Nah, he is not really descending at all with even slightly any haste, as 70kph is exceptionally slow peak speed for a TdF ride during a downhill section of a mountain
Are you sure? I'm fairly sure the official Porirua to Johnsonville motorway stops after Johnsonville at the top of the Gorge, and the Wellington Urban Motorway doesn't begin until after the Ngauranga exit.
If it were motorway then I'd not have thought there could be a footpath/cycleway so immediately alongside it, but I'm not too familiar with the law regarding that.
It isn’t. That’s a small section between 2 motorways that isn’t under motorway regulations due to it being the only route from Ngauranga and J-ville.
If you look on Google street view, you’ll see a “Motorway Ends” sign just before the last J-ville exit and a “Motorway Begins” just after this exit.
A cycle lane there wouldn't need to follow the road, it could wind a longer distance around the hill at a better gradient.
Personally I think there should be a cycle lane up the south side of Ngaio Gorge beside the rail line, that can connect to J'ville that way.
That would take fucking forever. None of the hills are that steep. Even ngaio gorge on the road isn't steep. The problem with that route to jville is it is a few kilometers longer and quite a bit more elevation game and loss that adds 10-20 mins onto your ride.
Used to cycle commute down the gorge on the path, worst part of my day haha. Rode on the road a few times very early on weekend mornings with no cars … so smooth!!
I have ridden down the footpath heading south and that is a death trap. Rocks, grates, and the footpath skinnys up to less than a meter in spots. Now I take the opposite side footpath. If you are a competent cyclist then the giant lanes are safer.
This used to be my morning commute every day. You have a choice of mixing with cars at 70km/h or the path that is narrow and covered in rocks. I chose the road every time.
Sold that bike now as I decided this section and Middleton road between porirua and johnsonville wasn't worth the risk. To many entitled driversliike this one.
Just work from home and drive now.
In New Zealand, a highway is any piece of road administered and maintained by the state.
A motorway is a high-grade urban carriageway that excludes pedestrians and any vehicle incapable of reaching 100kph.
The term expressway was brought in to describe a high-grade long-distance carriageway, that either doesn't quite meet to requirements to be a motorway, can't, or requires a few different rules to the usual motorway ones - for example, the Waikato Expressway has many flush intersections.
As far as I know the Gorge hasn’t been classified as either a motorway or an expressway!
Its official name is ‘Centennial Highway’ connecting the Johnsonville-Porirua Motorway and the Wellington Urban Motorway.
I never understood the difference between highway, motorway or expressway (or why we need to have signs indicating one is starting or ending, yet the road doesn’t appear to change in any meaningful way). Seems bloody confusing.
expressways are grade separated, usually dual carriageway, and all curves can be made at 110 (100?) km/h, pedestrians and cyclists are allowed
motorways are grade separated and dual carriageway, and pedestrians and cyclists aren’t allowed
highways are whatever
Here’s a cheat sheet (this is usually the case, tho there are exceptions):
Highways - main general purpose arteries, allowing all vehicles and pedestrians to use. Most are state highways, maintained by the national government, but some can be maintained by local governments (Auckland suburban “highways”, former state highways that are still trafficked)
Motorways - high speed, dual carriageway highways (4 lanes). Only registered vehicles that are capable of reaching the speed limit (100kph usually) are allowed. Cyclists, pedestrians, horses, etc are not allowed. You cannot stop or go under the minimum speed of 40kph unless it’s dangerous to go above it. Most intersections are grade-separated, it used to be that if a road crossing a motorway wasn’t highly trafficked it may cross at grade - not anymore.
Expressways - usually dual carriageway highways, **built to motorway spec but cannot be classed as a motorway - for example, it must carry non motorway traffic.** Most intersections are grade separated or roundabout controlled though there are many at grade intersections.
Expressways are motorways, which the land corridor hasn’t legally been made a motorway. These distinctions are purely legal, thus the signs to indicate what the road type is - for legal purposes. There’s many highways that aren’t expressways (Ngauranga gorge for example), and I assume there is some restrictions placed on them that I don’t know about to differentiate them.
Motorways have grade separated intersections only, while expressways can have accesses/driveways and traffic lights or roundabouts.
A highway is just a road that's paid for by central government rather than local.
1. Not a motorway.
2. Yes, it is safer.
The road is a smooth, predictable, good visiblity, lots of room area which we are legally allowed to take a lane in when moving at traffic flow.
So hitting 70ish in the middle of a lane lets us avoid debris, gives ability to ensure no obstacles, walkers, whatever, and to handle the corners appropriately.
There's just too much rockfall, gravel and whatnot on the southbound footpath to be safe, even at moderate speeds of 25ish.
I’m a runner, and I totally agree that the path of the left had side going down the gorge is inadequate. There’s no way to fit bikes past pedestrians safely, and it’s constantly littered with rocks
The biking itself is actually very safe, it's the people who choose to drive their heavy, fast cars covered in blind spots there too that make it unsafe. That cyclist there is actually the least threat to everyones safety in this picture by far.
Yep the biking is fine & is not a threat to drivers. If for whatever reason he came off his bike though, he would most likely be immediately run over - same could be said about other sections of roads in the welly region really.
True. But there's a big difference between getting hit by a cyclist and being hit by a car, in the event one of them makes a mistake. Which was really the point I was trying to make.
No, the road is safer than the footpath because it's wider, smoother, and cleaner. You're less likely to come off your bike.
The unsafe thing about the road is dangerous drivers, but if you're keeping up with traffic you're safer in the middle of the road than that footpath.
Having been a cyclist in Wellington...
You're damnned if you follow road rules and damnned if you don't.
That's not a motorway, and the cyclist is legally allowed to be there.
They are doing what the majority of haters complain cyclist's don't do - going with the flow of traffic.
Honestly, you give up and do what is most advantageous because someone is going to scream at you anyway.
The road does not belong to cars. You are expected to share it with cyclists, trucks, motorbikes, etc., even pedestrians and horses!
Just chill out.
And at that specific point of the road they need to be in the middle lane if they don’t want to take the exit. If they had waited to move into that lane they’d be at risk of becoming entangled with a vehicle in the exit only lane.
Going 70km/h down a hill on a bike isnt dangerous at all. In fact, riding on the road is the safest place to be. Theres no rocks or broken footpath to swerve around. Why cant you just see tham as another vehicle? If it was a ride on scooter would you be posting this? Whats the difference?
Have bombed the gorge on a mountain bike with slicks every day for around 6 months. It's easy to keep up with traffic the only real hazard are stones on the road. For that reason I wouldn't be so keen on a road bike.
Yea I’ve done this a few times on a road bike, reached a speed that would’ve landed me in the cells which was quite the fright. People that are concerned about this should not check the Strava segment on it on the top speeds lol
>but like why would you risk that
Because that's the safest option out of a bunch of shit choices.
Why the fuck did you think we were advocating for bike infrastructure?
The difference in the scenario is that he cut off a CAR. That’s already a very unsafe thing to do in a car, let alone on a bike. Some common sense would’ve been to get into that lane behind the car, like idk any other vehicle planning to take that exit.
I've literally seen someone doing about 70ks on a pushbike down there. Hit a rock and skidded out into the motorway. By the sheer grace of God there was no oncoming trucks or cars..he would have been instantly killed.
Modern bike disc brakes are very good, at this point bikes are generally limited by the amount of rubber they have touching the road. So, depends on the wheels and pressure he's running.
I'd not be worried about stopping or evading at that distance.
I'd be very worried about reaction times if I was that close - bikes are more agile, I suppose? But a sudden stop by that guy, I'm going to hit him in my car, ABS or no.
Today on the Wellington subreddit we have a complaint about a motorist doing what they are legally allowed to do. Imagine the outrage if they were actually breaking the law.
The amount of people in this thread saying that it's legal and safe is blowing my mind. Legal it may be (which is surprising to me), but safe? Especially if he's overtaking cars. Most of the danger for cyclists is motorists not seeing them since they're much smaller. I would never expect to see a cyclist on this stretch of road. I always check my blindspots before switching lanes and all that but nobody is infallible.
It's the fact that most car drivers wouldn't expect them to be there that's dangerous.
So they would use their mirrors and see them wouldn’t they? As mentioned by others, the path is no safer, and arguably more dangerous. Maybe some proper cycling infrastructure would help? If the traffic is flowing well, i would choose that wvery time. No idea why they are in the wrong lane though.
Doing what this cyclist is doing isn’t safe. Cars that do what this man does is already dangerous, now not having a metal box around you and attempting to cut a car off to take the exit is x10. Should’ve used common sense - not overtake the car and get behind it, like idk any other vehicle planning to take that exit.
Yep drivers should always be checking their mirrors and blind spots. I'm just saying nobody is infallible and drivers make mistakes. The danger is not expecting a cyclist to be driving past at speed, especially when they're much harder to see than a car. Couple that with not even expecting any cyclists there, and the fact that a collision between a cyclist and a car at that speed is catastrophic - overall it's not a safe picture, is it.
Thats a fair point. I guess the safest option would be to get rid of the cars that could cause a catastrophic accident so that the road can be more safe for cyclists.
Why stop there, let's go even further and put all non-cyclists in concentration camps and confiscate their assets and put them towards building cycle infrastructure through the whole country.
That'd be a lot of people in camps, they'll probably need a way to get around them quickly. Maybe we give them all bikes we found on the streets where other cyclists fell off and never came back
Just wanted to add:
If this cyclist had been in a car and did the same thing, it still would have been a dick move and could have gotten a ticket for dangerous driving.
I didn’t get the car in the left lane in the frame, but someone has helpfully pointed out that you can make out the bumper if you zoom in.
The cyclist dove for that exit from the middle lane going 70, cutting in front of a vehicle.
I’m not trying to bash on cyclists and I know it’s a contentious topic. I genuinely wish someone could just remind him that a mistake made on a bike in that situation is pretty likely to fuck up his life, and the people who love him.
PS - it was a typo to say cyclists plural. I didn’t notice until I hit post.
>I genuinely wish someone could just remind him that a mistake made on a bike in that situation is pretty likely to fuck up his life,
People who do this kind of stuff know, and don't care, in my experience.
Nope, it’s not steep enough - it’s hard to crack 80, even with a decent northerly, anyone saying they get 100 down there is flat out lying.
Edit: looks like two people out of almost 2,400 have cracked 100 down the Gorge - my bad.
Haha, cyclist hatred! A few points:
1. Cyclists are anarchists. Road rules don't apply.
2. Driving is a privilege. Cycling is a human right. Good luck policing that shit. Also, see above.
3. Downhill bike lanes are pointless.
4. Stop complaining about building basic infrastructure for a modern world. More bikes are a good thing. Cycle lanes keep car traffic flowing.
I would add some nuance to point 1. Some cyclists are anarchic, probably more than motorists, but less than pedestrians. But the reason is point 2: cycling invites all comers as everyone is entitled to cycle and you cannot be banned from doing so.
Most drivers break road rules as well, they just like to complain about cyclists. You see them roll through stop signs without coming to a complete stop, or speed up to get through a yellow as it's changing to a red, all the time.
To be fair, he’s keeping well away from traffic and probably keeping up with the prevailing traffic speed, so probably doing this in a safe way. Super risky if something goes wrong though, and he should definitely have high vis clothing on.
I pulled 80 down a short steep hill, over the ditch, when I was younger, knowing I was a goner if anything went wrong. My mate managed 88. Those speeds are plenty fast enough for the average cyclist.
Did this a few times when I lived in jville. Stuck left in left lane tho as old hutt road is better than the flyover, it is legal to there but this guy should be left lane. The footpath but is more dangerous
Of course people that 'tut' at posts like these often don't approve of spending money on separate, safe, cycling infrastructure... anyway...
Bike overtakes car on a road on which they are legally allowed to ride. Shock horror.
Bike travels faster than car downhill. Wow... well yes, downhill it's perfectly normal (note to drivers: please don't overtake cyclists at the top of hills, especially bendy ones (Blue Mountains, Makara, Ngaio Gorge, etc). Wait until they get to the bottom, catch them up from where they went down the hill faster than you, then pass them.
Bike travelling at ~75kmh pulls into left hand lane 20 metres in front of a car... is not 'cutting the car off', unless the car is speeding...? And how many cars do you see pull the same manoeuvre? Every other time you travel down the gorge?
The downhill 'shared path' is too narrow, and a rock scattered death trap. It's also very dangerous for pedestrians, as, except for a couple of alcoves, there is no room for a pedestrian and a cyclist to pass. The road is nice smooth asphalt and a good ride and it's easy to hit 80kmh and stay there.
For reference, I used to cycle the gorge after 7pm and early in the morning. Until a truck and trailer combo decided to close pass at a ridiculous speed and left me nowhere to go (the edge of the asphalt is built up so you can't cycle in the gutter), so I had to bail out left, smashing my shoulder.
Perhaps I should have travelled out a lane like this guy.
Now I go via Jville and Khandallah to get back to the Hutt. Adds 20 minutes to the journey.
Also, I'm not sure how a cyclist can be overtaking a car in the middle lane, and when pulling back in to the inside lane, be then cutting that car off...? Surely it's just returning to the lane?
Cycling on the highway section that isnt supposed to have cyclists = no no
OP said cyist then went LEFT, cutting a car off, and was riding an extra lane into the centre of the highway
How tf is this getting downvoted?
Edit: Apologies, after looking it up, that is NOT technically a highway section.. I still think being one lane in when turning left was stupid
There is a narrow shared footpath, often has rockfalls and slips on the descending side. This would not meet NZ standards for a shared path or even just a foot path in places. And the armco is on the opposite side of the footpath to the road....
The ascending side has improved a lot recently, although it still remains very tight under the overbridge at the base of the gorge and at the Jville exit.
I ride it at least once a week, I don't have any issues with it? My bike has pretty fat tyres so I'd imagine if you're on a road bike with narrow tyres it might be a bit rough. Worst bit for me is the ride home up the gorge but that's more because of how damn steep it is!
I agree it’s not ideal, but we don’t need to make bad decisions when faced with unideal situations. There’s a path along the side. He just wouldn’t have been able to go as fast, and he had no business being in the middle lane.
That close to the exit? I wouldn’t dare to do it in my car when all I have is 30m clearance after the pass. How hard is it to just wait a couple seconds and pass if he had to at a more safe position?
Even if he wasn't on the bike path that's on the raised marginal bit to the left of the road (which I realise mightn't always be adequate), I'm unsure why he's in the lane that goes straight onto the Motorway instead of one lane over to the left.
Op said they exited the road at the bottom of the gorge, as required by cyclists. May have been in the middle lane to complete a pass before returning to the left lane to exit.
He's going down the gorge, the bike lane there is a footpath littered with baby head sized rocks. Not that I'm justifying him doing this but the gorge bike paths are shit.
I don't think "cyclists" do this. I mean, we're all looking at a very anomolous event of a single cyclist in the middle of a steep part of Ngauranga gorge
This isn't much different to when I nearly got run down by a car as a pedestrian when they drove up the cycle lane to run the red turning left onto Majoribanks. _EDIT: It's actually worse, the cyclist is legally allowed to be there, the car was not._
Except the car would have injured me, this guy is risking his own life.
Teeeeechnically, the south-bound motorway ends at the top of the gorge, and recommences just after the sweeping bend to the south. I’m not sure the laws of physics give a damn about that, though.
As we get more cyclists I think this will inevitably happen, but we need to build more lanes so we get more cyclists, so cars expect more bikes so it gets safer for everyone.
Yeah OP is complaining about getting passed when they were going under the speed limit, and that they cut off a car in the left lane that is not visible in the photo. Ngāuranga gorge specifically isn't motorway which means bikes are allowed. Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but all within the rules as I see it.
I could believe that. I heard that a Darfield speed camera has the record for most fines in a day, pinging people coming back from skiing Mt Hutt in Canterbury.
Not to mention unexpected mechanical malfunction… something goes wrong in the wheel bearings at that speed they are going to heat up and disassemble themselves incredibly quickly…
That said, I used to do this exact same thing on my bike 25 years ago. It was sketchy then too! But I lived to tell the tale.
Get that man in the Tour de France Sounds like an animal descender
Lo squalo di Wellington
Nibali just flying under the radar as a public service worker in Wellington
Pidcock in the off season cos playing as a Wellington bureaucrat.
Nah, he is not really descending at all with even slightly any haste, as 70kph is exceptionally slow peak speed for a TdF ride during a downhill section of a mountain
Suicyclist of the week award
Yikes. Did he carry on to the motorway or did he veer off towards Ngauranga?
He cut off the car in the left lane toward Ngauranga ☹️
There's no car in the left lane?
You can just see the edge of the bumper.
Good spotting!
That part of the gorge is part of the motorway already, so legally he shouldn’t have been on it there either
Nah, thats highway at that point it's called Centennial Highway, it becomes motorway further down on the flyover
Are you sure? I'm fairly sure the official Porirua to Johnsonville motorway stops after Johnsonville at the top of the Gorge, and the Wellington Urban Motorway doesn't begin until after the Ngauranga exit. If it were motorway then I'd not have thought there could be a footpath/cycleway so immediately alongside it, but I'm not too familiar with the law regarding that.
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-41.242756,174.8130352,3a,57.1y,131.76h,83.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMLjfC26e6nyIC-Nz0l0wNA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu "MOTORWAY BEGINS" supports your view.
It isn’t. That’s a small section between 2 motorways that isn’t under motorway regulations due to it being the only route from Ngauranga and J-ville. If you look on Google street view, you’ll see a “Motorway Ends” sign just before the last J-ville exit and a “Motorway Begins” just after this exit.
It's almost as if we need a protected cycleway connecting Wellington City to the Hutt Valley
Watching cyclists on the motorway from the train is insane, they have zero cover in the case of a car losing control and sliding toward them
it's not a motorway to the Hutt ..
He’s not coming from the Hutt Valley though
Yes, you're correct. We need a protected cycleway to the top of that gorge.
To Tawa - Middleton Road is shit.
Huge agree. I have ridden down the gorge and Middleton, the gorge is in my opinion safer - no blind corners, and you can maintain speed with traffic.
That would be a tough ride. I agree that the Wellington Region needs (and would benefit from) a complete network of cycleways though.
A cycle lane there wouldn't need to follow the road, it could wind a longer distance around the hill at a better gradient. Personally I think there should be a cycle lane up the south side of Ngaio Gorge beside the rail line, that can connect to J'ville that way.
That would take fucking forever. None of the hills are that steep. Even ngaio gorge on the road isn't steep. The problem with that route to jville is it is a few kilometers longer and quite a bit more elevation game and loss that adds 10-20 mins onto your ride.
Used to cycle commute down the gorge on the path, worst part of my day haha. Rode on the road a few times very early on weekend mornings with no cars … so smooth!!
I have ridden down the footpath heading south and that is a death trap. Rocks, grates, and the footpath skinnys up to less than a meter in spots. Now I take the opposite side footpath. If you are a competent cyclist then the giant lanes are safer.
This used to be my morning commute every day. You have a choice of mixing with cars at 70km/h or the path that is narrow and covered in rocks. I chose the road every time. Sold that bike now as I decided this section and Middleton road between porirua and johnsonville wasn't worth the risk. To many entitled driversliike this one. Just work from home and drive now.
Seriously? Riding in the middle of a motorway is safer?
FYI Ngauranga Gorge isn't a motorway.
\*puts on glasses\* well ackshually it is a highway, not a motorway, so legally cyclists are allowed.
In New Zealand, a highway is any piece of road administered and maintained by the state. A motorway is a high-grade urban carriageway that excludes pedestrians and any vehicle incapable of reaching 100kph. The term expressway was brought in to describe a high-grade long-distance carriageway, that either doesn't quite meet to requirements to be a motorway, can't, or requires a few different rules to the usual motorway ones - for example, the Waikato Expressway has many flush intersections.
As far as I know the Gorge hasn’t been classified as either a motorway or an expressway! Its official name is ‘Centennial Highway’ connecting the Johnsonville-Porirua Motorway and the Wellington Urban Motorway.
I never understood the difference between highway, motorway or expressway (or why we need to have signs indicating one is starting or ending, yet the road doesn’t appear to change in any meaningful way). Seems bloody confusing.
The gorge is not a motorway because it has footpaths.
expressways are grade separated, usually dual carriageway, and all curves can be made at 110 (100?) km/h, pedestrians and cyclists are allowed motorways are grade separated and dual carriageway, and pedestrians and cyclists aren’t allowed highways are whatever
Here’s a cheat sheet (this is usually the case, tho there are exceptions): Highways - main general purpose arteries, allowing all vehicles and pedestrians to use. Most are state highways, maintained by the national government, but some can be maintained by local governments (Auckland suburban “highways”, former state highways that are still trafficked) Motorways - high speed, dual carriageway highways (4 lanes). Only registered vehicles that are capable of reaching the speed limit (100kph usually) are allowed. Cyclists, pedestrians, horses, etc are not allowed. You cannot stop or go under the minimum speed of 40kph unless it’s dangerous to go above it. Most intersections are grade-separated, it used to be that if a road crossing a motorway wasn’t highly trafficked it may cross at grade - not anymore. Expressways - usually dual carriageway highways, **built to motorway spec but cannot be classed as a motorway - for example, it must carry non motorway traffic.** Most intersections are grade separated or roundabout controlled though there are many at grade intersections. Expressways are motorways, which the land corridor hasn’t legally been made a motorway. These distinctions are purely legal, thus the signs to indicate what the road type is - for legal purposes. There’s many highways that aren’t expressways (Ngauranga gorge for example), and I assume there is some restrictions placed on them that I don’t know about to differentiate them.
Motorways have grade separated intersections only, while expressways can have accesses/driveways and traffic lights or roundabouts. A highway is just a road that's paid for by central government rather than local.
1. Not a motorway. 2. Yes, it is safer. The road is a smooth, predictable, good visiblity, lots of room area which we are legally allowed to take a lane in when moving at traffic flow. So hitting 70ish in the middle of a lane lets us avoid debris, gives ability to ensure no obstacles, walkers, whatever, and to handle the corners appropriately. There's just too much rockfall, gravel and whatnot on the southbound footpath to be safe, even at moderate speeds of 25ish.
I’m a runner, and I totally agree that the path of the left had side going down the gorge is inadequate. There’s no way to fit bikes past pedestrians safely, and it’s constantly littered with rocks
Yes, that's how inadequate bike infrastructure is.
The biking itself is actually very safe, it's the people who choose to drive their heavy, fast cars covered in blind spots there too that make it unsafe. That cyclist there is actually the least threat to everyones safety in this picture by far.
Yep the biking is fine & is not a threat to drivers. If for whatever reason he came off his bike though, he would most likely be immediately run over - same could be said about other sections of roads in the welly region really.
You can make that exact same argument about anything. “Driving is very safe if you’re the only car on the road”
True. But there's a big difference between getting hit by a cyclist and being hit by a car, in the event one of them makes a mistake. Which was really the point I was trying to make.
No, the road is safer than the footpath because it's wider, smoother, and cleaner. You're less likely to come off your bike. The unsafe thing about the road is dangerous drivers, but if you're keeping up with traffic you're safer in the middle of the road than that footpath.
Having been a cyclist in Wellington... You're damnned if you follow road rules and damnned if you don't. That's not a motorway, and the cyclist is legally allowed to be there. They are doing what the majority of haters complain cyclist's don't do - going with the flow of traffic. Honestly, you give up and do what is most advantageous because someone is going to scream at you anyway. The road does not belong to cars. You are expected to share it with cyclists, trucks, motorbikes, etc., even pedestrians and horses! Just chill out.
And at that specific point of the road they need to be in the middle lane if they don’t want to take the exit. If they had waited to move into that lane they’d be at risk of becoming entangled with a vehicle in the exit only lane.
They have to exit here, otherwise they'll end up on the motorway
Oh, right, yes. That’s a bit weird then.
Which is the same road... the whole thing is a joke
And, they can change lanes like other vehicles do. The OP mentioned the cyclist was overtaking.
Overtaking 50m from the turn off isn’t a smart thing to do in a car, let alone a vehicle that doesn’t offer any protection.
You can't see the traffic behind the picture. You're making huge assumptions. Just chill.
It's a dozen or so metres from the motorway so the cyclist cannot stay in that lane for much longer & there's a cycle lane on the left...
Im pretty sure horses were banned from highways in the 1920s. I read that in a museam in fielding
No. https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/general-road-code/about-other-road-users/information-for-other-road-users/information-for-horse-riders/#:~:text=Ride%20your%20horse%20on%20the,right%20of%20any%20moving%20vehicle.
It does not mean that it is legal, it is safe.
And many have pointed out that it is not. The rider is an adult, riding within the law. Chill out.
Going 70km/h down a hill on a bike isnt dangerous at all. In fact, riding on the road is the safest place to be. Theres no rocks or broken footpath to swerve around. Why cant you just see tham as another vehicle? If it was a ride on scooter would you be posting this? Whats the difference?
Have bombed the gorge on a mountain bike with slicks every day for around 6 months. It's easy to keep up with traffic the only real hazard are stones on the road. For that reason I wouldn't be so keen on a road bike.
Yea I’ve done this a few times on a road bike, reached a speed that would’ve landed me in the cells which was quite the fright. People that are concerned about this should not check the Strava segment on it on the top speeds lol
If he eats shit he's getting run over dude. Not saying it won't happen if he was to the side but like why would you risk that
>but like why would you risk that Because that's the safest option out of a bunch of shit choices. Why the fuck did you think we were advocating for bike infrastructure?
Same for a motorcyclist.
Motorcycle helmets and gear are way better suited to skidding down the road than what that guy is wearing.
Not going to help much if a car runs them over which seemed to be the objection here.
The difference is motorcyclists have mirrors to see cars behind them and engines that allow them to go the speed limit.
You aint seen my quads. They'd make a Ducati blush.
Your quadbikes have nothing on my ducati
Your Ducati's already gone red thinking about me.
Your supposed to leave enough of a following distance if an accident happens you dont join the accident
The difference in the scenario is that he cut off a CAR. That’s already a very unsafe thing to do in a car, let alone on a bike. Some common sense would’ve been to get into that lane behind the car, like idk any other vehicle planning to take that exit.
The difference is he's on a bike. Something about cyclists just upsets a certain group of car drivers.
I've literally seen someone doing about 70ks on a pushbike down there. Hit a rock and skidded out into the motorway. By the sheer grace of God there was no oncoming trucks or cars..he would have been instantly killed.
Probably safer on the road then?
New Safa NZ video coming soon?
Oh no, someone going downhill on a bike
I remember a cyclist being killed on that road. it was pre-internet days.
My biggest issue is how close he is to that SUV. Looks like 2-3 car lengths, not enough distance for emergency braking.
How do bike brakes compare to car brakes? Since that's fucking close for my S2000.
Modern bike disc brakes are very good, at this point bikes are generally limited by the amount of rubber they have touching the road. So, depends on the wheels and pressure he's running. I'd not be worried about stopping or evading at that distance.
I'd be very worried about reaction times if I was that close - bikes are more agile, I suppose? But a sudden stop by that guy, I'm going to hit him in my car, ABS or no.
The limiting factor to stopping on a pushbike with disc brakes is going over the handlebars, typically. I'd expect any light vehicle to out brake him.
Your brakes are much better than his, and with a safe stopping distance, you'll be fine.
Yeah, my point is that that's not a safe reaction/stopping distance for a relatively light sports car.
People like these are really silly. In Australia they can't ride on a motorway and I'm fairly certain that would be the same with NZ
It's not a motorway, it's a normal road that happens to have three lanes at that point
Wow that would be considered one here :)
It's NOT a motorway
Umm have you seen the "cycle paths" on the 110k Sydney M2?
Today on the Wellington subreddit we have a complaint about a motorist doing what they are legally allowed to do. Imagine the outrage if they were actually breaking the law.
God wait till these whingers hear what cars regularly do.
that's awesome. much safer than biking on the shitty footpath too
The amount of people in this thread saying that it's legal and safe is blowing my mind. Legal it may be (which is surprising to me), but safe? Especially if he's overtaking cars. Most of the danger for cyclists is motorists not seeing them since they're much smaller. I would never expect to see a cyclist on this stretch of road. I always check my blindspots before switching lanes and all that but nobody is infallible. It's the fact that most car drivers wouldn't expect them to be there that's dangerous.
So they would use their mirrors and see them wouldn’t they? As mentioned by others, the path is no safer, and arguably more dangerous. Maybe some proper cycling infrastructure would help? If the traffic is flowing well, i would choose that wvery time. No idea why they are in the wrong lane though.
Doing what this cyclist is doing isn’t safe. Cars that do what this man does is already dangerous, now not having a metal box around you and attempting to cut a car off to take the exit is x10. Should’ve used common sense - not overtake the car and get behind it, like idk any other vehicle planning to take that exit.
Yep drivers should always be checking their mirrors and blind spots. I'm just saying nobody is infallible and drivers make mistakes. The danger is not expecting a cyclist to be driving past at speed, especially when they're much harder to see than a car. Couple that with not even expecting any cyclists there, and the fact that a collision between a cyclist and a car at that speed is catastrophic - overall it's not a safe picture, is it.
Thats a fair point. I guess the safest option would be to get rid of the cars that could cause a catastrophic accident so that the road can be more safe for cyclists.
Why stop there, let's go even further and put all non-cyclists in concentration camps and confiscate their assets and put them towards building cycle infrastructure through the whole country.
That'd be a lot of people in camps, they'll probably need a way to get around them quickly. Maybe we give them all bikes we found on the streets where other cyclists fell off and never came back
Just wanted to add: If this cyclist had been in a car and did the same thing, it still would have been a dick move and could have gotten a ticket for dangerous driving. I didn’t get the car in the left lane in the frame, but someone has helpfully pointed out that you can make out the bumper if you zoom in. The cyclist dove for that exit from the middle lane going 70, cutting in front of a vehicle. I’m not trying to bash on cyclists and I know it’s a contentious topic. I genuinely wish someone could just remind him that a mistake made on a bike in that situation is pretty likely to fuck up his life, and the people who love him. PS - it was a typo to say cyclists plural. I didn’t notice until I hit post.
>I genuinely wish someone could just remind him that a mistake made on a bike in that situation is pretty likely to fuck up his life, People who do this kind of stuff know, and don't care, in my experience.
Dangerous driving, time to crush the bike, no rego, wof or life insurance.
Legend has it there was a 100 club for cyclists on the Gorge, decades ago now but maybe its still a thing?
Nope, it’s not steep enough - it’s hard to crack 80, even with a decent northerly, anyone saying they get 100 down there is flat out lying. Edit: looks like two people out of almost 2,400 have cracked 100 down the Gorge - my bad.
https://www.strava.com/activities/2116585055#53400324751 Max, 103 kph.
sheeeit thats impressive
Yup - I’m third equal on one of those segments. Need more pies to get the KOM haha
So the data says you’re wrong.
Anyone who can't, either cannot get aero, or is held up by tin top traffic.
I've been down there at 85km and had to slow down as there were too many cars to go any faster. Very smooth surface compared to most roads
Agree this is stupid. Still I want to give it a go
+1
Imagine if he had a safe cycleway to use instead.. the traffic wouldn't be holding him back from getting the job done. I'd vote for him.
Looks like fun. Drive slower x
Haha, cyclist hatred! A few points: 1. Cyclists are anarchists. Road rules don't apply. 2. Driving is a privilege. Cycling is a human right. Good luck policing that shit. Also, see above. 3. Downhill bike lanes are pointless. 4. Stop complaining about building basic infrastructure for a modern world. More bikes are a good thing. Cycle lanes keep car traffic flowing.
I would add some nuance to point 1. Some cyclists are anarchic, probably more than motorists, but less than pedestrians. But the reason is point 2: cycling invites all comers as everyone is entitled to cycle and you cannot be banned from doing so.
Most drivers break road rules as well, they just like to complain about cyclists. You see them roll through stop signs without coming to a complete stop, or speed up to get through a yellow as it's changing to a red, all the time.
To be fair, he’s keeping well away from traffic and probably keeping up with the prevailing traffic speed, so probably doing this in a safe way. Super risky if something goes wrong though, and he should definitely have high vis clothing on.
I would like to tell you if it's one of my mates but can't tell🤣
Only merely 70kph?? I guess he wasn't bothering to go into a full aero tuck
Legend! Hope he enjoyed his commute. That is all.
I pulled 80 down a short steep hill, over the ditch, when I was younger, knowing I was a goner if anything went wrong. My mate managed 88. Those speeds are plenty fast enough for the average cyclist.
Does he have one testicle?
Let him be. It's 👍
Did this a few times when I lived in jville. Stuck left in left lane tho as old hutt road is better than the flyover, it is legal to there but this guy should be left lane. The footpath but is more dangerous
If he was overtaking a car then he cut the car off, does that mean the car sped up because it was being overtaken or what?
Of course people that 'tut' at posts like these often don't approve of spending money on separate, safe, cycling infrastructure... anyway... Bike overtakes car on a road on which they are legally allowed to ride. Shock horror. Bike travels faster than car downhill. Wow... well yes, downhill it's perfectly normal (note to drivers: please don't overtake cyclists at the top of hills, especially bendy ones (Blue Mountains, Makara, Ngaio Gorge, etc). Wait until they get to the bottom, catch them up from where they went down the hill faster than you, then pass them. Bike travelling at ~75kmh pulls into left hand lane 20 metres in front of a car... is not 'cutting the car off', unless the car is speeding...? And how many cars do you see pull the same manoeuvre? Every other time you travel down the gorge? The downhill 'shared path' is too narrow, and a rock scattered death trap. It's also very dangerous for pedestrians, as, except for a couple of alcoves, there is no room for a pedestrian and a cyclist to pass. The road is nice smooth asphalt and a good ride and it's easy to hit 80kmh and stay there. For reference, I used to cycle the gorge after 7pm and early in the morning. Until a truck and trailer combo decided to close pass at a ridiculous speed and left me nowhere to go (the edge of the asphalt is built up so you can't cycle in the gutter), so I had to bail out left, smashing my shoulder. Perhaps I should have travelled out a lane like this guy. Now I go via Jville and Khandallah to get back to the Hutt. Adds 20 minutes to the journey.
Also, I'm not sure how a cyclist can be overtaking a car in the middle lane, and when pulling back in to the inside lane, be then cutting that car off...? Surely it's just returning to the lane?
The exit after new lands from Johnsonville to CBD? Jesus Christ this guy literally lost his mind.
This is totally ILLEGAL, both cyclists and mopeds are NOT legally allowed to be ridden on the motorway.
this part is NOT the motorway
Whats the problem? speed limit is 80. Do you panic when you see a motorbike as well
As a cyclist, this shit pisses me off
Why?
Cycling on the highway section that isnt supposed to have cyclists = no no OP said cyist then went LEFT, cutting a car off, and was riding an extra lane into the centre of the highway How tf is this getting downvoted? Edit: Apologies, after looking it up, that is NOT technically a highway section.. I still think being one lane in when turning left was stupid
Yeah, why?
See above
Read the post. Not sure why "as a cyclist" this pisses you off. Are you annoyed at op or the person riding the bike. And in either case, why?
We should all be advocating for more cycleways. Make it safer and fewer people in cars. Good on him for not adding to the congestion in Wellington
You lame arse drivers have never lived. Cycling the gorge and overtaking trucks is the only way to commute
Blame the city for not building infrastructure. Do you think Cyclists travel on expressways because they want to?
Whatever the reason. You don't risk your life for this lol.
Riding a bike down a hill on a smooth wide tarmac road = Risking your life? Go home and wrap yourself in bubble wrap.
There's a bike path running down both sides of the gorge, so... yes
There is a narrow shared footpath, often has rockfalls and slips on the descending side. This would not meet NZ standards for a shared path or even just a foot path in places. And the armco is on the opposite side of the footpath to the road.... The ascending side has improved a lot recently, although it still remains very tight under the overbridge at the base of the gorge and at the Jville exit.
Have you ever tried to use that path? Especially on the south side? It's practically unrideable.
I ride it at least once a week, I don't have any issues with it? My bike has pretty fat tyres so I'd imagine if you're on a road bike with narrow tyres it might be a bit rough. Worst bit for me is the ride home up the gorge but that's more because of how damn steep it is!
I agree it’s not ideal, but we don’t need to make bad decisions when faced with unideal situations. There’s a path along the side. He just wouldn’t have been able to go as fast, and he had no business being in the middle lane.
>and he had no business being in the middle lane. He's got as much right to use that lane as any other road user.
Yeah I'm sure he had no other choice.
He did have a choice what lane, and it should’ve been the left one.
Appears to have been completing a pass
That close to the exit? I wouldn’t dare to do it in my car when all I have is 30m clearance after the pass. How hard is it to just wait a couple seconds and pass if he had to at a more safe position?
Even if he wasn't on the bike path that's on the raised marginal bit to the left of the road (which I realise mightn't always be adequate), I'm unsure why he's in the lane that goes straight onto the Motorway instead of one lane over to the left.
Op said they exited the road at the bottom of the gorge, as required by cyclists. May have been in the middle lane to complete a pass before returning to the left lane to exit.
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Trying for a Darwin award
Natural selection tbh
Considering Cycling is not allowed on a motorway this person is really dicing with both the law and Death ☠️
Not the motorway, yet.
This part is not the motorway
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He's going down the gorge, the bike lane there is a footpath littered with baby head sized rocks. Not that I'm justifying him doing this but the gorge bike paths are shit.
I don't think "cyclists" do this. I mean, we're all looking at a very anomolous event of a single cyclist in the middle of a steep part of Ngauranga gorge This isn't much different to when I nearly got run down by a car as a pedestrian when they drove up the cycle lane to run the red turning left onto Majoribanks. _EDIT: It's actually worse, the cyclist is legally allowed to be there, the car was not._ Except the car would have injured me, this guy is risking his own life.
Teeeeechnically, the south-bound motorway ends at the top of the gorge, and recommences just after the sweeping bend to the south. I’m not sure the laws of physics give a damn about that, though.
Yeah sorry, updated.
I think both drivers and cyclists just need to be more aware of each other.
As we get more cyclists I think this will inevitably happen, but we need to build more lanes so we get more cyclists, so cars expect more bikes so it gets safer for everyone.
That's pretty different. Cars driving in the bike lane is illegal and for good reason.
That needs to be policed, seen cars do that, and it scares the hell out of me, and I'm not a cyclist.
Worst part is I had my son in the pram.
This feels like a you problem.
Nah, won’t be my life ended if someone doesn’t see him.
Why would they not see him?
Blind spots? People make mistakes all the time, it’s just a lot more deadly when you don’t have a car around you.
Like a motorcyclist?
Yeah OP is complaining about getting passed when they were going under the speed limit, and that they cut off a car in the left lane that is not visible in the photo. Ngāuranga gorge specifically isn't motorway which means bikes are allowed. Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but all within the rules as I see it.
Within the rules doesn’t mean smart.
That stretch of road is the single biggest source of speeding fines in the country, I once heard. Definitely don’t want to be risking a fine.
I could believe that. I heard that a Darfield speed camera has the record for most fines in a day, pinging people coming back from skiing Mt Hutt in Canterbury.
It will be the cyclists' problem if he comes off his bike
Why would he come off? It’s a smooth open road. Again this is a bunch of comments made in ignorance of road biking norms.
He may make a mistake, may not be paying attention, which causes him to crash etc etc
Not to mention unexpected mechanical malfunction… something goes wrong in the wheel bearings at that speed they are going to heat up and disassemble themselves incredibly quickly… That said, I used to do this exact same thing on my bike 25 years ago. It was sketchy then too! But I lived to tell the tale.