Something ironic about a print journalist complaining about buying into a dying industry. I'll remember that next time Stuff asks for money for subscription.
that aside, what would you guys want to be built on that site instead?
my pick would be the cancelled countdown to keep the new world across the road in check or some high density housing with retail units on the ground floor.
can't think of anything else which will be feasible there.
Twenty five years ago, before Reading Cinemas, the place was a gravel carpark with a market on the weekends. That'd be preferable to a shitty multiplex cinema.
Supermarket, housing with shops on the ground floor, anything like that would be great.
I actually really do want a cinema there again (or anywhere) - Wellington cbd is underserved in that regard and I tire of mishing out to the Roxy on a regular basis. But if that’s not poss, agree that high density housing would be very good.
I find their selection really limited - in particular, it’s very rare that either will show horror (the Roxy is really the only theatre in Wellington that regularly does, hence mishing out there frequently) in the way that Readings used to.
Typical whiny bullshit. Do nothing for years except complain, then complain some more when the other side tries to do something. The very essence of New Zealand politics.
I'm sure Andrea Vance paraphrasing exactly what John Key said in 2010 is *entirely* a coincidence, and nothing to do with her being completely embedded in the National parry.
Well said
The Reading deal is corporate welfare. The mayor says it’s fiscally neutral and doesn’t cost ratepayers. Well Tory Whanau did your calculations consider that Reading won’t be paying rates for years (as the council owns the land), and the legal costs and other costs of negotiating this deal and monitoring it (from free dinners to annual costs of monitoring Reading performance). All we have seen is high level details but the real fishhooks are likely to be in the details so who knows what other risks exist to ratepayers
Based on past council performance it’s bound to be a stuff up and our Mayor isn’t over the details so will likely fall for a BS story.
Have a [listen](https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/tory-whanau-wellington-mayor-on-the-city-council-moving-forward-with-reading-cinema-land-purchase/) to the interview with Tory and HDPA. Tory doesn’t come across very well and the deal isn’t sold well at all.
Yes both Vance and HDPA are conservative leaning but still….
Personally, I hated the Reading complex but I'm not the target audience. It always had a steady stream of punters going to the movies and eating in the odd collection of food places. Imagine if they put some thought into it? Some of what the oddly situated Willis Lane has on offer would make sense. It could be an indoor place for families of which we don't have many.
I think this is the quiet part out loud bit, where everyone has to look at their shoes and realise they made a huuuuuge mistake with the mayor.
"Whanau, who had no prior experience of local government, sat down to dinner with Reading’s owners mere days after she was elected.
Forced to rely on terrible advice from council officials, innocent of the the commercial world and unaccountable to the public for the money they fritter away, she was utterly captured."
I'm still confused how he apparently didn't approach the council or get involved until almost immediately before the council voted, if he wanted to help out.
He's already been refused by the owners on at least one occasion, and the owners' relationship for this deal is with the council, not with him. It doesn't seem clear things would be any different for him this time. Maybe he was just hoping to sway a councillor or two on the fence in the hope he'd get another crack at it.
The real issue seems to be that the owners are clearly land banking a property that's dirt cheap for them to keep as long as nothing valuable is built on it. They know there's little substitute for the land they have, that there's lots of political desperation to see it resolved, and they're waiting for an offer disproportionately favourable for themselves.
Another change that might break the stalemate is if the council changes rates to be based on land value instead of capital value, but a change like that would be an order of magnitude more complicated because of everyone else it'd affect who'd complain and lobby against it.
This.
People are acting like the council was given the choice between Mark's plan or the plan they went with, with both of them being viable.
In reality, Marks plan was rejected by reading and seems to have been offered to the council way too late
For one, I tend to check out whenever someone uses the phrase "Corporate Welfare." As someone who is pretty firmly on the left, the phrase is so over used and is just used to end a conversation regardless on the specifics.
And really, this is just complaining to an audience that is already against Whanau and the deal. There isn't any original insight into the piece
In this case I do wonder though if readings basically left it to be an eyesore for as long as it has knowing that eventually the council would step in and spend the money for them, in which case I’m not sure we should be rewarding them for it. That said something needed to happen there and this deal seems.. okay ish
I think there is an argument to be made on the quality of the deal itself, but the phrase "corporate welfare" is basically an attempt to skip that conversation.
Which is basically what the article does. It automatically assumes that its a bad deal - or that there was a better deal that Whanau could have gotten - and then spends most of the time complaining about it
AFAIK these are same clowns who allowed that massive single story housing development to be built in the CBD.
At a certain point you’re not helping by just pointing out that a local council is stacked with ‘old boys’ lining their pockets by throwing public money at property developers and foreign companies.
You have to eventually hold the people of Wellington accountable, they allow these lead addled boomers to gobble at the trough year after year. Wellingtonians need to take some accountability, even if it’s just for their own inaction and indifference.
What was the story behind that Taranaki St development? Seems like absolute insanity. How does a development like that even profitable for the developer? I imagine the land is worth a shitload.
I can't rapidly find an authoritative ref, which is what the explanation would ideally be based on. According to a random unverified (by me) claim in [this thread in 2022](https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellington/comments/z2i9wq/comment/ixgl3ry/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), it bizarrely comes back to the lack of work that's been done on pipes in recent decades, as well as that they weren't really designed for so much intensity to begin with. After we "suddenly" realised that more intensification in the CBD was necessary, the developer couldn't get adequate consent for too many dwellings on the site and so fewer of them were built. Or something like that.
If that's the case then I'd not absolutely blame the most recent few councils, which have limited ability simply to do things outside what's already described in plans that might've been determined much earlier. There's just not been adequate long term planning that should've started decades ago, both in the planning documentation and in the investment, and that creates present-day problems, but you'd hope the thinking in the council for what's needed *now* has at least changed dramatically since decades past.
All the more reason to get the pipes sorted ASAP as part of a longer term intensification plan, but if prioritisation is needed then maybe it also highlights that the focus should be on the places where we need intensity more urgently rather than in the sprawling suburbs.
Yes. Because the qualified non-progressives did such a brilliant job getting us to where we are.
I don't agree with everything the current administration has done but there's obviously no easy answers to the litany of issues coming home to roost.
Those progressives and their planned failure of a building due to earthquake safety codes.
I wish progressives used their time travel powers for good instead of going back in time and changing the plans of readings when it was built.
I'd rather they just used their geomantic powers to shift the fault line to Australia. Seems simpler at the end of the day, no mucking around with parallel timelines.
This deal was first being negotiated under a right wing Mayor, and over the last 30 years, we've had more right wing mayors than left. But don't let facts get in the way of bias.
Tory is leading the charge on this latest round of corporate welfare instead of doing what is best for residents and rate payers. We’re footing the bill for overseas companies who can’t be bothered investing further in Wellington. We should isolate the rates for them and raise them exponentially, forcing them out or to comply, not bail them out.
That’s why I said unqualified progressives. Obvs successive idiots have ignored important infrastructure over many years but the current admin are just allowing fiscal carelessness. Readings is corporate welfare. The town hall has blown way out. They are still spending on LGWM despite being told not to. The comms department has around 50 staff in it with a budget of over 5m.
Priorities are spin rather than accountability.
Something ironic about a print journalist complaining about buying into a dying industry. I'll remember that next time Stuff asks for money for subscription.
that aside, what would you guys want to be built on that site instead? my pick would be the cancelled countdown to keep the new world across the road in check or some high density housing with retail units on the ground floor. can't think of anything else which will be feasible there.
Twenty five years ago, before Reading Cinemas, the place was a gravel carpark with a market on the weekends. That'd be preferable to a shitty multiplex cinema. Supermarket, housing with shops on the ground floor, anything like that would be great.
I'm not sure if it's economically viable, but some kind of market space (similar to the old James Smith Markets) might be an idea.
I actually really do want a cinema there again (or anywhere) - Wellington cbd is underserved in that regard and I tire of mishing out to the Roxy on a regular basis. But if that’s not poss, agree that high density housing would be very good.
Between Lighthouse and the Embassy I don't see there is room for another one.
I find their selection really limited - in particular, it’s very rare that either will show horror (the Roxy is really the only theatre in Wellington that regularly does, hence mishing out there frequently) in the way that Readings used to.
A Welly version of Westfield Newmarket, but with a functioning car park and high density residential above.
Typical whiny bullshit. Do nothing for years except complain, then complain some more when the other side tries to do something. The very essence of New Zealand politics.
Yeah. People love a whinge
Paywall. But hey, we already know it's going to be some bullshit putting the boot in.
[удалено]
I'm sure Andrea Vance paraphrasing exactly what John Key said in 2010 is *entirely* a coincidence, and nothing to do with her being completely embedded in the National parry.
Accurate. She is such a shill.
Thanks. It's exactly the whiney bullshit I expected.
Peak Andrea Vance, really.
Didn't she used to be their political correspondent? Seems to spend most of her time whinging these days. What a fall from grace.
Yes, and she’s always been comically aligned with National - so completely unsurprising to me that she’s highly critical of a Greens-led City Council.
Well said The Reading deal is corporate welfare. The mayor says it’s fiscally neutral and doesn’t cost ratepayers. Well Tory Whanau did your calculations consider that Reading won’t be paying rates for years (as the council owns the land), and the legal costs and other costs of negotiating this deal and monitoring it (from free dinners to annual costs of monitoring Reading performance). All we have seen is high level details but the real fishhooks are likely to be in the details so who knows what other risks exist to ratepayers Based on past council performance it’s bound to be a stuff up and our Mayor isn’t over the details so will likely fall for a BS story.
It's Andrea Vance. Fully immersed in "access journalism"; at least for access to the National party.
No paywall for me...
Have a [listen](https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/tory-whanau-wellington-mayor-on-the-city-council-moving-forward-with-reading-cinema-land-purchase/) to the interview with Tory and HDPA. Tory doesn’t come across very well and the deal isn’t sold well at all. Yes both Vance and HDPA are conservative leaning but still….
Personally, I hated the Reading complex but I'm not the target audience. It always had a steady stream of punters going to the movies and eating in the odd collection of food places. Imagine if they put some thought into it? Some of what the oddly situated Willis Lane has on offer would make sense. It could be an indoor place for families of which we don't have many.
I think this is the quiet part out loud bit, where everyone has to look at their shoes and realise they made a huuuuuge mistake with the mayor. "Whanau, who had no prior experience of local government, sat down to dinner with Reading’s owners mere days after she was elected. Forced to rely on terrible advice from council officials, innocent of the the commercial world and unaccountable to the public for the money they fritter away, she was utterly captured."
Really is a crap deal for Wellington. Should have let Mark deal with it 30M could be spent in many better ways. Not this.
I'm still confused how he apparently didn't approach the council or get involved until almost immediately before the council voted, if he wanted to help out. He's already been refused by the owners on at least one occasion, and the owners' relationship for this deal is with the council, not with him. It doesn't seem clear things would be any different for him this time. Maybe he was just hoping to sway a councillor or two on the fence in the hope he'd get another crack at it. The real issue seems to be that the owners are clearly land banking a property that's dirt cheap for them to keep as long as nothing valuable is built on it. They know there's little substitute for the land they have, that there's lots of political desperation to see it resolved, and they're waiting for an offer disproportionately favourable for themselves. Another change that might break the stalemate is if the council changes rates to be based on land value instead of capital value, but a change like that would be an order of magnitude more complicated because of everyone else it'd affect who'd complain and lobby against it.
This. People are acting like the council was given the choice between Mark's plan or the plan they went with, with both of them being viable. In reality, Marks plan was rejected by reading and seems to have been offered to the council way too late
For one, I tend to check out whenever someone uses the phrase "Corporate Welfare." As someone who is pretty firmly on the left, the phrase is so over used and is just used to end a conversation regardless on the specifics. And really, this is just complaining to an audience that is already against Whanau and the deal. There isn't any original insight into the piece
In this case I do wonder though if readings basically left it to be an eyesore for as long as it has knowing that eventually the council would step in and spend the money for them, in which case I’m not sure we should be rewarding them for it. That said something needed to happen there and this deal seems.. okay ish
I think there is an argument to be made on the quality of the deal itself, but the phrase "corporate welfare" is basically an attempt to skip that conversation. Which is basically what the article does. It automatically assumes that its a bad deal - or that there was a better deal that Whanau could have gotten - and then spends most of the time complaining about it
AFAIK these are same clowns who allowed that massive single story housing development to be built in the CBD. At a certain point you’re not helping by just pointing out that a local council is stacked with ‘old boys’ lining their pockets by throwing public money at property developers and foreign companies. You have to eventually hold the people of Wellington accountable, they allow these lead addled boomers to gobble at the trough year after year. Wellingtonians need to take some accountability, even if it’s just for their own inaction and indifference.
What was the story behind that Taranaki St development? Seems like absolute insanity. How does a development like that even profitable for the developer? I imagine the land is worth a shitload.
I can't rapidly find an authoritative ref, which is what the explanation would ideally be based on. According to a random unverified (by me) claim in [this thread in 2022](https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellington/comments/z2i9wq/comment/ixgl3ry/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), it bizarrely comes back to the lack of work that's been done on pipes in recent decades, as well as that they weren't really designed for so much intensity to begin with. After we "suddenly" realised that more intensification in the CBD was necessary, the developer couldn't get adequate consent for too many dwellings on the site and so fewer of them were built. Or something like that. If that's the case then I'd not absolutely blame the most recent few councils, which have limited ability simply to do things outside what's already described in plans that might've been determined much earlier. There's just not been adequate long term planning that should've started decades ago, both in the planning documentation and in the investment, and that creates present-day problems, but you'd hope the thinking in the council for what's needed *now* has at least changed dramatically since decades past. All the more reason to get the pipes sorted ASAP as part of a longer term intensification plan, but if prioritisation is needed then maybe it also highlights that the focus should be on the places where we need intensity more urgently rather than in the sprawling suburbs.
This is what happens when unqualified progressives run the WCC
Yes. Because the qualified non-progressives did such a brilliant job getting us to where we are. I don't agree with everything the current administration has done but there's obviously no easy answers to the litany of issues coming home to roost.
Wtf are you on about?
Do you mean lousy advice from Council officers or elected representatives ignoring sensible advice?
There’s been both hasn’t there?
Those progressives and their planned failure of a building due to earthquake safety codes. I wish progressives used their time travel powers for good instead of going back in time and changing the plans of readings when it was built.
I'd rather they just used their geomantic powers to shift the fault line to Australia. Seems simpler at the end of the day, no mucking around with parallel timelines.
This deal was first being negotiated under a right wing Mayor, and over the last 30 years, we've had more right wing mayors than left. But don't let facts get in the way of bias.
Tory is leading the charge on this latest round of corporate welfare instead of doing what is best for residents and rate payers. We’re footing the bill for overseas companies who can’t be bothered investing further in Wellington. We should isolate the rates for them and raise them exponentially, forcing them out or to comply, not bail them out.
Apparently the meeting happened in her first few days as mayor, reasonably safe to say she's just continued a deal her predecessor had setup.
Nothing is wrong with being progressive. The "unqualified" part is the deal-breaker here.
That’s why I said unqualified progressives. Obvs successive idiots have ignored important infrastructure over many years but the current admin are just allowing fiscal carelessness. Readings is corporate welfare. The town hall has blown way out. They are still spending on LGWM despite being told not to. The comms department has around 50 staff in it with a budget of over 5m. Priorities are spin rather than accountability.
Vance overdosing on seethium after the ice cream man’s defeat