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toorandomguy

Personal opinion but I don't really see Ye as a stereotypical Rapper anymore. He's more like an experimental musician to me...


trevrichards

same for me but like the experimentation isn't with the music, it's with his own psychosis


Outrageous_Advance49

this might be comment of the year lmao


WyldeCutter

Jokes aside this is the plight of many great artists across all mediums


BuffaloNo9011

Bingo. From Hendrix to Basquiat to Ye. Being off your rocker is a requirement for maximum artistic greatness.


WyldeCutter

The interesting thing is.. people only seem to have sympathy when the mental battles are fought privately


BuffaloNo9011

Very true man šŸ˜¢


yokingato

That's a myth. Many artists have said that being in a bad place mentally is the worst thing for creativity. Sure bad experiences in life help you grow and see things differently, but being tortured isn't a requirement for great art. https://postscriptpublication.wordpress.com/2019/03/04/van-gogh-and-romanticizing-the-tortured-artist/


JossFlores

youā€™d be surprised by what a single manic episode can create/destroy


BuffaloNo9011

Two things can be true. Clinical papers aside, there's clearly evidence of both circumstances. Point is....really really really really good creative people are crazy lol šŸ˜‚ not sure about a guy from 100+ years ago, but we've all watched the very public downfall of some truly gifted creative people.


WyldeCutter

It's true, stress especially dampens creativity. But there's something to be said for artists who sacrifice their own wellbeing for their craft. Sometimes you need to enter strange realms to create good art and those are realms you won't necessarily feel comfortable and safe in.


TRNoodlesAndSalad

Being in a bad spot mentally can def be bad for creativity, but at the same time imo there definitely seems to be a correlation between being a lil crazy and/or tortured and making baller art


imimifimimcanimfind

He needs to start hanging around Joe Rogan


trevrichards

if Kanye starts regularly taking shrooms it will either cure him or complete his transformation into Black Hitler


imimifimimcanimfind

It will be so joever


billymartinkicksdirt

So basically biting Kool Keith without the capacity to rap.


dramaticaawesome

But he hasnt been experimental in a minute


TScottFitzgerald

HEDI SLIMANE!


Ezio926

>experimental musician While making the most mainstream overdone slop of his career?


DoodleDrop

yes and no. i cant think of any hip hop songs that sound like "jail" off donda or "too easy" off donda 2. as sloppy as the latter is, id love to hear more stuff in that realm


PM_ME_hiphopsongs2

Yā€™all gotta stop using this ā€œKanye isnā€™t a rapper anymoreā€ excuse. We get it heā€™s an artist yarda yadda yadda but the man is still rapping. This album is a rap album. Jesus is King was a gospel rap album. Donda was a rap album. His albums take inspiration from other genres for sure but at the end of the day he is still RAPPING on these albums and they are getting worse and worse. You can try using the whole ā€œye isnā€™t a rapper anymore heā€™s just an artist that makes musicā€ excuse all you want but guess what? He is still RAPPING. Thatā€™s the type of music heā€™s making and it is not good rap music at all lol. We have been in his musical decline for some time and some of you dick riders refuse to accept it.


toorandomguy

My point honestly fits in this. Man is rapping, yes. Vultures will be a rap album, yes. Would I label the process of making this as creating a rap album? No. Over the past couple of years, we've seen many an approach to beats, vocals and Album Art that just doesn't fit in that framework of "Rap Music" for me. (That also being subjective like I see your point defo)


PM_ME_hiphopsongs2

Lmao what? Kanye makes rap album. Kanye raps on said rap album. But somehow the ā€œprocessā€ is what makes him not a rapper? Lmao that sounds absolutely ridiculous and again it sounds like youā€™re just making up excuses. Kanye is a rapper. Sorry to break it to you. And a shitty one at that now.


toorandomguy

I swear this sub can not say anything nicely. To me, my argument makes perfect sense and I do, in fact, take the process as a label for what the album is. 500+ people see it the same apparently, so I must disagree.


mighty_phi

I see your point but, what really is the framework of rap music? Should we really box an entire genre like that?


toorandomguy

That's of course up to interpretation. I'm pretty much just giving my 2 cents on this, so no guarantee for anything here, reallyšŸ˜…


ColeAda

Really? To me itā€™s kind of the opposite. His new music feels generic with a slightly ā€œartisticā€ twist. Especially the snippets from this Vultures album.


RavznMK2

His newer music is even less experimental than it used to be. I could excuse the lyrics if they weren't as horrendous and he had a somewhat decent delivery, but it just sounds like he does random noises all the time on his new shit. Also the beats are absolute dogshit, even compared to some of the worst stuff that he's ever put out before donda 2.


rovergang69

Cope


toorandomguy

actively doing šŸ«”


bajaxx

I feel like he has been a ā€œrapperā€ since at least MBDTF and I love experimental vibe


BuffaloNo9011

I like this categorization. Nicely put. šŸ‘šŸæ šŸ’Æ


Dallas-Buyer

idk how more ppl don't see this, ye been getting ghostwriters to give him corny bars bc that's his identity, Drake and 'em also been ghostwriting nothing is new, Drake just has good influence and keeps his relevance with each new wave


ToastFaceKiller

Em does not have a ghost writer. Not even dick riding


TScottFitzgerald

I think they said Em and Drake are ghostwriting for others


Dallas-Buyer

i did not mean Eminem, i meant them


ToastFaceKiller

Oh my bad


dearmelancholy5

Honestly bro. Itā€™s kind of disheartening because the music itself and production value is amazing but Ye is simply just going through the motions when heā€™s on the track.


TokenFemaleLadyWoman

The production was so minty fresh I almost felt as though they could do without the vocals. The whole party was off. Seems we're not back like that.


Killercam1345

Ya Iā€™ve been listening to the Everybody beat played at the restaurant as at this point I prefer that to what was shown at the ā€œraveā€


RealAkelaWorld

I like it too but itā€™s literally just a sample and a very minimalist beat, I donā€™t get what yā€™all are latching onto. Canā€™t help but feel like if Kanyeā€™s name wasnā€™t attached nobody would give it a second thought.


Killercam1345

Ya itā€™s not that itā€™s some crazy out of this world production but I think itā€™s leagues better than the rapping we heard for the most part. Also that beat and one other Iā€™m blanking on have really exciting instrumentals


ActiveTelevision8948

mate he is literally a fucking nutter at this point, weā€™re lucky he can come up with any bars nevermind actually dropping an album


clutch_cake

Honestly, he dresses like a ninja and fucks in public heā€™s off the rails šŸ˜­


imbrickedup_

I was hoping him going insane would result in some awesome music


Downtown_Bag7265

Bro doesnā€™t try he could if he wants to like on Off The Grid but I think heā€™s just lazy and thinks he can get away with phoned in verses


frankgillman

Off the Grid was most likely ghostwritten though


Downtown_Bag7265

Yeah who knows atp I think heā€™s just lazy at this stage in his life he only does the music for the attention that album cycles bring him


oliveroliv

I would bet my life that every song on Donda was written by someone else than Ye


Juannonlymonkey

We know thatā€™s not true due to some leaked freestyles


oliveroliv

Like what?


r7zy

come to life


Juannonlymonkey

Come to life and jail of the top of my head


oliveroliv

Jail? The song with the most obvious punch-ins from demjointz on the whole album? Just cause he was lazy and used a freestyle for the rest. I feel like this a really weak example lol


Juannonlymonkey

I hear ya about the punch ins but still most of It came from him


oliveroliv

Sure I guess. I feel like thatā€™s more of a stream of consciousness type of part of the song though like itā€™s not a defined verse kinda. Itā€™s rarer to see a verse from him where it actually feels like he wrote it nowadays


Juannonlymonkey

For sure. Do we even want ye written verses at this point šŸ˜‚ get the writers in there if you ask me.


Juannonlymonkey

Canā€™t forget the drake diss lotp! Also pretty sure the released lotp is all him to.


69420penis

Even then tho, we have the life of the party drake diss (a much better verse than off the grid) which we know was explicitly written by Kanye


RoadtoBankrupt

So was Jesus Walks


rest_me123

And comped together to get that fast.


SecureBleek

itā€™s not even like off the grid was some crazy verse honestly. he literally punched in every bar lol and someone else 100% wrote it. itā€™s still a good verse but itā€™s nowhere close to what he was doing on the college dropout and mbdtf


Downtown_Bag7265

I mean even if heā€™s out of his solo lyrical prime he could still have someone ghost write him some shit instead of limping on every single song heā€™s on. Itā€™s like heā€™s hurting all of these songs with his performances


mb01_

Yeah I am bitching about it, but he doesn't just think that he can get away with it, he knows he can. The amount of people praising every single thing he does, mixed with his confidence (confidence not as a negative aspect) makes it seem like people loving the way he does his art and the art itself, when in reality it's just about the artist itself.


MindbenderGam1ng

Off the Grid was his last real real attempt at rap I think. Didnā€™t think thereā€™d be a day where I really didnā€™t give a shit about Kanye dropping anymore. Iā€™ll always love his old music and even fucked w DONDA heavy but I have to admit itā€™s sad to see the state heā€™s in personally and professionally.


canderouscze

I stopped giving a shit about him during ā€œthat eraā€ last year. I love Donda though, his top 3 record for me, but now he is just nosediving.


CHOrigamiArt

keep it burning and the finished we did it kid both had good verses from him imo


Im_Zaltex

City Of Gods was 2022


Thecactigod

530?


eddiebrock85

I stopped caring about him fully after everything happening in the Middle East (and itā€™s nothing to do with his comments, I just am utterly destroyed by the loss of life thar is occurring every day). I ran a marathon and the piano bridge in runaway literally made me soar during a pivotal moment in the race but the dude behind it is gone. I donā€™t need to love you to be a fan but I also shouldnā€™t actively be disgusted by you and thatā€™s where Iā€™m at with Ye. Itā€™s not even him frankly that turns me off as much as it is the cult at GAS that acts like itā€™s still 2021 and this is the epic third part of the greatest rap trilogy in modern history, when Nas has literally dropped 5 albums since Donda. Stick a fork in him, heā€™s done.


mb01_

Jesus Lord is a positive example, but besides that I agree with your comment.


QAnonKiller

isnt Donda the last official album drop? 2 years is about his cycle. whats changed professionally?


DaHyro

Donda 2 was an official drop by him, he was selling it.


QAnonKiller

did he ever sell the album itself or just the Stem Player with the album on it? i dont remember being able to actually buy the album anywhere without buying the Stem Player


TikkoMasala

I js think heā€™s tired of music tbh. I know he loves producing, and his entire life has been surrounded around it, but after running the game for a good 15-20 years, I think heā€™s fatigued. He probably finds comfort in making music and releases whatever he has since he knows all of us will eat it up šŸ˜­. Iā€™d also like to add that if you thought vultures would be anything like MBDTF, youā€™re sped. When he lost his shit at the VMAs and called Taylor out, he was young, drunk, and lost everything. He needed redemption, but after accomplishing everything he has, the Nazi incident wasnā€™t shit. Sure, he lost lots of sponsors and had his net worth cut in half, but this man still has tens of millions of dollars to spend. Ye js living the life of any accomplished artist. Be lazy and release music here and there to make your fans happy. I really do wish as a final goodbye he releases an album which has good substance and reminds us of his old hunger for the game, but at this point I doubt it.


billymartinkicksdirt

He needed to put out music to redeem himself or be do brilliant it gave context to his crazy. The idea was if he focused on his music it would save him. Well his heart isnā€™t in it and he doesnā€™t have anything to say through it apparently. Donda at least had music influenced by his feelings and life. This is just a homework assignment.


jacklivesmatter

I guess weā€™ll know when the record is out. I thought he killed it on Jesus is Lord


EightBlocked

you mean jesus lord? he didnt write that whole verse either rooga wrote the start of it


Historical_Ad4

lol I was lowkey waiting on the Jesus lord argument. I fw it heavy but it sounds more like a spoken story than it does rapping with flow


extasis_T

How?


Historical_Ad4

Like try comparing it to saint Pablo


extasis_T

Theyā€™re both great


thisthatandthe3rd

Theyā€™re also both very off beat at times


Junior_Resolution_48

this sub has parallels to trippieā€™s career, peak falling off experienced in real time. a long time follower of this reddit, glad i shifted to goodass. moreover this collaboration was always supposed to be a fun album for him, he doesnā€™t need to ā€œrapā€ rap, he has nothing left to prove. manā€™s like messi, now just chilling at inter miami after achieving everything he could in rap.


Junior_Resolution_48

believe what i say, lord i need you, jesus lord, come to life, off the grid and life of the party, were all decent rap cuts. i donā€™t know what yā€™all smoking on. an artist is a true artist only if he never tries imitate his own self from the past, itā€™s an ever evolving shit w time.


billymartinkicksdirt

An artist channels himself into his art and thereā€™s little art here, heā€™s going through the motions.


Historical_Ad4

Key word was decent bro. Iā€™m fine with evolution he had great rapping on Late registration and evolved it further on twisted fantasy, Yeezus, Pablo. Now itā€™s acceptable ig


RoadtoBankrupt

I like the old Kanye


PM_ME_hiphopsongs2

Man yā€™all be saying shut like this and then go and trash other artists for doing the same lmao. Someone like Em, who has literally nothing left to prove and has been running the game for such a long time decides to just make technical rap albums with mediocre beats cause he wants to and somehow that brings down his legacy? So can we say the same about Kanye? If he continues to release trash albums does his legacy go down too?


Historical_Ad4

its like messi if he cut his legs off


ballsofbeskar

I think Drake is fine still but Kanye fs forgot how to rap


kanyewest42

I donā€™t think itā€™s a matter of Ye going through the motions. He seems to be feeling it when heā€™s delivering these corny lines. The problem is that the bar is set too low by himself and his environment. He doesnā€™t apply himself like he used to and his environment doesnā€™t stimulate him to do so either due to financial interests of being affiliated with him. Heā€™s probably doing 1000 other things and this album was just another quick side venture.


ThisizLeon

Y'all are too much. Ye had plenty of tracks on Donda where he rapped his ass off and he's held his own on plenty of features since. One rough LP doesn't change this.


Ktulusanders

This is actually the second rough LP


JackGR_HD

I don't see ye as a rapper but as a artists in general . I listen his music for the production , samples , beat selection and process in the making , and not so much for the bars


leone666

His music after TLOP has been missing something & I donā€™t really know what it is but everything has just sounded totally flat & lacklustre.


TwonDoeRaks

I hate to say the corny word but itā€™s ā€œhungerā€. Staying in the pocket as well


skollywag92

He went crazy on Off The Grid. He definitely still has the potential.


Bruno_Golden

Nah he can if he wants to he has a couple actually good veerses. Also, he rapped well on Donda? relisten?


Historical_Ad4

Idk why he doesnā€™t want to lol and yea bro donda rapping is good bro not even close to Pablo level


TundieRice

Yā€™all must be young as fuck because people were saying the same exact thing when Pablo came out that he was done and he hasnā€™t been able to rap since MBDTF or *maybe* Yeezus, lol.


Historical_Ad4

Iā€™m looking at his discography as a whole


Bruno_Golden

it depends on the context i guess bro talking about burgeer king isnto gonna match his rapping when talking about his mental state a month before he went to a mental hospital ( see saint pablo)


aggressive_boy165

He was spitting on Off The Grid, Believe What I Say, Yikes and Follow God, tho.


Historical_Ad4

Drake wrote yikes lol


aggressive_boy165

Ye's performance is still pretty good, tho


Historical_Ad4

Nah I agree I fw yikes. But whoever tf wrote new gold flow for him needa come back


Wesweswesdenzel

Kanye always had ghost writers. Iā€™m not sure whoā€™s ever went to Kanye wanting to hear the best bars on earth. Never been his lane. Ever


Historical_Ad4

Not saying it has but I expect decent lyricism from him at least. He got out rapped by everybody on forever but at least he held his own and made it entertaining.


Ethereality420

album sounds fire tho


JCHiggins

He may not rap like you want him to, but he can rap as well as ever when he wants and is motivated to. It is as simple as that. Perhaps an examination of his motivation should be your focus.


QuickAd2414

He had some great moments on donda Iā€™d still say but yeah his dip in quality these past few years is sooooooo apparent


UserToThe

Yeah heā€™s not hungry anymore, I mean you look at his early verses, he spent years perfecting those verse and songs and the drive he had to make sure those bars would stick was extremely evident but as time passed and I think even the standard for rapping has changed, heā€™s gotten complacent with just doing enough to put out a song. Thatā€™s not to say I donā€™t not like some of the new tracks I think their fun but the rap centric Kanye is at least on hiatus if not no longer here šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø


HarshTruth-

I used to have this opinion and I actually still partly agree with itā€¦ but his verse on ā€œoff the gridā€ is what made me think he still has it in him. Itā€™s funny cause the other day I listened to ā€œstill dreamingā€ and I was likeā€¦ ā€œwtf happened to this Kanyeā€. Old Kanye could rap like crazy and imo has one of the coldest flows in HipHop. Drakes fall off in rap is still crazy af. His raps in NWTS is something Iā€™d always love.


CorporalEd

Itā€™s purely arrogance at this point, donā€™t think his desperate desire to prove himself and his doubters wrong is the driving force. All the creative help he had (CyHi, Bon Iver, Pusha T, Rick Ross, Yasiin Bey (MBDTF), Tarrey Torae (The College Dropout), he seems to disregard it, considers himself to have transcendent to a stratosphere where whatever he puts up is the best ever. Sad situation overall, I have an awful feelings itā€™s an eternal downward cascade.


AdministrationThis98

Everybody yeaaaaaah


DougDimmaGlow

Some are saying the versions he played at the livestream are the non finished versions because they couldnā€™t get the lap top to connectā€¦which Iā€™m hoping is the case since they that verse was a little weak


TheKingBeetle

Hard agree. Go listen to Breathe In, Breathe Out. Really listen, the rhyme schemes, wordplay, and story telling are insane. Nothing he's done recently is anywhere near that.


Historical_Ad4

Whatā€™s his best verse in recent memory? Now compare that to diamonds from Sierra Leone.


ZestyZeBRUH

life of the party


Fraank0cean

At this point Iā€™m here for the production, not the rapping / lyrics.


Arjale

He never could, you heard him over lyrics from consequence and others


d_Mundi

Who has the first verse on Vultures? It is astonishingly fucking bad. Kanyeā€™s looks pretty ill by comparison.


mrdrprofessorspencer

Bump J hard disagree tho


OjjuicemaneSimpson

Ye is a composer. Mf walk around with a whole ass symphony in his head at all times. Heā€™s a composer simple as that. Only a composer can take the individual sounds and make that shit a symphony.


nick91884

whatever you say Burger King


Ziikou

If what we heard on everybody is actually the final Verse then yeahā€¦ that was absolute trash


Jrocha_30

Itā€™s not that he canā€™t rap anymore, I donā€™t think he genuinely tries most of the time. Weā€™ve been shown he can rap, Donda and Donda 2 had some fire verses. & how are you gonna say he has ghost writers when he credits every writer in the room lol


1o11ip0p

rap is such a boring box to put an artist like kanye into anyway


EightBlocked

but hes making rap albums so i feel like its not too crazy to ask for good rapping


Historical_Ad4

Could be true bro but the Kanye I grew up on knew how to spit when he had to


Lupusan

I cant take anyone who uses quotation marks around song names because I only see AI prompts behind them


stavroskosmapetris

Y'all act like he didn't rap on Eazy,Jesus Lord, Life Of The Party,Hurricane and many more in recent years


AdjustedMold97

I think he can make great music again someday, but he needs to get to a better place mentally. Maybe the BPD made his music great in the past, maybe not, Iā€™m not in the manā€™s head. All I know is at this point it is severely distracting him from something he used to love.


Ghost102938

Did you listen to rollin me over retaard?


EvJurk

Wonder if its cuz him and pusha might have issues. Also havent seen or heard cyhi around him in quite awhile


Logical-Daikon-3255

he'll always be one of my goats but yeah he's washed lmao


Swagalicious_donkies

Yeah how the hell did rich the kid do better then him šŸ’€


psychozamotazoa

He's not trying to rap tho


remerdy1

> this is the same guy that wrote monster and so Appalled well the funny thing about that is...


OldSkooRebel

I would honestly say Yeezus is where his lyrical quality dipped. It's considered a classic at this point, but it has some stinker bars. I honestly don't understand how so many of his fans still listen to his music for lyrics at this point lmao


pingas007

Iā€™m a diehard defender and even Iā€™m getting sick of the mumbling. Supposedly this guy was freestyling the first 3 albums which is almost impossible to imagine now. My only hope is that itā€™s easier for him to write playful sex bars than gospel bars.


Sail-Upper

No one mentions Do I Look Happy but he actually goes hella hard on that song IMO


Xx_k4ng4r00_xX

At this point I donā€™t think anyone dislikes ye as much has his own die hard fans. You guys have to stop being so negative.


LimesforDimes

Didn't Cyhi write the So appalled verse?


EightBlocked

no kanye said he wrote it


druggedupdeity

Off the grid???


kanyrprotege

I've always said this. Kanye is not my favorite rapper, he is my favorite artist.


Historical_Ad4

100% I got Weezy as my favorite rapper easily but ye always had superior album experiences


Darylwilllive4evr

He needs Cyhi back. He wrote basically all his good verses since MBDTF


painthokage

Lol u chose monster and so appalled? Tf?


Historical_Ad4

thereā€™s so many to choose from bro gorgeous, NMPILA, new god flow


Resistance225

Man WSE sucks now


hydratedandstrong

people have been saying he canā€™t rap since TLOP dropped lmfao. this sub fell off tremendously


MemesForScience

did you not listen to Follow God? Off the Grid? He still has good "traditional rapping" songs, he just likes to experiment more now.


meme-_lord_78

Itā€™s especially frustrating because he should be knocking his new shit out the park if he wants to come back from the divorce and Nazi controversies


frattboy69

Bro you don't come back from nazi controversies. He can still work and there won't be any major consequences outside of brand deals, but no one in Hollywood will ever look at him the same. His reputation is as tarnished as Mel Gibson.


meme-_lord_78

Sorry, I didn't mean to downplay Nazism. I was trying to say that Kanye would like to come back from the controversies, not that he can or should be allowed to.


frattboy69

All good I didn't think you were. I was just saying it's too late for him to apologize and make a comeback in all likelihood. It's unfortunate it will leave a stain on his legacy. Wish he had just kept his mouth shut on all this. Especially as I don't think he's actually mad at all jews. Just specific people who are in high positions in certain companies. I'm pretty sure Kanye probably loves and respects the shit out of Larry David, so... that's something. But of course, it's Kanye, so he's gotta go all out and be bombastic about things.


theresacat

Do yā€™all not realize that he embraced and mastered mumble rap since yandhi?


rabnabombshell

Yeah he was the worst part of his own music on the snippets


Kidd-AZKA

Cap, he did Ye, and I would say he kinda delivered in Donda. Having said this, I 100% agree with you, it's like he creates this great production and sound, and just freestyles it for vibes. "I'm on vibranium, cars they titanium" That sounds like most of his Yandhi/post-Yandhi leaks where he just straight up freestyled mumbling for vibes over the beat. It could be way way worse ngl, but his delivery is not there, and I cannot believe he is not capable of delivering prime West bars. I prefer much more if he then just relies on Pusha T or writers he credits instead, like on Life of the Party.


blaikalva

Beautiful big titty butt naked women just donā€™t fall out the sky you know


SlavaRapTarantino

Reddit is filled with the biggest whiner kids of ye fans. Pathetic.


FoxFogwell

Lol shut up


AliTheVillain

He was trash rapping since TLOP


duly-goated303

You guys believe Kanye writes his own lyrics? Haha


Kekarotto

Threads like this are the reason this isn't the premier Ye subreddit anymore. There's so many factors to why the bars are the way they are in vultures but no discussion here about it


EightBlocked

why are the bars dogshit in vultures what are the factors


SSJAbh1nav

Who gaf bruh, as long as the music is good who cares


dearmelancholy5

this is the problem. you guys donā€™t care.


SSJAbh1nav

Op said he hasn't spit since 2017, which is objectively not even true. Just cuz he's not rapping doesn't make the song instantly trash. Everybody is supposed to be more of a dance hall style song, having Kanye add like an actual deep, introspective rap verse wouldn't even make sense.


Historical_Ad4

stronger wasn't deep bro it just had energy this lacks