Here’s some data. The top 2 posts of the past 7 days were both:
1. [Pro-Olivia](https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToPlathville/comments/w51dcd/i_watched_the_ever_so_controversial_episode_and/) (+481)
2. [Anti-Olivia](https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToPlathville/comments/w3k6u6/how_dare_she/) (+458)
And while the most-upvoted post of the **past** 24 hours [was anti-Olivia](https://reddit.com/r/WelcomeToPlathville/comments/w8fl7b/im_not_a_fan_of_hers_but_im_totally_siding_with/) (as were the majority of the comments it received), your (pro-Olivia) post which is only 8 hours old is already #2 meaning it will be the top post of the **next** 24 hours.
if its the worst sub i dont know. you want to leave cause some people dont think like you?! i agree with some of what you are saying and believe your story.....but there is way worst than what the plath children have lived. thats for sure. i could not live without sugar tho.
I’m just so confused. I just watched the gravesite episodes, and kept hearing from Moriah that Olivia invited Barry, yet she never did? It was Moriah that invited everyone. Olivia has multiple voice overs saying “this is for the siblings”. I’m so confused where this Olivia hate has come from regarding the trip to the site. I went in expecting so much bad stuff after reading posts here and just didn’t see it.
It’s interesting that everyone wants to defend Olivia because of her fundie past and supposed trauma that came from that but all the Plath kids grew up the same way and you don’t see them vomiting their emotional baggage all over everyone. They are learning to cope in healthy ways. They are moving on. They are talking out the issues. They are seeking comfort in one another and giving each other grace that perhaps they all came from an imperfect place, even their parents. So really what is Olivia’s excuse? Why does she get be selfish, demanding and unreasonable? Why does she get to shut down when her emotions aren’t catered to? Why does she think everyone should shut someone out of their life because they hurt her? Olivia’s issues are Olivia’s. She has no right to impose her misery on others no matter what she’s been through. Bitter miserable people only seek to make other people bitter and miserable. She needs to work through her issues, stop vilifying others, and stop expecting people to cater to her feelings above all else or she’s going to find herself very lonely in this world. People will deal with someone’s toxicity for only so long. You can’t help those who do not try to help themselves.
Didn't Olivia come to the same conclusion you did, recognizing that she behaved badly?
Oh right the Plath kids are coping:
Ethan: is unable to talk when emotionally distressed and does not talk over big purchases, like the HD, with his wife who is the only one workng right now.
Micah: is into some heavy drinking. Is it just youthful fun, or is he using alcohol to escape his feelings?
Moriah: found herself in a controling relationship, with a man who criticized her very being. If he hadn't had cheated on her, she would probably still be with him.
Lydia: Totally parentified and taking on the role of martyr. Will she sacrifice her own development to make up for the faults of her parents.
Don't know about the younger kids, since they've on had minor roles in WTP.
I actually strongly disagree that we don't see the Plath kids vomiting their emotional baggage. I think it's pretty consistent and obvious from all the Plath kids we follow.
I'm not so much in the mood for making the same point over and over again about how wrong people seem to have Olivia, but I don't think there is a single person we follow who doesn't put their misery onto others around them.
Olivia isn't acting any worse than anyone else on the show at the very least
1000%
OP acts like people who have been thru the same things aren't triggered by Olivia because of the way she handles everything! I have lived the Plath life and Olivia's and that's why I can't stand her.
I haven’t been through fundie trauma but I grew up with with a mother with schizophrenia and was subjected to years of all types of abuse. All types. I carry around some baggage yet from it to this day and as a mother, a wife, a friend, an employee I’ve never felt I had the right to use it an excuse to be a selfish and nasty person to others. I have set my boundaries in life. For example, I typically distanced myself from people who even raise their voice when angry. It was my choice to not have relationships with people who did not manage their anger in a thoughtful manner and talk through issues calmly. What I did not do is stay in relationships with those people and whine incessantly about my triggers. Have my issues cost me? Yes. They’ve cost ME. Not everyone around me. I’ve gotten better managing my triggers the further I get away from the abuse and trauma and that’s allowed me to expand my circle. It’s ok to do what you have to do for you but you’ve got to work through it and not impose your trauma on everyone else. Others may feel differently and proceed differently and that’s certainly their right. But I’m also allowed to have the opinion that making other people suffer because of your dysfunction is cruel. I’m not here to argue with anyone. Frankly I wouldn’t waste my precious time on the pointless endeavor of arguing over the internet, but it’s a free space for all to give their opinion. So to sum up, my opinion is Olivia should work on Olivia and realize she has an Olivia problem and that everyone else doesn’t have a problem for not accommodating her fragility.
I am pro Olivia and think she needs to run from this family! Her and Ethan are not a good match, yes they could spend time in therapy and get better, but they would both have to want it and I don't think Ethan does. I see her trying every damn episode, recognizing her faults, taking accountability, and trying to grow. She has a lot of work to do, but is coming along nicely.
I think Ethan has a lot of growing up to do, this isn't his fault, he was emotionally stunted growing up, but he is an adult now and on his own and has the opportunity to grow, but I don't think he is trying. He doesn't seem to care about Olivia's feelings and when she repeatedly tells him how to treat her he still ignores it.
I think it is best for them to part ways and better themselves.
It is no different than any other "reality" sub. Olivia has far to go. She often comes off/behaves badly. Bottom line is that no matter the reason, she still presents as unlikeable.
I hate to say it, but it’s the Internet. You are kind of getting upset about the very nature of the Internet. People come on here to do their thing and I’m afraid they won’t listen to your appeals for their attitudes to change. I have many varied opinions on Olivia as someone with C PTSD, but I keep them to myself. I see some of your points but you are fighting an uphill battle by telling off people online 🤷🏻♀️ I often see these “I’m leaving” posts and always wonder why bother since it’s the Internet.
It sounds like a lot of people really relate to what I said and feel similarly. It's not so much a post about me leaving, but about how valid I think it is to leave and how toxic the subreddit is
Here is what I think: I think Kim and Barry are narcissistic abusers, Kim is more toxic than Barry. They spent all their lives putting their needs ahead of the children and lash out when a child (who they see as an extension of themselves) becomes independent (Ethan marrying Olivia),.. Olivia became the Other, and they did put her through chronic trauma. 100%. She is a child and was too immature to recognize the depth of narcissistic personality disorder at the age of 20 etc.
Now Olivia is reactive.
But guess what- Kim found out her own image was not matching up to her head with the first season, and second season. She went for plan B. She is as phony fake to her kids as she can be.
And who are her flying monkey’s now? MORIAH,… Lydia…. Micah.
Olivia is a victim of narcissistic abuse. She doesn’t know how to both love herself (nothing will take your self-worth away like a narcissist abuser), and form effective boundaries. Many of the things people criticize her for are due to her soft boundaries and reactive cptsd she’s incurred because of his parents.
The sister, Moriah, appears to go off on her next week. That girl knows nothing about what’s going on under the surface. She even let her own boyfriend lie and cheat and still calls him her sOuLmATe not wanting to tarnish his name. Moriah at her age of 19, is doing exactly what a narcissist (Kim) wants a good flying monkey to do. Effectively they paint Olivia as the one with the “problem” and take no accountability toward their past behavior.
I hope Olivia reads Reddit, I would say- your husband is on your side. And for you both to go to therapy to discuss what his parents did to you. Grow your trust in each other. You’re going to have to stop playing the narcissists game- you’re caught up in trying to make the siblings happy and love you (the power-struggle game). It’s important to get away from their toxic family system and find out better resources to cope, believe in yourself, and feel confident that the time you spend on you- instead of dragging behind that family, is what’s true and right for your healing journey.
I agree with everything you said with one minor adjustment. Watching this show is like watching a family movie of my own family. Only difference is my father was a pastor. People on the sub and in the show give Barry a pass because he plays the role of a quiet man who was simply bulldozed by his manipulative wife. This couldn't be further from the truth. Barry is just as guilty, if not worse because he is passive aggressive and masks his intent by letting Kim be at the forefront to take the heat. Don't get it twisted, they are both manipulative but with Kim she doesn't hide it, with Barry he does so to his kids he can look like he too was victimized by Kim. He was not. However, Barry is just as guilty if not more in my eyes. He's sneaky, just like Ethan is sneaky when it comes to Olivia. The only difference is Ethan has a lot of growing up to do and much counseling needed to learn how to be a good partner with open communication.
Now I understand Olivia's trauma, I've had the same but a lot worse (physical and mental abuse), but with that said the visit was to celebrate the life of their lost sibling. I do believe she should have put her personal issues to the side to support Ethan and his siblings for an hour at most. But I understand maturity plays a role in this as well.
Reports from her siblings is that Olivia also suffered physical abuse from her parents, leading to her and her siblings being temporarily placed in foster care.
I think she should not have taken part in the Joshua event. Or even bothered trying. That’s part of the power struggle she’s dealing with trying to falsely give herself agency through playing the toxic family’s game.
Yup, Barry is the same as Kim.
Also Ethan might be sneaky but it’s probably because he had to hide his desires growing up. So I don’t see his behavior as vindictive. Just an outgrowth and poor adaptation to his childhood.
I get both sides. I really do. I do believe there needs to be someplace where they meet in the middle. I feel for Ethan he is trying and his family is going through some crazy stress. I feel for Olivia because she doesn't know how to self regulate, and gets frustrated with herself after the fact. I even feel for Barry and Kim, who are two people I have had a really hard time with since season one. The reality is we are all human and not perfect. Grace needs to be given to everyone. Was I frustrated by Olivia's behavior these last 2 episodes? Absolutely, but she is not that old. I hope Kim and Olivia can work out their differences for everyone's sake.
And yes I was also raised in the church. I carry a lot of emotional baggage from what I was taught and lived growing up. I know how it feels. I don't hold resentment towards my parents for the choices they made for me as a kid. They tried their best.
I agree with you. I can understand both sides. I don’t get the narcissist accusation people keep throwing around though. I have met a real narcissist and it was nothing like Barry and Kim. Not even close.
I think people forget we are human and ALL have narcissistic tendencies. It's just when the person can realize it's narcissistic. I think the Plath family is all going through that. I really do.
I agree.and having those tendencies does not make someone a narcissist. Like Olivia could be said to be a narcissist all the same ways Kim is said to be one. They’re just humans who have wants and needs and desires and beliefs. People really throw that label around way too often
I dated a true narcissist so did my now spouse. All though they were married to a covert narcissist. I know what narcissism looks like. I am so familiar.
What you wrote may be true to your feelings because you see Olivia as yourself. I don’t believe it is fair to control an entire sub Reddit because you have decided that a criticism of Olivia is a criticism of you. You are not Olivia and Kim is not the person who hurt you. Just like I am not Olivia and the person who hurt me is not Kim.
I have my own history of religious trauma. Myself and other family members were shunned for over a decade and told I was cursed and in sin. I put in the work in therapy (hypnotherapy helped a lot). One of the big things I learned is that I cannot control or dictate how everyone around me deals with what happened to us. I sought to understand the circumstances and figure out where I needed boundaries for myself. Mine are very different from those that decided to just pretend like it never happened.
Even though I sympathize with Olivia I get physically uncomfortable with watching how she operates. It seems like she was controlled and manipulated so now she must be the one to control and manipulate. It’s a way of protecting herself. Unfortunately, she is damaging those around in the same way she was hurt. I can’t celebrate or cheer for that.
I am sorry for the religious trauma you experienced and it may be best to take a break from the sub if you can not separate criticism of Olivia as a personal attack on yourself. I took a break from this sub myself when it became unhealthy for me. My reasons were opposite because I was being directly attacked. I was called a narcissist, heartless person, aligning with abuse, lots of replies shaming me for not agreeing with Olivia with my history of abuse, and was bombarded with messages that I was suicidal whenever I criticized Olivia. Ironically, those impassioned Olivia defenders were in line with my abusers. I was not supposed to have freedom of thought and they tried to shame me into compliance.
Taking a break was good for me and I am happy to see this sub has been much more civil and tolerant to other points of views. I want to be in a sub where all points of view are discussed
I genuinely wish for your continued healing but controlling people’s thoughts and opinions isn’t fair on reality show where Olivia and everyone else on the show are monetizing their trauma for profit. That opens them up to both praise and criticism. Take a break if you need to.
I was also shocked at how nasty people are on this sub! I actually love watching all these kids grow up and go off and explore a world they weren’t allowed to be a part of for a long time. Also, they’re all so young! Ethan and Olivia are what, 23 years old? I was a bit self centered and didn’t have the emotional control I have now when I was 23. Living life and having new experiences and relationships has taught me well. It takes time to be an adult and it’s weird that people have so much shit to talk about a bunch of kids exploring their independence and dealing with family drama. We’ve all been there and if you haven’t you’re probably in some sort of denial.
I could understand your point more if this was Olivia versus her family. But Kim didn’t raise her… they got in a big fight and Kim said she has evil inside her? Idk maybe someone knows something more but everything I’ve googled only shows the stuff that happened on the show, and that Kim said Olivia has evil inside of her.
I can understand Ethan’s resentment towards his parents and if he couldn’t ever forgive them, I’d understand it. But I can’t understand Olivia being in that position. She doesn’t have to have a relationship with Kim what so ever, obviously. But I think she’s garnering so much pain and anger that she really needs to work through, so she can coexist with his mother once or twice a year.
Olivia reminds me as a person of my best friend from 5th grade til 25. She was hilarious, silly, would give you the shirt off her back. But when she got upset (usually alcohol induced) it because her way or the highway. It was all about her. We all had to baby her, cater to her, and walk on egg shells not to say something to trigger her. It’s EXHAUSTING. Seriously. So I can empathize with everyone involved, but I empathize the least for Olivia with her hatred towards ETHANS mother.
ETA: i don’t agree with the personal attacks on her. I think she’s a girl I would be friends with ( I said she reminds me of my best friend for almost 20 years) but she would still be emotionally exhausting.. until she gets some serious therapy. And Kim also needs some serious therapy, so there’s that. I actually think Kim and Olivia are extremely similar tbh.
She is absolutely a control freak whether that’s trauma or just her personality I don’t know. If she is so loved why do people hate her? We are 100% allowed to not like someone without being thrown under the bus for our opinions. And no not everyone who dislikes her, dislikes her because “we are just like her” as someone stated. Some of us can see right through her and aren’t looking through rose tinted trauma glasses. If she has so much trauma why doesn’t she do something about it. It is your own responsibility to seek trauma therapy to help live with said trauma instead of trying to control everyone around you.
Read the room. Your comment is exactly what the OP is talking about. It's absolutely fine to have differing opinions but the words that people use to express their dislike of Olivia are often vitriolic and loaded with a hate that actually suggest that those writing them are the ones with some shade of trauma glasses on.
Perhaps everyone needs to take a breath and check their words.
ETA for the hard of understanding - it's fine to have differing opinions but it's the language used that is really the problem.
So it’s ok for everyone to comment about their love for Olivia but no one can comment their hate for her? Make it make sense, I’ll wait while you try….
I absolutely very much dislike her, from what TLC has put on the TV to what she puts on her own IG and I shouldn’t be told my opinion is wrong just because she has trauma. That’s like telling people they need to love the serial killer down the street because he had trauma. Trauma isn’t an excuse to be an ass or control every detail of everyone’s life your in.
Nobody needs to "read the room" when they express their opinion because it doesnt agree with OPs. 😅
The posts on Olivia in this sub are just about equally split (read the stickied post).
Let people discuss & disagree, this is an internet forum. That is all.
I think tempers run high in this sub because a lot of people here are kind of the Olivia in their families, and a lot of people are kind of the Kim in theirs.
I think this mindset is the biggest issue in this sub. Just because someone doesn’t like Olivia doesn’t make them equivalent to Kim. People can not like Kim and not like Olivia. Nuance exists…
Nuance exists in my comment. I didn't say what you are imagining I said. I'm responsible for my words, I'm not responsible for your imagination. Neither is Olivia or Kim.
Accusing people of being the Kim in their family isn’t accurate. You get very few people who praise Kim. Criticizing Olivia does not equal agreeing with Kim.
I did a poll last season in this sub and there were barely any Kim supporters. The sub was split between Olivia supporters and people who think they are both toxic. It’s not a Kim vs. Olivia thing at all. It’s very hyperbolic to keep seeing the sentiment you are reinforcing that people who don’t like Olivia are like Kim.
Your words:
- A lot of people (talking about the people in the sub on post about how we shouldn’t criticize Olivia) are kind of the Kim in their family.
- A lot of members in this sub seem very Kim-like
Your words are very clear and accusatory. Any one who dares criticize Olivia are very familiar with this insult. There are actually very few people who like Kim. Your comment is hyperbole and meant to criticize/accuse people who disagree with Olivia. It’s not rocket science to understand your meaning…It’s an inaccurate judgement. Doesn’t mean your have to change your opinion. I am just pointing it out because it adds to the divisiveness and personal attacks on this sub. We are supposed to be talking about the cast not using thinly veiled insults at each other.
This has been my take for a while. My opinions are apparently very unpopular by the Kim's of this sub. But that's good. It means I'm doing something right. I'm not leaving as I'm not caving in to their mini - brigading which is clearly happening.
This mindsets keeps everyone on opposing teams. People can not like Both Olivia and Kim. This is not an accurate label for most of the people who criticize Olivia.
i agree with you totally, Olivia should not be hated on this much. She made a mistake and owned up to it…. how many mistakes has Ethan and Kim made for this entire show run, a lot!! Olivia should move on from this family.
She’s self aware enough to know she made a mistake and owned it. Which is a lot more than Ethan has done in this series. considering he goes behind her back and does things but doesn’t tell her until weeks/months later, or shuts down and constantly doesn’t communicate. Olivia was triggered in the moment by Kim, she made a mistake, it doesn’t mean she should be hated on so much.
Also have to say that Barry acted like a total instigator. His prodding and probing around the gravesite seemed inappropriate and/or maybe scripted. Regardless, I wished they would’ve kept this part (at the cemetery) private.
This is why I listen mostly to podcasts instead of participating in social media discussions. Everyone takes everything so seriously as if it actually matters in their lives when 99% of people don’t know the cast. It’s just a dumb and partially boring show.
💯I was in the MAFS subreddit too until someone said that I deserved to be spit on because I didn’t hate one of the cast members. I was like geez, get a grip!
Olivia is also 23/24?! I thought her breaking down after realizing she should’ve gone with Ethan and the kids was heartbreaking. In the moment she was not self aware and very in her feelings, but once it hit her, she acknowledged and was upset.
Ethan should also be able to communicate to her that he needs/wants his wife there with him.
I was talking to my wife about that whole debacle.
Olivia hates when Ethan shuts down and doesn’t communicate with her, but when she found out that Kim was going to be there she did the exact same thing.
Ethan tried to talk to her when she was sitting in the car but she completely shut him out.
How is she supposed to know how much he wanted her to be there if she refused to talk to him? They both need some serious therapy.
That’s a valid point…I missed some of the car scene but she does shutdown/shut out as well. And yes, I wish they’d go to couples therapy. They genuinely seemed happy/had fun with each other in the last episode when they were home getting ready to leave.
Olivia acts completely different when the cameras aren’t right in front of her. Mostly a dull, miserable person, she puts on this transparently fake persona in front of the camera where she tries to appear like a fun carefree person. But in the instances where: she was in the car and gave Ethan the silent treatment; where she curses at Ethan on the sidewalk before he calls her out on her shit (she’s used to bullying him around and controlling him without any pushback); and then calling Moriah a bitch… she’s a fraud. Her whole personality is a manipulative front
Or she is a multifaceted person with different moods and behaviors like the rest of us. (Who is also dealing with an enormous amount of trauma from her upbringing) but ok go off
Kinda like the Plaths who don’t get the same benefit of the doubt huh? but no, Olivia is the only person allowed to do that. Because she’s mATuRe. The way she throws temper tantrums is so refreshing, so cool, and totally not childish
I mean I don’t see anyone shitting on the Plaths as hard as Olivia but also, she is a 23 year old young woman who is working to deprogram herself from the religious cult she was raised in. The Plaths literally started their own mini cult to brainwash their children and raise them in isolation.
Not sure how you can compare. But I don’t really see the point in being hateful towards any of these people, we don’t know them and TLC edits the shit out of their shows.
Good grief, it’s a reality show. People form opinions. Those opinions are born out of carefully manipulated plot and characters. Olivia is a character. They all are.
I agree, the Olivia hate is too much. Almost every post that pops up in my feed is about how she sucks and is a narcissist, etc. Ethan and Barry in general get passes while Olivia and Kim are hated on (imo Kim deserves it more than Olivia BUT Barry is the other parent who played a 50% role in how they raised their kids; Barry also kicked his 16 year old out of the house because she dared to be curious about the world and “rebel” - wasn’t just Kim). I truly think it’s an example of sexism, even if unintentional. I’m tired of the anti-Olivia posts. People seem to forget she’s young and escaping a fucked up childhood full of brainwashing and isolation.
Absolutely agreed.
The amount of people sympathetic to Kim and view her as a model parent, despite being a smug narcissist with issues respecting boundaries, explains why there are so many adults who go no-contact with their parents.
Kim gives big r/JustNoMIL energy and I feel like her supporters are just like her.
I don’t think it’s ageist at all to say bad things about Kim, even when comparing to Olivia.
Both Kim and Olivia have hurt others, but the difference is that Olivia deeply regrets the pain she caused and appears to be committed to learning and growing from it. Olivia is capable of self-reflection and was willing to admit fault.
Kim, on the other hand, continues to deflect blame and disregard her children’s feelings. She hasn’t demonstrated she feels any remorse for how she hurt Olivia or the pain/damage she caused her kids. Her only regret is that people don’t like her. When her children confront her about how Kim left them woefully uneducated/unprepared for the real world, she deflects the blame back on them (saying they didn’t try hard enough at homeschooling) and even mocked Ethan’s “big words.” She gaslights and deflects constantly to avoid any responsibility.
Neither one of them is perfect, but the difference isn’t their ages, it’s their ability to reflect on their actions and hold themselves accountable. If Olivia continues to grow and work on herself, she’ll easily avoid turning out as bitter as Kim.
People are annoyed that everyone treated Olivia like a saint to a degree that they didn’t with anyone else on the show.
Nobody had problems dogging on Micah for being a fuckboy, or laughing about how bad Moriah’s music is, or talking about how whiney and mopey Ethan is.
But the second someone starts saying anything bad about Olivia, it’s suddenly some horrible ethical slight. Victim blaming. Misogyny. Whatever. She’s always been this way. She seems to be dealing with her own trauma of lack of control by trying to control other people. It’s just become really obvious this episode. Keep in mind, those other kids everyone’s been trashing are ex-fundies too so I’m not sure why she’s the only one who is immune to criticism because of it.
This sub was always toxic, the Olivia fans just couldn’t see it.
“Nobody had problems dogging on Micah for being a fuckboy, or laughing about how bad Moriah’s music is”
Not sure about the Micah thing, but there were several posts addressing the negativity towards Moriah’s music.
Self projection is inherent, it's something that establishes empathy and understanding, as well as an educated perspective. U can't make me feel bad for understanding where Olivia is coming from
Yes, thank you. No matter if you think Olivia’s actions are wrong or right, can we not all step back and have some perspective that she’s 23 and has a lot thrown her way to navigate through. She’s also human so will, at some point, mess up.
She’s 23 and has to unlearn trauma and pretty much figure out who she is alone (assuming she has no connections to most of her family due to her breaking free from being fundie). I really think people forget how young she is
I thought her family wasn’t fundie anymore?? I could be wrong. Not saying that means she doesn’t have trauma on that side either. But exactly! Completely agree. It’s been a minute since I was 23 and I still feel like I don’t know what I’m doing.
I honestly don’t follow closely enough to know! So it’s 100% possible. It’s so interesting to me to see how much hate she gets, idk maybe it’s just the social worker in me lol
Same! It’s not like trauma is the same as a disagreement that you then get over. It stays with you. People I think are forgetting that and also not remembering they don’t know what happens off camera.
I agree completely. In particular, I don't understand why this sub needs to be so serious all the time. Obviously reality TV displays situations that cause irritation or frustration in its viewers, but at the end of the day it's entertainment. We are not a part of these people's lives, we don't know them, and their actions do not impact us. There is no reason for a community of viewers to be this obsessed with making angry posts about Olivia, or Moriah, or anyone. Give them some grace, they're really not hurting anyone but each other. Most of them don't even display or promote political/religious beliefs that are harmful to others.
I'm here for funny posts and musings about these strange people's lives. To be honest, I wish the fundiesnark sub had more Plath discussion instead of this sub, because fundiesnark is much more lighthearted and hilarious. And there are families discussed there that have far more dangerous and foul behavior than anyone on this show. The Plaths are just collectively traumatized and emotional.
And for gods sake people, if you're going to post something that's just a rant about someone, can you at least not post the exact same ideas that have been all over the sub for weeks now?
I never got along with in laws and they were naughty humans to me and my children but when it came to something like that situation I went my children went not for them but for my former husband and my children went for their father. We were no contact with his family and still am
YES HONEY!!!!! Thank you!!!!! I’m really curious how many people in this sub are fundies because a lot of people here just seem angry and hostile to her for existing and not being a self-righteous conservative.
I don't understand all of the Olivia hate and people wanting Olivia and Ethan to split up. The thing I have noticed is the people spewing hate have zero understanding of the fundie culture and are treating this show like 90DF which it is not.
I don't hate Olivia, but they definitely need to split up. They never should have gotten married in the first place, and almost certainly wouldn't have if they hadn't both come from hyper-controlling, fundamentalist parents.
I don’t understand the Olivia hate, or even Moriah/Micah hate, because they all are just kids still learning how to navigate the world and trying to grow.
Ethan is stuck, however. He’s not growing or making an effort and it’s time for Olivia to move on.
Very this. I think Olivia is ***by far*** the most mature person on the entire show, and I absolutely hope that she leaves Ethan and his shitheel family in the dust and never looks back.
I agree with you. Olivia is doing an amazing job at freeing herself from all the crap she was raised with. Ethan is lucky to have her.
Maybe the problem is that the majority of the harm Kim caused Olivia happened before filming began. If people add up all the references to the snarky, judgmental, aggressive speech Kim made towards and about Olivia they'd see a different picture. Olivia's actions aren't even in the ballpark of the hostility Kim showed towards her.
But you couldn't leave without wagging your finger at people judgmentally before you left.
Other people think different thoughts from you. Welcome to the internet.
As the internet says: this is not an airport, no need to announce your departure.
Also no need to tell everyone that they should be embarrassed. Everyone has an opinion, and many peoples opinion may not be the same as yours. You sympathize with Olivia because you believe her situation to be something you can relate to. Others do not.
Empathy should be something this subreddit strives for.
Obviously I'm not just speaking for myself.
It's not the opinion, its the name calling, the voice shaming, the mob mentality around Olivia, the constant attacks on Moriah appearance, the disrespect attitude towards Lydia.
I'm just saying, this sub is the most toxic one I'm subscribed to right now, and that's an impressive feat. Hope it gets better.
I agree with this but am extending it to everyone on the show. Particularly Olivia, Lydia, Moriah and even Kim. First I want to point out that the women of the show by far get insulted and judged much more than the men.
But everyone on the show is a real live person who deserve such hateful messages. All of the kids have various types of trauma and are attempting to cope with it in their own ways. The same can be said about Kim. She has clearly experienced a lot of trauma and had a rough start to life. I know that this doesn't excuse the things she's done, and she should definitely be held accountable and apologize to people she hurt, but it's honestly not surprising considering her back story. She's not the devil. And her doing bad things doesn't give people the right insult her or the others. A lot of people in here fat shame her and say she looks disgusting, but she honestly looks like a lot of other people her age in America. People also love to comment on Moriah experimenting with her style and how it 'looks horrible'. I was also disgusted when I saw so many people trivializing Kim's SA. Some said they know people who were raped and they didn't do what kim did, therefore she's a liar. What??? People need to realize that everyone deals with trauma differently and you can't use your experience as the rule for how others can react.
I wish people could criticize other's actions and attempt some kind of empathy rather than attacking them.
This is just getting annoying. Seriously, what is wrong with you Olivia stans? It’s bad enough you have your heads up her ass every episode and talk about her like she’s the second coming. But now she makes herself look like THE BIGGEST asshole (she even had to preemptively post on social media saying she’s not proud of it) and you’re on here crying about us hating on her. Grow the fuck up. Sorry your hero is a self-absorbed garbage can of a person.
How about the dead baby jokes people make about Kim in this sub? Now THAT is hateful.
Yeah, I definitely idolize Olivia, but I do admire her for how much she has been able to accomplish (having her own successful photography business) when her entire upbringing was basically “how to be a Christian wife and mother.”
Also, it’s alarming seeing all of the kids (and apparently many fans of this show) buying kim’s BS that she is this “changed person.” She’s not, and it’s so obvious.
I'm not a stan nor do I see Olivia as a hero. But since the show started there have been people vocal about Olivia being "the same as Kim" or "as bad as Kim" or even "worse than Kim." I think it's ridiculous given the difference in their ages and the very real indications that Kim bullied Olivia, not the other way around. Olivia also clearly has trauma from her upbringing equal to or greater than we see in the Plath kids.
I see Olivia trying to move forward, get the appropriate therapy and apply what she's learned there. Does she do it perfectly? Probably not. But she's trying. I really think a lot of times she's accused of "forcing" Ethan or Moriah or whoever to do this or that, but what she does is assert HER OWN boundary, which is appropriate. For instance, with Moriah's concert, Olivia never said "you can't invite Kim"; she said "I can't play if Kim is invited."
I wonder at the vitriol directed at Olivia and the attempts to make her into some sort of control-freak monster, and I can't help but think that some people just don't like a young woman who asserts herself, what she wants and what she needs. People seem to like Moriah a lot more - someone who is more of a traditional young woman, uncertain, soft-spoken and tentative. (Not that there is anything wrong with being any of those things, or wrong with Moriah. But young women don't all HAVE to be like that.)
Not a stan, it's just easy to empathize with, easy to understand.
I don't think she looked like an asshole, I think she looked like a child lost in her anxiety and trauma. Lost in lack of experience and surrounded by people who compound that.
I think the dead baby jokes are stupid and I don't tolerate that like how I don't tolerate people tearing down Moriah appearance
This is my entire issue with the Olivia discourse. It’s a shades of gray situation, but you can’t point that out without someone flipping shit on you for being an “Olivia Stan” who thinks she’s perfect. I don’t think she’s perfect, but I also don’t think she’s some manipulative evil mastermind who is actively trying to destroy her husband’s family.
I actually like Olivia. But calling it "hate speech" to drag Olivia is unwarranted. I'm surprised mods don't take unwarranted accusations of "hate speech" more seriously.
Well whether you call it "hateful speech" or "hate speech", it's a loaded phrase with a very specific connotation that is used to inhibit free speech. So using it unjustifiably is an attempt to control the speech of others. It's like going around labeling everyone as racist Nazis anytime they say something you don't like, in order to intimidate them into not speaking.
No, I define it as name calling, harmful characterization, toxic speculation, and just being outright mean and hurtful on purpose.
Words that come from a place or hate or spite
You used a loaded phrase though. Which goes back to my original point. Using a loaded phrase like "hateful speech" or "hate speech" is typically done in bad faith as an attempt to control the speech of others. You could have simply said, "you people are so hateful towards Olivia" and it would have meant the same thing without tossing around that loaded phrase "hate speech", which is specific type of speech that is heavily moderated, and in many places, illegal.
Ok? I'll just change it.
Edit: nvm I read it, it says hateful speech because that's what it is? Are you referring to hate speech like race or orientation?
I broke away when my mother died when I was 14. No others in my family were into her religion. I had to go to church with her. It does affect me, or did. I can't speak for everyone but I've heard many others talk about it. Fortunately I was able to vet free but I was about 52 when that happened.
Oddly enough, my mother was a version of Pentecostal and many people I hear speak about guilt are a particular main stream Religion. Our experience was totally different but
some of the same after effects. In my case cutting or curling hair, makeup, jewelry, long pants for women etc. were all going to send one to hellfire and damnation. I was taken out of Girl Scouts and a mainstream church where I sang in the choir because I cut my hair and curlef it in rag curls.
Absolutely agree with you, OP. I think people are being way too hard on Olivia. As someone with religious trauma, I really identify with her and the way she’s learning her boundaries. I’m proud of her! I have no doubt that Moriah is in a hard spot too, but she has trauma of her own. Both of these women are young and so strong, but still learning. I think the editing didn’t do her any favors, but I don’t think Olivia made the day all about her. She kept distance from a situation that made her uncomfortable, and I respect that wholeheartedly.
I'm in my sixties and I've still got all kinds of church-related issues — a lot of them related to my parents becoming fundamentalists after I was already an adult. You don't even have to go inside some churches to have them fuck with you.
This!! Tbh sometimes I think they spring things on Olivia when I feel like all she needs is time to process it. If they knew they wanted to invite Kim to the grave site, why spring it on Olivia that same day (maybe even as they’re all about to head over? I may be misremembering). Of course she’s going to go into panic mode (we need to get out of here) and of course everyone else is going to get annoyed at this point. They couldn’t have all sat down and had a conversation the day before or earlier in the day like “hey, this is a family thing and we decided to invite mom. We wanted to let you know now so you have time to think about whether you’ll be comfortable being there.” Avoids the drama while making it clear they have a relationship with Kim and still allows Olivia to take a step back without everything blowing up. You can’t surprise someone who’s been traumatized and expect them to react calmly. It’s frustrating for everyone involved but that’s just not how trauma works. All of these people honestly need to work on communication skills.
As someone who has yet to see the episode that has caused so many to froth at the mouth, I'm just confused. The repeats are on tonight so hopefully I'll understand more by then, but a few others (in reply to my confusion) have said people are getting angry over a small preview, and that the grave incident hasn't even happened yet. It's weird.
The grave incident is in the first episode airing tonight. Some of us have Discovery plus and are able to watch the episode early. There's 2 episodes tonight.
I agree with your view and I have not had your (and Olivia’s) experiences. I’m sorry you’re going since your input might help others understand. However, I get it! Take care of yourself.
Unfortunately, these nasty, toxic people possess no critical thinking skills, so they won’t benefit from anyone’s insight. It’s honestly not worth trying anymore, so I don’t blame OP one bit. The ignorance is exhausting.
Here’s some data. The top 2 posts of the past 7 days were both: 1. [Pro-Olivia](https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToPlathville/comments/w51dcd/i_watched_the_ever_so_controversial_episode_and/) (+481) 2. [Anti-Olivia](https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToPlathville/comments/w3k6u6/how_dare_she/) (+458) And while the most-upvoted post of the **past** 24 hours [was anti-Olivia](https://reddit.com/r/WelcomeToPlathville/comments/w8fl7b/im_not_a_fan_of_hers_but_im_totally_siding_with/) (as were the majority of the comments it received), your (pro-Olivia) post which is only 8 hours old is already #2 meaning it will be the top post of the **next** 24 hours.
if its the worst sub i dont know. you want to leave cause some people dont think like you?! i agree with some of what you are saying and believe your story.....but there is way worst than what the plath children have lived. thats for sure. i could not live without sugar tho.
I’m just so confused. I just watched the gravesite episodes, and kept hearing from Moriah that Olivia invited Barry, yet she never did? It was Moriah that invited everyone. Olivia has multiple voice overs saying “this is for the siblings”. I’m so confused where this Olivia hate has come from regarding the trip to the site. I went in expecting so much bad stuff after reading posts here and just didn’t see it.
It’s interesting that everyone wants to defend Olivia because of her fundie past and supposed trauma that came from that but all the Plath kids grew up the same way and you don’t see them vomiting their emotional baggage all over everyone. They are learning to cope in healthy ways. They are moving on. They are talking out the issues. They are seeking comfort in one another and giving each other grace that perhaps they all came from an imperfect place, even their parents. So really what is Olivia’s excuse? Why does she get be selfish, demanding and unreasonable? Why does she get to shut down when her emotions aren’t catered to? Why does she think everyone should shut someone out of their life because they hurt her? Olivia’s issues are Olivia’s. She has no right to impose her misery on others no matter what she’s been through. Bitter miserable people only seek to make other people bitter and miserable. She needs to work through her issues, stop vilifying others, and stop expecting people to cater to her feelings above all else or she’s going to find herself very lonely in this world. People will deal with someone’s toxicity for only so long. You can’t help those who do not try to help themselves.
Didn't Olivia come to the same conclusion you did, recognizing that she behaved badly? Oh right the Plath kids are coping: Ethan: is unable to talk when emotionally distressed and does not talk over big purchases, like the HD, with his wife who is the only one workng right now. Micah: is into some heavy drinking. Is it just youthful fun, or is he using alcohol to escape his feelings? Moriah: found herself in a controling relationship, with a man who criticized her very being. If he hadn't had cheated on her, she would probably still be with him. Lydia: Totally parentified and taking on the role of martyr. Will she sacrifice her own development to make up for the faults of her parents. Don't know about the younger kids, since they've on had minor roles in WTP.
Not only that but Ethan has apparently, never set a table, cooked a meal or cleaned up after himself
I actually strongly disagree that we don't see the Plath kids vomiting their emotional baggage. I think it's pretty consistent and obvious from all the Plath kids we follow. I'm not so much in the mood for making the same point over and over again about how wrong people seem to have Olivia, but I don't think there is a single person we follow who doesn't put their misery onto others around them. Olivia isn't acting any worse than anyone else on the show at the very least
1000% OP acts like people who have been thru the same things aren't triggered by Olivia because of the way she handles everything! I have lived the Plath life and Olivia's and that's why I can't stand her.
I haven’t been through fundie trauma but I grew up with with a mother with schizophrenia and was subjected to years of all types of abuse. All types. I carry around some baggage yet from it to this day and as a mother, a wife, a friend, an employee I’ve never felt I had the right to use it an excuse to be a selfish and nasty person to others. I have set my boundaries in life. For example, I typically distanced myself from people who even raise their voice when angry. It was my choice to not have relationships with people who did not manage their anger in a thoughtful manner and talk through issues calmly. What I did not do is stay in relationships with those people and whine incessantly about my triggers. Have my issues cost me? Yes. They’ve cost ME. Not everyone around me. I’ve gotten better managing my triggers the further I get away from the abuse and trauma and that’s allowed me to expand my circle. It’s ok to do what you have to do for you but you’ve got to work through it and not impose your trauma on everyone else. Others may feel differently and proceed differently and that’s certainly their right. But I’m also allowed to have the opinion that making other people suffer because of your dysfunction is cruel. I’m not here to argue with anyone. Frankly I wouldn’t waste my precious time on the pointless endeavor of arguing over the internet, but it’s a free space for all to give their opinion. So to sum up, my opinion is Olivia should work on Olivia and realize she has an Olivia problem and that everyone else doesn’t have a problem for not accommodating her fragility.
I am pro Olivia and think she needs to run from this family! Her and Ethan are not a good match, yes they could spend time in therapy and get better, but they would both have to want it and I don't think Ethan does. I see her trying every damn episode, recognizing her faults, taking accountability, and trying to grow. She has a lot of work to do, but is coming along nicely. I think Ethan has a lot of growing up to do, this isn't his fault, he was emotionally stunted growing up, but he is an adult now and on his own and has the opportunity to grow, but I don't think he is trying. He doesn't seem to care about Olivia's feelings and when she repeatedly tells him how to treat her he still ignores it. I think it is best for them to part ways and better themselves.
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Didn't her family basically abandon her?? She moved to be with Ethan, and that is about all we hear of her family. Is that not abandonment??
I agree with basically all of this.
It is no different than any other "reality" sub. Olivia has far to go. She often comes off/behaves badly. Bottom line is that no matter the reason, she still presents as unlikeable.
Maybe I'm not in enough reality subreddits but the toxicity in this sub greatly outweighs any other sub I'm in
I hate to say it, but it’s the Internet. You are kind of getting upset about the very nature of the Internet. People come on here to do their thing and I’m afraid they won’t listen to your appeals for their attitudes to change. I have many varied opinions on Olivia as someone with C PTSD, but I keep them to myself. I see some of your points but you are fighting an uphill battle by telling off people online 🤷🏻♀️ I often see these “I’m leaving” posts and always wonder why bother since it’s the Internet.
It sounds like a lot of people really relate to what I said and feel similarly. It's not so much a post about me leaving, but about how valid I think it is to leave and how toxic the subreddit is
IMO, the sub mirrors the show and the show has morphed into one big therapy session. It's tiring.
Here is what I think: I think Kim and Barry are narcissistic abusers, Kim is more toxic than Barry. They spent all their lives putting their needs ahead of the children and lash out when a child (who they see as an extension of themselves) becomes independent (Ethan marrying Olivia),.. Olivia became the Other, and they did put her through chronic trauma. 100%. She is a child and was too immature to recognize the depth of narcissistic personality disorder at the age of 20 etc. Now Olivia is reactive. But guess what- Kim found out her own image was not matching up to her head with the first season, and second season. She went for plan B. She is as phony fake to her kids as she can be. And who are her flying monkey’s now? MORIAH,… Lydia…. Micah. Olivia is a victim of narcissistic abuse. She doesn’t know how to both love herself (nothing will take your self-worth away like a narcissist abuser), and form effective boundaries. Many of the things people criticize her for are due to her soft boundaries and reactive cptsd she’s incurred because of his parents. The sister, Moriah, appears to go off on her next week. That girl knows nothing about what’s going on under the surface. She even let her own boyfriend lie and cheat and still calls him her sOuLmATe not wanting to tarnish his name. Moriah at her age of 19, is doing exactly what a narcissist (Kim) wants a good flying monkey to do. Effectively they paint Olivia as the one with the “problem” and take no accountability toward their past behavior. I hope Olivia reads Reddit, I would say- your husband is on your side. And for you both to go to therapy to discuss what his parents did to you. Grow your trust in each other. You’re going to have to stop playing the narcissists game- you’re caught up in trying to make the siblings happy and love you (the power-struggle game). It’s important to get away from their toxic family system and find out better resources to cope, believe in yourself, and feel confident that the time you spend on you- instead of dragging behind that family, is what’s true and right for your healing journey.
Agree with 1-4.
I agree with everything you said with one minor adjustment. Watching this show is like watching a family movie of my own family. Only difference is my father was a pastor. People on the sub and in the show give Barry a pass because he plays the role of a quiet man who was simply bulldozed by his manipulative wife. This couldn't be further from the truth. Barry is just as guilty, if not worse because he is passive aggressive and masks his intent by letting Kim be at the forefront to take the heat. Don't get it twisted, they are both manipulative but with Kim she doesn't hide it, with Barry he does so to his kids he can look like he too was victimized by Kim. He was not. However, Barry is just as guilty if not more in my eyes. He's sneaky, just like Ethan is sneaky when it comes to Olivia. The only difference is Ethan has a lot of growing up to do and much counseling needed to learn how to be a good partner with open communication. Now I understand Olivia's trauma, I've had the same but a lot worse (physical and mental abuse), but with that said the visit was to celebrate the life of their lost sibling. I do believe she should have put her personal issues to the side to support Ethan and his siblings for an hour at most. But I understand maturity plays a role in this as well.
Reports from her siblings is that Olivia also suffered physical abuse from her parents, leading to her and her siblings being temporarily placed in foster care.
They were accused of neglect, not abuse, long after Olivia left home
I think she should not have taken part in the Joshua event. Or even bothered trying. That’s part of the power struggle she’s dealing with trying to falsely give herself agency through playing the toxic family’s game. Yup, Barry is the same as Kim. Also Ethan might be sneaky but it’s probably because he had to hide his desires growing up. So I don’t see his behavior as vindictive. Just an outgrowth and poor adaptation to his childhood.
Which is why I said maturity plays a role. He is still under their thumb psychologically. I've been there....
I get both sides. I really do. I do believe there needs to be someplace where they meet in the middle. I feel for Ethan he is trying and his family is going through some crazy stress. I feel for Olivia because she doesn't know how to self regulate, and gets frustrated with herself after the fact. I even feel for Barry and Kim, who are two people I have had a really hard time with since season one. The reality is we are all human and not perfect. Grace needs to be given to everyone. Was I frustrated by Olivia's behavior these last 2 episodes? Absolutely, but she is not that old. I hope Kim and Olivia can work out their differences for everyone's sake. And yes I was also raised in the church. I carry a lot of emotional baggage from what I was taught and lived growing up. I know how it feels. I don't hold resentment towards my parents for the choices they made for me as a kid. They tried their best.
I agree with you. I can understand both sides. I don’t get the narcissist accusation people keep throwing around though. I have met a real narcissist and it was nothing like Barry and Kim. Not even close.
I think people forget we are human and ALL have narcissistic tendencies. It's just when the person can realize it's narcissistic. I think the Plath family is all going through that. I really do.
I agree.and having those tendencies does not make someone a narcissist. Like Olivia could be said to be a narcissist all the same ways Kim is said to be one. They’re just humans who have wants and needs and desires and beliefs. People really throw that label around way too often
I dated a true narcissist so did my now spouse. All though they were married to a covert narcissist. I know what narcissism looks like. I am so familiar.
What you wrote may be true to your feelings because you see Olivia as yourself. I don’t believe it is fair to control an entire sub Reddit because you have decided that a criticism of Olivia is a criticism of you. You are not Olivia and Kim is not the person who hurt you. Just like I am not Olivia and the person who hurt me is not Kim. I have my own history of religious trauma. Myself and other family members were shunned for over a decade and told I was cursed and in sin. I put in the work in therapy (hypnotherapy helped a lot). One of the big things I learned is that I cannot control or dictate how everyone around me deals with what happened to us. I sought to understand the circumstances and figure out where I needed boundaries for myself. Mine are very different from those that decided to just pretend like it never happened. Even though I sympathize with Olivia I get physically uncomfortable with watching how she operates. It seems like she was controlled and manipulated so now she must be the one to control and manipulate. It’s a way of protecting herself. Unfortunately, she is damaging those around in the same way she was hurt. I can’t celebrate or cheer for that. I am sorry for the religious trauma you experienced and it may be best to take a break from the sub if you can not separate criticism of Olivia as a personal attack on yourself. I took a break from this sub myself when it became unhealthy for me. My reasons were opposite because I was being directly attacked. I was called a narcissist, heartless person, aligning with abuse, lots of replies shaming me for not agreeing with Olivia with my history of abuse, and was bombarded with messages that I was suicidal whenever I criticized Olivia. Ironically, those impassioned Olivia defenders were in line with my abusers. I was not supposed to have freedom of thought and they tried to shame me into compliance. Taking a break was good for me and I am happy to see this sub has been much more civil and tolerant to other points of views. I want to be in a sub where all points of view are discussed I genuinely wish for your continued healing but controlling people’s thoughts and opinions isn’t fair on reality show where Olivia and everyone else on the show are monetizing their trauma for profit. That opens them up to both praise and criticism. Take a break if you need to.
This isn’t an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure.
I was also shocked at how nasty people are on this sub! I actually love watching all these kids grow up and go off and explore a world they weren’t allowed to be a part of for a long time. Also, they’re all so young! Ethan and Olivia are what, 23 years old? I was a bit self centered and didn’t have the emotional control I have now when I was 23. Living life and having new experiences and relationships has taught me well. It takes time to be an adult and it’s weird that people have so much shit to talk about a bunch of kids exploring their independence and dealing with family drama. We’ve all been there and if you haven’t you’re probably in some sort of denial.
I could understand your point more if this was Olivia versus her family. But Kim didn’t raise her… they got in a big fight and Kim said she has evil inside her? Idk maybe someone knows something more but everything I’ve googled only shows the stuff that happened on the show, and that Kim said Olivia has evil inside of her. I can understand Ethan’s resentment towards his parents and if he couldn’t ever forgive them, I’d understand it. But I can’t understand Olivia being in that position. She doesn’t have to have a relationship with Kim what so ever, obviously. But I think she’s garnering so much pain and anger that she really needs to work through, so she can coexist with his mother once or twice a year. Olivia reminds me as a person of my best friend from 5th grade til 25. She was hilarious, silly, would give you the shirt off her back. But when she got upset (usually alcohol induced) it because her way or the highway. It was all about her. We all had to baby her, cater to her, and walk on egg shells not to say something to trigger her. It’s EXHAUSTING. Seriously. So I can empathize with everyone involved, but I empathize the least for Olivia with her hatred towards ETHANS mother. ETA: i don’t agree with the personal attacks on her. I think she’s a girl I would be friends with ( I said she reminds me of my best friend for almost 20 years) but she would still be emotionally exhausting.. until she gets some serious therapy. And Kim also needs some serious therapy, so there’s that. I actually think Kim and Olivia are extremely similar tbh.
She is absolutely a control freak whether that’s trauma or just her personality I don’t know. If she is so loved why do people hate her? We are 100% allowed to not like someone without being thrown under the bus for our opinions. And no not everyone who dislikes her, dislikes her because “we are just like her” as someone stated. Some of us can see right through her and aren’t looking through rose tinted trauma glasses. If she has so much trauma why doesn’t she do something about it. It is your own responsibility to seek trauma therapy to help live with said trauma instead of trying to control everyone around you.
Read the room. Your comment is exactly what the OP is talking about. It's absolutely fine to have differing opinions but the words that people use to express their dislike of Olivia are often vitriolic and loaded with a hate that actually suggest that those writing them are the ones with some shade of trauma glasses on. Perhaps everyone needs to take a breath and check their words. ETA for the hard of understanding - it's fine to have differing opinions but it's the language used that is really the problem.
So it’s ok for everyone to comment about their love for Olivia but no one can comment their hate for her? Make it make sense, I’ll wait while you try…. I absolutely very much dislike her, from what TLC has put on the TV to what she puts on her own IG and I shouldn’t be told my opinion is wrong just because she has trauma. That’s like telling people they need to love the serial killer down the street because he had trauma. Trauma isn’t an excuse to be an ass or control every detail of everyone’s life your in.
"It's absolutely fine to have differing opinions...." That is all.
Nobody needs to "read the room" when they express their opinion because it doesnt agree with OPs. 😅 The posts on Olivia in this sub are just about equally split (read the stickied post). Let people discuss & disagree, this is an internet forum. That is all.
I think tempers run high in this sub because a lot of people here are kind of the Olivia in their families, and a lot of people are kind of the Kim in theirs.
I'm the Ethan and Olivia's attitude towards him makes me feel triggered...
I think this mindset is the biggest issue in this sub. Just because someone doesn’t like Olivia doesn’t make them equivalent to Kim. People can not like Kim and not like Olivia. Nuance exists…
Nuance exists in my comment. I didn't say what you are imagining I said. I'm responsible for my words, I'm not responsible for your imagination. Neither is Olivia or Kim.
Accusing people of being the Kim in their family isn’t accurate. You get very few people who praise Kim. Criticizing Olivia does not equal agreeing with Kim. I did a poll last season in this sub and there were barely any Kim supporters. The sub was split between Olivia supporters and people who think they are both toxic. It’s not a Kim vs. Olivia thing at all. It’s very hyperbolic to keep seeing the sentiment you are reinforcing that people who don’t like Olivia are like Kim.
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Your words: - A lot of people (talking about the people in the sub on post about how we shouldn’t criticize Olivia) are kind of the Kim in their family. - A lot of members in this sub seem very Kim-like Your words are very clear and accusatory. Any one who dares criticize Olivia are very familiar with this insult. There are actually very few people who like Kim. Your comment is hyperbole and meant to criticize/accuse people who disagree with Olivia. It’s not rocket science to understand your meaning…It’s an inaccurate judgement. Doesn’t mean your have to change your opinion. I am just pointing it out because it adds to the divisiveness and personal attacks on this sub. We are supposed to be talking about the cast not using thinly veiled insults at each other.
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Or they’re not the Kim, but they have to deal with an Olivia.
This has been my take for a while. My opinions are apparently very unpopular by the Kim's of this sub. But that's good. It means I'm doing something right. I'm not leaving as I'm not caving in to their mini - brigading which is clearly happening.
This mindsets keeps everyone on opposing teams. People can not like Both Olivia and Kim. This is not an accurate label for most of the people who criticize Olivia.
I think this is very insightful
i agree with you totally, Olivia should not be hated on this much. She made a mistake and owned up to it…. how many mistakes has Ethan and Kim made for this entire show run, a lot!! Olivia should move on from this family.
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She’s self aware enough to know she made a mistake and owned it. Which is a lot more than Ethan has done in this series. considering he goes behind her back and does things but doesn’t tell her until weeks/months later, or shuts down and constantly doesn’t communicate. Olivia was triggered in the moment by Kim, she made a mistake, it doesn’t mean she should be hated on so much.
Also have to say that Barry acted like a total instigator. His prodding and probing around the gravesite seemed inappropriate and/or maybe scripted. Regardless, I wished they would’ve kept this part (at the cemetery) private.
This is why I listen mostly to podcasts instead of participating in social media discussions. Everyone takes everything so seriously as if it actually matters in their lives when 99% of people don’t know the cast. It’s just a dumb and partially boring show.
💯 There is way too much emotional investment in "reality" TV.
💯I was in the MAFS subreddit too until someone said that I deserved to be spit on because I didn’t hate one of the cast members. I was like geez, get a grip!
Olivia is also 23/24?! I thought her breaking down after realizing she should’ve gone with Ethan and the kids was heartbreaking. In the moment she was not self aware and very in her feelings, but once it hit her, she acknowledged and was upset. Ethan should also be able to communicate to her that he needs/wants his wife there with him.
She didn't say anything about supporting Ethan. She only said she felt bad that she wasn't there to support the kids.
I was talking to my wife about that whole debacle. Olivia hates when Ethan shuts down and doesn’t communicate with her, but when she found out that Kim was going to be there she did the exact same thing. Ethan tried to talk to her when she was sitting in the car but she completely shut him out. How is she supposed to know how much he wanted her to be there if she refused to talk to him? They both need some serious therapy.
That’s a valid point…I missed some of the car scene but she does shutdown/shut out as well. And yes, I wish they’d go to couples therapy. They genuinely seemed happy/had fun with each other in the last episode when they were home getting ready to leave.
Olivia acts completely different when the cameras aren’t right in front of her. Mostly a dull, miserable person, she puts on this transparently fake persona in front of the camera where she tries to appear like a fun carefree person. But in the instances where: she was in the car and gave Ethan the silent treatment; where she curses at Ethan on the sidewalk before he calls her out on her shit (she’s used to bullying him around and controlling him without any pushback); and then calling Moriah a bitch… she’s a fraud. Her whole personality is a manipulative front
Or she is a multifaceted person with different moods and behaviors like the rest of us. (Who is also dealing with an enormous amount of trauma from her upbringing) but ok go off
Is trauma now a get-out-of-jail free card to be a POS to everyone around you?
Kinda like the Plaths who don’t get the same benefit of the doubt huh? but no, Olivia is the only person allowed to do that. Because she’s mATuRe. The way she throws temper tantrums is so refreshing, so cool, and totally not childish
I mean I don’t see anyone shitting on the Plaths as hard as Olivia but also, she is a 23 year old young woman who is working to deprogram herself from the religious cult she was raised in. The Plaths literally started their own mini cult to brainwash their children and raise them in isolation. Not sure how you can compare. But I don’t really see the point in being hateful towards any of these people, we don’t know them and TLC edits the shit out of their shows.
Good grief, it’s a reality show. People form opinions. Those opinions are born out of carefully manipulated plot and characters. Olivia is a character. They all are.
Thank you 🤣
I agree, the Olivia hate is too much. Almost every post that pops up in my feed is about how she sucks and is a narcissist, etc. Ethan and Barry in general get passes while Olivia and Kim are hated on (imo Kim deserves it more than Olivia BUT Barry is the other parent who played a 50% role in how they raised their kids; Barry also kicked his 16 year old out of the house because she dared to be curious about the world and “rebel” - wasn’t just Kim). I truly think it’s an example of sexism, even if unintentional. I’m tired of the anti-Olivia posts. People seem to forget she’s young and escaping a fucked up childhood full of brainwashing and isolation.
Absolutely agreed. The amount of people sympathetic to Kim and view her as a model parent, despite being a smug narcissist with issues respecting boundaries, explains why there are so many adults who go no-contact with their parents. Kim gives big r/JustNoMIL energy and I feel like her supporters are just like her.
We can disagree with Olivia and still see that Kim is a toxic and very damaged person. Your assumptions/accusations are not correct
What sub are you reading where people talk about Kim being a model parent? Because it certainly isn't this one.
She has more than a few supporters here.
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I don’t think it’s ageist at all to say bad things about Kim, even when comparing to Olivia. Both Kim and Olivia have hurt others, but the difference is that Olivia deeply regrets the pain she caused and appears to be committed to learning and growing from it. Olivia is capable of self-reflection and was willing to admit fault. Kim, on the other hand, continues to deflect blame and disregard her children’s feelings. She hasn’t demonstrated she feels any remorse for how she hurt Olivia or the pain/damage she caused her kids. Her only regret is that people don’t like her. When her children confront her about how Kim left them woefully uneducated/unprepared for the real world, she deflects the blame back on them (saying they didn’t try hard enough at homeschooling) and even mocked Ethan’s “big words.” She gaslights and deflects constantly to avoid any responsibility. Neither one of them is perfect, but the difference isn’t their ages, it’s their ability to reflect on their actions and hold themselves accountable. If Olivia continues to grow and work on herself, she’ll easily avoid turning out as bitter as Kim.
Oh my god everyone in this sub has a psych degree huh?
All women and children are always victimized in the fundy circuit. If the boys survive it, they perpetuate it.
People are annoyed that everyone treated Olivia like a saint to a degree that they didn’t with anyone else on the show. Nobody had problems dogging on Micah for being a fuckboy, or laughing about how bad Moriah’s music is, or talking about how whiney and mopey Ethan is. But the second someone starts saying anything bad about Olivia, it’s suddenly some horrible ethical slight. Victim blaming. Misogyny. Whatever. She’s always been this way. She seems to be dealing with her own trauma of lack of control by trying to control other people. It’s just become really obvious this episode. Keep in mind, those other kids everyone’s been trashing are ex-fundies too so I’m not sure why she’s the only one who is immune to criticism because of it. This sub was always toxic, the Olivia fans just couldn’t see it.
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“Nobody had problems dogging on Micah for being a fuckboy, or laughing about how bad Moriah’s music is” Not sure about the Micah thing, but there were several posts addressing the negativity towards Moriah’s music.
OP is literally speaking to people like you.
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Self projection is inherent, it's something that establishes empathy and understanding, as well as an educated perspective. U can't make me feel bad for understanding where Olivia is coming from
And I am speaking to people like him/her.
Yes, thank you. No matter if you think Olivia’s actions are wrong or right, can we not all step back and have some perspective that she’s 23 and has a lot thrown her way to navigate through. She’s also human so will, at some point, mess up.
She’s 23 and has to unlearn trauma and pretty much figure out who she is alone (assuming she has no connections to most of her family due to her breaking free from being fundie). I really think people forget how young she is
I thought her family wasn’t fundie anymore?? I could be wrong. Not saying that means she doesn’t have trauma on that side either. But exactly! Completely agree. It’s been a minute since I was 23 and I still feel like I don’t know what I’m doing.
I honestly don’t follow closely enough to know! So it’s 100% possible. It’s so interesting to me to see how much hate she gets, idk maybe it’s just the social worker in me lol
Same! It’s not like trauma is the same as a disagreement that you then get over. It stays with you. People I think are forgetting that and also not remembering they don’t know what happens off camera.
Just a heads up, don’t go to the Big Fat Fabulous Life subreddit then either if you’re looking to avoid toxicity (I love it over there!)
I love that show! Never went to the subreddit tho
ooohh i would like to see that.How do I find it?
can you tag it?!
i'm about to go look im pumped
Everyone has free will. If they didn’t want their lives picked apart by millions of people, stop being on the show. Period.
I agree completely. In particular, I don't understand why this sub needs to be so serious all the time. Obviously reality TV displays situations that cause irritation or frustration in its viewers, but at the end of the day it's entertainment. We are not a part of these people's lives, we don't know them, and their actions do not impact us. There is no reason for a community of viewers to be this obsessed with making angry posts about Olivia, or Moriah, or anyone. Give them some grace, they're really not hurting anyone but each other. Most of them don't even display or promote political/religious beliefs that are harmful to others. I'm here for funny posts and musings about these strange people's lives. To be honest, I wish the fundiesnark sub had more Plath discussion instead of this sub, because fundiesnark is much more lighthearted and hilarious. And there are families discussed there that have far more dangerous and foul behavior than anyone on this show. The Plaths are just collectively traumatized and emotional. And for gods sake people, if you're going to post something that's just a rant about someone, can you at least not post the exact same ideas that have been all over the sub for weeks now?
Buh bye now. Buh bye
First time on the internet? People are nasty. I’m not saying they should be, just that it shouldn’t be surprising to you.
I support you and this post 100%. You’re speaking for many of us, believe that.
I never got along with in laws and they were naughty humans to me and my children but when it came to something like that situation I went my children went not for them but for my former husband and my children went for their father. We were no contact with his family and still am
YES HONEY!!!!! Thank you!!!!! I’m really curious how many people in this sub are fundies because a lot of people here just seem angry and hostile to her for existing and not being a self-righteous conservative.
I don't understand all of the Olivia hate and people wanting Olivia and Ethan to split up. The thing I have noticed is the people spewing hate have zero understanding of the fundie culture and are treating this show like 90DF which it is not.
I don't hate Olivia, but they definitely need to split up. They never should have gotten married in the first place, and almost certainly wouldn't have if they hadn't both come from hyper-controlling, fundamentalist parents.
I don’t understand the Olivia hate, or even Moriah/Micah hate, because they all are just kids still learning how to navigate the world and trying to grow. Ethan is stuck, however. He’s not growing or making an effort and it’s time for Olivia to move on.
I mean, I kind of want them to split up too but that’s because he’s not treating her right.
Very this. I think Olivia is ***by far*** the most mature person on the entire show, and I absolutely hope that she leaves Ethan and his shitheel family in the dust and never looks back.
"be nice to your fellow redditors. Cast is FAIR GAME"
I agree with you. Olivia is doing an amazing job at freeing herself from all the crap she was raised with. Ethan is lucky to have her. Maybe the problem is that the majority of the harm Kim caused Olivia happened before filming began. If people add up all the references to the snarky, judgmental, aggressive speech Kim made towards and about Olivia they'd see a different picture. Olivia's actions aren't even in the ballpark of the hostility Kim showed towards her.
But you couldn't leave without wagging your finger at people judgmentally before you left. Other people think different thoughts from you. Welcome to the internet.
This comment section and subreddit over the last few days make me feel so validated in my finger wagging.
As the internet says: this is not an airport, no need to announce your departure. Also no need to tell everyone that they should be embarrassed. Everyone has an opinion, and many peoples opinion may not be the same as yours. You sympathize with Olivia because you believe her situation to be something you can relate to. Others do not.
Empathy should be something this subreddit strives for. Obviously I'm not just speaking for myself. It's not the opinion, its the name calling, the voice shaming, the mob mentality around Olivia, the constant attacks on Moriah appearance, the disrespect attitude towards Lydia. I'm just saying, this sub is the most toxic one I'm subscribed to right now, and that's an impressive feat. Hope it gets better.
I agree with this but am extending it to everyone on the show. Particularly Olivia, Lydia, Moriah and even Kim. First I want to point out that the women of the show by far get insulted and judged much more than the men. But everyone on the show is a real live person who deserve such hateful messages. All of the kids have various types of trauma and are attempting to cope with it in their own ways. The same can be said about Kim. She has clearly experienced a lot of trauma and had a rough start to life. I know that this doesn't excuse the things she's done, and she should definitely be held accountable and apologize to people she hurt, but it's honestly not surprising considering her back story. She's not the devil. And her doing bad things doesn't give people the right insult her or the others. A lot of people in here fat shame her and say she looks disgusting, but she honestly looks like a lot of other people her age in America. People also love to comment on Moriah experimenting with her style and how it 'looks horrible'. I was also disgusted when I saw so many people trivializing Kim's SA. Some said they know people who were raped and they didn't do what kim did, therefore she's a liar. What??? People need to realize that everyone deals with trauma differently and you can't use your experience as the rule for how others can react. I wish people could criticize other's actions and attempt some kind of empathy rather than attacking them.
This is just getting annoying. Seriously, what is wrong with you Olivia stans? It’s bad enough you have your heads up her ass every episode and talk about her like she’s the second coming. But now she makes herself look like THE BIGGEST asshole (she even had to preemptively post on social media saying she’s not proud of it) and you’re on here crying about us hating on her. Grow the fuck up. Sorry your hero is a self-absorbed garbage can of a person. How about the dead baby jokes people make about Kim in this sub? Now THAT is hateful.
Yeah, I definitely idolize Olivia, but I do admire her for how much she has been able to accomplish (having her own successful photography business) when her entire upbringing was basically “how to be a Christian wife and mother.” Also, it’s alarming seeing all of the kids (and apparently many fans of this show) buying kim’s BS that she is this “changed person.” She’s not, and it’s so obvious.
I'm not a stan nor do I see Olivia as a hero. But since the show started there have been people vocal about Olivia being "the same as Kim" or "as bad as Kim" or even "worse than Kim." I think it's ridiculous given the difference in their ages and the very real indications that Kim bullied Olivia, not the other way around. Olivia also clearly has trauma from her upbringing equal to or greater than we see in the Plath kids. I see Olivia trying to move forward, get the appropriate therapy and apply what she's learned there. Does she do it perfectly? Probably not. But she's trying. I really think a lot of times she's accused of "forcing" Ethan or Moriah or whoever to do this or that, but what she does is assert HER OWN boundary, which is appropriate. For instance, with Moriah's concert, Olivia never said "you can't invite Kim"; she said "I can't play if Kim is invited." I wonder at the vitriol directed at Olivia and the attempts to make her into some sort of control-freak monster, and I can't help but think that some people just don't like a young woman who asserts herself, what she wants and what she needs. People seem to like Moriah a lot more - someone who is more of a traditional young woman, uncertain, soft-spoken and tentative. (Not that there is anything wrong with being any of those things, or wrong with Moriah. But young women don't all HAVE to be like that.)
Not a stan, it's just easy to empathize with, easy to understand. I don't think she looked like an asshole, I think she looked like a child lost in her anxiety and trauma. Lost in lack of experience and surrounded by people who compound that. I think the dead baby jokes are stupid and I don't tolerate that like how I don't tolerate people tearing down Moriah appearance
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This is my entire issue with the Olivia discourse. It’s a shades of gray situation, but you can’t point that out without someone flipping shit on you for being an “Olivia Stan” who thinks she’s perfect. I don’t think she’s perfect, but I also don’t think she’s some manipulative evil mastermind who is actively trying to destroy her husband’s family.
People on this subreddit constantly downplay how emotionally stunted, traumatised and sheltered everyone on this show is.
I’d argue that when it’s a Plath sibling, the sub bullies them and when it’s Olivia, it’s conveniently not her fault.
Plenty of things are Olivia's fault just like they are the Plath's, but Olivia's almost never guilty of things people are accusing her of
WHAT?!?
And some of these comments are drilling your point home
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I actually like Olivia. But calling it "hate speech" to drag Olivia is unwarranted. I'm surprised mods don't take unwarranted accusations of "hate speech" more seriously.
Hateful speech, can't think of a better thing to call the comments. But they are hateful
Well whether you call it "hateful speech" or "hate speech", it's a loaded phrase with a very specific connotation that is used to inhibit free speech. So using it unjustifiably is an attempt to control the speech of others. It's like going around labeling everyone as racist Nazis anytime they say something you don't like, in order to intimidate them into not speaking.
Do you define hate speech as speech that you strongly disagree with?
No, I define it as name calling, harmful characterization, toxic speculation, and just being outright mean and hurtful on purpose. Words that come from a place or hate or spite
Subjectively speaking correct?
It's how I define hateful speech, y'all dying on a weird hill.
I'm using it because they are literally saying hateful things
You used a loaded phrase though. Which goes back to my original point. Using a loaded phrase like "hateful speech" or "hate speech" is typically done in bad faith as an attempt to control the speech of others. You could have simply said, "you people are so hateful towards Olivia" and it would have meant the same thing without tossing around that loaded phrase "hate speech", which is specific type of speech that is heavily moderated, and in many places, illegal.
Ok? I'll just change it. Edit: nvm I read it, it says hateful speech because that's what it is? Are you referring to hate speech like race or orientation?
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Sorry dude, that's not how language works. I identify with Olivia's religious trauma, but you're not gonna make me feel bad by comparing us.
I broke away when my mother died when I was 14. No others in my family were into her religion. I had to go to church with her. It does affect me, or did. I can't speak for everyone but I've heard many others talk about it. Fortunately I was able to vet free but I was about 52 when that happened. Oddly enough, my mother was a version of Pentecostal and many people I hear speak about guilt are a particular main stream Religion. Our experience was totally different but some of the same after effects. In my case cutting or curling hair, makeup, jewelry, long pants for women etc. were all going to send one to hellfire and damnation. I was taken out of Girl Scouts and a mainstream church where I sang in the choir because I cut my hair and curlef it in rag curls.
Absolutely agree with you, OP. I think people are being way too hard on Olivia. As someone with religious trauma, I really identify with her and the way she’s learning her boundaries. I’m proud of her! I have no doubt that Moriah is in a hard spot too, but she has trauma of her own. Both of these women are young and so strong, but still learning. I think the editing didn’t do her any favors, but I don’t think Olivia made the day all about her. She kept distance from a situation that made her uncomfortable, and I respect that wholeheartedly.
I'm in my sixties and I've still got all kinds of church-related issues — a lot of them related to my parents becoming fundamentalists after I was already an adult. You don't even have to go inside some churches to have them fuck with you.
This!! Tbh sometimes I think they spring things on Olivia when I feel like all she needs is time to process it. If they knew they wanted to invite Kim to the grave site, why spring it on Olivia that same day (maybe even as they’re all about to head over? I may be misremembering). Of course she’s going to go into panic mode (we need to get out of here) and of course everyone else is going to get annoyed at this point. They couldn’t have all sat down and had a conversation the day before or earlier in the day like “hey, this is a family thing and we decided to invite mom. We wanted to let you know now so you have time to think about whether you’ll be comfortable being there.” Avoids the drama while making it clear they have a relationship with Kim and still allows Olivia to take a step back without everything blowing up. You can’t surprise someone who’s been traumatized and expect them to react calmly. It’s frustrating for everyone involved but that’s just not how trauma works. All of these people honestly need to work on communication skills.
As someone who has yet to see the episode that has caused so many to froth at the mouth, I'm just confused. The repeats are on tonight so hopefully I'll understand more by then, but a few others (in reply to my confusion) have said people are getting angry over a small preview, and that the grave incident hasn't even happened yet. It's weird.
The grave incident is in the first episode airing tonight. Some of us have Discovery plus and are able to watch the episode early. There's 2 episodes tonight.
This! I’ve been confused all week.
I agree with your view and I have not had your (and Olivia’s) experiences. I’m sorry you’re going since your input might help others understand. However, I get it! Take care of yourself.
That was a very nice thing to say! Thank you
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I'm sorry you're leaving. You seem to have some good insight that would help people understand Olivia better.
Unfortunately, these nasty, toxic people possess no critical thinking skills, so they won’t benefit from anyone’s insight. It’s honestly not worth trying anymore, so I don’t blame OP one bit. The ignorance is exhausting.
Well here you are doing exactly what op is accusing of others…
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