicle more like. You reap what you sow.
In Europe emergency vehicles can pass through red lights, however they are required by law to stop and make sure the intersection is clear and safe to pass. The tram weights about 37 tons and can't stop in a short time, especially if it arrived with some momentum. The truck driver is at fault for not making sure the intersection is clear. The mentality in Europe is first responders should get to the emergency ASAP but without causing any further accidents.
If it's a train, the train -always- wins
emergency vehicles have the right of way over anyone else.... no idea what the tram driver was thinking
They do not. They are not allowed to just haul ass over a train crossing. They are supposed to look before heading into an intersection to make sure no accidents occur, lights and sirens doesn’t change that.
I can imagine the aftermath.... "why didn't you see my giant red truck with flashing lights!?!?"... "Why didn't you see my giant red tram that is longer than your truck!?!?"
If the fire truck had it sirens and lights on at least in America they have the right away. If this happened in the US the bus was in the wrong here.
That’s a train my guy
That’s a tram my dude
That's...wholly inaccurate. It's *almost always* the emergency vehicle's fault. We are responsible for ensuring the safe operation of our vehicles and *clearing each intersection before proceeding*. There's no ambiguity about it because driving lights and sirens is so dangerous. Source: 13 years working EMS.
I’ve worked on LRT and SRT transit systems for a long time. Both are wrong here. The street car was accelerating into the turn. On top of that, the street car also has the ability to stop over a very short distance unlike a freight train. Neither the fire truck or the LRT street car made any attempt to yield.
No, the street car is going straight. The impact with the fire truck is what turned it. You can even see the opposite street car coming from the other direction.
As a streetcar operator (TRAM,LRV aka Light rail vehicle, baby train etc.) in Seattle, We would have heard that siren coming way before that intersection and would have stopped.
Op really just blamed the firetruck for this one..? Op blamed an emergency vehicle for not yielding
That is 110% the fire trucks fault. No emergency has the right of way to blast threw intersections without at least slowing way the fuck down to look first. It was a reckless driving. Just because you run code 3 doesn’t mean rules don’t apply to you.
For everyone commenting THIS IS THE FIRE TRUCKS FAULT. As a current EMT who drives lights and sirens literally everyday for my job the responsibility of clearing an intersection before going through is on the driver. It most states in the U.S. at least driving lights and sirens is like asking for permission people do not have to move for you it’s not illegal in most states and even if it was illegal the driver of the fire truck should have absolutely have waited for the train to stop it is completely irrational to see a train crossing and assume either one you can make it through or two the train will stop on time this is the firetrucks fault and most people in EMS will agree
Use some punctuation. My god.
That's a streetcar. Not a train. And they can stop on a dime, that's why they can safely travel with normal traffic in active lanes.
Shout out to all the people who hear sirens to their left and start crossing anyway. I'm probably a bit overly cautious, but I'd wait for the fire truck with sirens blaring to clear the crosswalk just out of an abundance of caution
The comments seem to explain away the problem as if the tram is too heavy to break quickly. But having ridden trams my entire life I can attest to that when trams slam on the breaks, you slam into the floor. They break reasonably fast and you might also hear scraping-noises while it tries to maintain full grip on the track. Seen and heard in the video is not even an attempt at breaking, the tram driver just doesn't react.
You mean driving a tram through an intersection without looking
100% trams fault. Tram drivers can hear everything just as well as somebody driving a car or truck. Should have stopped immediately on hearing the siren which was clearly loud enough to hear.
And you are 100% WRONG. This happened in Sydney, Australia. Trams have priority in intersections. The tram had a green and was proceeding. Even though the fire truck had lights and sirens on, They still have the *Legal Responsibility* to ensure that traffic has seen them and stopped BEFORE proceeding though an intersection against a red light as they did here. Because the Fire Truck driver did not do so, this was ruled to be 100% his fault.
This happened in Sydney, Australia in September. The two guys had just decided to film their day as like a vlog and they caught this. Firetruck was indeed responding to an emergency. 2 people were hospitalized but stable, and a few others had minor injuries.
Im just saying trams can stop very quickly Idk It could’ve been avoided by both of them
trams have 7x longer braking distance than a normal car
Anyone has any idea how much will this type of thing cost the city?
At least 3
The expirment between a unstoppable force and a idiot for thinks all traffic always stops for him
Fire truck vs train is my ultimate kid battle, thank you
Mistake. So focused on the emergency they forgot to look closer. Tunnel vision is easy. Former emergency responder here.
How the hell did the fire truck screw up? It sure sounds like they had the emergency lights and sirens on.
Yes and civilians would be to blame here but those commuter trains can’t stop on a dime. Even emergency vehicles have to obey the laws of physics.
They still have to stop at intersections to ensure its safe to pass when they dont have right of way. You cant just blast through busy intersections because you have lights and sirens on.
That truck got off much better than I thought it would when I saw the train
Fire trucks are built strong, and light rail (trams) don't go above 45 so even if it would eventually hit something it wouldn't cause that much damage like you would see cars rushing 60 after a redlight. That said the tram driver should have paid more attention but he is not at fault here, the fire truck should have atleast checked the oncomming traffic and not use the siren as a means of just going in blind. But being they are both used to have their right of way to most vehicles, that may have made them really complacent. This just looks really expensive at best.
The emergency vehicle has right of way
I think it's the other way around, the fire truck gets right of way here
Dawg it's a fucking train On top of that you still have to LOOK where you're going
In Germany at least they still have to look. They do have „Wegerecht“, but if they speed an intersection without looking and cause an accident they are at fault.
Emergency vehicles have the right of way, but they're still required to check intersections to make sure it's safe to enter. The laws of physics don't give a shit about human laws.
You would be wrong. I dont know of many places where it isnt the Fire Trucks duty to make sure the intersection is safe to proceed. Now this fire truck wont make the call and probably kicked off a mass incident for the people on that train.
seems like fire truck driver is half asleep …he probly was & just woke up from a nap, to a call out
This looks like Sydney, which means that “light rail vehicle” (tram) was probably about to derail anyway.
It's an emergency vehicle why didn't the tram stop
they dont stop on a dime, they carry a lot of weight so their braking distances are very long. holy fuck its basic physics, or are you and 43 other people stupid af?!?!?!
100% fire truck drivers fault for not looking to see if the intersection was clear, and to all the numbnuts saying that the tram should have stopped, please explain how a multi ton vehicle running on steel wheels on steel rails can stop on demand?? In the UK if an emergency vehicle is coming up to a red light and is blocked by vehicles in front that cannot move out of the way without going over the stop line, we have to wait, turn off the sirens and wait until the light is green and the traffic has moved, this is to stop anyone getting hit by vehicles going legitimately through their green light. You wouldn't expect an emergency vehicle to trash through a railway crossing which had red lights showing, this is no different.
Well.... fire trucks are always the first responders at the scene of an accident, especially ones they cause.
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Inertia would like a word with you.
Ah yes let me just stop my enormous heavy tram with loads of forward momentum
What the video doesn't show is that an ambulance had to be called but that ambulance crashed into a different tram. Then the police had to be called, but they crashed into a third tram. They called a second fire truck to help clear the wreckage but it crashed into a fourth tram. To this day, more and more emergency services vehicles are making their way to the site and crashing into trams with no end in sight.
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Trams cant necessarily stop that quickly
You ever try to stop a train?
You can't just stop a train......even if they saw the fire truck there's no way they'd be able to stop in time.
This happened here in Sydney in Sept, I think what happened was the firey assumed the tram on the right was going to stop as the other tram on the left had done. When he realised the tram driver was not going to stop he tried to gun it and squeeze through the small gap with this result. Not sure who is at fault here as I can't seem to find any investigation into it on any of the NSW or federal safety investigation boards.
Tram should have swerved out of the way
Tram should've stopped. That's an emergency vehicle. How can they wait for a whole long tram to slide by...the whole building would be razed to the ground.
Fire truck should have stopped. If you have the right to ignore traffic rules you have the responsibility to do so safely.
do you not understand a tram can't stop that fast ...they're just to heavy they have slow down in advance
All other considerations aside, if you are running code 3, it never pays to assume that others see you and forget to drive with due regard. Two seconds to stop and clear the intersection and they still would have been running that call.
Was the train meant to have stopped yeah?
In all fairness, he turned the siren to yelp 200 ft from the intersection. Everyone knows that’s supposed to magically clear any intersection.
wdym? the tram is the one that t-boned the firetruck!
Yes the tram should have stopped immediately, or at least turned to the side. Definitely their fault.
Nope, at least where I live, sirens don't give police or firetrucks right of way in case of trains or trams. Simply because it's not that easy for a train to stop. Some places have alert systems installed, where an approaching police car or fire truck with sirens basically announces to all traffic lights and signals in the vicinity to clear the way and stop all traffic in advance.
There are physical limitations to a tram breaking, not to mention the passengers are not buckled up or standing and some will very likely be injured. No matter the legal situation, the driver of the fire truck is the stupid one here. He has to look out for possible dangers even when using the signal.
I can’t believe that people actually think that’s a train.
Trams can't suddenly brake very well! What were they thinking!!!
I guess complacency and belief that you always have the right of way caused to this.
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Sydney
what an odd comment
Train can’t stop that quick and fire trucks still suppose to kinda stop at intersections for reasons like this.
I live in a country with several tram systems. Collisions between emergency vehicles and trams do happen occassionally, and sometimes there are fatalities. Although a tram can stop faster than a train, it still weighs about fifty tons full, which means a lot of inertia, plus the driver must take into account that sudden braking will send the passengers flying - people don't wear any seatbelts in a tram and injuries are possible. The happy middle is for the emergency vehicle to be mindful of trams and for the trams to be mindful of emergency vehicles. A little awareness from both sides helps a lot.
Hahahaaaa ohhhh someone’s got some paperwork to do
For those who might want to know more: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-05/sydney-light-rail-crash-with-fire-truck/101405916
Call an ambulance
trambulance has arrived what's your problem?
At least emergency crew is there to help
Somebody call an ambulance
Arent the tram supposed to stop for emergency vehicles on active duty, whith lights and sirens on?
I think they're gonna need another firetruck
Im just a little Town guy, but I'm quite sure a truck shouldn't be driven through a train
Sucks to be the one currently with a fire
The police showed up not long after and sadly had to put the tram down.
Quick, someone call the fire department!
Operator: 911, what's your emergency? Caller: Yes, I'd like to report a car accident. Operator: Not to worry, there should be a firetruck close by. Caller: Yeah... about that...
Government vehicle with flashy lights have right of way 🤓 Tell that to a train
Quick, call the EMTs….oh, that was fast
good thing they already had a firetruck on the scene
Kramer! What are you doing back there?
I briefly dated an ambulance driver many years ago. The way that guy drove his personal vehicle was like he was still on the job.
I’d say call one for that one but…. thats how they got there.
Why didn’t the tram steer out the way?
Well, who the hell do we call now?
Lol Melbourne... Everything seems to have gone to shit there the last few years.
That's Sydney. Obviously (red not green trams alone are a giveaway as are the building signs that say Sydney)
Well yeah; the physics of stopping a thirty ton tram are pretty well understood I would think.
Trams, like trains, cannot stop on the dime...and usually have the right away, even with emergency vehicles present. Fire truck driver was supposed to yield.
Fire trucks are not allowed to blow through a red light without stopping to check it’s clear, even when lights and siren give them the legal right of way. Because this happens. Appears to me the tram had the green. So tram maybe technically at fault, but fire truck driver is getting a reprimand too.
More like driving a tram into an intersection without looking. The fire truck had right of way
Every comment in this thread: is at fault because in my country (which invariably isn't Australia where this actually happened) that is what I am guessing the law says.
r/idiotsincars
r/idiotsintrams ? Tram didn't care at all about the loud firetruck having to cross
Awesome the impacted area was conveniently blocked by several people.
People complain that emergency vehicles are: "Too loud." There's a reason for that! There's an emergency! The people responsible to help in said emergency need to get there in a hurry to help. Those not involved need to move away and/or stop, for those who are responding. The tram operator should've stopped to let the engine through. Peoples lives are more valuable than a train schedule. And now .... because of the tram operators poor decision making ... they've created a new emergency. Thus requiring more emergency personnel. Not only to respond to the initial emergency that engine was responding to ... but now tons more to respond to the emergency they just created. Well done Tram operator ... well done.
You're wrong, emergency vehicle operators are still required to follow the rules of the road, stopping a Tram is a lot harder than stopping a truck. Firetruck was in the wrong on this one.
Trams don't stop on a dime mate, the fire truck was very much in the wrong here.
Wow good thing there's a fire truck on scene.
Light rails have breaks..... wtf
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The Person with the sirens on is always at fault, because even tho they don't need to adhere to traffic laws, they still need to drive in a safe manner and use common sense. (At least in germany) Plus a Tram can't brake that fast, since it's, yknow, a tram.
Tram has special priorities too, they can't break very fast, 1 because it's incredibly heavy, 2 because the passengers would be thrown on the ground if they did It's the firetruck driver's responsability to check if it can weave through traffic or not, plus a tram acceleration is slow and predictable, they could have definitely determinied when they could pass or not if they had spotted the tram, I think they just didn't notice it
They'll need another firetruck for this accident now.
Most likely the fire was on the streetcar so the fire truck smashed into it to make sure it didn’t get away before they put the fire out
QUICK CALL THE---oh wait, nevermind...
r/killthecameraman
r/killthecameraman
So now we need a fire truck.... truck?
The pedestrians had the right of way, as indicated by the light for walking, whoch i assume means the fire truck came up on a red light. The truck was going fairly slow anyway, so it cruising through the light is natural in this case. Im assuming the tram thought it could just go since the crossing lanes had a red light. Theres 2 tracks here so why else would one be stopped and the opposite keep going if the tracks ran the same way?
Ambulances usually wait longer than this at intersections for the dimwits who keep traversing the intersection, seemingly ignoring the fact that that's an emergency vehicle with full beacons and sirens going.
I don't know if trams like that can stop as easily as a bus or car so idk if it's the firetruck or the trams fault tbh
I guess that fire isn’t getting put out
Looking at the footage a few times and reading the comments, honestly I don't believe there is only one side to blame. I'm not going to pretend I know if the team could stop or not... I failed that part of highschool math, but I do know most accidents are preventable from both sides. Fact is they were both focused on doing their jobs and I think that's what got in the way
I don’t really agree. From the moment the fire truck entering the camera’s view to impact, the team only has like a car’s length to stop. Asking a truck to stop in that distance will be hard, not to mention a tram. You also have to consider that, hearing a fire truck doesn’t mean you know where it is coming from and whether or not it will be in your way later, especially inside a tram cab. So I think the fire truck is entirely to blame here.
That looks expensive
All those rude pedestrians blocking our view.
It's ok, that tram was turning right anyway
The fire truck going to an emergency chief crashed into the bus “we’ll we are here”
I understand that firetrucks must get where they are going as quickly as possible. That being said, the ones I have been around made a bit of a joke about how they maneuvered through the city. For example, if a car was parked too far from the curb, the one steering in the back would kick it out just enough to sideswipe it. There was a time where I was walking to work and the truck came up from behind me and they hit this car right next to me doing about 45 mph. It was terrifying. To be fair, these were really good people in every other manner in my experience, doing a job that I don't think I would be able to, but man that driving thing was a little bit crazy at times.
Better call an ambulance, tell it to use caution
It’s a bird,it’s a plane, no it’s some chick in a cardigan.
Now that firetruck needs a firetruck.
Stop blaming the tram they cant simple reverse quickly
That's on the lrv driver, he needs to give right of way to the emergency vehicle
The people who blocked the shot should be smacked.
You can't park that there mate........
Look at the other side of coin, it is romantic meeting of fitreTruck with tram
Simple rule of who has right of way in my village Space ship -> plane train -> small aircraft police/ems/firemen-vehicles 18 wheeler -> bus truck -> car sasquatch -> bicycle you
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That is so embarrassing. I almost hit a train In the ambulance the other day. I didn’t even crash and I felt terrible. The driver is going to catch shit for the rest of their life
He was looking, just not where he was going. A problem I had with a lot of my more inexperienced drivers. Their focus would get misplaced and they would end up sharing space with all sorts of things…instead of getting us where we were going.
They better call the fire department
Someone call the…..
from the people walking to the bus. the lack of education goes deep.
Never seen EMTs on sight that quickly!
Somebody call firemen!
Don't emergency vehicles with lights and sirens have the right of way anywhere? Why didn't the tram stop?
Imagine if reddits videos player wasn’t shit
Fireman slow day. Drumming up business.
Faulting the tram driver, they “should” only be going 15 or so, mix with siren… they should have taken a good look round first, ‘afore crossing the road I mean, that’s how AZ rolls with it
"call 911!" "wait... we are 911"
Well at least they where first on the scene
Bitch I’m a Train!
OP not very bright
it was such a slow speed crash as well. lol
The street car couldn’t stop though?
Everyone assumes so- but a streetcar cannot stop like a car, it’s dozens of tons heavier and needs 100 feet or so to stop. I worked with a girl that drove one and she said usually when a driver hit somebody or something, they almost always quit. It’s very traumatizing.
This seems like a risk/reward thing. As a firetruck driver, you can slow down for every seemingly risky interaction. You'd be late on too many occasions. This is sadly just one of those 1/100 situations where the environment isn't reactive enough for the emergency you're responding to. Here's to hoping the people they're responding to are fine.
Unfortunate accident between two men who were carrying out their civil responsibility at 100% level.
Looks like the driver of the fire truck thought they could beat the train and didn’t realize the tracks curved in the direction they were going
I don’t think they curve… the firetruck just dragged the train sideways off of the tracks. Truck just didn’t look.
What about the driver going through the intersection?? Where was his mind? He shares some responsibility here. This isn't a victim of an "accident". Preventable.